The Big Choke Tube Lie - Can Shotgun Patterns Be Too Tight?

Рет қаралды 52,019

Күн бұрын

Hunters are spending lots of cash pursuing unrealistic shotgun pattern density to the point where they are becoming less effective. There is a lie being spread by shotgun manufacturers, choke tube marketers, and ammunition companies that denser tighter patterns are always best for duck hunting, goose hunting, pheasants, doves, crows, and anything that flies. The waterfowl hunting community may be hit hardest. The truth is that pattern density is critical to a point, but you can have too much of a good thing. Your shot pattern can be too tight, so much so that it causes you to miss or do excessive damage to your game when hunting close or mid-range.
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A good choke tube can be critical to getting a good pattern. There are many good companies out there like Carlson's Chokes, Muller Chokes, Briley Chokes, Kicks, Jebs, Patternmaster, Benelli and more, and all could be good for you. But you must understand what an ideal pattern at your most likely hunting range is going to be. Over choking your shotgun will hurt you. Often a modified choke is better than a full, but you have to pattern test your gear BEFORE you hunt and make sure you don't have too little or too much choke for your ideal range. One choke may be better for you for BOSS Bismuth than Kent Bismuth, but tighter does not always mean better!
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Пікірлер: 263

@williamfindlay1754 Жыл бұрын

Thanks for putting this up. Too many people forget that ducks, pheasants aren't a target, their food. Totally agree you want as open a pattern as possible for the range you normally shoot at. Enough so you don't have holes in the pattern that would wound or give a miss.

@outdoorswithroostercurrie6984 Жыл бұрын

Love this video. Nothing but Truth. And you can definitely tell that you’re not being sponsored by a Big Name Company. Keep up the great work.

@TheNewHuntersGuide Жыл бұрын

Thanks so much! I wouldn't mind being sponsored by a big name company lol, but I my whole philosophy is to get people real info about what really happens and works.

@ZEEKUPP 5 ай бұрын

For close quail work I like to use cylinder or skeet.

@DrDuckMD 11 ай бұрын

More guys need to get onto the Light Modified choke trend. It’s a game changer. Best all around choke for wing shooting.

@TheNewHuntersGuide 11 ай бұрын

Much of the time yes, too bad people don't like to watch KZfaq videos about normal patterns at normal ranges, lol. Its only the extremes that get attention.

@mechredd 11 ай бұрын

I've used a modified choke for nearly everything since I've started hunting. Recently I've started using an improved cylinder because I primarily hunt upland birds, and have been practicing more and getting faster on the draw.

@TheNewHuntersGuide 11 ай бұрын

And with a lot of modern ammo, you have to go as open as you can to be effective at close range.

@xwld2971 Жыл бұрын

I really like the content! Keep up the good videos.

@TheNewHuntersGuide Жыл бұрын

Thank you so much!

@davidbilbrough3726 Жыл бұрын

Nice one! When we were forced to use non toxic shot; we patterned the old lead loads to get the width of the shot spread when decoying and flighting . Then we chose the chokes that gave the same width with steel. Consequently we were back to shooting the same amount: the only difference is that we use a larger size for the third shot; to take birds climbing away; as their backs are extremely hard--back to getting those triples! BUT, I miss all your great shooting . See you again soon with great shows?

@TheNewHuntersGuide Жыл бұрын

Thanks so much! And good idea with bigger shot in the #3 spot. Next week should be another test video.

@danorris5235 6 ай бұрын

Came here through the turkey algorithm. The whole time I was sitting here fuming mad until it dawned on me this isn't a turkey hunting video. Regardless, this is still helpful because my wife is duck crazy. Good video.

@TheNewHuntersGuide 6 ай бұрын

Thanks! Yes, this is a wing shooting video for sure. Wasn't trying to comment on turkey hunting here at all.

@danorris5235 6 ай бұрын

@@TheNewHuntersGuide The algorithm doesn't think, and auto play is a dangerous thing. In this case it definitely worked out in my favor, though.

@TheNewHuntersGuide 6 ай бұрын

Thanks!@@danorris5235

@MichaelPirowski-nj3vf 2 ай бұрын

Love to see a vid testing the Boss 1 3/4 oz. 3” 3/5 shot Warchief. Excellent work on all of your videos!

@TheNewHuntersGuide 2 ай бұрын

Thanks, are those out yet?

@gregfalde7250 Ай бұрын

Real good commentary. If your really serious about getting the best performance from your gun it needs to be setup for what your hunting. Like you said my turkey gun would be pretty useless in the duck blind. Really enjoying your channel.

@TheNewHuntersGuide Ай бұрын

Thank you so much!

@michaellacy8510 Жыл бұрын

I agree with you. Back when all shotguns carried fixed chokes almost everyone I knew had full choke guns. We would regularly blow-up birds shot at less than 30 yards. This was especially true for new hunters on pen-reared pheasants. When we switched to guns with choke tubes many of us (but not all) went to more open chokes. We found that not only did we have more edible meat, but we hit more birds. For the vast majority of my shooting now I use IC or Mod in my 870, and skeet and modified in my O/U. I honestly haven't used full choke in decades. If I had to have one choke I'd likely go with IC. Also, you would think we could figure out that aftermarket tubes called something like "Ultimate serial killer desecrator" is bullshit. If you want aftermarket tubes, and some are IMO very good, I'd stick with the less aggressive makers like Briley (my favorite). If you can't figure out the constriction before buying it and measuring yourself, I'd pass.

@TheNewHuntersGuide Жыл бұрын

Thanks. Yea. I hate all this hidden constriction stuff. It shouldn't be that hard!

@jimrennie9497 Жыл бұрын

Thanks for spreading the truth. A tight choke is useless at typical duck decoying shot distances of 20 to 30 yards. You either miss the duck completely with a small pellet spread, or hit it so bad that there is no edible meat left. I use an IC tube (.012 restriction) for the 1st barrel in my O/U gun and a loose MOD choke (.018 restriction ) in the 2nd barrel. Pattern testing shows this is just right for 25 to 35 yards.

@TheNewHuntersGuide Жыл бұрын

Thanks so much! Patterning means everything really.

@kross1261 Жыл бұрын

Spot on. Many of the guys I hunt with that struggle I suggest they put in improved cylinder. And from what I’ve experienced the after market chokes are a waste of $ except for Turkey. At least in my Benelli with their crio choke system. If I want a super tight pattern I use the II notch or improved modified for steel. But I only do it for late season honkers when I’m feeling confident in my shooting. Now I recently bought some new bismuth and tungsten loads so I’ll need to see what they like and from what I’m reading the improved modified might be a good start.

@TheNewHuntersGuide Жыл бұрын

Thanks so much! Alot of quality guns come with chokes that are hard to improve upon these days. Benelli is chief among them.

@williamhall7349 Ай бұрын

When I was bird hunting 15 to 25 yards because in Virginia most times birds flew to the woods or in cutovers it was snap shots over pointing dogs

@ssevikeroutdoors7706 6 ай бұрын

I really like your videos keep them coming. I totally agree with you. I usually go wood pigeon and duck hunting. My friends argue with me that I often use modified choke, they say I should use full. I say there are over 200 no 5 pellets in 32 gr . Let them spread enough to kill but not turn in to mincemeat. I usually bring down more birds than them. Partridge hunt & duck jump shooting IC works best for me. I started to use side by side depending on the hunt I use IC &M or M&IM those all factory chokes. It works for me really well.

@TheNewHuntersGuide 6 ай бұрын

Thank you so much!

@zachprim3851 Жыл бұрын

Great work! Have you done any comparisons with the Carlson's competition chokes?

@TheNewHuntersGuide Жыл бұрын

Thanks! I think they only come in gold, which I would never use for hunting for obvious reasons. Not sure if/how they are different. I did a little search and didn't see them in any huntable colors.

@JamesWillmus Жыл бұрын

One thing you didn't mention here is shot string. Simply patterning a shotgun only gives two dimensions. Shot travels in a "cloud" and the length is often bigger than the width. That means on a target pellets are hitting at different times and on a bird flying through that cloud most pellets will miss even in a "dense" pattern. The ideal pattern would be a perfect sphere that grows linearly with distance and every pellet travels in the same direction and speed. That's simply not possible, but the closer we can get to that ideal cloud the better our shots will be. Also, reducing payload can give better patterns.

@TheNewHuntersGuide Жыл бұрын

I dunno, the best research done in the industry has shown shot string to be inconsequential for the average hunter. The biggest proponents of shotstring have no research, only theory and me-search. Joel recently did what I think is the best video ever made on the subject kzfaq.info/get/bejne/qJN9e8ahss20o5s.html

@JamesWillmus Жыл бұрын

@@TheNewHuntersGuide I mean, a slow motion camera can clearly show that shot travels in a 3 dimensional cloud, so I'm not sure what about that is theoretical. A bird has to fly through that cloud in order for a lethal hit to occur. Patterning is helpful because it's the only cheap and simple way to see what's going on downrange.

@TheNewHuntersGuide Жыл бұрын

@@JamesWillmus I agree with you, but the new data shows that at the speed that cloud moves, the shot string makes no functional difference in hunting. It all happens so fast, that a short or long shot string doesn't matter enough to make a significant difference even for passing birds. Watch the Surviving Ducks Season videos on the subject. It's pretty conclusive.

@Windwalker_Outdoors Жыл бұрын

@@JamesWillmus So when the first pellet of a shot string strikes the target and that last pellet of that same shot string strikes a target it won't matter. Even if the shot string was 10 feet long.....the pellets are traveling so fast that even a moving target only travels mere inches from the time the first pellet hits til the last pellet hits. Because a shotgun shell has multiple projectiles, in say a 40 inch pattern. So there is no way to compensate for the 10 foot shotstring, being that the pattern might be 40 inches wide anyway.

@tughill4895 Жыл бұрын

shot string definitelly matters a lot and matters most on long range,thats why 10ga cant be beat ,you can shoot same load with a 12ga but it isnt going to be taking them down like 10ga . 20ga can shoot more shot but it can never beat 16ga in upland or anykind of wing shooting ,except maybe on still targets

@jannekoivumaki4890 Жыл бұрын

True. Trying to tell this same to my friends but they only belive the name of the tight pattern. Shotgun is still close range gun and tight pattern means lot of missed shots. I use only improved cylinder.

@TheNewHuntersGuide Жыл бұрын

One of the biggest challenges for shotgun hunting I think is judging distance. If you know the distance you will shoot birds, you can choke perfectly for it. But this trend of only choking for the longest possible distance is unrealistic for most hunters. Unless you really do take mostly long shots.

@Ldavis2033 Жыл бұрын

Thank you! Finally someone said it!

@TheNewHuntersGuide Жыл бұрын

Haha, thanks so much Ben!

@saltcreekammo Жыл бұрын

Most people don't understand that the wad is way more of a factor to pattern than the choke tube. Handloaders know this... I've found a new spot that has birds very close. Inside 25 yards. I'm missing birds left and right with my loads and gun set up I have for my normal spot which is for pass shooting... I'm having to do a paradigm shift with my set up to be more successful.

@TheNewHuntersGuide Жыл бұрын

Definitely, some shells are set up to have to have tighter patterns for long range shooting. But they are not a good fit for regulsr or short range applications. Alot of people think a shot cup set up for tighter patterns is best and that just isn't true across the board. It's based on your application.

@jackmasters9953 Жыл бұрын

Factory improved cylinder or modified with BB at decoying late season geese is $$$🔥. Thanks for your hard work doing these videos. Really helps the newbs and old farts like myself. Our goose season is reopening soon😃😃😃

@TheNewHuntersGuide Жыл бұрын

Thanks so much! I'm looking forward to our last late season stretch as well.

@joshuabennett7334 Жыл бұрын

Depending on the wad and shot if you choke it to tight it can blow the pattern out and get a worse pattern than if you ran a more open choke but it depends on wad shot size and material makeup witch is why you have to pattern every different type of shell you use

@TheNewHuntersGuide Жыл бұрын

Preach it!

@happymotoring4674 Жыл бұрын

Honest and to the point...no BULL, THANK YOU.

@TheNewHuntersGuide Жыл бұрын

Thank you so much!

@zacharyfelkel7924 Жыл бұрын

I like my mod or improve mod. I just got a kicks high flyer full for longer range stuff like the late season when they don’t get much closer than 30 yards but I’m using this for #6 Hevi-Shot longer range loads and not shooting closer than 25 yards. I look for patterns that are the size of a basketball at 25 and cover a 15” paper at 40. This pattern depends on shot size and the shell.

@TheNewHuntersGuide Жыл бұрын

Thanks for sharing!

@37gdog 5 ай бұрын

Each to their own, but every shotgun I own has an IM tube in it. I personally think it is the best all around tube you can use.

@maroney5828 Жыл бұрын

Awesome video, I'm in debate if I should invest in a light mod extended choke or stick with the factory choke and shoot at a closer range , I'm not comfortable shooting far range for many reasons, also I am new to waterfowl hunting, so between 20 and 30 yards I'm ok shooting at. Would a factory MOD choke still be ok? Or even an improved cylinder?

@TheNewHuntersGuide Жыл бұрын

Thanks! For most guns and chokes factory modified is going to be great for that application. Always pattern the shells you plan to hunt with to see what they do. I have seen aftermarket Mod chokes do better than Factory Mod, but that is only when factory choke is recessed and lousy. Most factory chokes these days are pretty good.

@maroney5828 Жыл бұрын

@@TheNewHuntersGuide thanks bro, this vid was so beneficial it's crazy! I was so confused how and what to do till I saw your video

@TheNewHuntersGuide Жыл бұрын

@@maroney5828 Awesome, so glad to be able to provide some help!

@BeardedNascarFan Жыл бұрын

Thanks George

@TheNewHuntersGuide Жыл бұрын

Thank you!

@dancortes3062 Жыл бұрын

One time out waterfowl hunting I ran into another hunter and had a conversation about choke tubes. He said that he had some kind of really tight Patternmaster choke and could kill a duck at 70 yards. He also told me that he sometimes shoots the heads and wings off ducks. He also said that he was a great shot, then I saw him shoot at some ducks at 30 yards and he missed every shot. He then complained that the ducks were flying too close. Ever since that day I have been turned off by full chokes or tighter.

@TheNewHuntersGuide Жыл бұрын

Ha. Some people are all talk. If you shoot their head off, you'll blow the body apart if you hit it. And then you have nothing to take home.

@jimmyboredom3519 Жыл бұрын

Totally. I have been hunting with a shotgun since i was a kid and one thing i learned quickly was i missed way more from my choke being too tight rather than too open. Anymore modified is about as tight as i care to go unless im after turkeys. Even then i cant help but think a turkey head is a small target that moves an awful lot. Not unlike something you would use a more open choke for. Never bothered with anything tighter than a factory full choke in a 12 gauge for turkey

@TheNewHuntersGuide Жыл бұрын

@@jimmyboredom3519 Thanks!

@dancortes3062 Жыл бұрын

@@jimmyboredom3519 Last season I used a Light Modified choke to great affect. I was still able to pull of some surprisingly far shots.

@sethmullins8346 Жыл бұрын

I shot trap for years in school and the absolute best I ever did was with extra full chokes. In my dad’s turkey gun. That guy was just lying. I shot 20-24/25 with a mossberg 835 turkey gun all the time.

@MichaelPirowski-nj3vf 2 ай бұрын

Yup, the Boss 1 3/4 oz. 3” 3/5 Warchiefs are out.

@TheNewHuntersGuide 2 ай бұрын

Might have to look into those. But honestly, I dont want the recoil. The 1.5 is at the threshold of what I want to shoot

@giorgigoisashvili7750 Жыл бұрын

You are right 😊 like always 👍👌

@TheNewHuntersGuide Жыл бұрын

Thank you so much for the support!

@BBD40 Ай бұрын

I recently improved my score on sporting clays, switching from modified to ic. Going to stay put but I’m curious about light modified

@TheNewHuntersGuide Ай бұрын

very nice! Lots of people would do well to apply that to hunting also.

@stevencaldwell838 Жыл бұрын

I think I’d be all good for everything with feathers with a 20 gauge single shot/ break action shotgun, a modified and a full choke, with #7.5-#9 bismuth and TSS…

@TheNewHuntersGuide Жыл бұрын

Yes indeed.

@Alianderfarm Жыл бұрын

Very logical. Thanks

@TheNewHuntersGuide Жыл бұрын

Thanks!

@johntandy8918 9 ай бұрын

I mostly agree with you sir ... but for my sport (which i may of just made up) of competative drone shooting, all those things sound perfect 😅

@TheNewHuntersGuide 9 ай бұрын

Haha, we I didn't have that in mind when I made this.

@jehovahuponyou Жыл бұрын

I DO ALL MY WING-SHOOTING WITH A .22LR PISTOL - I NEVER KILL A DAMN THING BUT I *"ALWAYS"* GET 100% PELLET COUNT - LMAO!!!!!!!! YOU SPEAK TRUTH - GOOD VIDEO - BRAVO!!!!!!!

@TheNewHuntersGuide Жыл бұрын

HAHA, thank you so much!

@nebraskaman8247 10 ай бұрын

Unless you’re really shooting far distances, I love the light modified. Hard to find them unless you order them online tho. Great video! It’s refreshing that you don’t dive into politics, and everyone can just learn/see performance features of various products.

@TheNewHuntersGuide 10 ай бұрын

Thanks so much! I hate the political side of it all. I think its clouding as well.

@juliusjames5577 Жыл бұрын

I was going to disagree till I realized some people use shotguns to hunt species other than turkey.

@TheNewHuntersGuide Жыл бұрын

Haha, this video was geared towards wing shooting.

@Luckyrider1958 8 ай бұрын

Sarcasm noted and approved!

@wdtaut5650 Жыл бұрын

In the lead shot days, I killed ALL my ducks and geese with my skeet gun. Early in the season, I used 7 1/2 shot for ducks Later, #6 for ducks, #4 for geese. Learn to hunt, let them come in close.

@TheNewHuntersGuide Жыл бұрын

Thanks!

@mrsmith9079 Жыл бұрын

Agreed. Excepting pass shooting geese, there is little benefit in trying to turn a shotgun into a rifle.

@TheNewHuntersGuide Жыл бұрын

Thanks so much!

@andrewgates8158 Жыл бұрын

Or hunting deer.

@josephsnisky1851 Жыл бұрын

Down range energy loss from tight chokes ? There has to be, when you press hard on the breaks in a vehicle the result is the rotors slow down and eventually stop vehicle due to tighter gap from the pads. So shot is not slowing and loosing energy ? We need to consider and actually practice more at 30 yards and less especially.

@TheNewHuntersGuide Жыл бұрын

I don't know about that either way. The opposite can be true though. You use a tighter opening on a garden hose to increase pressure, power, and range. That works because there is volume and force trying to escape the hose, but the shotgun has some things in common. I'll keep an eye out for info on this. I've never thought about it to research it.

@coastalcustomlure Жыл бұрын

Max effective range in any shotgun depends on shell, barrel and choke combination as verified with pattern testing. Not wives tales about a perceived 40 yards max. TSS has moved the goal posts as well as hand loaders loading for a specific purpose using a specific shotgun,barrel, choke combo. All hunters should know their chose equipment and have confidence in their skills and abilities. All too often a hunter grabs a box or two off the shelf and away they go. Pattern testing doesn’t lie. Pattern testing is the only way to have complete confidence in your setup.

@TheNewHuntersGuide Жыл бұрын

Yes and thank you!

@a.joegevara3519 4 ай бұрын

Great content! Gonna subscribe, I enjoyed your 930 video. I always had a Mossberg 500, bought a Shockwave a few years ago, and just picked up a 930 which I just can't decide on what direction I want to go with it. It came with the 18 & 28" barrels, I also just picked up two 24" ported barrels; a rifled slug and an accu-choke! I need/want an assortment of tubes. Only reason for that density is to take off a turkey's head??

@TheNewHuntersGuide 4 ай бұрын

That's awesome! Yea, this was a wing shooting video. You certainly want more density for turkey hunting, but not a crazy amount. Check out my recent video. The biggest lie in turkey hunting.

@joseph6738 Жыл бұрын

Put your furthest decoy at 40 yards shoot modified choke kill more ducks don't shoot any outside that decoy..keeps you in that perfect pattern zone

@TheNewHuntersGuide Жыл бұрын

That's a good rule of thumb!

@harrydick3300 Жыл бұрын

I can usually get two geese with a tighter choke but my geese hunting is like on the water turkey hunting because I don't decoy them perfectly legal and definitely don't get any pellets in the breast when the breast is on the water just something to think about but then again I'm using a single shotgun

@TheNewHuntersGuide Жыл бұрын

That is a fair point and even makes a case to use a turkey choke!

@Benelli-ex7oq Жыл бұрын

Can I use my factory choke that came with the gun like a full choke for turkey will it work

@TheNewHuntersGuide Жыл бұрын

Absolutely. I did a video on that subject kzfaq.info/get/bejne/kK6HqLiE0ZvOd5c.html& A tighter turkey choke will produce better results but a factory full is going to be just fine with quality ammo at regular distance. Winchester Longbear XR or any #9 TSS load will do everything you need it to do with a factory full. It can just do a little more with a tighter choke.

@ericgrittinger4640 10 ай бұрын

Killed over 2000 geese. Use a Remington 870, extended forcing cone and standard modified choke.58 bands.

@TheNewHuntersGuide 10 ай бұрын

Right on!

@jnie370 7 ай бұрын

Great info. Like to see 20 g turkey shotguns

@TheNewHuntersGuide 7 ай бұрын

Thanks so much! I hope to get one soon.

@loudom3217 6 ай бұрын

A picture is worth 1000 words. Next video show pictures of targets to show the shotgun pattern and keep the words down to " Now look here..."

@TheNewHuntersGuide 6 ай бұрын

It's a great idea. I need to start photographing all my targets to keep for illustrations like this.

@Pontiuspilate666 11 ай бұрын

Could you do a video on gore optifade camo on whether or not it works like sitka says?

@TheNewHuntersGuide 11 ай бұрын

I would love to, but I can't think of any objective data driven way to test it. And I'm sure SITKA is counting on that lol.

@Pontiuspilate666 11 ай бұрын

I use just sitka, I can't really think of a way to test it honestly. I just hope and pray it does what they say.

@TheNewHuntersGuide 11 ай бұрын

@zk1179 I have no reason to doubt it. I have no reason to trust it either though lol. But it's obviously a good pattern, you can tell by looking at it in the environment. I appreciate how their gear is quiet more than anything.

@jimdrechsel3611 8 ай бұрын

I understand about opening up the spread for shooting ducks at an average of 30 yards. The problem is if you want finish off a cripple in the water you don’t have the density to do so once they start moving away farther. If you don’t get the kill in time they dive down forever. What is your response to this situation? Thanks for an honest discussion.

@TheNewHuntersGuide 8 ай бұрын

Everything is a tradeoff. I can choke down to 100% pattern density at 40 yards, which is too tight for 40 and under most of the time. IF I hit close range birds they are destroyed. So for me it's better to open the choke alot for close range and hunt those birds well and sacrifice some of the long range finishing potential. Maybe a fair compromise is carrying two different kinds of shells. BOSS legacy out of a Full choke gives me about 70% pattern at 40 yards. BOSS Warcheif in the same choke gives me more like 95%. So I could use one ammo for flying birds and reload with the other for cripples. Granted, you don't always have time to reload. But you just gotta pick a setup that works right for you. This video was just trying to tell the other side of the story. I feel like in all my videos I am testing long range with tight chokes and want people to know thats not ideal for all situations.

@jimdrechsel3611 8 ай бұрын

⁠I think that’s a good possibility having some boss to finish off crippled ducks. I do get opportunities to reload and it’s frustrating to see birds swim away. It makes it more difficult knowing that I have crippled ducks and that I can’t send my dog out knowing the bird would just dive under at the last second. Who knows. If I like the boss enough I might use it. Thanks for the reply.

@User-nx7rs Жыл бұрын

I bought a turkey choke @ BPS about 20 years ago, a Hastings choke .640 that has me believing it is too tight.

@TheNewHuntersGuide Жыл бұрын

What kinds of patterns does it produce?

@User-nx7rs Жыл бұрын

@@TheNewHuntersGuide if I remember correctly about the size of a softball @ 40 yards. The only thing that would worry me is if the gobbler stopped at 10 yards away meaning the odds of missing with the choke being that tight are very high.

@TheNewHuntersGuide Жыл бұрын

@@User-nx7rs yea that's too tight for me! Lol

@mike_hunt_fish_trap Жыл бұрын

I'm pretty sure that hunters would like a choked tube that puts the mostpellets on paper as mechanically possible not as humanly possible.

@TheNewHuntersGuide Жыл бұрын

That works good for turkeys. But not always for wing shooting. Though I guess it depends on how you define, on the paper.

@tiputipu777 Жыл бұрын

I want the best long range performance for shooting pest birds. Ive shot pigeons sitting in the field measured at 60 meters and they are stone dead with no5 copper plated shot. Especially for walk and stalk, crows, magpies and jackdaws will fly away at about 30-40 meters, and sometimes they fly over at 50 meters and wont come in on decoys. For hunting food sure Ill use a tad more opened choke

@TheNewHuntersGuide Жыл бұрын

I would look at Lead #6 Remington Express loads or something Golden Pheasant #6 or #5. Look for velocity above 1200, I like 1300 myself, but too high causes pattern loss.

@williamhall7349 Ай бұрын

I was told that a 28 and a 16 didn’t string shot as bad as a 20 and a12 and a 3 inch 20 would string shot slot

@TheNewHuntersGuide Ай бұрын

Shot string theory has been debunked as a variable able to impact hunting performance. Recent high speed camera data shows that at the speeds the pattern moves, it's not possible to make a difference.

@NeilNork Жыл бұрын

you da man, any chance just for giggles we could see 20 gauge bismuth data.?

@TheNewHuntersGuide Жыл бұрын

Thanks! I don't have a 20 gauge, but the only difference is going to be pellet count. Some have said their 20s have better pattern efficiency their than 12s. It will depend in your specific gun and choke. Your 20 could indeed put more pellets in a 30" circle than a 12 even if it has a quarter ounce less shot. Then again, it could do worse too. I'll do some testing if I can get my hands on a good 20 gauge/choke combo.

@GregorsOutdoors Жыл бұрын

Hey it’s the American way. The price of eggs is more disturbing to me. Either way dude, you exude much passion.

@TheNewHuntersGuide Жыл бұрын

Haha, I'll take that as a complement.

@tatoo190 3 ай бұрын

Do you consider factory choke tubes to be adequate? The only chokes I have came with my shotgun.

@TheNewHuntersGuide 3 ай бұрын

Sometimes yes, they are as good as anything aftermarket. But it can depend on the brand, the gun, the production year, sometimes the tide. It appears random at time. I would start with the chokes you have and test those. The only reason to buy others is if those perform less desirably than you'd like. Or if they can't handle all the metals you are shooting.

@jeffhays1968 Жыл бұрын

What's the point of trying to get full choke out of all tubes ? You will shred your birds. You only need a dozen pellets near the vitals to take a bird.

@TheNewHuntersGuide Жыл бұрын

Yea, The marketing tries to make people think that higher % is better and means you'll take more birds. The truth is lots of people will take less because of it and blow their birds to pieces.

@williamwheeler7969 Жыл бұрын

Test the same ammo, same density choke, but with different gauges of shotgun.

@TheNewHuntersGuide Жыл бұрын

I'd love to, just need to get some of those gauges!

@ZEEKUPP 5 ай бұрын

Another game the companies play is the high velocity game.

@TheNewHuntersGuide 5 ай бұрын

Oh that's another video there!

@tainosavage2169 8 ай бұрын

How about right choke for home defense?

@TheNewHuntersGuide 8 ай бұрын

Its a good idea! But I mostly stick to the hunting space.

@anglerjmj 2 ай бұрын

IC all day long. Awesome patterns at 35yds.

@TheNewHuntersGuide 2 ай бұрын

Thanks!

@cihan9118 2 ай бұрын

If you want that densest pattern, use slug or rifle. Not shotgun. I use only 5no choke. Ammunition changes by range and by target. I have better consistent distributed pattern. Equal distribution. Using choke i have much more shots in the middle zone and sparse at the perimeter. I dont like that. Makes much more difficult to aim and hit. Especially for smaller flying birds. Equally distributed pattern is better at hunt i think.

@TheNewHuntersGuide 2 ай бұрын

Thanks!

@Alianderfarm Жыл бұрын

Is Apex ammunition worth the price.

@TheNewHuntersGuide Жыл бұрын

If you have the money and want top TSS performance then yes. If don't have or aren't willing to part with the cash then no. It's like the 80/20 rule. When it comes to waterfowl ammo, you can get 80% of the performance for 20% of the cost. But to get the rest of that 20% of performance, you have to spend 80% more. Or even more. I haven't tested Apex much, I'd like to. But my budget doesn't allow it right now.

@timeverett7828 Жыл бұрын

If the truth be known... the type of wad has more to do with pattern density than the choke tube does. Some shell makes pattern tighter than others even when using the same choke constriction.

@TheNewHuntersGuide Жыл бұрын

You can clearly see that in some turkey ammo tests I did last year using regular full chokes and turkey chokes, not all that much difference.

@timeverett7828 Жыл бұрын

@@TheNewHuntersGuide You can see it in different clay target loads as well.

@christinamoneyhan5688 9 ай бұрын

George, did anyone ever stop to think how the old timers killed ducks and geese? What their equipment they were using. Let’s see? A 2 3/4 “” shot shell with a 1 14 to 1 3/8 pay load of lead shot mostly # 6 down to BB and they were shooting these loads in full choke single barrel shotgun’s that hold 3 to 5 rounds. Or , they were using double barrel shotgun’s with two different choked barrels usually modified and full some were full and full. Nothing super fancy usually a nice reliable one. They pulled the game into proper shooting distance before even rising to shoot. Now they have supposedly safer shot but not so sure that it is better at killing the birds . It is sending the wrong message to hunters of how far they can take ducks, geese, turkeys., as far as water fowl I do realize the safety that it is providing water fowl. Yes, I am a senior shot gunner still holding on to my hand me down shotguns of wood and steel.👍👍🇺🇸✌🏻😎🙏🏽

@TheNewHuntersGuide 9 ай бұрын

I don't disagree with you, but I also have to entertain another point of view if you're willing to go with me for a moment. Again, what you say is true and very reasonable, but perhaps the story has more to it. What if old timers used the best tools they could afford to take the most ducks they possibly could under the conditions available to them? It was John Moses Browing who worked masterfully in the 1800s to create the first reliable and effective semi-automatic shotgun. His greatest motivating force was duck hunting. For 100 years, few found a way to improve much upon it. Throught the 1900s high end companies across Europe and the US worked passionately to refine over unders and other high end models costing $20,000 for waterfowl hunters, and were and are passionately used by the few able to afford them. The invention of the pump shotgun is more or less credited to a duck hunter. Hand loaders through the mid 1900 worked diligently to come up with way tonget better patterns and greater range. Since the bow and arrow were used, every generation of duck hunters has looked for ways to do this better, at greater range and to greater effect. Yes, we live in an age where marketing and the internet have muddied the water and our brains, but I think the same underlying passion to continually improve our gear and ability is unchanged. We just need to sort through the noise to focus on what actually helps and what is counterproductive. Marketing makes it sound like everything is a good idea, and few people are talking about how everything may have a time and place, but very little is a good idea across the board.

@christinamoneyhan5688 9 ай бұрын

@@TheNewHuntersGuide George , I concur with you on this subject of marketing. I do have a 1956 Browning Auto. 5 in 12 gauge. Quite the engineering masterpiece.

@Soli_Deo_Gloria_. Жыл бұрын

What is the realistic distance to shoot geese in mid air with the Federal 100 round bulk pack ammo from Walmart that's 12 gauge 3 inch 1 1/4 once BB Shot ? I appreciate your time spent in responding n' God bless

@TheNewHuntersGuide Жыл бұрын

Steel BB shot is lethal to maybe 50 yards. But getting enough pellets in a 30" circle at that range with the cheapest ammo on the market is going to be tough. Better steel gets you better patterns usually which extends your range some with BB shot. 40 yards max effective range with steel is pretty much the standard. Either you lose too much power or too much pattern if you go further. HEVI Steel or Fasteel BB shot might help you punch out as far as 50 with a great choke. Maybe. Else 40 is tops. You just can't get enough pellets on the target even if they still have enough power. But there is always the lucky shot that defies the odds.

@joseph6738 Жыл бұрын

@@TheNewHuntersGuide bb doesn't work well on large geese unless they are very close. Just my findings and not gospel

@SVTBansheeman Жыл бұрын

100 feet is a lot. I patterned my 28" and 14" guns with full and pattern masters chokes (including the new long range black momba). The number of pellets in a tight circle were not so good. But every gun is different.

@ballisticlt7452 8 ай бұрын

Why does your new content not seem to line up with this? You seem to be looking for the tightest choke possible like the muller UFO.

@ballisticlt7452 8 ай бұрын

Also, clean hit, clean miss isn’t a good reason for shooting a ridiculously tight choke. If the bird is on the edge of my ridiculously tight pattern and I just graze its butt, I would’ve had a cleaner kill with a more open choke that may have covered the entire bird.

@TheNewHuntersGuide 8 ай бұрын

I usually test for the tightest long range patterns because its one of the only ways to do an objective test for pattern potential. I also do alot of long range hunting. I made this video to counter balance that and talk about the other side of the coin and make sure people didn't get sucked into the tighter is always better mentality. Its hard to compare mid range patterns with mid range chokes, you can't generate data that is compelling. Its more about look and spread than number of pellets. Long range testing makes better videos. But I wanted to tell the other side of the story.

@TheNewHuntersGuide 8 ай бұрын

Yes, but that logic only goes so far. That will always be the case for every pattern at every range. There is always a fringe. Ultimately I agree with you, you want largest pattern of ideal density at whatever range you hunt. If I can have great density in a 60" pattern, then I want a 60" instead of a 30". TSS can make that possible. No reason to use a turkey choke with 400 pellets of TSS to shrink the circle. Bigger circles at normal ranges are better.

@ballisticlt7452 8 ай бұрын

@@TheNewHuntersGuide Thanks for the response. I think we are alike in that regard. It just seems like most people don’t understand that when one choke patterns tighter than another, that doesn’t make it a better choke. It’s all in what you’re looking for. I’m interested in the maximum effectivene range for the size pellet I’m shooting (lethal penetration). Then getting the largest effective pattern that I can with that shell.

@Seany1 9 ай бұрын

Is it alright to shoot bismuth shot with a factory choke?

@TheNewHuntersGuide 9 ай бұрын

Generally speaking yes, bismuth is just as safe as lead.

@Seany1 9 ай бұрын

@@TheNewHuntersGuide Thanks for the quick response. I haven't gone waterfowl hunting in a few years, I was 17 then so I just got the cheapest steel shells I could find. This year I decided to get back into hunting and from your videos I've decided I'll switch to bismuth

@TheNewHuntersGuide 9 ай бұрын

Thanks! So glad I could be a helpful part of your trip back into the sport!@@Seany1

@harrypeterson9287 Жыл бұрын

I've always just used cheap regular old 3 inch #2 steel from a fixed full choke, Federal, Remington, Winchester it doesn't matter to me. I almost always miss less and bring home more birds than the other guys I hunt with. If people want the advantages of bismuth or tungsten that's fine but in my personal experience you're just as well off in reality with the cheaper route.

@TheNewHuntersGuide Жыл бұрын

Also, people tend to the best with what they are used to and comfortable with. More practice with less changes to the setup gets better results.

@harrypeterson9287 Жыл бұрын

@@TheNewHuntersGuide It's my fathers old shotgun he used since his teens. Turns out it' actually an improved choke rather than full according to him.

@albertapeet Жыл бұрын

What the hell happens to the goose when it falls a 100 yards from the sky , it blows up on impact, what’s the point of that?!

@TheNewHuntersGuide Жыл бұрын

Well, for what it's worth, terminal velocity for a feathered bird is greatly limited. Falling from 30 yards or 100 yards or 1000 yards has not much increase in velocity on impact with the ground. They do not continue to accelerate, the weight, mass, feathers and drag slow them down alot. But I don't hunt like that and I wasn't advocating others do. That is just an example of a specialty situation.

@FirePirate099 Жыл бұрын

This video seems like it contradicts the new war chief loads

@TheNewHuntersGuide Жыл бұрын

The WarChief loads are another tool in the toolbox to be used as appropriate to accomplish your goals. If you are hunting birds at 20 yards, I would use a cylnder bore with legacy Boss to get the fastest spread possible. If you are pass shooting and jump hunting birds at long range, the warcheif is a wonderful gift. It was designed and marketed as a way to extend your range, not a full replacement for the legacy loads. There is no one size fits all load. It's about proper load and choke selection for the hunting you plan to do.

@FirePirate099 Жыл бұрын

@@TheNewHuntersGuide i respectfully disagree with the “no one size fits all” load. I have shot bismuth #4 at everything from teal to swans with excellent results. But back to the video topic- I do agree with your point that trying to achieve a 100% pattern is not very helpful in shooting moving targets.

@TheNewHuntersGuide Жыл бұрын

@FirePirate099 just because you can use the same load for everything doesn't mean it's the best load for everything. Short vs. Far, big birds vs. Small, different tools excel at different things.

@FirePirate099 Жыл бұрын

@@TheNewHuntersGuide I’m more concerned with learning how my gun patterns with 1 load and then becoming proficient shooting that 1 load. Having many different tools but lacking proficient shooting skills is not really a road I want to go down. I only have so much time to pattern loads, sharpen my shooting skills, become a better goose caller, scout new areas… etc. By keeping my load and shotgun consistent I don’t waste time. Only so many hours in a day. 😉

@danbushey7925 Жыл бұрын

I want to know what state you live in how tough the birds are is guess what most people where I live useful choke because the birds are freaking tough and even 20 yards you ain't blowing nothing off them! Yeah I mean your video is all right but yeah depends on where you live.

@TheNewHuntersGuide Жыл бұрын

I live in PA. Where are you seeing these armored birds?

@LoveShimla 11 ай бұрын

That's your perception, I want 90% of pellets in 25 inches at 50 yards. It gives nice accuracy for a sharp shooter like me.

@TheNewHuntersGuide 11 ай бұрын

Are you talking about wing shooting or turkey hunting?

@LoveShimla 11 ай бұрын

@@TheNewHuntersGuide You take the turkey head nicely in 50 meters, with such a nice tight pattern. No offence.

@TheNewHuntersGuide 11 ай бұрын

@@LoveShimla Yea sure. This whole video and point is focused on wing shooting, primarily waterfowl, pheasants, etc. Nothing I said in this video should be applied to turkey hunting. For turkey, I'd like to see 100% of my pattern in a 10" at 100 yards if that were possible, lol.

@Luckyrider1958 8 ай бұрын

@@LoveShimla This thread is not about TURKEY hunting, a VERY SPECIFIC hunt needing a very specific choke to hit a very specific small zone on a not flying target..... the HEAD.

@ericgrittinger4640 10 ай бұрын

Anything within 60 yards survive is not great. Less than 30 not much left with a modified.

@TheNewHuntersGuide 10 ай бұрын

Yea, depending on the ammo.

@Seajay1337 Жыл бұрын

But with 300 pellets in your bird you're doubling the mass of your meal. Good eats.

@TheNewHuntersGuide Жыл бұрын

Haha, never thought about it like that!

@fenwelder2474 Жыл бұрын

40 yard bird moving fast in twilight ."not coming into decoys "Good luck with that one. Try seeing it let alone killing it cleanly constantly and humanely..

@fenwelder2474 Жыл бұрын

I totally agree with your point of view. On this issue New Hunters Guide.

@TheNewHuntersGuide Жыл бұрын

Maybe twice ever I saw that bird in enough time to get a shot off. Probably shouldn't have shot either time.

@resipsaloquitur1775 7 ай бұрын

I don't use mine for birds... :)

@TheNewHuntersGuide 7 ай бұрын

What are you shooting? Coyotes? That would be a different game plan altogether.

@happynurse8706 8 ай бұрын

Totally confused cause you didn't tell me anything

@TheNewHuntersGuide 8 ай бұрын

Watch it again. I told you tighter patterns are often not better, contrary to the marketing of a many companies. 100% pattern density at 40 yards is kind of like using slugs at 20 yards, the few things you hit, will be obliterated. You need to tune your pattern for the ranges and game you're hunting.

@colt10mmsecurity68 11 ай бұрын

I’ve saw someone once use a modified choke from a 26” barrel in a 12 ga, bring down a high flying goose at at least 60 yards. That person however used an illegal 2 3/4” #4 buckshot (lead) load. But it sure brought the honker down like a brick tossed out of an airplane. It wasn’t until later that night over some beers did the guy admit to me that he used that illegal lead 😅shot shell. I wasn’t particularly pleased about his decision to do that, but I was impressed with the performance of #4 Buck.

@TheNewHuntersGuide 11 ай бұрын

Well, if it would kill a deer, it should kill a goose. If you can hit it with one of those pellets, that is. But I bet If the bird flew right though that loose pattern, you wouldn't have been as impressed, lol.

@eduffy4937 Жыл бұрын

I get 100% pattern density. I just make a 40" pattern. Still kills the hell out of ducks, and thats with a 28ga and bismuth#5

@TheNewHuntersGuide Жыл бұрын

Well you're changing the rules on the calculation then, if you make the circle big enough you'll always have 100% lol.

@eduffy4937 Жыл бұрын

@@TheNewHuntersGuide thats my point. At decoy distances(20yds) i want the widest patrern i can get while still being effective.

@eduffy4937 Жыл бұрын

@@TheNewHuntersGuide too many people want the tightest pattern available so they can burger birds. I like the biggest pattern that still cleanly kills. To me it just makes more sense.

@jeffbarris8172 Жыл бұрын

Open that pattern up! Kill more birds! Most hunters don't shoot well at 40 yards and a tight pattern is not helping anything! God bless you and go get them in the marsh!

@TheNewHuntersGuide Жыл бұрын

Thank you so much Jeff!

@joseph6738 Жыл бұрын

I only look at the very center core of the pattern that's what kills the bird. 4 or 5 pellets in the 5 inch center is what does the trick. All the rest of the pattern is luck because of the shot string.....just my findings of shooting rocket fast chukars.

@TheNewHuntersGuide Жыл бұрын

That is a tough one, how can you tell if you are able to hit a fast-flying bird with the dead center of your pattern?

@joseph6738 Жыл бұрын

If the bead of your gun is the 5 pellets. And you are off the bird at all you will miss a going away bird ... every time. Try to hit a sporting clays or a bird with the edge of your pattern

@Windwalker_Outdoors Жыл бұрын

@@joseph6738 You have a lot to learn. Are you telling everyone that only the 4-5 pellets at the center of the pattern will break a clay bird but the other 350 or so pellets won't??? What do they do, bounce off?

@joseph6738 Жыл бұрын

Just my opinion. Try hitting the going away clay with the bead off to the side. Try it. Then tell me

@Windwalker_Outdoors Жыл бұрын

@@joseph6738 I shoot clays about every Wednesday evening during the summer....mainly skeet. Greensburg Sportsmens Club. Come shoot with us

@DARRELLGRIFFITHS 5 ай бұрын

Wow, I'm pretty sure if this guy was not American, this video would be about 3 minutes long.

@TheNewHuntersGuide 5 ай бұрын

Each of my videos could be a short, but that's not my channel. I go in depth to dig out more insights and provide more information.

@wagner24314 Жыл бұрын

ive found lite mod is about best for the 10 to 40 yard and improved mod 30 to 100 yards

@TheNewHuntersGuide Жыл бұрын

Did you say 100 yars?

@wagner24314 Жыл бұрын

@@TheNewHuntersGuide yes we use a range finder and sky bust snows with bb steel and bismuth #2 both 1 1/4 oz lead is about 30 feet at 100 yards. what we do is pick a bird in a dense part of the flock and pull lead and shoot on the count of 3. we bring down a lot of geese that way. just broken wings neck and head hits

@TheNewHuntersGuide Жыл бұрын

@@wagner24314 Wow, what kind of chokes?

@wagner24314 Жыл бұрын

@@TheNewHuntersGuide I use carlson extended in a stoeger uplander and my friend uses a extended range pattern master.

@ballisticlt7452 Жыл бұрын

@@wagner24314 that’s the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard. I’ve been shot with steel BB at a bit over 100 yards and it doesn’t even break skin.

@rickvann3489 Жыл бұрын

Clearly not talking turkey... here

@TheNewHuntersGuide Жыл бұрын

Yea it's a wing shooting video.

@JefferyWoodcock 17 күн бұрын

I've heard all my life (60 yrs) there is no one choke for everything, BULL!!! modified is it!!!! Every choke in the world can't take the place of skill. Every time you change a choke you have to learn a new pattern characteristic. Learn one pattern, change shot size.

@TheNewHuntersGuide 17 күн бұрын

One choke can do everything. It just can't do everything great. Modified may work great for some ammo but it's not with everything.

@davidkirkpatrick712 11 ай бұрын

Ported chokes are a waste. John Clouse Angle Porting owner

@TheNewHuntersGuide 11 ай бұрын

Probably most of the time, but not 100% always: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/ett9iKSempm6n2w.html&

@cihan9118 2 ай бұрын

This man talks too much but talks truth!

@wcb5890 Жыл бұрын

30" circle is 706 sq inches....#4 steel 1/4oz averages 240 pellets. Thats 1 pellet every 2.9in 100% pattern. That is hardly destroying ducks. And to say you cant get much beyond 40yds is laughable. Yes, guys shootong ducks at their feet should just buy basic ammo and use factory chokes with more open patterns. Shooters have know this for ever. Look at sporting clay shooters that change chokes sometimes station to station. To say tight patterns and upper end ammo is highly specialized is a bit of a reach.

@TheNewHuntersGuide Жыл бұрын

Those 240 pellets will never be perfectly evenly dispersed. But in a 30" circle, that is a lot of pellets for a duck. Problem is, at 20 yards, you have that many pellets in a 15" circle with a lot more velocity and that is utterly destroying ducks IF you can hit them. That's my overall point.

@wcb5890 Жыл бұрын

@@TheNewHuntersGuide I get the point on if you hit them. However, in my experience more birds are crippled due to open patterns at 30-40yds than are destroyed inside of that. 100% agree at close range most guys will have better hit % with a larger pattern.

@Plainsimple67 Жыл бұрын

I CERTAINLY DO NOT WANT SO MANY PELLETS IN THAT BIRD, WITH ALL THAT LEAD CONTAMINATION, WHO WANTS TO EAT THAT 🐦BIRD!!🥴🥴🥴🤢🤮 ON THE OTHER HAND, SHOOTING GOOSE WAY OUT THERE, MAYBE A GOOD HANDY THING TO HAVE FOR TIGHT PATTERNS.

@TheNewHuntersGuide Жыл бұрын

Yup, its all about setting the pattern for the hunting situation. Not defaulting to overkill.

@Plainsimple67 Жыл бұрын

@@TheNewHuntersGuide you are absolutely correct, even though I don't hunt much, but you do not want to destroy your animal at the same time, if you have plans to eat it.

@jeffpeterson2838 9 ай бұрын

What you yelling for

@TheNewHuntersGuide 9 ай бұрын

That's just me being excited.

@user-bf3nj3tv2b 10 ай бұрын

Do you reccomd full chock for waterfowl hunting ? 20 yard and longer range ?

@TheNewHuntersGuide 10 ай бұрын

Depends entirely on the ammo you are using. For some yes, for others tighter, and for some more open.

@user-bf3nj3tv2b 10 ай бұрын

I also fogot to ask, is it really impossible to use stock chockes to hunt waterfowl?? I have winchester sxp havent used it yet for Waterfowl, but i am on a tight budget, i was hoping to get out and use only stock choke, modified chocke aith shot 2 3inch steel, im sure im still able to kill something between 20 and 30 yards ?

@TheNewHuntersGuide 10 ай бұрын

There is no reason you shouldn't be able to hunt great with stock chokes. Modified is the most often used. You should be fine with that. Test it on paper at the ranges you plan to hunt and review your pattern. If your happy, that's all you need. If you aren't happy, you can always explore different chokes down the road. Stock chokes usually work just fine, sometimes as good or better than aftermarket chokes.

@user-bf3nj3tv2b 10 ай бұрын

@TheNewHuntersGuide thank you for very much for the info