The Cairngorm Plateau Disaster | A Short Documentary | Fascinating Horror

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Fascinating Horror

Fascinating Horror

Күн бұрын

"On the 19th of November, 1971, a group of high school students from Ainslie Park School in Edinburgh set off for a weekend adventure in the Cairngorms..."
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CHAPTERS:
00:00 - Intro
00:38 - About The Cairngorms
02:37 - The Cairngorm Plateau Disaster
09:45 - The Aftermath
MUSIC:
► "Glass Pond" by Public Memory
► "Night Snow" by Asher Fulero
SPECIAL THANKS:
► Many thanks to Kit Rodman-Orr for help with the pronunciation of place names in this video!
​​​​​​​#Documentary​​​​ #History​​​​​​​​​ #TrueStories​

Пікірлер: 3 700
@FascinatingHorror
@FascinatingHorror 2 жыл бұрын
PS: My friend Disasterthon (who is also based in the UK) has covered this disaster, too! Take a look at his video if you want another take on this one: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/fL6FfbaFlavRnoE.html.
@tinastagg6258
@tinastagg6258 2 жыл бұрын
Great to see you supporting other channels that cover similar content!
@_Circus_Clapped_
@_Circus_Clapped_ 2 жыл бұрын
I'm early, hell yeah
@Jettaheizer
@Jettaheizer 2 жыл бұрын
I´ve allready seen it on Disasterthon´s channel a few weeks ago, but honestly I like your version more...
@cadillacdeville5828
@cadillacdeville5828 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks a bunch, will do 🥰🥰🥰
@ruffles886
@ruffles886 2 жыл бұрын
What if I say no? Will you spank me? 😉
@dominusetdeus060644
@dominusetdeus060644 2 жыл бұрын
The guy who taught me a lot about mountains told me "never split a large group into small ones!!!!" And never abandon people behind especially if they have less experience or equipment, thinking that they will catch up.
@evegreenification
@evegreenification 2 жыл бұрын
This is the lesson one draws from horror films (my training ground) as well.
@MRVISTA-wz7vj
@MRVISTA-wz7vj 2 жыл бұрын
Agreed. Makes no sense to leave the least experienced all in the same group. That was stupid. I'd like to know what that guys reason for that was.
@blackosprey2219
@blackosprey2219 2 жыл бұрын
Never split the party...
@rebeccawoolfolk5377
@rebeccawoolfolk5377 2 жыл бұрын
I know nothing about hiking in the wilderness, but when the experienced group left the inexperienced one, I thought, "That doesn't sound like a good idea."
@dankmatter3068
@dankmatter3068 2 жыл бұрын
i mean its all like common sense right
@hollyann9610
@hollyann9610 2 жыл бұрын
Why would you put the less experienced guide in charge of the younger and inexperienced kids!? The younger and less experienced need more support in good conditions, let alone frigid bad weather.
@vaughnsigal4560
@vaughnsigal4560 2 жыл бұрын
Even more so, why did they split up.
@nlwilson4892
@nlwilson4892 2 жыл бұрын
The man proving his manliness by going with the quicker group. (I'm not saying that is a good reason). But often you do get male teachers who are into the outdoor activities trying to prove themselves in front of the boys.
@nancyaustin9516
@nancyaustin9516 2 жыл бұрын
Yeah, that shows the mindset--they were thinking this was a walk in the park, nothing potentially risky about hiking in the Cairngorms!
@pickles3128
@pickles3128 2 жыл бұрын
I noticed almost all of the names of the group that died were female. Perhaps they split up mostly by gender?
@underwaterdick
@underwaterdick 2 жыл бұрын
Agreed, a massive failing here was splitting the group entirely by ability, leader included. Splitting up was a good idea, but the split wasn't done correctly.
@Teeb2023
@Teeb2023 2 жыл бұрын
4:31 _"They split into smaller groups, with the more experienced hikers [...] striking out ahead"_ Stupidest decision ever.
@francis7336
@francis7336 2 жыл бұрын
what could go wrong i wonder 💀
@trentvlak
@trentvlak Жыл бұрын
They were weary of doing the slow walk.
@LewHammer
@LewHammer Жыл бұрын
My hand was over my mouth as soon as I heard that bit. I have precisely 0 hiking experience yet I still knew that sounded like a terrible idea.
@phillydisco
@phillydisco Жыл бұрын
Not necessarily. If you have two 'experienced' leaders, then it makes sense to split up. But ultimately, I would have insisted on a turn around plan for the slower group, not push towards any shelter. Especially with the coming snow storm. That right there was the fatal flaw, plus heading out late in the day.
@markcynic808
@markcynic808 Жыл бұрын
Experienced hikers? They were 15 year olds.
@shirleyanneyoung955
@shirleyanneyoung955 2 жыл бұрын
My father’s best friend lost his daughter in this tragedy. He was never the same, he could never get over her death.
@bjhcvuaerpigfy
@bjhcvuaerpigfy 2 жыл бұрын
I don't believe anybody 'gets over' this kind of grief. Your life goes on and you may learn to live with it, but you don't ever 'get over it'. And yes, it changes you in a way that you can never go back. Thanks for sharing your story.
@shirleyanneyoung955
@shirleyanneyoung955 2 жыл бұрын
@@bjhcvuaerpigfy you’re right about never getting over that kind of grief, that was badly put but I didn’t know how else to say it. I didn’t mean to be unfeeling. I was about the same age as his daughter and I’m sure it must have been difficult for him to see me growing up and doing things his daughter never got the chance to do. It was so sad, they were both such lovely people. Sorry for my horrible choice of words.
@bjhcvuaerpigfy
@bjhcvuaerpigfy 2 жыл бұрын
@@shirleyanneyoung955 No need to apologize Shirley, what you said was absolutely fine. And I'm sorry if my comment came across as some kind of criticism of yours. It wasn't meant that way. What I was trying to do was build on/ add to, what you had said. To reaffirm what you had said. I feel that when it comes to grief there are some myths that do harm and that they, therefore, should be dispelled if possible. You and I both understand that there is some grief that you never 'get over' and I believe people need to hear this. Another one is this idea of 'the 5 stages of grief' which most people have heard of (and believe), but very few have heard that the person who came up with this idea, got it by interviewing people who were dying. By interviewing people who were facing their own deaths, not dealing with the death of a loved one. Obviously, not the same thing. The first rule of grief should be "there are no rules!" Whatever a person is feeling, and whenever they are feeling it: it's okay.
@Commentator541
@Commentator541 2 жыл бұрын
So tragic.
@KryssLaBryn
@KryssLaBryn 2 жыл бұрын
Please tell me the medical personnel knew enough to thaw them out before they declared them dead! Children, especially very young children, but these may still have been young enough for it to happen, actually go into a torpor when they get very cold. Their heart rate can slow down to the point that it's undetectable even with a stethoscope; but if they are still treated as hypothermic and carefully warmed up again, there's a chance that they might not actually be dead. There was a terrible case in I think Ontario several years ago, where a toddler woke up very early and managed to let herself out into the yard to play one winter; but then couldn't get the door open again to go back inside, and was found huddled up against the door quite some time later, cold and stiff. Of course EMTs were called, and she was rushed off to the hospital-- where some idiot (who as I recall was later charged) declared her dead at once, zipped her into a body bag, and sent her off to the morgue for an autopsy. Which then found that she had actually died from suffocation, from being zipped into the bag. :( On a happier note, back in I guess the late Seventies or very early Eighties, I met a kid around my own age (young teen?) who had, when he was younger, fallen through the ice on the north coast of British Columbia (where we lived). He had been trapped under the ice in the freezing water for around half an hour before they got him out, and frankly, the water temperature is probably the only reason he didn't just drown. Had taken some damage to the speech centre of his brain and was a little hard to understand at first; but once we could we realized pretty quickly he was a perfectly normal kid otherwise. I still remember a sign I saw taped up in an emergency department somewhere: "Kids aren't dead until they're warm and dead." I really hope the medical personnel there knew that. :/
@mamamiabenjamia
@mamamiabenjamia 2 жыл бұрын
once i was telling a neighbour's friend from europe about someone who got lost on a canoe trip and did the right thing by staying where she was until someone found her. neighbour's friend thought this was weird and was like 'why didn't she just keep canoeing until she got to the next village?' i was like 'this is canada. there is no next village.'
@OmmerSyssel
@OmmerSyssel 2 жыл бұрын
Well, Europe isn't Canada, so the logic was relevant. Adapting to given natural circumstances is the basic rule.
@mamamiabenjamia
@mamamiabenjamia 2 жыл бұрын
@@OmmerSyssel my point wasn't to mock her because, of course, that logic is completely relevant and she was in a foreign country where it's not obvious that circumstances would be different for outbound survival. i meant to highlight that even logical thinking could doom you depending on your understanding of the circumstances, which goes for both of us. if our places were switched, i'd be just as unlikely to understand that there's a village a couple of hours down the river as she would be to understand that there isn't any village anywhere.
@ix6553
@ix6553 2 жыл бұрын
@Puppy Power what is the acronym for this ? I couldn’t find it online
@karyndewit193
@karyndewit193 2 жыл бұрын
Lol
@Ryuko-T72
@Ryuko-T72 2 жыл бұрын
Yup. Very easy to get lost in the various winding rivers and thick forests in the north.
@Lexcoaster
@Lexcoaster 2 жыл бұрын
The kids huddling around the smalles one to protect him.... Man. That's both heartbreaking as well as heartwarming...
@zoe8010
@zoe8010 2 жыл бұрын
i can only imagine how traumatic that must have been for him, having all of his friends huddle around him and all of them slowly dying
@Bl4ckD0g
@Bl4ckD0g 2 жыл бұрын
I'm not sure I'd have wanted to survive that.
@adonaiyah2196
@adonaiyah2196 2 жыл бұрын
Whyd this even happen
@curbyourshi1056
@curbyourshi1056 2 жыл бұрын
Agreed. Bless them all.
@PoptartParasol
@PoptartParasol 2 жыл бұрын
Good kids, right down to the wire. I agree, it's equal parts heartwarming to hear that as it is heartbreaking
@oliversmith9200
@oliversmith9200 2 жыл бұрын
What a sad tragedy. When Catherine saw the rescuers, but, her yelling for help couldn't be heard, I thought of my whistle. A common sport whistle is something worth carrying at all times, certainly out of doors.
@alisonwilson9749
@alisonwilson9749 2 жыл бұрын
We don't do stuff as tough as the Cairngorms, but we always have a whistle with us- one each. Even if we don't get into difficulties (and we haven't in over 40 years) one day we may find someone else who is.
@kspen6110
@kspen6110 Жыл бұрын
It saved Rose on the platform she was laying on in the Titanic. 😉
@tvctaswegia497
@tvctaswegia497 Жыл бұрын
A whistle can be heard much further than a shout, and a mirror flash (conditions permitting) seen much further again. I've carried both as standard emergency gear for years even though I've never needed them. It's incredible how ill-prepared this group was (singularly, not carrying a single shelter while walking into snow country with bad weather forecast...), a cascade of failures that ended in tragedy.
@sdemosi
@sdemosi Жыл бұрын
@@tvctaswegia497 the 2nd group's flares being buried was an extraordinary turn of events. They had not made it to shelter. The flares were vital and they didn't even have them to signal to rescuers who were passing near them in the night. I keep wondering how the hell this happened. They had a lifeline & lost it. Stories like this are terrifying but it's amazing the risks we and our schools took as kids. When I'm hillwalking or mountain trekking now I always bring a flare and a GPS emergency locator in a aerogel pocket. I never want to find myself in a situation where I can't call for help. Also a lot of hiking packs now come with built in whistles as they're such a simple and important safety device
@tvctaswegia497
@tvctaswegia497 Жыл бұрын
@@sdemosi From some bitter experience, being over-prepared is far better than trying to manage a situation or emergency underprepared. It's the key Scout motto. It's tragic, I don't understand why she did not have the flares to hand to use the instant needed. That said, I've been seriously hypothermic, so I understand, plus the exhaustion, trauma and terror of trying to handle panicked children probably can't be understated. It's easy to make armchair decisions after the fact but in those hairy moments or inattention FH highlights, it's easy to make a mistake (even an honest one). Quite often a few minor errors or miscalculations that are each manageable, in sum snowball into disaster. Stay safe (and prepared!) out there.
@josephvanwie6706
@josephvanwie6706 2 жыл бұрын
Putting all the older experienced together, and all the younger inexperienced in one group is unforgivable! Especially the adults that ran the school.
@illuminaticake4528
@illuminaticake4528 8 ай бұрын
Actually that wasnt the school's decision
@DancingPony1966-kp1zr
@DancingPony1966-kp1zr 6 ай бұрын
It does strike me that if the more experienced groups were behind the others, they might’ve caught up with and assisted the others….
@festina_lente7655
@festina_lente7655 6 ай бұрын
Quiet loser🤓
@thomaslane9899
@thomaslane9899 5 ай бұрын
what was the man thinking? selfish attitude and irresponsible to leave younger and weaker people behind and press ahead with your own agenda - completely irresponsible!!
@AisforAlibi1
@AisforAlibi1 2 жыл бұрын
The first rule of hiking - the group stays TOGETHER. If one turns back, everyone turns back. The group never splits. I love to hike, camp, etc. and I've been disappointed at having to turn back several times but better arriving home safe than dead.
@haroldwilkes6608
@haroldwilkes6608 2 жыл бұрын
Agreed...the weakest link controls the advance where hazard is involved. Unless you're past the point of no return (which they weren't).
@grahamjarman
@grahamjarman 2 жыл бұрын
exactly, sad these people didnt use sense
@LittleGreenSoldier
@LittleGreenSoldier 2 жыл бұрын
I remember trying to drill that into the heads of the people I was hiking with on a college trip. We were in the Swiss Alps, and every time they started wandering away from the group I would scold them until they were quite sick of me... until one of our group collapsed from dehydration, as he had been drinking the night before and hadn't brought enough water. Then suddenly I was the most popular person in the group because I knew how to care for him and had a whistle that summoned some German hikers who had radios.
@kevinjones9547
@kevinjones9547 2 жыл бұрын
Is it especially true while backpacking. Usually one person is in charge of carrying the fuel, one person is in charge of carrying the tent, one person is in charge of carrying the food etc. if one person were to get lost or to separate from the group, they wouldn’t be able to make it very long on their own but if the group stays together they can survive a lot longer
@swayjaayy5495
@swayjaayy5495 2 жыл бұрын
That's the first rule of hiking? Hmm. I have been long distance hiking and a avid fan of hiking most of my life and I've never heard that as a first rule. Quit trying to sound smart and dramatic. First rule is be prepared and knowledgeable of where you are going. Obviously so
@OcyTaviAh
@OcyTaviAh 2 жыл бұрын
"We should get rid of emergency shelters because some people may misuse them" is such a bad take
@MarsJenkar
@MarsJenkar 2 жыл бұрын
I find it especially galling because the people who actually made it to that particular shelter all survived!
@explicitbrainjuice6545
@explicitbrainjuice6545 2 жыл бұрын
@@MarsJenkar I really don’t know how they came to the conclusion to demolish it.
@chatteyj
@chatteyj 2 жыл бұрын
@@explicitbrainjuice6545 I can totally see the logic behind it, without it being there they would have decided and been able to turn back when the weather turned bad rather than pushing on to the shelter. The shelter gives a a goal to aim for and perhaps a false sense of security. Also to me those emergency shelters look like death traps. What happens if theres too much snow overnight and in the morning you cannot open the door because of the weight of the snow?
@piperjaycie
@piperjaycie 2 жыл бұрын
Me neither but I think it had something to do with the people who made that decision being seen as doing something. Even if it was stupid they can say ‘We did something about this’. I personally would have thought building a few more would have been a better idea.
@guildwarrior3232
@guildwarrior3232 2 жыл бұрын
@@chatteyj Hence the need for experienced guides. The decision to demolish those shelters is like removing an item from your survival kit. Asinine.
@alangardner8596
@alangardner8596 2 жыл бұрын
Speaking from experience having been stranded in a bothy for the night at 10,000 ft I think it is madness to have demolished it.
@alangardner8596
@alangardner8596 Жыл бұрын
@Purgatory Maybe We wrapped in damp blankets in the refuge until dawn and when the sun warmed everything up we descended.
@comeoutofthedark8910
@comeoutofthedark8910 Жыл бұрын
I'm with you, Alan. destroying existing resources because of what someone "may" do reeks of that special short-sightedness that government is famous for.
@johannesbols57
@johannesbols57 Жыл бұрын
It's the UK, what do you expect? Reason?
@DrJason-il7pb
@DrJason-il7pb 6 ай бұрын
As a mountaineer myself - I'm beyond bewildered by the decision. "The shelter gives them something to aim for, so let's demolish it so their only option is to turn back no matter how far out they are"?? What a foolish mindset!
@Badficwriter
@Badficwriter 6 ай бұрын
@@DrJason-il7pb Many many mountaineering disasters have this "we didn't want to turn back" mindset. If you're not prepared to live outdoors in horrid weather, don't leave civilization.
@duzehalo
@duzehalo 2 жыл бұрын
I can't. There were so many mistakes made. I would never call myself experienced hiker (though I attended and helped organised several treks) but red flags were raising left and right when I was watching this video: - never split the group - unless there are two routes (harder and easier) - and never lose the tail entirely, wait for them to catch up. Optimally, have a second experienced guide at the very end. - especially, never split the group based on experience - the moment you have split a group into experienced and inexperienced, one of them is set for failure. - never start the hike late into the day - start as early as possible so in case of any unplanned events you still have time to safely manage them. - never start the hike with ski lift/cable way (unless you know 100% the route is below your group's experience) - leave it for the easy return - this way you'll get a chance to see if any of the participants isn't fit for the hike and needs more assistance. - bad weather? Seriously reassess your plan and scale it down. It's better to have it uneventful than to have someone die. Extremely bad weather? CANCEL THE PLAN AND WAIT IT OUT! - keep your eyes (not literally) on the emergency kit - know where it is at all times and keep it safe - it will try to keep you safe in return. All these points I learned when dealing with experienced adult hikers. I wouldn't even attempt to plan any winter trip like that for unexperienced teens. In mountains things can go very wrong very quick in fair summer weather
@melodiefrances3898
@melodiefrances3898 Жыл бұрын
Thank you Calming Chaos for a succinct analysis. 👍🏼
@soaptastesalrightiguess7932
@soaptastesalrightiguess7932 Жыл бұрын
waddup waddup I did this 7 times with (somewhat) inexperienced teens on mountains that are SIGNIFICANTLY longer, more dangerous and more difficult than Cairngorm. bad weather is the killer. It can turn a route you know like the back of your hand into a living nightmare in the blink of an eye. While the organization and management was non-existent, you really can not understate just how much a storm can change things.
@gordonaliasme1104
@gordonaliasme1104 11 ай бұрын
Have a medal 🥉
@Hakumeiun
@Hakumeiun 2 жыл бұрын
Here in the US, parks often urge hikers to let the slowest, least experienced people set the pace for a hike. When better, more experienced hikers outpace those who are slower, disaster can easily follow
@nlwilson4892
@nlwilson4892 2 жыл бұрын
That is generally the practice in the UK, any splitting of groups is usually so one can take an easier route, missing the peak for instance.
@alleycatalog
@alleycatalog 2 жыл бұрын
I was once left behind by myself because I was wearing the wrong king of sandals and could not go fast. I got very dehydrated and some lady gave me half of her water. While I was a pretty experienced hiker it took something as simple as footwear, lack of water and impatience on the part of my fellow hikers to make it a bad situation.
@blueskies6475
@blueskies6475 2 жыл бұрын
Well, duh, it's me first generation!
@royfearn4345
@royfearn4345 2 жыл бұрын
The speed of a convoy is the speed of its slowest ship. Old seafaring maxim.
@shimmershine6902
@shimmershine6902 2 жыл бұрын
My friends when they leave me behind when I stop to tie my shoe 😔
@beanyboom18
@beanyboom18 2 жыл бұрын
Children leading children on a potentially deadly trip, being late november and freezing cold is a recipe for disaster. They should never have been allowed to go.
@dr.coomer789
@dr.coomer789 2 жыл бұрын
Yeah the 20 year old (if that's what you mean by children) was pretty inexperienced with the area
@staceysharee9387
@staceysharee9387 2 жыл бұрын
I don’t understand why the more experienced leader split with the more able bodied students.
@FRLN500
@FRLN500 2 жыл бұрын
The leaders were NOT children. There were adults in charge. Please watch the video again.
@Vid_Master
@Vid_Master 2 жыл бұрын
yea but now you get to hear an interesting story
@emmadavis5633
@emmadavis5633 2 жыл бұрын
I can’t imagine how freezing it must have been! I once went camping in Scotland, during their Summer, and that was cold enough for me!
@babyleafsaladd5322
@babyleafsaladd5322 11 ай бұрын
What a horrifying experience for Raymond, having your friends huddle around you for warmth, all slowly dying one by one, knowing that you’ll probably die soon too if you’re not found… that poor kid must have been absolutely traumatised. That’s truly the stuff of nightmares.
@AK-jt7kh
@AK-jt7kh 6 ай бұрын
I think most of the horror for Raymond would have come after the fact. In reality, in such a situation, you are not aware of your surroundings. You usually tend to think the people around you are still alive - and you're not able to check that they're not. Hypothermia also really impairs your senses. It's like being under the influence of powerful sedatives. Processing what happened after the fact & trying to remember little details to make sense of what happened is where the mental horror comes from.
@CarlCoppinger
@CarlCoppinger Ай бұрын
​@@AK-jt7khI feel so bad for him 😭
@Lauren-hs5ht
@Lauren-hs5ht 2 жыл бұрын
The fact that the older children protected the youngest with their lives breaks my heart.
@samspencer7765
@samspencer7765 2 жыл бұрын
Damn Catherine had perseverance, if she hadn't managed to go on walking, stumbling and crawling toward safety they wouldn't have found anyone alive.
@amazed92
@amazed92 2 жыл бұрын
they didn't find them all alive - just one out of the group that was with her survived
@jic1
@jic1 2 жыл бұрын
@@amazed92 Which doesn't contradict what he said.
@RK-zh5vj
@RK-zh5vj 2 жыл бұрын
Too bad she didnt have the intelligence to not lead a bunch of kids to their death. Hardly a hero.
@RK-zh5vj
@RK-zh5vj 2 жыл бұрын
@@narichan No. We have a thing called personal responsibility. I know its mostly lost now, but she is the adult. She is responsible. Period. She lead them to their deaths, there is no way to argue this.
@stevenkelby2169
@stevenkelby2169 2 жыл бұрын
@@RK-zh5vj I disagree with you. I will argue with you. Saying that she led them to their deaths implies intent. There was no intent. You are wrong 🍻
@deprofundis3293
@deprofundis3293 2 жыл бұрын
As others have said, splitting the "experienced" up from the inexperienced was ridiculous and definitely makes me question just how experienced Ben actually was. Given that he died 7 years later in another outdoors accident, I'm thinking this leader had a wee bit too much overconfidence...
@paddyjoe1884
@paddyjoe1884 2 жыл бұрын
The most insulting thing you can call a mountaineer is "experienced" because generally you learn from your mistakes. I'm "experienced" (in that I've "extended the hike" or "explored other possible destinations" once or twice). The trick is learning to do it safely. And ya overconfidence is dangerous on mountains.
@nikstone2420
@nikstone2420 2 жыл бұрын
Lets just call it what he was stupid.
@johnattwood8467
@johnattwood8467 2 жыл бұрын
interesting. youre right. thanks for the info.
@DinnerForkTongue
@DinnerForkTongue 2 жыл бұрын
The slow and insidious killer.
@slyfoxie55
@slyfoxie55 2 жыл бұрын
It's a disgrace that the less experienced group had his girlfriend and a volunteer with little experience.
@jakedixonvideodiary
@jakedixonvideodiary 2 жыл бұрын
Man this is crazy! I was hiking in the Cairngorms for the first time, for 3 days last weekend and it was a nightmare - the weather was awful and I took a tumble into the Geldie Burn and hypothermia set in so quickly, it was terrifying! Luckily, we happened upon one of these bothys and the Mountain Bothy Association just so happened to be having their first annual meeting is over 3 years - what an amazing group of people, they volunteer to maintain the 100 odd bothys around Scotland and all seemed to have a story to share similar to mine, when a Bothy and the people within had saved their lives. They got me in front of the fire and were all popping up and putting their gas heaters around me, one of the guys even pulled out a drill and rope and hung me up a washing line to dry all of my clothes and sleeping bag! A few of the guys also had their guitars so a night of music and a lot of whiskey followed. It was an amazing night with some really special people that made everything worth while, including the hypothermia! Feeling even luckier after watching this 😬
@kathyinwonderlandl.a.8934
@kathyinwonderlandl.a.8934 2 жыл бұрын
How wonderful this was your experience…
@kasimsultonfan
@kasimsultonfan Жыл бұрын
As soon as the guitars came out , I'd have walked out naked into the dark and taken my chances on the mountain...
@Kaarna5
@Kaarna5 Жыл бұрын
Sounds like you were woefully inadequately prepared
@Badficwriter
@Badficwriter 6 ай бұрын
This is the adventure seeker's mindset. Wanting to feel excitement by risking death in the wilderness, not wanting to properly prepare because thats' "boring", feeling aggrieved when reality sets in "why hasn't civilization made the wilderness more like a garden park? Bothys should be everywhere!", and having all lessons blotted out by rescue "Other people will pick up after my mistakes, so my screwups were worth it".
@jammasterflash9448
@jammasterflash9448 2 жыл бұрын
A friend of mine, Mick Taylor, was part of the Mountain Rescue for this incident. The only time I’ve ever seen him get emotional was when we were out climbing and ended up on the plateau where he recalled that night. Sad times
@TextbookSadass
@TextbookSadass Жыл бұрын
This should be the top comment
@mihalyshilage5826
@mihalyshilage5826 Жыл бұрын
You should ask Mick about his time in Wolf Creek
@TheRealChristopherB
@TheRealChristopherB 2 жыл бұрын
I can't imagine the trauma of what the Raymond, the sole survivor of the group, must've gone through. Getting trapped with your school friends, in unbearably cold weather for multiple days, not knowing if you'd live or die. And when he did get rescued, the fact that it was *only* him to survive (outside of Catherine), oh man the survivor's guilt he must've gone through. Hopefully Raymond, wherever he is now, is at peace with the events of the disaster. Time heals all wounds, but the scars will most likely remain.
@asahelnettleton9044
@asahelnettleton9044 2 жыл бұрын
He'd be in his mid 60s now, if still living.
@SaltyAndSassy
@SaltyAndSassy 2 жыл бұрын
Spoiler alert! You should warn that you were going to comment the tragic ending. I was only half way through when I read this. Lol. It’s all good.
@rabbitttz
@rabbitttz 2 жыл бұрын
@@SaltyAndSassy don't read the comments first. What sucks is when watching something on your phone and the newer way of the comments., the top one can't be unseen bc its right under the video.
@BeeWhistler
@BeeWhistler 2 жыл бұрын
Yeah, I hope he understood that they huddled around him for a reason. They were willing to risk death to protect him. I always feel like if someone makes a choice like that you want to try and remember that this was what they wanted to happen even if they couldn't survive it themselves, and make the most of the life they saved.
@Not_Always
@Not_Always 2 жыл бұрын
@@SaltyAndSassy Something isn't called a "disaster" because it had a happy ending. Are you stupid?
@sylvester452
@sylvester452 2 жыл бұрын
imagine being the one surviving child, watching all your friends die - one by one - as they huddle around you to keep you safe. the survivor's guilt & PTSD must have been immense
@cherryontop1137
@cherryontop1137 2 жыл бұрын
The survivor probably wasn't noticing or watching anything at that point because of the delirious and numbing effects of the cold on the brain and the senses. Also, it's quite possible that the friends simply slipped into hypothermic sleep without making a sound or signaling in any noticeable way that they were dying. I guess this would be considered quite a ghastly "blessing" in a way. But, for sure, the survivor probably had years of therapy afterwards.
@jic1
@jic1 2 жыл бұрын
@@cherryontop1137 I don't know about that. I mean, I *hope* they got some help and support, but this was the UK in the '70s. They could well have just been told to suck it up and get on with it.
@cherryontop1137
@cherryontop1137 2 жыл бұрын
@@jic1 You're probably right. That's so heartbreaking.
@PoptartParasol
@PoptartParasol 2 жыл бұрын
@@cherryontop1137 though I'm sure in retrospect, for the boy, the trauma would be immense. Sometimes it doesn't take gruesome images to get ptsd, just the very fact of being the sole survivor is enough to traumatize the brain.
@adde9506
@adde9506 2 жыл бұрын
I doubt he was conscious, let alone coherent. But yes, it would have been mind breakingly awful.
@scottlarson1548
@scottlarson1548 2 жыл бұрын
This reminded me of the students who died here hiking Mount Hood in 1986. The teacher should have turned the group back once the weather turned bad but he thought it would be a good experience for them to hike in freezing wind and blowing snow.
@carlclark1757
@carlclark1757 2 жыл бұрын
Came here to say this. (If you’re not familiar, Google “Oregon Episcopal School Mount Hood disaster” for a depressingly similar story to this one.) And they said it was a character-building exercise…
@ghosttowntomato
@ghosttowntomato 2 жыл бұрын
@@carlclark1757 typical Baby Boomer behavior-- worst generation ever in human history. Caused more death and destruction than ever imaginable.
@hubertdenise3100
@hubertdenise3100 Жыл бұрын
Was he a Pe teacher by any chance? Mine in secondary school made us do Pe outside in winter in the rain, in thin summer time oe uniform because apparently we don’t need jumpers or coats in single digit temperatures.
@scottlarson1548
@scottlarson1548 Жыл бұрын
@@hubertdenise3100 No, he was the school's chaplain (it was a Christian school). He was not qualified to make life or death decisions.
@ninedaysjane2466
@ninedaysjane2466 Жыл бұрын
That's exactly what I was thinking. The similarities are uncanny.
@craignightingale8022
@craignightingale8022 2 жыл бұрын
A mate of mine once went on an expedition in Scotland with some friends from uni, in the summer, not in the Cairngorms. They had plenty of experience hiking in the English Lake District but this turned out to be NO preparation for Scotland. The ruggedness of the terrain and the changeable weather took it out of them, as did their inability to read the land. They kept getting bogged down in soggy ground, having to expend energy diverting around them, with by then soggy boots and the attendant blisters starting to form. This was in the days before people all had mobile phones or GPS handsets. After a couple.of days they realised they were well behind schedule, consuming more food than they expected, more tired and beat up than they expected to be. Thankfully, it dawned on them unanimously, almost at the same time, that they had to turn back. Scotland had kicked their arsed and they didn't want to become statistics.
@marielcalder103
@marielcalder103 2 жыл бұрын
Conversely my boyfriend and his mates, who did have experience in the Cairngorms, decided for a change of scenery to go hiking in the Lake District and came back suffering from sunburn! This was over 55 years ago. RIP to the young souls who lost their lives. 🙏🕊️
@Heligany
@Heligany Жыл бұрын
Yes it can be terrible out on the moors, especially after lots of rain, I was going out to my peat bank a few years ago and the track was flooded out so I figured Id go up higher on the bank... such a nightmare off the track, everyway I went ended in bog on all sides after a while I couldnt even work out how to get back to the flooded track- you start to think you are going to be at it for hours (cant imagine how much worse it would be if fog came down too- I could see the track and the edge of the village and I was still starting to get a bit freaked out).
@Charlie-hd8nr
@Charlie-hd8nr Жыл бұрын
Need a fire place fire wood and shelter and matches, these shelters need to be rebuilt plus more of them and located in positions where most likely needed.Very sad indeed Charlie from Aus . Scottish descendent early Aus history Macintosh.
@alistairmcelwee7467
@alistairmcelwee7467 2 жыл бұрын
Given the demonstrable effectiveness of the shelter in saving a bunch of kids, wouldn’t building more of them be a better solution rather than destroying the existing shelters? I grew up in the Ruahine mountain range of New Zealand, and we had shelters (called “huts”) dotted around the ranges. I’ve stayed overnight in these shelters during hiking trips. Having a place that’s clean and dry and has a fireplace can be life-saving. Our rule was that you always left it with another fire set (but not lit!) for the next person to arrive because they might be arriving an inch from death in cold wet weather, and a fire could save them.
@bravo795mp
@bravo795mp 2 жыл бұрын
This was my exact thought.
@hollycarey8426
@hollycarey8426 2 жыл бұрын
In America it would.get destroyed by vandals....sadly
@vulcanlogic4480
@vulcanlogic4480 2 жыл бұрын
It seems logical more would lessen the likelihood of this reoccurring. I see more and more nonsensical thinking by those who make policy.
@BjarniArnason
@BjarniArnason 2 жыл бұрын
Having the shelters can encourage hikers to be underprepared and rely on the shelter in case things go bad. Not having them excludes people from attempting it unless they are prepared for anything. It could make sense on hikes that normally are considered low-medium difficulty for super rare emergencies, but for expert level hikes you need to be able to survive whatever is thrown at you, shelter or not.
@vulcanlogic4480
@vulcanlogic4480 2 жыл бұрын
@@BjarniArnason As it should be. If there were no shelters, it should remain that way. But there were, and they helped more than they hurt. Ultimately, there are consequences for our actions and I feel it’s impractical to bubble wrap a world we don’t respect.
@unpunlievable
@unpunlievable 2 жыл бұрын
I'm a Canadian who grew up regularly experiencing -30c to -40c temperatures during the winter. Just wanted to add a bit about what it's like to do anything in temperatures that cold. Material gets stiffer and more brittle, including your clothes, jacket, etc, so that the fabric is 'snapping' when you move, and crinkles are held, making it easier for gaps to form at the edges. Of course, your extremities and exposed skin get numbed and stiff as well, making it harder to move and do anything. The moisture of your breath freezes on anything it touches, building up frost, and this can include your skin, eyelashes, etc. (my stepdad once got a mustache-icicle during winter pictures). As a kid I once lived in a rural area with a long driveway I would have to walk all the way down to reach the school bus. During the winter my mom would dress us up with tights on under our pants and snow pants for the extra layer. By the time I got to the end of the driveway my eyelashes and any hair poking out from my hat would be frosted white. There's no escape from the cold. You can tuck your hands in your armpits, but your body is already struggling to keep warm as it is, and you just end up with chilled armpits. The numbness cannot be understated. Exposed skin starts to feel like blubber. Doing anything physical for any length of time when you are in temperatures this cold SUCKS. It's just a hundred times harder than doing it in warm weather. These experiences are in safe environments, where I was able to get warm within an hour or two, and had proper winter protection. I've never experienced frostbite or being so cold I was in danger. Spending two nights in the open with a snowstorm on them must have been hellish.
@Abeardeen
@Abeardeen 2 жыл бұрын
I grew up in Duluth MN and have been up around Bemidji and Red Lake during winters and have experienced the same temperature range as you. If being in frigid winters has taught me anything is know how to layer for the temps and to never overestimate how long you think you can be outside until youre feeling like death.
@hairymotter5455
@hairymotter5455 2 жыл бұрын
Like you say, until you've experienced really low temperature mixed with ferocious wind your average person cant comprehend it. I was walking into a winter climb on Snowden a few years back and a group of lads started following us off the tourist path. We advised them to go back as one was wearing a t-shirt and drinking spirits but they didn't listen. We saw him on our descent looking bright red minus his t-shirt...crazy! It was cold enough higher up to instantly hurt if we took off a glove
@Walamonga1313
@Walamonga1313 2 жыл бұрын
Exactly. It's like asking someone to run normally underwater. It's just pretty much impossible to even move normally
@punkiller666
@punkiller666 2 жыл бұрын
@@hairymotter5455 sounds like that lad was on the final throes of hypothermia, getting rid of clothing and visibly distressed, maybe. Did he survive?
@nurwirawan
@nurwirawan 2 жыл бұрын
Wow that sounds awful, I live in tropical country and the coldest temperature I've experienced is 4 degrees celcius, that alone was cold enough to made my hands and face itchy
@CristinaF210
@CristinaF210 Жыл бұрын
I'm completely speechless, can't find words to describe the humanity of those children by trying to keep the youngest boy of the group alive, and to know he's the only who survived from that group it's beyond words, can't imagine how forever thankful his parents must have been ❤️💕RIP sweet souls
@dianeatkinson2015
@dianeatkinson2015 Жыл бұрын
I have a similar tale of unprepared teacher taking children out on mountains - we all (age13 maybe 12 of us)survived but very scared. It was Easter - March UK - a fairly local famous mountain with our English teacher and his wife 1976. Fine weather when we set off. Towards the summit a huge snowstorm whiteout set in - could neither go up or try to get down - sheltering under a cliff overhang for several hours getting colder and colder. Luckily it finally stopped while still light and we were able to make our precarious way down 2000ft to safety. Pre mobile phones - no-one knew we were up there.
@Me-qn7ig
@Me-qn7ig 2 жыл бұрын
As a Swiss mountaineer who has quite some experience (done multiple 4000m+ in the alps and the caucasus as well as doing winter mountaineering) I find it hard to overstate, how bad a whiteout can be and how much harder it is to move in high snow. Even today with GPS technology and modern weather forecast you can easily get lost (electronics don't like the cold) and get surprised by mountainous weather changes. Doing hikes in the winter should always be done carefully with consideration towards own experience, the experience of the participants, weather forecast, emergency shelters, optional paths, equipment etc.
@Z0RDR4CK
@Z0RDR4CK Жыл бұрын
_whiteout=_ there no longer is a back or forth, a left or right and you can just make about a difference between up and down. and as with most tragedies, there is always more than one reason as the cause.
@hallstewart
@hallstewart Жыл бұрын
Totally agree. Mountain snowstorms with high winds are extremely disorientating and debilitating and required great fortitude and strength to escape. The UK's mountains look benign and that is their hazard. Yes, we can agree that they should not have been out that day, but experience is not a guarantee of safety. Mountain guides and strong mountaineers have lost their lives in Scotlands mountains. There is no shame in being careful. Be adventurous, but also take the utmost care and live enjoy the mountains.
@nomoretwitterhandles
@nomoretwitterhandles 11 ай бұрын
@@Z0RDR4CK did you really just try to explain what a whiteout is to a SWISS MOUNTAINEER? 😂
@Z0RDR4CK
@Z0RDR4CK 11 ай бұрын
@@nomoretwitterhandles nah, but guess what, some people don't know
@prdurnion83
@prdurnion83 10 ай бұрын
Every mountaineering disaster that I've heard about always starts with "the party split into two groups." That becomes the point of no return, it seems. But I'm not a mountaineer, so I'm not sure if it's just standard practice to divide into groups.
@garrick3727
@garrick3727 2 жыл бұрын
The police Sergeant in charge of the rescue said this, which I feel rings true: “There was no need for the tragedy ever to have happened. To my mind, it was an expedition planned for the benefit of the instructors rather than the teenagers - it was far, far too ambitious for them.” What struck me about all this is the lack of experience. When it was noted that the 20 year old guide had lost the flares in the snow, that was a real face-palm moment. She was one of the survivors too. I was reading about the aftermath, and the 23 year old guide actually died while mountaineering 7 years later. The 20 year old moved to Canada, which is not uncommon for people in Scotland, but I expect she was happy to be free of reminders of the event and she has refused to talk about it. On a happier note, the small boy who survived went on to become a top competitive canoeist.
@carr0760
@carr0760 2 жыл бұрын
She fell asleep due to hypothermia and woke up buried in snow. It's not like she purposely dropped the flares. This was a failure of the organisation as a whole and the experienced leader, not the lesser experienced leaders who just did what they were told.
@garrick3727
@garrick3727 2 жыл бұрын
@@carr0760 They were inexperienced leading a group, that is the point. If they were experienced they would know how not to lose stuff. Why is it that If a corporation or government says "everyone is to blame so no-one is to blame" and "they were just following orders" we are outraged, yet people throw out those reasons in defense all the time.
@carr0760
@carr0760 2 жыл бұрын
@@garrick3727 I didn't say no one was to blame. I said the organisation failed. The girl was just doing her job. It was the organisation's responsibility to ensure they had staff who were capable of doing that job. The video even explained that when one has hypothermia they don't think clearly. She made mistakes due to her decreases mental capacity. Was she inexperienced? Obviously. Was it her fault that her employer sent her out on a hike she was unprepared for? No.
@garrick3727
@garrick3727 2 жыл бұрын
@@carr0760 If you watched the video you would know that the guides volunteered for this job. It was their idea to go, even with reports of inclement weather. This is what the police Sergeant meant. They never should have gone but the instructors really wanted to go. You can blame the authorities for not having the proper certification of guides, and that is fair criticism. However, my OP was about the recklessness of the guides. There is some basic level of personal responsibility that people need to have. Sure, your employer takes some of the blame for allowing you to do things you lack experience to do, but most of the responsibility is yours.
@mairheadc7013
@mairheadc7013 2 жыл бұрын
@@garrick3727 and don’t you think she’ll live with that guilt for the rest of her life? She didn’t intentionally lose the flares like you’re making out. She clearly did her best and it wasn’t enough, it’s the schools responsibility to carry out health and safety checks on any out of school trips. It’s easy enough for you to say this in hindsight, I’m sure they know now too.
@MichaelB-jw5po
@MichaelB-jw5po 2 жыл бұрын
So the plan was to just leave all of the younger kids behind with two less experienced guides in an area known for it's sudden, unpredictable inclimate weather and just assume they'd be fine?
@nowaround312
@nowaround312 2 жыл бұрын
This is probably the rationale for why they destroyed the shelters. The experienced group assumed the others would be fine because the shelters were around and everyone would supposedly be able to find one. When you know that nothing will be there to save you if you get into trouble, you're more cautious. You're less likely to leave inexperienced people behind and more likely to turn back before it gets to the point of being too late, instead of deciding to keep going in bad conditions based on the idea that you'll be able to reach a shelter.
@generaleerelativity9524
@generaleerelativity9524 2 жыл бұрын
Yes, his plan was to wait until they were all dead so he could steal their granola bars and trail mix. Then he can win the _"Ultimate Survivor Marathon!"_
@ianh1504
@ianh1504 2 жыл бұрын
Inclement*
@alerey4363
@alerey4363 2 жыл бұрын
and without even a radio equipment!
@prestonhanson501
@prestonhanson501 2 жыл бұрын
Well..uuaagh, yep. They wanted to save their own ass first. Go back later for the rest. At least they are safe right
@Inveterate-introvert
@Inveterate-introvert 2 жыл бұрын
I live just outside the Cairngorms and regularly hike there in winter. It never ceases to surprise me how many folks rock up totally inadequately prepared. Either people who don't do much hiking or hikers obsessed with cutting weight in their packs. I think, maybe because the UK in general doesn't get much extreme weather in terms of snow or cold, that people get a false sense of security. It really is a place where it's better to have and not need, than need and not have.
@johannesbols57
@johannesbols57 Жыл бұрын
But... they have their PHONES, don't they? 🤥
@macflod
@macflod 2 жыл бұрын
I live near the Cairngorms and when i was 14 was skiing there with my school on a weekend trip. It was a sunny calm day but forecast to get bad later and they said they may close the ski slopes mid afternoon depending on the weather. By mid afternoon we still had the sun and We skied down the slopes and got the lift back up, but on the return up one time there was a cloud coming down Cairngorm mountain. On the way up the lift we entered the cloud and it was insane. My teacher was right next to me on the lift and the wind was so strong i was shouting at the top of my voice and he could barely hear me! We could not see anything more than about 2 m as it was complete white out and some people had no goggles. Without goggles you cannot even open your eyes as the wind blows ice particles into them making them freezing and it impossible to see. At the top the mountain patrols told us they closed the mountain and we were some of the last to be allowed up as the weather changed so rapidly it caught them out- to illustrate how fast this changed, when we started on the lift it was still ok but by the time we were half way up they closed the mountain. They were accounting for those of us still heading up on lifts and making sure we got back down but my friend fell hurting his leg just as we were about to ski down. I volunteered to wait with him and a ski patrol member while they got a skidoo to stretcher him down. After i skied down with the ski patrol guy slowly as we could see much and about half way down we dropped out of the cloud and it was sunny and calm again! It was insane how fast it changed and how big a contrast a few hundred meter made. I learned how fast it can turn very scary and i saw how these mountains can be deadly. I always tell people going into the higher and remote mountains to really consider it if in October to april and they are not so experienced and in summer still pack a bag with cold weather gear and shelter even if its bright sunshine at the bottom it can easily be below zero with the windchill at the top. Sadly people are still killed every year in Scotlands mountains. I think the mountains relatively low altitude gives a false sense of security. Its important to remember Scotland has a maritime climate and the weather can change extremely fast. If anyone is going into the mountains please monitor the forecasts but always be prepared for bad weather regardless of the forecast and let someone know your route and expected return time. It may seem like overkill but it could just save your life.
@hubertdenise3100
@hubertdenise3100 Жыл бұрын
I went skiing in the Pyrenees when I was 13.Me,my dad, and my sister were going up to take the Panasonic route for the great view and long ride as it was the highest up, at over 3,000m.Well, we got up the first ski lift, then the second.However when we got up the 3rd, a thick snow storm cloud came in.By the time we got up it was nearly a white out.But we couldn’t take the lift down because there was none that allowed you too.We took the route, and several times it was near vertical.I crashed twice, and my sister almost went flying.Had fun but we called it a day after that.
@adamlea6339
@adamlea6339 Жыл бұрын
People don't realise the Cairngorm plateau has an Arctic tundra climate, it is only a little over 2,000 miles from the North Pole.
@nancyharman4795
@nancyharman4795 Жыл бұрын
I'm American and had never heard of the Cairngorms until I watched this video. All of the comments here have given me such an education! Sad to think it all arose from a recounting of tragedy, but I'll never forget what I've learned tonight. 😺💕🐾
@aurorawolfe6060
@aurorawolfe6060 2 жыл бұрын
interesting how they chose 18, 20, and 23 year old guides. in my eyes those ages are "kids" as well, in terms of overall life experience. though i will say i'm amazed at Catherine's bravery and determination.
@skipintroux4098
@skipintroux4098 2 жыл бұрын
Just like the bulk of armed forces who are encouraged to kill each other in wars. Sad.
@almenajamband9206
@almenajamband9206 2 жыл бұрын
Don't forget about William, he was 15 and tried his best to help.
@hitrapperandartistdababy
@hitrapperandartistdababy 2 жыл бұрын
My exact thoughts. Im 23 And I would not give someone my else the responsibility of that many young kids.
@jacobl4699
@jacobl4699 2 жыл бұрын
@Puppy Power that’s a very large assumption there pal
@darianzielinsky3284
@darianzielinsky3284 2 жыл бұрын
They are kids.
@Rogue_Leader
@Rogue_Leader 2 жыл бұрын
ALWAYS walk to the speed of the slowest - everyone has to get home.
@WangleLine
@WangleLine 2 жыл бұрын
This!!
@RuminatingWizard
@RuminatingWizard 2 жыл бұрын
Always walk the speed of how fast you need to walk to survive.
@PoptartParasol
@PoptartParasol 2 жыл бұрын
@Gi Gi I unexpectedly laughed at 'it's a casual hike, not an escape attempt', while probably not intentional, thank you for giving me a laugh after such a grim story
@baronvonhoughton
@baronvonhoughton 2 жыл бұрын
If you eat the slowest then everyone gets a warm meal and the group speeds up
@FeedScrn
@FeedScrn 2 жыл бұрын
This is what happened, at least for Katherine's group. It's the usual scenario.
@1JamesMayToGoPlease
@1JamesMayToGoPlease 2 жыл бұрын
The thought of the larger kids surrounding the smaller one to try to keep him warm is heartbreaking, considering their fate. These were good kids...
@chasitydeanna4861
@chasitydeanna4861 2 жыл бұрын
The kids all huddled around the smallest one of the group, and he managed to survive… What great empathy humans are capable of 💗
@jamsstar2010
@jamsstar2010 Жыл бұрын
Pack survival
@sdraper2011
@sdraper2011 2 жыл бұрын
Wow, as a hiker myself I don't think they should have destroyed the shelters. I'm kind of surprised they did.
@lumindoesvideos
@lumindoesvideos 2 жыл бұрын
If anything, they should've added more of them.
@aleksandralis9134
@aleksandralis9134 2 жыл бұрын
No it is very danger opportunity. You think that you have some chance, some help but it isn't helping
@sdraper2011
@sdraper2011 2 жыл бұрын
@@lumindoesvideos I agree!
@jackiecooke1851
@jackiecooke1851 2 жыл бұрын
I was also surprised that they did. Kind of expected the opposite to happen because of the disaster.
@johnr797
@johnr797 2 жыл бұрын
@@aleksandralis9134 wtf are you talking about
@pickles3128
@pickles3128 2 жыл бұрын
Who the heck thought this was a good idea? 15-year-olds in waist-deep snow overnight? And then they demolished the emergency shelter the surviving group used...
@RealBradMiller
@RealBradMiller 2 жыл бұрын
Can't have the people being TOO safe.
@nicholasschroeder3678
@nicholasschroeder3678 2 жыл бұрын
Made no sense to me either. "They pushed too far because they knew the shelter would be there. So let's just get rid of the shelters." Uhhh, I thought the Scots were famous for logic--Adam Smith, David Hume. Well, that was long ago.
@flexygoo1295
@flexygoo1295 2 жыл бұрын
Yeah the idea of demolishing the shelters is baffling. It's the same as removing fire extinguishers from buildings so as not to encourage staying in a fiery building....a very british form of logic I just don't understand....
@ajmatt574
@ajmatt574 2 жыл бұрын
@@RealBradMiller I get the logic of why they demolished it, but it’s also extremely stupid logic. If all hiking groups start out from one place, just post a sign saying turn back if weather conditions worsen if you’re too far from the emergency shelter: don’t push forward. If they ignore that warning, then that’s on them.
@Vid_Master
@Vid_Master 2 жыл бұрын
@@nicholasschroeder3678 There are probably more variables not detailed in this video. Every shelter will require safety checks and need maintainence, so it could be due to cost, to me it would make sense to build more of these shelters... but there are probably 20 reasons for and against.
@tedthesailor172
@tedthesailor172 2 жыл бұрын
It's incredible to think that a group of inexperienced school kids were venturing up on the Cairngorms with bad weather forecast, no matter who was guiding them, and that they had no emergency rations, no camping stove to make a hot meal, not even a flashlight or a whistle - which each person should've had - just one pack of flares that couldn't be found. This was a disaster waiting to happen...
@RachelAnn
@RachelAnn 8 ай бұрын
Right! In those conditions, they should have each been carrying a days worth of food and a whistle/flare/flashlight.
@nashsmith3005
@nashsmith3005 Жыл бұрын
The would be a terrifying situation for an adult, unimaginably terrifying for those poor children. I must commend them. Even in such a dark, cold situation they huddled together and kept the smallest among them warm. I think of them as heroes very good on them for doing what they could.
@Isobibbel
@Isobibbel 2 жыл бұрын
The smallest child survived with his fellows huddled around him to keep him warm. Imagine the survivors guilt with that!
@thebrowns5337
@thebrowns5337 2 жыл бұрын
Depends on your outlook. Why feel guilt when you didn't ask for it but people chose to help you, no doubt fully understanding their predicament at that stage (they couldn't move)? Plus, huddling kept them all warm...better than staying apart, so they helped themselves as much as possible. Feeling guilt would not change the outcome at all. It would just waste the precious gift those helpers chose to give. Imagine they could see you - think they'd be miffed you were wasting their gift by feeling guilt. Feel gratitude...that is what they'd want. Sorrow too - but don't let that shape you in a negative way. Use it for something good. Change lives for the better. Always stay positive. Life sucks for all of us at times but you have to make the best of it. We all die at some point, no point spending the time alive feeling guilty, sad, sorry. Do what's right but have fun doing it.
@ShadeSlayer1911
@ShadeSlayer1911 2 жыл бұрын
@@thebrowns5337 I doubt you can simply logic away something like survivor's guilt.
@imjustcleaningvents1090
@imjustcleaningvents1090 2 жыл бұрын
Btw he became a pro canoeist after he grew up
@synthsol5522
@synthsol5522 2 жыл бұрын
Imagine being the last survivor covered in dead bodies just waiting to die yourself
@grahamjarman
@grahamjarman 2 жыл бұрын
guilt? i think u mean thankful
@ThereIsOnlyTheOnePJC
@ThereIsOnlyTheOnePJC 2 жыл бұрын
Those bothies should have been upgraded, not demolished.
@samhouston1288
@samhouston1288 2 жыл бұрын
The idea that you should get rid of something that is potentially lifesaving just because SOME people might not use it correctly is beyond stupid. I wonder how many lives those shelters have saved over the years.
@MarsJenkar
@MarsJenkar 2 жыл бұрын
@@samhouston1288 They likely saved the lives of the part of the group that reached it, for one. They should have made more of them, not less.
@LoriCurl
@LoriCurl 2 жыл бұрын
Do we have those in America, I wonder??
@samhouston1288
@samhouston1288 2 жыл бұрын
@@LoriCurl In some places, yes. For example, the Bering Land Bridge National Preserve has a few emergency cabins in case visitors encounter storms or otherwise adverse conditions.
@gnarthdarkanen7464
@gnarthdarkanen7464 2 жыл бұрын
The only net benefit from the review is seeing to it that "Leaders" on hikes of children are certified to an agreed upon standard... You're ALWAYS going to have a few people who push themselves harder than they should. It may not result in some huge tragedy like this, but over the time, any GAINS in emergency aid is worth the investment... I'd suggest instead of demolition, upgrade the standards... A signal light or phone added to each bothie would've been relatively cheap to install and maintain, and would expedite the odd occasions any other hike (no matter the group or organization) runs into trouble... ;o)
@angelofdusk13
@angelofdusk13 2 жыл бұрын
Catherine is a goddamn hero. Imagine walking, then crawling in snow until you literally collapse. And she was STILL able to tell them how to find the kids.
@epic0505
@epic0505 2 жыл бұрын
@@jdhitshine That may be so, but if she hadn’t pushed that far they probably would’ve found 6 dead instead of 5
@emmacook5286
@emmacook5286 2 жыл бұрын
i think Ben was more at fault - he devised the plan and was the qualified mountaineer.
@TGIFjuuustkidding
@TGIFjuuustkidding 2 жыл бұрын
@@jdhitshine She did rescue someone though, so by your definition, she’s a hero. It was only one, but a life was still saved because of her.
@jdhitshine
@jdhitshine 2 жыл бұрын
@@TGIFjuuustkidding , she rescued herself. Even the 18 yr old assistant died along with the 5 children. You don’t take a group kids hiking, have all of them freeze to death, then get called a hero. Catherine, 21 at the time, doesn’t consider herself a hero for this tragic accident.
@sam-psonsmith9951
@sam-psonsmith9951 Жыл бұрын
So, if i take a bunch of kids out to sea, ignore safety regulations and common sense, then end up sinking the boat so everyone is drowning now. I am a good swimmer and make it back to shore. Does alerting the coast guard about the kids drowning really make me a hero? Sure i was swimming for hours and barely made it back to shore, but you could argue i did that to save my own ass. Does calling for help and telling them about the kids and where to find them really make me a hero? To me the hero is the adult that brings all of those kids back home save and sound. because they used common sense and turned back around when the weather shifted.... To endanger teenagers and have them die on your watch makes you a hero?
@-meinjuaco-6439
@-meinjuaco-6439 2 жыл бұрын
Honestly one of the hardest of your videos to take in, in my opinion. Hearing such things happening to kids is painful, genuinely soul breaking
@Traderjoe
@Traderjoe 2 жыл бұрын
Demolishing the shelter is like eliminating toilets to discourage people from venturing too far from home.
@SoramimiKeiki
@SoramimiKeiki 2 жыл бұрын
Or demolishing hospitals to prevent people from becoming ill or injured. The logic ...
@robokill387
@robokill387 2 жыл бұрын
He explains it in a misleading way, the shelters weren't good shelters, they were badly designed death traps that had been installed illegally and frequently became completely buried and unusable in heavy snow, a wide range of experienced hikers and experts agreed that they should have been removed.
@watchingitallhere
@watchingitallhere 2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for the insight good to know.
@deprofundis3293
@deprofundis3293 2 жыл бұрын
@@robokill387 thank you, exactly
@raerohan4241
@raerohan4241 2 жыл бұрын
@@robokill387 In that case, they should have been replaced by proper shelters instead of being removed entirely
@maverickstclare3756
@maverickstclare3756 2 жыл бұрын
They were 500 yards from shelter too. Catherine Davidson's legs were locked into a kneeling position, her hands were frozen solid when the helicopter crew found her. The spot where they were stranded is called Feith Buidhe
@saladasss2092
@saladasss2092 2 жыл бұрын
oh shit, that means she lost her limbs
@baronvonhoughton
@baronvonhoughton 2 жыл бұрын
@@saladasss2092 I lost my sock
@ah7027
@ah7027 2 жыл бұрын
@@saladasss2092 possibly. its not impossible that they couldve saved them. would be curious to know though.
@sirridesalot6652
@sirridesalot6652 2 жыл бұрын
@@saladasss2092 No she didn't. She recovered and later moved to Canada, She doesn't talk about the Cairngorm Plateau ordeal. Article here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cairngorm_Plateau_disaster#Davidson's_group
@davidsirmons
@davidsirmons 2 жыл бұрын
That man, the lead hiker should have been criminally charged. That's unacceptable he got away from the deaths of those poor people without so much as a fine, let alone prison.
@ExplodingPelicans
@ExplodingPelicans 2 жыл бұрын
Amazing to hear you talk about this. Just last week, my dad and I were hiking along a similar route (Ben MacDhui to Cairn Gorm) as part of a camping trip, and he told me about this incident. He even pointed out to me where the Curran bothy had been. He was ages with these kids and a keen mountaineer even then, so it was interesting to hear his recollection, then to hear this. The mountains are extraordinary, particularly the Cairngorms, and I would encourage anyone to visit and explore these incredible landscapes. But please, above all else, take care of yourself: there is no such thing as being overly cautious. (And on a lighter note, take midge spray if you go to the Cairngorms. You will need it.)
@Drew_Eden
@Drew_Eden 2 жыл бұрын
We had a great outdoor club at my school. I was lucky enough to go on two winter weekends in Glencoe in 1981. We were the first school kids in Edinburgh to be allowed on a winter trek since the Ainslie Park disaster. We were only allowed to go after a lot of training and were finally allowed after being given the nod by one of our teachers who was an ex military PT instructor.
@ingloriousbaxter
@ingloriousbaxter 2 жыл бұрын
This one is particularly heartbreaking because it wasn’t caused by greed, or systemic negligence. Just inexperienced young adults guiding even less experienced children. I can’t imagine the pain the survivors felt
@mikeduggincom
@mikeduggincom Жыл бұрын
Systemic
@yosefshekelberg5433
@yosefshekelberg5433 Жыл бұрын
"systemic negligence" You people really need to stop regurgitating terms you were inundated with during your brainwashing.
@ingloriousbaxter
@ingloriousbaxter Жыл бұрын
@@yosefshekelberg5433 ………. Um…… what is it you think that term means?
@Eric-kn4yn
@Eric-kn4yn 8 ай бұрын
Painless death hypothermia
@erikakakakaperry
@erikakakakaperry 2 жыл бұрын
My mum went to this school and was in the same class as most of these children. She hadn’t been able to go on the trip as her parents (my grandparents) couldn’t afford it. She lost one of her best friends in this disaster...very sad, and not something she likes to talk about, even now. You covered this story so well! Thank you.
@7dustchickstar436
@7dustchickstar436 2 жыл бұрын
I really value the ways these stories, however tragic, are handled with dignity and respect. Very sorry for your mom’s pain and loss.
@paulmallery6719
@paulmallery6719 2 жыл бұрын
Too long of a hike with forecast bad weather.???
@yas-ob4hd
@yas-ob4hd 2 жыл бұрын
@Angelcynn Midgard same thing
@yas-ob4hd
@yas-ob4hd 2 жыл бұрын
@Angelcynn Midgard sorry you’re upset you got a response in a public comment section
@genosmith8020
@genosmith8020 2 жыл бұрын
Omg wow. Can u imagine what would've happened if she went. Wow..
@stephiebagley211
@stephiebagley211 2 жыл бұрын
The fact that the others huddled around the smaller one to keep him warm was sooo sweet. They didn’t think about themselves only, that’s the humanity I wanna see now
@festina_lente7655
@festina_lente7655 6 ай бұрын
🙄
@stephiebagley211
@stephiebagley211 6 ай бұрын
@@festina_lente7655 stay mad
@dumbpossum8461
@dumbpossum8461 2 жыл бұрын
The fact all the other kids had huddled around the youngest and saved their life over theres made me tear up. it warms my heart that even in such an unfortunate situation, where these children where so fearful, but still, in all the fear, and even with their slowed thinking, they chose to ensure they gave that kid as much warmth as possible and saved their life.
@brandonmilligan7706
@brandonmilligan7706 2 жыл бұрын
So their solution to the problem of not having enough emergency shelters was to demolish two existing ones instead of just adding more? Did i get that right?
@princessravendiamond4288
@princessravendiamond4288 2 жыл бұрын
Yeah, it doesn't make sense to me either
@GGhireal
@GGhireal 2 жыл бұрын
@@Stevie-J Thanks, this made me understand it better
@qx4n9e1xp
@qx4n9e1xp 2 жыл бұрын
Take these violent shelters off our streets! Only authorities should be authorized to have assault shelters!
@adamlea6339
@adamlea6339 2 жыл бұрын
The issue is risk compensation. Putting shelters up all over the place can have the unintended consequence of encouraging people into potentially hostile environments that they do not have the ability to deal with. Thus it can, in some situations, claim more lives than it saves by building more shelters. Rather like drivers driving more aggressively/recklessly when seatbelts were made mandatory because the seatbelt makes the driver feel safer, so they drive in a more risky manner, which is bad news for vulnerable road users (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Risk_compensation).
@petermartin9494
@petermartin9494 2 жыл бұрын
It makes perfect sense. People should be prepared and organized in such a way that these shelters are never needed.
@phils4634
@phils4634 2 жыл бұрын
I was stuck on Mt Snowdon when the forecast "clear weather" changed for the (very) worse during our descent back in the 1970's. Fortunately we'd planned for the very variable weather there and our 2-man tents provided more than adequate shelter overnight.
@SecretSquirrelFun
@SecretSquirrelFun 2 жыл бұрын
Wow, what an experience you had. Thanks for sharing your story 🙂🐿
@aliceheatherlogan
@aliceheatherlogan 2 жыл бұрын
I'm so glad you made it through okay! It's really no joke how fast things can change. I've been lucky never have been caught in anything too bad when climbing
@paulfloyd9258
@paulfloyd9258 2 жыл бұрын
I think that you meant Yr Wyddfa.
@elainesmith1200
@elainesmith1200 2 жыл бұрын
@@paulfloyd9258 thank you 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿👍
@lethallizard963
@lethallizard963 2 жыл бұрын
*Yr Wyddfa. It’s not called Mt Snowdon.
@roilresj413
@roilresj413 2 жыл бұрын
I'm a Scottish school teacher and I need at least 3 other in-school staff members to take my P6 class to the neighbouring park. Outside staff members such as play-leaders, adventure guides etc are not counted in staff ratios. The whole idea of sending a group of 15 year olds off into the Cairngorms with three camp workers who had nothing to do with the school, who were barely older than the kids, and who obviously didn't have a clue about the dangers of the hike they had planned is unbelievable. Sometimes risk assessments and head counts and staff ratios are annoying but my god am I grateful for them. You don't cut corners or take risks when you're responsible for children.
@mrroderick6110
@mrroderick6110 Жыл бұрын
I love these Fascinating Horror short documentaries. They are not too long but not too short that the main details don't get covered. For me it is also an encouragement to do further research and find out more. This particular story about the 1971 Cairngorm disaster is one I have looked at more. There is a newspaper interview with the young lad that survived which was made in 2021 and it tells us that the second leader Catherine went to Canada and has never been heard from since. The guilt must weigh so heavily on survivors, particularly if they are group leaders. As another person commented here, the decision by the leader to split the groups up and the let the strongest group go first was absolutely and utterly fatal for the weaker climbers. Keep these great documentaries coming. Thanks.
@deprofundis3293
@deprofundis3293 2 жыл бұрын
I've experienced pretty major hypothermia before. It is truly debilitating. I'm amazed Catherine did even as much as she was able to! Your body shuts down and wants to do ANYTHING except take action.
@tedthesailor172
@tedthesailor172 2 жыл бұрын
Yes, its extremely frightening if you've never experienced it before, as well as debilitating...
@borderlineiq
@borderlineiq 2 жыл бұрын
The point was, she was accountable for the risky decision to proceed a) when they were clearly told bad weather was coming, and b) when her group was lagging behind and therefore showing clear signs of being unable to handle conditions. That she fell victim to her own error is but a consequence of that decision.
@thefreedomguyuk
@thefreedomguyuk 2 жыл бұрын
Very true. I've been in a hypothermia situation, and it's weird what happens to survival instinct. Just getting so very tired, but it's really not too bad, it could be much worse. Let's just take a rest for a while..... The brain is simply shutting down for common sense.
@grahamjarman
@grahamjarman 2 жыл бұрын
@@thefreedomguyuk like how some people sit on a rock on everest and never get up
@deprofundis3293
@deprofundis3293 2 жыл бұрын
@@grahamjarman yes...I didn't go into detail, but I really don't think I'd be alive today if I'd been alone. As it was, I only really got to a functional level because I'd planned ahead (bc I tend to over plan to a fault, lol) and had a 24 hr emergency heat pack in my snowmobile. I think that thing saved my life bc I wasn't going to be able to get down the mountain unless I was conscious...and that wasn't going to happen unless I got at least somewhat lifted from hypothermia.
@dorian4534
@dorian4534 2 жыл бұрын
I'm curious if the hike was approved under the assumption/understanding that the most experienced "instructor" would be with the entire group the entire time. The fact that they split up at all in those conditions baffles the mind. Product of a different era?
@gnarthdarkanen7464
@gnarthdarkanen7464 2 жыл бұрын
I doubt it. It was always taught wherever I've been, and I'm 45... That's not exactly prior to 1971, BUT most of the elders who taught us kids acted (at least) like it was the rule for their entire lives. I've never once heard that it's a good idea to split, and ESPECIALLY never to split a group based on "experience" like that... You want more experienced hikers among the inexperienced, to help the leaders... That's also just common sense. No, this strikes me as a case of "Teenage and Young Adult" tensions changing the plans "on the spot"... ;o)
@Br3ttM
@Br3ttM 2 жыл бұрын
The experienced group was lucky, though. If the timing had been different, they might not have found the shelter before white-out conditions.
@Varangian_af_Scaniae
@Varangian_af_Scaniae 2 жыл бұрын
"Product of a different era?" Product of a better time, when the weak were thinned out by bad genes, ignorance, laziness and so on. Today everyone is coddled and soon we all have to stay inside 24/7 to be "safe".
@phantomsoldier497
@phantomsoldier497 2 жыл бұрын
@@Varangian_af_Scaniae that's a quite retarded statement. People have hiked safely for centuries, it was an avoidable tragedy caused by inexperienced guides that led to death innocent kids
@Varangian_af_Scaniae
@Varangian_af_Scaniae 2 жыл бұрын
@@phantomsoldier497 R-word, that's quite offensive toward Democrats. Either you are a coddled zoomer or you are one of the parents who coddles them.
@Kitsudote
@Kitsudote 2 жыл бұрын
Dude, this video (and the fact that I'm listening the spooky stories for the last 6 months) made me realize you should absolutely do these as well! Your storytelling and voice are so ripe for these 🖤
@kevinmhadley
@kevinmhadley 2 жыл бұрын
I remember this incident in the news. I live about three hours drive from Mt. Washington in New Hampshire. It is the deadliest mountain in America as it has some of the worst weather in the world an many people underestimate how dangerous it actually is.
@princessjen99
@princessjen99 2 жыл бұрын
Hindsight is always 20/20, that being said the fact that they had the more experienced guide go with the more experienced students makes no sense to me. Seems like it should’ve been the other way around
@gnarthdarkanen7464
@gnarthdarkanen7464 2 жыл бұрын
IF they absolutely had to split the group, yes... AND better than that, the MOST experienced hikers should've been split among the least, as well... That would give the most experienced guide a couple reasonably experienced hikers to designate duties upon, and the least experienced guide could even lean on the TOP students for help. She might've been reminded to keep control of the flares, or had someone to watch over them, instead of them getting lost in the snow... At the very least, they'd have let her know to keep trying to get the flares out, or find a signal mirror, a bright colored cloth or jacket, ANYTHING to raise visibility outside their half-assed bivouac... Never split up the group if you can avoid it. I don't care how badly personalities or experience differs... If you ever HAVE to, then do so very carefully... You have limited "experts" and few "advanced" human resources. In the field, every hot body around you is a resource. ...AND if you're ever lost, don't go stumbling around the countryside in the elements without a CERTAINTY of reaching a goal. NEVER EVER try it alone. No good will come of it. ;o)
@princessjen99
@princessjen99 2 жыл бұрын
@@gnarthdarkanen7464 Great response, well thought out and appreciated 😊
@royfearn4345
@royfearn4345 2 жыл бұрын
The less experienced group, and therefore the slowest, should have led, along with the more experienced leader.
@gnarthdarkanen7464
@gnarthdarkanen7464 2 жыл бұрын
@@princessjen99 Thanks... I grew up in the mountains, where the weather changes on the drop of a hat... I've also been out in the wilds on my own... It's how we were taught... Glad you got something out of it, and I hope others pick up the tips as well... If it saves even one life, it was worth tossing together... ;o)
@adde9506
@adde9506 2 жыл бұрын
I don't know... taking inexperience teens on a multi-day wilderness hike out in winter sounds like an all around terrible idea to me. It makes no sense to me that this trip was allowed at all.
@the_once-and-future_king.
@the_once-and-future_king. 2 жыл бұрын
How did this happen? Sans effective communication the whole group should only go as fast as the slowest member! At least put the most experienced leader with the inexperienced group if you have no option but to split up.
@nicholasschroeder3678
@nicholasschroeder3678 2 жыл бұрын
Yeah, I thought there was something really cold about the older guys leaving the younger ones far in tow. Seems callous.
@curbyourshi1056
@curbyourshi1056 2 жыл бұрын
My thoughts exactly. I'd have put the experienced group at the back.
@Vid_Master
@Vid_Master 2 жыл бұрын
They should have had a bathtub full of lard with them, in case of emergency
@reachandler3655
@reachandler3655 2 жыл бұрын
I thought that was really odd too. They should have stayed together and kept to the speed of the slowest. Really though, with the forecast inclement conditions, they should have adjusted their plans and stayed closer to safety. You cater to the least able/experienced of the group.
@kidkurmudgeon7015
@kidkurmudgeon7015 2 жыл бұрын
I think of this as "The Penfold rule" aka my legs don't know how to be as long as yours.
@june.hunter
@june.hunter 2 жыл бұрын
omg I cried the moment you mentioned their names. it was soo heartbreaking. Rest In Peace, young souls..🙏💔💔
@lizag9780
@lizag9780 2 жыл бұрын
Going on a campout bothy hike in Scotland in February. I feel so inspired.
@Rhymelie
@Rhymelie 2 жыл бұрын
Demolishing the shelters are not going to stop pig-headed hikers from pushing their limits, and this decision is massively dangerous. If they were worried about hikers pressing on for a distance deemed too far for safety, why did they not half that distance by adding another shelter inbetween? The one thing you can count on is that people will vastly overestimate their abilities, and now there are two less failsafes in place to save them from themselves.
@ovni2295
@ovni2295 2 жыл бұрын
You're right. They're trying to dissuade people, but dissuasion never works in the long run. Better to prepare for an emergency than to assume your plan to prevent one is foolproof.
@somedumbozzie1539
@somedumbozzie1539 2 жыл бұрын
I'll wager the ones who wanted to demolish them had never set foot out side a city, empty vessels make the loudest noise.
@paddyjoe1884
@paddyjoe1884 2 жыл бұрын
@@somedumbozzie1539 Actually there is a certain class of ramblers who are against shelters, bothies, paths and cairns. They feel it makes the landscape less "wild". This is why there are nearly no bolted routes or via ferrata in Scotland. Because this lot will go and cut the bolts!
@DemstarAus
@DemstarAus 2 жыл бұрын
There are still ashtrays in airplanes, because people are still going to smoke even if they're not allowed. I don't understand how making things less safe is going to keep more people more safe.
@Erin-rg3dw
@Erin-rg3dw 2 жыл бұрын
@@ovni2295 Agreed, especially if it's an area where the weather can turn quickly. You can prepare for many things, but the weather dropping 30 degrees and a snowstorm is hard to escape. When I hiked Mt. Washington, even though it was July, I still brought light winter gear because the weather is known to turn drastically in a short period. Even the best laid plans can go awry.
@brians654
@brians654 2 жыл бұрын
Never set off on any kind of expedition into the wild without a whistle. Simplest and most effective safety measure you can have. The first search party would surely have heard a whistle where her voice was inaudible.
@BennyLlama39
@BennyLlama39 2 жыл бұрын
I know it's probably unsafe (like being in a snowstorm isn't) but why didn't what's-her-face keep her flares in her coat or something? They'd be right there instead of buried in the snow.
@ah7027
@ah7027 2 жыл бұрын
@@BennyLlama39 she may have already lit used them and the snow had just covered them already. either that or you have to remember the cold would have messed with their minds.
@pamelaraney4654
@pamelaraney4654 2 жыл бұрын
That’s how Rose was found. Titanic movie.
@TheQuantumPotato
@TheQuantumPotato 2 жыл бұрын
Yeah, plus if you’re shouting for help you’ll lose your voice quite quickly. Whereas with a whistle you can signal for help pretty much indefinitely.
@sandybell4913
@sandybell4913 2 жыл бұрын
Thing is back then it probably would’ve been a metal whistle, and presuming it’s not buried under snow, it’d surely be filled with it (which would be hard to get out normally, even less with hypothermia). Also, at that temperature the whistle probably would have stuck to skin and lips no, and having a clear mouth to drink is probably better than a whistle surely. Also, it would have probably been to quiet still.
@russellcalvert
@russellcalvert 2 жыл бұрын
I visited the Cairngorms area several times as a teenager in the 1970s, but have never heard this story before! This is a good presentation of the events (except for the rather dubious introduction), but would have been even better with some animated maps showing the routes, shelters, etc.
@karenstubbs94
@karenstubbs94 Жыл бұрын
A great Act of Courage by a group of teenagers to save that boy. Medal worthy.
@ShadowXII
@ShadowXII 2 жыл бұрын
I've been survivor-level cold, and it definitely does affect your thinking. It makes you into an idiot who refuses to move.
@deprofundis3293
@deprofundis3293 2 жыл бұрын
Same...it's pretty terrifying once your senses start to come back.
@John72TB
@John72TB 2 жыл бұрын
Yep. Fell through ice and had to walk almost a mile home soaked to my armpits. Felt like the tin man without any oil by the time I got home.
@sirridesalot6652
@sirridesalot6652 2 жыл бұрын
@Tip Toe That's a fantastic way to speed up the onset of hypothermia.
@andrewkuebler4335
@andrewkuebler4335 2 жыл бұрын
I mean never split up on a mountain, that's just common sense right there.
@LunaHeartnet
@LunaHeartnet 2 жыл бұрын
Hiking alone is a quick way to get into serious trouble.
@nlwilson4892
@nlwilson4892 2 жыл бұрын
It is very common to split groups into more able and less able but usually with the lesser group taking an easier route. However, there is no reason to do that and then follow the same route, it should never have been done with children and so few adults and no way on earth should it have been done in bad weather.
@max10sheets01
@max10sheets01 2 жыл бұрын
I believe that group size is supposed to be min 4, max 7. Minimum size allows for 2 to go for help and 1 to stay put with a casualty. Going above 7 makes it possible to lose 1 and not notice.
@underwaterdick
@underwaterdick 2 жыл бұрын
I disagree, in large groups it is sometimes very important to split up. If they had not split up, there is a huge possibility that the whole lot could have perished. Yes, the opposite is true, they may have been spotted for rescue faster as a larger group. But larger rescues take longer. The issue here is the ability of the groups. When you split up, it is important to mix speed and ability, having all your stronger more experienced people in the advanced party is a problem. If you put some of them in the second party, they may eventually catch up with and be able to assist the first group. But if they don't, you still have the required experience and ability to keep a slower group safe. In the Cairngorms, you want to get as many to safety as quickly as you can. I have witnessed multiple rescues on various peaks and ridges. I have also got myself in trouble with changing conditions. You have to remember with rescues, that although helicopters can lift people to safety from some point, depending on conditions, quite often when rescues happen, despite a helicopter being used, some of the party have to walk out of trouble with the rescue volunteers anyway. The smaller a group needing rescue, the better.
@DerekScottBland
@DerekScottBland 2 жыл бұрын
How about just "never go up on a mountain" as common sense? I seriously do not understand these mentally ill people that not only have to put their lives in extreme danger for fun, but insist on dragging children along with them on their suicide run.
@malcolmabram2957
@malcolmabram2957 2 жыл бұрын
I have walked all the Munros and late one October was caught in a white out in a blizzard below Cairn Toul. It took my top quality down gear and absolute proficiency with a compass to get to safety. I remember having to just trust the compass as I could not see any thing, and realised I was getting cold and there was nothing more I could do. Talking school kids up on to the Cairngorm plateau in November with a bad forecast is crazy.
@lauragoodspeed7044
@lauragoodspeed7044 2 жыл бұрын
These poor children deserved so much better. Sounds like just the perfect storm of mistakes and not thinking culminated in a terrible end for them. Very interesting stuff.
@MidnightDarkness666
@MidnightDarkness666 2 жыл бұрын
One detail you missed is that the children's parents had no idea they were going up the mountains. They thought they were just going to the Laganlia Centre
@itsjustlaurel1531
@itsjustlaurel1531 2 жыл бұрын
One more horrific mistake made.
@russellfitzpatrick503
@russellfitzpatrick503 2 жыл бұрын
Frightening! That the parents themselves were unaware until the tragedy had already unfolded
@MidnightDarkness666
@MidnightDarkness666 2 жыл бұрын
Exactly. Imagine the grief.
@apkelly01
@apkelly01 2 жыл бұрын
In February 2018, a group of 40 people plus 2 guides, attempted to climb Ireland's highest mountain, Carrauntoohil. A 14km hike up and down Carrauntoohil can take an experienced climber 6 hours....it took me 9 hours and that was in summer. So the 42 started up Carrauntoohil but they hit bad weather, snowy tracks, darkness was setting in and the climbers were ill-equipped fir the climb, some wearing trainers. They called Kerry Mountain rescue for help. While getting them off the mountain, they discovered a woman injured with a head wound, on The Devil's Ladder. She wasn't part of the original group but a tourist who had attempted to climb the mountain solo. She was very lucky to be discovered, as she wouldn't have survived the night.
@shannonmc7090
@shannonmc7090 2 жыл бұрын
Hope she bought a lottery ticket.
@L.C.Sweeney
@L.C.Sweeney 2 жыл бұрын
@Daft Donkeys cool bro. 😎 where do you live? Arseholeland?
@boldanabrasevic3020
@boldanabrasevic3020 2 жыл бұрын
@@L.C.Sweeney I heard they have really big holes there
@ovni2295
@ovni2295 2 жыл бұрын
One thing I've always heard about this sort of situation is 1. Stay put, 2. Put up markers that will be hard to miss (e.g. make a flag) and 3. Do *anything* you can to make shelter. Dig a hole in the snow if you have to, it's loads better than nothing.
@FloozieOne
@FloozieOne Жыл бұрын
I love your episodes about the "small" disasters that one would never have heard of otherwise. The major news and videos only report on large incidents where many people die and ignore the lesser ones as not being "newsworthy". Thank you for ignoring this and telling us about these situations that were so horrifying for the participants and their families.
@inkyguy
@inkyguy 2 жыл бұрын
Always carry a loud whistle with you. Yelling will carry your voice only very short distance and will tire you quickly. A good whistle, on the other hand, will carry over a great distance and can help pierce interfering noise, and it requires relatively little energy or effort. Even a relatively poor child’s whistle is far more effective than yelling. A coach/referee’s whistle or large emergency whistle has always been essential safety equipment on my backpacking trips. They are cheap, compact and they can make the difference between life and death.
@bmfg100
@bmfg100 2 жыл бұрын
what really got me was that no one from the more experienced group attached themselves to the group with minors (ie people under 18) they all just assumed the second group would be fine. There should always be someone with actual, proper climbing experience among a group of the inexperienced.
@gnarthdarkanen7464
@gnarthdarkanen7464 2 жыл бұрын
In any "serious" outdoor activity, ALWAYS "pamper and cottle" the noob's... It's why they're NOOB'S!!! Look, "noob" or "green-horn" or "newbie" are NOT derogatory. Sure, there are seasoned experts out there who resent being designated "Noob babysitter", BUT those kinds of people NEED to be reminded that we ALL OF US started out as noob's, and some older, seasoned expert spent time with US under their wings, cottling and pampering us along the way until we got it figured out. I can hop on a 1000 cc bike and tear-ass around a track at 180+ mph, too... It's not my favorite thing anymore, but it used to be. I like hitting the winding state-routes at my pace and seeing the countryside... AND I have a 650 (recent buy) that I've already put 1000 miles on. BUT when I take noob's with me, I'm in the BACK of the pack... AND I let them have their space. We have a talk about "group conduct" and signals, and I make sure EVERYONE knows where we're headed and the route... That way, if someone struggles, or falls... I'm back there to come upon them. I'm "Battlefield Medic" qualified from the U.S. Navy... SO I can even patch up a sucking chest wound in a pinch... with some tape and a plastic wrapper... That's just how it's done. Let them have the ILLUSION of "being in charge"... AND I like to have at least a couple reasonably experienced and advanced trained riders dotted through the middle of the group... If and ass it separates, there's more than "just little old me" who can make sure everyone able actually GETS to each designation... AND someone else is out there to stop the "faster bunch" from splitting a stop before the last rider shows up or gets accounted for (in case someone just took a bad turn)... Personally, I just don't much like group rides... BUT someone took me under his wing when I was a "dumbass kid" back in the day. I was (VERY) lucky apparently. If I don't do my part to pass the knowledge and seasoning on for the next generation, this whole sport and craft that I love is going to DIE when I do. It's no different for hiking, camping, fishing, outdoorsmanship in general... ;o)
@bmfg100
@bmfg100 2 жыл бұрын
@@gnarthdarkanen7464 I absolutely agree with you.
@gnarthdarkanen7464
@gnarthdarkanen7464 2 жыл бұрын
@@bmfg100 Thanks... Every place I went on a "kids' camping trip" or similar, and there were almost always "junior instructors" or the like... They ALWAYS put at least 3 out of 9 SENIOR campers with them... to help out in case the instructor needed it... Anyways... thanks. I try. ;o)
@bmfg100
@bmfg100 2 жыл бұрын
@@gnarthdarkanen7464 I remember them doing that at summer camp when we went bloody canoeing in the local lake. how the more experienced group didn't get nailed with negligence is beyond me other than blaming the time period
@gnarthdarkanen7464
@gnarthdarkanen7464 2 жыл бұрын
@@bmfg100 Most of them were kids, and even the adult was young, likely too inexperienced himself to be considered much more than a kid... even if he was an adult... Authorities probably considered that they had a rough night and figured that finding out half their collective group wasn't going to make it was probably punishment enough... That kind of trauma is a scar for life... They'd likely talked about going back out to backtrack for the others... and the leader had assured everyone that "they'll be headed to a different place with a shorter distance to travel, they'll be fine." He'll beat himself up probably the rest of his days... ;o)
@abaker2302
@abaker2302 2 жыл бұрын
My dad always insisted while hiking & backpacking you only go as fast as your slowest hiker. Never ever split a group.
@ex-engineer6657
@ex-engineer6657 Жыл бұрын
Thanks for sharing this story of tragedy and warning. My father was born and raised in the High Sierra mountains of eastern California. After returning from the Vietnam war, he guided many family and Boy Scout backpacking trips into the mountains, with only one incident. A bear came through our camp one night, apparently attracted by my cousin's stinky feet! With one swipe, the bear ripped open the tent, sleeping bag, and Charlie's foot. I don't remember if there were screams or scandal, but the bear left immediately. Excellent first aid was applied, including my Aunt sewing his foot up with a small kit we carried for minor clothing repairs. Charlie was then carried to the Tunnel Meadow ranger station on an improvised stretcher and flown out to a hospital. Many other stories can be told about that trip, but suffice to say that the Scout motto to "Be Prepared" is not in vain.
@korbell1089
@korbell1089 2 жыл бұрын
Lets take a bunch of inexperienced kids on a long hike in winter, and just to make it more interesting, lets split the group up and send the most experienced ahead. What could go wrong?
@XaviMacBash
@XaviMacBash 2 жыл бұрын
"The U.k is a place of few wildernesses" Have u been to Birmingham at 3am?
@caroleevans3553
@caroleevans3553 2 жыл бұрын
Unnecessary comment
@XaviMacBash
@XaviMacBash 2 жыл бұрын
@@caroleevans3553 just making a joke
@clonbanincork
@clonbanincork 2 жыл бұрын
@@caroleevans3553 Newcastle too.
@ImperialistRunningDo
@ImperialistRunningDo 2 жыл бұрын
Wilderness or wasteland?
@yeoisa
@yeoisa 2 жыл бұрын
@@clonbanincork and Manchester
@a.rhoden7137
@a.rhoden7137 2 жыл бұрын
I love this channel!! Detailed stories about incidents in the past I was unaware of. Thank you!
@johnyoung3511
@johnyoung3511 2 жыл бұрын
April '71 and I was also 15 year old corporal in the Rossall School Combined Cadet Force Arduous Training Cadre. We were in the Cairngorms too, and also shepherded by two utterly incompetent masters who panicked and deferred leadership to us boys in a white-out on top of Ben Macdui. We roped up (luckily as we hit a bad cornice), we walked with a pilot on a bearing, we looked after our lads with exposure, we got off the mountain by glissading down the corrie. On another day, we bivvied on a frozen lake - whilst the masters found it too cold and absconded to a bothie without telling us. They were never criticised or sanctioned for their incompetent and selfish behaviour. What I'm trying to say is so called 'adult teachers' can be incredibly incompetent, repeat their mistakes and not be caught out until after a tragedy. I wholly blame the 'adults' in this. Cairngorm weather, and any high mountain range can go really bad really quickly and you don't want to be up there with 'leaders' who have nil experience and even less courage or sense. Should locked them up.
@tigereyemusic
@tigereyemusic 2 жыл бұрын
This was used as a story to try and disuade children and unprepared/untrained people from venturing out in winter when I was growing up in the Scottish highlands. Even when we got older and more experienced, we stuck to the months of May-August for any longer treks, and were very well prepared for even the shorter Treks outside those months. Sadly, it’s still an annual occurrence that people get stuck unprepared out in the Grampian Mountains. The number of people that get pulled off Ben Nevis by helicopter in December, some even without hiking books, is ridiculous.
@ramonamcmahon3248
@ramonamcmahon3248 2 жыл бұрын
Couldn't agree more, once up Ben Nevis, and two women in gold strappy shoes came past me, It was late October.
@hedkandicaine
@hedkandicaine 2 жыл бұрын
Used to work on reception in a hotel at Fort William. We had to get people going up Ben Nevis to fill in forms of next of kin ect in case they got into difficulty or worse
@BOOMAlHazard
@BOOMAlHazard 2 жыл бұрын
As someone rather inexperienced in tougher trips, my family and me only went up to the Snowgoose restaurant - that was totally enough for my Mum. Which is fine. Knowing your limits is a good thing, no need to push until someone might get hurt. I'm regularly hiking in the palatinate forest, which is nice and relaxed. Yet still folks go missing or get into trouble all the time.
@Scherzkeks4104
@Scherzkeks4104 2 жыл бұрын
Here in Switzerland we regularly get foreign tourists that attempt to go on alpine hikes in flip-flops and one layer of clothing. Crazy how unprepared people can be.
@davidjames2145
@davidjames2145 2 жыл бұрын
@@ramonamcmahon3248 I've seen much the same thing. And a young couple approaching me at a Munro cairn to ask to look at my map. 3,000ft up, no map and no compass. Now we have people thinking their bloody iPhone is all they need. Natural Selection is alive and well.
@EKGrant
@EKGrant 2 жыл бұрын
Im a girl guide leader and took a group of 30 girls to the cairngorms for a 5 mile hike and adventure weekend just before lockdown in March last year. Our group was supervised by serving members of the RAF, Navy and even Gurkhas! That's what you call prepared! I couldn't imagine taking young people somewhere like that without a good team all round. Such an awful tragedy. Lots of my family went to Ainsle Park and I'm so glad none went on this trip!
@captainsirjackchucklebutty6147
@captainsirjackchucklebutty6147 2 жыл бұрын
Wow. Thanks for posting. By 1980 I had qualified B.Ed Durham,as an Outdoor Education Teacher and held the MLC ( Mountain Leadership Cert ) I should have been working in those Centres professionally. but Thatchers cuts closed them down and I was stuck in schools doing my subsid subject. I was also very well qualified in canoeing and sailing. So was sickened when an unqualified 'instructor' killed a kid and herself doing a basic kayak session in Lyme Bay was it? I went abroad and set up a Centre for an International School and had 10 years of safe and adventurous stuff going on. It was VERY popular. We had great hopes for OE in UK . But my career was over before it had started. Such a waste Kids never even came close to being dead on my courses .
@BeardyBaldyBob
@BeardyBaldyBob 2 жыл бұрын
I hike in the cairngorms, and even when the forecast says it'll be good weather I always make sure I have everything I need with me to outlast a storm and freezing weather. To do otherwise is just stupid. Like the old saying goes, "there's no such thing as bad weather, only inappropriate clothes" I also have a funky bright orange emergency bivvy bag too. Like a giant waterproof bag with windows you can climb inside. Never once had to use it yet, which I'm actually kinda bummed about!
@scottsanburn204
@scottsanburn204 2 жыл бұрын
I really can't figure out how tearing down those,emergency shelters make things safer - Regardless I am glad that no further deaths occurred after this.
@lastofthe4horsemen279
@lastofthe4horsemen279 2 жыл бұрын
If there is no where to go in inclement situations one would turn back to civilization instead of pressing on to an inadequate shelter
@underwaterdick
@underwaterdick 2 жыл бұрын
It is a 50/50 logic. Having a shelter can be a lifesaver, but its true that people are then inclined to "push on". The benefit of a shelter which was not mentioned is that it gives a good point for rescue teams to start a search from if the rough location of people are known. Because it is the sensible place to head for when seeking shelter.
@lilheinz9496
@lilheinz9496 2 жыл бұрын
@@lastofthe4horsemen279 yea but they are supposed to be for emergency only correct? Can’t not have emergency protocols just cause some people will not be in actual emergencies when using the emergency service.
@YouRemindMeOfTheBabe.
@YouRemindMeOfTheBabe. 2 жыл бұрын
Go hiking in winter with no emergency backup plan and split into groups that are a far distance from each other. What was the leader thinking? I take the side of having emergency shelters for this very reason. They save the lives of people that unfortunately don't know what they are doing.
@TheBigLoomis
@TheBigLoomis 2 жыл бұрын
Nope, can't have that progressive thinking. Best let them realize they are in over their head and freeze on the mountain.
@YouRemindMeOfTheBabe.
@YouRemindMeOfTheBabe. 2 жыл бұрын
@@TheBigLoomis Wouldn't that be a pointless lesson for them to learn if they are all dead in the end?
@NinjaTyler
@NinjaTyler 2 жыл бұрын
Counter point, you push through harsh situations if you know there's safety just around the bend even if turning around would be the safer option. Like taking a dangerous short cut instead of going around a much safer longer way. Or pushing further on a hike because there's a river just around the next hill somewhere when you could just head back to the known water source just behind you a couple miles. Plus in whiteout conditions distance doesn't matter they could have been 5 feet from those shelters and it might as well be 5 miles away. Plus the shelter they were trying to get to was part of the area they got trapped in that was infamous for being buried in snow to the point the shelter couldn't be found die to the snow cover, even if they'd made it in they'd have been stuck unseen and buried under many feet of snow. If there's no shelters up at the top it makes you plan the hike better because you don't have a safety net.
@YouRemindMeOfTheBabe.
@YouRemindMeOfTheBabe. 2 жыл бұрын
@@NinjaTyler Mt. Everest is proof that people are going to do stupid things to achieve stupid goals regardless if there are shelters or not. People going up Mt. Everest hike past the dying or the dead with no care about them; some even drag them out of the way of the path with no intent on helping them just so the path is cleared. People come off the mountain with permanent black noses and ears due to extreme frostbite and near death experiences, but still hundreds of hard-headed people still go up every year to achieve a stupid goal. There are no shelters at all on Mt. Everest, hundreds of people have died or come near death on that mountain, and still people climb it every year. This proves that it's not shelters that caused the death of these hikers. It was simple ignorance and a worthless leader.
@kittysplode
@kittysplode 2 жыл бұрын
@@YouRemindMeOfTheBabe. yes, they'll just put up self-heating shelters that have tea and wifi. you know, keeping your mouth shut on the internet is an option. suggesting you know literally anything about this when you don't even leave your house is, well, that's ignorance, innit?
@johndoyle4723
@johndoyle4723 2 жыл бұрын
An horrible disaster. I spend a lot of time in the mountains, once on Cairngorm summit, I was feeling a bit unhappy about my situation{mist wind cold etc) and decided to head down when I saw a group of people walking up from the ski lift, totally inadequately prepared for their situation, they had taken the lift up, in summer clothing and sandals. Once had to sleep out in Nepal at high altitude in a tent for 2 days waiting for a snowstorm to abate, I cannot imagine the horror of overnighting exposed to the elements., horrible experience/death. Thanks for the video.
@festina_lente7655
@festina_lente7655 6 ай бұрын
Sure you did buddy🙄🙄🙄
@nicolad8822
@nicolad8822 5 ай бұрын
@@festina_lente7655You know loads of people go to Nepal these days? It not that uncommon. Far too many, leaving their rubbish behind them.
@WonderWhatHappened
@WonderWhatHappened 2 жыл бұрын
I've been to Cairngorms. Some of the most beautiful scenery in all of the world. I went in the summer and experience quite chilly weather even then.
@HuttserGreywolf
@HuttserGreywolf 2 жыл бұрын
I'd like to imagine that the the narrator is the crow in the channel's icon. A calm yet subtly eerie tone when talking about death, feels like the perfect voice for a morbid corvid
@MichaelStubbs
@MichaelStubbs 2 жыл бұрын
It's said that Corvids are pretty intelligent, after all. Some of them have been seen using basic tools to achieve goals, others have been starting KZfaq channels and getting on that bird hustle.
@miked7212
@miked7212 2 жыл бұрын
Me too!
@tadhgmcelligott3693
@tadhgmcelligott3693 2 жыл бұрын
Morbid corvid makes a great band name
@evilempryss
@evilempryss 2 жыл бұрын
"Morbid Corvid" would be a cool name for a death metal band! 😁
@Peannlui
@Peannlui 2 жыл бұрын
'Nevermore' quoth the raven.
@Overlord99762
@Overlord99762 2 жыл бұрын
There's one vital piece of equipment I'd say Catherine was missing that could've saved more lives: A survival whistle It's often overshadowed by just about everyone in terms of camping/bushcraft etc, and in cases like this, it's when it should be used
@waindalton8575
@waindalton8575 2 жыл бұрын
Catherine's group carried flares but "lost" them. Catherine herself evidently saw the rescuers' flares but couldn't signal back for that reason.
@Overlord99762
@Overlord99762 2 жыл бұрын
@@waindalton8575 But flares can go out and require a bit more effort to ignite, a whistle doesn't need too much energy so long as you're breathing
@madness3369
@madness3369 Жыл бұрын
@@Overlord99762 The sound of the howling wind would've drowned that out.
@Overlord99762
@Overlord99762 Жыл бұрын
@@madness3369 Or carried its sound
@DiZoSoMom
@DiZoSoMom Жыл бұрын
There’s a reason that’s one of the “six essentials” to always pack, as taught by the Scouts. My kiddos always take their whistles.
@Schm1dtstorm
@Schm1dtstorm 2 жыл бұрын
Absolutely floored by the decision to remove the shelters instead of making more / increasing accessibility.
@russellfitzpatrick503
@russellfitzpatrick503 2 жыл бұрын
Have spent many occasions walking in the Cairngorms, never in winter fortunately, but can attest to the statement that the weather can turn rapidly - having experienced snow in late June on one occasion!
@frog6714
@frog6714 2 жыл бұрын
Its amazing to hear stories about the Cairngorms, even if the story is horrible
@maxtew6521
@maxtew6521 2 жыл бұрын
I'm not going to pretend I was familiar with the place prior to watching this. Seems neat.
@MrFrazzles
@MrFrazzles 2 жыл бұрын
This is so weird...I'm literally staying in the Cairngorms right now, and when I was here last year I walked with my family up Ben Macdui, across the plateau to Cairn Gorm and down...pretty much the same route in reverse
@RuminatingWizard
@RuminatingWizard 2 жыл бұрын
@@maxtew6521 Seems neat? Death is so cool, huh?
@maxtew6521
@maxtew6521 2 жыл бұрын
@@RuminatingWizard No, like a national wildlife reserve and park seems neat.
@suspicioustumbleweed4760
@suspicioustumbleweed4760 2 жыл бұрын
Fascinatingly horrible
@WobblesandBean
@WobblesandBean 2 жыл бұрын
I can't even imagine the despair those kids must have felt, so close to salvation, yet being unable to do anything but watch as the rescue team just walked right on by...
@marksark1119
@marksark1119 2 жыл бұрын
Even in 1971, meteorology was good at forecasting a large snowfall as was depicted in the vid. Avid and well trained hikers would have balked at such a trek given the forecasted large snowfall. The disaster that followed was one of folly and arrogance when you add the untrained guides and 15 and 16 year olds that had no idea the arduous journey ahead.
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