All great history - thank you for sharing!

Later to the show here as well, I was a little curious about the wording engraved into the stock of mine. It has a bunch of rings on it. Likely an empty case pressed into it. Rather right shape but shots great as intended. Thanks for all the information.

Thank you sir, well said.

Amen brother, Peace be with you and yours

Thanks so much for watching and commenting. Glad you are enjoying the videos, and more importantly your rifles!

👍🏻👍🏻🇺🇸🇺🇸🔫🔫🔫🔫☕️☕️

Thanks so much for watching and being a subscriber. While I probably do have a general knack for articulation, it should also be noted that I have the advantage of scripting and editing my content. I write 70% of what I say before I say it, and then I edit out all of the parts where I still managed to sound like a bumbling moron.

Thanks man. I've considered it, and I do have 20-30 pages of text bumping around. My attention span is a little bit of a handicap however(20 minute KZfaq videos are a challenge in themselves), but who knows. Maybe one day!

Very cool. Those early M21s are certainly known to have disproportionately seen use in Vietnam.

@@Triangle26 Bob, my mentor, called her his "little g**k gun" and is being talked about 60 years later. I know the capture account. Bob died in 2008 from agent orange exposure. His widow called me to ask me if wanted it; his boys wanted nothing do with it. I flew to Atlantic City to get it. She declined money, l knew she would. l hid $400 under the candy dish with a note "for the boys.". That and the flight was every cent l had. Took it down, she went home in carry on. The rifle is original, right down to the too thick shellac on the stock and blood on the sling. First range trip, l cried. Just an ol' softy. Tell ya what, that rifle is 'dead on' (center mass)at 400 yds. Wish l could share photo of her with you. Bob 'grew me up'. I can speak for him and he'd get a kick out of you saying that. I do too. Mistin' up. Thanks, from both of us.... Old Guys

I really appreciate that. Thank you for watching!

Yep, couldn't agree more. I often find myself making firearm purchases *in spite of,* rather than *because of,* the items marketing. I agree with you about the Classic Type 56 Carbines being a great deal. Smoke and mirrors aside, they were selling mechanically and historically excellent rifles at a great price. If memory serves, I bought two for $648. If I could go back I would have bought four...

It’s certainly possible. It’s rare to know the exact history of a rifle, but in this case it is reasonable to suspect that a not-insignificant number of these rifles may have seen combat in Kosovo, and there are always additional possibilities.

Many thanks from across the pond!

Thanks very much 🙏

Thanks man 🥸

@@Triangle26 keep it. It’s you!

Thanks for checking out the channel, glad to hear you've been bitten by the "SKS Bug". As for your question, there are really a wide range of circumstances to consider, and one of the most important is time and origin of import. For example, there were *many* 1969 rifles imported in the Albanian batch I describe in this video. If your buddy picked up his rifle from a primary market vendor (Bud's, Classic, Sportsman's Warehouse, etc) in the past couple years, that's a pretty strong clue that they came from Albania. In that case, the conflict it would be most easily tied to (or at least in the proximity of) would be Kosovo in the late 1990's.

@@Triangle26 thanks for your reply! I’ll have to look into it a little further, It was from FOC in Canada, couldn’t see where they got this batch from. Thanks for your help!

It’s prudent to note that there are more than 600,000 11-mil (1966) Type 56 Carbines. It is quite literally the most common SKS variant on the planet!

Thanks so much for subscribing - I'm glad my little marketing trick paid off. A few great questions here, so I will try to hit them in order: 1) Of rifles that were imported from China to the United States before the 1993 ban, I suspect that an *extremely small* percentage *may* been involved in the Vietnam conflict. These would have been rifles manufactured in the 1960's, delivered to North Vietnam, recaptured in the Sino-Vietnamese war of 1979, and reintroduced to inventory in 1980 just in time for the big export waves. Unfortunately, identifying such rifles would be next to impossible. The most likely candidates would be early "M21" variants showing signs of heavy use along with commercial Chinese export marks, but even then there would be alternate plausible explanations. 2) In more general terms, tying specific rifles to specific conflicts in an imperfect science. Many people turn to heavy wear and signs of use, which is logical, but really not reliable. Armies train in the field, and training creates very "authentic" wear patterns. Usually what *I* look for is inventory marks, "trench art" (usually in the form of regionally specific nationalist slogans), damage caused by bullets or shrapnel, or in very rare cases - distinct rust (or even more reliably, stain patterns in slings) consistent with blood pooling. 3) I am unaware of any importer legitimately claiming to have a batch of VC issued rifles. 4) To the best of my knowledge, China sent dozens upon dozens of arms shipments to Vietnam, beginning in the first Indochina War, and escalating rapidly during US involvement. I don't know what percentage of firearms were Type 56 Carbines, but I do know that China sent Vietnam nearly 2 million small arms over the course of US involvement, with multiple shipments occurring every year. I believe these included a combination of new and previously inventories weapons - and the scale is such that pretty much anything that could have happened, probably did. 5) Liking videos and posting a comment feeds the algorithm (as best as I understand). I'm not aware of, nor asking for any support beyond that! I hope all that helps. I sincerely appreciate your support and interest in these topics!

Forgot to ask what do you think of the Chinese fiberglass stocks?

Thanks so much. A friend of mine was teasing me because my old logo looked like it was made in Microsoft Paint, and when I told him that it actually was, he felt so bad for me that he whipped out a better one lol.

@@adamrule9435 The Chinese fiberglass stocks are legit. I’m a sucker for wood and steel personally, but the fiberglass has its place. Technically I believe that they aren’t actually fiberglass, but rather fiber infused phenolic resin. I won’t claim to really understand this distinction, and I’m definitely guilty of contributing to the confusion on terminology here. The drawback to these stocks is that they are noticeably heavier than traditional catalpa wood stocks, but they are definitely *far* more resistant to the elements. My “paratrooper” model wears a fiberglass stock and I consider it to be a pretty real advantage, because I go out of my way to abuse that rifle - and it can take it. Most importantly (to me), they are a genuine Chinese military product. There is debate as to whether or not they actually saw any real use, but they were definitely developed concurrently with resin based Type 63 stocks as part of an individual weapon system improvement package, so it wouldn’t be considered an “incorrect” component on a Type 56 Carbine. A very cool option for those so inclined by the function or aesthetic of the product.

I really appreciate that. I feel like I probably need to build up my credibility by a couple of... orders of magnitude... before aspiring towards collaboration. That said, I have enormous respect for Atun Shei Films as a researcher and historical content maker.

Sweet. The PW Arms (Redmond WA) rifles did indeed come from Albania by way of an Austrian company called Limex, and it very likely was in cosmo since at least the late 1990s!

Thanks for watching!

I have a 52 too, they are common for some reason, chrome lined barrel, matching but no magazine. Amazing blueing for a 70 years old.

@@stoegerstewie8351 Yea, mine's in such good condition I feel like it's a referb, but I have no idea.

@@jerdog333 Look for the slashed square on the buttstock or receiver cover, kinda faint but should be there.

@@stoegerstewie8351 A "slashed square" indicates it's a refurbished rifle? Interesting. That you for that!

Thanks very much for commenting! Crude "force matching" of parts is not at all unusual on Russian examples, so I wouldn't worry about it too much - it is very likely original as it left Russia. Either way it sounds like its in great shape, and that's what really matters right. Stoeger Stewie is 100% correct that a "slashed square" is an indication of Soviet refurbishing. It can often be found stamped on the receiver cover, near the date and Tula Arsenal mark! Thanks again!

Very interesting, thanks for sharing. I had forgotten about those 2013 imports. I assume it came through the same import chain as the recent batch, but I could be wrong.

There are a few possibilities here. Here are the two most likely: 1) Your bayonet may be installed upside down. While not always immediately obvious, Chinese spike bayonets do have a “top” and a “bottom”. Try dissembling your bayonet assembly, rotating the spike 180 degrees, and reinstalling. That may resolve your problem. If it does not… 2) You may have the wrong type of locking collar (probably an early Russian one that got thrown in) or a worn out spring. These are relatively cheap replacement parts, and will most likely fix the issue.

There we go. I think I saw a news story about the 24th MEU at the US embassy in Tirana when I was in elementary school. Thanks for watching Devil.

@@Triangle26 I enjoy my "Tour of Albania" Type 56 almost as much as my memories of that float. Keep up the good work, /26\!

That makes sense! I wasn't following the 56-1 AK builds and TT-33s super closely, but that's very logical. It would also support the notion that they did indeed know exactly where all this stuff was coming from, and deliberately chose to conceal that from consumers... Either way, oh well! I'm not going to complain too loudly - they were all awesome firearms made available at reasonable prices.

That’s a Swiss 96/11, an immediate predecessor to the K31! I’m a huge fan of both rifles.

The legality of it all is quite interesting to me. It may be that the importer got an ATF letter designating a batch as Curio and Relics, despite not all of them being 50 years old. The ATF can recognize sub-50 year old firearms categorically, such as the CZ-82 for example. I did see at least a few 1970 production rifles in the batch that Classic sold in 2019, which means that they did not legally have defacto C&R status at that time.

I really appreciate that. Thanks for watching.

I've wondered that also. Hard to imagine there aren't a few bunkers packed with a hundred rifles and quarter million rounds of Chinese ammo...

I do intend to cover that in greater detail at some point. For now, the short version is that everything I say about the “Classic” rifles (imported by Foxtrot Lima Enterprise) is also true of the PW Arms rifles. Public US import records show that a Austrian dealer (Limex GmbH) sold large quantities of small arms to *both* Foxtrot and PW Arms simultaneously, with maybe 60% of the total inventory going to PW. Limex is known to have purchased their inventory in Albania. It’s therefor *almost certain* that all the rifles left the same Albanian warehouses at the same time, and any differences between the inventory received by one importer versus another purely reflects the Chinese tendency to group rifles based on year of manufacture.

@@Triangle26 I guess my question wasn't asked very well. Is PW Arms a current importer or were they doing it back in the 1990's or earlier? I live next to Washington state and they are so anti-firearm I found it odd for someone to be doing business in that state. Thanks for taking the time to respond and thanks for all of this great info!

@@lucky-rowe2623 Oh, understood! Thanks for clarifying. I don’t have any info on that off the top of my head, but I’ll put it on the list for the future!

Great to hear, thanks so much for watching and commenting.

Assuming that your rifle was imported within the past 10 years: -It can essentially be guaranteed that it was part of the Albanian aid program. -There is a moderate likelihood that it may have been involved or at least proximate to the Kosovo war in some capacity. -There is no evidence to indicate involvement in any other aid program or conflicts.

@@Triangle26 Thanks!

Exactly.

If not I understand

triangletwentysix@gmail.com, happy to take a look

I know this one. 906, also known as “Chengdu Electric Machinery Factory” or “Chengdu Motor Factory” was set up in Chengdu, Sichuan, China. The factory was set up under Soviet supervision, and as the name suggests, they mostly made engines. Factory was built in 1958 and went operational in 1965. The factory was restructured and relocated in 2006, but remains in business to this day as “Chengdu Weijing Motor Company”.

Yep, lots of horror stories with Classic. I've personally always had good luck with them, but I seem to be an exception. They definitely shoot themselves in the foot with dishonest descriptions. I'm no businessman, but it's hard for me to believe that they wouldn't place a greater emphasis on customer satisfaction.

Hmm, that's curious. I can't say for sure - there are a few possibilities that jump out at me. If you want to shoot me an email with pictures at "triangletwentysix@gmail.com", I can probably tell you for sure.

@Triangle26 sorry. I was being lazy. Took it out of the stock and it's chinese.

Awesome. That’s a phenomenal rifle for the price. As to what the Chinese jungle stocks are made of: fiber reinforced phenolic resin. I think.

@@Triangle26 "" I've figured out how the Federal Reserve works. I think." - Albert Einstein. The mystery meat the Chinese used may never be exactly determined. Your take on it is about as close as anyone has ever come since I first saw one of those, in the 70s. I have got my stock to just about but not quite fit. I may actually take it to a gunsmith for that. This SKS will end up being a very solid and good.looking rifle.

Interestingly, I was educated on this a bit by a very helpful Chinese-American viewer… Jianshe means “construction” and is the proper name of the State Arsenal 296, which is located in the municipality of Chongqing. My notes have the proper name of State Arsenal 816 as “Jianfeng Chemical Corporation”, so sounds like we are on the same page there!

@@Triangle26 nearly, i misremembered Jianshe as being the regional name! yeah i've done lots of digging into Chinese firearms. I collect Vietnam-era weapons myself, so far got a K-50M, Type-54 (pps-43), Type-53 (DPM) and have owned multiple Type-56 SKS' which i regret selling... got a Type-56 RPG-2 on the way right now, can't wait to receive that. Sadly, these are bit tougher to date than any other chinese firearm.

@@JustaGuy1250 That’s honestly a super cool collecting niche. I know very little about those weapons, but it definitely inspires me to do some reading. I’ve always been daunted by the legal obstacles associated with collecting subguns and machine guns, but man I’m always jealous when I see the collection of someone that has made it happen. Super cool.

@@Triangle26 well, throw in the fact I'm European and it all becomes a whole lot more shitty Cuz you see, none of these work anymore.. But hey, just glad we can still keep them even if they have been deactivated.. We've been close to banning them entirely way too many times already

@@JustaGuy1250 Ah, fair enough. Still extremely cool. Frankly their value as material history is what I find most interesting, and that’s not contingent on their activation status.

Thanks for commenting. To be perfectly honest, my personal opinion of CF is notably more critical than what I portray in this video. My intention was to stick to the facts and avoid watering down the historical context with subjective opinion. That said, I agree with your observations and share your skepticism. It’s happened too many times to be a coincidence, and their language is too precise to be unintentional. Frankly it all strikes me as silly, because this surely hurts them more than it helps them. The products will sell no matter how they describe them, so all they are really accomplishing is embittering a significant chunk of their customer base.

Gee, I sure thought I explicitly answered that question multiple times throughout the video. In case I'm going crazy, the key here is reading full sentences. Classic stated: "these are all very early rifles, ie. Pre Vietnam to Early Vietnam Era rifles *which probably saw use in that conflict* ..." The misleading part is in bold. Hope that clears things up!

According to my understanding of the Gun Control Act of 1968, there is nothing illegal about removing import marks from a Title 1 firearm, with the exception of an import assigned serial number. That said, import assigned serial numbers (like all serial numbers) are required to be placed on the regulated component of the firearm, which in the case of the SKS is the receiver. Therefor, Federal Law states that you are well within your rights to deface or otherwise destroy import markings on the barrel of any SKS which is not also a registered NFA item. Not a lawyer, but I’d say chop away lol.

@@Triangle26 I want to make a paratrooper.

I have noticed the same - and have had the same questions. As best as I can tell, Chinese economic and military aid was consistently flowing to Albania from 1961 to 1978. It’s unclear to me exactly what was sent at what time, but anecdotal evidence suggests that multiple large shipments took place during both decades. It’s also interesting to note that China was extremely involved in the development of Albanian production capabilities (the iconic extended length Albanian hand guard was actually designed at State Arsenal 296 in China), and that gives us some clues. I’ve read reference to at least 3,000 Type 56 Carbines being in Albania as early as 1962, but based on your observations, we also know that much larger quantities were still transferring well into the 1970’s.

😂

The rifles sold by Classic were imported by “Foxtrot Lima Enterprises, LLC”, sourced from “Limex GmbH” of Austria, who confirms that shipment origin was Albania. I probably should have mentioned that in the video - but the takeaway is that it’s NOT a matter of likelihood. It’s a matter of public record.

Nice. I just ETS’d, and not gunna lie, having to shave like a dork was like 51% of that decision.

Thank you! Phenomenally smooth and accurate rifle - honestly one of my all time favorites.

Very likely. Especially if it entered the country recently.

Funny anecdote - one of the most consistent things I have heard from Classic Firearms employees is that Ben is a great dude. I don't blame people for teasing him, he was the public face of a notoriously shady company, however for whatever it's worth, I hear that off-camera Ben is one of the most well-liked and stand-up guys that works there.

That’s fascinating, thank you for sharing. I’m always grateful to hear from people who saw these moments with their own eyes! While you were watching the breakup of Yugoslavia, I was still learning to tie my shoes.

@@Triangle26You're welcome. I had several 'interesting' and extremely educational postings during my 23-year career with the Foreign Service; which also included the former-Soviet republics, Central and South America and ultimately, North Africa.

I remember the M-39 days. Good times.

@@Triangle26 , Got 2 rifles a Sako n VKT both 1942 in very good shape.. be well.

Thanks so much for watching and commenting. That Cheers clip is perfect, if I was better at video editing I would definitely have included that!

It’s is lol, it means “historical authenticity”. Kind of hard to use without sounding like a dork, but a useful word all the same.

Absolutely. These rifles are indeed “Vietnam Era”, and when taken independently - it’s an accurate claim. When combined with the second half to that sentence, I think it serves a disingenuous function of falsely the rifles to the Vietnam conflict. It also feels prudent to note that the official dates of the Vietnam War are November 1955 to April 1975, so calling a Type 56 Carbine “vietnam era” is a pretty useless distinction anyway. It’s *true,* but it just doesn’t narrow things down in any meaningful way, because almost all Type 56 Carbines are Vietnam Era. Just calling them “mid to late 1960’s” production is so much more helpful 🤷‍♂️

@@Triangle26 if they're advertised as "60's" then they might get lawsuits if some guy gets a 1970's rifle. and well, they'll lose as in that case.. they lied with the "60's" advertisement. Vietnam era just sounds better and gives them loads of leniancy

@@JustaGuy1250Interesting choice of example, considering that Classic listed the entire batch as Curio and Relic eligible. Chinese Type 56 Carbines have not been specially granted Curio and Relic status, therefor they only earn this status by de facto upon reaching 50 years of age. 50 years prior to 2019 was 1969, meaning that Classic *did* legally attest to their rifles having been manufactured prior to 1970, they just chose not to make that explicit to the customer. In any case - we seem to agree on the core point that Classic lied about these rifles having been most likely used in the Vietnam war. They could have called them “Cold War Era” they could have called them “Space Race Era”, they could have called them “late 1960’s or earlier”, but instead they chose to say “Vietnam Era *and* probably saw use in that conflict”, which when taken as a whole claim, is demonstrably unfounded.

That’s really an excellent point, I wish I would have thought to mention that. Many people fail to recognize that shipping hundreds of thousands of rifles is *expensive,* which is why these military aid programs are so often abandoned. The US military technically still owns huge numbers of M1 Garands and M1 Carbines all over the world, but we’ve made it clear we are never coming back for them because we have no interest in paying the shipping cost to get them back! It’s true, about your ‘65. I keep my soul squeaky clean by remembering that owning the rifle is an act of remembrance, not endorsement.

@@Triangle26 Amin frate! Good point . Remembrance not endorsement.

If China had asked for them to be returned from Vietnam, Vietnam would have said "Make us. LOL"