right... like i dislike the entirety of season4, not just the finale. the "both sides are the same" sht annoyed me

Did yam really that ending all along or did he just copied it off last min because he didn’t know how to to end the plot

Whether someone likes ending or not, at least they can't say that Lelouch character and motivations are not consistent

@@anonimowelwiatko9811 doesn't bros goal and motivation change like 3 times throughout the show

​@@lilg6615 it was never consistent throughout the show, though, so the ending is consistent with the inconsistency and following rule of cool over everything else.

@@BobWillis-tw3nx BullSHIT!

are you r worded?

@@vsdariuss No, he is completely right. He points out a lot of issues I have with the series. Top of the list are time skips, and time travel. Time skip implies you are bored writing your own story as you could not think of anything important happening in your own narrative for years of the world. Time travel should under no circumstances ever be a mechanic in a series that has not set out to specifically explore it as a mechanic. Even in those stories that do, time travel is a problem that will make your story fall apart at the seams because it is constantly at the risk of being nonsensical. A series implementing time travel as a mechanic at the end of it (among many other mechanics) is nothing less than a deus ex machina to help you escape from your corner you have written yourself into. I think the theory in this video that Isayama was rushed actually makes a lot of sense. In my opinion, this story was heading towards a realistic world war type scenario but with the opposing sides having nukes (aka titans). It feels like that was a potential avenue for the story which would have been awesome and terrifying.

@@vsdariussare you n worded?

@@dodoheadofCentury Thats on you bro, and I think your point on timeskips is complete nonsense. Some of the best written stories like LOTR have timeskips. I do agree to an extent with time travel however. I hated AOTs ending at first but their are some points that I completely missed on my first read so I have an alright view of the story now.

@@LutherusPXCs Dude. Come on. Lord of the rings felt like time passage, not skipping. I call it a time skip because it feels like we skipped multiple important developments for key characters. That is not the case at all in lord of the rings when time moves forward, such as Frodo in the shire after bilbo leaves. He basically lives most of his life out. Why would Tolkien talk about that? Now you could say Isayama was doing the same. But there are some major differences. When we come back to Frodo he has barely changed as a character. Even after all those years he still admired his uncle for going on an adventure and thus his initial motivation for the story is in tact. You and I both know that is completely different from attack on titan. They move time forward which is fine if nothing major has happened. But then we got tons of flashbacks to the time that we moved past, almost to say that that period of time actually was important huh? Heck, all of the characters trajectories as characters completely changed, except Eren, maybe. Armin at the end of season 3 was queued up to be the next Erwin, in his own way but still. Armin after the time skip turns into Armin from season 1. For the runtime of the story Armin’s character arc was steadily chipping away at his indecision in high pressure situations. All of that gets flushed down the drain at the beginning of season 4 and we are back to square one. Mikasa, well honestly not much had happened with her except maybe her motivations being centered around Eren maturing a bit. You could say there was a hint of that, maybe. The point is it isn’t a time skip if nothing happens. It is a passage of time. We aren’t wasting the readers time by telling you about Frodo smoking a pipe and eating good food for 20 years (I don’t remember how long it was but it was a long time). With attack on titan you know that isn’t true. We never once had a flashback to Frodo during that time he spent in the shire. It was non relevant to the story. To the sequence of events it was relevant, but for all intents and purposes it could be summed up in a few sentences, which the story teller wisely decided to do. You’re comparing fresh apples to rotten bananas.

The problem is not having an ending already planned, the problem is maintaining it until the end of the fictional work. I'm sure that Isayama changed the ending at least 3 times, and when he chose "The Rumble", he didn't know how to get there either and made many other changes.

When you read the manga you are solely focused on the characters and the story. That's why there's a big contrast with anime onlys and manga readers.

manga really relies on dialogue and story. in anime you get a full sensory experience with music, voice acting, sound, movement, color, all that stuff. it's easy to equate the emotional experience of watching the anime to the quality of writing.

The above comments prettyuch explain it but there's also the fact that animeonlies watched the show with huge gaps in between. Manga readers had monthly discussions revolving around the newest chapters and how they affect the story. Manga readers just understood the story better since it was always fresher in our minds compared to animeonlies

Maybe they are just on a honeymoon phase? Give them some time to realize how they are wrong.

The ending itself isn’t horrible, especially with the anime extending the era of peace. The final fight with the founder Titan was cool. Even Eren wanting Mikasa to kill him was fine. But they ruined Eren and Armin’s character.

Amazing summarization, I'm baffled at how many casual viewers just turned their brains off and called this meme "peak fiction".

maybe turn you own brain on to understand the point of the story cuz nothing of what you said is true

​@@lionskill6246all ending defenders say "you dont understand the story" when its actually just dogshit, we get it. Its just not good

​@@TruePeaceSeekerThis is just factually true. Nobody misunderstands the ending, they just recognize that its flawed to all hell and back. Theres subversion of expectation, and then theres abandoning charactetization, forgetting plot threads, poor explanation, convoluted lore, contradictory writing, irrational descision making, ret-cons. The list goes on and the only reason ending-defenders are picking up steam now is because the anime has finally finished and the emotions are at a peak. People dont want to accept that their favourite anime ended on a weak note because they have invested over a decade into it. But once the honeymoon phase ends, so too will everyone's rose tinted glasses and itl go back to "lol remember aot's ending? 😂😂"

@@TruePeaceSeeker its ok if you don´t like it but saying that its is a failure cuz you dont understand it isn´t fair. judging off the comments no one has acually watched or read the show. if you really get it explain it to me and explain why it was so bad

i think isayama missed a huge chance with jean tbh. he should have written jean as the parallel and counterpart to eren - i mean its hinted at a lot in s1 that they cant stand each other bc they are opposites, but as the viewers we know that they are pretty similar in their temperament. isayama should have used jean as the character that both counters and mirrors eren during important introspective moments and should have tied mikasa's character development from toxic obsession with eren (which makes her selfless to her own detriment) to discovering true love with jean into this. this would have solved the whole toxic eremika mess. armin should have been the brain-y, kind dude that was less tied to the eren-mikasa trio but became more and more involved with characters like erwin and hange. in s3, armin should have died, erwin should have survived. s4 should have just been our guys going to war with the rest of the world and winning in the end, albeit it being a bleak victory with many losses (i wouldnt have even cared about my fave characters dying if the ending was like this and actually good tbh)

I think he did really well!! up to season 3 lol. in fact i think i read somewhere that he had an ending and scrapped after they cast reached the sea. personally, i would have liked if the story tried to do a pay off for Eren Kruger instead? what an interesting character and only to be brought up, like twice? just the complete retconning of his character by Ymir, Mikasa kissing Eren's corpse's head, the random okapi that massively gags Armin's mouth with its tongue... just so many choices made here, and why????

The original manga ending was fine to me and the anime ending was perfect. I recently rewatched it again and still love the last season most. The first three seasons were intriguing but season four was a masterpiece and it brings the whole story up to a whole different level than I've ever seen.

@@herbert1012 I am glad that you liked it. A lot of people liked last season of Game of Thrones as well and some people like the new Napoleon movie. Just because you subjectively like something does not mean that it is very good when weighed against other works of litterature.

I disagree. He could of wrapped up the ending a bit more tightly, but to pretend he shit all over his legacy is completely disingenuous. AOT still had a great ending imo.

@@lightinferno4490 In writing, ending is everything. As soon you say " he could have wrapped up the ending a bit more tightly..." you agree that the work is not great, just good. There are ,amy good worls of art around but only the brilliant ones stay the test of time, hence my comment about his Legacy. Salieri was a very good composer in his time, even more popular than Mozart. We all know whose legacy is better remembered though.

i know you're lying since one piece will only end if the sun burns out

As a man from the year 2100, the best ending is One Piece Shipudden

I agree with Shinsekai Yori. Spitting facts.

evangelion ending is not all that lol

@@anonimowelwiatko9811 It's such underappreciated masterpiece.

I agree that it wasn't just Mappa's fault for releasing such a bad adaptation on season 4 with amateurish CGI, weird models, OP and dialogue. The production committee is of fault for rushing them. Mappa can do incredible work when they have time and I hope they had time with Chainsaw Man. But Mappa accepted the AoT project, so it's 50% their fault. Mappa knew how loved AoT is, Mappa knew if they under deliver fans will complain. But fans were too extreme. They could have expressed their opinion on the series without sending death threats and actions like that. After all, people worked night and day for months without break to make those 12 episodes that 90% of the community trashed. Fans that don't like the Final Season can just not watch it.

@@luckyowl10 Is it just me that found season 4 to be good on all aspects? Sure wasn't peak Wit Studio AoT either but definatelly not horrible the way people are making it out to be.

@@mr.p215 people are just miserable losers who love to complain about things like this to find a reason for their own unhappiness.

@@mr.p215 Then you are certainly in the minority. The Marley arc was pretty decent (probably had Eren at his best post-timeskip) but everything after that was a contrived mess of character assassinations, nonsense plot twists and the narrative implication that genocide might be considered a valid answer in some subtexts. Just ew.

The 8 pages are the prologue to Adventure Time

He rly did not "not fell off" to begin with.

kinda fell off since the ocean

I think it was a homage to Evangelion.

I hope he doesn't 😡

ONLY. YMIR. KNOWS. don't question it 😂

the disrespect towards eren kruger still pisses me off til this day. isayama really made him fight side by side with the alliance against eren. like WHY would eldian restorationist EREN FUCKING KRUGER fight against eren yet alone fight against an attack titan ... as an attack titan himself?? that just goes against the attack titans' power ...

@@lunali7209 like i see where you're coming from and i have a similar complaint too. I wanted Eren Yeager to use the attack titan for what Eren Kruger wanted (liberation for eldians). Writing it so Eren only cared about Paradis knowing the sacrifices of Kruger and the rest of the restorationists and the current oppression of eldians globally, made me sad that he only narrowed in on Paradis. Fine, I get it, but also idk lol. I think Kruger fighting Eren at the end made sense because he didn't want the Marleyan Eldians to die? idk lol tbh, i think the ending was weird and there was no pay off to the second part of the third season imo

Eren did not care about revange anymore since in Marley arc. He straight up said that to Reiner in Liberio Just accept that this ending is just bad

thats fair however attack on titan was never mainly about characters and their traumas. sure those were important parts of the story and we got whole episodes that were character-centered but overall the story was about humanity inside the walls living in oppression bc of titans and trying to find out the truth and get outside of the walls. thats what we needed closure for. characters dying or surviving is all fine in aot's context given that a ton of important and loved characters did die in the entire story before too. the fact that they died but that the story went on to still be good proved that the story was never about singular characters. so the argument that this was all supposed to be isayama tryna send us a message about trauma is ... not working for me, sorry

Same 💯. When Jean, Sasha, and Connie and heck Even Armin killed fellow Eldians and people from Liberio is where it went downhill. Like it's so not their character. Could've been an "adventure/discovery route" instead of "political/genocidal route".

So basically your saying that it should have never moved past it's 1st act. Which is against EVERY story structure to ever existed 🤦‍♂️

@@paulmoses3381 It could've been like The Walking Dead, world-building. The outside world is suffering like them but have different tactics and not ODM gear. I think the discovery route is more interesting than dark/political/time travel stuff we get after that sea discovery.

Humans vs Humans change was great as it basically added extra layers to the story and saved it from being another generic monster/zombies/aliens vs humans story. But unfortunately, Isayama did not or could not write it properly.

@@arvi8843 i think the titans = humans twist was pretty compelling. it added a deeper layer into what seemed to be a simple monsters vs humans scenario. its just that isayama could not fully commit to it and gave us the fumbling arc

yea I would have preferred Jean with Pieck, like she's still wearing the scarf ffs. Jean deserved better than that

uh wtf Mikasa disserve better then that horse face@@pjrodriguez386

bro literally only cared about the ships xDDD

​@@link--wv6puby the end the entire series came to be about 2 toxic senseless ships anyways (ymir - king fritz & mikasa - eren) I see nothing wrong with it 🙄

If you geniuenly think seasons 1-3 could be written by an "amateur" then you are more delusional than eren

@@OBUNGUS487 Cope. You are the one deluding yourself that AoT was a great manga.

@@Nemesis_T_Type no

@@Nemesis_T_Type If seasons 1-3 were bad, people wouldn't be so extremely upset at the ending.

@@OBUNGUS487 as someone who has enjoyed the writing from seasons 1 to 3, they are completely amateur. It's still a very entertaining story but it's not exactly breaking the mould with anything. The guy knows how to keep people interested, but that's it.

The ideas are cool but just not executed well. Him giving up his humanity to achieve what he thinks is the correct goal is EXACTLY what I wanted from him, but doing it in this way undermines his basic character motivations. Why can't he just sacrifice something in the modern day and not cause a weird paradox? I basically just wanted the ending to be Eren wins, wipes out the world, but hates himself for what he has done and isn't happy after it all. Or maybe he even gets tried and killed by his own people for his crimes, and willingly accepts the punishment out of guilt. That would be a cool, bittersweet, melancholic ending that would satisfy people.

@@someguywhocanfly I guess one of the biggest reasons I forgive this is because of the titan curse being ended. Clearly it wasn't possible to make the 13 year curse go away. If it was eren would have tried that...but getting rid of both titans and the curse allows everyone on Paradise to live long meaningful lives. (I.e. Armin in particular). Furthermore historia being fed for the next titan generation ceases. Just wiping everyone outside of the walls doesn't accomplish these goals...which in all honesty is why I think it's ok how it ended... because overall it was more then just wiping away the rest of humanity to eren.

@@joshholleran9005 I mean he could have just accepted the curse. I don't think Eren was afraid to die. His obsession with Historia was not great writing IMO anyway, you could just remove it and then he kinda wouldn't care. If he and his friends saved his people, they could die knowing they did that.

@@someguywhocanfly I disagree...it was good writing because he noticed in season 3 in the cave that the world should have the chance to move forward, instead of sacrificing people to continue the titan lineage. I agree eren doesn't think about the curse concerning his mortality. But if he wiped out everyone beyond paradise, the continued feeding and passing of the titans and the founder would continue....forever. limiting the freedom of people on paradise. Again...I get it and I don't think Eren could just drop that. He wanted to give the island a chance to make their own destiny, not being shackled by the whims of others and societal norms (feeding people to titans) that he considered as a problem.

Do you need to keep feeding people to titans? What if you just don't?@@joshholleran9005

Hopefully

Copium

HopeChad, 2 weeks left

Comment didn't age well

@@gergelydeli4526 we fought, we seethed, we raged, we screamed, we coped, we lost

every ending defender pulls out stockholm syndrome as a wonder solution buzzword without understanding anything about it beyond "abuse = love"

Regardless, it's disappointing for a series to be so good for so long and only stumble right at the finishing line. It really wouldn't have been that hard to have a fairly simple ending that satisfyingly tied up the character arcs of the important characters. It could be Eren giving up and accepting his peoples' demise, or Eren winning and wiping out the world. The time travel stuff was unnecessary, explaining Ymir's origin was unnecessary, and the politics was actually underdeveloped.

aot was never about just eren.

Ending fucks up the story because if you don't like how it ends, you don't want to rewatch it/relive it/recommend it to others. It doesn't make whole story bad, I agree. It does take away a lot and changes perception of story itself :/

The journey is cool and is a big part of the story but.. executing a DECENT ending wraps up a good story.. you can have a banger of a beginning and middle but if your ending is bad.. it overshadows all the hard work you put into the first parts. FMAB and HxH 2011 have satisfying endings even tho hunter isn’t “finished” but we have 148 episodes of great story telling and a sincere final moment between gon and ging.

That’s a moronic take

what you said is true for slice of life or romance genres maybe. but not for sth like aot where everything is about "the reveal" and has been since episode 1. thats why theres so many plot twists in the story, bc we wanna know the truth

@@lunali7209 PLL was also nominally about it's Mysteries right from episode 1. But the disappointing way it ends doesn't take away form what I actually liked about the show. I liked AOT early on for it's character, by the start of the "Final Season" most of them are either dead and now acting completely different, that's why I dropped the show well before it reached it's end.

Plothole and retcons is objectively bad writing. And that's all AOT ending rely on: plotholes and retcons Your fellings about Isayama is completely irrelevant here. His writing flaws matter and people should point this out for future writers dont make the same mistakes and destroy their story like Isayama did. He still can fix it with a New ending though. But when he Still have meat riders acting like he is a GOD i doubt he will bother to fix this story

Seeing Paradis getting genocided by the outside world launching nuclear weapons on Shiganshina made me a hardcore yeagerist. Eren should have destroyed 100% of humanity straight to hell!

​@@purpleblastoise Did you ever read what Miss Kiyomi said to Floch? "Fight will never end, you will just make the world a smaller place." Aside from that Eren's death stopped them from living like Cattle. Eren himself wasn't a Jeagerist. The entire show Eren, Erwin and everyone said that "Conflict will never end."

birds don't wrap scarfs around people and even mikasa thanks eren (the bird) after

not everyone enjoys sappy cliche romance aot was never a romcom wtf is this

Because committing genocide is never justifiable and never makes someone part victim and hero. Time travel storyline is so unnecessary and introduces a lot of plotholes like Eren can change things that does not lead to violence. To say it's a crap writing after they reached the sea is an understatement. It's plot twist after plot twist for shock value and have forgotten the Armin and Eren character from S1-S3. Author singlehandedly destroyed both character.

coundn´t be fursther from the truth. there is only one single goal that eren has to achieve which is him being killed by mikasa. if anything else happens he cant achieve a good future for his friends and stop the titan curse. the "plotholes" aren´t really plotholes when you consider that the timetravel plotline helped eren to comme to the goal he had to achieve. i can explain all the twists and plotlines that make it so complex to you if you want, however all of them are thought out in full detail to lead to that one final ending which was perfectly done in the manga. thats also the reason why any aoe is stupid @@arvi8843

No, we understand it. It is simply dumb

the ending was changed lol iayama has said multiple times about changing the ending and how he wanted it to play out like the ending of the movie the mist

If Isayama said “ I still have doubts within myself if I did it right” I think it’s fair for people to critique the ending.

Ymir loving King Fritz despite him being massively abusive to her makes no sense at all.

Eren killed his own mom! WTF!?!

The bar is so low.... that's why authors just give us garbage endings

​@@starknight103 Not at all, it is very common.

@@Soulkinthehuman Stockholm syndrome is pseudoscience, it isn't a diagnosable mental illness and isn't on the American diagnostic and statistical manual which is used worldwide. stop making excuses for bad writing. If I had nickel for every time someone makes excuses for this pseudo-illness I would be the richest man in the world.

kzfaq.info/get/bejne/rt2fp91y3c-5dmQ.html&lc=Ugzd0YLAvn48bnq22d94AaABAg

Isayama is a woman then

How?

@@EdwardHohenheimthe ending is not great because of how they handled God

atleast they didnt retcon the mc at the end to fit the plot of the finale unlike aot.

Agreed. When I watched it from beginning to end, I failed to see why people loved it so much.

​@@Meianjuit is just unlike Isayama , author of fma knows to write correctly and has an ending without flaw

its garbage your just a simpleton lol

The ending was trash. Period. Isayama assassinated eren's characterization. How do you go from being someone who seemingly had a goal to accomplish to saying i don't know why i killed millions of people? If you are going to do something you know is wrong and you have already made up your mind, at least stand by your wrong. Then maybe people will take you more seriously. Armin was inconsistent in this final arc. He should be outraged especially since eren can apparently control outcomes and the latter lost his grandfather. Instead he punches him over dogkasa who aside crom combat is just not an important character. If Isayama wanted to make her more important to the story he should have built her up more. He did that with Historia so it's not as if he couldn't. Of he really wanted eremika to work he should worked more on their relationship dynamic. A slow build up of eren slowly starting to notice her more as the story continues. Instead we get zero signs of him being into her until the end!? Really!? That's not how you write romance and you don't need to be an experienced author to kniw this. It's why we say eremika is BS. Mikasa is a frustrating character to many because she got no development from start to finish. It's just eren despite the fact he treated her badly in past instances. And don't come to me with the age excuse. He didn't treat the other girls like that. Isayama wanted to make ger more important than she actually was when it was already too late. And the plotholes of this show! Why was Annie not punished, when she ruthlessly killed their comrades and showed no remorse? Why did Armin have feelings for her when she tried to kill him too after she was exposed? How did eren manage to get into mikasa's head in the last episode when Kenny told levi that the reason the Ackerman family was persecuted was because they couldn't have their memories erased or altered by the king? So how did that cabin scene happen? We don't even get a good explanation. If eren could somehow control events why didn't he save the people if his home town? He claims to care about eldia yet didn't finish the rumbling, which left 20% of the world's population alive. That is still a bigger population than eldia. And now an eldia without titan powers. As we saw in the post credit scene they rebuilt and attacked paradis. Meaning eren doomed his own people even with his frirnds being long dead. He knew about zeke's pkan with the wine but didn't bother telling the MPs? Pyxis who supported him wholeheartedly in the first season had to die so brutally and for what? Eldia would have better off had eren not been born at all.

"spent an incredibly long time talking to each of his friends" _everything happens in like 5 minutes_ _only armin's talk is shown_ yeah okay. horrible pacing or horrible writing (its both) also this video is an analysis on endings in general and the pressure of being a mangaka. its not an AOT specific analysis since there's plenty out there.

AOT ending is literally a carbon copy of Code Geas but worse. Its amazing how Isayama was lazy and just straight up stole the plot from another story And meat riders like you still want to defend this carbon copy as a "Masterpiece" 😂