That's your government in action

@@NSHorseheadSD70 It is also your government being bought and paid for by lobbyist. In this case the UP paying for the whole thing using backdoor deals so they could stop the SP from falling into any other hands other than theirs. So sad they were allowed to get away with this.

@@NSHorseheadSD70 before you get too mad at the government there would probably be one or two class one railroads countrywide if they let the railroads do what they wanted throughout their history. Also I just wanna add government doesn’t have to be this corrupt. There are plenty examples of governments in Europe and sometimes in the US actually regulating companies competently. Monopolies are a problem and we seem to be forgetting that.

Something similar happened prior to the Penn Central merger. The ICC denied every merger proposal from both the New York Central and the Pennsylvania Railroad, including one proposal that would see the New York Central merge with the Baltimore & Ohio. The ICC reasoning for the denials was again to avoid creating a monopoly. Yet they allowed Penn Central to be created which basically controlled the entire northeast. It cut off the railroads in New England and the former Anthracite railroads from the rest of the country, allowing PC to put them in a stranglehold if they saw it fit. Then they created Conrail to fix up their self created mess, which was itself a monopoly that was in full control wherever the Norfolk & Western or the Guilford System wasn't.

That's our beloved circus sideshow government, hard at work for us.

There's kind of a catch to this that any Californian will understand- Most of the state has not one but two major rail lines running through each corridor, often each town- one for the SP and one for the ATSF, this being a result of the SP's monopoly being broken in the 1870s. The SPSF merger would have resulted in a de facto monopoly in most places.

Who can screw your business And do it with glee Drive you to the point of bankruptcy The government can

@@SamAronow And with the UP takeover...there are a lot of places that had 2 railways that have an effective monopoly now.

This is not why the government shouldn't regulate monopolies. This is why: 1) Mainline Railroads either need to be publicly owned, cooperatively owned or public trackage, with private operations. 2) It was a terrible idea to prioritize automobiles over trains. 3) WHY WE MUST TRUSTBUST MONOPOLIES. Of course you can't trustbust a company that can only survive as a monopoly.

lol and years later union pacific is now a monopoly which is hilarious the icc is full of dumbasses if they approved this merger we would have more than 2 companies but no they where stupid i bet they where paid off by union pacific to deny the merger

All hail the STB!

​@@jacquesblaque7728: Haha! Government never willingly gives up power. They just shuffled things around

Oddly enough, the BN & SF merged the day after I was born.

@@rockguitarist931 Well, they tried. But oopsie.

@@jacquesblaque7728 At least the UP didn't get either of those railroads.

It's one of my favorite schemes in all of railroading

It looks like one of those spongebob popsicles.

@@braysfinds7479 LOL

I think I am the only person to cringe at the scheme. I love SP, I like the ATSF, but not together...

Kodachrome was nice and I remember the first one I saw... So clean and different from SF's blue/yellow war bonnet and basically grey with grimy white of SP. Yet still obviously stating the merger of the two.

CPKC Limited

If the SPSF was created, the company would have gone bankrupt. The merger was completely useless as both railroads served the same area, meaning that nothing would have changed

I personally think the UP Rock Island merger was just something the UP wanted to use as a bludgeon against the CNW who was their main business partner at the time. It wasn't too long before that merger that the CNW lost UP's passenger trains to the Milwaukee Road due to their horrible track maintenance which led to poor schedule keeping. I wouldn't be surprised if the UP really just wanted to keep the CNW in line by dangling the prospect of them losing most of the traffic they got from the in Omaha with the prospect of the UP being able to go all the way to Chicago. Considering that the CNW, SP and other companies bought the remains of the Rock Island after it finally went under, I doubt the deferred maintenance was a big enough issue for the UP to turn them down considering the CNW and SP were in far worse shape than the UP and they bought and rebuilt portions of the Rock Island. The Rock Island merger was also a missed opportunity for the SP as well. Frankly, the SP was the Rock Island's largest partner and would have been a better fit for a merger than the UP. I know the SP would have gotten more mileage out of the UP deal than they ended up buying from the Rock Island's bankruptcy sale, but as a merger goes, the Rock Island needed through traffic and the SP needed access to the Midwest and the Eastern Railroads. As much as I like the SP, I do think Don Russel and Ben Biaggini were not cut out for the times they faced. Russel was good at internal stuff, but seemed to lack the ability to look outward for other opportunities and Biaggini fell into the same trap the Rock Island and Milwaukee Road which was that the "only a merger can save us" trap and never picking a good partner. At least the SP unlike the Milwaukee Road and Rock Island didn't see the UP as their only option at that point in time, even though the eventually fell into their orbit in the 90s.

@@BuckeyeNationRailroader what would have changed was the lack of competition meaning lower expenses and higher fees.

@@jimwhelan9152 As opposed to today’s rail environment of 2 behemoths?

@@mspetersen just comparing SF and SP pre-merger to what might have been after a merger. Can't say how things might have shaken out after that. I do think railroads are naturally monopolistic in the areas they serve. It doesn't make financial sense to have to build 2 sets of rails, maintain them both with two sets of locomotives and rolling stock to transport goods that can be carried over one set of rails.

Agreed.

I miss Kodachrome film.

Shouldn't Paint So Fast

a continuation of the *Warbonnet* paint scheme for SPSF

Looks like what Sammy Hagar wore back in the 80's!!!!😁😁😁😁

something i want to do is get an ho 6 axle locomotive like shown (i don't really know many diesels so i can't say which one) and custom paint it into the spsf scheme, because in my opinion it looks fantastic

@@Kuhneesseur Likely an SD-40

@@Kuhneesseur I was also thinking of modeling some locos and rolling stock to the Kodachrome styled paint scheme for my fictional railroad on my digital Train simulator layouts. The diesels wouldn't look exactly like the Kodachrome, but would be similar in a sense where it could remind some people of the SPSF Kodachrome paint scheme. I think I'll do a test run when I do some reskinning of the game assets and see what I come up with.

The UP has dominated the SP multiple times, well back into the days of Harriman running the UP, hell under him the UP controlled the SP, much like the C&O controlled the B&O but didn't merge.

Espee for life

I plan to look for what happened to the pieces of the Rock after the Interstate Corporation Crusher split the Rock.

Maybe Hoover Vacuum Cleaners sucked up the fines.

The ICC also doomed Penn Central to an early demise by forcing it to take on the New Haven, who was in an even worse off hole the the Pennsy or the New York Central.

yeah by UP fucked up on a lot of things when they took over SP by not listening to how operations along the Gulf of Mexico were to be done in Texas. In some ways the CNW should not have been allowed to be eaten up by Union Pacific either. CNW should have been offered up to Illinois Central or KCS.

@@onrr1726 As we know now, the KCS and I.C. no longer exists. It looks like Canadian National is going gobble up the KCS. Funny thing is that the Union Pacific had coveted the Southern Pacific for many years before merger with them, but from a distance and during the Burlington Northern, Santa Fe merger talks, Union Pacific had thrown it's hat in to buy the Santa Fe which got the interest of some of Santa Fe shareholders.

@@rodcurry6387 Canadian Pacific is who bought and merged with KCS becoming the Canadian Pacific Kansas City railroad

@@stinkyroadhog1347 Thanks for the correction. I meant to say that the Candian Pacific is merging with the KCS.

PhoolB, I also grew up in Bakersfield and loved watching the SP and the ATSF. I went to Bakersfield High and would watch the SF trains pulling out to go to either Fresno or Tehachapi. Those were great times. Bakersfield was a great train town during the 1980's. USPOKWF

You're a champ! I like to hear when people model after the railroads they grew up around.

It's kinda sad that it died as it lived, just like the SPSF; ran and mangled into the ground.

That crash made us SP made us heartbroken cuz of the gas pipe explosion and train crash.

Dang it, you ruined your name by adding the trademark logo, thus making it unsearchable on KZfaq...

Coming from you Drayton, that is quite the complement. You my friend also have a fantastic production in Delay in Block.

Very interesting, thanks for sharing!

Yep

Lol now that's a good one

Came here for this xD

BNSF Better Not Start Family

@@krakenwoodfloorservicemcma5975 I would say everything except replace family with failing

Sorry that nickname is so awesome Ive got to steal it.

Lmao another TRUE Railfan

Take my like and get out of here

Railfan and Railroad magazine just did a cover story on "Shouldn't Paint So Fast"

@@AmbianEagleheart that's also the fact after the I.C.C. said "No Bueno" to the merger. It was the derogatory term for the SPSF merger, considering how many locomotives both roads painted before the ICC said no

Between the Penn Central failure, the Staggers Act, and SPSF, the ICC was not long for the world

It very well could

I doubt that CN will get KCS as they all ready have a Canada to the Gulf Coast route. Besides, Warren has 145 billion in cash that just collecting interest. He might decide to let BNSF make a merger offer.

We can only hope that the ICC tells them both Canadian roads to go fuck off! It's a monopoly that could bring anti-trust law suits for years to come considering that both CN and CP already connect both Canadian coast lines together. With CN owning the Illinois Central with access to the the Gulf of Mexico already. Allowing CN or CP access into Mexico it's self could wipe out cross border competition with UP and BNSF considering that most of the Mexican Railroads are already partly or fully owned by KCS I think the Mexican government would or should have a say in who owns what in with in their borders as well.

@@onrr1726 CN and CP both so coast to coast but do not service much in the middle.

@@lucasaccount573 that maybe and they should not be allowed to service anything in the American heartland.

Oh no doubt they've been doing that from the beginning. ICC is messy, every step forward they took with these mergers, they took 3 steps back as well. They could've allowed BN to take the Milwaukee/Soo/CNW. Then SPSF most likely would've taken place. Plus UP could've gotten KCS/MKT/GWR, giving it direct access to Chicago.

who benefitted? UP and BN from this happening. So when the decision came out of nowhere, you gotta wonder how much money swung in order to feed the poor politicians

Money talks BS WALKS

Haha! Clever!

It was the Prr side that took down Penn central. The Prr had been lossing money since the End of WW2. Only N&W RR stock divends Save the Prr

Penn Central spent most of it's time pissing it's money into nonrailroad properties. Even after Conrail came about many of the same assholes that helped bring PC down were given top spots in Conrail. The mergers that had been proposed were. Reading / Lehigh Valley. Norfolk & Western was offered Erie- Lackawanna, and the D&H but dropped both in favor of the NKP and Wabash. Boston & Maine should have been given the New Haven

@@onrr1726 Erie Lackawanna was also Offered to the Chessie system but the Erie Lackawanna unions turned it down. Stanley Crane Ended up firing a lot of x Prr management. no one from the Prr went on to become CEO or other rail roads. 3 from the Nyc went on to become Ceo of other rail road 1 Al perlman Wprr John Kennewick Uprr Mike Flannery Mprr

great topic ideas!

Isn’t the rivalry between the PRR and NYC still playing out on the MTA Commuter Rail operations? Especially with differences of the third rail on MN and LIRR.

it could have. It surely would have had a monopoly in Arizona and New Mexico.

John Schmidt went on one of the morning news shows the date of the ICC hearing, and said that there may be some abandonments. This was something that they had promised against in the hearings. They lost at least one commissioner because of that interview.

And probably NAFTA trade between the United States in Mexico being too close to the border running a monopoly through Arizona and New Mexico

Corruption is usually the answer.

@@historyboy08 It is fair to point out though, UP ended up with a 100% control of all Class One track in Utah at the end of all this with the final SP-UP merger; although that was alleviated by giving run through rights to BNSF through the state. So arguably that issue could have been combated with the SPSF by doing such to their competitors.

All locomotives but the rear 2 were scrapped

The rear most locomotive involved in the crash 7443 was also given the Kodachrome livery after the wreck, I forget when but it was sold to MRS logistica,a railroad in Brazil sometime in the early 2000s and is now the sole surviving piece of the disaster

RIP CNW😓

I remember back when I was traveling to several design conferences (IDSA) in the late 90s to Chicago and the East Coast via Amtrak, I saw so many (post-acquisition/merger) C&NW units - many with their nose heraldry pointing out their status as an "employee owned company". I reckon that part was soon painted over, not long after my sightings As someone born, raised & continuing to reside in the Puget Sound region and far more used to seeing Burlington Northern & Union Pacific liveries, I thought C&NW's was pretty sharp. If I'm not mistaken, I seem to recall that UP adopted the roofline "lighting stripe" on its units from the C&NW scheme - so it sort of lives on in spirit?

The SPSF merger attempt happened in the 80s. UP buying the North Western wouldn't happen until the 90s.

Don't worry when one of us comes to power we will make that change because it's just better!

@@amberlantern9328 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

Long live UP yellow!

@@TheMrPeteChannel Long Live the Warbonnet!

Well, that's the nice thing about model railroads. You're free to rewrite history as you see fit and get an idea what it would look like. My road, the Davenport Peoria & Western, is meant to be a joint venture between the Rock Island and New York Central for bypassing congestion in Chicago. The Southern Pacific is also heavily invested in it. This lets me run NYC J class Hudsons, Rock Island locos, and SP style steam all on the same layout. Incidentally, in this alternate timeline, all the roads mentioned are still going strong. Amtrak exists, but instead of replacing intercity passenger service, it supplements it by being a sort of broker, a third party to facilitate shared and run through passenger service.

As bad as the merger was for them, SP was already in big trouble before the merger as they made bad investments in other ventures besides the railroad and their traditional traffic base had disappeared. The part of their system that had revenue potential, Texas, was also viewed as inferior to the California lines. I’d say SP was ultimately doomed beforehand but the merger sure didn’t help

All true, what I meant was the SPSF merger(specifically merging their holding companies, which in hindsight was really really stupid) was the _killing blow_ to SP... not necessarily actual cause of their financial trouble. A straw that broke the camel's back if you will.

And good riddance to the evil SP. It was a horrible railroad on every level.

@@stephenshaw8466 With the saying of the nail in the coffin was SP was already in trouble before the planned merger with ATSF when the ICC had turned down the merger when the final blow came when those expected hearings to last a whole day but within minutes the hearing was adjourned when CEO's had a hard choice after an entire fleet of locomotives painted for a merger that wouldn't exist when they also had to sell one or both railroads when ATSF had been on their own until around 1995 when the ICC approved the merger between BN and ATSF to form BNSF. Even today when the fight between CN and CP over the right to acquire KCS when of regulators that approved the CN/KCS merger already has the few wonder what is to happen with CP.

@@daniellibich1376 - Yourrunonsentencewithoutanypunctuationwasdifficulttoreadletalonecomprehend

true

Well said!

Southern Pacific Railroad Internal Networking Telephony

Thank you! I'm glad it was informative.

@@peterdibble As a member of the US side. I concur with all points.

Thank you! ☺️