“Cobb was shot in the shoulder!” You guys are missing the point. They treated it like a character death in that it was the catalyst for our heroes being reinforced by the people of Freetown, who otherwise would not have gotten involved (as episode 6 states). The people of Freetown THEN strongly imply to Mando that he is dead. I don’t care if he was shot in the shoulder or shot in the foot. If you talk about a character like they’re dead, then don’t be surprised when the audience assumes they’re dead.

I was shouting "It's just a shoulder wound!" from the start. Boba had such sloppy writing it hurt.

"Somehow palpatine returned" genuinely made me burst out laughing in the theaters

I swear, Disney is being run by an AI by this point. Who in their right mind thinks that fakeout deaths is a sustainable writing practice??? Any audience they have left is going to wane out with every “whoops, guess [character] didn’t die”.

The Rise of Skywalker had seven fake-out significant character deaths: Palpatine of course, Chewbacca, Kylo Ren #1, Bubu Frik, Poe's love interest lady, Rey, and Kylo Ren #1. That's genuinely sad.

Big studios, especially in Disney, are so scared to lose a “valuable” character, that they’re willing to do crazy maneuvers to bring them back

I think part of the problem is that the initial deaths are unsatisfying. Personally I want Cad Bane to come back. But not because I want every character to be resurrected but because I don’t think he got a satisfying end of his character. He showed up for basically one episode of Boba Fett show but he’s such a massive character in the Star Wars universe. It’s a shame to waste him like this

"People die when they are killed " sometimes

Temuera Morrison has also advocated for the return of Mace Windu for The Book of Boba Fett season 2, and at this point, I wouldn’t even be surprised if that happens.

Don’t forget Ashoka. As cool as it is to see her in live action, she should have died on Malachor. Filoni introduced an entire other dimension and time travel to spare his character!

I would love to see a story where death is inconsequential, a temporary setback as everyone can be revived. People become overly cocky and throw their bodies at every problem. Then somebody finds out how to stop the resurrection and deaths become real

Fun fact: Boba fett’s scenes in Mandorlorian where he threatens Grougu (he literally threatens a child’s life to get his armor) is after the Tuskin raider ark.

Maul's resurrection made him my favourite character by far but they know they did it well and now they just think they can do it with every character because we want to see it. No we only want ressirections that build on important characters in meaningful ways - not immortal side characters

Looking forward to "The Book of Dooku" in which Dooku joins Luke's Jedi Academy because the Sith art of "magically reattaching your head" let him do that and he's just immortal now. Grievous, Padme, and Mace are there too.

When Doomsday killed Superman in the comics, there were 6 months without canon Superman comics. When "Doomsday" killed "Superman" in Zack Snyder's Batman vs Superman there was a credits scene making it obvious "Superman" was really still alive. Even with the same situation, there's a right and wrong way to do it.

For me it was bringing back palpatine the destroyed the sequels for me. It's not just there was no explanation, but it renders the entire Anakin redemption story meaningless. Indeed the entire Skywalker saga was declared meaningless.

Actually off the bat, no... I just thought Cobb got shot in the arm and was just fucked up from that. I didn't even think he needed to get a robot arm, just his arm would be in a sling for a while. I for real thought Cad just winged him to send a message as he's the one in charge. Deputy Dan tho... yeah he dead.

I'm still pissed off that they retconned Vader being the chosen one and made it Rey. Cause that's a cool idea right ? Just render six movies of character development and character arc essentially pointless and make it so the new Jedi who has only existed for three movies becomes the true savior of the franchise. I don't think I can roll my eyes enough to express just how garbage that is and will always be, as far as I'm concerned EP 7-9 are an alt timeline because they're too dumb to be kept cannon

“Im not dead.” “I feel fine.” “I feel HAPPY!” - Monty Python and The Holy Grail.

I've seen so many fake-out deaths that actual character deaths no longer have any effect on me, since when I assume a character isn't really dead, just missing, I'm nearly always right. This bit me hard when reading the latest book in one of my favorite series; one of my favorite characters died in a horribly tragic way, and I had no reaction because I assumed she was just comatose from blood loss and would wake up. Only two chapters later after she was buried did I realize, "Oh, she really is dead." I even wrote this to the author, and she was stunned at my reaction because she said she would never do a fake-out like that. I believe her, but it wasn't her works that are the problem: it's the cumulative effect of so many stories that tell us a character is dead only to bring him/her back. It's very frustrating. Every time a character is assumed dead by others, I always assume "alive" and I'm nearly always right. It's robbed fiction of a great deal of emotional impact.

Got to love how Rise of Skywalker does this 6 times! We thought Palpatine was dead, never mind he’s back. We thought Rey killed Chewbacca, never mind he’s still alive. We thought C-3PO lost all his memories (not a death but still), never mind R2 brought them back. We thought Kylo was killed from being stabbed by a lightsaber, never mind Rey can force heal. We thought Kylo was dead from Palpatine flinging him off a 15 foot cliff, still alive. We thought Rey died after fighting Palpatine, never mind Kylo revives her

Fakeout deaths have become so common that, at least once, I've seen what I now believe to be a true character death but at the time didn't believe for one second. When the credits rolled and the character was still dead, I was just confused by it. This is the worst-case scenario for fakeout deaths, for them to become so ubiquitous that the concept of death itself in media no longer has any real weight or value. I don't remember which character it was, unfortunately.

The thing with the character deaths is that it's an arms race between the real deaths and fake deaths, because real deaths want you to not call them out for being fake, but fake deaths also want you to think they're real.

The main reason character's deaths are not permanent nowadays is the fandom's BFs that rises everytime it happens. Like, "if MY character dies, I'll stop watching it!!!", it happens almost every single time, making studios never keeping deaths permanent in order to keep this whining fanbase in constant state of "this put a smile on my face".

In Infinity War all the deaths that weren't from the snap felt permenant but now loki vision and gamora are all back like nothing ever happened

I think the consequences of impermanent character deaths IS to a great degree objectively measurable. Investment is built on stakes, and as Jay Exci says "stakes are built on cause and effect" as soon as the line of logical cause and effect is broken, stakes drop. Fakeout deaths are an extreme form of this

I remember when Disney first obliterated most of Star Wars cannon that people tried to defend it by claiming that "oh they just wanted to get rid of all those Emperor Palpatine has a clone body stories and the messy dark side space Tyranid war" What a load of crap that turned out to be.

Historian note: Darth Maul was probably also a bit easier to accept because the video game DF2: Jedi Knight had established Maw - a dark jedi who was cut in half but nonetheless survived through sheer hatred and the dark side of the Force.

This is how I feel about Ahsoka in Rebels. She had a perfect conclusion confronting Vader, and then they just yoink her back to safety later on in the show with some random timey wimey shit and now shes just wandering the galaxy doing random stuff that has no bearing on her actual character. And now she's getting a whole unnecessary show that will continue to probably add nothing to her character. Disney writers don't know how conclusions work I guess.

Rey: I used two lightsabers to deflect force lighting Mace Windu, Obi Wan: You only need two lightsabers? I used one Yoda: Lightsabers, you need?

Moffat kept reviving characters during his Doctor Who run When he finally killed off a fairly major character, I didn't believe they were really dead until the of his writing run

Wait, people actually thought vanth was dead? HOW? That was clearly a shoulder shot, the most "character is hurt but not dead" shot ever

The Book of Boba Fett single-handedly derailed the train of good will that came from Mando seasons 1 and 2. Boba's character was utterly assassinated, Grogu's training was walked back because "he's the face of the franchise", and Cob Vanth and Cad Bane's death fakeouts proved Disney is willing to reverse any permanent consequences if a character might sell them more action figures.

Palpatine was brought back to life in the _Dark Empire_ comics, but unlike the new continuity, it did two important things: It established how he survived, and it made it clear that his revival wouldn’t be permanent. He’d have to transfer his consciousness into a new clone body when the previous one withered away just from using his powers, which was pretty often. As such, Anakin still fulfilled the prophecy, and while Palpatine "got better," rather than being fine, he turned from a dead man to a literal and metaphorical dead man walking.

Dark Empire did it in an interesting way because Palpatine came back and had a fake out death. But it was pretty much made clear that he had survived because he was both absolutely insane and the pinnacle of thousands of years of accumulated sith knowledge. He was a maleific spirit of a being that could barely be considered human anymore, burning through clones of himself every few months as he let the full power at his disposal flow throw him. While it was a little cheesy,it felt a lot more substantive then “somehow Palpatine has returned”

How would that be anyone's first reaction to that he clearly got shot in the shoulder especially when we have the magical ability to rewind movies and shows to clarify what happened

Thank god Robert Kirkman in his “invincible” comic & tv series doesn’t have this issue. I’m consistently on edge as I know some really good characters are susceptible to permanent annihilation.

What’s your opinion on when a character dies but comes back in another form IE a ghost or alternate version ?

Actually, a Sarlacc is able to keep their victims alive for the entirety of their digestion.

I mean to be fair. Cob was shot in the shoulder Area once, while his deputy was Mag dumped. And I do believe we have seem many in the star wars lore get shot in worse places and limbs and keep going with just a bit of bacta

Anyone else notice that Cobb Vanth twists as if he got shot in the shoulder BEFORE he got shot in the shoulder? Either he has good reflexs to try and lessen the damage or they just messed up the timing in post...

Dave Filoni is perhaps the grossest offender in this category in terms of star wars by far. Why everyone continues to treat him like some kind of infallible messiah continues to elude me.

Darth Maul coming back, just undoes the impact of Obiwan’s duel in episode 1 which is what aloud him to skip the trials and become a Jedi Knight. Palpatine returning undoes Anakin’s victory as the chosen one. So in my opinion both were the wrong move. Boba Fett surviving the sarlac just to be a changed man, undoes everything we liked about him. Such as being a killer who even Vader had to ask to “keep them alive” because he knew Boba would otherwise kill Han and the rebels. Bringing Boba back as a different character than we expected also fits weirdly with the fact that Mando in Season 1 Episode 1 is essentially what we thought boba would be like. (A dark character who gets the job done and refuses to remove his helmet or make personal connections with anyone)

I wouldn't have been surprised if Cobb Vanth is eventually killed off. Timothy Olyphant has been signed on for the Justified revival, and if it's as big of a hit as FX believes, he'll be returning to a regular role.

I partially agree with your take on Darth Maul's revival. However, through hindsight, I found his arc in TCW to be quite rushed. My reasoning for this is because the show was more heavily focused on creating big action set pieces over good storytelling and it was clear that the writers saw Maul as a way to create more action. Instead of granting Maul a story about his psychological rehabilitation with his brother helping him along the way (which would have also elevated Savage's character), he's instantly healed by Mother Talzin so he can go and wreak havoc right away (just another example of Nightsisters being used as plot devices rather than actual characters). Furthermore, Maul's takeover of Mandalore happend far too quickly. Dooku applied the same tactics in order to take over Mandalore and had the resources from the CIS to help Deathwatch, but he failed. Then somehow Maul succeeded where Dooku failed despite the fact that his leadership was way more unstable, especially when you consider how backstabbing the Syndicate leaders were. Again, it's another example of story taking a back-seat in favour of more action. There really should have been a proper arc that utilised Maul's cunning and persuasion to garner the following he had by the end of TCW Season 5, which would have elevated his character further. Instead we just got action on top of action. Overall, Maul's revival was a great concept, but I think it could have been handled a lot better. Despite his rushed character arc, he did get a proper conclusion in Rebels which I appreciate.

For example, on Metal Gear Rising people are already asking for Jetstream Sam, a character who had his arc completed and is dead accordingly, to return because he can be saved through some tech or something. God just let them be dead

Bro...im the entirety of the last episode, the Scorponek droids couldn't shoot A SINGLE UNNAMED CHARACTER IN THE WIDE OPEN I can't believe anyone takes death in Star Wars seriously at this point.

Characters cheating death has the same effect as throwing characters into Arkham Asylum. It's intentionally placing characters on time off, only to be brought back when the time is right. Comic books until now survived on this revolving prison door trope.

I honestly never thought that Cobb Vanth was dead. He clearly was shot in the shoulder. The fact that there wasn't even a doubt about the deputy being dead and everyone rushing to the help of the Sheriff also supported that. I very sincerely never thought he was dead. Now, if they bring back Cad Bane, like I think they will, I'm going to be disappointed....just like I was when they killed Darth Maul and then annoyingly un-killed him...

0:05 What I got from it was it's a single shot to the shoulder and in no way should be fatal. I was more surprised at the attempted fake out dialog shown later because no way was that a fatal shot so it made no sense. Bad example. But good overall critique. The never really dead thing gets old.

There's a saying in the art world "Kill the child" it mostly refers to giving up on your idea which is also like your baby when it's not working. But I think you can still use that approach when killing off characters. I'm drafting a little story right now and two of my favourite supporting characters are gonna die, one being a close friend to the protagonist and the other being the protagonists mentor/surrogate father. They die rather close in time to each other and it nearly breaks the protagonist. It sends her down a dark path of self loathing and depression because the reality of the situation is made real. She comes back stronger and more willing to do good in the end but the mourning process is an entire arc in itself, and she never truly gets out of it. But if this story wasn't set in a gritty cyberpunk setting where the dead could get brought back at anytime, I think the reader would be furious to have spent so much time focusing on the aftermath of these characters dying only to bring them back, the emotional weight would be suddenly lost and any fear for other supporting characters biting the dust would cease to exist. On top of that it would've been a waste of time showing the protagonist going through the stages of grief. Which I believe would piss off the reader if ever they decide to read the story again.

I disagree with the premise of the first ten seconds of this video because on my very FIRST impression of the episode I knew Cobb Vanth was shot non-fatally. He got clipped in the shoulder.. that's not a fatal wound. I also was never confused by the characters talking as IF he was dead in the next episode because I realized it was just their mistaken assumption based on the clues given by the context. And yes, this was on my first viewing. It really wasn't confusing to me at all tbh

If I remember correctly, Maul was supposed to be a crime lord in Lucas' sequel trilogy, but I fell like Rebels ended him pretty well by Disney standards.

I remember when a character surviving was a surprise. Now it's pretty much expected. Every time someone dies, even if I cared about the character, I can't bring myself to feel sad because in the back of my mind I'm always thinking "They might be back next season".

There was an old RPG module called, the "lair of Maul" that someone wrote for the old d20 star wars RPG The players find an asteroid that scans out to apparently be carved out and housing a space station inside, with potential loot in the station. You dock, wade through an ungodly number of traps, fight powerful droids, and finally you make it to the loot room. There's cloning tanks everywhere, with adolescent red zabraks in most of them. One opens up, with an adult zabraks, who ignites a red lightsaber and attacks. After the encounter, you search the terminals and databanks for loot, and realize there is a second, opened cloning tank, a there's a missing shuttle from the station's docking bay, and, worst of all, dozens more of these asteroids throughout the galaxy...

I mean they set up Cobb Vanth's fake death from the start when they has Cad Bane shoot him in the literal most unlethal part of the torse (the right shoulder), so when Mando and the others say he died in the finale I was honestly surprised, but then even more surprised they were like "Oh wait he lived" at the post credits scene. They faked me out twice, one for telling me he died from a unlethal wound, and another for saying he actually didn't die. Also side note why tf does he need an entire tank that's meant to heal the worse injuries and scars in the galaxy for just a shoulder wound

I always imagined cobb was alive, and I dont think he needed prosthetics, just some rest and medical attention, but I agree that the absence of consequence in star wars and other media has soured my taste of character "deaths" beyond complete physical obliteration of that character. Well, besides palpatine for some reason

Maul dying in the tv show where him and oui wan are old men who have both given their lives to ideas that where chose for them from birth and maul and oui wan having a momemt of peace where they look to how the futer could be despite the paths thier lives where set on was truly to me one of the best star wars moments literally ever

Phenomenal video. Really great work.

If you actually thought Cobb was dead when you saw him get shot in the shoulder then that’s on you, I expected him to be up and kicking in the next episode but they decided he needed to modded and Bacta tanked for some reason

You make such great points and are able to explain and elaborate them so well. I almost always agree with you but can ever articulate like you do. Great work

When Luke said "No one is ever really gone" we all took it as a joke but Disney really..really ment it.

This is what was so good about game of thrones, you feel like no one is safe, and your favourite character could die at any point. It meant that when anyone was in danger you were genuinely nervous. And whenever they brought someone back you were genuinely relieved.

find it Ironic that this happened in boba fett's show even though it was very disappointing I think it worked well to say that boba fett survived the fact you didn't see his body, clues in books and learning that sarlac pit digest over long periods of time this is more clues over a long period of time rather than story telling but I found it funny that they had this problem in a show where it worked well with the main character

Would love to see a follow up to this video now that we know lightsaber stabbings don’t work, even on younglings !

Maul's survival is explained in another old book called "The Wrath of Darth Maul". I highly recommend reading it if you like the character.

I knew he was alive because that was not a vital spot and deputy got shot like 47 times so I thought he would just live. Also when that dude said oh he dead I was like how???

There is a lot of fair critisism regarding book of boba. But I will never understand why people complain about a character not dying from a single shot to the right shoulder. If it was his left you could claim that the laser hit the heart or something. But Cad Bane hit Cobb nowhere near vital organs!

Book of Boba Fett seems to take Chekhov’s Gun to an extreme level. It’s obvious that Boba will ride the rancour at some point, and that Din will use the darksaber in some epic final battle. If Andor was written by the same people, Mon Mothma would have some ridiculous fight with that ceremonial club Luthen tried to sell her.

For anyone wondering, Darth Maul was able to survive because of his hatred towards Obi-wan, hatred giving him more strength in the dark side which keeps him alive. Regardless of how stupid you might think this is, it is consistant throughout star wars. Darth Sion is another example of hatred keeping a character alive.

Gandalf the grey had a lot of foreshadowing before he came back into play as the white wizard

I immediately recall the chewbacca death fakeout. It's not the scene that made me realize this, but it's the most egregious example: If you don't get a whole 10 minute scene of the entire cast crying over their dead body, the character is probably not dead. No body, no emotions.

I have a very out there prediction that Maul’s scene in Solo will have some sort of connection to the upcoming Kenobi series but it wouldn’t make much sense for them to meet as it’s all before rebels

About boba fett, George Lucas himself said in an interview once that had he knew that boba would become so popular then he would’ve given him a more memorable death.

I loved the reference to the hank revival blooper lol

GREAT video man. Totally apt.

As soon as I saw Cobb get shot I knew he was fine. Because writing in modern shows are too predictable.

it turned to Dragonball deaths aka dont matter

I agree and understand exactly the point you've been making...With that said I have one word (Andor) if you haven't already I would love to see you make a video on star Star Wars Andor and its 'different' approach to character mortality. Maybe there's a chance that disney star wars could turn around?

Yeah I remember watching a compilation of Cad bane's reveal and everyone on his stand off said pretty much the same thing "he only hit his shoulder he should be fine" there was concern for the Sheriff all the way till the shooting started then we all knew he'd be fine as for Fett's motivs in the show, like maybe 2 or 3 times in the show Fett implies that his aim is to stop others being used as Pawns, First time he asks Fennick if she's tired of being used and tossed away when she's no longer useful second time he talks about how he was left for dead by Jabba in the pits when stealing his ship back he tells Fennick not to kill one of the guards because they were just a bounty hunter as well as his little band of misfits he's pulling together all have the same "we were used and thrown away when we were no longer useful" So that's my only clue on what his motivs for the Show are but that still doesn't mean it's being done right, the cause is noble, the idea is good and those few moments where he tries to use that ideology are decent, but then the rest of the show kicks in and it gets drowned out and suddenly we're watching an episode of the Mandolorian that accidentally got shipped as a Boba fett ep

“Somehow Fan Favourite Character returned”

The only people who stay dead in movies is uncle Ben and Batmans parents

Reminds me of how expertly Mr Robot handles some character deaths. Some of the deaths are so sudden, almost random, just like in real life how some of your closest mates can just die out at any given moment

Yknow, this movie had an interesting idea on a character’s death. In the movie Ultramarine, a character tackles a demon threatening to kill his squad mates. Now that character fell off a cliff alongside the demon, so I presumed both of them dead. Later, that character comes back… or does he!? He is actually revealed to be the demon in disguise, which was pretty cool.

Ive become so uninterested in Star Wars since Book of Boba came out, which sucks because I grew up loving the franchise, particularly the Original Trilogy (which my dad had on VHS). They fucked the story in that show up so badly, and honestly it seemed like such an easy show to get right: make Boba a badass crime lord and explain how he survived the Sarlacc, include the old bounty hunters (Bossk, Dengar, etc) we know and love, focus on how Tatooine has changed without Jabba. What we got was The Book of Mandalorian Season 2.5 featuring Boba the Pussy and his Robo Gang. The fake out deaths just added to the garbage writing of the show and made it so much more Disney than it already was. Characters used to be important, now they all feel so expendable considering the fact that there are no stakes because anyone of importance will just be brought back with some stupid logic. And yes this has happened before pre-Disney in Star Wars, but everytime it did there was usually a decent explanation and the return was meaningful (Obi-wan, Yoda and Anakin coming back as force ghosts, the entirety of Darth Maul coming back). Movies and TV have just gotten so cheap with their writing now (specifically Disney with Star Wars and the MCU Phase 4).

I love the return of palpatine, it was VERY understandable and earned, like how could you argue with “somehow palpatine returned” It’s perfect screenwriting

Best examples of "characters that won't stay dead" I can think of are Wesley in the Princess Bride (only mostly dead, came back handicapped and forced to rely on others to do the physical stuff he was champion of earlier in the story), Slade from Teen Titans (had so many fake out deaths with robots prior to his actual death that other characters are paranoid and convinced he's still around more than a year after he actually died), Moiraine from the Wheel of Time (Seemingly dies, leaving the protagonist without a mentor he can trust or believe in and doesn't come back until near the very end of the story, by that point having her role change completely), and Albus Dumbledore from the Harry Potter series (main characters try to come up with reasons he could have survived a fatal encounter but none of them would work and he is still dead, but still interacts with the characters after death through 1. clues and hints he left behind, 2. the main character has a conversation outside the living world with either his mentor or what his imagination conjures up as his mentor, and 3. some degree of his knowledge and personality is preserved in a portrait to allow for a little final conversation with the characters. In this example the character is well and truly dead but in many ways hasn't gone and is still impacting the story in a big way even after he has fallen out of it). In each of these examples, the character's death retains its impact while still being a situation where the character re-enters the story after having a death scene. The key is change. In tarot, one of the proper ways of reading the 13 card of the major arcana, Death, is change. Death is coming to make an end of the current world and make a new one- death is dramatic change. A character dying or seeming to die should greatly change the trajectory of the story. Even if a character turns out to still be alive, the moment of their 'death' should still be tremendously impactful even if the audience already knows they'll be seeing that character again.

I was misled by the title of this thinking it was going to be about how Timothy Olyphant is one fine actor that deserves more recognition or smth… That said, I wasn’t disappointed, good video :B

I was curious about your stance on the revival of Palpatine in Dark Empire back in the old EU days. Well-executed? Did it cheapen Vader’s sacrifice?

I was really excited for Book of Boba Fett. With his return in mando being good, and him being a badass, I had high hopes for this. Then I watched it, and it was pretty bad. Honestly a wasted story

Character deaths being undone in A Song of Ice and Fire are very interesting to me because in the books the characters are revived and seem to become these creatures of singular purpose and they are also a departure from who they were originally. I think the way it’s handled in those books is very fun with people like Stoneheart (Mama Stark) being a force of pure revenge after being revived by Dondarian.

In the case of solo revealing maul it was probably added in because the newer movies were supposed to be about the new Republic struggling to deal with the crimson Dawn, the fragments of the old empire, sith remnants(like not Lords just dudes idr) and basically just the struggles of a bio and moral diverse universe where we could see people like lukes new order. But they scrapped that script of 3 movies that George gave to them.

You guys never watched Gotham? In this show nobody dies ever

Absolutely not he got shot in the shoulder. 😂 That was my legitimate first impression of that scene and I wasn’t wrong. It’s clearly a shoulder shot. I agree though, Cad Bane is more than likely still alive too.

Been frustrated by these fake out deaths becoming SO common place like you said you can't ever truly trust someone has been killed. Even when they're essentially blown to bits or "killed" off in seemingly final ways a series will just write the laziest cop out to subvert expectations. Saddest part is a character dying when they're initially killed off is now what truly subverts expectations.

Such a good video bro

I actually, 1000%, couldn’t understand how anyone thought he had died. Clearly hit his shoulder, and his right shoulder. It’s not good writing or anything but it was very clear that he had survived imo.

imho it should have been Xizor at the end of Solo

Fun fact : George Lucas confirmed that Anakin is the real chosen one not Rey

I miss when the only theory on a dead character being alive in Star Wars was basically boba fett, and mace windu. And nobody took theories seriously or ever expected them to actually come back.