Should have spent time checking statistics and looked into coincidences.

@@michaelclayton7367 When you are seventeen years old going through awful emotional experiences then you have a powerful conversion experience all rational thought goes out the window. Fortunately for me, logic and reason slowly crept back in. Some die still believing it all. Glad I won't!

I won't disagree with your appraisal

If it weren’t for the supernatural element of faith, I would probably buy into much of what Carrier is peddling. However, I have seen too much of the metaphysical to put my faith in the likes of Carrier.

And yet the last thing you brought with you is proof. Cheers​@@Dingdongwitchisdead

He's kind of a pervert but don't let that turn you off to his knowledge of the Bible it's still true lol sorry you're just hearing about him now it's the strength and validity of his arguments not who he is as a person

If you like and agree with what he says, I don't see a way you could still stay a believer. But OK, everybody has its own ways of leaving the claws of religion.. Step by step.. After Richard Carrier I advise you to read stuff from Michael Shermer, then Dan Barker and Sam Harris.. All that should prepare you for the ultimate truth tellers -Christopher Hitchens, Richard Dawkins and Matt Dillahunty.. They are brutal and tell it like it is, but that is sometimes too much for a believer to digest from the onset.

I hope you have reviewed more of his work. His lectures and debates are very good and On the Historicity of Jesus is a wonderful book. His talks on the gospels were very enlightening and entertaining. I also recommend to sprinkle in some of Bart Ehrman's lectures. When you get your fill from these guys, then go to Christopher Hitchens and Richard Dawkins. You will hear some of the greatest arguments against the divine inspiration of the bible and religion in general. It's a great ride of enlightenment and equips you for interesting/quality conversations with others.

Tanya Wade carrier is a hack. Read elsewhere. I’d encourage you to read responses to carrier as well.

What false assumptions? In reality no one was an eye witness you would figure some fisherman maybe would have said or passed his story to his children about a guy doing miracles even if he couldn't read or write. There are stories that have been pass down by song.

Now there's an oxymoron:..to say he has a high understanding of the gospels, while knowing he rejects those writings as authentic. If Carrier understood the gospels, and understood history, he could not find grounds for rejection.

craig duncan It's plain right. He has _zero_ evidence. And you sure about that? Carrier, in the incredibly rare acts of humility, even admitted he lost

SurfK9 You nailed it. I just finished it last week, and wow it was amazing. A little hard to get through for the layperson, but ya gotta just push through.

He also states at all his talks that it is impossible to prove a negative. Namely that Jesus DIDN’T exist. He talks about probabilities. Specifically Beys Theory.

By this point, it wouldn't shock me if Carrier had concocted "evidence" that Greek didn't exist. "Greek mythicist" is probably a thing.

Is this suppose to be funny? You compare the existense of a great civilization and a well documeted language with the existence of a theological figure who is in the same level with Marvel's superheroes! lolol. Also Carrier does not "concoct evidence". Forgery is the middle name of christianity....

I am translating to portuguese - O Evangelho Segundo Carrier

Hey! Check out the description in my playlist for more info to fight bad ideas. Jesus Myth & The Holy (Dopamine) Ghost/Higher (Reward Pathway) Power kzfaq.info/sun/PLQATeZAnm87BaJjBtM1vMIq_gHRmBq3ie

After interviewing experts in the field of neuroscience and consciousness, it seems we shouldn't be talking about religious belief, but brain states.

You might also enjoy Alex O'Connor's channel. I think he's changing it to the CosmicSkeptic, but religion and religious debates are his jam.

John Doe 🤣😅😂👍

As with many videos, the music in this video adds nothing. In the case of many videos that are interviews, I find that the video isn't even necessary.

Winston Grettum : I’m not sure I understand what you mean by the term *foolish assumption*....Could you Elaborate on your meaning by foolish assumption… Thanks... Richard has spent many years studying the historicity of Christianity and is one of the few secular biblical scholars whom I trust on the subject...

“To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.” ― Thomas Paine, The American Crisis

Check out the full unedited video without the music

Clay Warner Voltaire was an atheist.

I know....you must have mised the point.

If it wasn't one religion it would have been another. We could be arguing about Sol Invictus instead right now, and you'd have the same sense of waste and futility. The Good News is, we've been slowly but steadily outgrowing religion for thousands of years. I think a tipping point is coming soon.

There is the full video interview which combines Parts 1 & 2 without music. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/mM-FgtyIyuCnZ30.html

@@11thstory The music actually over-powered the monologue in some sections. The jerky rhythym jazz section was the worst and loudest.

@@donnievance1942 You can listen to the full interview rendition without the music at kzfaq.info/get/bejne/mM-FgtyIyuCnZ30.htmlsi=3uJVdSv3mRtIcJK9

That's good insight, especially if this was the popular updated version of Homer. The Gospel of John has some references to the Dionysus cult so we can see that these Greek writers were creative in their story telling. They were probably aware and incorporated elements of the Jewish war and Rome's heroes. How does this relate or differ from the letters of the New Testament, which did not include any gospel narratives?

@@11thstory What I am seeing is that it is large and comments would get huge. I can make a simpler comparison after stating that story telling was an incredibly important part of pre-technology humanity. Before common schools teaching all to read and books were yet not common. For hundreds and actually thousands of years of human intelligence. Today, we get to see the stories from antiquity in one pile but the sorting is large. They had the stories memorized and they immersed in them as their technology of their day. They are verbal puzzles. Recently as about 500 years ago, Welsh, Knights of the Round Table. We are still looking for background concepts. I'll grab ones easy to see. They become obscure. Jesus was 'called' by being the only son of God, had 'supernatural powers,' travels with 'hand selected disciples' and instructs to seek the 'Kingdom of Heaven Within.' Arthur is 'called' as the only one who could extract Excaliber, had Merlin for 'supernatural powers,' traveled with 'hand selected Knights,' and seeks the 'Holy Grail'. There is a pattern in the background. It covers all universal life. Buddha's Karma = Law of Reciprocity = The Measure you mete unto others will be likewise meted unto you, = I will bless those who bless you and curse those who curse you. All analogous verbiage holding one single, mental concept. Cause and effect. What we cling to, we cycle around. It's huge. I see it as a verbal puzzle and not supernatural. It interprets down to mentally interactive steps. Think Fables on steroids and designed on the template of the human life cycle. Any time, we can turn it inward for psychological steps for healing. Getting to inner peace. Nirvana. The Kingdom of Heaven Within. It's a state of being.

I like it. To each his own.

👍

comlat wingpac It’s great music...on its own somewhere else. Doesn’t belong over someone’s words. !

Which god of thousands means nothing: Go to your local library and read other books on the historicity of Jesus, it is a fascinating subject, you ask good questions. These books have answers. None are interested in him as a God, only as a historical figure. KZfaq videos are not the best place to pick up wisdom on this subject.

exactly! Some idiot on here is refuting him and then saying Noah’s story in the next breath...superstition...

best on the planet

Why do you say so? There are thousands of brilliant histories that have been written. Carrier's title shows his fallacy. One cannot "prove" much of anything, and certainty not history! The title shows his arrogance.

Shaun Turton y 1

Well said

Really?

I believe that Dick is just what he claims to be. Dick carrier.

@Winston Grettum not at the same time though. There is a mitochondrial Eve and a genetic Adam but both did not exist at the same time.

Because if you don't then you end up with unchecked propaganda. It's harder to realise that you're wrong if everyone you know is also wrong and no one has ever told you what the right answer is.

Julien does have a good point. I know where you're coming from though. It's like playing chess with a pigeon. I do however find myself stomping on people when they misrepresent atheists or use strawman arguments against atheism. It brings out my inner Hitch.

No good reason to believe except, to hold out some meek hope of an afterlife.

We have the full Gospel According to Carrier interview without the music on the channel.

@@11thstory yesss perfect thank you haha

Not so “...firm and clear and precise...” with that damn music playing over his words!

👍

“We need something to replace cancer.” Spot on! It’s not enough to expose people to medicine and rehabilitation. If we take away peoples’ cancer, which provides discomfort, uncertainty, sense of dread, and agony, then we need to replace it with something based in reality and with demonstrable benefits, if not more so. It’s the same as in evidence; if you introduce a new product or service (reality) it needs to offer something that the previous competitors couldn’t provide, or do it better, or be perceived as the preferred choice, in order to take hold and become the dominant form of logical rationality. Customers need a reason to stop suffering from the old and comfortable way, into reality and possibly finding out what is evident.

Get his book "On the Historicity of Jesus." Then write a book of your own negating all his book says. Then get it peer reviewed and then you can rant.

I think many religious people would leave the myth of Jesus, Mohammed, Brahma... If we could reach them with science and reason. But evangelicals would only trade Jesus for cocaine.

Check out the full unedited interview with no music.

Jesus should go first!

skip: no, that is not how academia or knowledge works. I am sorry you find this tedious but UNLESS one is trained in the field or a related field to the topic ONE SHOULD not give their OPINION on the evidence. It means NOTHING. Only the EXPERTS (the consensus) matter. I rely on the consensus (THE AUTHORITY) on the validity of: dangers of tobacco, climate change, health issues, etc. Do you? Why should I be swayed by Carrier , who is one ancient history PhD, when 100's of experts disagree with him. Maybe in 20 years I and the consensus will be proven wrong but now I listen to the consensus. Carrier is being given a chance, more experts are now looking at his work. Maybe someday. As a non-expert I am not looking to youtube for the dangers of climate change or tobacco, I read consensus reports that are published in popular newspapers books, magazines. Why would a non-expert do this for the question of the historicity of Jesus?

So, you believe in anthropogenic related climate change and the dangers of tobacco addiction, and you believe there is ample evidence of a Jesus dude?

Stephen Weppner do you accept the mainstream consensus on Moses and most of the biblical patriarchs and do you realize that consensus only changed in the last 30 or so years?

Ron Darling: Yes to all 3 because a disgusting sizable number of experts say that the evidence points in that direction. Thanks for making my point again: belief in anthropocentric related climate change and the belief in dangers of tobacco addiction is the equivalent of belief that there is ample evidence for the historicity of a Jesus dude. Carrier's hypothesis is fringe. vivahernando1: Sure, consensus may change, I can allow for that. The consensus about climate change and tobacco has changed. In 30 yrs Carrier hypothesis may be part of the consensus. My comment is on expertise. If I am not an expert why shouldn't the consensus argument carry weight? We should ignore a politician who has a view on climate change which goes against the scientific consensus. I agree Carrier is an expert on the subject his opinion should carry some weight, should be given its due. But his non-expert minions who believe in him should be aware that his view is not mainstream and it has been challenged.

Stephen Weppner There is NO evidence for the historicity of Jesus. The only thing all those experts have is a mere speculation.

Actually you are absolutely correct in your statement. In fact in his words to the Luke warm church in Laodicea Jesus says that because you are lukewarm I will vomit you out of my mouth. (Revelation 3:16) The traditional church in our world fits this category. It's Christianity is luke warm, they search for riches and have no need for God. However. This does not apply to all Christianity. There are still a small remnant of Christians who still honour God. Because they are small in number they are overshadowed by the big 'corporate' Christianity.

Thank you. It's Rob McWilliam. We should be posting some of the music on our soundcloud page in the next week. soundcloud.com/11thstory/

BILL ROGAN You don't need to use apostrophes in prisoners or thanks.

BILL ROGAN religions come and go this one will die out eventually, It takes time. In a 1000 years Christianity will be no different from Zeus or Thor.

New ignorant people are born everyday, then end up indoctrinated by their parents. All you need is one linking generation. There isn't much to stop it.

In any of these religions. Can donating the religious leaders money help with spiritual salvation?

There's really nothing to address. Carrier's argument is awful and is been annihilated so badly so many times it's just beating a dead horse.

@@bbconklin2662 but you just addressed his argument with a complete and utter nothingness !! Just like any good Christian would do .

Because it's you tube

Don't get mad......just let Dick be himself......Dick carrier.

"Lesion studies have demonstrated that ventro-medial prefrontal cortex lesion patients have elevated scores of religious fundamentalism" "Damage to the ventromedial prefrontal cortex (especially in the right hemisphere) has been connected with deficits in detecting irony, sarcasm, and deception. Subjects with damage in this area have been found to be more easily influenced by misleading advertising. This has been attributed to a disruption of a “false tagging mechanism” which provides doubt and skepticism of new beliefs.People with damage to the ventromedial prefrontal cortex still retain the ability to consciously make moral judgments without error, but only in hypothetical situations presented to them. There is a gap in reasoning when applying the same moral principles to similar situations in their own lives. The result is that people make decisions that are inconsistent with their self professed moral values."

Raoul, At least 95% of PhD's who are experts in this field have disagreed with this hypothesis (if you are saying that his hypothesis is that the historical Jesus never existed). Some are theists but many are agnostic or atheist. Note Carrier's hypothesis is a legitimate hypothesis but it is a fringe hypothesis. So I am not quite sure what it would take to convince you that there are compelling arguments that Jesus did exist, you are ignoring almost all of the experts in the field. Are you a climate change denier and a flat-Earther. Carrier is that type of minority. Who knows, maybe someday this will be the majority opinion but it will take time, that is how scholarship works.

We asked Dr. Carrier the same question which we will put out in a future excerpt. Why are the majority of scholars in disagreement with your hypothesis?

Argumentum ad populum is a fallacy. Carrier does address the fact that most scholars believe in a historical Jesus because they are basing that on flawed and outright wrong information. The science of a spherical earth and climate change are not quite the same as trying to confirm 2,000-year-old religious text as a basis for someone's actual existence. Carrier has done the work that most scholars are too fucking lazy to do. They would much rather just do what you did and repeat the notion that "most scholars agree". In time, you and these lazy scholars will be proven to be wrong but fear not...you will probably be dead and you won't have to admit that you preferred to accept the popular notion over the more well researched science.

Stephen, academics are brainwashed by the jesus myth. Any idiot can see that is makes no sense for gods messenger to come to earth, and then for his book to be written AFTER his lifetime The whole thing is utter nonsense

*Stephen Weppner* Most of their livelihoods depend on disagreeing with the evidence. pbs.twimg.com/media/B7w_8QNCQAEAT5c.png:large

Acharya S. check it out.cheers

Brilliant comment! Just didn’t quite understand your last statement, “If people weren’t searching for something else, there would be no interest in scholarly work” Would you mind expounding on that? Very curious...

Thanks :) Why did religions start in the first place ? Why did mark and then others write these stories ?

Hi Kevin, Thanks for inquiring! We had a phone interview with Reza Aslan about the development of religion and religious ideas. Audio is fair and the transcript is on a page we created that's posted in the video description. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/o5ybhrJemcfdpKM.html

Your wikipedia link is broken and any similarities you make between Jesus of Nazareth and Jesus Ben Ananias are far fetched and dodgy at best. The only things they share is their names and the fact they said Jerusalem was going to be destroyed. And that's literally where it stops.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_ben_Ananias

I'm a born again Christian, I get where you are coming from. So many are indoctrinated to focus on a profession of faith, they miss what the bible says about how we are to live. They like to quote Paul from Romans a lot, until they get to verse 2:7-11. I recommend you check it out, especially to deal with someone who tells you a Christian is "saved forever" by mouthing a simple prayer once in their life.

Whenever I hear the phrase "I will pray for you!" ... I smile. It is a raw admission that the religionist saying it has exhausted all arguments for his beliefs.

But his study is in the Most ancient core. The foundation of the church is exactly where anyone who wants to claim to be Christian should actually be looking. Everyone affected by this church should be looking into it as well. I personally am anti-theist and hope that religion itself crumbles soon. It is interesting history to me outside of a belief system.

Except the Flying Spaghetti Monster... 😂

very obvious.

yeah idky people are aruging.

👍

Thank you! That's our music collaborator Rob McWilliam. We are in the process of releasing our work to music streaming services. You can hear some of Rob's solo work on our film soundtrack, The Deeper You Go at soundcloud.com/11thstory/albums He also contributed to both of our albums as a keyboardist and bass player.

Well, there is a detailed history of people starting new religions from old ones right? You have the Mormon religion, the muslim religion, the Buddhist religions, all created when one person had some powerful insight. Combined with amazing charisma.

Carrier is not claiming that Mark invented a new religion. The presumption is that the religion already existed (probably not as a single religion, but as a complex of related cults), but that Mark collated some of their traditions and created a literary narrative that strung them together and added elements to serve a particular theological interpretation. The cult figure of Jesus was already a part of these beliefs. Carrier is saying that Mark wrote a fictional biography of this non-existent cult figure.

Valerie Angell Yes, allegorical literature that's been manufactured to be literal. It's trivial and futile to debate any texts in this bible

The reality of jesus try saying that with a straight face 😐 I dare you

We appreciate that!

Just wish the volume of the music was turned down.

Greetings. Please see our interview with Lena Einhorn who believes the historical Jesus was the "Egyptian" as described by the historian Josephus. Our interview with Dr. Price also mentions other messiahs who fit some characteristics of the gospel story, including Jesus Ben Ananus I think if one takes a look at all the composite historical persons from Josephus you could pull out descriptive bits of the gospel character. The OT character of Joshua (Jesus) must have been a central figure and inspiration for the war against the Romans. Both rebels; Theudus (parting the river Jordan) and the Egyptian (calling for the walls of Jerusalem to fall) mimic Joshua (Jesus).

Pottery Barn

Let Dick explain......yea..Dick carrier.

Because Carrier is a bad historian who invents countless explanations to come to his preconceived conclusion.

He destroys nothing. He makes a lot of baseless assumptions which reputable scholars agree are wrong.

Its pathetic that in these times we still need to explain people, like they are kids believing in Santa - your evidence of God is zero. Your evidence of a Devine Jesuse is zero. Your evidence of the Ark is negative zero lol - Incest via Abraham's kids?

Dick can do this he thinks. That's why he is Good Ol Dick. Dick carrier.

It's called human nature, imagination and the ego fear of death.

@@TheRobdarling You're so right. Thank you.

You’re right read ‘The Silk Roads’.

Thank you! Cheers!

It doesn't necessarily mean that they used Josephus as an idea as it could have been something commonly reported.

@@11thstory The old testament has many prophesies about the coming of the messiah and how to know who he was; that's why the Apostols and Paul always referred to the old testament as proof of Jesus validity. remember the opposition's (Jews) argument was that Jesus was a false prophet. Jesus was a reflection of Moses, the way Moses liberated the Israelites, so does Jesus liberated humanity from sin; Jesus was also a reflection of Elijah and God himself. (John 14:9).