The HHKB Layout: Revisited

Рет қаралды 57,082

6 жыл бұрын

Last time, I was pretty harsh on the HHKB's layout without actually putting in the effort to try it out. I went back for it for about a month, and I've changed my mind
Things shown in the video:
HHKB Professional 2 Type-S with BKE Redux Light domes
KBD66: 65g Zealios + GMK Nautilus
KBD661: Kailh Pro Purples + GMK Pristine
Aluminum Clueboard R1: Lubed Gateron Yellow + GMK SoWaRe
Weaven: Kailh Box Royal
GH60 in Revo One: Lubed 67g Zealios
B.Face x2: Mod-H + OG Cherry Doubleshot
High Profile Planck: Gateron Yellow in Zeal housing + GMK Mondrian
Pok3r: Cherry MX Blue
Some maple syrup
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Reddit: / jymv
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Пікірлер: 99

@brettm4179 5 жыл бұрын

Vim keybinds can help with a lot of your gripes with the hhkb layout

5 жыл бұрын

The best review on the HHKB layout for programmers I've ever since! Thanks a lot!

@JYMV 5 жыл бұрын

Thank you. The perspective for vim users might be a little different but I've heard good things about that too.

@foobar1979 4 жыл бұрын

The HHKB layout is based on the Sun type 5 US/Unix layout. It makes sense to any unix user, especially anyone that used unix workstations in the 80s & 90s.

@happysmash27 4 жыл бұрын

I liked the HHKB Lite2 arrows more than the HHKB Pro2 ones, as on the HHKB Lite2 there are not only actual arrow keys, but a function key on the left which is great for ergonomically operating the function-operated arrow keys.

@ianpan0102 5 жыл бұрын

Use Vim or Emacs and you never have to worry about arrow keys again.

@DVRC 5 жыл бұрын

I confirm. Since i use VIM, i use my keyboards as a 60% (i have a Model M and a Rantopad MXX with red switches). I plan to buy an HHKB when i will have moneys

@Stu49583 4 жыл бұрын

I don't know...I use vim without the arrow keys but why omit the arrow keys still? I mean it does not take a lot of extra space to include them. The whole argument to leave out the arrow keys sounds a bit fanboyish to show I am so cool I don't need them.

@ShaunakDe 4 жыл бұрын

I use vim but at the end, still have to scroll in excel / web browsers / logs over a webui in Kibana... so arrow keys are still useful to me.

@mynameisjhun 4 жыл бұрын

BIG FACTS

@binshuo 4 жыл бұрын

I have to use a VIM to accommodate a keyboard? I used to program C++ in VIM and had an HHKB. It was fine if you use and only use VIM for everything, but that is not the case in the modern-day workflow for pretty much anyone. I need to use a web browser, IDE like IntelliJ, spreadsheet, and all those other tools. I'm pretty glad I gave my HHKb to a friend before I moved to a different country so now I can use a standard tkl keyboard to perform my tasks and not have to pretend the it's a cool keyboard.

@bograham6221 3 жыл бұрын

As a linux and vim user, this layout is perfect. a lot of smaller boards force the tilda and esc to the same key, which bothers me. Another change that a lot make is replacing or dropping the right super key, which makes window manager hotkeys harder to press; one-handed operations can become two-handed due to the overreliance on the left super key.

@TjPhysicist Жыл бұрын

the only thing i don't like is the arrow keys on hhkb. I thought it makes way more sense to have it mapped to Secondary layer on HJKL (so mimicing vim movement keys). That's I ended up doing and i almost instantly got used to it because of so much muscle memory for using HJKL for movement in vim already. I suppose the position they're on in hhkb is a little more ergonomic and easier to press while holding down Fn on the right side, but still, hjkl is not that much worse.

@0name933 6 жыл бұрын

The real problem with the HHKB is the price.

@PaladinJenkis 5 жыл бұрын

Absolutely not. Made in Japan, superior quality, extremely good QA, fantastic layout, best caps money can buy. And all that out of the box. The price is more than justified.

@futoenjoyer 5 жыл бұрын

@@PaladinJenkis not actuay superior, layout depends, caps are pbt but thin, shitty abs spacebar the typing feel wont be able to be mimicked by other boards but it's obvious that the price is ridiculous

@PaladinJenkis 5 жыл бұрын

By what standards is the price ridiculous? By yours? Thankfully not! I repeat, it's made in Japan, has a fantastic QA, capacitive switch design that is basically going to last forever, best caps money can buy, no wobble, no scratchyness, brilliant layout and all that "out of the box" since 2003! How is the price ridiculous considering all that? Come on man, have some common sense.

@futoenjoyer 5 жыл бұрын

@@PaladinJenkis have you ever even read my comment? all the strengths of hhkb you suggest are actually overrated as fuck also ive customized/build my several custom boards and hhkb's price does not look that big however i'm saying the price doesn't fit the actual product

@kahzhoylow4352 5 жыл бұрын

Don't argue about worth vs cost ever. No two people will land on the same judgement.

@parisosu 2 ай бұрын

NICE VIDEO!

@CoreyStock 5 жыл бұрын

My experience with the HHKB changed drastically once I found the proper DIP switch settings. I have 2,3,4, and 6 all set to 1. This keeps the keyboard in Mac mode, switches backspace and delete, and sets the left meta key to Fn. This makes for the optimal setup in my opinion.

@slowtyper95 2 жыл бұрын

Btw if you set left meta key to fn, does the fn swapped to meta key or you have 2 fn?

@CoreyStock 2 жыл бұрын

@@slowtyper95 I don’t have the pro 2 anymore, but I’m pretty sure you then have 2 fn keys

@slowtyper95 2 жыл бұрын

@@CoreyStock i see. I do lot of text selection like ctrl shift home/end. So left fn should helps a lot

@bamdadkhan 6 жыл бұрын

box.. royals.. on the table.. and you're talking about the HHKB.. sheesh xD

@juanecoperu 6 жыл бұрын

Can you make a review for hhkb lite? Because it has dedicated directional/navigation keys and a second function key to the left. It would be great to hear your opinions

@JYMV 6 жыл бұрын

That would be pretty interesting. I'll look into it for sure!

@moonlessinn Жыл бұрын

Curious question, do you find any wobble on your right shift key with the HKKB's that you've tried?

@MpSniperM1911 3 жыл бұрын

you don't need arrow keys when you use Vim, the superior text editor (i guess). btw i would use a 60% only if it is a HHKB or a layout inspired by it. I like your blue and grey keyboard! The real reason i want the keyboard is because of some parts of the layout, specially the backspace that makes the grave and tilde accent in a dedicated key. The control and caps lock swaped is useful but my main reason is the dedicated tilde key

@yllib2012 Жыл бұрын

You may like the Tokyo60 in aluminum. Same layout as HHKB in an aluminum case. It takes a bit of work to make it sound good but I love it.

@laffed2045 4 жыл бұрын

vim would solve a lot of the problems you have with this layout. once you get used to it, i think you'll prefer it

@programmer1356 11 ай бұрын

indeed. I use nvim and have used this keyboard (and predecessors) for about 15 years it's a wonderful programming keyboard

@hanazuki333 6 ай бұрын

@@programmer1356 did you do any remapping ? what do you have in the bottom row next to spacb. ?

@programmer1356 6 ай бұрын

@@hanazuki333 I'm not sure I know what you mean by re-mapping. I have neovim remappings if that is what you mean. On the keyboard itself the keys next to the space bar are alt and fn.

@Fanaro Жыл бұрын

As a Vim user, I cannot see myself having Ctrl where I use Esc everyday constantly.

@richard-mai 3 жыл бұрын

Can you have IJKL work as arrow keys by layering it with ctrl instead of fn?

@JYMV 3 жыл бұрын

There is no way to program the board in the stock form

@richard-mai 3 жыл бұрын

@@JYMV what about with hasu controller?

@JYMV 3 жыл бұрын

Yes it should be totally possible with hasu. Though I found it a little weird to move Ctrl on it. I ended up just learning regular hhkb layout

@AMAN-cm1zk 5 жыл бұрын

What is the keyboard on 1:40? looks like Clueboard but has a different layout..?? Thank you!

@konradvonmaisfeld6428 5 жыл бұрын

KBD66, he also has a video on that one.

@z1kk 2 жыл бұрын

what's your opinion on the board and layout now? do you still use it?

@JYMV 2 жыл бұрын

I'm pretty comfortable with it but I still prefer poker style 60 layouts. For the most part, I've regressed to just using 65% where I don't even need to use layers. Guess I got lazy

@pablobello0 5 жыл бұрын

vim please

@pocket1122 4 жыл бұрын

Pure maple syrup

@Brovid1999 4 жыл бұрын

cant seem to get the caps lock combination (fn + control) working is there any specific way Im meant to press them?

@JYMV 4 жыл бұрын

I believe caps lock is typically fn+tab

@Brovid1999 4 жыл бұрын

@@JYMV cheers man haha I figured it out apparently it has to be in mac or windows mode for the caps lock to work.

@logang865 6 жыл бұрын

What color did you get with the m60-a? I joined the GB too.

@JYMV 6 жыл бұрын

I joined that black one. Kuro I think? I'm not sure what set will look the best on it though.

@Maaruks 6 жыл бұрын

I ordered black one too !!!

@logang865 6 жыл бұрын

What is the board called that has the FC660C layout?

@JYMV 6 жыл бұрын

I featured these three: kbd66, kbd661, aluminum Clueboard

@HYP3DSNIP3R 6 жыл бұрын

Most keyboards with 66 keys usually have that layout.

@yichen8884 4 жыл бұрын

It’s if you use vim/emacs, then hhkb. Not if hhkb, then use vim/emacs.

@johnsihn4520 6 жыл бұрын

Can you please PLEASE assemble your hhkb properly?

@qhacking8262 3 жыл бұрын

what is the name of the 660 layout board

@JYMV 3 жыл бұрын

Three here The pointy one is Clueboard 66 The one that looks like an Enter key is KBD661 And the boring one is KBD66

@j.c.k.6883 6 жыл бұрын

then i am here with iso De..................

@tomarintomarin9520 3 жыл бұрын

I buy the HHKB for the bluetooth

@iLiokardo 5 жыл бұрын

2:46 Map FN to Alt.

@CB-sk7fx 5 жыл бұрын

hello can we be friands 🌹

@hstrinzel 7 ай бұрын

VVHAT? NO Cursor Keys? How is that supposed to work? Did Steve Jobs have to approve this? I know, in the OLD days we had WordStar Ctrl-E/S/D/X for cursor movement out of the home row, but nowadays on a IBM Model M keyboard, that feel ARKANE. It IS TWO keypresses, just for 1 line up. That might have been good on an Apple II keyboard, but NOT on an IBM Model M.

@jlebrech 5 жыл бұрын

60% keyboards are made for vim

@Stu49583 4 жыл бұрын

All the vim cult users in the comment section...we get it, you are cool

@alexwang5760 4 жыл бұрын

May in hacker's world hacking is nothing but under cli

@coffee1080 3 жыл бұрын

the only good hhkb is the JIS version with hasu LOL

@DerComputerist 6 жыл бұрын

I think your first analysis was not done from the point of view of the actual target user of the HHKB. As its name so proudly states: hackers, i.e. people passionate about computer programming. It is well known that the de-facto “hacker” system is *NIX, in any of its forms. Be it Linux, BSD or macOS. Many of the HHKB’s layout choices accommodate very well to this kind of user. Control where Caps Lock typically is is great for navigating in a terminal. If you’re on the Mac, the HHKB’s GUI and Alt positions is the default one. No need to swap them via software. The backspace’s position is easier to reach and a good decision. In the Mac most shortcuts are done via Command+, so Control is not as important as on Windows. I’ve found that most people who complain about the HHKB’s layout are not *nix users. They are simply not the target for this board and should go find something else.

@binshuo 4 жыл бұрын

as a macOS user(unix w/ a nice UI), I disagree. If I have to use VIM or Emacs when I type on HHKB, that should be in the buyer's warning. I used to have HHKB and it works OK in VIM, and only in VIM. The lack of arrow key makes it pretty much useless. That secondary layer for arrow key is freaking weird and unnatural. The only thing that makes sense on this keyboard is that ctrl is placed next to little finger.

@SixFingeredAmish 6 жыл бұрын

I still think Pok3r layout is better

@robsinHL 3 жыл бұрын

Vim rocks. Till you debug in something like Pycharm or Visual Studio. And then you look like a hipster who's shoes got puked on by some homeless dude on the subway.

@fgsz291 3 жыл бұрын

Vimspector is an amazing Debugging Plugin for Vim