Not one socialist country has ever produced a large middle class or prosperity like capitalist ones. 🙏🇺🇸

I feel so blessed to live in a time I can watch this talk for free, from another country, in my home, wearing shorts and flip-flops.

Socialism is as socialism does. I view socialism as their actions. And taking away people's private property seams to fit right along the lines of socialism.

46:50 "Tocqueville said that unfortunately most people would prefer to be equal and poor than unequal and better off. It was he that said that the two most powerful emotions in human experience are jealousy and envy. It's the idea that someone else better off than you is a more important concern than you being better off. There's some innate human desire to make sure that anyone through accident (in the Aristotelian sense) doesn't look better than you do. " Victor Davis Hanson. Rene Girard describes this human tendency as mimetic desire: I want it because you have it.

Somebody said: A socialist is a communist without a gun.

The fact we have to have this conversation is insane.

Hanson has an eloquent way of explaining complex topics. 🙇‍♀️

And the farmers stopped farming and the truckers stopped trucking. And the firefighters stopped fighting fires and police stopped policing and the employers stopped hiring and the employees stopped producing and the poorest of the poor went hungry first.

if you do not have the freedom to defend yourself you are not free.

Every time I hear vdh speak I'm absolutely mesmerized.

Prof. Ferguson is absolutely correct. I worked in Sweden for 10 years, on and off, and Sweden is not a socialist country. It’s a capitalist country with a high social commitment to it’s citizenry. Like most of Europe there is a safety net, especially around healthcare, education and housing. While poverty is, of course, still a problem it is in no way compatible to the level one often sees in many major US cities, particularly those on the west coast.

Brilliant observation with respect to how collectivism has evolved to use identity politics instead of class based politics because of how well off most are now in the United States. As always great content and thanks for the upload!

Thanks to the Hoover Inst. for making such necessary content and discussion available.

Absolutely love hearing VDH speak. Supremely educated and articulate.

Brilliant to be promoting honest and articulate discussions like these.

“I'd like to know why well-educated idiots keep apologizing for lazy and complaining people who think the world owes them a living.” ― John Wayne

Socialism can never work because it goes against human nature. ""From each according to their ability, to each according to their needs." Only happens with incentives to produce and deterrents to take more than your share, thus some form of capitalism is the only answer. We should put this debate to rest in grade school so we don't waste our time as adults.

I always love VDH and NF in a conversation!!!!! They are so good at honing historically relative facts into a present day point. Amazing! a moderator who knows how not to make it about himself.... ;)

33:00 Here in Norway we too we have something called AS Norge, and it is what drives the economy, small business is what employs the most people, pay the most taxes and provides the most services. Small Business is capitalism, not big business. Both Niall and Victor nailed it.

VDH & NF are definitely two of the brightest minds of the last few decades. We would all benefit enormously if they were more involved in public policy decisions. They are a NATURAL RESOURCE.

Thank you Gentlemen. It was a pleasure listening.

We need to get Victor his swimming pool! His anecdote about visiting the planning office was unsettling.

I guess one might say you can measure the intelligence of a man by how much his book shelves sag. Victor D. Hanson must be pretty intelligent.

This is how a discussion/debate should be.

Thank you. It makes me very happy to see and hear this from the doctors. I was starting to think everyone in the world is going crazy, and could not figure out why they couldn’t think straight. This is a good start to help everyone heal.

Brilliant discussion. Thank you so much. As a member of the millennial generation who is also a conservative and member of the US military I sincerely appreciate it.

I love how professors are teaching, “college should be free”. Yet, I don’t see any of those professors willing to take a pay cut to help it be free.

Now THIS Ive got to see. Thanks for putting this up. Who needs the legacy media, this is going to be true teaching.

Wow, jail for harvesting raisins? Very Interesting! 🧐 I always enjoy the discussions here. Many thanks!

I see in my mind a daily revelry and conviviality and merry making with my classmate and fellow member of our fraternity binge drinking club, Karl Marx. Lacking capitalistic ambition, we frolic in a fairy tale land of mental imagery mocking the lifestyle of our progenitors and beneficiaries who finance our inspired escapism at university level with a contemporary imagination led by the legends of Napoleonic mastering of the universe through nationalistic theft and coercion. We escape the demands of household responsibility and spin webs of adventurous tales in our beer. Why should we work? Our endless drunken future is guaranteed by our rich predecessors. Money is not real. It is a tool used to overpower our critics.

Pretty interesting! I like that Niall made sure to bring up the differences between Socialism, Social Democracy, and just paying higher in taxes.

Here is a key logic error that no one has corrected: Our true system is "The Free Enterprise System", not "Free market". Free markets are only one component of the Free Enterprise System. Failing to distinguish between these two concepts is part of the reason we are in this mess. This has been the major flaw that President Trump has been addressing. The U.S. can have internal free markets, because all states are subject to the same federal laws. But leaving our markets open and free to the rest of the world which does not reciprocate and tarrifs our products to high heaven, is what has nearly decimated our economy. We have been subsidizing the world and they hate us for it!

Could you please add a list of books you mention for further study in the description section.

I believe that the venerable Sitting Bull would have mentioned that Mr. Ferguson may be a good example of someone who speaks with forked tongue.

Can you imagine the conversations over the dinner table between Ayan Hirsi Ali and Niall Ferguson? Both brilliant, articulate and insightful. Their children are indeed privileged.

Great deal of gratitude for the folks at the H.I. for consistently providing such compelling topics and guest speakers. Lot's of information to wrap my head around!!! So, Socialism in practical experience is an abject failure when it moves beyond micro or family level because it has a deleterious effect on freedom/liberty (where it seems to work well because the redistribution favors the micro or group/family interest -for the most part). The growth and overreach of bureaucracy becomes an impingement in Capitalism because it has a deleterious effect on freedom/liberty. The common denominator for failure is pretty regardless of the system.

The Hoover Institution presents an online virtual speaker series based on the scholarly research and commentary written by Hoover fellows participating in the Human Prosperity Project on Socialism and Free-Market Capitalism. This project objectively investigates the historical record to assess the consequences for human welfare, individual liberty, and interactions between nations of various economic systems ranging from pure socialism to free-market capitalism. Each session will include thoughtful and informed analysis from our top scholars.

Always love it when VDH drops another video

idk why but yall drop all your most fire videos with the best guests at like midnight n 2 am #latenighthoover

Thank you. Great discussion of historic significance to all Americans breathing the air of the present.

Always fun and informative to hear some great minds talk. I'm wondering more about how capitalism can have a safety net, and I wonder if it needs to be codified into law at all, or if we can have altruistic companies -- and if not, what is the obstacle?

Top 10 anime crossovers, Niall Fergson, Victor Davis Hanson, and Russ Roberts, I love it

For me, the most significant aspect of the relationship between State and corporations is very reminiscent of Fascism. In the Doctrine of Fascism, Gentile makes the point very clear that the State has to monopolize power and subjugate the economy using ‘guilds’ (corporazioni). I am surprised by the lack of reference to this by the panel at this point.

Thank you very much, always enjoy the interview.

To Mike's question: Why would you need a strong social safety net if free enterprise is able to flourish. One you would build your own strong "social safety net", two your family would be able to lend a hand, three if not your family then neighbor's/community, four if not neighbor's and community then private charities in the city. But why not eliminate the very need for a "strong social safety net"? Seems like a much more prosperous and wholly solution.

I really like the content I get to watch from the Hoover Institution, but please do some basic audio mastering. I was riding my volume control the whole time, based on who was speaking. A little compression and EQ can make a huge difference. With today's software, Victor and Niall's muffled audio could be made significantly more intelligible, not to mention loudness leveled with the other tracks.

Thanks, fellas, for this discussion. Hoover continues to put out some of the best content, from some of the smartest minds. Fascinating and educational. Niall Ferguson and Victor Davis Hanson are absolutely spot-on when they speak about socialism's hypocrisy. This galls me, too. Appreciate the time from you guys - it's like being a student at a top university! Keep 'em coming. Mind food!

Excellent discussion , thank you all! Cheers from Australia 🇦🇺🇦🇺

Thank you very much for this great content. The Hoover institute has such great people that present great ideas we can all learn from immensely. I know it has improved my life and thinking substantially and i'm sure many others would say the same.

In America everyone has the potential to raise themselves to a higher class or income. Without the interference of Government that's why capitalism works

Great discussion. I learned quite a bit fellas. Thank you. I enjoyed the story about production of the nails and dresses.

GDP - a measure controlled by financiers - which appears to grow - and thus fool the uninitiated - whilst wholesale theft takes place...

Hello. I'd like to point out that, simply put, youngsters and liberals who call themselves socialists are not actually socialists - they are utopians who see unevenly distributed prosperity in the western world. The reason for the uneven distribution is due to capitalism and the solution seems to be social programs. Thus is, it's nice people trying to reduce suffering of folks in poverty.

To me the main problem with socialism is central planning and lack of creative competition

So educational, thank you. Audio quality is quite poor, could you please repost.

The conversation regarding the enchroachment on individual property rights by the administrative state has indeed been on an upward trajectory for some time in America. However, be it socialism or progressivism, VDH and Nial converge on the point that American individualism continues to wan in America. Nial and VDH are two great historians.

I recommend upgrading your audiovisual department. Otherwise thanks for the content. Two very admirable guests.

These very knowledgeable gentleman need Thomas Sowell to come on, and share some of his knowledge and wisdom with them, and their audience.

Niall Ferguson has such a supple mind and I really enjoyed that sparring (and it was) between he & VDH. When will the Left and the Right begin having Civil dialogue like this?

If you want to know what it is like living under Socialism/Communism join the military. You have public housing, public chow halls, public medical care. They tell you what job you are going to have etc. Granted once you decide to make the military your career things get better and you have more options, but the first few years after you join it is like I said in my opening statement.

Very enjoyable and very informative.

Hello: I thought I would mention how much I appreciate your programming. Thank you for efforts, time and knowledge. Got you on auto pilot.

Victor Davis Hanson is a national treasure.

Excellent discussion. Thank you.

worth rewinding from 50:00 on. Ferguson hits it right on the nail.

Invite Thomas Sowell.

Two of my favorite "heavies"!

How long will it be that Richard Wolfe is excluded from the Hoover Institution? A. B. Strehli

Amazing chat!

I have noticed that in the 20 century. The nations that embraced socialism/communism. Also had a cultural affinity towards subjugating themselves to the state (monarchy).

Good conversation fellas, thanks

Brilliant job - many thanks for this

Very great articulated conversation about what the real discussions that are happening today. No real extremist propaganda slants on the facts. Thank you for this discussion.

Many people have told me that socialism is the only answer to equality. They've also told me this while living in a capitalist society.....

"Marx and Engels got a couple things wrong." - A bit of an understatement.

An easy way to find out which system is better, just ask which side resorts to name calling whenever they are debated

Steven Pinker has a great Ted that outlines the benefit of free markets on world wide reductions in hunger, infant mortality and just general improvements in the human condition. Also Francis Fukuyama in his books outlines the benefits of capitalism in general doing the same.

I feel like there is someone missing from the conversation. Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged was all about this, no?

VDH & Ferguson? GOLD

Great speakers and scholars 😃

Great discussion, thanks!

Awesome!! Thank you

Not saying the excellent Ferguson & Davis Hanson is wrong but bringing on a genuine proponent of Socialism might give this discussion some more credibility :)

There are only two forces that have been at work in the history of man. Frederic Bastiat explained these two quite clearly in his 1850 book, The Law. A must read!!! Some may wish to oversimplify these two forces as Good vs Evil. Or Freedom vs Slavery. Godly vs Ungodly. But the more accurate and more easily understood is Collectivism vs Individualism. From these two terms springs those mentioned in the prior sentences as well as all others including anarchism, libertarianism, limited constitutional gov't, liberalism, progressivism, Nazism, socialism, Fascism, Marxism, communism and those tied to greater centralization of power such as dictatorships (rare) , monarchies and oligarchies (more common). But if any two people are to solve problems through the discussions of issues, it is vital that we start with agreeing on the "terms" and "definitions" of words. Since the very definition of democracy is different from that of republic, we cannot be "for" both at the same time. We can be for a hybrid system but again we have to understand it's nature and its particular rationale and objective, form and function. The political spectrum is also vital to agree upon. It is simply impossible to have a "range" that isn't based on the quantity of government present. If there is NO, or zero, government in existence, there is no ruler or even laws, since it takes some quantity and form of government to make a law. This is the definition of anarchy. 0 to 100% is the logical expression of any such range and given traditional "labels", it makes sense to position Zero on the right end and 100% on the left end. Extreme right is Zero gov't, Extreme left is 100% gov't. Such a spectrum provides a place for all forms of government, relative to its quantity. Consequently, Extreme Collectivism is 100% gov't, while Extreme Individualism is Zero gov't. At some point in man's history, his experience with zero government combined with his "fatal tendency", explained in The Law, opened the door to survival of the fittest. Dog eat dog. The strong living off of the weak. This fatal tendency, "to live at the expense of others has never changed and never will!!! It is a built in nature of surviving the nest possible with the least effort. You cannot get rid of that, ever! Collectivism is where the strong today seek to oppress those not in support of it. And those in support of it are rewarded with the "take" forced from the "makers". You may also accurately state that collectivists are the takers and individualists are the makers. True individualists wouldn't dare commit the crime of theft because they understand the damage to society for doing so! If theft is allowed to go unpunished, everyone would figure out ways to plunder others and society would spend it's time defending it's property from theft and produce less. So honest men formed units, you may call them tribes or communities if you want. But each developed a sort of protected "cell" where some were asked to use there day being "lookouts" for approaching danger or threats. But they were essentially employees of the community. There to "protect and serve" the freedoms and property from violators. A legitimate limited function. So the only proper role of any government is to insure that the freedoms and property of its members is secure from plunder! No other reality, no other system, no other function of gov't can exist without becoming converted in part to Collectivism. And that road leads to tyranny. The very thing our founders warned us of from the beginning. The price of freedom is eternal vigilance.

Brilliant discussion. Thank you Hoover yet again.

I wish people knew about the Russian Gulags and the great leap forward as well as life in Cuba and Venezuela.

Wonderful discussion. VDH NF literate clear thinkers.

Awesome work gentlemen

Ferguson contradicts himself badly when he starts out claiming that today's leftists like AOC don't want true socialism but want social democracy, yet halfway through says that today's universities plainly inculcate socialism. VDH is usually sharp on the response but got lost in the weeds with his CA imminent domain argument: The far larger issue is that the massive architectural changes now being sought by the left (Green New Deal) amount to a nationalist appropriation of large sectors (energy) like something we would see under Chavez. I'm rather stunned VDH let Ferguson get away with this. If today's left got what they really wanted, we would be indistinguishable in many important respects from Venezuela.

Interesting discussion. Thanks.

Good evening Niall Ferguson. My name is Annabelle Almado and I am listening in KZfaq video about your discussion regarding Socialism and Capitalism. My question is this: if socialism is good towards the prosperity of humanity, why the former Union of Soviet Socialist Republic and East Berlin fall down?

Great conversation.

Gotta do something about mic levels. The moderator is like 100% higher then the speakers

Nailed it at 18:40!

I’m learning a lot from guys thank you

Really great guys.

Capitalism allows one to become rich by one's product or asset being deemed popular or valuable in society. Socialism just means someone determines what you do with your life and requires your compliance otherwise your put into the section of undesirables and left to die unless you comply. One must remember that socialism is said to satisfy "human need" meaning: Water, food, shelter and air Humans don't need comforts like: A/C TV Internet Computers Fancy cars Board games Video games and so on

Many thx for this discussion. It seems obvious to students of history that capitalist trade is responsible for transforming living standards. Most people lived in abject poverty for centuries before the Enlightenment, there being little difference in conditions from Roman times to the 15th Century. When royal monopolies on trade were liberalised from the 17th Century onwards, they led to Agricultural and Industrial revolution, which accounts for the enormous improvement we have seen in the last three centuries. Socialism advocates a return to State monopoly of trade, which has impoverished all those societies that have tried it. Some good points came from the discussion, particularly the point about capitalism being an unselfish belief, because it has been shown to lift millions out of poverty. So many of our elites have gone intellectually astray with Socialism, and it still puzzles me why Academia seems dominated by cultural and economic Marxists when their narratives are historically and obviously false.

Great chat.

The timing of this "debate/discussion" is curiously positioned... just before the digital dollar and consolidation into the mass roster of centralized digital wallets...