Now I want to know what an Alan Silvestri Pirates soundtrack would've sounded like. Imagine it was just the Avengers theme lmao

6/8 crying in the background while 4/4 gets all the credit again...

I swear, every time I hear the theme I’m ready to go swashbuckling across the seven seas.

Remember, if you're good enough, it's not plagiarism, it's inspiration. and if you're ripping off your OWN work, it's called a style😂

Between Crimson Tide, The Rock and Gladiator, The pirates soundtrack is Kind of a compilation of past Zimmer work

Under a band teacher who is now retired, each graduating class from my high school got a song that they're practice for all 4 years and would be performed at graduation, my class got the PoTC theme. We also graduated in like an open air orchestra stage....often referred to as a shed for some reason. Anyway the breeze during graduation was blowing just right with the dynamics of the song so all that together... it just holds a really special place in my heart.

Don't forget Hans Zimmer's most influential precurser to this soundtrack, he scored Muppets Treasure Island only a few years before!

Learning that a composer has resused their own phrasts/structures doesn’t disappoint me... John Williams has been doing it for decades, and I still love it. There is no question: If it works, write it!

Came here to see if you'd spotted the little "Gladiator" theme-lift at 9:00. Thank you for being the first person I've found online to acknowledge something I've known for years - that Hans Zimmer lifted his own "Gladiator" thematic material for "Pirates". I watched that battle scene from "Gladiator" so many times, as a kid, so the music was burned into my memory. Then when "Pirates" first came out and everyone went nuts over the music, my ears instantly pricked up and thought "Gladiator!" When I realized Hans wrote both movie themes: it simultaneously made film composers seem more human and relatable, while also being a bit of a "glimpse behind the curtain" to see how they can cut corners on movie scores. Not that it's a bad thing. ("Work smart, not hard", and all that.) I've heard that John Williams has a vault of random themes he keeps on file, in case he ever has a movie come up that may need them. Thanks for sharing - great episode!

My favourite part of the Pirates score is the fact that it is so memorable and hummable. That is something that I really miss in movies nowadays.

One of my favourite cues from the first Pirates film is the first sword fight between Orlando Bloom and Johnny Depp in the blacksmith's shop. It's a really fun swashbuckling cue, with a lot of "Mickey Mousing" of musical stabs following the swordplay, and the story of how it came to be is even more fun. According to an interview with Hans (it's on KZfaq somewhere), he'd been struggling with this scene for days and decided to take a break and get out of the studio. At that point the assistant (who'd only ever been making the tea at that point) asked if he could have a go at scoring the scene. When Hans got back, he claims he listened to the cue and turned to the assistant and simply told him "OK, you've made your last cup of tea". You might have heard of that assistant as he's done pretty well since then - Ramin Djawadi!

Fun fact about hans zimmer's music, almost everything he has written is in Dminor, and you can hear his 'motifs' throughout all his songs. From Lion King, gladiator, spirit, holiday, inception, batman, interstellar, mission impossible 2, etc.

I'm so glad you adressed the similarities between Pirates and Gladiator, and did it with more substance than just sticking both side by side and pointing out they're "the same". Your comprehensive approach allows us to understand Zimmer's style and brillance, but also the subtle differences is his work. I pretty much noticed from the get-go the resemblance between the two themes but I now have much more appreciation for both individually. Credits to Badelt as well, for dressing Zimmer's initial themes in such a grandiose manner. Also, oh my god how can one fire Silvestri!? I must say I have chills just thinking about what he would have made out of Pirates ...

Within the Pirates movies, Up is Down is an amazing simple piece that weaves in the theme.

The connective tissue between PIRATES and GLADIATOR doesn't stop there. So many scores dancing around the same idea. Go listen to DROP ZONE, the track "Too many notes, not enough rests" around 2:00 and you can hear one of the earlier iterations of this. More found in CRIMSON TIDE, BLACK RAIN, BACKDRAFT, THE PEACEMAKER etc. For me it's a signature, not a lift. It's him being him.

Glad you've finally talked about my favorite movie and soundtrack growing up, Charles! These movies not only inspired me to get into filmaking and dreaming of becoming a director one day, but also its soundtrack was literally the first music tracks ive listened to when i started listening to music on my own. Id suggest you listen to POTC: at world's end's soundtrack, and especially in the form of the extended score (it's like a deluxe version that used to be sold on CD, and you can't find it on music apps, only on KZfaq and maybe some old looking sites). It's the pinnacle of the original POTC trilogy, packed with several themes for every character and thematic motifs that are intertwined with each other through the score, and the extended version has the most beautiful 'album suites' that are these a bit longer pieces that are literally the original extended themes (not like a cheap edit on youtube) and it also has some alternate versions to some pieces in several scenes which is really interesting to compare. Anyway, highly suggested!

Where you start to play the Gladiator theme, the first few chords and the associated rhythm is lifted from Gustav Holst ‘Mars’ from The Planets. So many of both Zimmer and Williams’ scores seem to hark back to Holst’s groundbreaking work.

The music is simple, but...the orchestration and the arrangement make it legendary.

The entire soundtrack of At World's End is close to perfection for me, I adore the way Hans uses and intertwines all the themes of the trilogy!

The timing of your video is spooky to me because just the other night I watched Gladiator for the first time in over a decade. Wanted to see how it looked in 4K. As I was listening to the score, I thought wow this sounds a lot like POTC! Happy to see your take on it and know I was not imagining things!

So glad you brought up Gladiator. I remember when I first bought the Pirate's CD back in the day and really listened to it, I thought, "I've heard this before." Back then I just thought Klaus Badelt was ripping of Hans Zimmer.

It really hurts my musical eyes to see that in 4/4 and not 12/8 :ooo

I'm surprised that it wasn't mentioned that Klaus Badelt was also credited on the Gladiator score (a fair bit of additional music as well as being score co-producer)

I love this!! As an African composer new to notation, this rhythm sounds familiar to a 4/4 and 6/8. Most times I use both simultaneously when I compose. It's always fun to watch and read the discussions. I learn so much. Thank you.

The battle theme from Gladiator is classic and clearly inspired Pirates. And I love the "Barbarian Horde" theme, which is clearly inspired by Mars, Bringer of War from Holst. But I absolutely *adore* the collaboration with Lisa Girard of Dead Can Dance on "Now We are Free".

That was the 'epic' period of zimmer. You can hear the same structure and taste in 'Spirit' and 'Road to Eldorado' as well. Lovely

Hans Zimmer's work on The Lion King doesn't get the credit it deserves, in my opinion. To Die For, This Land and King of Pride Rock are simply staggering. The section in the canyon is heart-wrenching and it's just all around epic, epic, epic. I would love to watch a breakdown on that from you.

So happy with this video, I realised this like 15 years ago while I was listening to these soundtracks (way too much!) but didn't have the skills to put it all together. Love the explainer and enthusiasm!

Thanks for all your videos. I always enjoy them. I went back and listened to Gladiator (The Battle and the Barbarian Horde) and heard some Mask of Zorro and what sounded like The Planets by Holst. When I was little, I'd get mixed up between Star Wars Main Theme and the theme from Superman. Some music I'd love to hear you talk about are: - The Hounds of Spring - The Black Horse Troop March (used in Looney Tunes) - Ballet Sacra by David Holsinger

Hey Charles! Long time lurking fan, love your stuff! Just wanted to point out that Klaus Badelt worked for Zimmer from 1998-2004 and very specifically has a co-writing and co-producing credit for the Gladiator score. There is a very high likelihood that he used his OWN material from Gladiator on Pirates while Zimmer was on Samurai. It’s just a pretty big assumption that you made about how it went down when there is definitely some ambiguity about authorship that needs to be accounted for. Much love!

I listened to those over and over as a kid and loved humming them both together, going from pirates to gladiator to pirates. I’m so glad I can finally hear what I was hearing!

I’m so glad you did this one. I was really thinking about this topic 3 months ago and hoped you had already covered it. Thoughts align.

The Pirates movie gave that theme just what it needed - the swish and sway of the ocean, riding the waves! The forest battle it was delimited with martial staccato and hard even rhythm. It really needed the salt of the sea to grow in to its full potential!

This story has been a not-so-secret one in Hollywood the last 20 years ... From all I've ever heard, you got these details spot on! Most folks absolutely mangle these 'insider' stories, so bravo sir! :)

Thank you for your brilliant and insightful breakdown of this title. One of my few classical-style tunes I will play for fun.

I have been a huge fan of both the pirates score and the gladiator score for years and I've been wondering about the dynamic between Hans' work and Klaus' work. Clearly they worked together, but I'm glad to have more clear resolution. Thanks!

the Gladiator track The Battle is right where that came from. I had the Gladiator soundtrack going in the background one day and it hit that part of the theme and I had to turn around and make sure I had not switched sound tracks hahahaha

My favorite part of the POTC soundtrack has got to be Davy Jones' Theme.

Being a music teacher I am delighted with your work. And must agree that Zimmer created a new approach to score movies. Congrats. Greetings from Brasil

You're literally confirming a theory I had when I was a teen. My mother was a huge soundtrack lover and owned the Gladiator soundtrack. I was super familiar with it. So when PotC came out, of course we bought that one as well. And I had to go find and replay Gladiator because I was like, THESE ARE NEARLY IDENTICAL!! Thank you for this video and reminding me of a super happy times.

The story gets crazier when you find out Zimmer wrote all the themes for the first Pirates movie in one night! There’s a demo on youtube called 4:56 am where you can hear his ideas develop.

I'm so glad you talked about Gladiator and Hans Zimmer linking to Pirates -- it was for this exact reason I chose both for a marching band show in college that got selected. So fun and challenging to march to triplets!

You can also hear the "Pirates" melody in the Colosseum battle in Gladiator. In fact if you watch the KZfaq video "Gladiator - Colosseum Battle" and listen specifically from 6:30 to 6:45 you'll go nuts. I've known this for so long I kinda waited for this video and explanation for ages. Thanks!

DUDE I'm so glad you did this vid. I remember at the time I heard the pirates and I'm like.... 'Where is this from..." and I remembered thinking "This is just an overfull version of that awesome Gladiator track"

You can also hear early workings of the pirates theme in The Lion King 2 from 1998! Specifically at 42:51 when they run into the rhinos. Same rhythm, same phrasing, and a very similar melody.

I still find it amazing that all of this "modern classical" (orchestral) music for films just keeps on rolling out these incredible memorable/hummable themes. Way more memorable than many pop songs. These composers are seriously talented and I'm so glad they took the musical journey they did. I think there are a few composers that started in rock and pop bands (Danny Elfman) or EDM producers that went into film scores too.. Daft Punk had a go (Tron Legacy) and Junkie XL is just a mindblowing composer that has decades of great dance music releases but also does film scoring too. So much crossover.. there really isnt a bad genre of music, it just takes talent to make the most of it A lot of people dont like the sound of metal and dont think its musical.. but thats also been taken to the extremes with talent and skill. Sweep picking, tapping, harmonic pinch.. There will always be amazing music if you look hard enough. Laziest take ever is "theres no good new music"! This channel diving into video game music is further proof that if you just look, you will find great stuff!

THANK YOU! You finally compared Pirates and Gladiator's themes in a musical theory sort of way. I knew I wasn't crazy and I just wanted someone to explain it to me how they are the same but different being not that musically inclined myself. You managed to do it and I am happy to know the melody changes but their relationships to one another.

I don't usually care too much about this kind of detail for music/scores, but you made this super entertaining, had my full attention ask the way through the video!

I used to listen to the Gladiator soundtrack a lot as a teenager and I remember watching POTC in theatures and making the connection right away. I was surprised to see Klaus Badelt's name on the movie and not Hans Zimmer's until I read later that Badelt was a student of Zimmer's. It's great to finally hear the full story.

I love that link with Gladiator. But the thing I love more is that it comes after a minute or two of just lifting from Holst! It's fab

Orchestra student here! We're currently learning this in class and im so excited to master it. Watching this video really helps understand how it sounds and how to make it sound how it is Thank you!

Your channel and content are a pure gem. As a fellow classical music alumnus, I appreciate you! Cheers!

8:52 OMG THANK YOU! I feel like I've been being gaslit about this for decades!

My favorite piece from the POTC soundtrack is the Will and Elizabeth love theme, especially in the third movie. It's most fully featured in the track One Day, and the way the orchestra builds and releases almost makes me feel like I'm listening to a wave crashing. It appears throughout the movie with a bunch of different instrumentation (such as in the track At Wits End, which opens with a haunting solo horn playing part of the theme over strings).

I don’t know a single thing about music..but it’s cool seeing how enthusiastic you explain it…and I am actually learning some things !

Absolutely love it. Great analysis. The theme is iconic. Neil Gow is absolutely an inspiration, his old books are fairly common. Ive marked up a hooge amount of his tunes. Again, this analysis is great. Us composers, we unite :D

Both the "Gladiator" and "Pirates" theme have roots in a prior Zimmer soundtrack: Crimson Tide.

I understand squat about music and can barely read notes, but I love your explanations. This particular theme always reminded me of the Russian Trepak rhythm dynamics. Perhaps that's why it sticks so well to memory and has become so popular.

I am so glad you made this video--it addressed both observations I've made about this piece. For years I couldn't figure out if the time signature was 4/4, or 3/4(6/8) because it sounded like it was both, so thanks for the explanation about the triplets. As for the composer, it certainly sounded like Hans Zimmer's work (and as you mentioned he did the sequels), but Klaus Badelt was credited with the first one. A theory I once had was that they were the same person, i.e. Klaus Badelt was a pseudonym...clearly I was wrong since Mr. Badelt is very real and separate from Hans Zimmer :D But I had no idea there was that much going on behind the scenes regarding the score composition!

I spoke to my friends about the similarity to gladiators the battle, and even exactly that moment in the score. It was such a fun feeling seeing you talk about it aswell!

I have actually puzzled gladiator and pirates themes together 10 years ago for my music assignment in high school. Im so glad someone else made the connection. Fun fact, go listen to opening titles from modern warfare 2 and then listen to why so serious from batman

I think the origins of those melodies go even further back to The Rock

I've always been able to hear rhythm and perform as such but never read it well on a score. I really love how you point blank with everything including music theory. It's something I really wish I had more practice in. Pirates is a banger for the ages.

I've always wondered about the Klaus Badelt/Hans Zimmer stuff. Thanks for sharing!

I play tuba in a brass band & having played a couple of Pirates pieces the thematic similarity really struck me when we were given Gladiator recently. Great fun to play, cool bass rhythms driving those ships!

Up is down is my favorite, when they are flipping the boat in the third movie. I really enjoyed Zimmer's work in Inception as well. Was also surprised by him not being credited in the fifth film. Easier way to do the 1 2 3, 2 2 3 thing is 1 and uh, 2 and uh (did that in choir to help break down the timing of duple and triple meter) even though it doesn't sound as mind bogglingly awesome 😂

Bumped on your channel almost by accident and, although I'm not a musician so most of the technical words fly over my head, really enjoyed seeing the comparisons between this and Gladiator. That being said, I think Klaus Badelt is such an underrated composer (I wonder why he never stuck around like, say, Lorne Balfe, Harry Gregson-Williams or others who worked with/under Hans). HIs scores for The Time Machine and K-19 are fantastic.

One of my favorite movies growing up as a kid was "Muppets Treasure Island". It wasn't till i went back and watched it few years ago that i realised that Hans Zimmer composed the score for this film back in 1996 before Pirates of the Caribbean. I still love MTI to this day.

I can't begin to tell you how happy it makes me to get this episode because it DRIVES me crazy when people say that Hans Zimmer was the composer for the first PotC movie. Literally, my soundtrack says Klaus Badelt (I think he did a great job too!). But more importantly, I had noticed the similarities between the Gladiator OST (which might be one of my favorite soundtracks of all time) and Pirates 1. I feel like you could superimpose the video of the Pirates onto the Gladiator Battle Theme LOL would be fun! I think deep diving into the amazing themes of the Gladiator soundtrack would be an interesting video too! The track Barbarian Horde is intense, but the Battle theme is like an introduction to ALL the themes we heard in the movie. But I think Am I Not Merciful is fascinating and I'm not 100% sure why. Maybe its the little bits of melody that stands out from time to time. Anyways, Great video!!! Love it!

It would be great to see you break down Hans' s Man of Steel - It lays in 2013, right between his older orchestral style and the recent more atmospheric one. I find it to be a perfect blend, there is an amazing work with whole thematic material and soundscape (orchestra and soft piano, 12 drummers, superman' s powerful pedal steel guitar with brass and shivering synth, etc) The score alone tells the story amazingly. ... And Pirates... from what I know, Hans wrote that theme in one night right after he saw the film. So the demo is called "Pirates, Day one, 4:56 AM"... ... He was also having a fun with writing character themes for the next films in the series, because most of them start with the same three notes - Jack, Beckett, Jones... Love these little things he always puts in.

Great video! There is also a dark, brooding theme for the cursed pirates as Barbossa is sailing into Isla de Muerta. This theme Zimmer lifted from Crimson Tide (a movie about a mutiny, so appropriate!)

I feel so justified! Years ago when I was hearing the Gladiator music I told my friends It was basically identical to the Pirates theme and none of them believed me. So glad to have you point out that they are essentially the same!

Dude, just want to go out and say that you're AWESOME. I've only encountered like two people in my life who ever shared the same passion I have for music, film or video game related. To see you onscreen reacting to HTTYD, Joe Hisaishi, BOTW, etc. brings me so much joy. I'm like, "OH MY GOSH there are others out there who are PASSIONATE like me about this stuff!" To just sit and listen to some of the greatest scores of all time and just not have any words to describe it (best we can do is "aughwww!!!!!"), it is just so powerful. And then you take it even further and explain it all with some of the best-nerdy-stuff I've ever heard musically. I'm subbed for life now, bro! Keep that flame alive!

Charles, first off, LOVE your content! I'm curious as to why you wouldn't want to feel this in 12/8 instead of 4/4 with triplets? Also, if you haven't had the chance to watch Hans Zimmer's Live in Prague recording I cannot reommend it highly enough. I was fortunate enough to see him perform in Nashville around this time and it is still one of the greatest events I have ever been to in my entire life. Seeing this theme along with so many others he is famous for realized by the man himself with the stellar musicians he was touring with such as Guthrie Govan on guitar, Tina Guo on Cello, and even Lebo M for The Lion King was an experience unlike any other. The stories he told and the emotion he conveyed when talking about each piece of music and all of the people he worked with throughout his career were such a loving display of humility and the power music has to bring us together.

Just love the pirates scores, I can still remember watching the movie at home with my mom. I was around 10 years old and it got me into loving movie soundtracks. Therefor it holds a very special place in my heart! And a annual return on my Spotify wrapped 🤣

It's remarkable that Hans applied the same musical principle to craft two successful pieces. This really showcases Hans's incredible abilities and understanding of music. He dives deep into the core of musical roots, exploring similar yet distinct paths. He's on a whole other level!

Great video again sir, I have one word for you: John Williams. This is the work: 1. Statement 2. Alt statement, 3. Question 4. Statement 5. Concise statement 1 6. Concise statement 2 7. Concise question, and finally 8. Concise statement 1! If you’re interested look at composers who use another language: Jerry Goldsmith, Marco Beltrami, Ennio Morricone, Dario Marianelli

My favorite part of the score was doing it in a symphonic band. The percussion parts are so complex, and really fun!

So he basically exploited a loop pole in his contract with Last Samurai. It said he couldn't work on another film while doing Last Samurai's soundtrack, but it didn't say he couldn't come up with a couple of core themes and then feed them to one of his top students working under him at his production company. Genius.

Great video, beautiful job tying it together with other music

Would love you to look at Klaus Badelt's work on The Time Machine btw. Also Hans got a lot of "Devaluing & discredit" over the POTC 1 score and I remember him having to explain some bits of it on Vi-Control a couple years back. Whatever the reason may be on Klaus and Hans' split we will pro'ly never know but thanks for clearing things up and bringing up his score thematic from Gladiator. Same thing can also be heard in Spirit: Stallion of the Cimarron (2002 mind you - a year before POTC) especially in Fort Escape / Wrangler Chase / Iron Horse Camp / Canyon Chase 2 -clearly demoing his musical explorations during those years. Also composers had to write complete orchestral mockups/demos for directors so I believe Klaus pro'ly worked with a mockup at that point. Whether he added, removed, cleared up, sped up or slowed down, fact is most of it was already laid flat on the main theme. Hans made a lot of changes in POTC2 and introduced new things, some worked and some didn't but at that point in time it felt like he was trying to prove a point more than express his musical freedom so I'm glad he's come a long way and completely changed the definition of a movie score. Nice episode!

my favorite piece from pirates is the track "At Wit's End." It has most of the motifs, but the best part is a quiet choir bit that goes into a huge violin swell. Really good.

I remember playing this as our marching band's selection in '06/'07. He's a pirate is still stuck in my head to this day.

Great documentation, i love it, thank you very much ❤

That first motif played from Gladiator sounds a ton like one of the main motifs of Lion King, also a Zimmer work.

Hans Zimmer: I'm going to reuse harmonic, rhythmic, and melodic motifs from one of my previous film scores. James Horner: Hold my beer.

Wow! This is so fascinating. I didn’t know about the Badelt/Zimmer connection! I have been getting up on my whenever someone credits Hans Zimmer for the Pirates theme, but good to know he is sort of getting credit where credit is due!!

At Wit’s End from the third movie is definitely my favorite from all the soundtracks! It’s just so incredibly diverse with it’s quiet and tender moments and also the grand epic scenes. Plus the scene in the movie is just hauntingly beautiful when their ship sails towards the end of the world. It’s a beautiful piece

I have always internally parsed this theme in 6/8 with hemiolas… weird to see it in 4/4 with triplets

The Prince of Egypt (also composed by our friend Hans) also has a bunch of similar themes to these films, and is also an absolute banger of a film by itself.

I also love his work for The Rock. The scene where they’re being shot at from above. So good!

The Gladiator soundtrack is my favorite Zimmer work and one of my top favorite film soundtracks. Back in 2006 I did a lesson on musical borrowing/homage with my middle school music theory class, and we used the Gladiator and Pirates themes as part of the lesson.

12/8?

my favorite part of the score is from Dead Man's Chest when Jack faces the Kraken at the end, I think its track 12 on the album . So moving and emotional!

This was so cool hearing Pirates and Gladiator back to back. My favorite theme from the Pirates film is the low end Bass and Cellos when we first see Jack walking to the Dauntless ship. It’s a slow jerky rhythm almost like the sound of walking drunk.

Just love your enthusiasm and expertise

My musicology doctoral comprehensive exams in 1997 had a "briefly discuss 15 of these 18 subjects" section. Along with typical music history items like "short octave" and "hexachordal combinatoriality" was "Hans Zimmer." Talking after the exam, none of knew who he was. I still think of this exam when I hear his name.

Worth noting that groupings of two make a rhythm similar to what is known in other contexts as a "lazy triplet" or a quarter note triplet. In fact, 12/8 and its divisor time sigs are among my favourite rhythms. 12/8, 6/8, 3/4, so much rhythmic potential!

I have been calling out the connection to Gladiator since Pirates came out on DVD! I’m so glad you dove into the authorship of the pieces. I feel whole, finally!

My favorite part of the soundtrack is when Yo ho Yo ho bleeds into the theme at the very end. I worked projection in a theater while this was running and I always made sure I was at the booth for that part. It’s up there with HP’s Double double toil and trouble credits in, I want to say, HP 3.