The iPhone Forever Changed the RF Filter

Рет қаралды 177,480

Ай бұрын

Note:
I apologize to Lord Rayleigh for pronouncing his name like the American town Raleigh. It’s pronounced Ray Lee.
About my definition of Q factor: The cartoon you label the parameters on is a 2-port filter trace. However the Q I cited applies to a 1-port trace of an individual resonator.
The QORVO "filter fab" that I mention is not a filter fab. The real filter fab is in Florida and this image is apparently that of a packaging fab in China. Thanks to viewer Thomas for pointing this out.
Links:
- The Asianometry Newsletter: www.asianometry.com
- Patreon: / asianometry
- Threads: www.threads.net/@asianometry
- Twitter: / asianometry

Пікірлер: 540

@Asianometry Ай бұрын

My thanks to an anonymous viewer of the channel for suggesting this topic. ❤ You know who you are.

@excitedbox5705 Ай бұрын

Awesome video. Still hoping you will do a video on Atomera's MST technology. I think it will be the biggest thing to happen this decade for boosting semiconductor performance.

@nomadhgnis9425 Ай бұрын

I find fiber optic to be faster. I do not use wireless at all. I use ethernet for my internet. I avoid wireless as much as I can.

@szaszm_ Ай бұрын

Josh? (21:12)

@sieunpark2160 Ай бұрын

I don't know who I am

@seanjorgenson7251 Ай бұрын

I been saying the same. Go ATOMERA!!!@excitedbox5705

@siberx4 Ай бұрын

As an electrical engineer, RF is, generally speaking, the blackest art in the whole discipline. The tech that goes into making the RF front-end bits in modern smartphones is on a whole other level, though. In addition to the craziness that is the filters you show here, I'd be fascinated to see your take on the incomprehensible antenna designs that somehow tune and work reasonably efficiently on six or more bands, or the power amplification and oscillator circuitry that operates clear through UHF and a big chunk of the microwave band.

@Asianometry Ай бұрын

I’d like to but I also want to stay sane.

@moe85moe85 Ай бұрын

@@Asianometry take a shot at it - would be great content.

@gryff8400 Ай бұрын

Flat foil antennas - also a work of art. They fiddle with parasitic and transients to cover multiple frequencies, e. g. 900/1800 and ..850 or 1900!? Then they add a flat hooked L to the foil pattern shape for... Something else. There are patents and I imagine a lot of inside art.

@moe85moe85 Ай бұрын

Almost witch craft . But then you see them tuning them sometimes with a scalpel by just cutting them

@Braydan789 Ай бұрын

RF information is so difficult to find, especially highly detailed videos or websites that dig into formulas and practical examples. Making any frequency above 200 MHz and amplifying the signal seems to be impossible for me. Another hard piece of information to find is anything about radars that goes into detail.

@mdquaglia Ай бұрын

My first engineering job was designing the "packages" for BAW resonators. Your ability to digest and present highly technical and niche information like this is bordering on savant-like.

@BBWahoo Ай бұрын

How about PAWG resonators haha

@eclipsek0 Ай бұрын

Saddest thing is not a lot of people will realize the amount of effort that went into making a single RF filter, let alone the whole phone.

@ianboard544 Ай бұрын

We've become a nation of users - where the average person has no idea what went into the things like their phone that they use.

@jackthompson6296 Ай бұрын

People are very good at taking everything for granted

@stefanschuchardt5734 Ай бұрын

@@jackthompson6296 true but its part of the progress and movement to simply get 'bored' of the already archived status quo

@Zadster Ай бұрын

That's engineering for you. When you do a good job, nobody notices. Just the nature of the beast.

@ianboard544 Ай бұрын

@@Zadster You get (if you are lucky) a few golf claps out of program management - but that's it.

@bola986 Ай бұрын

Thank you for not having background music

@The_CGA Ай бұрын

Remember when every video had swooshing sounds every time a slide changed?

@chrisvach Ай бұрын

Thanks for shining a light into this little understood corner of the semiconductor industry. Just a small correction. When someone in this industry says that a part cost $1.40 when purchased in quantities of 50 million, that does not mean that you get 50 million parts for $1.40. That means that you still have to pay $1.40 per part as long as you buy 50 million of them. So 50 million parts will cost you about $70 million. It is definitely incorrect to say that you can fill up a bucket with these parts for less than the cost of the bucket. It will be easily hundreds of thousands of dollars to fill up that bucket. I do hope you make a correction just so your viewers do not start to mistakenly short RF semiconductor stocks.

@Grak70 Ай бұрын

Yeah I laughed out loud at that. Based on that price, enough SAW to cover an entire generation of iPhone wouldn’t net enough profit to cover a single photomask.

@Fahnder99 Ай бұрын

I think most of the viewers should be clever enough to figure out that little aprils fool joke by themselves.

@someone-mn8or Ай бұрын

In the video's defense, it says that you can fill the bucket with RF filters for MORE than what the bucket costs

@TehDaddyShark Ай бұрын

all I got from this was Short RF Semiconductor stock. say less king 😂😂😂

@JxH Сағат бұрын

@@someone-mn8or Quoting the video, "...fill the bucket with RF filters for *MORE* than what the bucket costs." Yep. I replayed the video to make sure what I heard, and yep - it's technically accurate. $70M is more than $2.

@csours Ай бұрын

I would never have guessed that wireless communication goes through an acoustic stage like this!

@mikeselectricstuff Ай бұрын

Really interesting and not too niche for me at least. I remember when SAW filters suddenly became common in TV IF stages - ISTR it was not so much about performance as cost. They replaced several LC circuits which all needed to be hand-tuned in production, saving on parts cost, board size and manufacturing time. The IF stage became small enough to fit inside the tuner can, avoiding the need to have additional shielding for a separate IF stage.

@Penfold42 Ай бұрын

And also every car and garage door remote control had a saw oscillator to get the size down.

@mikeselectricstuff Ай бұрын

@@Penfold42I think that was also about getting good stability cheaply - early keyfobs had nasty LC oscillators tuned by bending turns of a coil ( PLL synths were too costly and power hungry)

@Penfold42 Ай бұрын

@@mikeselectricstuff so true. And often detuned by the person holding them !

@monad_tcp Ай бұрын

wow, I though those things were solid state, but they're part mechanical, amazing.

@uploadJ Ай бұрын

The Zenith "M1" module comes to mind. We were using those in Dallas to decode subscription TV channels with an add-on digital board that did sync restoration and video inversion, as I mentioned, this was a subscription (pay) service.

@Waccoon Ай бұрын

This was my dad's field of expertise while working for GTE in the late 70's, after designing their 5 micron lithography library. He did a lot of SAW filter stuff for the military, including the radios used on the space shuttle. In particular, he told me how difficult it was to convince telecom companies back then to adopt any of the stuff they were making, including integrated circuits, because they were staunchly traditional and insisted on building their networks out of old-fashioned discrete components. Phone companies were always really bad at adopting new technologies, and for years, only the military was buying this stuff. Eventually, GTE made a partnership with the Canadian telecom company Mitel, and things started moving into the consumer sector, but it wasn't too much longer before they went into market decline and got sold. GTE was one of the cutting edge giants back in the day that hardly anyone knows about today. Amazing how far things have come, and how many companies (including Apple and Microsoft) totally missed the boat on the Internet revolution many decades ago.

@sentientarugula2884 Ай бұрын

What company is GTE?

@sentientarugula2884 Ай бұрын

digital.library.mcgill.ca/images/hrcorpreports/pdfs/6/637286.pdf

@uploadJ Ай бұрын

The Panavia (European) Tornado aircraft's GMR (Ground Mapping) RADAR used a SAW filter for pulse compression and de-compression in the LRU 4 receiver module IIRC ... a swept RF signal was sent in, and a longer, stretched signal spread in time came out, and vice versa on receive.

@pooshiesty Ай бұрын

Your father must be proud of you keeping his stories alive.

@lohikarhu734 Ай бұрын

Funny, too, how many people think that apple "invented" the "smartphone", when Nokia was doing web browsers and email for. *YEARS BEFORE APPLE!* In fact, most of the technology in use today, originally existed inside Nokia... Was there, developed some of it

@adminnvbs9166 Ай бұрын

Maybe you could do a video on the history of antenna designs, ending with cellphones or satellites. I researched this a few years ago and was surprised to learn the size and shape of the antenna in the iPhone and how such antennas were developed.

@user-li4zs1bc7c Ай бұрын

A modern multimode antenna design is actually a specially selected magical sigil corresponding to the most appropriate demon for the application; electrical signals activate the sigil, calling forth a tiny demon inside the phone, radio, or somesuch communication equipment. The demon is handed a very small letter containing one or more data packets. The demon then steps over to the recipient equipment sigil instantaneously. After the demon takes a short cigarette break to impart the appearance of a lightspeed propagation delay (these breaks are a condition in their employment/capture contract, and if these break times are withheld in the name of improved corporate efficiency, say, or maybe in a shortsighted effort to create a superluminal network, the demons get angry and go on strike and start bashing about breaking all the fragile things we tend to enjoy, like airplanes and time and global causality.) At the appropriate time, the demon places the letter upon the receiving sigil, whereupon the letter disintegrates into a quite beautiful puff of brightly colored particles with an astonishingly short half-life - so short, in fact, that they nearly always expire an infinitesimally short time earlier than they are created. Sadly, though known to be of exquisite beauty, this means they are invisible, thoroughly undetectable by any means, ever, and have never been witnessed. Despite this author's allocation of a significant portion of this paragraph to their detailed description, these particles are completely irrelevant to the sigil based communication system, of course. Under the cover of this completely invisible and useless smokescreen, the demon deftly extracts the letter contents before it vaporizes, hides it up his sleeve, and then slowly backs up in a very suspicious and conspicuous manner toward the baseband processor, and, once he believes nobody is looking, opens it up, shakes out a jumbled collection of 1 and 0 binary bits from his sleeve, closes the processor, and sneaks away. Thus are delivered the contents of the data packets to the recipient device. Of course, though all the bits are accounted for typically, owing to the incompetent data integrity measures inherent in a demon's shirt sleeve, the bits are in random order and better approximate a digital sampling of thermal noise than the desired message. As they are utter bunk now, the baseband processor simply deletes the received bits and replaces them with a perfect, in-order copy of the original message, using magic.

@uploadJ Ай бұрын

@@user-li4zs1bc7c Um, well, not even close, but, you do you - 'k?

@aeonikus1 Ай бұрын

@@user-li4zs1bc7c Best description ever :)

@joew1865 Ай бұрын

@@user-li4zs1bc7cI knew it!

@techmad8204 Ай бұрын

@@user-li4zs1bc7c 😂

@jdbrinton Ай бұрын

Really well done! I should mention that a 40-band phone may not have 40 filters since the baseband bandwidth has also increased. Now, some filters may encompass multiple bands. Its a complicated trade off that considers RF interference, cost, complexity, regulations, and performance.

@uploadJ Ай бұрын

re: "a 40-band phone may not have 40 filters" Yeah, many of the bands are adjacent, so, one filter covers multiple so-called 'bands' ... this is getting into the weeds though now.

@eugen19 Ай бұрын

Baseband scalable filtering applied. As well 40 bands sometimes logical terms since different technologies use same frequency allocation, but have different number assignments.

@uploadJ Ай бұрын

@@eugen19 One observation that was made, maybe 10 or 15 yrs back on an iPhone, we found that a 2 Watt or so UHF radio in transmit within a couple feet would force the iPhone to 'lose the call' (drop) in progress ... we theorized the strong UHF signal perhaps overloaded the wideband front and even with 'filtering' before it, so filtering is never absolute in function, its a relative thing, with the skirts still allowing some signal ingress into the phone.

@ParticularCoconut Ай бұрын

You stopped so early! The story is so much more fun with OFDMA and MIMO thrown in.

@Uninfluenceable Ай бұрын

It's quite the coincidence that you posted this video today. T-Mobile US is about to decommission their GSM1900 network on April 4th 2024. Meaning you can no longer connect to a network with any phone made prior to 2015-ish, which absolutely breaks my heart. This was the last remaining operational 1g, 2g and 3g network in the United States, and the longest continuously running cell network in US history. Meaning that even an old Nokia 2190 from 1994 still connects to the network today and works just as it did in 1994 (so long as you have an older pre-5g sim card). I still enjoy using old phones, like the HTC Dream (Google G1) and old Nokia/Ericsson phones, but come mid next week, that's all gone forever. Truly sad....

@pinocleen Ай бұрын

Same thing is happening in Australia, farmers are not happy because of coverage issues.

@Mrbobinge Ай бұрын

We're not alone. This shirt-pocket Sony Ericsson goes back 15 years. It'll be like throwing out a favourite smoking-jacket.

@deepspacecow2644 Ай бұрын

Bring on n71

@feedmytv Ай бұрын

I think this rectifies itself once they start using the old 2g frequencies for 5g.

@Grak70 Ай бұрын

You can just say “saw” and “baw”. Everyone else does. Source: work in this specific industry. Also 50M parts for $1.40 is a whopper untruth. I think you confused bulk pricing per unit with order pricing. A product run capable of covering an entire generation of smart phone wouldn’t cover the cost of a single photomask for said filter if $1.40 bought 50 million units.

@snorman1911 Ай бұрын

He says"each filter can be bought for $1.40 to $1.80 when bought in volumes of 50 million" so I think he has it right, but then I don't understand the statement about the bucket.

@Grak70 Ай бұрын

@@snorman1911 yeah and as someone else pointed out he says “more than what the bucket costs” then said he felt bad for the manufacturer’s profit margins. It’s just a dumpster fire series of sentences. lol

@jwadaow Ай бұрын

That is seventy million dollars not one dollar and fifty cents for fifty million units?

@tactileslut Ай бұрын

@snorman1911 It's not your average bucket. 😁

@ugarit5404 Ай бұрын

@@Grak70 it was a joke

@quantummotion Ай бұрын

As a ham operator, I feel seen! Lol. Since a lot of hams experiment in the HF bands, they still tend to use coils and capacitors, but, as software defined radios allow small packages to transmit and receive higher frequencies, I'm quite sure that the latest ham radios that do VHF, UHF and higher, are making use of some of the filters in question. The Icom 905 radio allows for Satcom/GHz experimentation, so a bunch of the filters you mentioned will be in that equipment as well. Great video! Thanks for the coverage!

@youcantata Ай бұрын

I used lots of ceramic SAW filters for analog TV and radio receiver for IF frequency (455 kHz, 10.7 MHz, 45.75 MHz) from Murata. Before SAW filter, we used bulky ferite core coil in square metal can. One good thing about SAW filter, other than high-Q and stability, is it does not need center frequency adjustment, which need time-consuming manual labor. things of that old days with IF coils. But BAW is new to me. I didn't work for mobile RF.

@user-el1hd3iz6m Ай бұрын

Please help to clarify the following statement: "Nearly 15 years later, each filter cost between $1.40 to $1.60 when bought in volumes of 50 million units. You can fill a bucket with these filters for more than what the bucket cost." How much does the bucket cost? How many filters does it take to fill a bucket?

@luchianno Ай бұрын

I'll wait for that one comment with proper math, including fill-in ratio for 3 dimensional bucket

@ledorf Ай бұрын

Yea, kinda suprised Asianometry dident noticed this himself when he read the script Scriptwriter clearly fucked up. Someone read $1.40 to $1.60 and went 'ohh, thats cheaper than a bucket'..

@Grak70 Ай бұрын

Yeah that was either bad writing or a misunderstanding. He was describing bulk pricing but misinterpreted it as an insanely low unit cost.

@MithunOnTheNet Ай бұрын

Yeah, even I was caught off guard by that

@rrai1999 Ай бұрын

None of you thought about it for even two seconds, he said MORE than what the bucket costs. It's a joke. It flew like a Concorde above your heads. If the bucket costs $4, and filling it with filters costs $4,000,000,000, it costs MORE to fill the bucket than what the bucket costs. He did not say LESS. T_T

@bradsalz4084 Ай бұрын

This brings back happy memories of my days in the piezoelectric technology department at Bell Labs in North Andover, MA in the 1980's and 1990's. Lucent eventually sold off the whole business to Vectron in New Hampshire. One of the things not mentioned in the video is why SAW and BAW filters have become less popular in mass-market consumer electronic devices these days. And that is because these RF filters don't integrate well with silicon integrated circuits and that increases cost. One is forced to go off-chip for part of the transceiver chain and return back on chip. Instead, low/zero-IF architectures are used. But these filters can offer very high selectivity because the inherent high-Q of quartz on which they are built in applications that require them. So they'll always have a place in electronics. Even cheap 32KHz watch crystals can keep accurate time to within seconds/year.

@enessou Ай бұрын

I had some RF classes in college (EE), but didn't end up specializing in that field. Even our RF prof often called it dark sorcery. This was a very fascinating and welcome trip down memory lane, great video!

@dvuemedia Ай бұрын

I used to build and tune microwave waveguide filters, from 1900MHz to 11GHz. Those filters are waaaaaay bigger than filters found in your cell phones. This topic was interesting to me, Thanks.

@user-oj7uc8tw9r Ай бұрын

As a guy who works with RF antennas as a test engineer, I thank the anonymous user for recommending this

@ninefox344 Ай бұрын

Excellent as always. Your channel is a diamond in the rough.

@b.griffin317 Ай бұрын

Yes to future Taiyo Yuden episode.

@jasonh6262 Ай бұрын

In school I am learning about electronic communication. It feels good to understand most of what you're talking about. Usually it's around 50%. This video is in the upper 80s. :)

@logicae4096 Ай бұрын

As a former computer engineer who has worked on A/D, D/A signal processing I have nothing but awe for RF engineers. Glad to meet a lot of you here.

@barryobrien1890 Ай бұрын

I think you missed the analog vs digital switch. The first tiny handy phones in Japan were analog, utilising saw filters that kicked off the whole high volume drive. When I worked on radios in the early 2000 everything available was targeted to the handy phone that was in a battle with Ericson and digital 3g. The big player in multiband was improved front end receivers and digital converters, as all phones use digital filters to isolate the bands with the front end filters blocking the transmit signal from bleeding into the receive band, and reducing mix signals from showing up in the receiver and transmitter. There is no longer the concept of a pass band carrying the data from a single channel (like the analog tv channels). Linearity across the band is one of the critical features as it contributes to the performance of the digital filters. The antennas are also key as there are multiple antennas with their own front end modules. It's not quite as simple as presented, and 5g may be driven by further integration making traditional suppliers less necessary.

@uploadJ Ай бұрын

I spent a stint at DSC/Alcatel supporting the Japanese PHS (Personal HandiPhone System) VMC (Voice Mail Center) back in the 2000 timeframe ... I did maintenance programming on the code that interfaced with the ISDN PRI cards, the PCs that held the PRI cards ran scripts to prompt the caller for info, announce messages and so forth ...

@jsalsman Ай бұрын

Love the deep dive EE esoterica!

@christopherleubner6633 Ай бұрын

One interesting use of this technology is to modulate laser diodes and tune their frequency. One of these devices modulates the beam with data in the GHz range while the other one creates a diffraction pattern that picks the lasing frequency band. The entire assembly is tiny, but it allows the high speed data you know and love.❤

@scienteer3562 Ай бұрын

That's a cool idea.

@stevengill1736 Ай бұрын

Absolutely - we are saturated in RFI, especially in the city. Signal to noise ratio baby, DC to daylight! Blows my mind how lithography is doing everything these days, and software is doing the rest, eg software defined radio....

@christopherleubner6633 Ай бұрын

DC to daylight indeed. Imagine if you could see all the wireless waves 😮

@romanbriggs2457 Ай бұрын

This is my personal account (hence the profile pic), but I currently work for Qorvo at their Hillsboro, OR site. Qorvo was formed from the merger of Oregon-based TriQuint Semiconductor and North Carolina-based Radio Frequency Micro Devices (RFMD) that finalized in 2015. TriQuint manufactured SAW/BAW filters and other devices for Apple's iPhone line until 2015, and Qorvo continues to manufacture multiple components for a variety of customers around the world, and many of these are focused on RF technologies. Thank you for all of the work you do to create these videos. Even though I work in this industry, my slice is very narrow, and your content has been both extremely entertaining and legitimately useful.

@uploadJ Ай бұрын

What did you guys at TriQuint do with the Dallas Tx division that was doing GaAs MMICs? I worked in the group on the 90's.

@detroxx56784 Ай бұрын

My electrical engineering professor at university used to work for Infineon in the team that designed the RF filters for the iPhone. Listening to his stories is very cool and interesting. Basically Apple approached them like "hey, can you build us something like that?" And they got to work and made it happen. For multiple iPhone generations. Complete madness. The people working on this kind of RF tech are beyond smart. I do some RF work myself, but these guys are true masters at their job.

@bbigboy01 Ай бұрын

Great presentation. For what it's worth, the S-A-W filter type I often hear pronounced in the industry the same way as the tool for cutting wood.

@WalterBurton Ай бұрын

Haha! What a great sport! (@10:35). Thanks for enduring our lashings. Take what you can use, and leave all the rest, etc. Thank you! 😊❤😊

@tommornini2470 Ай бұрын

I think I *just* figured out why I like your videos so much. You teach me new things every video, and you do so without assuming I know nothing in advance, but also don’t drop down the rabbit hole detail wise - while cautioning me when you do need to gloss over complex issues. 🙏❤️

@dls1980fly Ай бұрын

Fantastic video! One of your best. I enjoy that you go into such detail. I learn so much from all of them.

@rjy8960 Ай бұрын

Brilliant video and commentary, an extremely fascinating subject to cover, thanks for the effort in putting it together - I've watched a few of your other video previously and now subscribed.

@AaronSchwarz42 Ай бұрын

Love the depth of the analysis and images :) well done

@djosbun Ай бұрын

These videos are way beyond my knowledge base but I absolutely love them! Extremely well presented and loaded with fantastic details. Do I learn anything? No, but I still watch (and enjoy) every single video.

@ELECTR0HERMIT Ай бұрын

great video, thanks for posting. Always feel smarter, larger, after watching these precious gems.

@faxezu Ай бұрын

Never imagined to see AlScN so fast into the mass produced devices. I'm currently doing my PhD on AlScN for MEMS integration but in comparison to all the other piezo ceramics the material is still so young. Not long ago I attended a conference about piezoelectric materials and a lot of people from a lot of large companies were discussing AlScN for 6G and beyond.

@dingolovethrob Ай бұрын

Absolutely Fabulous video . This is a topic that I don't think I've seen anybody else cover. Great stuff.

@sergiismirnov1505 Ай бұрын

Man, your videos are amazing. Amusing mix of history, science and easy to understand explaining. Thank you.

@yannickmiehle Ай бұрын

This is such an interesting topig. I always wondered how they filter out the right bands in all the stuff thats in the air nowdays. i would have never thought they developed such beautiful chips that can filter out like 20 to 40 seperate bands. You are doing so great work and I enjoy each and every video. It is a treat to get to know all this background and manufavturing knowledge so easiely via your videos. Because when you work with higher level IT like i do you get out of touch with the fundamentals. Thanks! And keep up the great quality content!

@geneballay9590 Ай бұрын

You have hit the exact issue that I have wondered about so many times.....this video was a home run for me. Thank you for all the work and then sharing.

@theantipope4354 Ай бұрын

One big application for SAW type devices was TVs in PAL standard countries, where the technique was used to make 64uS quartz delay lines. They consist of a wafer of quartz with electrodes on two corners. The signal is injected at one corner, the acoustic wave bounces off the various edges, like a ball on a pool table, & ends up arriving at the other electrode to generate the delayed signal.

@arjunyg4655 Ай бұрын

The pronunciation of Rayleigh just about unalived me.

@yeroca Ай бұрын

Also "aluminium" from an American :D

@WEPayne Ай бұрын

Great channel !! However this vid a bit misleading in discussing Q as a figure of merit for bandpass filters. For single channel applications high Q is definitely superior, and can reach E7 or 10 million. The Q of a bandpass filter is an accident of legislation. 5G bands are different in different countries for example Europe : 3400-3800 MHz USA : 3100-3550 MHz So frequency legislation defines the Q. For a bandpass filter the ideal is a "brick wall" which has no loss in passband and infinite loss outside passband. In our finite world this is never possible. The relevant figure of merit for passband filters is "shape factor" which compares the filter width at 2 different levels of attenuation like -3dB in passband vs -60dB in stop band, where these levels are tailored to the application. The shape factor describes in real world how close ye are to the ideal "brick wall" Keep up the MityFine work ! Cheers ! Payne

@bobgroves5777 Ай бұрын

Hi Jon. Love your work. btw 'Rayleigh' is pronounced RAY-LEE.

@nickwallette6201 14 күн бұрын

And, referring to the note in the description, that's not how the geographical location "RAH-lee" is pronounced either.

@WolfmanDude Ай бұрын

I love opening these things up and putting them under the microscope! They look very beautiful! In terms of Q factor traditional cavity and helical filters are still the best. And you can make those at home, unlike SAW filters :D

@michaelmoorrees3585 Ай бұрын

RF, the black art of the EE world ! Radio was the initial "killer app" which propelled electronics for decades, thru the vacuum tube days, and into the semiconductor era. Then things got side tracked, when semiconductors could make these computer thingies cheap, yet powerful, at the same time. Digital became all the rage. But its come full circle, where your smartphone is a merging of both computer power, and RF finesse. Look at these filters ! If that's not black magic, I don't know what is !

@cajampa Ай бұрын

Keep going dude there is a lot more to this topic that is crazy interesting.

@jakewilliams7991 19 күн бұрын

I loved my job as an rf engineer. We made passive filters for cable and internet providers. I miss it so so so much…

@Alexagrigorieff Ай бұрын

Acoustic (mechanical) filters have been used long before SAW in multi-channel wire (coax) long haul communications with frequency division multiplexing. They used magnetostriction effect of ferrites.

@arildschonberg3607 Ай бұрын

Excellent presentation on what every cell phone is equipped with. And there will be more radio transmitters.

@gerbalblaste Ай бұрын

Did you get a new mic? Your voice has more depth than usual.

@RT-qd8yl Ай бұрын

I wore headphones and felt him in my soul

@hepphepps8356 Ай бұрын

Definitively not a piezo-electric or mems-microphone. Microphones is a fun topic, though. You can do insane things with arrays of mems-microphones, but for reproduction of the human voice or musical instruments, a cluster of designs from about 90 years ago, the capacitor, the moving coil and the ribbon element microphone transducers are still prefered.

@RealCheesyBread Ай бұрын

My grandfather was one of the ones who pioneered these filters. Surprisingly I never saw his name or patents listed in this video, but essentially he made the patent that actually took off. Most phones nowadays use tens if not hundreds of these filters, but they're all on a single chip.

@AerialWaviator Ай бұрын

Another great video. Amazing breath in topic coverage here. I can remember Apple's antennagate nightmare PR scandal on release the iPhone 4 in June/July of 2010. The general public and news media did not realize how much more complex the RF in the iPhone 4 was over the 3G. (~16:00) The iPhone 4 SE had much more successful launch. Thanks for this RF Filter video; just learned how much greater the complexity involved was than I'd imagined. (viewing data sheets doesn't reveal all the complexity inside)

@DenUil 4 ай бұрын

Fascinating! Thanks for the video.

@InoueRikako Ай бұрын

for the first time of my life, I have read a full description of those broadband communication. Thank you so much

@Flockman3065 Ай бұрын

excellent piece, I work with SAW and BAW filters frequently for my work with software defined radios but i never knew the history, fascinating.

@Flockman3065 Ай бұрын

small correction though, UMTS(3G) was already (mostly) IP-based, only voice was still circuit-switched

@microcolonel Ай бұрын

I had a conversation a few years ago with an RF MEMS engineer who worked on BAW filters for Intel, it was fascinating.

@EannaButler Ай бұрын

A great conclusion drawn.. Thanks for a great vid, as ever.So interesting... Thanks 👍

@tomholroyd7519 Ай бұрын

It is at moments like these that somebody notices it can be done in a completely different way at higher frequencies.

@Alexagrigorieff Ай бұрын

To elaborate on Q (quality) - in traditional LC (inductor-capacitor) filter design, Q is the filter's characteristic impedance (sqrt(L/C)) divided by the equivalent loss resistance.

@benmcreynolds8581 Ай бұрын

I'm really fascinated to see the advancements of LIDAR and other forms of technology that can help archeology and learning about undiscovered ancient sites, etc.

@scienteer3562 Ай бұрын

That would be an interesting topic. LIDAR investment has rocketed in recent years to target the automotive industry. I think it's tool soon to see who wins, but the story of Velodyne used on the first Darpa Grand Challenge through to some of the solid-state LIDARs availiable now would be really interesting. Tesla of course famously has shunned LIDAR and gone all in on cameras. Some of the spinout technology has gone back into the traditional LIDAR markets.

@JohnWallace74 Ай бұрын

Interesting video. As an Amateur Radio operator and technology enthusiast, I find these RF and filter discussions entertaining. Thanks for the explanation of how these phones cover so many frequencies…

@diraziz396 Ай бұрын

Fascinating. Good study. Thanks

@BarsMonster Ай бұрын

This complexity is really unexpected. For some reason I expected that it's all SDR's and tunable filters and was a little annoyed when phone for Chinese market was not supporting all needed bands in Europe. What I was also fascinated about is cryocooled superconducting RF filters for base stations. Exciting that it was possible to push it to commercial projects (as well as putting Rubidium atomic clocks in base stations in pre-GPS era).

@bakedbrotatoes Ай бұрын

Surprised you didn't mention the IBM -> GlobalFoundries dominance in building RF for Quorvo and many other suppliers for the past 15 years. Fabbed in Vermont Usa, which was one of the earliest Fabs in the world. Very interesting innovations in creating deep trench and air gap isolation for their time. Ibm/Gf's innovations are kind of the whole reason that Quorvo has been so dominant.

@chriswalford4161 Ай бұрын

Very interesting - thanks for taking the time to understand it and explain it to us.

@MrPwnageMachine Ай бұрын

Absolutely fascinating. RF is magic, you did a great job explaining it. Thanks.

@VioletPrism Ай бұрын

Excited to watch!

@Dskoocda Ай бұрын

Would love to see more deep dives on various MEMS!

@e_sence Ай бұрын

i wish i watched this when starting my career 12yrs ago. it is so interesting to see all those company's past history r.i.p. lg mobile comm. department

@kludgeaudio Ай бұрын

In the end, the BAW filter is just like an incredibly miniaturized Collins Mechanical Filter.

@Jemacaza Ай бұрын

Amazing topic, thank you.

@ryanunderwood7923 Ай бұрын

Great video, great topic, thanks!

@amarissimus29 Ай бұрын

All hail RayLa! Snark aside, your work is appreciated. Thanks.

@hugoboyce9648 Ай бұрын

The bucket thing broke my brain :P Great video as always!

@user-qp2ps1bk3b Ай бұрын

thank you for this nice video!

@yousifalniemi6660 Ай бұрын

Nice video! I think a video about RCA (Radio Corporation of America) would be a cool idea along the same theme.

Ай бұрын

Wait a minute... we transform electrical signals into audio signals back to electrical signals and the loss during the transformation is basically the filter. Have i understood that correctly?

@Martinit0 Ай бұрын

Correct

@miltering Ай бұрын

No, the loss is the unavoidable side effect. Applying a signal outside the resonator frequency just doesn't generate these waves so they don't make it to the other end.

@1boobtube 16 күн бұрын

Put "selectively" in front of transform. Change "audio" to "mechanical"? Delete the loss sentence. Loss here means look somewhere else for perpetual motion machine :) In this case mechanical is adiabatic acoustic energy propagation via a surface mode wave. (Acoustic does not mandate audio. Aka all dolphins are whales, not all whales are dolphins)

@Psychlist1972 Ай бұрын

FWIW, the American town "Raleigh", in North Carolina, is pronounced more like "Rall-ee" like WALL-E, not the way pronounced in the video. :) Apple is good at claiming firsts, and I do like their phones, but LTE was a thing long before iPhone 5 with both Samsung and HTC with popular devices a solid year before the 5. Not sure if you actually think the iPhone was responsible for changing the filter tech, or you're just playing the populist title game, but I felt this deserved some clarification.

@zisumevoli96 Ай бұрын

We actually started using SAW devices as sensors in some new Defense Aerospace systems

@bide7603 Ай бұрын

Great video but weird notes at 12:34 I literally had this sandwhich today at Katz deli in New York!

@eugen19 Ай бұрын

Saw filters including fbar(created by agilent, spinoff of hp). I'm rf engineer and used that technology in mid 90, at least 10 years before apple.

@Gunni1972 Ай бұрын

Thanks for giving yet another glimpse into the Industry, which is hardly ever explained... Fascinating.

@mpeg2tom Ай бұрын

Great and informative video!

@raphaelcardoso7927 Ай бұрын

I did my masters on this subject a while ago. It felt really nostalgic to see the paper by White and Voltmer after 3 years Turns out that since the waves are at the surface of SAW devices, they make great sensors. That's what I researched and my group in Brazil is still actively working on

@purpledragon8187 Ай бұрын

Love the topic. its been an eye opener, about the tech in my pocket

@arjunyg4655 Ай бұрын

No shock that Broadcom’s RF filters are made in Fort Collins, CO after you mention that HP instruments created them, spun out to Agilent, then sold to Avago, then merged with Broadcom. HP has had a presence in the area for over 50 years iirc.

@1Esteband Ай бұрын

Amazing! Thank you!

@AD34534 Ай бұрын

Amazing video. Feel free to do more videos on anything RF related. There's just not a lot of information on the internet because no one has the knowledge or expertise to do it.

@sohamlakhote9822 Ай бұрын

Amazing video, thanks a lot 🙂

@JaanusKalde Ай бұрын

As a doctoral student in radio engineering this topic is not too niche...

@frequencywatchers Ай бұрын

Its Not Only Bpf Or Hpf Or Even Lpf Wich Doest Tge Job, Its Hundreds Of Protocols Wich Work in sync So We can call each other without glichesnand misscalls to someone else, its all around same frequency for cellphone calls, its the protocils who keep us safe, but there are people who can listen to your phonecalls EVEN if You changenYour Phone and Sim card every minute, there ere knowledgable people who can do such things.

@ebaystars Ай бұрын

superb video right up my RF street - thanks

@ccshello1 Ай бұрын

SAW (Surface Acoustic Wave) has 3 popular application space: filter, delay line, and resonator (

@ccshello1 Ай бұрын

"Inside a SAW Filter"

@JxH Сағат бұрын

Minor correction: 'Q' is "good", but the bandwidth of a filter has to be wide enough to let the whole signal through. Too much 'Q' can be a bad thing. There's an optimum 'Q' for any situation. Then there's the other dozens of other critical filter parameters. 'Q' is just one.