Can we have a round of applause for the Pageau family and in particular the brothers because they have exposed themselves to the world for our sake.

Hey Doctor Peterson. I just wanted to say thank you for everything you've done for people who are lost in life. Five years ago I was a hopeless cocaine addict, and I had no friends and was lonely working a factory job. I stumbled upon one of your videos, and it really spoke to me. I felt overwhelmed and unable to change, but your videos & lectured gave me the guidance I needed. Now I'm sober and have a wonderful wife and son, and have a very good job, and soon to be going to college and trying to go to law school. Thank you for caring, I wish you nothing but the best.

Hi Jordan! I doubt you’ll see this but I’m going to send it anyway because you deserve to know that you have reached so many people and have helped thousands if not millions of people just like me. As a fellow psychologist (in the making) you inspire me so much I love listening to your perspective and it’s always eye opening. I hope one day I get to meet you. And if I make even a fraction of the difference you’ve made I’d be over the moon with myself. You’ve helped me out of some tough times and I’m sure that’s true for thousands of people across the globe honestly! x

While I am a fan of Jonathan Pageau, I think I may like the way Matthieu Pageau’s brain works even more. Thank you for having him on, Dr. Peterson!

I am ex atheist and i am trying to figure out who i am right now. I am reading this book and i am shocked by the results! Thank You thank You thank You for this talk!

Well, here we are. The moment we've been waiting for. Peterson read Language of Creation. And the moment we never thought would come again. Mathieu Pageau has emerged to the public sphere. It's a good day.

Jordan said it himself, as a psychologist you give someone an optimal challenge that will encourage them to develop and succeed, and that’s exactly what God has done for us. He has given us a task that we will struggle with daily, yet it won’t have us running in a labyrinth. The challenge is to find the way, the truth and the life and put your faith in Him.

At about 1hr 43 mins in, I understood more now why my Dad would say ''read a little scripture every day'. He passed away before the concept of fractals was talked about, but I think he would have resonated with it just as he would with this wonderful conversation between these 2 profound, yet humble men

Matthieu's straightforward responses are so refreshing

Peterson has been absolutely killing it lately

👏👏👏 I'm a Christian, a philosopher, and discussions like this are like milk and honey, the perception of the Bible as a documentation of psyche and reality (as another facet of its religious implications). Good work man, and really insight-ivizing. Thank you

Jordan, if you read this I want you to know that you were for a long time like a father figure to me and that you've helped me tremendously. You do not know me but with my head bowed I've been listening to you diligently for years. I must say that, just like so many other people, I'm forever indebted to you and that you have my gratitude. Thinking about it makes me weep sometimes. I feel like the lost sheep being brought back on God's path by the good Shepherd.

SO glad he had Matthieu on. We can never get enough of this quiet brother

Wow Matthieu Pageau. I never thought I’d see the day!

As someone who went to a Christian school, I have know these stories since childhood... but I have never understood the stroy of Samon until I heard Mr. Pageau explain it... and what an amazingly riveting and self evidently true explanation! Thank you sir, from the bottom of my heart.

I have read Matthieu's book but this talk gave some really great insights above and beyond what's in the book. In particular, Matthieu's explanation of the role of Eve as a "mirror" or "feedback loop" for Adam, and her ability to "talk to the animals" as opposed to just "naming" them was mind blowing. On top of that, his relating that to right wing vs left wing or conservative vs progressive mindsets in society made a lot of sense. This is an immensely helpful concept, because it now puts in perspective the role of the "female" in our life in a manner that cuts through every level of reality. The role of the female (not just those who are biologically female, this means anybody that embodies the "feminine" perspective) is to act as a mirror or counterfoil to the one-sided male perspective. When the masculine/feminine dynamic is well balanced, it provides a critical feedback loop to the "dominant" masculine tendencies and acts as a corrective to them. If however this dynamic is OUT of balance, in particular if the "feminine" convinces the "masculine" to "succumb to the perspective of the marginal" then we experience a "fall" into a lower state, which needs divine intervention (death and resurrection of Christ) to correct! This is amazing stuff.

I love the way that Matthieu avoids speculating outside of what he knows and has such clarity and depth of understanding about what he does. He articulates it in simple and unadorned language, while also showing great knowledge of the biblical texts and complexity in his thought. I love to listen to him, but I understand that someone like him only speaks when there is something to say. Thank you Matthieu and I hope you will share more when the time is right. Your book is fantastic too.

HE'S ALIVE 😳

Jordan, I've listened to hundreds of hours of your podcasts. This is one of the absolute bests if not the best. Thank you Jordan and Matthieu!

I lost touch with my faith years ago and listening to this helps me take steps in the right direction, Great Work!! :,)

This is the most surprising guest J. Peterson has ever had. I'm looking forward for watching something very serious and profound, here. Finally, the other Pageau brother!

This is a rare treat which I will enjoy very much. Great job getting him as a guest on the podcast!

Just realized the four horsemen of meaning have crystallized: Jordan Peterson, John Vervake, Jonathan Pageau, Matthieu Pageau. We've heard conversations between many subsets (especially of size 2) of these 4, but I think a conversation with all 4 at once would be lightning in a bottle. Without Matthieu in the picture, the more reserved and quiet Pageau voice wasn't heard as loudly as the others; his addition should balance the 3 voices perfectly.

Thank you, thank you, thank you. Finally someone understands why emperor Constantine was brilliant in his insight to what the cross symbolism could contribute to stabilizing a delicate political puzzle. He found the one piece that brought peace to the Roman Empire at a critical time in its history. Cutting strait to the chase.............. The imagery of the Cross is the vertical line represrnting the connecting the energy of multiple other dimensions to this 3rd dimension as in " In the name of the Father and of the Son. Then the horizontal "through the power of the Holy Spirit" indicates the energy of spirit as the conduit between dimentions. The body language is great because the signing of the cross is so rudimentary and confirming of intention. It's like dialing the operator for your connection. Also, tapping the forehead draws the attention of the mind's soul to be aware that tapping the heart will energize a 3rd dimention focused message through the energy power of the Holy Spirit. Amen. It's tiring listening to critics of the Cross symbol claiming that Christianity is a blood culture. I wish our own team understood the symbol that Constantine so wisely read into that image and how well it established a code for faith, hope and charity and malleable through time regardless of human shortcomings. After all, the was only one human without a stain on his character and he served as Whipper Boy for the rest of us or so the biblical narrative reads. Of course life is more complex and thzt's why we have metaphors and allegories but religion gives the roadmap to faith, hope and charity to all inclusive. Symbolism of Cross is shortcut to all incusive Agape love not a blood cult closed Society code. The restraints of religion are psychological but that serves the objective of civil behavior otherwise human reaction will lead to knee-jerk reaction and regrete. Religious symbalism keep us in the zone of remembering who, what, where, etc and respect for all others from any walk of life. Picturing the open communication symbol of the Cross I say 'In the name of the Creator and of the Son through the power of the Holy Spirit have a Happy Easter' Agape Salute. Cheers.

I wish Matthieu did more talks, he is great. Thanks for this sir, you've given me a lot to think about.

After long and scrupulous factors weighed out in a quasi-Thomistic fashion, and with thanks to you Jordan, John Vervaeke, Jonathan Pageau, Robert Barron, and others, I made the decision to accept and profess the Catholic Faith in full Holy Communion. And still, after hearing what Mattieu Pageau has to say to a further extent, I am blessed to be part of Christ's Church. All of the symbology, psychology, ontology, prayer, Sacred Scripture, Authority, and Continuity harmoniously sing together in a meta-sophisticated, beautiful and true reality. God bless.

I am amazed about why Matthieu's interpretation or explanation of some of the most familiar biblical stories is so much easier to understand and accept than the many I have heard from various churches over a period of 40+ years? Thank you to BOTH for making so much senses, and the hope that we can and still are experiencing the patterns from thousands of years ago. AMAZING!!!

I can't get enough of watching this guy!! How amazing it would be to sit for a few hours and pick his brain? He puts in perspective so many things from the trivial to the enormous and morality of things or this world and in us. I can't believe they want him to take a "re-education" class! He's brighter, deeper, more complex and yet simplistic of a thicker than all of them put together! He doesn't abandon or hide his morals, values, ethics or ideals in regard to the idiotic idea that he needs to reLEARN them to appease. This guy stands alone in a sea of narcissistic vipers that act all haughty and knowledgeable and Superior. You can have all the education or knowledge in the world and still not get something for its base meaning or deeper connections to other things or ideals.

I love this in-depth focus on Christianity lately. I really believe that it contains the transformational power to restore hope and faith to the west. Peterson continues to do extremely important work. Thank you.

This is a very penetrating discussion. I'm an atheist, and I've always said, since I discovered JBP's learning and insights, that if anyone could bring me to reexamine, reevaluate... reconsider, my view of religion generally, and the Bible, in particular, it would be JBP. Here with the help of Mathieu Pageau. Maps of Meaning I found VERY difficult to understand and comprehend. Very challenging. However, with videos, lessons like these, in gradually gaining some clarity, some understanding. Much appreciation and gratitude for these discussions. Thank goodness they are recorded.

I was really mesmerized by Matthieu's book and getting to know him through this conversation has enhanced my admiration and appreciation for him. He's truly one of a kind and I can't even imagine the insight he'll be able to gather in his next book as he works away from the contaminants of city life. He's like the adventurous hero who leaves the confines of the city walls to seek true treasure, amazing!

Just thank you. I can’t believe I’m able to hear this for free. You have no idea how many souls have you touched Dr. Peterson. Thanks for all your efforts and having these discussions recorded.

😱😱😱😱 I am amazed that you got Matthieu on for a discussion! Amazing! I've been dying to hear more from him since his talk with Jonathan years ago. Yes!!!!

I dearly hope that this means Matthieu will get back to these types of conversations.

I purchased Matthieu’s book a year ago. Just last month I finally had the chance to start reading it. Then here he is on your channel. Perfect.

JP and co are seriously convincing me to open up a Bible and go to a church. I'm real close. I never thought I would, but it just seems to make more and more sense the more I think about it.

This is just beyond exceptional. Matthieu has eyes that can see, ears that can hear and a mind that deeply understands.

Thank you very much for this Matthieu. I know you usually abstain from social media so this really is a treat for all of us! Keep up the good work

Matthieu's book is just pure gold. I haven't found myself so engaged with anything else like I did with this book. Watching this video was also so satisfying. I whish if he would do more to explain this ancient cosmology. There is just nobody out there doing this. Thank you both Dr. Peterson and Matthieu :)

What an amazing conversation. I remember when I was in my early 20's and freshly married. My husband hated that I loved to read fiction books..mostly great fantasy. He thought it was a waste of my time and even repeated that later when one of our children was present. I tried so many times to tell him those books had incredible bits of wisdom in them that I loved reading in story form. He was so resistant even though his friends would read books I would recommend. He would read "spiritual books" but considered everything else to be a waste of his time. Any book that would help me understand the bible is exciting. Thanks to both of you for your amazing ability to think and write.

Hey Jordan, sending mountaineer love from West Virginia, you’re words of wisdom, guidance, and helpfulness will never be forgotten by everyone who’ve you’ve changed the lives of. Thank you Jordan.

09:44 Hearing Peterson realize that the word “point” is a description of the top of a hierarchy brought me joy after years of hearing the Pageaus make these kinds of profound elaborations on such colloquial language. Nihilists and atheists use hierarchical language all the time without noticing the contradiction. The world is a hierarchy and symbolism reveals it all around us.

Can't get enough of these discussions. I can't even begin to describe the level of thought and reflection JBP helps me achieve.

I’m an LCSW and found this interview so informative. I am so happy to have found you Dr Peterson! I have been on quite a ride in my 73 years and am a life long seeker of Truth. You have given me hope and confidence to do my work without fear, in love and Truth. God bless you in all you do to uplift humanity.

The Pageaus are some of my favorite people, I empathize with their world view greatly.

I am really looking forward to this. Thank you for having Matthieu on, and Matthieu, thank you for being here.

Very interesting. I asked myself, did I understand what you were saying. I’m just an average person with not a lot of education, so I prayed before listening, asking God to give me spiritual understanding. What I got out of it is an understanding of how much I do not know, and how high Gods ways are. Having said that, I know why Jesus said we must become like little children. Simple faith and trust in God the father. One day when we cross over I believe he will give us all the understanding we need and want. I thank you for the video and your commentary, it at least helps me see what a great awesome God we serve!

I think the Pageau brothers creative minds decipher these topics very differently than I’ve seen from others. I could listen to them talk all day. The Doc does an amazing job of asking questions that really help entice conversation from this interview. I’m in the midst of a rabbit hole of both the Pageau brothers at the minute and I’m loving it.

Thank you Dr. P! I truly love your Biblical series and Bible based lectures, equally the other subjects you focus on. The gift you provide your audience cannot be fully repaid. A heartfelt thank you from our family of six who listen, dissect and digest together.

Amazing that Mathieu is back. He has had such a big impact ob me, I am reading his book daily.

Thank you for carrying on the discourse of the many truths in the Bible, preserved all these years for our understanding. Chuck Missler was the most influential in my understanding of the wholeness of the Bible, and his background was Information Science (computers, mathematics). He showed the many threads and codes throughout the Bible as God revealed himself, from Genesis to Revelation. My first day at a Bible-teaching church, I saw myself immediately as we studied in Chronicles…body and soul, relationships and life on earth and a Holy God who loves us🙏💔💝 So much to learn to know Him, to know Jesus, the only WAY still living in us❣️

Jordan please keep doing live events if you can, I am in the UK and want see you in person, it would mean the world - currently I'm poor, but going to do everything I can to see and watch you live. Thank you for everything that you have done and continue to do.

To Jordan Peterson. Bless you for allowing God to use you in such a profound way. You are greatly loved and appreciated by a large group of learners and searchers including myself. Thank you, sir.

Matthieu Pageau in a video?! That's a rare treat.

One of the best Peterson conversations. And the is saying something. I love the bible and this will give me a valuable new key. THANKS!

As a youth, when I was confirmed, I was told that one of the gifts available I could pray for from The Holy Spirit, was the gift of Wisdom. So I prayed and prayed asking the Holy Spirit for any wisdom that He thought I might be worthy of. Over time so much has been made clear and opened up to my understanding. I am so grateful to the Holy Spirit for His gifts. Jordan, I would love for you to pray the Sorrowful Mysteries of the Rosary with Bishop Barron. Wow , he explaineds everything so well. I would love to know what you think.

This is awesome! Pageaus book has been a total shift in perspective and he’s such an interesting person... he’s been a bit reclusive on here which makes this even more intriguing. Thank you both for doing this.

I bought Matthieu’s book a few years ago and it’s a fantastic read. Now I have to re read it.

Praise God that we are able to watch men of such intellectual and spiritual caliber have this type of discussion. We are blessed.

Intriguing conversation. Ironically, I wrote a thesis on snake symbolism, after having 40 snake dreams in which the creature appeared polymorphously, as friend and foe, culprit, magician, healer, etc. It is very interesting how "loaded" the snake / serpent and our response to it is. Anything that evokes such an intense response in so many people must be worthy of discussion and seen as a doorway to the depths.

a bit surprised to learn that JP didn't remember the first interview. it was wonderful! as is this one! grace and peace everyone 💜💕

Much grattitude & love from Belgium, to you & your family Jordan, you're so respected and you are a true inspiration, wishing you loads of good health.

I read this book like 6 months ago coming from a secular Jewish perspective and every single chapter made me realize that I missed literally all the profundity of the Bible. This book is incredible

Jordan Peterson this is my energetic signature and intent. I send you light, love, strength and power. For as long as you align with the heavenly father and work with us all in taking down the chaos. You are spiritually protected and every step you take supported. Any sword against you will be blunt and any arrow will miss. Amen!

Been looking forward to this forever!!

I cant believe Mathieu did this. Outstanding.

I read The Language of Creation after almost two years of rediscovering Christianity. I just wanted Christianity to make sense to me once again as a mature and well educated young man. Pageau's ideas in this commentary felt like intuition for me as I read, and it was not hard to grasp the ideas, but I went through a time that i thought I was going mad because I could not stop looking at the world and reading it like I read the commentary. I went through some serious mental health issues for a few months (because I was scared I wasn't going to be normal again), but when I emerged, I was better than ever. I believe this book helped me know the truth and the truth set me free. Thank you Matthieu. Love form Zimbabwe.

Finally this book is getting more recognition and heck yeah-it’s great! Thank you JP

How could possibly somebody regardless of being religious or atheist not liking such a beautiful conversation?

If you dislike Jordan Peterson, then you've never truly listened to him.

I don't pretend to speak for most women - I can only speak for myself, and my own experience as a woman. I find that it is more satisfying to help other people than to compete against them, because if I compete against them I might win some of the time, but if I help them, we both win all of the time. However, it is also important to me that other people know that I am still capable of competing. It hurts when people assume that I'm helping because I can't compete. I don't know if that's more of a cultural issue or a personal one, but it makes it hard to enjoy successful contributions and team wins when I'm constantly on guard against being perceived as a non-contributor or worse, dead weight. I think past eras probably placed far more value on supporting roles, and the modern narrative has it backwards when it makes the claim that past generations didn't value women as much. I think that in reality, it is modern society that places less value on team players and supporting roles, especially when it comes to women. Everyone is expected to be the "star player" who carries the team single-handedly, and if you're not that person, you aren't seen as a successful human. I mean look at what constitutes a "strong female lead" in an action movie - little girls are learning that to be a heroine, they have to be able to wipe the floor with several male pro-wrestlers at once, and still be able to fit in a size 1 dress. The female lead also tends to be an anti-social misandryist, and it's absolutely forbidden to show a male character being helpful to her or possessing skills she doesn't. The supportive female lead doesn't exist in film anymore, and we barely even get the equal-team-player, or any realistic representation of female strength. The message seems to be that if you don't possess inhuman strength and skill, you are just a victim of oppression who has been brainwashed to not believe in herself. I'd say that Joan of Arc is a pretty good example of what the strong female lead SHOULD look like. She didn't go try to beat the English all by herself. She expected the men to play their part, and called them on it when they didn't. She obviously wasn't afraid to take risks, but she didn't take them unnecessarily just to prove herself.

The women's job is to LOVINGLY REMIND the man of who he is basically... His "LIGHT". Bring him back to himself... 😊 This was AMAZING! Thank you both for this!

Jonathan wasn’t kidding, this is a miracle!! ❤

The Pageau Brothers are a force to be reckoned with. They're voices are oddly similar in a way that weirds me out and I feel like their father is a wise wizard ala Gandalf or some sort

I do have to add another comment, this one to say that I wish very much that I had heard or read some of MR. Peterson when I was a young man. His search for meaning has benefited many, and continues to help me navigate the world. I am an ex heroin addict, clean for almost 7 years now, and the single most difficult thing for me as I continue to emerge from that life is the question of what to do with myself. I suspect that this particular question is what led me into addiction in the first place. Today's young men have no heroes, are told that their natural state of being is toxic, have no REAL role models. One cannot aspire to be an elder in a community, because our (male) community is gone. Mr. Peterson IS MY PERSONAL HERO. His search, his questions, his insight, his accomplishments, his humility, and his perseverance. I feel that we fight many of the same battles; Jordan's very public fight with depression and anxiety has assured me that there IS another side to come into when the fight is won. Thank you Mr. Peterson, for everything you give of yourself in order to educate others.

Absolutely wonderful conversation, and I now have two new books on my to read list, thank you

I used to find Jordan’s educated words too hard to understand and yet I have revisited thru the y tube algorithm Jordan again and wow he is so brilliant and thank God for his new found faith

Oh man...I've been waiting for this moment ever since reading your book Matthieu. It was so helpful in helping me understand the mind of Western man. Can't wait to watch this.

Not to ignore the brilliant conversation between these two, but it makes my heart so happy to see how alike the Pageau brothers are, even in voice and demeanor. They both have a gentle calmness about them, and they are both EXCELLENT listeners and conversationalists. I get the impression that they come from a good family that instilled in them the value of courtesy, and it's so refreshing. They seem like the perfect people to be genuine friends to Jordan. Love all of you and thanks for another great video!

invigorating, nourishing , many of us are in tears of all emotion , pure appreciation and open peaceful wonder .... they are saying they feel your good intentions and love for this perplexing experience of body, conscious, space, ... many are also saying its healing and motivating and appreciate the manner and gentle translation of such difficult conceptions, experiences, stories, ... life.... the response is overwhelming and i agree deeply from the highest..... thank you , health and peace all

Fantastic. I just got done reading 'The Language of Creation' yesterday. It was very eye-opening. This conversation is such perfect timing. "Humanity's purpose in the universe is to know God as the perfect answer to the riddle of life and death." -Matthieu Pageau, The Language of Creation: Cosmic Symbolism: A Commentary

It's really easy to get lost in Jordan's description of things... the language he uses. But every now and again, when you follow the thinking through, you get blown away.

I'm still in the first hour of this but man, again I have to say you're the philosophical GOAT of our time. But a philosopher, psychologist and conversationalist that just makes every topic worth exploring. Salute 🏆 Just one request (and those who know him will definitely agree with me), PLEASE get Myron Golden on your show to talk the Bible. It will literally be one of the greatest in-depth conversations ever. I'll be waiting. God bless

I really enjoyed this! I also bought Mattheiu's book and recommended it to a friend. One point I would make is that any deconstruction (or even conversation) around symbolic structures and ideas has it's own built in 'snake' in that it tricks us into believing that we can FULLY deconstruct / diagnose / analyse these powerful ideas and images. Truly, they ultimately must be emotive, images that we experience in our mind's eye with a prismatic aspect of comprehension. The deconstructions are helpful but they (the deconstructions) are not *it* (per se)... no more than the notes on a page of sheet music *are* the song or the experience of encountering the song. Our left brain / rational sides want to limit these images / stories /ideas with precise boundaries; but, like with fractals, as one approaches the limits of the idea or symbol, the more unpredicatably fuzzy they become. The danger is to leave one garden to become stuck in the next one. Great book and interview.

Jonathan is fantastic, but my mind works more like Matthew's. He's wonderfully direct - a true gift of clarity. Interestingly, Matthew, being the more reclusive brother, is more direct, and Jonathan, the more public figure, is more abstract. A great combination.

Read Matthieu's book! I have read a lot of books and it is easily in my top 5 all time. It is unique and amazing and will change your perspective on how you view the Bible and the world!

I can not describe how much utility this conversation offers. Excellent!

Yes, the Pageau brothers always bring an air of defiance against conventional thinking. While Jordan tries to make difficult concepts digestable to the masses, Matthieu seems pretty self-assured and prepared to take a stance. That's what I like about this, arbitrary thinking only serves the tribe while personal, inner stances like him are ready to take on the world. My kind of guys!

Matthew’s comments about Eve are BRILLIANT

His book is truly phenomenal, there are aspects I don't agree with fundamentally but it's worth a read, but I more recommend you read james b jordans biblical view of symbolism, I think reading these two books one after the other is vitally important!

I wish I could of had him as a Professor. He still makes me think twice about quite a few things. I learn more from him than from most other speakers.

Prolifically Brilliant thoughts ... Learn more about the Bible in 2 hrs here, than going to church for years... definitely a game changer for mankind... We may evolve into higher beings yet 🙈🥳😇

I am thankful for your contribution to humanity Jordan.

The snake portion of this segment was so fascinating! I'd like to think that neither the right or left are an absolute truth but some synthesis of the two.

I love this conversation. I love seeing things in a fractal way, I am careful not to become lost. I usually try to do something to record or document what I see , which if I am really in the flow turns out like a mix of fractal geometry and abstract art including other things I can barely describe it , I find that with a bit of patience, and reflection on a piece that I can see and interpret and perceive what it is or was that I was seeing for lack of better words. Sometimes it's drawings and numbers and connections and writings. Like receiving a download of information I try keep myself tapped in as long as I can whilst I note down and or create some kind of translation of whatever it is or was. My mind is usually an observer and I use my senses to help aid the focus to complete which usually is at the time of an inner prompt to drop my pen and breathe . By the way , the lamp that looks like an 8 or an infinity symbol behind Matthiew captured my eye, I find it to be quite interesting. Thank you both for this, it is very interesting and productive and good conversation. Much to ponder on. Labyrinths dont work , nor a maze , it is more like a design that allows movement and flow and openess and ease of navigation and good intent rather than a troubling trap like place or path or trail. It is worth the while looking at landscape design and permiculture design , garden design. I am currently busy developing one right now that is almost like a mandala and there are many functions to take into account and attention to detail as well as careful tending to and re modeling , but basically it's the aim to be innovative and life aiding , no Labyrinths or mazes or puzzles or confusion at all, it is not okay to create an illusion. It has to actually work. Certain music helps me here . I really think that understanding the principles of photography would help you understand light and perception and perspective etc A picture is worth way more than words, it has a great large amount of information embedded in it. Go into understanding the history, development, current, and graphic design , principles of each. They help a tremendous amount. Even learning photography will expand your mission. I completely agree that it takes proof . Application. And obedience. Carrying out instructions and teachings. I'm already busy . The method works you are right , Matthiew- you are very gifted. Jordan , yet again well done, you are a legend

I like that Dr. Peterson actually let Matthieu speak without interrupting or spinning off on tangents.

FINALLY something related to psychology. The GOE has so many symbolical meanings to it, especially those which depth psychologists have found.

Appreciative of the pace, tone, explanation in the new forming ideas in the conversation, the highlighting of the parallels, and open energy in the conversation. For all the denseness/heaviness of the topics, this conversation was accessible and stimulated new ways of thinking. Enjoyed this one, thank you both!

I enjoyed so much... Thank you. I've tried so many times, but never fully successful, to bring to the light this pattern I felt, see through cloud... It was evident, but each time I tried to verbalise it, words were somehow limited no matter how close to the meaning they were. Your conversation brought me beck to a period of few years ago, when I was trying to "find a God". As post-communist child, religion wasn't a part of my life almost anyhow, and during the time of regression to previous traditional way of life, I found myself in very big moral dillema - how can I become a part of the religion, accept its teachings and life philosophy if I don't agree with it in my soul. If I accept it without any doubt, just because my close people say it's good, it will be not better then accepting invitation to any other religion or even worse, sect. This moment was at the same time scary and exciting. I needed to know if my point of view is in aliment with christianity, or Islam, or what ever is out there to be offered to me as an religion. In that moment I decided "to find the God who ever, and in which ever religion it is, if it "exists"." From that moment on, I spend 4 years trying to answer those philosophical questions - what is this life, where does it come from, what is the purpose of living, where does soul come from, and go to, who the God is, is he person, or living force or some other natural force or low that keeps this world not fall apart... So many questions. And all the answers I got was from just observing the reality was this pattern you were talking about. And I felt it, knew it intuitively. I couldn't name it properly. But it was there in everything around me. In that time I met one guy whose life was completely opposite of mine, in terms of spiritual life we had before. He was the one from religious family, and was surrounded by Christianity since he was born. Unlike most religious people, he was open-minded, and he found very interesting my attempts to describe the God. He was my mirror and I was his. After we agreed that we speak about the same thing with the different words, I needed a proof that we haven't commit any logical missteps in our thinking route, so we both agree to elaborate our views of the God to our philosophy professor. After we finished our elaborations, the professor told us that non of us made any missteps in thinking, but that our starting points were just opposite. Mine was from the bottom to the top, and his from top to the bottom, and that our view perfectly correspond. We were both amazed. Soon after that, something happend to both of us - I found God in the way he described me - God as a person who is nothing but pure love. Even now, my words are limited. And my friend saw the pattern I was talking about. Soon after, our lifes were separated. This experience was the most obvious pattern that happend to me since. So thank you for evoke this memory. And thank you for sharing this deep thoughts with us. It's in deed food for my soul to listen your thoughts and ideas. It's very difficult to find challengable and engaged interlocutor about deep thoughts among young generation. It was great pleasure to listen this. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

These conversations are absolutely profound, like I discovered some secret treasure nearly upon every listen. I read Matthew's Book at least twice and was absolutely stunned by it's clarity in presenting these ideas. I really hope to hear more Matthew he balances his brother Jonathan's view in an important way.