Ingram is a great player, you can’t say he’s not a winning player when he’s had a new coach damn near every year, different teammates coming in and out the roster it’s impossible to gain chemistry with guys you play with for small periods.

Ingram is like Booker. Everybody said Booker wasn't a winning player until he got a great team.

Feel like people wanted Trae to be Curry so bad they've encouraged a lot of his bad habits. If you can't shoot 40% from 3, you shouldn't have the green light to pull up from 30+ nearly as often as he does. Trae keeps going for these big Curry type off platform shots and he just can't convert on them anywhere remotely consistently enough to make it palatable. Seriously, he takes way too many threes in general for a guy that's never shot 40% from beyond the arc for an entire season

Bravo on this discussion guys. This type of thoughtful discussion is so much better than the shouting that permeates the shows all over ESPN and the like. Keep up the good work.

Trae dropped a triple single twice in this series. I dont wanna hear people saying hes better than Luka ever again

I have always been a Brandon Ingram fan from day one dude puts in the work to be great and it seems he is a good leader his teammates gravitate to him

agree 100% with Ryen on the watchability of the Grizz/Wolves series....as a Memphis fan, man it seems like every point scored is an uphill battle.....like I feel pretty fortunate that we are up 3-2.....great content guys, thanks!

Ingrams play in the playoffs has reminded me of Siakam's, no ones expecting him to dominate, but he's hitting that groove and just choosing his shots regardless of the defense.

The part about Cousins being the most easily mentally f’d is just so damn true 😂

I’d be interested in seeing Bill and Ryen doing a 2016 NBA redraft.

Brandon Ingram gets a big thumbs up from me. I've always been high on him. The Trae young Hawks reek of the same stench the Harden Rockets had. They'll get kinda close 1 or 2 more times this decade, but always fall short, and drop some panic trades once its all too late. I want to give KAT 1 more year to get his head right. He lost, like, 14 people in a 3 month window. Maybe he will never be right again, but... damn man... LaMello doesn't have it. He isn't a killer. He doesn't care enough. Every time I see him on the court I see a guy who would rather be playing Fortnite. Donovan Mitchell plays like a man who knows he's stuck. Undersized combo guards are a tough nut to crack, and I just can't see him being a number 1 guy anywhere.

All the analysts who claimed 'both teams won" in the Luka Trae trade need to be held accountable. These idiots make such obviously false claims and NEVER have to answer for them. It has been obvious since day 1 that Luka is an all timer and Trae is an all star. Big difference!

It shook me a little bit just hearing that KAT is already in year 7.

Interesting to watch this 2 years later

Traes problem is his value when the shot isn’t falling. He’s usually making the right reads and passes but he has basically no value on defense. When he’s not making shots it’s horrible for the team especially when there’s not necessarily a real second option on his team.

love it guys!

Trae is someone who when I watch regularly goes from amazing to dogshit on a play by play basis in a matter of seconds, maybe it’s just a player who is still young and learning, but it is odd to watch someone who is obviously incredibly skilled, be that type of player.

Trae turns 24 this year. Ingram turns 25. Both have a few years to elevate their game. KAT turns 27. This is probably who he is.

Trae is an absolutely amazing offensive talent playing with a roster that depends on him for shots. He had a bad series against a much better team, but let’s not forget how dynamic he can be and has been in big moments.

Out of all the players I say it’s between Ingram and Trae to be great. I just think Miami’s defense is comparable to that of Boston. But I see those to continue to get better. As a heat fan I’ll give him the pass cause I just watch Boston lock up the two greatest scorers and I think Miami could’ve done something similar.

BI ‘s been doing this stuff since he got to New Orleans don’t play the “ this year card” just admit you were wrong not his fault he never had guys around him to get to the playoffs

thumb nail had the 3 town who produces my favorite rappers lol

I still think Trae is a dynamic player and if he stays healthy will be an 8-10 time all-star. With that said, I don’t think he can be the best player on a championship team. I just have a strong belief that small (6’3 or under) point guards don’t take teams to championships, unless you’re Steph Curry or Isiah Thomas. As spectacular as he is, I’ve kind of thought for sometime that he may be best suited as a #2. At the end of that game against Miami, it was DeAndre Hunter they were all deferring to. I think maybe he may turn out to be “the guy” in Atlanta.

Trae can fill a Steve Nash/CP3 role with a second star on the Hawks. He also needs to add some weight to help with his Defense and being guarded by physicals defenders. Also the Hawks need a better coach

Ingram is around the 25th best player in the league. He’s the best player on the pelicans and hasn’t had very good supporting players. He finally gets a good player in cj and they were just 2-2 with the best team in the nba. I’d say he’s doing pretty dang good

Trae led the nba in points and assists, no number two option and his team just sits around watching him play hero ball. And that last game against the heat showed it was 1 against 4.

I've always thought Ingram was awesome. Thought the biggest mistake the Lakers made in trading for AD was giving up Ingram instead of kuzma. They were considered around the same value at the time, and to me, it was clear as day that Ingram should've been the one to keep

Best basketball podcast.

Speaking on Trae and Mitchell, I think there’s only ever been maybe 4-8 guys that are TRUE number 1s on a championship-calibre team at any given time in the league. Today we have Lebron (phasing out), Giannis, Curry, Kawhi (if he ever plays and stays healthy), etc. and then you have the next tier which is the guys that are #1 options on really good teams but realistically will NEVER be that guy who can be the number 1 option on a championship team, and that’s where Trae and Mitchell will always be. There’s a lot of guys masquerading as a #1 option on a team with deep playoff run hopes when they are not that guy, and only a few can be atop that mountain at once. No matter how good they look for a playoff series or 2, there is a ceiling and it’s gonna end most years in disappointment. Like Draymond said, “not everyone is built for the playoffs” Mitchell and Trae are the type of players who will get you great numbers in the Reg season, look dynamic and electric, and might even give you some incredible moments in the early stages of the playoffs, but will eventually hit a wall. It’s inevitable that eventually the good feelings of some exciting playoff moments, the promise of youth, etc. will wear off and only 2/3 players from the new generation (Luka and Tatum in my opinion) will be left standing with concrete evidence that they can be that #1 option on a title-winning team.

Ingram has played for the lottery-bound Lakers and the Pelicans, and is 24 years old - how much winning do you expect him to have done to this point? The same thing was said of Booker. Sometimes you need a winning situation.

why would the hornets take on westbrick when they have lamelo who still needs to grow into his own more and rozier? that would just stupid and some 2k shit

Last season's Hawks' run is down to young team with new coach momentum that cools over the course of a season of having been scouted.

These comments make absolutely no sense. In Tatum rookie season he played with brown, hayward, horford, rozier, and smart. All top draft picks and had a respectable coach. Tatum didn't lead anything he was allowed to be a rookie and develop his game. He is the guy he is today because of his talent and work and the guys he plays with. A great team makes everyone better. Not just the star player. This Pels team literally has to rely on 3 rookies to be competitive. Ingram didn't have CJ or Zion for most of his career in New Orleans and he's been getting buckets. Lonzo was always hurt, Steven Adams can't score. And Zion just misses too many games. Its a-lot harder to be the number 1 when your getting game planed against with no help than a number 2 on a good team.

Ingram is a really talented player who has been underperforming because he wasn't being challenged or coached the right way. The gap in his performance in regular season games and the playoffs has been huge. The talent is definitely there, as is the capability. He just needs some stability and for people to believe in him. He needs his games to matter.

The hawks don't really have a true and consistent second scoring option. The hawks disappointed all season so maybe they're not as good as I thought. The heat has such a plethora of great defenders, it's far from surprising Tray struggled so much, which will also happen to my Sixers beginning on Monday, especially with Embiid out. Wasn't long ago Tray was pleading management for players. They definitely have better players but he's trying too hard, not being selfish Imo.

I love these flip flopper analyst lol

It’s insane this guy has an MVP vote. Imagine picking bill Simmons on your team. Look at how he talks about players. Friggin Geeks

The lack of defense doesnt allow me to watch The NBA nowadays but I enjoy This Podcast. Really well done.

Ingram always been elite nba nerds can’t see basketball. You play with bums or young players don’t win. How do guys like this has a platform I’m taking Ingram over alot of hyped guys young morant simmons

The only team that relies on the success of a single player as much as the Hawks is the Nuggets. Trae is amazing, but when he scores most of the points, and runs the whole offense he is easy to trap and lock out of the offense. The Hawks have great shooters but they cannot play defense or create their own shots. It does not help that Nate McMillan can't figure out how to take the pressure off of Trae. Trae has been dealt a bad hand honestly. Put him on a team with semi-competent defenders and I think this conversation is much different.

Trae Young is the encapsulation of the “You can’t do what Steph does” argument. Only Steph can shoot 35 footers being double covered and stillbe the best player on a championship team. There is a huge difference between shooting 35% from 3 and shooting 43% from 3. And that is both of their career numbers. Trae tries to make up for that by tricking his way to the FT line. But this is exactly what Harden has done for a decade. Both have all time usage rates, both Chuck up record amount of 3 pointers but aren’t particularly great at making them. But their free throw numbers inflate their efficiency numbers. This works in the regular season but come playoffs, you can’t rely on the refs.

I love this idea but gotta be careful with small sample size reactions. Every player has growing pains and rough patches. Just part of it.I'd say that's clear from Ingram's case. He plays a certain way, hasn't been on good teams, you didn't care for the guy. Now his team is better, you're taking a second look. Not consistent. He is what he is. I think the team situation affects the way we judge players more than it should.

KAT is Rasheed. Emotional jump shooting big man who always leaves you wanting more.

Presses play. "Brandon Ingram" *Russillo smiles* Classic Bill and Ryen tennis match.

Trae locked down Simmons. He's a defensive beast!

Wow, Bill was really predicting the future with that KAT take huh? 😅👏

Love that I said Kirk Cousins at the same time Rusillo did

Ingram is the real deal. Constant threat on the court.

Bill hated Ingram and Lonzo while they were on the Lakers, now he likes them... surprise

At least he didn’t get swept like kd it amazes me how people try to belittle certain players then praise others for doing nothing

This entire video is what prisoner of the moment looks like lol

Definitely pro B.I, dude is a stud and I believe he’s got another level he reach. B.I is the dude NO need to really focus on building around. He has a pettiness streak that I want out of a franchise player

I still believe in Trae, I think what you need to do is surround him with a better defensive unit. Ever since Trae got drafted, Atlanta has never finished above #20 on defensive rating, and I think that says a lot more on the composition of the team than just Trae being a terrible defensive player. Look at the Mavs, this year they managed to become a top 10 defensive team for the first time in the Luka Doncic era, and now they've managed to move past the first round for the first time since their 2011 title run. I think if you surround Trae with better defensive pieces while still being able to retain the offense, Atlanta is gonna be an even scarier team than the 2021 version.

There is ceiling for 5'10 Trae, I dont believe he can be #1 for championship team unless it very specific 5 very good starter team build like Bad boy piston or early 2000 also piston team

Trae went 0-4 on deep threes yesterday, from 27, 28, 29 and 30 feet respectively. It's just the dumbest shit and it kills his team.

Ingram is a potentially better Middleton IMO. He can't carry a team alone but if Zion does the heavy lifting, like Giannis. BI like KM has the mid range game and a better play maker to be the end of game creator/closer.

The way you win with a guy like Trae Young is if you use him like Memphis uses Morant. He can be this booster,a huge booster trough the game but our foundation has to be the entire team. They should like to develope Hunter more,Bogdanović,Collins etc. but still keep Young as the number 1 option. But in that case Young would have to be Ok with having lower stats. But they would definetly win more.

Trae has the potential to be like Steve Nash but shooting almost 3 times as many threes than Nash did. I would honestly love to see a roster constructed around Trae like how the mid-2000's Suns were with a head coach like Mike D'Antoni to show Trae how to run an offense as efficiently as Nash did during the SSoL Suns era. Ingram is basically KD-lite, purely in terms of basketball and what he does on the court. People don't remember early KD but Durant suffered a lot of troubles just like how Ingram did in the first few years of both their careers. If Ingram continues to put in the work and produce the way he has, he is on track to be just as impactful of a player like KD. JJJ is honestly one of the biggest enigmas as a young player. I see his ceiling as a Kevin Garnett-type of player with higher volume shooting/scoring. Early KG was similar to JJJ, where he was so energized and pumped on defense that he would make bone-headed mistakes but the potential was all there. Give JJJ time to gel and grow with the amazing core that Memphis has and we could see the Grizzlies be scary for a long, long time.

This talk makes me think of Juwan Howard in Washington around 1998-2001 when they were winning like 15 games a season and he was the "best player" for them. He was a terrible starter in my opinion, but an amazing bench player.

The BI miss is frankly a knock on you dude

Trae is 5'9 on a good day and needs a ball screen to get to his spots against playoff defense. He was the League Leader in P&R #'s in the Reg. Szn, but when your two best screen/roll/lob guys are injured/unable to do their job.. not to mention defensive rebounding + the Hawks have 1 guy that can dribble (Trae), an elite defense like Miami was going to do exactly what they did. How is this so difficult to realize?

A bad series doesn’t discredit trae ability and last years hawks run but trae did get hurt too and the bucks showed us what a real number two option looks like. And everyone so high on luka but who has won more playoff games

I’m a huge Hawks fan and I believe that Trae either needs the perfect team around him or he needs to he the second option to a player equal or better than him. He is amazing but when you have the right defensive personnel and scheme, you can eliminate him. I think it’s similar to Kyrie, Kyrie can lead a team so far but he isn’t the number 1 option. If you get Trae an elite wing or big man, then he would thrive

With Ingram, I think it's just that he plays for the Pels

Wiggins ROBBED Ingram for his All-Star Start I really can’t let the shit go! BI IS BEEETTERRRR!!!

Ingram is a good player who once on a team that can get stops will be much more appreciated. trae young is truly a double edged sword. there are time when i watch the hawks without him and i think he's holding them back and then there are time like that series in philly where its clear they can't do that without him. Jaren Jackson Jr is everything you want in a modern big except healthy and his rebounding could be better.

Trae’s issue is that the Hawks don’t have another player on their team that can be a threat by creating their own offense. Collins relies on P&R + lobs, Huerter, Hunter and Bagdonovic are catch & shoot, and Capela is all lobs. Trae - a barely 6’, short wingspan and mediocre athlete - is almost literally the only creator for everything on this team. Wish the Hawks could have had that #1 pick in 2020 to grab Anthony Edwards..

Ok might be crazy but I swear they are better if it happens….Anthony Davis maybe another throw in player that’s not reeves for Gordon Hayward, Terry Rozier, maybe an extra rotational player and a pick

Rather have CJ than Mitchell. Also, is there a Hayward and parts for Golbert and parts trade?

I call some of these guys "empty calories." Great players, perhaps even MVP caliber, but ultimately inconsistent in the Playoffs. Harden and Westbrook have been on that list, alongside KAT, for years. Ben Simmons as well, although he's fallen off entirely. As an ATL/HOU fan, those empty calories have been frustrating.

Donovan Mitchell is a solid player. He’s not in the same level as booker, not even close. He’s in the same category as Brandon Ingram for me

I thought JJJ would have been a better offensive player coming out of the draft he put up 17 ppg his second season on great efficiency but his offensive production has seemed to stagnate while his efficiency has fallen off. I’ve kinda hampered expectations. Elite defender if he can control his fouling. Love BI and I think he’s one of the best forwards in the league but when people start trying to rank him above Tatum that’s overrating him.

Trae doesn’t have another top 50 player on his roster. He’ will be a superstar but did have a terrible series. Miami is the one seed for a reason. He’s just gotta get more consistent on offense. I think his career will be similar to kyrie

De'Andre Hunter is the best player on the Hawks. It's not even close if you get him shooting 16-20 times a game. Trae Young is fools gold. Young is more than a defensive liability. His deficiencies exploit individual Hawk players who are adequate defenders or above average defenders. Hunter is actually an amazing defender. Been watching that dude since he was a redshirt at UVA. His abilities have not been unleashed because of so many being in awe of Young who is a modern day Damon Stoudamire with the green light. He is not the second coming of Steph Curry. He is not even Chris Jackson straight out of LSU.

the problem with these guys you mention is the money if they didn't make so much these players wouldn't be so bad

the problem w/ Lamelo is the horrible roster construction of that team everybody on that team are just scorers they don't really have any "role players" on that team nobody plays a role. Bridge Rozier Oubre IT PJ all just score they don't really do much else that's why Lamelo only averages 20 ppg if he had teammates who understood their role and let him run the show he would easily be a 24+ ppg guy. Plumlee is terrible and Cody Martin is their "defender". The Hornets need to get some shooters and D and 3 guys on this team and get a center that can protect the rim and rebound which all this sounds like a whole lot but that goes to show you how poorly this team is constructed. Gordon and Lamelo were really the only playmakers and Gordon missed most of the year. Lamelo has to get better defensively and stay out of foul trouble I will say that tho he makes too many dumb plays defensively.

I think it’s more of Heat defense than it is Trae. That’s the problem wit this social media era. We like to slander players instead of giving the other side credit. Trae is a great player & Heat held him. Trae would be playing good against any other defense, u seen what he did to the Cavs in that play in game

Bane is EASILY the second best grizzly. Brandon Clarke might be better than Jaren. Lamelo is going to be a flip flop guy for the next couple of years. Too young to tell really but I think he will be a top 8 player in the nba one day

Trae a 4 year player been to the playoffs twice one time was ecf with ok splits and the other was a first round exit with terrible splits. I’d bet on ecf Trae more than first round exit Trae.

Remember when people said that D Book wasn’t a winning player…

You can make an argument that Dillion brooks is the 3rd best player on Memphis. Jarren Jackson jr have been inconsistent and like bill said he can’t stay on the court.

Simmons can get out of here with the “winning player” bs. Booker is the perfect example, only seen as a good stats bad team guy until a season ago. I have no doubt in a better situation Ingram can do the same

Classic Russillo and Simmons being incapable of giving Miami their flowers for being an elite team and just assuming Trae is trash. Seemed happy to crown the Celts for stopping KD...

With Simmons going worldwide what happens when Russillo's contract runs out?

Trae young is special. He proved his worth last season that he was gonna be a top tier player in this league. I think people struggle with accepting that younger stars even after a few seasons are still prone to make mistakes and underperform. But it's not an indictment on him as a player. Trae was well defended by the Heat, it's that simple. I would guarantee Ja would look just as human if he played one of the elite defenses too.

Trey Young is the Chauncey Billups of this generation

Ingram was on their hot/cold list because he was a Laker smh he been good

Legone dumped Ingram and Ball for Mr Glass and a bubble ring. Randle also asked to be let go before LeCancun joined.

Ingram is better, but about to top out. He's always gonna be a #2 guy, not a #1. Trae gotta play smarter, but also needs a better coach and a better roster, no true #2 guy on that team, and a bunch of #5 guys. Jaren Jackson Jr to me is the most intriguing, because he's still developing, and the Grizz do develop players. Only worry is, I'm not sure if the way they play, really is going to allow someone other than Ja to break out. Is he going to take that step to where he's averaging most like 20-25ppg? Be interesting to see.

LaMelo Ball! Really? He's super young and has so much upside. I'm sorry guys this is really harsh for a guy with so few seasons to come find himself yet. Then I guess you guys would be flip flopping on Kawhi when he was finding himself 🤣🤣🤣🤣

Trae is a talented player there’s no denying but he is not a great point guard regardless of what say his assist numbers say.

I grams never had help plus he has had injuries to end the season almost every year .

Best player long term for the Hawks is Deandre Hunter where he showed he could be the go to guy, need more of a sample size. He's also up for a contract extension which tough for the Hawks. The CJ trade has been huge for BI and the Pelicans. A guy who can set you up and also carry some of the offense. Getting Zion back next season will take them to another level. Wolves need to trade Dlo. He's been horrible for them in the Memphis series. Get more Ant and Kat touches. Get another wing defender or a dependable 6th man. JJJ is mind boggling. It's a combination of tough calls from refs and over agressiveness. Lakers would probably welcome Hayward if Westbrook is traded to the Hornets even with the injury history. Getting rid of Westbrooks presence in the Lakers lockeroom will do wonders for them. If they can also get Plumlee that's an upgrade at the center spot. Once the Jazz lose the series vs Dallas things are going to get ugly. Gobert has to go. Quinn will probably get fired.

bruh Trae Young isnt a flip flop player. Miami is just a really good team. Give him an actual co-star or build an amazing defensive around him. You have on of the best offensive players in the game and you just keep adding offensive pieces to the team. That gets you no where even if you're name is Stephen Curry.

The hawks obviously aren’t built right around him 🤦🏾‍♂️

Been saying forever that last years Hawks run was a fluke

1. T-Wolves should be on to the next round but god awful shot selection has let the Grizz take the lead. Also, below average coaching 2. The Grizz aren’t as good as they think they are and it starts with their leader. If you get that deep in the paint and command 2-3 defenders, I promise someone is open. 3. The Warriors aren’t the Wolves. The Grizz are in for a rude awakening and will get their teeth kicked in next round. They’ll be lucky to get 1 dub.

Trae Young needs the veteran team around him that isn't so contingent upon him doing everything. If you put him on a veteran team like Dallas in Luka's situation it would look different. I would love to see a more complimentary back-court running mate who can defend and play make, someone like Malcolm Brogdon would be AMAZING next to him.

Jaren Jackson Jr is the worst of all these guys, he moves like Tristen Thompson. He’s clearly more skilled but the skill doesn’t matter much because it’s not effective for him to Score must or grab Rebounds. And he lives on the bench cause of fouls and injuries. He’s a strange player 🤷🏾‍♂️

It would make *no* sense for Charlotte to take on Russ. Why would you put the ball in his hands? He's not playing off ball