i heard a few hours ago that 4 nct members have been in an accident while filming an advert (luckily they are all safe, however they did suffer injuries). hopefully they'll be ok, and SM won't force them back into schedules if they're bodies can't take it. otherwise, at 15:34 i talked about the next year for nct (supposedly), and i didn't include wayv. i didn't have time to explain why because this video is already long, but the reason as to why is due to sm neglecting the group, which leads me to believe if they really do go through with all these expansions next year, wayv will be discarded. it's so irritating that the first group that sm tried with this system hasn't been maintained well, and wayv unfortunately gives me a lot of flashbacks to exo-m.

i feel like no one who works in sm owns a calendar or a planner

as a huge nct dream stan, i think they could have pulled off the graduation concept if they started rotating the members out as soon as their second or third comeback so fans would get accustomed to the system. instead they made the mistake of keeping the same lineup for 3 years, so of course fans are going to get attached. another mistake is sm not utilizing the nct u concept enough. there are many times where subunit members are inactive due to promotion conflicts between units, and having another unit where the less active members can promote different songs throughout the year instead of a large collective album at the end of every 1 or 2 years is a missed opportunity. i felt even more strongly about this since nct 127 members (besides mark and haechan), wayv, and members sungchan and shotaro (who currently dont have a fixed unit) have done almost nothing music-wise for the majority of the year. thank u for this vid btw, it was well put together and pretty concise

NCT Saudi would sing about waiting for marriage to hold their wive’s hands 😭

Exactly. And the Kpop scene is already too competitive to then have competition INSIDE YOUR OWN GROUP. How can you be seen as an outstanding dancer when your group has Ten, Taeyong or Jisung? How can you be seen as an outstanding singer when your group has Doyoung, Taeil, Haechan or Xiaojun? How can you be seen as an outstanding rapper when all rap parts are divided between Mark and Taeyong, who are both outstandingly popular?

being an nctzen is such a wild ride

I think one of the other pitfalls of nct dream's graduation system was that they included 4 members that were all the same age, so when mark graduated and the 4 members born in 2000 were scheduled to graduate next, I remember a lot of fans being scared for the future of chenle and jisung, as well as renjun, jeno, and jaemin who didn't have another unit to fall back on like mahae did with 127. And now that they've abandoned the graduation concept, it created the entirely new problem of mark and haechan being insanely overworked between SM trying to satisfy both 127 and dream fans by giving both units a full album + repack as well as "world tours" for both units all in the same year, and I can't even imagine how much worse it will get for mark especially if SM really does try to give superm a comeback. The whole system is a mess, and even though NCT are my current ult group and I love the members to death, I'm scared for their future going forward. If SM abandoned the concept all together after debuting the members they have lined up for nct japan right now and focused on reorganizing the existing units a bit better, that would probably be for the best, but I think that's asking a lot from SM so I guess we will see

I think another very KEY difference between AKB48 and the NCT concept that makes the former work and the later fail is also that many, if not the majority, of AKB idols are not in the group with idea of making singing and dancing their whole career. Several members of AKB48 are university students who don't even plan on having long term careers in entertainment, and this is just what they are doing while they are young because they enjoy it. For most members, being a part of AKB is closer to being a part of a performance troupe, than it is like being musical artists since many members don't even end up recording the songs or being in the music videos and they spend most of their time putting on those live performances. Even of the ones who do plan to have careers in entertainment, many are looking to become actors, dancers, personalities, models, influencers, etc rather than long term musical artists. That is totally different from the expectation of idols in kpop- particularly ones who are debuting at a big 3 company like SM. There is an expectation that a company should support all the idols they debut and set them up for long term success. But when you've got a group as large as NCT, it's hard to do that, which leads to fans being unhappy that their faves are not getting the support that they believe they should be getting as idols under a company as big as SM. It just ends up making you feel bad for a lot of the members that they put all this work into training and gave up significant parts of their youth only for them to debut in a group where they can easily get lost in a sea of other guys.

Ever since NCT came out SM hasn't released a single new boy group, all of their trainees are destined to go to a group where people already have their favorites (for many years even) and therefore even if they were absolute talented beasts they will never get the recognition they would get from debuting in a completely new group. Some of them, like Shotaro and Sungchan, don't even belong to a fixed unit yet and it's been 2 years since their introduction. For a company known for their legendary boy groups, it is such a weird strategy. And I say this as someone who really likes NCT, although I've lost track of them for some time now.

I always thought that another issue with SuperM was that the American public generally want musicians to appear as independent and not being pushed by a company (aka being an "industry plant"). So by having a group whose whole thing was that they're made up from members of different groups under the same company just highlights the existence of that company and puts "this group is pushed by a company" into the forefront, which is the opposite of what you'd want for the American market. It was just too obvious as a company marketing push.

I think the NCT Hollywood, if at all, should have been made a long time ago, around 2018-19. Like you said, Johnny and Mark or even Jaehyun could have been the frontmen of that group as fluent English speakers. I also find that they are often the members most Western kpop stans are aware of, even when they don't stan NCT as they are very funny, charming and memed to death. They could have easily made them the next One Direction as their dynamics among themselves and with their fans are oddly similar. There also was a large gap in the boyband market in the US with 1Ds hiatus and 5sos (not a boy band but attracts a similar audience) was changing their musical direction. Instead they chose to debut Mark in 500 different units, completely overworking him, even when he could be the saving grace of NCT Hollywood, if it ever debuts.

The failed graduation system is put into even more perspective when you know that Super Junior was originally supposed to be a rotational group as well, but fans were outraged when they found out so the idea was scrapped. This is why Zhoumi and Henry were only ever official members of Super Junior M, and not the full group. In many ways NCT is SM trying again with the ideas they had for Suju, but not really learning from those mistakes or just. Assuming things would be different this time

the fact that nct still has such a huge fanbase even with insanely sloppy handling makes me wonder how big they couldve gotten

NCt was so close to akb and their sister group but missed the simplicity. Having the team named, team N team C and team T sould have been their move. then they could diversefies into sub unite as nct dream ect... Each team sould have a concept, cute/ sexy/ edgy and have member set to a team and each years having the team mixed up or subblte change. Then sub unit could have made special line up like the most popular, the chineses, the japapanese, the youngest ect... And each years a song with every member of the group. Like this the fresh concept of dream could have go on in team T and they choose member who fit and the one who outgrow the concept can move to other team, but can go back the next years. the sub unit should have been used to showcase other side of the member , letting it be easier to change team and make member from different team interract

I also feel like SM is missing the whole trend in K-pop right now of groups being self produced and/or relatable. Like you said, HYBE has a down to earth musical concept that's really popular right now. Seventeen has always been popular bemuse of their self production (and general talent), and now Stray kids are rising to the top for being self produced and relatable. SM continues to make groups that feel detached musically. Sure, I think the members of their groups are relatable, but the music has no personal touch the way the other major boy groups do. The way SM produces music right now won't fly in the US where authenticity is paramount, especially in a boy band! It will only serve them negatively if they can't walk into an interview and talk about the creative process more intimately the way BTS, Seventeen, and Stray Kids can.

I see a frantic, ruthless, cunning old man trying desperately to save his legacy. This lead to a lot of unwise unfocused decisions.

I feel so seen with the SuperM section 😂 I feel SM ignored everything about the western boy group market when making SuperM, instead emphasising on how cool the concept was. But that’s not what made BTS popular. It was the members themselves and their interaction with fans that played a big role. It should’ve been more down-to-earth and fun, they should’ve given them a fandom name and it should’ve been made up of new members, instead of causing a confusing clash of fandoms (If they really wanted to appeal to the US). It was a massively missed opportunity that was somehow too much and too little at the same time and in the end, was a huge meme that overworked already overworked people 😕

At the end of the day, I just feel bad for Haechan and Mark. They are trapped in between two groups and fandoms that each want what they want, and no matter what happens, someone is going to be pissed off. And when you add Super M into there, I just don't see Mark getting much, if any, sleep.

So y'all know AKB48 and the sister groups handle having many members by having them signed under different agencies, to ensure they all have individual activities, Besides, They all get to shine (*unequally) through the theather and unit performances.

NCT's main issue, imo, is that SM just doesn't know what they're doing anymore. Experimentation has always been within the DNA of SM's culture technology. It goes without saying. It's how you can have a group like SHINee who always comes back with a different face but you still know it's them. It's how you can have a group like f(x) that were doing hyperpop before it was cool to do hyerpop*. It's how you can have a group like Red Velvet, who are basically the result of f(x) and The Grace doing the fusion dance (but updated with 3rd gen K-Pop conventions). It's how you can have a group like SNSD, who are the gold standard of bubblegum pop, not flop all over the place with a song like I Got A Boy. Seriously. Every 4th gen group that makes songs that feel like a Russo Brothers movie owes their allegiance to SNSD and IGAB. They were not the first group to give us a song like that, but they were the first group to make it work the way that they did. Anyway, my point is that SM has *always* been the trendsetters of K-Pop. They have *always* been on the bleeding edge of K-Pop. Alyway. So, to have a group where experimentation and going against the grain was their entire concept?! Yeah, that was going to be a huge undertaking. But if any company in K-Pop would have been able to pull it off, it was SM. Where they went wrong, I think, is that they fundamentally misunderstood the kind of work that they would have had to put into an NCT to make the system work. They couldn't just experiment with sounds, aesthetics, and concepts because they were already doing that. They had to create an entirely new approach to producing and marketing a group because NCT is drastically different than anything they've ever produced before. But they didn't do that. And rly, I'm not surprised that there are people who were calling NCT a failure from the jump, because look at the way EXO broke down and had to be reorganized to continue. EXO were my first loves; they were the first idol group that rly captured my heart. You should have SEEN me during their peak. I was OBSESSED!! But, looking back, I can't help but wonder if there was anything SM could have done to prevent three of the four Chinese members from exiting the group. And I say that because EXO, much like NCT, needed a different approach to the production and marketing aspects of their creation. But that didn't happen. We got the same old SM formula slapped on top of a concept that would invariably be failed by it. And people predicted that NCT was going to be more of the same. Because, at first, that was the case. Fortunately, we have not seen anyone in NCT slap SM with a lawsuit, and I hope it stays that. Few things in K-Pop are uglier than member disputes that spill out into the public. But, let's be real; that probably has more to do with the members being locked under an obscene amount of contracts (that would basically ruin them if they tried to run for the hills), than them actually being happy with the way they're being managed. And, beyond that, NCT are a global sensation. The group is massively popular. But that has nothing to do with the NCT system, and everything to do wtih the 22 (and counting; Shohei, call me~) charming boys who have stolen our hearts and the team that continues to support them.

NCT is a brilliant concept that ultimately failed due to lack of planning, poor decisions by the company (along with LSM), and juggling other projects that could've been done later on. The group was able to become successful because of the talented members from predebut and their immense appeal. However it seems like newer fans don't care about the system and what it was supposed to be because they get consistent enough music and content and they're content with that, which I won't fault them for. I really wanted to see this massive plan come into fruition but instead we have a convoluted group that promises limitlessness when their company has proven that they indeed have limits.

SM SHOUDL HIRE YOU GIRL!!!The idea of a US unit debuting back in 2019 would have been so clever omfg. Johnny and Mark (and Jaehyun too) would have given NCT, and SM an upper hand that SM was aiming for in the first place. Yes, SuperM was a quick way to earn money imo, but NCT US would have also been an easy cash-grab with established members such as Mark, Johnny and Jaehyun, especially after 127's US tour. They could have also put TEN into the group because of his solo-stans and well-deserved popularity and his ability to speak English and could have been main dancer. (also with the fact that TEN is an incredibly underemployed idol imo). SM does the right things at the wrong time. Having TOKYO (with YUTA and maybe JAEMIN as established members, for example) unit in 2018 let's say and a few months after after US debuts, where the members first debuted in NCT 2018 would have been STABLE AND INCREDIBLY IMPACTFUL. smh SM. also, NCT SAUDI does not sound right especially due to religious conflict that would ensue on in the future, and the fact that Saudi does not have an idol industry like Korea.

SM need to create a whole sub- label NCT-E (NCT Entertainment). Chuck all the NCT subs under that label and give them their own ecosystem. Then SM proper can focus on their non-NCT groups and the NCT subs can be more experimental without conflicting with SM proper vibes. If that makes sense.

You have a lot of good points! Sometimes I just wish that SM would stop taking on these huge projects and just go back to what they are good at... They failed with SuJu-M and later on EXO-M which I think should have been a sign that maybe they should have let go of their obsession with the Chinese market. They have amazing groups under their belt like SHINee, Red Velvet, EXO, SuJu, SNSD etc. so I don't quite understand why they always feel the need to overcomplicate something... I love a lot of the music that NCT puts out (especially NCT Dream) but I just can't really get into the group as a whole... and now there's SM out there making very vague plans with NCT Saudi, NCT Latin-America, etc... sometimes it feels like SM wants to alienate their consumers by coming up with the biggest and most obscure ideas...

Also I think SMs problem is that they don’t have a JYP like system. Each group needs their own management team.

as an nct fan (and one that likes the music all the units put out with varying degrees) i believe it's not just their system is flawed, but sm simply also doesn't have enough resources to "properly" (or in your words, give them individualized care) manage the units. external factors like fandom culture and other groups aside, i believe sm could've established more groups if they had more to spend. but this comes at the expense of the trainees & members tho, so it's not the wisest decision :// the point abt wayv hits hard. it's terrible that their career path has been rocky at best. the fact that they don't share the same name as nct has made it hard for them to be fully integrated with nct. the pandemic also halted what is supposed to be their formative years. not to mention the lucas scandal has made coming back quite tricky (we _are_ getting a comeback-finally!-but his fate is still unknown) for them. personally, it's easier for me to empathize w/ wayv solo fans bc of this. either they should've been a separate boy group from the nct brand (like jyp's boy story) or debuted later after the japanese unit

The concept of nct itself is incredibly interesting and it can be done but sme will never be able to execute it correctly no matter how much they try.

When I got the notif for this, my immediate thought was "Oh, someone is feeling VERY controversial today, huh?!". And I love it!! Please!! Expose SM for their crimes against NCT!! Those boys deserve so much more than the bullshit SM has been giving them.

this video predicted the future 💀

Honestly, after NCT Tokyo (I presume that’s the Sungchan, Shotaro, and rookies Shohei, Eunseok, and Seunghan unit), SM needs to take a step back with NCT. Either get a better understanding of the market to continue the system effectively, or just end it at Tokyo and manage the members in place. Either way, they should probably also figure out how they could possibly debut a boy group that’s unrelated to NCT after Tokyo’s debut.

i honestly think it would've been easier to actually implement the dream graduation system if they added at least one member before mark graduated. rather than feeling like the group was losing a member it would've been just how the graduation system would have worked. having the same members for multiple years and then pulling the rug out from under fans. also, if an nct u unit had a second song together i think the diehard dream stans would have seen that there would be a way to reunite the og dream line and been more okay with the lineup changing. just generally sm seemed to not know exactly what to do with dream (and still kinda do bc now they don't have anything to distinguish them from other units musically)

Absolutely not fussed with NCT's visual director changing. Those grownass men in schoolboy uniforms give me hives.

As someone who's not an NCTzen, this is the best explanation of the system I've seen. I really feel for the boys because it does seem like a really hard way to work.

as an nctzen, the fear is real even now, wayv (my fav of the subunits) is set to come back and we dont even know if lucas will be incuded lee soo man is too flaky with nct.

Another thing to consider is the fact that when they debuted, they broke ground for being experimental and having a unique sound. But now, everyone is experimental and they have put NCT’s sound into one type of experimental

All I know is that mark and haechan needs a break. SM only gave haechan a little break and now he’s back on tour.

SuperM was such a disaster and created a ton of bad feelings from EXO-L’s who weren’t Baekhyun and Kai solo stans. I’m paraphrasing, but I remember how LSM was confident EXO-L’s would be okay with it since “we’re all one big happy family”. And I can’t forget SM was hyping them tf out meanwhile EXO SC debuted and got absolutely nothing from SM. They freaking debuted at a concert. And can’t forget how SuperM caused EXO’s Obsession comeback to be delayed and rushed.

Nct Saudi omg what a crime imagine nct vatican for the christian nation & what are they going to sing about the prophet’s blessings while walking the imaginary line city???

I feel for all the members of NCT. They don’t deserve any of this. I honestly wish we could go back in time and restart this whole thing over. Because personally I love the idea of a “limitless” group that has many members, but I don’t like how SM approached this. SM just ended up mistreating every single member in NCT.

I really wish that SM would just market good pop groups, rather than trying to sell concepts and brands. SNSD, Super Junior, SHINee, and f(x) were so simple. Talented idols, great music. That's it. Then every group after that had a more complex concept that just seemed unnecessary. Honestly, I'd be WAY more into NCT or Aespa if they just released good music rather than trying to sell me on an ever expanding rotation concept or a AI multiverse. Who needs that shit?

What's sad is that NCT(all units ) have some of the best idols in kpop rn, all of them are good vocalists performers rappers and dancers. SM really have gemsbit one of SM problem is that they seem to get bored quickly and tend to let down some group. Red Velvet is extremely talented yet they don't promote them as they should. Exo situation just look like they fumbled the bag willingly. Also SM want nct to be worldwide but still fail to not be discriminatory towards foreign members, Japanese are tolerate and Chinese are disregarded...

Ugh all of this is so true. I've had so many conversations with fellow Nctzens about the mess that is NCT and how to fix it. NCT in many ways were doomed since SM Rookies era and the attachments formed then and it's only gotten worse. Ten, Johnny and Doyoung being promoted heavily during predebut just to not be in units for 1-3 years after debut was a mess. As for Dream, the graduation system was an issue from the very beginning. I'm glad you mentioned the gender politics at play because Kpop stans have further, longterm attachments to their idols especially boy group stans. Promoting Mark, Jeno, Haechan, Jaemin and Jisung for years prior to the group debuting already netted them early fans to the point they were called Baby Shinki. People were anticipating them to debut together and stay together. Putting them in a rotational group with no clear future was such an ill advised idea. Even if they had replacement members ready to go I can't imagine it would have gone well looking back at Yeri's introduction to Red Velvet and Kyuhyun's addition to Super Junior. Both still receive hate to this day and they were added relatively early into their groups' careers! It's laughable to think what actually would've happened in 2019 if they committed to the concept. Now it's just a macguffin in every argument ever. Like somehow SM would magically be a better company if they just stuck with the graduation system despite history pointing to the opposite. Being an Nctzens is draining sometimes because truly I love the boys they are talented, amazing idols but the system they are apart of does absolutely nothing for them or fans.

Not only NiziU and &team, not releasing nct tokyo before Produce’s 101 JAPAN group JO1 (a japanese group with kpop structure) was also a mistake, because JO1 came to Japan with the premise of being “jpop with a kpop feel” back in 2019, fast foward to 2022 JO1 is HUGE in japan.

Nct is incredibly popular, always appearing on male brand reputation, selling a lot, having stable streams. While BTS and Exo are on hiatus and slowing going into solo route, NCT, Seventeen and Stray kids are the only boygroups that are unaffected by the dry desert that 4th rookies faced in 2022, their sells werent affected by the girlgroups, like usual, due the fact boygroups have die hard fandoms. Im included, I love sm groups, I am exol,my, reveluv and nctzen, but all these groups share the same issue: SM never backs up for nothing. Scandals? They leave their idols to relay on silence and being on radio silence for a while. Packed schedules for certain members and lack of anything for others? All sm groups face this. It is a repetitive problem bc SM doesnt have separated divisions like HYBE does, at least, Hybe have a different staff or labels to plan and manage BTS, other for Newjeans, other for Le sserafim, etc. Wayv tried to be completely independent, with chinese label, focused on china market. But what happened to wayv as soon they faced ONE scandal? Hiatus. Only sm stations to please the already small chinese and international fandom. And I still believe in Nct weird eternal subunits. But SM needs to evolve in their way of managing, scheduling and even choosing their subunits. 1-Excess of schedules on Mark and Haechan 2-Giving 127 noise dark edm sound to Dream, ruining the Dream colorpop noise characteristic 3-Wayv having almost zero group schedules, making it even more unpopular and forgotten 4-Nct Japan already should have debuted...They have tons of japanese rookies just doing nothing in the basement 5-Nct U events shouldnt be every year. Nct debuts should only exist if the members are set to debut in some subunit, instead of doing crumbs like Shotaro and Sungchan are suffering 6- The biggest issue any bg faces: the popular korean members will enlist! Time to search and favour another popular members to replace while those idols are enlisted! But SM keeps obsessed on Taeyong...even tho he deserves...nct cant be eternally be around him. 7-Nct is badly protected by sasaengs, they are overworked, and dont get me started how WayV, Yuta and Shotaro receive different treatment from the korean members.

On the topic of SuperM, i saw so many American/Western K-pop fans unable to get behind the group due to the name. Like SuperM looks like Sperm. So many people couldn't take it seriously. Not to mention, Jopping was just Not. It. The song was definitely not something that would survive the general American market.

The NCT concept was a brave endeavor and to maintain it, we need a new set of brave people around the decision making table to say okay let's pause on the concept and start enriching the careers of the current 23 members, once they're stable and thriving we can look at adding again.

Queen, we need another video like this. I love your deep dives.

And also they always use most popular members for every comeback other members are always in sm dungeon

This just highlights how bad SM at marketing overall. They do not focus on the existing success that they have, and move onto the next group, which gives fans fatigue, while being upset about the lack of promotion for their current faves

I think what SM should’ve done while creating SuperM trying to appeal to westerners it’s not to look at BTS success but to look back at f(x). f(x) was the first K-pop group to achieve critical acclaim, many respectable critics put “Pink Tape” in their top albums of that year. SM could’ve made not another the biggest boy band but a respectable and critically-acclaimed group with maybe moderate success but a pretty strong fanbase. K-pop has a lot of stigma around it and breaking the chain of this mindset that K-pop is just bunch of manufactured pretty boys for teenage girls to fantasise about would be pretty helpful for the whole industry. SM could select artist who are in control of their art, idols who can write and produce and pair with up and coming experimental producers. And instead of promoting them at random american talk shows put them in the lineups of musical festivals. This would be an extremely risky move but if everything works out they can become the poster child of kpop. I know this is a pretty dumb idea but seeing SM’s desire to experiment I think they could’ve made it

Im two minutes in and I can already tell this is gonna be great. Im really glad to see someone take a more academic view on K-pop with a bit of professional distance to the emotional part of the culture.

when i first heard about all these companies branching out to the west i immediately lost interest. not only are they upsetting SK fans but (as seen with SuperM) they'll just lose a bunch of money trying to promote the groups and get them on talk shows only for them to gain a bit of popularity through general curiosity and eventually have that hype die down. it's so annoying how every single company wants to have their own BTS (or multiple BTS') and the only way they can think to do that is have an American based group... like no, BTS' American debut wasn't what made them so popular and have this large, dedicated fanbase. they're worldwide. and yes, it helped get their name out and helped introduce K-pop to the western industry, but ARMY love BTS because of who they are, what they stand for, and how genuine and down to earth they are. not to mention their western growth was organic. they were never planning on debuting on American talk shows and award shows back in 2013, they worked hard and grew organically and eventually they were able to do all those things 3-4 years into their career. debuting idols in America with a silver spoon in their mouth isn't going to do them any good and even if they make music completely in English, nothing's going to change because BTS has already dominated every single English-speaking boy group out there.

I don't know about the system but nct past albums really hit a lot year later. I listened to universe albums songs like round and round, vroom and sweet dream. They sound sooooo goooodddd. Soooo good. The bsides are soooo gooooddd. Why are those songs hitting more than a year ago??? Sm what conspiracy is this???

Honestly there is an advantage of NCT system where we still can not see yet judging how all the units still strive, active, and do well in the music industry: old members will never be forgotten. Let's say 5-10 years later when NCT is being overtaken by new young members being heavily promoted, the rotation system in NCT U consisting old members would be received by general public with open arms. Older boygroups would not have this advantage, because they stuck with the members in their group; so when they grow old, their fandom would consist of only older people too. Meanwhile NCT would have a big fandom consisting older and younger diverse fans, so dynamic that even say Taeil and Johnny would still get the spotlight. But yeah, we can't see it yet and no idea if we ever will considering SM might drop the system halfway. But to me rather than a broken system, the problem with NCT is more leaning towards improper management.

A lot of the issues the past 2 years were due to events needing to be rescheduled due to Covid, it changed 127's Japan concerts as well as Dream having to reschedule events due to members testing positive at one time or another. And since they share Mark and HaeChan, it influences all the other schedules of those two groups as well and since none of those members will be in the new units, they'll be treated as their own thing outside full brand promotions. WayV has been affected by a sandal, then solo schedules. Fans constantly talking about the downfall of NCT is a bigger threat to them than any scheduling on SM's part tbh. NcTzens have an issue of constantly begging for content without putting in the work or appreciation when it's actually delivered.

completely wasted potentional all bc of bad timing and poor pop culture understanding. idk what sme is doing rn but i think they should just leave nct as it is rn

For the rapidly growing fandom...I'm afraid WayV is growing too slowly.

It will be hard for a kpop group to get the American general public support. Most kpop groups don't even have support from the Korean general public. General public music taste don't fit what's being put out by 4th gen boy groups. First pop groups aren't liked in general. Mainly solo artists are liked more and chart well. Americans don't like the kpop system. They would rather a singer attend a music school/self taught than be trained by a company. If the group is going to incorporate rappers, they have to be good. Fortunately, K-pop is going away from "idol" rappers. I actually think it would be more beneficial to have no rappers. The general public pop stations usually like cutting out the rap parts of songs anyway. When it comes to kpop, Americans only know BTS, and BTS became more known because of the fandom. That is what made American media want to interview them and play their music on the radio. The fandom was getting big and good at organizing. I think the only way this could work is having a diverse group of Asian Americans promote in America on the small scale and work their way up. Americans tend to like an underdog story. Which is another reason why BTS was well received compared to other kpop groups.

Ive been here enough to be the cool aunt of the nct maknaes (lol) and I can tell you that SMs MAIN issue is Lee SooMan. He has stayed in 2008 since 2008 and thinks he rules de world. The main reason why ALL of his chinese projects failed is that he and SM has refused to adapt to China. When Exo M existed freaking Kris Wu had to translate for everybody, including management (while sm was a huuuge company during the Exo era and could afford a translator), SM thought they were the ish, like they were in South Korea where they had all the media eating out of the palm of their hand. The chinese audience was hungry for a kpop group of their own, M was doing better than K so they CHOSE the "best" option was to bring M to Korea, to save K and thus causing discomfort with the chinese members that had been promised to work in their homeland. After tht, they never, no matter what the fans or anybody says, recovered from the BTS take over, they never saw it coming and they never recovered. And they had the AUDICITY of blaming the Exo members! for the lost of SM crown within the Big3. Nobody will convince me that SM single handly destroyed Exo out of spite. And I talk about Exo because they were the ONLY kpop act that couldve taken over BTS, at the time they had the fanbase power and they were a more cohesive group talent ways (sorry BTS). I saw that, you saw that, SM didnt. And Im not even a fan of nct but honestly it angers me to know that all these kids had their dreams and whole life put into this project and SM gives a damn. 🤦🏻‍♀️.

From a marketing standpoint: It should have been NCT West rather than Hollywood. Debuting line up: Johnny, Mark, Ten, Jaehyun + Chenle/Renjun providing backing vocals (especially if an investment in increasing their English proficiency was made risky by time limitations) + YangYang joining later to define the rap line/bring that true GenZ energy. It’s not like BTS released music remotely similar to their earlier works during the “takeover”. The key was featuring a U.S. artist with significant recent success in Pop and eventually releasing songs in English. SM had more than enough power to secure such a feature. But, even if they just released tracks with the unit mentioned above under “foreign swaggers”, we’d be having a very different conversation!

You really articulate my issues with NCT's concept/system. I would consider myself as someone who likes NCT, but I'm extremely frustrated with the direction the group has gone in. It seems like SM wants NCT's concept to exist, but they've put no effort into making the concept actually work. Not to mention, I think SM has gotten lazy with NCT 127's music and is recycling a lot of the same musical formulas for all of their albums, while NCT Dream at least has some diversity in the music they've been releasing. WayV and NCT U have practically been neglected entirely. NCT's concept has only been detrimental to its members. Mark and Haechan are overworked to death between 127 and Dream (+ Mark with SuperM). The rest of the Dream and 127 members haven't been given any opportunities to shine outside of the group, and they aren't marketed to the extent that Mark, Haechan, and even Taeyong are. Other than Taeyong and Mark, the members aren't consistently involved in the music production/writing process, so it seems like they have no control over the direction of the group. Everything NCT do is dictated by the SM overlords. On a slightly unrelated note, I wonder if NCT Hollywood will be able to make any sort of wave in the US. Kpop as a whole is already known in the US, and most people have decided they either love it or hate it. It's unlikely that another kpop group will be able to capture the attention of the general public the way BTS, BlackPink, and now NewJeans (to some extent) have managed to do. And even then, BTS did not gain mainstream popularity in America because the American general public loved them from the get-go; BTS became mainstream because they had a massive fanbase that forcibly carried them into the limelight and made Americans pay attention to them. NCT is not like BTS at all. NCT represents the extremes of the kpop industry - extremely large group, extremely divisive music, and extremely conceptual. While NCT's stans and other kpop fans may love and defend the neo sound, American consumers do not prefer this type of conceptual music; they prefer music born out of an organic passion for the art. Even if SM debut NCT Hollywood in 2023 before any other label can debut their American groups, NCT Hollywood likely won't thrive. Unless SM have NCT Hollywood ditch the neo sound and truly make NCT Hollywood's music and concept distinct from the other NCT subunits (and from kpop as a whole), I don't see NCT Hollywood becoming any more successful than SuperM was and definitely not as mainstream as BTS is.

12:29 still baffles me how SuperM from all groups managed to block Blackpink's debut album to reach number one on Billboard. Everything about that group felt fake and forced

thank you for pointing out the flaws of sm's management of nct. that company needs to get it together if they want the brand to succeed. i was intrigued with the comparisons to akb48 and your idea about how nct tokyo should have debuted before wayv. i kinda feel like superm is its own can of worms to dissect in the future. just a suggestion since they are allegedly coming back next year, hopefully sm doesn't fumble that too

jaehyun in that thumbnail damn girl we see em

You should have mentioned that 2018-2019 was traumatising for all the dream members.

I feel like, unless they debut some kind of prodigy trainee, none of the future idols that will debut will be able to top de popularity or skill of the members (plus perhaps xiaojun and shotaro) that were in NCT 2018

The Graduation-by-age concept of NCT Dream isn't as common as one may think. In fact the only JPOPish group I can think ACTUALLY did this was MNL48 and that AKBSG is a mess...

this is a really excellent and well formulated video. i think the failure of SM to properly manage nct is especially ridiculous when you consider that SM had already tried to soft launch this 'unit'/graduation concept two times in the past with super junior and exo and both times they had to scrap it pretty early on as the failure to properly implement it was revealed. suju was originally supposed to have 'graduations' but they had to give up when it was clear how unpopular the move was with fans. and don't even get me started on exo-m. it makes it even more farcical that SM haven't been able to give up on the idea imo. i honestly wonder about male trainees currently at SM and what happens with them. it must be pretty weird to be training knowing you're going to debut in a group that's already been around for 7 years at this point. SM don't have a 4th generation boy group AT ALL unlike the other big 4 companies and genuinely i think this really going to start causing problems for them. there's almost nothing fresh coming out of SM with only aespa holding the 4th gen torch for them. meanwhile the biggest growing boy group properties like skz, txt, enhypen and even treasure are getting a massive headstart and leaving SM behind.

WayV has to be one of the most unexpectedly successful subunits. Heavily believe that the group’s consistent members has to be one. Plus with Ten and Lucas being in it really helped.

I always look forward to your videos as you always have something interesting to say, & I enjoy hearing your pespective about something I may not have even thought about until seeing your videos~

Amazing video that sums up everything I've ever thought was unfortunate about NCT. I hope they figure out a solid direction and get out of this weird state of perpetual limbo soon 😮‍💨

This is one of my new favourite Kpop commentary channels, you share your honest opinions backed up with facts and research in a respectful way and you don't make problematic or clickbait videos. Hope your channel blows up this year. That Seohyun pic in your profile also proves to me you've got that good taste, fellow SONE here.

Thanks for this deep dive video. It puts into words the feelings I've recently been having about NCT's system and identity as a group. As someone who has stanned them since their debut because of how foreign and experimental their sound and concept was, it's disheartening to see the direction they're headed now. I had a feeling from the very start that this "limitless" concept was not going to be viable in the long run but since I wanted to see such a progressive idea succeed, I supported them. It's just infuriating how SM seems to have so much planned for them but they never see it through because that's the thing -- there's TOO MUCH. It's like SM is constantly trying to one-up themselves and NCT ends up suffering the consequences. Don't get me wrong -- SM comes up with some of the most brilliant, cutting-edge concepts that make them deserving of the "Kpop's Trendsetters" title, but their timing and execution is god awful. I'm tempted to call SM the "overachievers of Kpop" lmao. No joke I literally CHOKED when I saw the article about LSM planning an NCT Saudi and NCT Hollywood subunit the premise is soo hilarious to me idk why. Props to them for being ambitious but if they don't have the guts to back up their claims then don't bother. I've been clamoring for the NCT Tokyo subunit since 2018 because the market for it was there but fuck they keep delayinggggg it's so excruciating. Now I fear for WayV's future I just love them so much but SM excels at mismanaging their artists.

Your videos are very intelligent and insightful. I have tried to follow NCT since their debut and it has been difficult just for many of the reasons you detailed. The ones I really feel sorry for are the incredibly talented artist/members themselves...wasting away their most productive years in a flawed concept with very little control!

If SM doesn't make poll and see what fans want instead of trying to figure it out

girl sm should’ve hired u ur literally so smart and i agreed with every point u made😭 like DUH the first international unit should’ve been in japan fucking DUH💀💀

Also, the feeling of members being close is something that is generally appreciated amongst Kpop fan, but right now only NCT Dream are giving it out. NCT 127 is like three friend groups mashed together, WayV has an unerasable divide between Kun/Ten and Xiaojun/Yangyang/Hendery (I'm not saying they don't get along, they just can't get rid of the senior/junior dynamic),, Winwin had virtually disappeared, and the new rookies including Shotaro and Sungchan are just...people the rest of NCT doesn't know. You're not going to have the same relationship with people you trained with for years, people in your group who debuted years after you did, and people who joined SM after your own debut. I feel like NCT UNIVERSE contents just get increasingly awkward with years

Fortunately we’re getting NCT Tokyo some time this year! 🙌

You make good video essays madam. I really understood everything you discussed.

i think its crazy how bad sm is at managing

as an nctzen this is what bothers me the most. nct is just so poorly managed that it seems like sm has absolutely no idea what to do with them. at all. like even the fans have better ideas at this point. i became a fan in 2020 and i think the signs that dream's graduation system wouldn't work had been there for a while because no one new was actually being added. ideally they should've started adding people as early as 2017 or at least starting in 2018. mark graduated and maybe even that could've been a good time or add some new members. but then you have 4/6ths of the group being the same age and no fixed units to put them in (i guess renjun would have ended up in wayv but what about jeno and jaemin?). they couldn't possibly have actually let them graduate and dreamzens would definitely not have stood for it if mark was the only dreamie who had to graduate. instead of their china unit, they should've debuted a usa unit (or they could've debuted around the same time/one after another. doesn't really matter as long as they actually got into the market early) with mark and johnny and a few more members (maybe some other trainees they already had ideally ones who would seem nice and approachable too. it would also help if they were comfortable with english). and instead of a reality competition show, just do a regular debut, maybe with some member introductions before releasing the mv. they should've saved the competition show idea for japan (or china... not sure how good the reputation for those is there but it's probably better than the usa?). making haechan and mark fixed members of two units was also definitely a bad idea (not sure what they could've done there? because either way people would be mad about it) and it has led to dream always getting sidelined and 127 getting treated as the "main unit". mahae aren't there for so many dream promotions. maybe they just need better schedule management so that mahae don't have to start double timing like 1 week into a comeback or whatever. they've also severely underused the nct u concept i think. having a group with so many members and a built in rotational unit pretty much means you can have back to back to back comebacks and give each member their time to shine and never have to overwork anyone (except for mark and haechan who by default have to do twice the work everyone else is doing). in an industry that is SO focused on having a constant stream of content, it's basically the perfect group. you can have a constant rotation of members doing different songs/choreography that really play to their strengths. i think nct u should be more pick the unit first and song second unless it's like a full nct album or something. instead most of the members get sidelined and like the same few members keep doing nct u songs. it doesn't make any sense.

I feel like NCT Dream graduation concept is very unneccessary in the first place imo. I know they are the young unit that will do cute concept and such but making them graduating/constantly changing lineup only will creating the whole new problem. Also even Dream still suits cute type of songs in their 20s and in their 7th year (Candy prove this) makes me further wonder if the whole graduation concept is necessary or not. About Mahae overworked thing, honestly they should being put in Dream only (since they along with 3J were already promoted together as aegi shinki in SM Rookies days) while debuting 2 other trainees like Doyoung, Johnny, Hansol and Jungwoo in the Firetruck line up instead. This kpop industry already have so much backlash for debuting 14 years old nowadays and adding more minors to the lineup personally is not good and potentially only make them hated a lot. And it is not like trainees can only debut through Dream (they could just going through Sungtaro debut instead but with way less waiting time until their fix unit debuted )

i actually was talking to a friend once and i had told her about how the constantly adding members won’t work in their favor anymore, i personally stopped paying attention after shotaro entered the group and am only now learning about the newer members and it will be very hard to push newer members when there are already so many familiar faces that the fans know and love. it probably could’ve worked if sm did it properly but lee sooman really screwed up with this one.

This video wraps up most of the thoughts I've had about NCT's concept for the past year or so, so thank you for sharing! As someone who's been a fan since the beginning, I had high hopes. I understood the graduation system, I understood more members would get added, I understood more units would debut, and that never pushed me away or outraged me. That's where the problem lies with many ppl who supported NCT around the beginning of their career. I'll never forgive the ppl who complained and sent hate to SM about Dream's graduation system. Do y'all not realize how much that would've benefited Mark and Haechan, who are overworked and will constantly be expected to cater to both 127 and Dream fans? It's only gonna get worse from here. And I agree that NCT Tokyo should've debuted first, although I'm happy we got WayV bc I love them, but I was thinking about how Hansol left SM because all they made him do was wait. It was rumored he would debut in the Japanese unit, but since LSM didn't go through with his original plan, he had no choice but to leave. I'm sure there were other trainees that did nothing but wait and in the end got nothing. Other than NCT's system problem, I predict SM will continue to go downhill due to their obvious lack of hiring better promoters and staff who can bring in fresh ideas.

great video!!

Incredible analysis!

NCT don't have a concept. They have lots of different "experimental songs", but honestly, there is no originality in their music. SM entertainment needs to realise that there are more than enough NCT subunits now.

My head canon is that NCT U was created after SME realized the inhibiting nature of EXO’s military enlistment. Baekhyun doesn’t come back until this year and both Kai and Sehun need to enlist. During this time where it was harder to have OT8/OT9 comebacks (depending on if Lay was able to partake), other groups like BTS and Stray Kids were able to capture the US market that SME wanted to. SME is an amazing company when it comes to trying to revolutionize the industry and find ingenuitive methods of rebranding the company. But when it comes to understanding basic marketing… They always drop the ball. Red Velvet is the most apparent issue as they had so much potential to be massive in the western market after Bad Boy was gaining traction. Where did they end up going for promotions? Ya know, just North Korea. And after watching SM’s latest company update where they’re moving onto Era 3.0, I’m really afraid that they’re preparing to take the train and send it off of a cliff.

Super interesting video as someone who could never get into NCT, partly due to sheer confusion at their concept. The units seemed very random and I never heard anything about members actually graduating. Didn't know why until now

this is a really well researched in depth video! It’s so frustrating to see how sm manages nct sometimes, whenever lee soo man does another declaration to debut x unit in x country, I don’t take it seriously. There’s been so many empty promises, and I don’t even find the new project ideas appealing many of the time(I’m looking at you nct hollywood) Although, I am very excited for the new supposed Japan unit with sungtaro and sm rookies :) Although I get ur point, I’m honestly glad mark and Johnny didn’t join an “nct America” unit, bcz it feels so forced like nct hollywood was. If anything, the existing units can just be pushed into the western market, like nct 127. Plus it would mean mark would be in 3 active units instead of 2 rn, which he absolutely does not need. Sm’s biggest flaw in the nct system imo is nct dreams graduation mess. They waited all those years to graduate members by the time fans had already become attached to the lineup, then they lost their leader, and there was going to be only 2 members left(chenle and jisung) by 2020. what was sm thinking?? It was torture for both the members and fans.

Now the cherry on top is Taeyong exposing sm for lying about giving them a break. It's literally so upsetting to see this type of mistreatment from a company that is one of if not the biggest and most influential one in the kpop industry. They're a power house with such enormous amounts of money you'd think they were managing their groups right but naw. Apparently that's the absolute hardest thing for them to do. But I get it, I do. At some point they stopped viewing their idols as human beings, they're just money machines by now. Nothing else matters.

Ngl, good video, i like it

tbh they shouldve just stopped at nct 127 and nct dream + nct u when they have an all group comeback, they're fumbling so hard with nct these past few years and instead of stepping back, regroup, and carefully analyzing their next move they keep planning to debut more members with no sign of putting them jn a solid unit. at this point they're just debuting members for the sake of the brand and not for the quality

i’m so glad jyj left this company. it seems dystopian and more soulless than even the other companies in korea

Just a couple of quick corrections on what was said from 7:01-7:29 - NCT U was to remain as the promotional name for performances with select NCT members involved (examples: Baby Don't Stop with Ten and Taeyong but also Boss with Taeyong, Doyoung, Jaehyun, WinWin, Jungwoo, Lucas and Mark) while NCT still referred to the groups as a whole, and specific years - 2018, 2020, 2021 etc. - were added to the end to label the members involved in that year - kind of like in school you might be in the "class of 2020" etc. - As for releasing music every two years, as far as I know it was supposed to be a yearly event which we saw with NCT2020 and NCT 2021 but poor planning by the company means they're not always following through. . . - NCT U released one song in Chinese prior to WayV while it was actually NCT Dream who released Chinese versions of their title tracks not NCT127. I also think that for SM it did technically make sense to debut WayV first as they did have the members for it, however they neglected to include all Chinese members - both Renjun and Chenle could have been in the unit. The only Japanese member within NCT up until 2020 was Yuta, so it may not have seemed practical to debut a unit when only one member of the target nation was actually from there, although NCT127 began promoting there from 2018 anyway.

Your analysis is so well researched and is the analysis video I've been looking for forever. You could do a graduate thesis on gendered consumerism affecting marketing plans. Really genius concept- thank you for making this. :)

“celebrate” really makes the best bgm

finally someone made a proper video on this

Great video with great points

came back just to say you were right lol