CHAPTERS 0:00 Frank Herbert's Dune 0:40 Guild Navigators from Novel 2:49 1984 Movie Adaptation 3:32 Mini-Series 4:14 2021 & 2024 Adaptation 5:33 Conclusion 6:02 Closing Thoughts 6:35 Subscribe

I hate to be THAT GUY, but the nevigators do not "fold space", the "Holtzman engines" do that, the navigator is there for his prescience, he is there to foresee any danger in the "folded route", so that the ship ("Heighliner") wouldn't pass through a planet or a sun that could exist in between the two points of fold.

I really hope in dune messiah they appear, because in part 1 he showed a human spider, that is way more weird than a navigator

Denis did the right thing holding them back. They’ll be the talk of the third movie, as Feyd has been with the second.

1984 version is the one that I remember most.

We saw them in “Arrival”. 😂😂

The navigators don't fold space.

I hope it will look somewhat like the 1984 grotesque version. It looks physically very impractical and it's huge head hints at it's extraordinary mental capabilities I like the idea that being a navigator is a complete physical curse and prison counterbalanced by it's mental blessings.

A friend gave me the Dune Trilogy .. I read the first few pages of the first book, put the book down and didn't read further. This same friend took me to see the movie in 1984 .. it was so strange, I recall wondering why it wouldn't end and wishing it would. Then 10 years later, one night late, I caught the 1984 version on some cable channel .. at the point when Paul and Jessica were escaping. Either because I was older then or I cared to pay more attention, something clicked. Since then, I don't know how many times I've seen the various versions of the 1984 film nor how many times I've ready the books but Dune is my most favorite sci-fi. The depth is amazing. So many details. Denis' version is just eye candy with great writing, that while he skips some portions that provide that depth I love, he remains faithful to the idea that is Dune.

As much as I love the DV movies, I think he shrouded the guild in too much mystery to the point that they are practically non existent. A few more scenes with the representatives in the background to remind us that they exist would have fixed this. Fingers crossed for Dune Prophecy

Also in the book its stated if i remember no one as ever seen a guild navigator so it makes no sense to show them

this is the easiest question: he wants to hold them back until Messiah.

The Navigators have NEVER "folded space".

One thing is for sure.. The guild navigators at the end of book 1 are part of the reason why pauls threat works and the emperor has to abide. Maybe that's why the fremen immediately had to jump in ships to fight the houses at the end of the 2nd movie. It was kinda weird seeing them immediately jump on the warships. They knew how to fly them? The atreides army was destroyed and they seemed to make no prisoners of the harkonnens and saurdakars. I can't remember the fighting starting right away in the books. I gotta go back and check it.

Edric will make a triumphant entrance in Messiah!!

This is why I love the different Dune adaptations you can watch because each tells the story from another angle. Hopefully, Villeneuve will show the Navigators in Dune Messiah, as they play a major role in the coming story.

Denis said he did Arrival and Blade runner in preparation for dune. We'll, I can elements of blade runner in Dune. However, I can also see elements of the Guild navigators in Arrival: big aliens in a tank of gas within a brutalist looking spaceship??? We already know how Denis will execute the cinematography from this. He's definitely going to rehash what he learnt in Arrival.

Were the guild navigators the inspiration for the heptapods in Arrival? in their gaseous enclosure behind glass?

Don’t they first appear in book 2?

They haven't been seen by anyone in the book at that point. It is even pointed out that nobody knows how they look like, if they are still humans. Them being featured in the other adaptations is the abberation.

One thing I did appreciate about the scene in 84 between the navigator and emporer, is how the navigator was able to see the ultimate plan the emporer was cooking up. Although it was heavy on exposition and explained everything too much, I appreciated how it provided a little context more and explained why Paul was a threat.

My first exposure to Dune 1984 was around 1986. I was 6 years old. My Mom was taping it for my adult sister from HBO. We came home from somewhere and turned on the tv just in time to catch the Baron pull the heart plug on someone and blood splatter everywhere. My Mom turned it off, but not before I got an eyeful. Same sister later got mad at me for writing sci-fi and horror short stories when I was a teenager. I really hope the guild navigators appear in Dune 3. But I will love it either way, I am sure.

why does everyone keep saying that the navigators use the spice to fold space? the Holtzman engines do the folding, the navigators just chart the course by looking through time to make sure the path the take wont land them in a star or next to a black hole. They're like mentats but with prescience, doing heavy calculations while taking in the trajectory and chaos of space to make sure the heighliner makes it to the other side

I didn't expect a full on scene, but I would have loved to have seen a cameo to just show how travel works as part of the world building. That is something that I will never get to see from DV.

Great analysis!. Thanks for making it.

I was actually looking forward to seeing Villeneuve's take on the navigators. I hope they do have an appearance in his next Dune movie

They’re absent because they don’t appear until DUNE messiah.

Outstanding video!

Thanks for your video.i like the navigators from all filmed versions but you are right that in the new films they are missing.greetings from Vienna/Austria from me jürgen vicepresident of Vulkan Spirit

Space ship looks like a Sand Worm.

I feel the same way. I know that part of the directors strategy is to leave us to speculate about the technology and keep us in the dark. It helps to build the intrigue and mystery. But, I want to see a navigator! I also really wanted to see some close ups of the highliner too! Folding the space inside of the highliner is a brilliant concept but I wish we could have seen a little more of the intricacies of how it worked. I know… mystery.

thanks for covering this. I am disappointed in the absence of the Guild Navigators. And their relationship with the Bene Gesserit. Especially given the state of CGI and conceptual development. I wonder if Denis quietly tasked development and didn't see anything that rocked him.

Kept TOO mysterious by Villeneuve. Simply left out. Folding space is so important. We needed to see more of it. Critical high plot scene missing.

I thought you had 42k subscribers not 42! I mean really good video keep it up

In the 1984 version the guild navigators help set the plot in motion by being prescient in seeing that Paul is a serious potential problem. The Bene Gesserit are trying in part to keep Paul safe in hope of controlling him, so at odds with the Navigators. Current Dune and the Bene Gesserit are the ones running everything from the shadows. I think it loses some power going from "the spice must flow" to "the Emperor just decides to end House Atreides from jealousy.

I hope they make the navigators into god like entities , fish like in a giant Aquarium of spice melange just chillin seeing everything and everyone at all times .

I am hopeful of extended editions once part 3 is finished. Hopefully since imax filming was used will get full 16 9 ratio with much less black bars as well as imax is taller. Might take a decade.

I watched the 1984 film in the theater. I was already a huge Dune fan. I liked the film but was disappointed by the weirding module (sonic weapon) and the rain at the end. Without those two ridiculous additions I'd have been happier with it. I have since learned that Lynch disavowed it and there was massive studio interference. Looking back some of the acting hasn't stood the test of time.

just look at your goldfish in your aquarium and you will find guild navigator swimming in spice

Thats weird, i dont remember Navigator being fully shown in the first book. Isn't the start of Messiah were a navigator is completely reveal?

You did see them in part one (they had helmets on) but Denis won’t show them in his version. The 84 version was too weird!

They should make an appearance in the next movie if it stays close to the book, "Dune Messiah". There are some foreshadowing from a couple of characters that will set the stage for Dune, Part 3 (Dune Messiah) which concerns a conspiracy. You can read the book to find out. Part 2 does a good job of leaving open ends for the next movie.

There is still a chance to see one. Since now both parts have been big hits, we can safely assume the next part will be coming. Will it be the last part? Only time will tell.

There is a good point about not needing to worry about hitting anything. However, it's a matter of scale. We're not talking about crossing a solar system or moving through an asteroid belt. They were crossing the galaxy. A lot Higher more potential to run into something. And if not Zero it's too high a risk as they learned after the destruction of all thinking machines.

love your vedio thumbs up ! , can you name me the intro song to this vedio ?!

I liked David Lynch's version of the Guild navigators. The SyFy version is probably more accurate based on the book description.

A lot of people are upset about Denis V. excluding Guild Navs and “folding space” in what is essentially the first part of his take on Dune (the first 2 films). First, there’s much more to come in these new adaptations. Second, it’s obviously not in any way critical to either of the films. Weirdo Guild navigators tripping on heavy spice gas while tweaking Holtzman Engines is nifty and all, but who cares in light of what’s happening in the characters and politics of the story? It amounts to nerding out for nerds’ sake. It’s like if you’re watching a heist movie about some dudes gathering to go over the big plan and then the director really wants to show the taxi driver’s experience and how internal combustion engines fire on cylinders! Who cares? It’s a pointless distraction from the emotional story AND the timeline of the story’s events. I know some will say, “But, but, but Herbert WROTE about the Guild and the engines! It MUST be important!” Sure, it’s important to the medium of books that can be much longer and in depth and detailed. Of course, the Guild has a greater role in the universe of the books. Yet, movie adaptations have to streamline and cutting sci-fi space ship and travel mechanics seems a perfectly good detail to cut or at least highly limit.

It has popularized the David Lynch version. As so many now draw upon HIS visuals to discuss the navigators. So I believe it has the effect of honoring some of Lynch's work. It's Denis's way of saying, "Let's not touch or try to supersede this which David did so well".

I would suggest the exclusion of Paul's sister Alia Atirdes and her poisoning of the Baron was the worst exclusion from the original source material. That along with the dropping of the death of Paul & Chani's son Leto really takes away from Paul's story development. The films are awesome but should be enjoyed as an interpretation of a literary masterpiece

I believe they will include the Gil Navigator in part 3😊 hopefully

I just discovered dune a few years back. Im no expert. But i too would like to see the navigators. I find them really fascinating. Even a fully seperate work apart from the films or existing texts.

They didn't do enough to emphasize the importance of the Spice. Its the only "major" gripe I have about the movie. They technically covered it, but they didn't help you really understand it the way Lynch's Dune did. Otherwise, I thought Part 1 and 2 were a masterpiece (and yes, I recognize other divergences happened that were bigger on the plot, but I was okay with them).

I really like the 1984 movie due to its adaptation and inclusion of the schemes of corrino and the spacing guild from the get go Its a shame feyd and corrino weren't as present (although I understand why )

I think we’re going to,see them in 3. They are key to the final decision of the houses and the culture to accept that Paul might use the atomic. Think we’re going to see more of Margot and count fenring, and a quick resolution of the split with chani. This may hope more than rational but they were all key to my love of the books 50 years ago.

In the David Lynch movie right from the bringing they give us the gorgeous Virginia Madsen to tell us what the Spice is and WHY it's so important. Just saying. 🙄

such a great vide!

The Guild Navigator scene is the best part of the 1984 movie, it's weird and alien-like, it really makes you feel it's a real alternate reality where all this is really happening. I wish more directors were brave enough to show this kind of stuff, everything is bland these days in order to supposedly appeal to a wider audience.

I have few complaints about the new Dune, but this is, in my opinion, a weakness. I would have liked to see more about the Navigators too.

Bring on the fishman!

I miss the politics of the Guild. "I see plans within plans."

Wait for Dune Messiah.

Some people have no patience... The first scene with a navigator in will be in Dune Messiah... Which is exaclty how it is in the books...

David Lynch's 3rd stage Guild Navigator was the best vision of Herbert's idea. Hope Villeneuve goes in that direction (channel some of the striking weirdness of 1984 Dune).

I have to admit I was taken aback by the title of your video since I’ve read the books. 😉 However, I have an iron-clad rule to never comment on KZfaq until I’ve watched the video. Now that I’ve watched it I can say I was pleasantly surprised and really enjoyed it. You explained right away that the Guild Navigators don’t appear until Dune Messiah and you’re expressing your own thoughts. Well done. 👍 I also wanted to add as someone who is older than dirt and who has been a science fiction and fantasy fan for decades I agree 100% that Dune Part 1 and Part 2 are among the best science fiction movies ever made. In fact, I consider them to be the best adaptations of a science fiction or fantasy novel ever. And now my thoughts on the previous versions. I saw the ‘84 version when it was first released and absolutely hated it although it has bits that I liked. However, I don’t blame the wonderful David Lynch since it’s well-known that he lost control over the film. In fact, he has been very public about distancing himself from the finished film. As to the Sci Fi Channel version, I enjoyed it through Paul and Lady Jessica’s escape but then got bored with it and lost interest. So, I can’t really review it. One of these days I’ll watch the whole thing.

I think in 1984 version of Dune; the Guild Navigators were presented for Shock value only. We already know, if you read Herbert's novels, that Spacing Guild is vital to Space travel. Hell, the timeline itself divided between BG and AG, Before Guild and After Guild, so you realize their importance to Galaxtic history.

Edric is there from the beginning of Messiah to mask the plot from Pauls prescience but Denis diminished the Spacing Guild's political role in Dune so who knows. I hope he's there as it's an important part of the lore.

Considering Messiah has a lot to do with negotiations and machinations with the Guild, it seems there's still scope for something neat.

I've been a big fan of Lynch's films ever since I went to see it at the cinema as a child accompanied by my mother. I don't like Villeneuve's new version because it doesn't have that atmosphere, the Prophecy, the Messiah and his visions. I conclude that I have read all the books and I am a big fan of Herbert's Dune.

The Navigators will feature in Villeneuve's take on Dune Messiah - he was wise to hold them back in the first two movies because I believe they will be one of the highlights of Messiah.

The thing is denis is trying to be as faithful to the books as possible. Herbert never shows a guild navigator until much later in the series

I gotta say, this was the thing i was most looking forward to seeing represented in the new films, much as I love them.

I enjoyed both of the Sci-Fi Channel’s miniseries as well as the new movies, but each feels like only part of the whole story to me. The miniseries showed the mutual benefit between Paul and the Fremen with them teaching him the ways of the desert while he taught them the Bene Gesserit’s “weirding ways of battle,” while the movies neglected that combat altogether depicting Paul and Jessica just exploiting the Fremen. The movies showed the depths of the Bene Gesserits’ centuries-long manipulations of various planets’ cultures and governments while the miniseries just dabbled with that. The miniseries showed how much humanity’s economy and travel depended not just on the spice itself but also the Spacing Guild’s dominant control over its use while the movie just focused on showing it as a valuable psychoactive drug. The movies showed how common personal shield generators were used on and off the battlefield by upper class citizens and their armies while the miniseries briefly touched on them in a few scenes.

The best scene I missed in this new Denis Villeneuve adaptation is Alia Atreides (Paul's sister) announcing her brother's arrival and killing Baron Vladimir Harkonnen at the end of the film. But it's good anyway...

I found his adaptation of the squid aliens in Arrival allready amazing. You can see similarities in style of space crafts between that movie and Dune in my opinion. I wouldn’t be surpried to see similarities between the navigators and the squids, allthough not them being squids, but more the setting.

In my opinion Denise holded back Mentats and Guild navigators

Although looking like a giant ballsac capable of folding space from X I really like the adaptation of the navigator in the 1984 movie. I was 9 years old when I saw it for the first time. Made a huge impression.

The navigator Edric is an active conspirator against Paul in Dune Messiah. We will almost certainly see him in that movie.

The '84 version kinda traumatized me when I was a kid and I loved it. These new ones don't really do that. Sure, they're "better" movies but they don't really blow my mind like the old one did.

The most fantastic thing about Frank Herbert's Dune series, that we don't encounter true Aliens from another Galaxy. Everyone is a version of human evolution twisted by use of Space Melange. And point fail highlight, Once you take Spice your hooked for Life. Therefore only powerful and rich can afford maintain the habit. When you stop taking Spice, it's agonizing death.

Subbed. More please.

Is not the spice that bends space.... is the Holtzmann effect. Spice is use to enhance their calculation skills to avoid obstacles.

They should have at least made a small hint, or show closer look at the transporter ship using tons of spice to space travel between planets, thats why spice production is so vital to the story, but kind of failed in both new films...

The scene that I missed most was the dinner party. So disappointed that excellent scene wasn’t included. So many possibilities. Sigh.

At least one director knew what he was doing

In 2001: A Space Odyssey it was decided not to reveal the aliens' appearance that abducted Dave Bowman. Kubrick and perhaps Clarke decided any form offered would cheapen the movie. Perhaps it was the same here and Villeneuve knew of this example however, his alien creatures in Arrival was fine.

I consider an unforgivable fault the absence of the scene of the folding of space by the navigator, in the Atreides fleet's journey towards Arrakis, a scene that Lynch's version does show. It seems essential to me for the spectator to become aware of the importance of the spice, which is consumed by the sailor to have such an ability. And the scene at the beginning of the 1984 version in which the brotherhood and the navigator speak harshly to the emperor of the universe himself, giving him orders, appears completely lacking in character in the 2022 version.

I want to see them so bad god damnit

Yeah, I was really looking forward to how Denis would portray them, too .. 🤔

are the guild navigators like Fedex they own the space ship and take you where u want to go? or are they independent contractors just living on the ship working for you? how do they reproduce? how many are there? if you need a new one do you just order one to be delivered to you or what?

Never read the books, so would guild representatives be exposed to the spice similarly to the navigators, possibly in smaller quantities because I swear you can vaguely see the helmets and they look less human than a normal human.

As mentioned, they don't appear in the book Dune so we'll have to wait for Messiah. Lynch's depiction was close to how they're described by Herbert. Their size and form do a good job showing how much they've mutated. I'd prefer them to be on the large size not small as in the Syfy channel's. My issue is more with depictions of space fold. Lynch's version shows a navigator puking space while the Syfy's seemingly selecting the planets perhaps in his spice-induced trance vision. Both don't work for me. Villeneuve appears to show space fold more like a portal where you enter one end, go through the portal in the middle of the highliner, then appear on the other end at your destination. A bit anti-climactic so if he chooses to show it in Messiah, I hope he shows us some interesting visuals when ships go through the portal. He's a true visual director and his films often have a documentary feel to them. I trust him if he choses to show elaborate on space fold. His eye for the perfect shot shouldn't disappoint.

I was just saying to a friend how disappointed I was not to see the Navigator in Villeneuve's version; for me it was, along with Paul's demonstration to the Fremen of The Voice, the best part of Lynch's film...

He missed the major role of the CHOAM. The real "masters" of the spice business are administrators of the CHOAM. In 1984 film, they made the same mistake !

Like getting groups of people on and off sand worms, most of this story takes place off camera. 😂

I had not read Dune prior to seeing David Lynch’s movie in 1984. Entering the theater each of us was handed a one page glossary of terms. I enjoy both the 1984 and current adaptations of Frank Herbert’s Dune. I am not a fan of the Children of Dune TV series. It had some good points but couldn’t get past the bad acting (Gurney Hallock and the guildsman for instance). I liked the guild navigator in the 1984 movie, it was a glimpse into privileged information.

Dudes with helmets with brown gas, genius

They better show the weirding way next time too

You won’t get a Guild Navigator as yet. Probably won’t see one in the next film. That would be a pity though.

pffft , folding space is one thing but can they fold fitted sheets ????

We'll see them in Part 3: Messiah