They met to conspire in the 2nd book

@@plykkegaard1 Not with the Emperor though -- he was no longer Emperor at that point. It was Scytale and the Bene Geserit.

​@@chamberfield1 Have you not forgotten Irulan and Edrick?

@@GlossRabbanyea was a plot between, bene teleilax, bene geserit, house corrino and spacing guild.

@@GlossRabban, they got together in _the second book_ , not the first. As I (think) I said here, the movie industry would do itself a favor by bringing back the roadshow theatrical release, so that a longer cut of an event movie like _Dune (Part One)_ could be shown with most of the cut scenes in it.

I wouldn't put much faith in that

But probably not as awesome as what Lynch did. The description of the navigators in the book is that they look like men with long webbed feet and hands -- sort of like a human/fish hybrid. Kind of lame compared to the grotesque mutant Lynch portrays.

I sure hope there’s way more exploration of the navigator guild in any upcoming movies.

@@Johnston212 Considering the popularity of Dune 2, I would put quite a bit of faith in that. I’d like to hear your reasoning, tbh

[Idaho/Mamoa dies in part 1] is sad man😢 [Realizing Idaho/Mamoa comes back as badass ghola] Wooooo! Lfg🔥😂 Plot twist, Aquaman is in DUNE universe haha. Just wait till they do The Incal👀

He did the same with mentants, also VERY important players in ALL future books.

Yeah, I've had to explain why spice is important to a number of people who aren't familiar with the story, it's a shame its not covered at all by these new films

It has definitely been streamlined

The first film VERY CLEARLY specifies why spice is vital to space travel and thus the most valuable substance in the universe.

If you haven't yet, watch the 2012 Spicediver fan edit cut, it gets the Lynch version closer to the book. It is at ~3 hours long (the original theater release was 2.25 hours) & someone else later upscaled it to 4k, which the video resolution increase itself is another great addition to a 40-year old movie that used to only be at DVD 480 resolution for many years. You can find the 4k version here on KZfaq. Should be at GW's channel. 04/19/24

Yeah, but that scene blew my 14 year old mind when I saw it on VHS for the first time! 😁

@@ThePhosphorDot oh, don't get me wrong it is a great scene. But if you like a pure DUNE! A faithfully done adaptation then you have to realize it was made for the movie!

@@christopherkerns639That makes me excited because dude is currently working on possibly two more, but definitely one - Dune Messiah. So he is maybe carefully taking the new audience to the more bizarre for later while also staying faithful to the books.

@@dwaiting883 agreed! Can't wait to see how he does Messiah! Bronso of IX is a character I want to see!

​@@christopherkerns639I'm one of those Dune fans who doesn't really care for the Anderson/B. Herbert novels. But I will say that Bronso was a cool addition. Friend to an emperor, but dangerously close to religious taboo.

They're not supposed to be in the movies that cover the first dune book.

@@kevineckelkamp the importance of CHOAM and the Guild was related in all novels. They’re the most powerful organization in the universe. The current movie series doesn’t stress that enough in my opinion.

@@kevineckelkamp You could argue they should be. The signiifcance of the Guild was thoroughly conveyed in the first book and is integral to the plot. There are also 'guild navigators' with an important dialogue exchange with Paul at the climax of the book.

dune 2 was great but i agree there should of been at least one scene

Folding space is not actually traveling through space. It's arriving at where you want to go. The Navigators make sure the ships don't appear in a planet or sun, etc. Bob Lazar talks about the craft he worked on at area 51. Interesting, it traveled in this manner, so Herbert may have known someone in the secret space program. Even faster than light travel would take too long to travel, the vast distances of space. There is a lot of nuggets in SciFi that probably originated from the secret space Program. We supposedly have bases all over the solar system and the Nazis supposedly had a base on the moon in the '50s. David Wilcock said they were U Boats with anti gravity generators and Lazar said the craft that he was studying the propulsion system on had Delta and Omicron modes. One for cruising around and one for folding space, interstellar. It has three gravity generators, one pointed them where you wanted to go, all three for folding space. It would create a time space pocket around the craft that eliminated G forces and the outside environment. What's funny is the info is so wild that most think it is just fiction. This helps the secret be kept. Cheers and truth is stranger than fiction..lol

...or Lazar may have read Dune...

Oh wow! Would be awesome to have one of those.

@@ThePhosphorDot ... Yup, I still have mine, 2 pages of Dune glossary. Someone else scanned them & put it on the internet, so you can google for the pages, if you didn't know.

Regardless of Lynch's later preferences, CGI was too primitive to be an option for a scene like this back then.

@@billxciii ... Yes, all the ships were practical plastic scale models. The rest were probably life-size models requiring carpentry & electrical work. I think the only movie that had full usage of 1980's CGI throughout its entire length was TRON 1982, which as you said, was "primitive". More mature 3D realistic CGI did not really happen until the early 1990s. Now we have full-blown CGI & even newer Deepfake type AI stuff.

@@robwebnoid5763 Tron had a lot CGI scenes, but IIRC the greater portion of the film done by rotoscoping combined with an insane amount handmade effects and matte paintings.

Yes this is commonly misrepresented, especially by the movies. Spice gives them foresight not the ability to fold physical space

Sweet, found that guy.

​@CraigAlderson, ....hmmm...Navigators are folding actual physical space ibecause they are folding linear time. Einstein's special theory on general relativity shows space & time to be the same thing. If you can shorten one, you can shorten the other, simply stated. However, with respect to Dune, the reason for the Navigators was because "Venport" was losing such a high amount of cargo/ships because they didn't know if they were exiting into a sun, a planet, etc., using the Holzman Generator. According to the OG books, spice gave GNs a limited sense of a prescience view that allowed them to "safely" fold space from point A to point B.

Thankyou. For say8ng that it saves me typing it, your absolutely correct. Sometimes I wonder if D VIllnerve has really the novels....

@@theronin9984 But you're comparing Holzman to Einstein.

Thank you! 🙂👍

In the book, there are two Guild navigators present in the final scene at the Arrakeen residence.

Yes, good point. They just made the navigation during space folding safer.

@@ThePhosphorDot And the original novel never mentions folding space at all. That was a David Lynch invention which Frank Herbert incorporated into later novels.

Nice, thank you. I implore you to read ALL of the Dune books; including those written by his son. The un-abridged hard back are the best for a truly immersive experience. Read them over4 decades ago ‘ Frank’s that is, the rest as published. Many amazing sci fi novels from back in the day if you can find a copy. Cheers.

​@@BrentARJ ... Yes & that's the thing, Frank understood the nature of live-action adaptations, that it is not going to be accurate to the source material. It is trying to interpret words in a book of text into a visual graphic medium. Practically all film adaptations in history have proved this thus far, none of them have ever been accurate to their source. I think Watchmen 2009 got close, but still no cigar. Unsure about Gone With The Wind & One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest, as I never read those books. If I recall, Frank was amused that Lynch's film made the Baron float way up towards a ceiling, & Frank said he never thought of that when writing the first Dune book. Thus to see that Frank was incorporating something from the Lynch film into later books means that anything can happen, there is always room for expansion, because it's all made up anyway ... it's not real, it's fiction. 04/19/24

I heard that in the books the navigators don't appear in the first book but in the second, so I think we'll see them in the next movie

And that statement from Villeneuve about keeping the mystery. Well, he certainly did a good job at that part. I didn't see the 2nd movie yet, but in the 1st one, the lack of informations given to the audience, compared to the Lynch's version, is striking. For example that scene, when the Reverent Mother comes to test Paul. I miss how in the old movie, we could hear the thoughts of Jessica. I had to explain to my friends, who didn't read the book, how tense that scene's supposed to be! She leaves the room knowing, that her son could die in the next moment. But in the new movie, it looks like she went to get a cup of tea.

@@davidmirvald8559 I couldn't disagree more, we clearly see how tense Jessica is, and the Reverent Mother explains what's at stake should Paul pull away.

@@ScottishAtheist the guild fear Paul and the Atreide we didn’t feel that in the Villeneuve movie

Exactly true criminal and live the 84 dune especially the unofficial cut which is amazing.

I agree. I like the mystery of the “supernatural” appearing things of Lynch’s Dune. There is little mystery (a special desire for an answer) in the Denis movie.

It should be a crime to start with those books...

SO in Dune Part 1 when the Guild arrives on Caladan, are the ones in white robes and orange face tanks some sort of navigator? I heard so somewhere and just assumed Villeneuve chose to alter them for screen adaptation but would those be stage 1 or 2? (I have only read the first two books so no further plot spoilers if possible)

@@landonbrown78 I believe they're just agents of the Spacing Guild, not navigators.

@@landonbrown78Question is literally answered in the video. DV says they are just guild reps, not navigators.

@@deepzone31 lol yea mb

@@porsche911sbsThey are more like stage 1 mutations and not stage three like the full blown navigators. Their head pieces keep them constantly breathing spice just like the navigators but just their heads and not their whole body. They are just lower down the ranks in the spacing guild

You mean like the end of part 2, that wasn’t in the book? Like that??

Well, no. Lol. There's a difference between changes and making up scenes wholesale. Anyway, I don't really care for the changes in Part 2, personally. Even though in every other way, it's unquestionably a superior film.

@@MichaelPhillipsatGreyOwlStudio the end of part 2 was not a change. It did not exist in the book. Aka, made up

@@edsmalePaul's troubles with dissent begin in Dune Messiah. I suspect that Villeneuve is setting up for that. I guess he's deadset on directing that next. It would be very strange to leave so many threads dangling in the viewers faces like that if he weren't planning to.

Many interesting but difficult things were left out from Villeneuve Dune I/II . Where are the Weirding Modules (that shows how Paul extended sound waves into a type of "sound" maser to destroy their enemies). The Weirding Modules were very cool and showed how everyting can be extended to transcend to a new level. Mentats, witches, Tlielax genetic ("tank") technologies, ... even Paul is transcended by moving extra fast at times...and Leto II extends the fast movements and merges with worms to become millenial god that controls the universe (the ultimate restriction for a long time). Then Leto II wanted to force society to transcend to the next level..and requires ultimate control and constrains to force the next transistion in the last Herbert Dune book.

Lynch was more invested in the story than most think. He was familiar with Dune Messiah and was quite eager to get working on it at one point.

@@eustacequinlank7418 Lynch made a real messiah of god out of Paul in the first movie and that was the real crime. He thought the audience could not handle the complexity of the books.

@@toren9120 Denis thinks we cannot handle the complexity of the word 'jihad'.

@@insectpolitician7278 true.

Lynch's "Eraserhead" had eraser like _worms_ in it too ! I think that is why Lynch was chosen since his "Eraserhead" vibe was so much like Dune and perfect fit.

Agreed, the weirding moduals were particularly lame. They went against everything his Bene Gensserit training was for.

@@DTeichman there's a reason Lynch took his name off the film. He said in an interview, once, that he lost control right from the script writing phase.

Interesting. Don't blame him.

The Denis movies make me wanna read the books lol

@@kevineckelkampas they should. They are good so far. Read them! ❤

I was 8 years old when I saw it in the theatre, in Puerto Rico.

You were right!

@@J.D.VisionBoricua!

I saw it at _14_ , and while I liked the novel and (for a while) liked the movie, I eventually realized that it isn't anything good as the 2021 movie, its sequel, or the 2000 TV miniseries. People like Jiroc the Filmmaker need to come to grips with this fact, and not blast the 2021 movie for not showing the Guild Navigator.

Just like skeptic Chani, Alia as a fetus, the absence of Leto I and so on…

In the first book, two Guild navigators are present in the final scene at the Arrakeen residence.

Yeah the weirding modules were a nice touch but they weren't in the novel

Or just the weirding way period.

I also prefer the Lynch film and they should release the 4 hour version before the studio chopped it up without Lynch's ok. He is still mad. The Lynch film has a lot more info and backstory. Cheers

Welding way if using the mind to control one ability to fight in a viscous way

He doesn't have it in him to do the Navigators, the Tleilaxu, or the Face Dancers justice.

​@elketerbentzadik how odd you would underestimate him.

@@maryamkim1281He didn't do anything daring in either of his first two DUNE movies. In fact, he avoided daring elements and cut them out.

@@elketerbentzadikI have to agree. I enjoyed Villeneuves version most of it‘s screen time, but he definitely played safe and totally missed the stranger things from the book.

@@elketerbentzadik where are the Weirding Modules ? That was a great section in 1984 Dune where Paul taught his men about them...and he can kill with a word....and then after killing Sting is cracked the floor _without_ the Weirding Module (just using his own voice control). The witch "voice" is a limited thing compared to being able to crack a foundation in a great hall ... with a word. Paul actual took the "voice" which he learned well and extended it and transcended it to the Weirding Module and sound into a major weapon to counter the Harkonnen's massive lasers and ships.

yes. Completely agree. However what he _did_ achieve was still massively well done.

The new Dune should have done much more difficult things. Like Alia, Weirding Modules, and the different sub-species that have all evolved over 8 thousand years...each with their own pros/cons. The 1984 small intermission scenes discussing the families, planets and their relationships was important. Just as the novel book notes of the Princess Irulan at start of most chapters...were very helpful in the novels to get up to speed. They should have included more Princess Irulan throughout these movies and that would have been easy to do.

It’s not a navigator speaking at the beginning, it’s a sardaukar.

@@norfsidejayy1223 I doubt that, the Sardaukar are non essential to the plot, they’re cannon fodder. Who cares what they say? The Navigators are depending on Spice production. I’m quite sure it’s Edric speaking, hopefully he will show up in the next film like in the novel.

@@xamalion7334 this isn’t up for debate lol it’s been confirmed go ahead and google it. Villeneuve stated that it’s a sardaukar priest. We’re on the internet bro did you not think other people could fact check you? Fun fact: you made that up in your head.

Lynch added that to the movie, it's not in the first dune book, which is what these last two movies are.

They're not supposed to be in the first two movies because they aren't in the first book

The goal of Dune 2 is to be an audio visual spectacle... if the amazing story of Dune got in the way of that spectacle... oh well!

The original Dune movie at least had superior acting.

​@@gerryboudreaultboudreault2608Yes, and less mumbling or Fremen with heavy Californian accents.

Good point, the arrival beings are similar to navigators, but they aren't present until the 2nd book, which will be the 3rd movie.

True, but Edric (a navigator) is one of the main characters of Dune Messiah. If Villeneuve is doing a third movie, I don't really see a way he can cop out on depicting our favorite fish-like mutants. It will be interesting to see how is he planning to do it without bringing the whole thing into uncanny valley tho.

I personally like the bizarre, otherworldly feel of Lynch’s Dune. I expect humanity to appear very bizarre and otherworldly in 20,000 years (if we survive or are even human at all). Lynch’s Dune transports me to a very foreign and unsettling place, and I’ve always appreciated that on multiple viewings over the decades (I saw it in the theater in 1984 when I was 14).

Her name is Alia.

Space travel was more dangerous and less reliable before spice.

They don't actually appear as part of the plot until "Messiah," the second book. That would be movie three if it gets made.

Lmao

But Lynch added that to his movie, it's not in the first book

Very well said

The guild isn't in the first dune book, and that's what the first two movies are. How can u compare them to shitty marvel movies?

​@@kevineckelkampThe Guild is mentioned a lot in the first book, with there even being two Guild navigators present in the final scene at the Arrakeen residence.

Right on!

Wait until the 3rd movie, it's not supposed to be in the first 2