The only member who actually had a past association with Christianity is Hong Eunchae as she was a church leader (Sunday school kid teacher I guess). Yunjin is mostly agonistic or Buddhist. Everyone else is unknown.

​@@forfunhours6081 could you explain agonistic? I'm not familiar with that religion🙏🙏

@@yourname4531 i think they meant agnostic (someone who thinks that nothing can be known by humans over the potential existence of a god)

@hazy_cosmic_jive thank you so much🙏🩷🩷

it's the belief that there is a god or being that has made the universe. But they are not sure what is out there so they do not claim a specific religion. @@yourname4531

thank you for understanding!! no religion should be disrespected and corrupted like this, ever since i saw the unforgiven mv & lyrics i knew i had to give the group up, what they are doing is glamourizing evil & the devil, and it is not good.

Thank you. I know your own religion has being paint as violent in many ways, I even have pointed that because that fame people respected it but in truth I belive no one belifts must be used for making jokes nor to justify hate or violence because at the end most religions try to make us follow the path of love, forgivness and peace. And we, cristians, jews and muslims belive in the same Good, even if we express it in different ways so I feel as if all of you are my brothers and sisters in Good so it is a shame we should keep fighting among us.

"Disrespecting religions is Eesaaay" 😂

Conspiracy theory, I think it might have been planned, especially since it happened so soon after their debut. Scandals like Garam’s get a lot of attention, and would draw attention to the group as the scandal unfolded. They are a HYBE group so it’s not like they needed the extra clout, but who knows what PR teams are thinking.

​@ShootingStarStudio This is what I sometimes think about at night😅 Besides Sujin(gidle), there were many idols who were accused of school bullying. But their companies were able to protect them. Garam was kicked out before the investigation was over. It looked like Hybe was trying to make himself look like a good guy who was against violence. But right after that independent lawyers and experts came to her defense and proved her innocence. Could that also be part of the plan? What happened to the girl who slandered her? Isn’t slander a crime? People said she moved schools and got away with it😐 It’s just my thoughts, I don’t want to offend anyone. I’m glad Garam’s innocence has been proven)

yup, their whole concept has been thought with the 6 of them in mind. which is crazy considering how fast hybe dropped garam, and didn't think to include another trainee to replace her to maintain the seraphim/6 concept.

and now the sixth wing of Garam has conveniently been replaced with the fandom. Similarly to how Seventeen was supposed to debut as actually 17, but four members left so they had to make up with it by saying "13 members, 3 units, one group" or something (as far as I heard)

@@whatsyourname9581 What you are saying is right. But I think for Seventeen it`s 13 member, 3 units and one fandom.😀

good

Most people forgetting about Ethiopia and Armenia, as well as the land in which Jesus himself was born in, when talking about Christianity being "for white people" always rubs me the wrong way. As a fellow Christian i admire the persistent ethiopian faith 🩷 i hope you'll be more appreaciated and respected one day, as well as all Christians ☹️

omg hihiih im also an ethiopian christian, it's so nice to someone who is as well ❤i agree with everything u said, it's so frustrating constantly seeing christianity being degraded and seen as nothing, it's a beautiful religion like any other and has so much diversity. ppl honestly have no idea what they're saying when they say christianity is simply a "white man's religion" when there are so many followers outside of the west. it makes me so upset :(

@@zora8263 i have many black christian friends. And tbh they're more religious. Im muslim anyway

same, people don't seem to realise that there are plenty of Christians outside of America and Europe, and not all of us are white (not that that should even matter).

the irony Parliament of s.korea took by christian but they don't care maybe smell money hehehe

I just noticed-

Honestly, I think the biggest culprit to this is Hollywood. The American entertainment industry has been using and mocking Christianity and God for decades. I'm not even a Christian and I get offended by so many films and music that I don't even bother with finishing it. And these images have been seeping into the Asian entertainment industry over the past decade.

Fr I could excuse the angel concept bc it's not the first and it'll not be the last group to use it but the crown of thorns photoshoot was just too much

@sahxx2165 yeah I've spoken about it before and the response was insane and what got me the most was they were really hitting the straight white man who hates other religions when I'm gay and have Jewish ancestry I'm very proud of

the angel concept if done respectfully wouldnt be that bad, but to have a group singing about how their unforgiven, how they are like eve and wish for whats forbidden, doing the devil horns.. i had seen enough lol. their concept wasnt intended to be a angel concept, it was a fallen angel concept, while also urging listeners of their music to join them in being unforgiven girls.

what;s crazy is unforgiven was actually interesting with the storytelling about them starting to be okay to be seen as "the bad guy" for the path they chose. in life, there are instances where we either choose our dreams or conform to what people in our life like family think what's best for us, and often when we choose the former, we end up losing the people who once were in our lives, which is kinda like being unforgiven in a sense. instead we got... whatever unforgiven was. easy was the last straw for me bc they disrespected so much of the catholic tradition in one fell swoop - dancing in the altar with minimal clothing, chaewon wearing the mantilla inappropriately, wearing the crown of thorns and so on... guess they really make it look easy at doing whatever the hell they want 🙃

@ayakaimpacts I think if they wanted to take the Lilith approach it would work like angels who chose independence they could also express the struggles that come with it I actually love the concept idea and love the songs but it makes me uncomfortable when I see them use religious imagery in a insensitive way just like when people do it to Jewish people because my Jewish heritage

thank you for noticing the differences! i completely understand when kpop fans are upset when there is disrespect of islam, it is unfortunate that christians cant be taken seriously when they bring up their own discomfort and disrespect in the industry. i am in the same boat as you are, im distancing myself away from kpop, because i think its unhealthy to be so focused on idols, rather than focusing on God!

its bc christianity is way more lax over the years while other religions stayed the same way.

@@markigirl2757 that's another true point---

@@markigirl2757 We are not "lax", that's really only the Americans/Westerners who don't actually follow Christianity and simply use it as a title or aesthetic for monetary gain.

Christianity in the West is tied to far right censorship and hate. That's why it's so easy to ridicule. Fundamentalist Islam has the same problem, but Muslims are far less preachy to people outside of their religion than many Christians are. Islam has also been villainized by the West for political reasons, so it's seen as more sympathetic than Christianity. There's also Christianity's ties to imperialism, forced conversion and white supremacy. The tendency to mock Christianity and Christians is justifiably tied to anger over marginalization. It's also not considered taboo to meme Jesus. I suspect that heavy use of Biblical imagery in kpop is tied to both rebellion against Christianity's dominance in the country and a reverence of it. Mockery of Christianity is always a mockery of certain sects that are seen as abusive and annoying, not the orthodox and respectful sects that aren't LOUD about their faith.

diocane vero

What’s crazy too is even outside of kpop why is there multiple rappers who put themselves on a cross pretending to be Jesus or people like jay z nickname is Jay-Hova or Hova short for jehovah

because it is fine and not that deep

We don’t care

@@devochka-s-kare proving the videos point. And it is that deep

I feel the same way about the other ones tbh

thank you for your understanding! there really shouldnt be a double standard, because everywhere no matter what religion thereare going to have bad people who to bad things. i think the double standard is there because many westerners have been hurt by the church/christians, so they have a prejudice towards christianity as a whole now. which i get why people are like this because ive been hurt by so many of these "christians". it just seems like westerners dont know much about other religions but christianity, so they dont know other religions can do bad too🤷‍♀

agree. Im not religious so i dont care either way what lesserafim does, but Christians themselves need to do their part and either not support or demand better. Others need to leave them be but unfortunately religion itself has been tainted so i doubt thats ever gonna happen. But yeah I think Christian Kpop stans in general need to consider more carefully who they support since Korea might have Christians but many Christians believe only certain things or pick and choose what they want to believe in the bible. This is especially rampant in America since my parents are christian and the reason why in america religion has gotten so lax. If anything this isn't the first time this happened. Lady Gaga did this with her song Judas (a bop hahaha but I'm sure a lot of Christians hated that).

​​@@markigirl2757Exactly, it's christians themselves who need to fight this. This is what happens when other religions experience disrespect, they unite and voice their joint opinion. But that's difficult to do as Christians because as you mentioned, liberalism. Some are okay with it, some are not, some don't care. If you as people can't unite, no one's going to take you seriously and change anything. As a Muslim I was horrified when I saw Judas, I was like "is this okay ?", so confused

I don’t think it’s a double standard actually. I think it’s that in the case of Muslims and Jews, they”re told to be proud of their religion, so they’re more vocal about it. Also, because if I’m not Christian, I don’t really care about someone “offending” Christianity, why should I?

@@vivid_blossoms Then why do you care about someone offending another religion but Christianity

Amen to that! Idk if it's that these people were neglected by their families and weren't taught respect, but where I came from, I grew up around several religions and we were all taught to respect eachother. These days, being edgy and disrespectful especially towards Christianity is seen as cool or the popular opinion. 😒

Yeah no, everybody is talking about the same thing in the Easy MV comments, she really thought she brought something new to the table, not to mention that she’s late to the party too, lool.

Right!

same, didn't realise the level of symbolism they had just casually used since I don't usually watch kpop mvs anyway, but yeah this video was an eye opener

It could be they do

@@vivid_blossoms What is that based on?

@@BillyWhaler it could be that they don’t want to actually do this concept, and they’re in a contract. Also I don’t see why people have to believe what I do and why do they have to respect what I believe in?

@@vivid_blossoms no one has to believe in something you do or don't do to respect it. It's generally expected to be respectful of everyone's faith and Christian beliefs shouldn't be an exception to that. Such things have a larger impact as opposed to just one person's opinion on something. Besides, it's not so much about respect as it is about disrespect

It’s true. It’s odd to think that like people don’t disrespect other religions Go into any comment section about Islam for example, plenty of disrespect there.

good point. Personally i never saw that as disrespect. I even use Christianity symbolism in many things bc its fascinating in itself with its already documented lore in explaining things etc. Ive seen Christianity used in many types of stories and movies and never found them disrespectful just ways to showcase something many people universally believe in. I think however there is room for criticism and Christians that take the bible super seriously have a right to criticize but the reason its not a huge deal fro us in the US is bc Lesserafim is not the first nor will be the last that showed religious symbolism as way to convey a message--a way for Christians to make a connection to their religion as well. As for other religions, i cannot speak on them and like Christians they are allowed to criticize too. Goes to show how corrupted religion is in the US, and let me tell u its gotten worse over the years--hence why lesserafim can continue doing this bc most people that like them here hate religions of all kinds in general

The very mention of "double standards" as a gotcha moment is often the mark of a blindness for nuance and context. As if the same standards should mindlessly be applied to everything, everywhere, everytime. Different situations -> different outcomes.

Thank you for putting my thoughts into such a well written comment! Although I´m an atheist, I was born in an orthodox country and raised in a catholic country. I was dying inside when reading some of these comments where people were talking as if Christians are some persecuted minority who are not given the voice to defend themselves. Christians are at the top of the hierarchy when it comes to religions, at least in the west. If they found this stuff offensive, they would definitively make themselves heard, specially in a conservative country like South Korea. The reason there is no backlash is because, again, they are at the top of the hierarchy. Why would they be bothered by such a thing?

THANK YOU

THANK YOU

When has any K-pop stan said that?

​@vivid_blossoms you'd be surprised 😅

thank you so much for being a realistic christian. but you’re preaching to the choir, this person will never care about this take nor consider it because unfortunately someone like this got lost a long time ago. it always fulfills my soul to meet a very realistic religious person though

Point 1: I have to strongly disagree with this paragraph. First off, using the word "attack" is wrong on so many levels. I said that as believer we should call out church leaders when they do something that is clearly against the word of God, accountability and attacking are not the same thing, so "humbly" listen to what I said and do not put words in my mouth. As for your quoting of Romans 14, I am annoyed that you even believe this counts as an scripture to interpret this situation. One of Paul's biggest responsibilities in his ministry was to help transition Christians from a life of following the law of Moses to submitting themselves to grace. In this scripture, his focus is alert the church that focusing on such minuet details such as what a person believes they should eat or drink is not a good enough reason to isolate someone from the gatherings. The Holy Spirit is responsible for convicting the person and God will deal with them accordingly. Even Peter was still stuck on tradition when he had the vision of the blanket that fell from heaven with all kinds of animals and the Lord told him to eat. This was a struggle with the early church and that was Paul was addressing. Minuet details about what to eat or wear, or whether to kneel when praying or standing up are not the same as taking a place that is dedicated to God as a house of prayer and letting a group that clearly has no respect for God or Christianity to perform in. Jesus literally cast out money changers from a temple with a whip and stated "It is written; My house shall be called a house of prayer,' but you have made it a 'den of thieves" Using a "difference of communities" as an argument to not speak up is insane because the only standard that decides whether that is wrong or not for every Christian no matter the country is God's Word. That opinion doesn't hold water to me, I'd have to disagree strongly on that one. 2. Point out a part in this video where I said Christianity is beyond criticism and I'll apologize. Yes, there are times Christianity has been used to oppress free speech, I've studied enough history to not deny it, but it is not every Christian individual's fault which makes it irrelevant in this context, why should take that in consideration when I am not doing the same thing? For you to use an argument so many non-believers use to try and gaslight us into silence when we call out clear disrespect of our faith is telling and not in the best way. 3. I understand art evolving, I understand times changing, I understand freedom of expression through art changing, but I believe there is something that doesn't change, and that is God's Word. That is my standard for criticism, not the worldly standards of what has become acceptable over time, and what hasn't. It is not the world Le sserafim disrespected, it is God, therefore I uses His standards to determine whether this form of expression of Art is disrespectful to Him or not. It's not about me, you, history, evolution of art or my feelings, its about Him and what He expects which he mentions clearly through His word. Again, in my opinion, this point is irrelevant because the world's evolution in art doesn't matter in this context. 4. "Art is supposed to be provocative. Let us not be like today's snowflakes who are offended by things like the statue of David being nude or that some artists depict the Madonna as having an exposed breast." Again I agree with this statement in solation, but this is not David, he is human, like you and me. David is not God. Le sserafim's concept is centered around rebellion against God, not some biblical character, God Himself. Pushing boundaries and questioning the norm is not the same as literally breaking those boundaries because I know as well as you do, these boundaries would never be pushed with any other religion. When Le sserafim get brave enough to do that with Islam, you can talk to me. 5. Point out a timestamp where I asked anything of Le sserafim, and again, I will apologize. I addressed two sets of people, non-Christians and Christians. Even towards the end I clearly stated that this was for those who believed as Christians we have no basis to be upset by what was done, I asked that Christians be given the room to speak out because we deserve that space, and as I can see from the comment section, I achieved that goal, then I addressed Christians to remember to forgive as we are commanded to do and to move on however to see fit whether it included unstanning the group or not. I never asked Le sserafim for anything, nor did I state what I expect from them personally, I only addressed the issue of bearing responsibility but again that was for k-pop stans and how the distribute responsibility and the hypothetical situation of the Korean members being Christians. As for Salman Rushdie, he did what he did, and you are right, I don't believe that he should be killed but my issue is acting as if people cannot criticize what he did. Again I do not engage in "snowflake" behavior but there is a difference between the lack of willingness to handle difference of opinion and throwing a tantrum every time things do not go your way versus speaking up again disrespect against a being you believe to be the divine and the source of life and morality. Calling someone who won't accept disrespect to their faith a "snowflake" is to lose meaning of that word entirely. 6. "Maybe Christianity is the most disrespected religion in the whole world. So what?" My reasoning was always that non-believers wouldn't allow this for any other religion. They go up in arms for them, come up with names to call people, and viciously attack anyone who thinks disrespecting religions is okay but that is not applied to Christianity. The term for that is "double standards" and again, it is perfectly within my rights to call it out. You can appreciate living in a world where Christianity isn't used as an iron fist to control people, but that doesn't mean that you swing to the other side of the pendulum and tolerate disrespect. And the fact that you even think I should "gladly pay the price of some artist making fun of my religion" as you put it to show I am not a a snowflake is one hell of an asinine point to make. I am choosing to go with Romans 12:2, I will not conform just because that is what the world thinks I should do. If something is not okay, like everything else on my channel, I'll speak up against it, and no amount of calling me a "snowflake" is going to change that.

Point 1: His word might not change, what we Humans do with it and how we worship and what we tolerate sure does however. For example, it has been long-standing tradition among churches, including the one I attend, to be a center of a community and to allow artists to perform. My own church choir regularly performs with artists inside the church. We sing all kind of music - Mozart, Verdi, Mendelson. We also work with singers from outside for the more challenging solo parts (which we do not ask about religion before engaging them). A church is a house of prayer, first and foremost, yes. However, it is not exclusively that and we humans have treated it as a place of refuge, a fortification, a museum, a hospital and as a place of artistic performances in the past. Point 2: We live in societies where (ideally) there is a freedom of expression. That means religion has no right to influence art or science or enact prohibtions on it. Do you agree with these fundamental human rights? Point 3&4: HIS words do not change. What we humans think of it and what actions we interpret as being disrespectful to god however does. The depiction of "The Creation of Adam" would have been seens as being disrespectful and heresy and forbidden only a few centuries before its creation. Likewise, you are applying your interpretation and the interpretations of other humans. So was Michaelangelo a heretic worse than Le Sserafim? If you ask an iconoclast (or any member following an iconoclastic sect of Christianity today) then yes, he very much was. Ask the same question of a person of the 15th century and the answer is "no." Ask a radical protestant in the 16th century and the answer is "yes" again. And if you had the hypothetical change to ask a christian from the 25th century about what he considered not to be a disrespect to god then that answer might shock you. People revered as Saints today have had very much differing opinions on what constitutes disrespect to god, ranging from depicting him being highly disrespectful to even believing god would be honored by an artistic dialogue. Heck, one of the bishops of Alexandria (and I assume you know the significance of that pentarchic seat) even thought there was nothing wrong between believing in Neoplatonism and God at the same time. Do you presume you know better than all of them? Do you presume to know the intention of God that specifically that you know this performance offends him? Do you know wether Le Sserafim or alll those people mentioned are in his grace or not? No christian can know those things for certain. We are all guessing. Point 5&6: I don't get this whataboutism about Islam. I have defended the right of people to publish caricatures of Mohammed before and I think radical Islam is a real threat to modern values and to democracy. But what Le Sserafim does ranks as very low on the "disrespect to Christians scale" given what is going on in many parts of the wrold right now. Especially because I have not even seen somebody yet to conclusively prove that the intent here is to disrespect Christianity. I see an artistic engagement with religion and its rules, something that has happened an incalculable amount of times in human history. The main differnce to me is between thinking something is done in bad taste or to perceive it as an insult and the consequences of that. We humans are amazing at picking what part of the bible we observe and which ones we chose to disregard and those standards differ heavily from century to century as humans evolve. Extramaritial sex, what to eat, what holy days to observe in what manner have all been changed over the centuries. You yourself are picking and choosing what to believe and what not, or do you take everything in the bible literally? Do you, for example, believe Homosexuality is a sin? That extramarital sex is a sin? The core issue is how you define what disrespects God and his laws. That is why I used Romans 14, which you then said were minor details. However other christians might think different about observing dietary laws or the Sabbath. So I would suggest not throwing a stone here.

@@ErikLudwig-ql6rk EAT HER UP ERIKKKK‼️‼️‼️

Saving this comment. I agree with this pov about art.

Well said, couldn't agree more

@@RosaRubiginosa016 They always confuse an attack on religion as an attack on all believers. They talk about "disrespecting religion" when in reality they don't want their core values to be questioned. But I think the fundamental ideas of Christianity about God and Lucifer are bs, am I not allowed to say it and explain why? Art exists also for this and SO many artists and writers have been persecuted in the past for "disrespecting religion"

@@lavistelle6031 I can understand why some christians could feel offended by this, but is seriously not that deep and is just a concept used to differentiate and sell a group in a very competitive industry

@@RosaRubiginosa016 If they were doing caricatures of Christians then yes I would see the problem. But they aren't, the message is against the ideology, not against the believers

I could not have worded my thoughts about their concept/the Easy video more perfectly than this.

What r u yappin

I think every religion “thinks” that the all religions are safe from online attack except their own

We refer to “groups” within Christianity as denominations, love

Cap

for Muslims, whenever we see someone who is mocking Islam in any kind of ways, we immediately stop supporting them, and if it was super disrespectful cancel them, they should understand that religions are very sensitive things, and for you guys should do the same as well for Christianity to stop these people from using your religion in a bad way

@@mirassama4604 i’m already just a casual listener of LSFM…by which I mean I like their debut and “Sour Grapes,” and I like “Antifragile” for the dance (the song itself is mid). But every release after just hasn’t done it for me. Won’t be too difficult for me to stop supporting them.

I understand you have different opinions, and I don’t think that her thoughts were 100% correct, but I’ve done months of research into this conflict. I’m not on either side, but the truth of the matter (from how I understand it) is that her views weren’t necessarily wrong. She didn’t say which side she’s on, nor did she say anything really controversial. She just stated two facts about the war, and then said that boycotting fast food chains does nothing to the war, and we see that now. She didn’t mention any of the top allegations, she didn’t say which side is “right.” Her main point was that boycotting Korean companies for a war that they haven’t been involved in is dumb. It was the comments that mentioned those allegations, not her.

Why should they apologize for it?

you literally ate

Hello, Chirstian Catholic here (From West Europe) I agree a lot with your points but also think it can be applied to monotheistic religion as a hole. It's not really a Christian only tjink (being created by men, used by them to dismissed and lower women's right and ability to voice their opinion). Also, the issue is not really to criticize Christianity (Charlie Hebdo is a French journal known for that with sitire and humorous drawings, pedophilia and other SA, and the wealth the Vatican was able to gather during centuries when the crhist wanted to live in poverty, how it was used during colonisation to justify it and applied there, the sectarism and close mindset you often find, how they exhibit savior syndrom in less developed country...) Honestly, Christianity is often criticize where i live and i tjink it's an important part to improve, better it self. The culture (pop/mass/classical) often mock religious people (often Christian since it was for a long time the majority by a miles). But, the issue lies with the fact it's often the only religion - at least where i'm from, since a lot of past christian country have freedom of speech.

@@lanou5392 Hey! Thank you so much for your kind reply

@@cappuccinobean2442 I'm not going to be efficient in my answer and I apologize for that. Please do not mind the grammar mistake it's quite late and I'm sleepy. It's alright you're very respectful and quite kind. Thank you 😊 I think k-pop disrespect Christianity or to be more more precise is not mindful of the religion. But they are not the only one. Christianity is often used as a divertissement. This is a kind of disrespect. Previously I talked about pop culture in some counties in Europe (it may apply to the west in general) where cultures used by people dismissed religion or used them for tropes. In an horror movie, you're going to see a priest who performs an exorcism, you're going to see a nun, there are going to use the mental picture of the devil. It's worse when it's for p*rn... Or even sexy cosplay. It's the same in east Asia, more specifically in Korea, but also Japan where priests and nuns are used as tropes, in manga, webtoon, drama but also music- K-pop in our case. I find LSF concept a little bit disrespectful but it's not like it's an insult. There is a degree to disrespect and what LSF is still quite mild. What's bothering some folks is when people do not recognize it can be insensitive to Christian or religious people as a whole. We're seen as cry baby. But I think debating how we perceive and use our religion in our culture and how others can do the same but differently create a new perspective on the religion. But also how some christians don't see the world the same. For example, the mega church and the modern church looking like stores in the USA are quite shoking to me, more than what LSF did. here I'm from, even though money is always in the discussion, we want our church to represent values or symbols. Cathedral are in the form of a Cross from above, the huge glass vitrail are a representation of the light, enlightenment and spiritual elevation. It must be pretty, it's because God made the world pretty with a lot of details. Nature is a lot of details. And details can be symbols. It's not supposed to be a divertissement, a spectacle. But it is a different interpretation. To each their own, I guess But you're right, we're using a different religion in the cultures and we don't see them complain. I think it's for two main reasons : 1. They are not a part of a huge group of people powerful enough to be heard :( 2. They don't see it as disrespectful. There is maybe a point to make here, maybe it's about the line between cultural appropriation and appreciation. (I'm not using these terms to downplay what POC have endured and how they want to protect, preserve and use their culture) We don't draw the line in the sand place, some are going to be really encouraging of people trying part of their culture (it could be religion, clothing, food or music) and some want their culture to be left alone. I'm sorry if it's confusing, I'm not sure how to articulate my point here. May you understand what gibberish I was trying to explain. I'll come back later to deepen my own opinion and share it with you if you still agree with that :)

what controversy?

at least you are consistent, I respect that better than anyone who picks and chooses what religion can be disrespected.

as we should. All religions are the same to me, they just have different books and rules and regulations that are different depending on the cultural significance it represents but also lead to the same path just in different ways.

i feel your opinion. for me every religion is criminal and disgusting and just causes wars

So, because you're Not Religious, it's okay to disrespect other people's faith, Just because YOU're not part of it? What Kind of thinking is that?? So, If you're hetero, it's okay to disrespect homosexuals, since it doesn't affect you either, or what??? By your Logic, that would apply to anything 🙄 absolutely ridiuculous! Just because you're Not Religious, doesn't mean it's okay to start mocking what other people quite literally put their Hearts into! Your comment is disgusting

I hate this argument about this stuff being art… You can say it’s art but it’s not good art and it’s disrespectful… the community is telling you it’s disrespectful and you’re ignoring it. Which is funny cus the more I sit and think the more I realize that’s a common trait with alot of y’all kpop Stans. Y’all openly disrespect cultures and don’t care…

Just single-handedly proved why this video exists

Glorifying evil doesn't bring goodness and mercy , humanity will be better off glorifying virtues instead of glorifying evils like pride, lust, envy, greed etc 😊

1. christianity is not the most common religion, buddhism is. most koreans consider themselves non-religious, so christians in korea are definitely a minority 2. a lot of people just use these religions as an aesthetic, and it is disrespectful. why do you think muslims get angry at blackpink for using ganesha, or hindus for using the bindi? because they have meaning, and these groups are using them as a fashion statement, disregarding their history. 3. art is critical, but art can also be disrespectful. just because it's labeled under "art" it doesn't get the automatic pass to not offend people. 4. she's not assuming, they ARE using it in a superficial way. if they weren't, either their lore would've remained consistent or they would've used other religious figures with the same theme indiscriminately, as their point is not the religion but the message. but they're not. 5. just as critical art is not always disrespectful, disrespectful art is not always critical. think about that

​@@rivkeg7599Ganesha is related to Hindus, not Muslims. Bindis have nothing to do with religion. Check your facts.

There's no satanic panic. People just want their beliefs to be respected.

But Christians can do things that people from other religions can’t.

I don't know from who you are and so I don't know if your world view is different, because of different events. But out of my head I can not think about any attack that was because of Chrisianity in recent times, but I can think about some that had Islamic reasons behind it. I think socialy they had it more bad, like you just needed to look like one and boom you are a terrorist.

@@lucycarlay8547 That's a good point that I do agree with. They've definitely had it worse recently. I think part of the reason I personally think Christianity is viewed more negatively is simply because there are not a lot of Muslim people where I live. Plus, most of my friends and I are gay, so all of us have faced some sort of discrimination from religious extremists, who tend to be "Christian" where I live. I also live in America, so a large part of "Christians" in the media belong to a specific brand of religious extremism that is generally not well liked in my social circles. When I'm referring to atrocities, I'm largely referring to the whole structure of colonialism, which itself is inherently built off of a twisted version of the Christian faith. Looking at it from an objective lens, I think you're right. Thank you for taking the time to respond to my comment, it really means a lot to me.

@@lucycarlay8547 Outright recent attacks? No. But people (mostly in the US) pushing for laws to be passed based on their religious beliefs, that will impact people not of that faith? Absolutely. It doesn't have to be a terrorist attack to have an impact on others - and atrocities from the past can absolutely still have an impact in the present.

@@RSkies fair points. I am not from the US, so I don't really know that oh yeah, maybe I should have given some examples. And recent I times I think about the last 10 years 2015-2024. And I was thinking about the attack were people drove trucks in huge crowds in Europe. In france was a big one and in germany people got killed in a christmas market. Last year tried some this, but got stopped. Oh and the one french satire newspaper, who got attacked by facist Islamic people. But yeah, that is just what is stuck in my head, when thinking about religion. Maybe the difference, between Europe and the USA is also probaly because of the Mega churches. Btw I mostly mean the west of Europe the east is also different.

@@reveluvies2447 yeah, that is also a good point. I am from Germany and west Europe had mostly deathly attacks from the east Terrorist. So that what got me thinking and also 9/11. But I also could not tell you if exrtem christian have risen more. Far right yes. Oh and I also think that the east still has some religion conflicts about it. But do not count on me I am just saying it, and when it is wrong y'all can correct me.

she stated in the video that Christianity isn't the only thing that le sserafim's music symbolizes. its just the use of religious symbols that come off as offensive. like the bp mv that had a scene deleted bc of a Hindu god on the floor, the mv wasn't focused on degrading the god, but it was the fact that they used that kind of symbolism to represent that. or NCT's mv close to the mosque. Islam wasn't what NCT was going for, but it was the fact that they were using it as symbolism for something else. le sserafim's music def represents many things, but using highly sacred religious symbols is definitely not it. this isn't a hate train for le sserafim, but a wake-up call to christians who blatantly deny and tolerate such mockery of Christianity. all the things you have said are being disproved in the video. just because this video accidentally caused a hate train doesn't mean that this was the intent. Cheryl literally said at the end of the video to "forgive and move on", forgive being the KEY word here. art is what you interpret it to be, but that doesn't mean its an objective truth. there are many objective truths in the world, but interpretation is def not one of them. to christians, what le sserafim did was, in one way artistic expression, and in the other way, artistic expression using sacred symbols of religion that should never be used in vain.

@@jessicalin831 True and just like you said about Cheryl’s video they probably aren’t even trying to mock Christianity. That might not be the intention but that is how some people are taking it as. Not everyone is just going to ‘forgive and move on’ because of the fact that people interpret things differently. They could just be trying to tell a story though and there’s nothing wrong with doing that to bring light to how we are in every day life because their lyrics, the videos, everything they depict in those mvs are how we are as humans. We should stop judging everything how we see it because we don’t have eyes of god. We should look at things like this in a deeper way if we really care so deeply about it.

@@jazzyedwards3871 i think ur still forgetting the fact that le sserafim's music videos always include at least one biblical symbol. the fact still remains that le sserafim is using god's name in vain, representing sinful desires with a holy symbol. either way, religion isn't to be taken lightly, and le sserafim did that. the meaning can be debated a million different ways, but that doesn't negate the fact that le sserafim offended Christians by misusing and "dirtying" their sacred symbols

my mom came from a pentecost church too! christians judging other christians is crazy to me?? ignore their foolishness and keep following Jesus and dont worry about those that talk and judge, God will be judging them for their actions, and he will be dealing with them behind closed doors. dont be afraid to speak up, and proudly confess Christ, God honours that! you are so right its between God and yourself!! Congrats on getting baptized, God is good!!

Maybe your problem is that you’re ashamed

@@vivid_blossoms I wasn't before I was exposed to so much of the internet but I'm not anymore

They think as long as 'they let Jesus into their heart' and repent on their deathbed they'll get a free pass into some eternal paradise when they die. If you need a book as a moral guide, and only act 'good' for some eternal reward then youre not a good person.

I didn't think the video made it seem as if only Christianity was affected, I believe it was more focused on Christianity as it is the religion she can speak more properly about and as well bc it's the religion that is more present on lsf concept itself, it doesn't ignore other examples. And other than that I believe most people know it's not the first nor the last time of a religion being used for conceptual stuff, but the discussions on where to draw the respectful line I still believe are worth having.

@@tessie4698 "I don't think the video made it seem as only christianity was sffected." The literal title: "The only religion k-pop can disrespect". Hidden information. "It doesn't ignore other examples" while in the eve, psyche and bluebeard's wife there's two more religions that are practiced 'til this day. I respect your opinion, but with the base of what was said and double standards, I completely disagree.

lmaooooo not you saying atheists equal ppl who follow satanic religions?? do your research before saying such stupid things

Same here!! The very concept of the group itself is Antichrist.

omg youre onto something hold on

precisely. this is different bc in america christians are wayyy more lax vs in her country. she has the right to criticize and not support and i think her bringing this up is a really good for discussion. But I will say since she's not american i can understand why shes confused and should simply withdraw support in the end with lesserafim since this is their concept being greenlit in america

I think that for a lot of believers it goes a little beyond just the church case as she pointed out in this video, but I don't mean no hate towards the lsf girls whatsoever

I'm not sure for the Christian of Norh America, but in most of Europe, dancing in church, singing or filming a video here for divertisment is quite a big no-no. I agree with the rest of your comment, though :)

I do believe in God, my responsibility is a believer is to walk as Jesus walked. When He found money changers in the Temple, he drove them out and emphasized "It is written, 'My house shall be called a house of prayer,' but you have made it a 'den of thieves" It is because I believe in God that I refuse to watch places of worship be turned into mockery for the world. I may not believe that symbolism saves me but when I have to speak up to defend my faith, I take on that responsibility, which I will be answerable to God for. I reverence him enough to do that.

@@blackmamba_egu Jesus is NOT God, he's Son of God. P.S. simple question, what you think about LGBTQ+ and in*est?

@@user-lt1qx3me1i John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, AND THE WORD WAS GOD" vs 14: "And the Word BECAME flesh and dwelt among us" Jesus is God. What's the point of the second question? Like genuinely curious. Are you asking if I think they are wrong or?? I'm lost.

@@blackmamba_egu once again.Jesus is NOT God. In Bible LGBTQ+ is a sin, in reality is normal . In Bible in*est is normal(Adam and Eve was only one people,who was created).In reality it's NOT normal.

sorry I took so long, school and work are killing me 😭

@everglowup Girlll ! how did you even got time to record and edit a video at this point?! 🥲 take a good rest when you can ❤️

It didn't hit me until I saw blackpinks checkered floor, pink venom, black mamba , the one eye symbolism ,that it's the same masonic industry

Your point does not make sense, christianity is a popular religion in Korea, but if anything that makes it worse. Of course people can use the image of christianity however they please, but when this happens it should be acceptable to critique it, much like we see with Hindu and Islam. Le Sserafim can do an angels and demons concept fine, but Christians are allowed to be upset by that.

Who isn’t allowing Christians to be upset? Some Christians are upset, other people (including other Christians) are not. Sometimes the latter group are clearly just defending their faves no matter what, but there are others who are aware of the long history of Christians using the biblical imagery in art. And everyone is “allowed” to say these things because that’s how we learn from each other. Conversation isn’t just someone preaching to someone. It’s shocking I know, but sometimes people will say things, and other people will disagree with them. Someone disagreeing with you isn’t making it illegal for you to say that you find the video disrespectful. You disagreeing with me isn’t preventing me from sharing my opinion.

@@user-rk5sk6sh8s literally all the people saying that it’s not a big deal and Christian’s need to get over it. Literally all the people excusing it and not treating it the same as other religions. You know the whole reason the video was made in the first place Also I literally don’t know why you are acting like I said people don’t get an opinion just that actions have consequences and that an acceptable consequence for using religious imagery opens you up to criticism on the basis of religion. Once again Le Sheraton can do what they want but people have a right to be upset by that.

And what is it? It's an ideology. Why can't an ideology be a concept?

@@lavistelle6031 a religion isn't an ideology, the definition is literally "the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods" or "a particular system of faith and worship". A religion doesn't apply well to a concept or even a "esthetisation". We can define it, not conceptualize it. Maybe if your English is good, take a look at the works of Emile Durkheim or Max Lynn Stackhouse:)

@@gaellelm6678 Why doesn't it apply well to concepts? Religion has been represented in art for as long as humans have existed. Is it only a problem when the art is criticizing the religion and not worshipping the God? What about songs like "Take me to Church" by Hozier then? Also, religion is not just believing in God, it's also following his moral code and agreeing with his ideas. If you are a religious you see the moral code and ideas as something sacred that cannot be questioned, but the non religious people don't see them as sacred and can and WILL criticize it. Saying "no you can't do that" is censorship. The idea behind Le Sserafim concept was the idea that Satan was right in rebelling against God. Why can't this be a concept? Why is it wrong? Explain it, explain why it's disrespectful

@@lavistelle6031 maybe it's my bad, but since you had written 'concept' without an 's' a thought you talk about the idea of a religion, not an "concept in art". And yes art always had taked inspiration from religion, some work were also super critical of religions, but except in philosophy, most of these critics were towards the practice of the religion, not the religion itself. Well, even here your example with Hozier don't work the same than in le serafim case, since it's not an attack on Christianity as a all ( in its essence, Hozier don't put in question the concept/idea of a religion and its core) but some practices of the believers which exceed from the core/canon of the religion ( so here the bullying of gays, even killing committed by Christians on the community), thus its not attacking the representation of god (directly at least). So it's very different from le sserafim which mock the core of the religion ( so mocking the sacrifice of Jesus by wearing crowns, sacrifice which is the most essential part of the system of belief for Christian). Once again, if you're interested in the topic of religion (and it's definition) please look after the two names I already give you. P.s : no need to be this aggressive, it's just a comment section. Have a good day or night :)

​@@gaellelm6678Sorry if I sounded aggressive, not my intention. Idon't agree on Hozier. What you say is the mv, but the lyrics is an attack on some of the fundamental ideas of Christianity like "being born sick", "only then I'm human, only then I'm clean" and "shrine of your lies" and so on. It's all stuff that seems pretty crucial to me when I think about Christianity. To the point that it was called blasphemy at the time (at least in my country) when it came out. As for Le Sserafim, I agree they are attacking the core values, but here's the question: can't those values be criticized? I have seen many people making compelling arguments against the idea of God being benevolent and in favor of the idea of Satan being right in challenging a God like that. These are all valid ideas made with reasons and not just to hate. So behind Le Sserafim's video there isn't just hate, there are arguments that intelligent people have been making for a very long time. Art should be allowed to represent this and I don't see why Christians get angry instead or engaging in a discussion

It's a video about Christianity and that would no longer be the focus if she said anything about it. She didn't bring it up because it was simply not relevant.

@@Stay_Zerose I commented because she did bring it up, that’s what the quote from the video is referencing

@@Stay_Zerose she brought up Islam

How is christianty homophobic Is it Christian's or the Christian doctrine

@@FaveDike someone hasn't read the bible

Homosexuality is a sin in Christianity no matter how much the world changes the Bible and Christianity wouldn't change Plus I have read the bible

@@FaveDike that's a homophobic teaching dear, therefore Christianity has homophobic teachings which makes it homophobic voila

and Islam teaches what exactly? I don't see anyone who cares to bring that up when Islam is disrespected 😐

what

Did you learn history? At all?

ALSO, I think it speaks volumes about how many people want to shift the accountability by saying things like: “If your faith and religion is so strong, then there is no reason to be upset.” There is not a single person out there who doesn’t suffer from doubt. It is human nature to be swayed and skeptical based on other’s perceptions of you and what you believe in. Having people question you is not a comfortable experience for anyone, even moreso when it’s entire populations worth of people. Everyone has a right to how they feel, and it doesn’t make any significant statement about the religion as a whole but rather about those people as individuals. It’s not easy to tolerate disrespect, even when you believe you are just in your beliefs.

I mean... art has the right to be disrespectful. You just don't have to respect disrespectful art.

100 percent!

they wouldn't last a week 😭

We take our religion seriously and we will make sure to boycott straight away if such thing happens. Deen over temporary dunya.