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The Problem with Hierarchy

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Andrewism

Andrewism

Күн бұрын

Пікірлер: 642
@matthew_w98
@matthew_w98 2 жыл бұрын
"If you believe human nature is naturally irresponsible, selfish, and greedy, then we should shift to a new political and economic system that does not encourage and enable those negative tendencies." Yeah I'm going to be using that quote 10/10. Recently discovered this channel and am loving it. Here's a comment for the engagement algorithms ✌
@dontnoable
@dontnoable 2 жыл бұрын
I thought the next bit was gonna be about how cultures are less likely to encourage and foster shite behaviour and attitudes in egalitarian systems but the point still stands even if you don't know or don't agree with that!
@samneibauer4241
@samneibauer4241 2 жыл бұрын
The concept of "human nature" is inherently essentialist, and therefore, should be opposed
@DisOcean8
@DisOcean8 2 жыл бұрын
what if you dont?
@goodboiadvsp3297
@goodboiadvsp3297 2 жыл бұрын
@@DisOcean8 Then you can still advocate for a system that does not literally encourage exploitation and greed. Even if human nature is inherently good which I think it is you can't expect everyone to be so when the opposite is so encouraged in our capitalist system
@fool4343
@fool4343 2 жыл бұрын
@@samneibauer4241 im kinda studying for bachelors in biology and i have a lot of hate towards the idea of "human nature" even though its mostly a philosophical concept, you can scientifically describe humans in very broad strokes, i think like were not logical, but usually pattern seeking, not inherently kind or empathetic, but have the ground to nurture that and even that is kind of essentialist i guess im not very good at philosophy sorry we are whatever our environment tells us to be, not whatever nature had in store for us
@George-gh8ws
@George-gh8ws 2 жыл бұрын
i long believed that parents hold justified authority over their children until I heard of egalitarian hunter gatherer tribes in which children have great independence from a young age. I've also noticed how fascists are obsessed with maintaining hierarchy within the family. They know that if people are not trained to obey from a young age, many won't accept the rule of their leader, the conceptual father of the country.
@wister8528
@wister8528 2 жыл бұрын
i think an authoritarian social structure results in an authoritarian family structure, rather than the reverse. it's the same with school, it's basically a giant wagie simulator (except you don't get paid i guess) because we live under capitalism
@krunkle5136
@krunkle5136 2 жыл бұрын
The point should be though to instill values and education without beating them.
@undeadblizzard
@undeadblizzard 2 жыл бұрын
That was me however ADHD make punishment isn't all it does is see consequences as a score to settle. I no longer fear death so whatever
@aganib4506
@aganib4506 Жыл бұрын
@@krunkle5136 Yes! Let’s the break the cycle.
@icedirt9658
@icedirt9658 Жыл бұрын
Yeah until you consider that the child will grow to respect their parent, and even if they could disobey or do something their parent says is a bad idea, the parent has more experience and skill. The child will listen. Maybe this isn’t hierarchical, but parents objectively have more experience, skill, and physical strength than their children, and in some ways the children will never catch up. (With the exception of shitty parents.)
@SeaforgedArtifacts
@SeaforgedArtifacts 2 жыл бұрын
Strange that opposition to hierarchy is considered "radical" to so many people.
@Wamsuo58u
@Wamsuo58u 2 жыл бұрын
Radical just means going to the root of something so theyre right
@individualm6712
@individualm6712 2 жыл бұрын
except to the insecure. 😥
@EmmaDilemma039
@EmmaDilemma039 2 жыл бұрын
People like the idea of opposing authority far more than actually fighting it.
@altonsafe
@altonsafe 2 жыл бұрын
too busy drinking the koo-laid
@shade9592
@shade9592 2 жыл бұрын
One thing is that many people believe hierarchy to be "natural" and justify it because of this belief.
@bc4198
@bc4198 2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for this! I've been trying to understand why some self-declared "anarchist" youtubers are pushing "justified hierarchy", and I have to assume it's because they think they would rank well.
@Zerker161
@Zerker161 2 жыл бұрын
The main reason for this is that capitalism and state ideology is remarkably good at recuperating anti-capitalist/anti-state movements and turning them into pro-capitalist/pro-state movements. The end result is self-described communists/anarchists who believe that communism/anarchism is when you have a more efficient/inclusive welfare state. When one cannot imagine an alternative to what exists, they can only imagine ways to improve it using the now-coopted language of its opposition
@xenoblad
@xenoblad 2 жыл бұрын
It also doesn’t help that positive(as in what something is as opposed to what something is not) descriptions of anarchy are sparse or aren’t to be found.
@sorzin2289
@sorzin2289 2 жыл бұрын
@@Zerker161 Well they did have alot of practice and an argument could be made that they wouldn't be around now if they weren't good at recuperation and cooptation.
@Zerker161
@Zerker161 2 жыл бұрын
@@sorzin2289 That would be a strange argument to make because recuperation isn't a skill, it's a natural function of a system designed to do exactly what it does. It's as much a necessary part of capitalist function as logistics or commodification
@anarchosnowflakist786
@anarchosnowflakist786 2 жыл бұрын
- why some self-declared "anarchist" youtubers are pushing "justified hierarchy" to me it's just because anarchism is getting popular, but they don't want to work on changing their actual perception of the world, so they remain a liberal, often do not read theory, but call themselves an anarchist, and other people like them enable them to do so by muddying the water and writing new corrupted ideas that they call anarchism (hi chomsky, bookchin, and friends) edit : btw this is the same thing in my opinion that led to authoritarian communisms, marx and engels' disapproval of anarchism
@TheXFireball
@TheXFireball 2 жыл бұрын
Comment for the algorithm.
@LexYeen
@LexYeen 2 жыл бұрын
Reply for the algorithm.
@hoon3y534
@hoon3y534 2 жыл бұрын
@@LexYeen reply to reply for the algorithm
@zaquepifer2376
@zaquepifer2376 2 жыл бұрын
Another algorithm reply
@andrewliberacki2674
@andrewliberacki2674 2 жыл бұрын
Yes
@PhilosophicalFiend
@PhilosophicalFiend 2 жыл бұрын
Indeed
@mygetawayart
@mygetawayart 2 жыл бұрын
I have never considered myself an anarchist because of the negative connotations that the term has taken over the years but i agree entirely with the points you made. We are taught from our birth that we must respect hyerarchy or rank. At home we're taught to revere and obey our family (and especially our elders) just for being older than us regardless of how shitty or toxic it can be, at school we're taught to revere and obey the teachers regardless of how actually educated they are or how they do their job, at work we're taught to revere and obey our bosses because they own us regardless of how abusive and unjust that is, we're taught to revere and obey the police because they "keep the peace" regardless of how well they do their job (we've all seen the leaked videos from Uvalde), we're taught to revere and obey the government because they "run the country" regardless of how corrupt and unjust it is, we're told to respect these institutions because otherwise, hyerarchical society doesn't run, because the powerful aren't able to control us.
@lip8781
@lip8781 Жыл бұрын
Thank you for this great comment! You summed it up perfectly!🙌
@drphosferrous
@drphosferrous Жыл бұрын
Its an epic scam stretching throughout human history. We don't consent.
@justaguy6216
@justaguy6216 2 жыл бұрын
I heard an example before where, temporary authority is set up in times of emergency, like natural disaster relief, because it's very time sensitive. Having a previously agreed upon ruleset/chain of command using consensus discussion, can help in making the process more streamlined. Then that chain of command is immediately disposed of once it has outlived its usefulness. What do people think about that?
@keltzar1
@keltzar1 Жыл бұрын
I feel that having certain people taking action to do things like coordinating relief efforts is not inherently authority, at least as Andrew defines it here. The important thing I feel is whether the decision-making this person proposes is backed by a fear of disobedience, rather than these effectively being guidelines used to help coordinate people.
@chesspiece4257
@chesspiece4257 Ай бұрын
he said authority is not a one-time instance, but an ongoing relationship, so i would imagine this doesn’t count
@ForeignManinaForeignLand
@ForeignManinaForeignLand 2 жыл бұрын
Bro I swear you could make the most prolix subject sound poetic and exciting
@Andrewism
@Andrewism 2 жыл бұрын
I sprinkle in a lil lyrical spiritual miracle up in it
@gonzalo4722
@gonzalo4722 2 жыл бұрын
Andrew is anarchist ASMR
@pacotaco1246
@pacotaco1246 2 жыл бұрын
@@gonzalo4722 Anarcho-SMR
@blackflagsnroses6013
@blackflagsnroses6013 2 жыл бұрын
Finally! The Chomsky misconception annoys me because it gives newcomers to Anarchist philosophy a wrong idea and premise. There’s way better way to let people know that organization and order can be, if not only be, done by voluntary and free association and horizontal relations.
@tripleaaakollektiv870
@tripleaaakollektiv870 Жыл бұрын
that brings forth emerging leadership
@drphosferrous
@drphosferrous Жыл бұрын
@tripleaaakollektiv870 consenting to temporarily follow someone's experience or expertise is not an arbitrary heirarchy and it's consensual. People are lazy sometimes though, and have herd animal instincts. So that tendency to venerate and follow a louder or taller person must be constantly questioned and routed out of our consciousness, just like our tendency to decieve and exploit others as their leader.
@XSonofArathornX
@XSonofArathornX Жыл бұрын
I really appreciate the commentary on hierarchy in child-parent relationships. This is something that's incredibly underemphasized in western culture
@marshall4439
@marshall4439 2 жыл бұрын
Andrew, love your content. I would really appreciate hearing your thoughts on how anarchist societies can actually resist hierarchical ones. It seems like the only way anarchy could survive is if the whole world became anarchy at once. Otherwise, if anarchy only sprung up in, say, a single country, then it's hierachical neighbors would see this 'power vacuum' as an excuse to claim interventionism and send their military to take over the anarchic society, which by it's very nature would find difficulty in resisting the hierachical military invasion. If there is a flaw in this reasoning, I would greatly appreciate learning more. It's the sticking point that keeps me from subscribing wholeheartedly to anarchism, though I am greatly sympathetic to it as an ethos.
@Andrewism
@Andrewism 2 жыл бұрын
Right, so to clarify, there isn't meant to be a specific sudden event where anarchy springs up in a certain area. The anarchist vision of revolution is a years-long, ongoing process of both opposition and proposition. Opposition in the sense of direct action against oppressive institutions to dismantle them and proposition in the sense of prefiguration: building robust alternative institutions that reflect the society we wish to establish in a scenario of something called "dual power" wherein two powers - a democratic one developed by poor and working-class people (defined by direct democracy), and the other one capitalist (defined by domination) - coexisting and competing for legitimacy during a transition away from capitalism. These alternative institutions, as organs of an autonomous society, would include unions, defensive militias, popular assemblies, worker and consumer cooperatives, mutual aid networks, etc & these projects, though rooted in the local, will need to be connected with each other in bottom-up, nested confederations and networks of solidarity. Through class struggle and democratic community organising, these orgs will work in tandem to diminish and supersede the economic power of the capitalist class and the political power of the state bureaucracy. This is the transition period anarchists evision. You're concerned about outside aggressors. Fair enough. Anarchists hope for global revolution, in these of this dual power struggle occurring globally. But there would certainly be military aggressors seeking the return of a capitalist regime, which is why horizontal, defensive militia groups will be a necessary aspect of prefiguration. The elites will not sit back and let us take our power back. These militias can coordinate their actions through confederations while maintaining the necessary autonomy to act immediately during localized attacks. Temporary commanders could be elected by the militants themselves when necessary, but their powers should be limited and subordinate to recall by the people. The anarchist FAQ goes in further depth: www.anarchistfederation.net/anarchist-faq/anarchist-faq-section-i-what-would-an-anarchist-society-look-like/#toc52 In addition to outside attacks, there will be attempts from within by power seekers and opportunists to seize control, which is why it is vital to mitigate these efforts through direct democracy and the practice of social insertion I outlined in my especifismo video. Some Marxists may call this transitionary period the dictatorship of the proletariat, but considering how often Marxists and anarchists operate with different definitions for similar terms, I would avoid it. Hope this clarifies some things, and if in doubt, the anarchist FAQ goes far more in-depth than I could in these comments.
@Birbface
@Birbface 2 жыл бұрын
I'm not being glib, but you resist through violence. If your sticking point over anarchism is that you can't imagine what it would look like, you've sort of fallen at the first hurdle. None of us can fully imagine what it looks like because the rules aren't set out or laid down. But autonomous regions and socialist countries exist despite invasions, coups, sanctions. So you kind of need to take your faith in things 'back' from liberalism and neoliberalism, where without your awareness or consent your faith has been pocketed by state and capital to stop you from having to 'worry' about the world. This all sounds vaguely insulting, and... well it is I guess, but you need to believe that it is possible, no matter the difficulty, and it will be difficult. Yes, the genocidal US would try to empire your little autonomous region. You have to sting them again and again until the cost is too high - even then they will still coup you, sanction you, not trade with you. That's how borders have largely been constructed, through extreme violence and extreme resistance.
@empatheticrambo4890
@empatheticrambo4890 2 жыл бұрын
@@Andrewism this sounds like an amazing topic for a video
@miaokuancha2447
@miaokuancha2447 2 жыл бұрын
@@Andrewism Opposition and proposition. I love that. What a beautiful way to put the work of prefiguring. Thank you for the soul food you share.
@LowestofheDead
@LowestofheDead 2 жыл бұрын
Hierarchical militaries aren't better by default - consider the Vietnam war guerrillas against the US, the Zapatistas against the Mexican government, or the Kurdish forces against ISIS. It's a myth that an authority can provide security, probably because authorities always use that as a justification for power.
@AnRel
@AnRel 2 жыл бұрын
This is amazing!!!! Coincidentally I also released a video breaking down hierarchy just yesterday, and I loooove that more people are talking about the semantics and commons misconceptions behind usage of the term. Your expertise blended with the warm self-assured style of your content is so valuable when it comes to hot topics like this.
@Andrewism
@Andrewism 2 жыл бұрын
I've subscribed and I'll check it out!
@AnRel
@AnRel 2 жыл бұрын
@Andrewism oh my goodness, yay! i am both hella stoked and a little terrified 😅
@blakeantinori2107
@blakeantinori2107 2 жыл бұрын
@@Andrewism You should read blackshirts and reds, where Michal Parenti destroys anarchism.
@Maryxus
@Maryxus 2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for making this. I am going to share it with many people in the future
@MisterTactless
@MisterTactless 2 жыл бұрын
You touched on socialist critiques of anarchism briefly in this video. Could you do a whole video about Marxist-Lenininist critique of anarchism and point out its flaws?
@crevail
@crevail 2 жыл бұрын
I for sure second this ^^^
@Andrewism
@Andrewism 2 жыл бұрын
It would be a pretty short video to be fair. I don't have much to say. Most ML critiques of anarchism boil down to a handful of basic misconceptions about what it is, flagrant misrepresentations of what it is, and repainted criticisms of communism. I'll think about it. I'll add that Anark has a solid series on the counterrevolutionary nature of the State, so I'd recommend giving that a watch. kzfaq.info/sun/PLvwoHdNGq9wVy-iR1oHJKoJY2lh6ypXKZ
@Capitulator
@Capitulator 2 жыл бұрын
Yeah it's pretty hard to critique when they simply call anarchists "counterrevolutionary" cause Lenin said so. And call organizing cooperatives or food distribution programs "petite bourgeouis" rather than looking at the theory behind prefiguration.
@Nanook128
@Nanook128 2 жыл бұрын
@@Capitulator what does prefiguration mean in this context?
@Capitulator
@Capitulator 2 жыл бұрын
@@Nanook128 Community developed food security programs and horizontal structures with councils and consensus controling them. Most anarchist programs are designed to eventually be the viable alternative post-revolution with anti-hierarchy already embedded into councils and confederations.
@SynthApprentice
@SynthApprentice Жыл бұрын
2:08 the shade at Leninists is just delicious!
@Hubcool367
@Hubcool367 2 жыл бұрын
I may be a fool, but I've always interpreted Chomsky's "That is what I have always understood to be the essence of anarchism: the conviction that the burden of proof has to be placed on authority, and that it should be dismantled if that burden cannot be met" to mean the same thing you mean: in the end, no authority can rightly justify itself/be justified. While it seems that Chomsky leaves the possibility that some authority is justified, or it may even imply that there really is such a thing as justified authority, I've always interpreted that as merely an invitation to critically think about the justifiability of authority, instead of asking us to dogmatically accept, without prior thinking, that "no authority can be justified". In other words, the conclusion is the same: indeed, no authority can be justified, but in one case you took someone's word for it and in the other, you came to that conclusion yourself. It's reminiscent of the socratic method to me, leaving people with the "possibility" that they may know something, but ultimately letting them realize for themselves that they know nothing.
@LexYeen
@LexYeen 2 жыл бұрын
Saw the notification and had to watch. 🤘 Edit: You took me to _class_ and I didn't just learn, I enjoyed it.
@andrewlipnick8131
@andrewlipnick8131 2 жыл бұрын
I'd love a video on anarchist parenting. Whenever I ask an anarchist to explain how parenting would work without heirarchy they always seem to say that a relationship isn't heirarcical if it is based on love and effection, even if it involves one party making decisions for another. To me this just comes across as dismissing rather than justifying heirarchy which is worse because it doesn't recognize the situation for what it is.
@muhammadfathonihanif5500
@muhammadfathonihanif5500 2 жыл бұрын
That's true. I think the most important is how as older figure in child lives whether parent, sibling, or others we help a child learn while understanding a child is a whole person that often knows and feels more than we assume. Ensuring they have a say and agency in their lives and decision concerning them. It will be harder and more time consuming than just commanding a child but that is why the people that see the hierarchy in parenthood often says it takes a village. It is intrinsically linked to many other cause like youth liberation, family liberation/abolition, and feminism. I think Durruti anecdote about how he did care in the home for his daughter Collete and his partner Emilienne is important example to not fall into what you described. Anarchy is for the people and the children are people too.
@andrewlipnick8131
@andrewlipnick8131 2 жыл бұрын
@@muhammadfathonihanif5500 I agree, I see how and why we should make parenting less heirarcical, but I don't see how it can be done without any heirarch what's so ever. For example, if I said that my partner isn't allowed to leave the house unaccompanied, isn't allowed to prepare their own food or decide what food I prepare for them, and isn't allowed to have guests over without me letting them in you'd be right to say that this is wrong and an unjust heirarchy. But if you replace the word partner with new born infant then everything is ok. Obviously as kids get older it is important to instill independence and not use violence but I don't think saying heirarchy has no place in parenting fully describes the picture unless you use some definition of heirarchy and authority that is different from the colloquial one.
@andrewbowen2837
@andrewbowen2837 2 жыл бұрын
Read "Emile" by Rousseau
@AlbeyAmakiir
@AlbeyAmakiir 2 жыл бұрын
While I'm not terribly involved in their lives, I know someone who is doing this with their kids. From what I gather, giving your kids the freedom to make their own decisions doesn't mean there's no pushback. - You can have your boundaries, which you can explain so they understand (to a level they are capable of), which can in turn help them understand their own boundaries. - If something is not working (say, your regular dinner time) you can work with them to find a solution that benefits you both. - You can provide advice without expectation that they must follow it (especially since things change and what was true in your day might no longer be). - You can teach them how to do the things they want to do, or otherwise involve them (if they want to prepare dinner, ask them for help, or show them what you do, or even let them while being there to support them and also being prepared to have a weird dinner/make backup dinner). - You can provide them a safe space to experiment and experience consequences, with follow-ups to help them understand (like the previous dinner example, or, say, let them find out what happens if they refuse to sleep at a convenient time.) - And, worst comes to worst, forcibly holding them back from walking into oncoming traffic is not hierarchy. Just make sure you talk about it afterwards. And you don't need to do it alone. My friend also leans into the "it takes a village" thing. They're technically a single parent, but they are polyamorous, and have several partners who regularly visit and help.
@andrewlipnick8131
@andrewlipnick8131 2 жыл бұрын
@@AlbeyAmakiir those all sound like great ideas and I agree with pretty much everything that you said. I just think that those are examples of minimizing heirarchy rather than eliminating it entirely.
@demonprince3297
@demonprince3297 10 ай бұрын
4:34 "but Andrew, what about Engels?" is a missed opportunity for a Batman slap meme lol. Thank you for the amazing videos Andrew.
@delyodobrev3382
@delyodobrev3382 2 жыл бұрын
Why do i feel like I had this discussion on r/Anarchism just a few days ago? Great video,you always make them enjoyable
@AnRel
@AnRel 2 жыл бұрын
Because it's a conversation that pops up every few days? lol
@KarlSnarks
@KarlSnarks 2 жыл бұрын
@@AnRel Probably even more on r/Anarchy101
@thewizard1
@thewizard1 2 жыл бұрын
Reddit user detected
@anarchosnowflakist786
@anarchosnowflakist786 2 жыл бұрын
@@KarlSnarks and on r/completeanarchy, but that sub is just unmoderated socdem anyways soo
@LowestofheDead
@LowestofheDead 2 жыл бұрын
And r/debateAnarchism. This is why they made AnarchistFAQ
@brasteryakintosh9418
@brasteryakintosh9418 2 жыл бұрын
I think how I think of the idea of anarchism as "opposition to all hierarchy" is that it feels like it needs so much explanation in order to justify it. Hierarchy has such a different definition from its original use and the anarchist definition is so different from how it's colloquially used that I feel like it's reckless not to include qualifiers to make it clear how anarchists see it. I do think "justified hierarchy" isn't a good qualifier, but at the same time, it's a good attempt. I think "violently-enforced hierarchy" would be a little more clear, though violence would need to be expanded upon, but I feel like it's easier to explain how violence doesn't have to be physically striking someone and can be more indirect or more material rather than physical than it is to explain how hierarchy doesn't mean vertical organization in general
@otherperson
@otherperson 2 жыл бұрын
The general term would be a "hierarchical power structure"
@anandatalia16
@anandatalia16 2 жыл бұрын
against coercive hierarchy?
@brasteryakintosh9418
@brasteryakintosh9418 2 жыл бұрын
@@anandatalia16 I think that runs into the same problem. The thing is that I don't think "coercion" really plays a significant enough role in defining oppressive hierarchies more than "violence". I think it is better for quickly defining what factor makes a hierarchy "bad". It just doesn't lead into a discussion that could convince someone. Though maybe it's better to say a "violently coercive hierarchy" which would get across both ideas pretty succinctly
@millykendrill5301
@millykendrill5301 2 жыл бұрын
'Hierarchy' is fine so long as cis straight white men are not the ones in power. Look at any non-European country and you can see how much better the world could potentially be. But first, Christianity must be. destroyed.
@otherperson
@otherperson 2 жыл бұрын
@@millykendrill5301 what a strange take. Plenty of majority non-white countries are oppressive. Simply getting rid of "white countries" would open up space for other people to fill the same imperialistic roles that majority white countries fulfill today. No. If freedom is the goal, all hierarchical power structures must be eradicated.
@rosel4910
@rosel4910 Жыл бұрын
Something about your voice always makes me fell energised. Thank you for all your videos, you're very informative
@blindey
@blindey 6 ай бұрын
Wonderfully put! I always encourage people to say, and argue for, the idea of 'being against hierarchies" rather than "unjustified ones" because everyone is against unjust things, as you said.
@juliettedemaso7588
@juliettedemaso7588 2 жыл бұрын
My favorite channel
@Cia-Coo
@Cia-Coo Жыл бұрын
"You give the authority power, and power has an appetite. Authoritarian power is a license to do harm, even if that wasn't your initial intention." This is an interesting statement to me. What is it about power that transforms a non-violent person into a violent person? What exactly do you define 'power' as?
@PaigeWylderOwO
@PaigeWylderOwO Жыл бұрын
I have a few questions, namely: How would an anarchic system sustain the complex systems that make modern technology and life possible without breaking down into new hierarchal systems? Certain systems like electronics manufacturing require a vast network of collaboration requiring a division of labor and knowledge that would likely form hierarchal power dynamics, as no individual could possibly know or implement all the specialized tasks associated with say for example, silicon chip manufacturing. Silicon chip manufacturing requires a vast network of institutions which themselves can be hierarchal or become part of a bigger multi-institutional hierarchy. How do anarchic systems avoid forming cliques or favoritism that may also serve as a catalyst for hierarchal systems? How does an anarchic system stop individuals from taking power for themselves without a degree of coordination that itself may paradoxically become hierarchal, especially when not everyone can chip in equally to find and stop power grabs or other community transgressions? How does an anarchic system sustain true egalitarianism if there's an inadvertent power/social dynamic between the student and teacher; the helper and the helped; between generations; the transgressors and their punishers; and the connections we have between friends vs strangers, among others. Perhaps this can be done by letting everyone be a teacher, helper, enforcer, etc. in some way or another, but there's a degree of complexity needed to maintain true egalitarian social dynamics between all parties, which becomes more complicated the more people you add to that system. Could you detail more about how anarchic parenting works? I feel like that's a good video topic I'd want to learn more about.
@mekarum
@mekarum 2 жыл бұрын
Great video! Also what bothers me most about supposed "just" hierarchies is that they devolve pretty fast into the other sort at the sight of the slightest disagreement coming from the subordinate side, haha.
@e1123581321345589144
@e1123581321345589144 Жыл бұрын
Societies wouldn't work without hierarchy. In every endeavor that requires some degree of sophistication, you need someone to coordinate things; while no autonomy leads to stagnation, complete autonomy leads to endless debate and gridlock. They both have the same result; for a healthy society you need something in between the two extremes. This is why modern representative democracies work so well, it's a decent compromise between tyranny and anarchy.
@karl2624
@karl2624 2 жыл бұрын
Here I was thinking I was more socialist/communist leaning, but in reality my thinking aligns with anarchy. Wow.
@otherperson
@otherperson 2 жыл бұрын
Nice, although many anarchists are socialists and communists. you should check out Zoe Baker, Anark, Alki, Xee Matthews, and more of the work by Andrewism here!
@sandpiperbf9767
@sandpiperbf9767 2 жыл бұрын
I don't really understand conceptually how abolishing of hierarchy would work
@CThyran
@CThyran 11 ай бұрын
That's the thing, it wouldn't! Hence why it's such a dumb ideology. Even communists think it's stupid.
@FlauFly
@FlauFly 2 жыл бұрын
I can't count how many times I resisted someone framing of anarchism as being against "unjustified" hierarchies, especially in anglophone world. It's frustrating that Chomsky's definition caught up in so many spaces. I was written so many times mini-essays to explain exactly that what this video is all about, but scattering forms of current internet made it lost somewhere. Thankfully now I can point people to this video. It is curious that many people who identify with that definition of anarchism, when asked what is justified hierarchy, very often automatically start with parent-child relationship. But this shows how it obscure rich history of anarchism around pedagogy and child-rearing. Maybe it's trivial to be bothered by technical aspect of definition, but it very often make people interested in anarchism fall back into generic views - especially so common ones as how parent-child relationship should look like.
@dontnoable
@dontnoable 2 жыл бұрын
Yeah it gets disturbing quick when you wonder which heirarchies would be deemed 'justified'. Especially as heirarchies tend to be interlinked. Children, non-human animals, disabled people, marginalised genders and Black people in general are objectified - and the hierachies over them are tight knit. Women are infantilied like children. Children are animalised etc etc. None of these heirarchies should be given air!
@jackmclean4120
@jackmclean4120 2 жыл бұрын
Babe wake up new Andrewism post
@NilesGilmore
@NilesGilmore 2 жыл бұрын
Amazing video as always 😌
@alexandriatempest
@alexandriatempest Жыл бұрын
Honestly I tend to use the "Unjustified Hierarchy" thing to shift conversations slightly more in the direction I want. I mean, who likes an unjust hierarchy? You don't want that. Of course I'm still learning and growing myself and I thing internalizing the concept that Authority is bad actually is an important one. I had viewed it as a thing to be used and removed freely, but I understand what was being said so I'll need to sit with this a bit. I mean, creating a local council to that locals elected to do certain tasks that those same locals can meet to remove easily does not necessarily mean that you are giving them Authority as defined.
@laughinggooner4271
@laughinggooner4271 2 жыл бұрын
Isolating hierarchical criticism to the sociological context is the reason the term is so misunderstood in the first place. Hierarchy exists not just in human social structures but also exists in nature. The issue that people have been having over millennia is not the existence of hierarchies, but the fact that our concept of power corrupts all hierarchies. The very computer system we use to share our opinions is based on hierarchies for data management, storage and processing. The issue is not with the hierarchy it is with the minds constructing and maintaining them. The various nodes in the network simply run on outdated operating systems. This mean that hierarchies within then network are not as effective as they could be. Simply put we can examine how hierarchies are formed in two sets on organisms from a similar specie. Let us take wolves. It was long held that wolves organize into packs with the strongest male at the top and the weaker runts at the bottom. However, this observation was only made in wolves being held in captivity. The wolves when observed in nature still very much had hierarchies, but these were based on who is the oldest "family" member at the time. That means a weak old female may be the leader of a pack in the wild, or in a wolves more favoured habitat, but in captivity the wolves will organize in a military style. This would make sense as the wolves would perceive the environment itself as a threat. The wolves in their natural environment however, organize themselves according to the family structure. The reason hierarchies exist is because of data management, and the fact that with larger and larger amounts of data, the need for parallel processing becomes exponentially greater. Hence, hierarchic structures can be found throughout nature wherever there is sign of data processing. These structures allow for efficient data processing within a brain or computer, or a network of either like a community of people or the internet. The fact is that the physical hierarchy is a benefit, but the data that it is processing may not be good. Again go back to the case of the pack of wolves. In the wild, the experience of the eldest pack member has benefits in two folds. One, it can save the pack time and energy by sharing survival information that might otherwise have to be gained through many games of trial and error. Also the ability to pass on experience in and of itself is important in this context. So the second strength of experience is that the oldest member of the pack being at the top of a hierarchy create a situation where there is a higher probability of majority of the skills a wolf needs to survive will be learned early on in life as this would be the priority of such leadership. So not only does the pack benefit from knowledge of old leaders, but individuals benefit as they become more skillful much faster and their survival as an individual is greatly increased. Now contrast the captured wolves who abandon the idea of using the eldest wolf as a leader and instead go for strength. This benefits the wolves in that more time is spent on training and competing for resources, so that the number of wolves in captivity will be low as the weakest won't be able to survive. There is no skill transfer to help the pack survive, but there is brutal training for the stronger members as they constantly look to sway power in their favour. This means that wolves that can survive the harshness of the pack are those willing to fight back against their captives. Their is a higher chance of escape and lower chance of recapture in this scenario. The behaviours mentioned above can be seen clearly in the contrast between the narratives of pre-Islamic Africa and post colonization Africa and the many epochs in between serve as points of excitation along the spectrum of deeply spiritual and community based to dictatorships and civil wars. The many dictatorships that rose in many countries were a direct result to being exploited and out of shock the population reverting to the military style of governance to give a sense of animalistic security. As I said before, outdated minds working with new methods of exploitation will always respond in a predictable manner, because at the end of the day you cannot exploit an unpredictable resource. The ideas of anarchism are too small and localized to deal with issues that affect billions. There are too many problems that travel faster than the reactions speed of anarchic societies. The true weakness lies in the same predictability of resources versus unpredictability. In other words, there are resources like water and food that can be very unpredictable in certain regions, or periods in time, but the people themselves are predictable. Eventually exploitation will set in as humans are not intellectually equal. This disparity in intellect is probably genetic and cannot be overcome through just education. To compound the issue, the problem is intellectual disparity is dynamic. In one generation you might be smarter than me, but in the next generation my kid is smarter than yours. Hence, there is no true way to predict who will be exploited and who will be doing the exploitation. If we simply rely on social bias, we are playing into the same traps that lead to tribalism, or military rule taking over the pack of wolves who were once traditionalists. The best thing we people in the developing world can do is strive to become better than the Europeans. This is done by playing their game. Add their strengths to your artillery. Don't run from their powerful weapons of deception, separation and propaganda. We mut incorporate these tools into our narrative instead of letting those tools scoop up hopeless INDIVIDUALS into the exploitation barrel of Interest slavery.
@lot110
@lot110 2 жыл бұрын
what a long crap that was!
@sr.mental5876
@sr.mental5876 Жыл бұрын
Hierarchy is the natural state of evolution and life itself. It is constantly changing, ever malleable, but remains there, one creature over another. Be it in skill or biology, it simply is.
@cwinchcarwash2629
@cwinchcarwash2629 2 жыл бұрын
another banger like always, Andrew! :D
@emmr2739
@emmr2739 Жыл бұрын
Thank you so much for all your videos which I discovered today.
@Lazerecho
@Lazerecho 2 жыл бұрын
Words are easy when you change them
@jimbarino2
@jimbarino2 Жыл бұрын
I dunno, I tend to define and "anarchist parent" as "a leftist who doesn't have kids yet"...
@doompoison2365
@doompoison2365 11 ай бұрын
Ah yes the old- "I must coerce and threaten my children into submission because it's convenient for me! 🤡"
@Tesstarossa51
@Tesstarossa51 5 ай бұрын
I'm not Anarchist but still, I gotta give mad respect for just up and admitting that you're against all hierarchy instead of sticking with this incredibly dubious definition of "only the unjustified ones", no one is for unjust hierarchies, that's the entire point of politics
@Andrewism
@Andrewism 5 ай бұрын
Indeed, such a definition is equivalent to saying "my politics is against bad things." Meaningless. Unfortunately the unjustified hierarchy line is among the most popular misconceptions about anarchism these days.
@angeloskoulas3988
@angeloskoulas3988 3 ай бұрын
First of all unjust and unjustified is not the same thing. Everyone is against unjust hierarchies but not everyone is against unjustified hierarchies. Non anarchist politics do not take an axiomatic stance against unjustified hierarchies as hierarchy is not their main focus. In the end, anarchists are against all hierarchy, nobody says they are only against unjustified hierarchies. However using the "hierarchies must justify themselves" rule you shift the narrative into the default goal-state being an anarchic non-hierarchical one, that only when some conditions are met and alternatives are lacking, should we allow hierarchies to temporarily exist. It also helps with prioritizating which hierarchies to dismantle first.
@carlosandresacostayaver3357
@carlosandresacostayaver3357 2 жыл бұрын
Great video! I also loved your solarpunk series. Doing some research on these two subjects (anarchism, and how we can self-organize for a future where science and nature can coexist), I found multiple awesome and rigorous papers about Complexity Sciences, and how we can study and comprehend life through its anarchist behaviors such as emergence, mutual aid, constant sesrch towards more degrees of freedom, autonomy, etc. They also offer an explanation of the world's necessity to overcome Western civilization and it's ideology and colonial imposition of hierarchical structures. Here's the name of one of the papers: "Anarchy and Complexity" by Carlos Eduardo Maldonado and Nathalie Mezza-Garcia.
@uduakobongadedeji4099
@uduakobongadedeji4099 10 ай бұрын
Awesome. Thanks for the book recommendation.
@FearlessSon
@FearlessSon 2 жыл бұрын
This is one of the things that has confounded me a lot. Like, I'm all for leveling systems of power. The problem I face though in reconciling this is that I have found "hierarchy" too useful as a tool of organization. Like, having people who occupy certain areas of responsibility to fulfill, having other people who's responsibility is to coordinate a specific group of people, having another layer of people above that who's responsibility is to coordinate those disparate groups, and on and on as necessary in working toward the completion of a specific project. When there's a disagreement, matter that hits multiple areas of responsibility, or a need for extra support or resources, often that will be kicked up the "coordination chain" to a level where that decision can be made by someone who's area of responsibility involves taking a broader overall view toward the completion of the project. And when the project is fulfilled, the organization can be dissolved or re-organized (to greater or lesser degrees) to meet some new goal. Examples that benefit from this kind of organization are things like a work crew, a development and design team, a manufacturing center, large event planning, or a militant unit. That doesn't sound quite like "hierarchy" under the anarchist definition of the word that you've laid out here. But I don't quite have a word to describe a "report-to" style of organization other than "hierarchy". Is there some better kind of language that anarchists would use to describe this?
@mikaylamaki4689
@mikaylamaki4689 2 жыл бұрын
I think that could be considered a network, rather than a full tree. The biggest difference is that reorganization step you mentioned, under hierarchy that step is slow and painful and violent, but it is essential to what makes the anarchic version both faster and more flexible, and also less violent.
@FearlessSon
@FearlessSon 2 жыл бұрын
@@mikaylamaki4689 Hmm, you did touch on a good word for it though, a "tree" style organization. I come from a software development background, and tree data structures are a thing that's usually important to understand. I'm surprised the word didn't occur to me earlier. Thank you.
@LightGlyphRasengan
@LightGlyphRasengan 2 жыл бұрын
Fantastic video touching on misconceptions of hierarchy
@FoxyFemBoi
@FoxyFemBoi 2 жыл бұрын
Actually, you saying parenting *isn't* "thee" justified hierarchy makes me feel a lot better, not only in terms of the fact that children need more freedom and autonomy than they get in our society, but also makes me think about how people are "rethinking" dog (or animal) training. Because not only does positive reinforcement work better than negative (even if it's not considered "violent" negative reinforcement), but treating a dog as intelligent counterpart on a team, wildly, can make things go a lot more smoothly. And positive reinforcement with something like treats isn't just about a reward--it's about communicating that you're seeing the behaviors you want AND it's an exchange the dog can understand (okay, I will do this in exchange for that). Plus, a lot of my current training has just been to help my dog's anxiety and reactivity toward other people and dogs on walks, or making sure she can heel at least specifically when we cross the street--so it's prioritizing her needs (or safety) rather than my desire for her to be "obedient."
@dontnoable
@dontnoable 2 жыл бұрын
Glad others talking about the interchangeable & oppressive ways we treat animals AND kids. Heirarchies over any group of people can never been contained - it's like letting off a stink bomb in a shoe box. So we must also include for consideration the hierarchy of speciesism and also how our speciesism fosters hierarchies over humans! I highly recommend this talk by Christopher Sebastian on exactly this: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/nNF8adCWvM-9kqM.html
@andrewbowen2837
@andrewbowen2837 2 жыл бұрын
Ah, but that "safety" point can be manipulated very easily. It can turn into an oppressive force quickly, and is often the excuse used for enforcing measures
@FoxyFemBoi
@FoxyFemBoi 2 жыл бұрын
@@andrewbowen2837 Well, yes, but there's a pretty direct difference between keeping a dog from dashing out into the street (or a kid if you're talking about parenting), especially through training with positive reinforcement (rather than always using physical force, via a leash or for a kid maybe grabbing them before they run out) and, say, conservatives' classic "what about the children" rhetoric. And even if you're with a friend, you might put your arm out or grab their arm if they start to walk into the street and didn't see the car you did. I think most of the time it's easy to see where autonomy or safety should be prioritized, particularly when you can't communicate a need to an animals or to a child yet. Going to the doctor/vet would be one example. As Andrewism said, you're not somehow asserting dominance over or creating a hierarchy by tackling someone out of the way of a bus.
@andrewbowen2837
@andrewbowen2837 2 жыл бұрын
@@FoxyFemBoi unless, of course, that person wanted to get hit. Then by tackling them, you have removed their autonomy. Either way, by preventing such an action, you impede on freedom. If the child wants to stick their finger on a hot stove, let them; they won't do it again. Alexis de Tocqueville spends many a page discussing a democratic and free approach to society, versus a more authoritarian but quickly built society, i.e. telling or ordering people instead of letting them find out through experience. Though it may prove more dangerous and take a longer time to develop for the former, it always is ultimately the better approach. That being said, this doesn't mean I want to let a child unknowingly kill themselves. Rousseau provides a good example of how to do this in Emile
@FoxyFemBoi
@FoxyFemBoi 2 жыл бұрын
@@andrewbowen2837 Being suicidal already means your autonomy has been removed by something else, usually depression, at least within that specific frame. I've been suicidal and depressed, that is NOT a good example of personal autonomy. And there's a reason most people are glad their suicide attempts failed. Given what we know about mental health, it still seems like the best option, and as Andrewism said, after the "tackling to safety" example, power and hierarchy are systemic relationships. (Of course the problem with lack of autonomy/information etc, in mental health facilities is a whole other topic, but imo reflective of how we strip autonomy in most institutions) Sure, letting a kid (or an animal) learn by getting hurt can be beneficial, especially if they want to do said thing after being told it will hurt. But there's obviously going to be a gradient there in terms of the level of danger. Especially since you should communicate danger as well as you can so a child can choose for themselves not to do the dangerous thing. Choosing to listen to someone's safety advice if they're an expert, say, if you're learning about rock climbing, or hiking in bear country, does not automatically instill a hierarchy, as Andrewism noted about "competence". It's choosing to follow the instructions of someone who knows more than you in the given situation, so that you can learn without hurting or possibly killing yourself. Schools obviously are going to be a bad example because of how non democratic the learning is or being able to choose what to learn, but even being required, say, to go through safety training before you're allowed to engage in some potentially dangerous activity, or, for example, getting a driver's license, does not automatically make that hierarchical, especially if those things were decided by the community to keep you from harming yourself or others unintentionally. Doing something unintentional is NOT autonomous, it removes your autonomy to not have the best available information about something before doing it. And at a certain age, or with animals, it can be difficult to communicate that information, at least directly through language. And similarly, some mental health conditions can remove some degree of autonomy, so sometimes intervention is necessary--sometimes those same people will willingly go to therapy or ask for/make a safety plan with a provider so they're less likely to self harm or attempt suicide either beforehand or after an attempt. So when they're in more sound mind they can make a plan to help them reach out when needed. I have made a safety plan before -- it's not somehow removing my autonomy, even if I'd rather not do the plan in the moment, that's not based on my overarching desires or on my rational thinking. You seem to be falling for the slippery slope fallacy, in terms of this idea of freedom or autonomy somehow ever being impeded on being a bad thing when in these examples, they are often not an example of autonomous action. Would you reject a community voted mandate for vaccination, but some individuals are against vaccination, needing to be vaccinated anyway? So as to achieve herd immunity through vaccination? That WOULD impede on "individual" autonomy in favor of the community's autonomy and safety. Do you just reject all mental healthcare and science in terms of how suicide actually functions? Because there are examples of medical or mental health abuse in our current systems built on and around capital, you think these should not be used at all? Presumably there would be more recourse for action in a freer anarchist or anarcho communist type society. Regardless, I don't think these things are somehow logically incompatible -- most anarchists agree any actions that don't harm others are acceptable. Some include others or yourself, depending on the action ofc. But really I think communication is a key component of this.
@justinsanchez6626
@justinsanchez6626 2 жыл бұрын
I wish I could like this more than once
@AmanirenaII
@AmanirenaII 2 жыл бұрын
All power to ALL the people!!!
@Ca-yr2rz
@Ca-yr2rz Жыл бұрын
Such a clear explanationn
@Illstatefishing
@Illstatefishing 2 жыл бұрын
Feel so refreshed with revolution after watching your videos!!
@tenrings8150
@tenrings8150 2 жыл бұрын
looks i've been an anarchist for some time without knowing lol
@otherperson
@otherperson 2 жыл бұрын
Welcome 🙌 check out more videos here, as well as the channel Anark and Zoe Baker, also Renegade Cut for more digestible work
@ItHadToBeSaid
@ItHadToBeSaid 2 жыл бұрын
A lot of people are.
@ravendeadeye
@ravendeadeye 2 жыл бұрын
I'm curious about the teacher-student relationship and the organization of militias and other armed forces, like having a squad captain. Or things like the crew of a sailing ship or a spacecraft? Can anyone elaborate on these please? I'm trying to learn. What do anarchist approaches to the classroom, battlefield, bridge, or cockpit look like?
@jennanderson1772
@jennanderson1772 2 жыл бұрын
I love when a video puts into words things I've been thinking better than I ever could. Thanks for this and all your other videos!
@Dewstend
@Dewstend 7 ай бұрын
All power to all the people!
@davidbouchard2499
@davidbouchard2499 2 жыл бұрын
How do we prevent autoritarian people to take power and impose hierarchies? This is a serious question, I would really try to find an anarchist way to prevent the seizing of power by antisocial people.
@otherperson
@otherperson 2 жыл бұрын
You should look around the comments since this has been addressed elsewhere. That being said, the suuuuuuuuuuuuper truncated answer is that within an anarchist society there is no institutional power--no systems of domination--to be siezed. A person would not only have to build a base of support, but would also have to build the very institutions through which they can execute authority, and they'd have to do it under the nose of a highly entangled community. Then to do it at scale, they'd have to reproduce their authority across a decentralized municipalities, essentially starting from the ground every time. I suppose the right person might be able to do it with enough time and reaources, but certainly this is a lot harder than simply kissing the right asses or starting a coup. You'd be very hard pressed to reproduce the usual authoritarian means of siezing power. The federated, community-oriented structure of an anarchist society is built around resisting such attempts at power grabbing.
@davidbouchard2499
@davidbouchard2499 2 жыл бұрын
@@otherperson thanks for the answer! Because I always fear that fascists would just come and level anarchist communities like they did in Spain.
@otherperson
@otherperson 2 жыл бұрын
@@davidbouchard2499 Spain is complicated, and a lot contributed to the defeat of the anarchists, including other communists. But I think it's a different question to ask how to stop fascists from without than asking how to stop would-be dictators from within. Federated militias and community defense and mutual aid (obviously once again super truncated response here) would be the response to the former.
@davidbouchard2499
@davidbouchard2499 2 жыл бұрын
@@otherperson yeah they are different questions but fascists always have a dictator and wanna be dictators always begin by using militias to do acts of terrorism and seizing power. Thanks for your answer. I am not at all trying to discredit anarchism because I am an anarchist myself. I just try to find solutions to what I can imagine as problems that would happen in an anarchist society.
@thefrostbee4182
@thefrostbee4182 2 жыл бұрын
I feel like i understand anarchism enough to know that i believe it works, but i dont understand it enough to know how to argue every point made against it. I still fail to give anarchist answers to how an anarchist society/region would defend itself against a major world threat like a hostile nation. Still though, its incredible and beautiful to get to learn about it, as it feels like almost every anarchist creator or writer i learn from helps make education feel spiritually fulfilling! I deeply appreciate these videos
@Andrewism
@Andrewism 2 жыл бұрын
I think the Anarchist FAQ is an excellent resource in this regard: anarchy.works/ I'm glad you appreciate the videos.
@TimoDcTheLikelyLad
@TimoDcTheLikelyLad 2 жыл бұрын
100% agree -love your channel.
@kalpic11
@kalpic11 Жыл бұрын
Your channel is so inspiring!!
@Thaelyn1312
@Thaelyn1312 Жыл бұрын
That ending got me, ahh. Any time comrades talk about what the world would be like free of hierarchies, I get Big Emotions. But yes, fully agree here. I very much look for safer spaces, & the safest ones I have found are anarchist spaces (note: *safer*, not completely safe). Most people in my communities seem to understand this, & I'm grateful for them.
@quink4334
@quink4334 2 жыл бұрын
engagement! Great video yet again 👏
@elfrangofrito
@elfrangofrito 9 ай бұрын
I do not identify as an anarchist, or left-wing, or anti-capitalist. I was recommended one of your videos and I clicked on this one because to me it looked like an opportunity to challenge one of my fundamental opinions that make me not hate capitalism. This video wasn't made for me. To me it comes across like you're arguing with people that already sympathize with anarchism, because you just say a lot of your opinions on hierarchies without explaining WHY you believe in these things. This video should be called "The Problem With Objections to Anti-Hierarchy", because I did not see any proper explanation as to why hierarchies are inherently bad. You just said that you don't believe in unjustified hierarchies and then tackled some common objections. And it's all a massive disappointment because the thumbnail really grabbed my attention with the sentence "no justified hierarchies". That was something I was looking forward to see you elaborate on, and I got nothing. Edit: I'm watching the video again just to make sure I'm not going insane, and your definition of hierarchies to me comes across as to not consider jobs a hierarchy. I recall Thought Slime trying to argue why jobs are a coercive hierarchy, so I know that opinion exists. But in your video, you don't address jobs at all, so I'm just left wondering what's your opinion on the idea of a hierarchy you could theoretically quit at any time if you wish.
@FigureOnAStick
@FigureOnAStick 2 жыл бұрын
I would disagree on one point , that authority is merely a social construct. If only it were that easy. A common critique of anarchism is that hierarchy is inevitable, because it is human nature. Referring to one of our closest relatives, chimpanzees, along with countless other social species, we can see that the constant striving for authority is not just our own burden to bear. Power grants authority exclusive access to a prosperous future, while providing some semblance of stability and security for the followers. Hierarchy is not ideal, but it is usually a good enough solution to the urgent problem of warring factions that arise in a power vacuum, which not only are a threat in of themselves, but disrupt the wider group's cohesion, leaving them vulnerable to predation, resource scarcity and damaged health from prolonged acute stress. When you hear dismissals of anarchism as a viable concept, this is what is feared. Such a view would be compelling, if it was not committing the naturalistic fallacy. Hierarchy *is* a part of human nature, but that doesn't mean we have to just live with it. As Graeber pointed out, all human sociability is based on primitive communism, and this too is as an intrinsic trait of human beings, albeit much younger than hierarchy. We are perfectly capable of living without hierarchy, because many of us do so every day with family, friends, neighbors, colleagues and comrades. We also have the inborn capacity to structure our relationships through mutual agreement, rather than domination. If anyone suggests that hierarchy is natural, they are right. If anyone suggests that we must be hierarchical because it is natural, they have either surrendered their will to a tyrant, or they wish to become a tyrant. Hierarchy is famine. It is disease. It is war. It is a force of nature and it is one we mush seek to banish from humanity, and it would be wise to suspect the motives of anyone who would suggest otherwise. The recognition of the naturality of hierarchy makes the job of anarchists both harder, and easier. Harder because a natural force is much harder to dispel than a mere social construct. Easier, because recognizing the problem for what the problem truly is: an affect common to all animals, the sense of power. Authority is the feeling of whether you could beat someone in a fight, physical or social, who is dominant, and who submits. Weirdly, I feel like the BDSM community would be a great ally in this respect, being so practiced as they are in using this emotion consensually and for mutual benefit. Another thing anarchists can do is sensitizing themselves to power dynamics in as many different contexts as possible. Anarchists can then use that sense to gather knowledge about how power dynamics play out, and use that knowledge to develop consent-based organizations that are more resilient to unwanted interference.
@Jimbot256
@Jimbot256 2 жыл бұрын
Love the video. I don't know a whole lot of anything (learning is an ongoing process) but I always want to tear my hair out when I hear the ol' "human nature" argument against anarchism and free association society. For starters, it's an incredibly cynical look at humanity as a whole and ignores the material conditions in which people are growing up in. Children aren't born selfish and bigoted - society can shape them into such things. Secondly, as you say, then anarchism is the ideal society for such a species. If people are such monsters then having a society which elevates them is no good for anyone. It's ironic that authoritarian folks use that argument because they talk about humanity as if they're not part of it and see themselves above all of us. They believe themselves our masters. They're exactly the kind of people we don't want in positions of power.
@millykendrill5301
@millykendrill5301 2 жыл бұрын
The problem has always been Cnristianity and cishet whlte normalization. You kiII those things and you get a .better world. Look at any non-European country to get an idea of what a better. world could be for the west.
@krunkle5136
@krunkle5136 2 жыл бұрын
People tend to stick with what they know because challenging it is taxing on the individual. People just want to do art, engineering, learning about the world, etc, and constantly questioning power structures doesn't help that goal.
@NextPlayAdventure
@NextPlayAdventure 2 жыл бұрын
yea so knew some of that was a response to Engels before u namedropped him hehe 🖤🖤
@markdpricemusic1574
@markdpricemusic1574 Жыл бұрын
Superb - admirably lucid presentation.... many thanks for this.
@vividdaydream1516
@vividdaydream1516 2 жыл бұрын
I have some questions about anarchy: in an anarchist society, are there any laws or common rules that people agree on? If someone does another person harm, or is _accused_ of harming another person, how is that handled? What does an interaction with an anarchist justice system look like, both for genuine evildoers and the wrongfully accused?
@sh-ku5xr
@sh-ku5xr 2 жыл бұрын
seems to me people could still form laws through assenting to a social contract in exchange for a place in a community. id assume exile would be the default judgment for a serious breach.
@otherperson
@otherperson 2 жыл бұрын
Disagree highly with the previous reply tbh, though I've heard the exile discourse before. Any laws within an anarchist society would probably be fairly local, and would probably function more as advisements than solid rules of social behavior. You probably wouldn't be surprised to hear this but for most of human history, there were no "don't murder" laws keeping people from murdering each other. Most guidances and rules would be agreed upon by a given community, via a decision making process based on consensus or consent. Things such as the times of day that certain things operate, or the method of distribution for a certain good, would be decided beforehand by the community, or by a federation of such communities, or by the operators of a given mechanism themselves. Some people envision "social contracts," in an anarchist society, and perhaps in some contexts they might exist, but I don't see how one would keep them and who would decide what is a breach of contract etc. to me, an anarchist society would look at anti-social behaviors and ask how those things can be mitigated in the first place, and given that crime is often caused either by poverty/need, profit, or a desire to dominate, certain mitigating factors are baked into anarchist ideology from the start. I'm not super familiar with anarchist criminology, but certainly there would exist the concepts of restorative and transformative justice, which would be employed at the discretion of the harmed party. If exile does exist, I can only imagine it as exile into some sort of intentional community built around rehabilitation, wherein the person who's commited a crime will have access to communal decision making and craft employment. There would likely still be investigators, perhaps a federation thereof who operate across a given region who investigate claims at the behest of the accused (or the accuser or the community). Not sure what that process would really look like, but I havent spent any time really stufying the subject. It might be useful to see how the Zapatistas deal with crime and justice. But there are some books on the subject of anarchist criminology (which I have not read).
@FoxyFemBoi
@FoxyFemBoi 2 жыл бұрын
For this, I would recommend looking at Thoughtslime's channel on the subject. I don't know for sure if they still have the video up, but basically anything you read on police or prison abolition often dovetails nicely with anarchist thought on the justice system, particularly in terms of it being about *helping* people--i.e. reform and restorative justice, rather than about retribution or punishment. The goal would be to solve conflicts among individuals, and, when necessary, correct "anti-social" or harmful behavior through rehab centers, therapy, etc. Laws are pretty easy (at least in terms of how they're formed, not easy to make or interpret haha)--most anarchists are in favor of some form of direct democracy (though that can take many forms of course, from frequent populace votes to small council communism and forming federations), and in smaller cases there might be contracts people or groups write up between each other to agree to (kind of like we do today, but obviously ideally without the kind of power imbalance, say, a boss or landlord has when you're signing a contract w/ them). I haven't actually seen a lot of discussion about what an anarchist "judiciary" might look like, but i think what could be good is being able to vote for a council, possibly of judges, who then in turn select judges based on their credentials/education, etc, while it's within public power to recall a selected judge at any time if they make a bad decision (and to have a different judge or court review that decision). And then ideally have multiple judges rule on cases. I don't particularly care for the way the lawyer system works, as it seems to essentially be a modern day trial by combat but with WORDS and whoever is better at rhetoric can win over the judge or jury. I would consider keeping lawyers, but have them play a smaller role in the court system, while judges could also directly ask questions of witnesses, investigators, etc, so the aim truly was the truth of the matter, and then, following that, the most just and empathetic course of action to right the wrong, in which the victim(s) and wrongdoer would be directly involved in voicing their opinions/desires/etc. The jury system most likely wouldn't exist, as it's essentially 12 strangers with no background in law deciding someone's fate??? (However the way the jury system works can be useful if you want to do small council rotating representation without political campaigns) Anyway this is just the musings of one anarchist haha SO take it with a heap of salt, but anarchists do tend to be prison and police abolitionists so focusing on things like reforming "criminals" and restorative justice that helps the victims are often commonalities for us.
@Birbface
@Birbface 2 жыл бұрын
Anarchism doesn't say how it would be handled, it merely suggests ways in which you can decision-make. You can then apply that technique to this problem, that problem, or other problems. And if a problem is too big to be addressed by that method, you are free to develop an improved or broader method with your peers. I know for most people that's not very satisfactory, but most anarchist philosophy emphasises how you can free to develop a method that works in a particular context, it doesn't prescribe the rules you should follow, because that philosophy was not privy to your current context. If we talk about how the bankers were let off the hook after the financial crash, most people would say the existing system did not deal with them effectively. Well in an analogue of that situation under anarchy, you might be able to resolve it to greater satisfaction and not have to rely on an entrenched, immovable, unsympathetic system biased towards the people bringing the claims.
@introprospector
@introprospector 2 жыл бұрын
Restorative justice
@a_d_a_m
@a_d_a_m 2 жыл бұрын
Hierarchy itself is inescapable. Heirachies form organically in all realms of existence (not only society, but also in the biosphere and physiosphere, and even in one’s own psyche.) So forgive me if this is just semantics, but I would like to add that what it seems you are really talking about is a certain kind of hierarchy only; what some call the “dominator hierarchy” or “pathological hierarchy”. This can and should indeed be dealt with, but I would just suggest we don’t create misconceptions and misrepresentation that the goal is the impossible task of abolishing all hierarchies. The idea itself is misguided; some hierarchies are actually healthy, helpful, and good, such as mutually beneficial ones in the natural world that have evolved on their own, and hierarchical organizations of people that can and do function well without any need for domination (a mentor, mentee relationship for instance). Also, it’s a bit of a paradox to claim to be able to abolish hierarchy, because in doing so, you’d inevitably have to force a paradigm on others and declare it to be superior to theirs, aka, create a hierarchy. So yeah, end dominator hierarchies, absolutely. But hierarchy itself is not the enemy here. A healthy and sustainable hierarchy recognizes the equal importance and interdependence of all elements at all levels, and works for the mutual thriving of each element involved. There is no problem with that kind of system, and to attempt to dismantle it simply on the principle that “it’s a hierarchy” is needlessly destructive.
@aboyade9
@aboyade9 2 жыл бұрын
Well stated
@otherperson
@otherperson 2 жыл бұрын
No anarchist would describe a mutually beneficial interdependence of elements as a hierarchy. That sounds like a complex system. Are you thinking of something like the food web or something like that? That being said, because of this kind of confusion, I usually use the term "hierarchical power structures" to describe what anarchists seek to abolish.
@NinjaLobsterStudios
@NinjaLobsterStudios 2 жыл бұрын
@@otherperson I agree. Building off of the OP, I wouldn't really call the mentor-mentee relationship a case of hierarchy in the anarchist sense, because what an anarchist would oppose in that relationship is the mentor using force to compel the mentee to act in certain ways. The mentee recognizes the knowledge of the mentor, and listens to them not because they are forced to, but because that's how they learn and improve at their craft. This is cooperation. Thus the term "hierarchy" as a ranking of proficiency isn't going to disappear. However, if one clarifies why the anarchist opposes "hierarchy", it's going to come down to coercive authority. Compare the difference between your mentor asking you to do something versus a police officer asking you to do something.
@otherperson
@otherperson 2 жыл бұрын
@@NinjaLobsterStudios i'd say that within the mentor-mentee relationship, there is room for coercive authority and a hierarchical power structure, but I don't think it's a necessary component to mentor-mentee relationships, so yeah I agree
@roshanlackhan110
@roshanlackhan110 2 жыл бұрын
Hey, I just found your channel, its nice to see a fellow trini making well verse video essays, keep up the great work.
@grimtapestry5585
@grimtapestry5585 11 ай бұрын
Is merit not hierarchical? If you're talking about it as a political system yes, but the concept permeates all levels of reality. The very real non-socialy constructed procces of natural selection that gave you the capacity to concieve the idea that hierarchies are intrinsically wrong is itself predicated on a hierarchy of genetic fitness.
@skunkboarder
@skunkboarder Жыл бұрын
Never saw it that way before, but hierarchy is such a pervasive fundament of STEM science. The work relations in STEM science are definitely oppressive. Postgrads work more than 10 hours a day, even 12 hours/7 days (obviously underpaid, or with a meager grant) when the experiment requires this attention. While the professor or ‘lead’ researcher gets (almost) all the credit for any discovery (gets invited to conferences to talk about ‘their’ work). Nice to see unionizing efforts in academia recently.
@theredknight9314
@theredknight9314 Жыл бұрын
Bruh.
@Nai-qk4vp
@Nai-qk4vp 4 ай бұрын
​@@theredknight9314What?
@onlynormalperson
@onlynormalperson 2 жыл бұрын
It's funny that after years of bread tube one of the best vids laying out what anarchism is finally arrives! (And hopefully undoes some of breadtubes damage)
@davidetrimigliozzi3091
@davidetrimigliozzi3091 9 ай бұрын
A video about anarchic parenting would be interesting + what are your sources to say that the Mbuti and Hazda practice it?
@Andrewism
@Andrewism 9 ай бұрын
I have a video on anarchic parenting. Sources are in that video's description.
@davidetrimigliozzi3091
@davidetrimigliozzi3091 9 ай бұрын
​@@Andrewismthankyou for the clarification
@freddy4603
@freddy4603 2 жыл бұрын
Hmm, all of this is true! But I still have a point I feel I need to make: I live in Ukraine, and right now, it is actually conceviable to create a cooperative organisation built on resisting Russian dominance without needing to use potentially oppressive hierarchies and force. Although to organise the undertaking of creating a military without also creating a strict meritocratic hierarchy is something completely out of our ability, as we simply don`t know how to and don`t even have any examples to use. That is not the only problem. Sadly, there are people in our country that can be bribed to go scout out our positions for the enemy to bomb. There is no conceviable way to create a practical system that would deal with those people without using a hierarchy, force and oppression. Those people must be oppressed for the good on the nation, because they are criminals. The lesson I get from history isn't a nice one, and your video, as true as it is, did not tackle this: Anarchy always falls apart the same way, with a competent, organised invader. It is simply too susceptible to divide and conquer principles for it to succeed in reality. Btw, if people are naturally self-serving and selfish, doesn't that mean people in an anarchist society would just try to find a way to dominate everyone else through whatever means they can use? I see anarchists describe their ideal societies as places where people negotiate and organise everything without the use of coersion, but to me thats just as naive as a communist describing his ideal society where government cares for everybody. In both of these scenartios in the real world many people would look for ways to dominate and control each other.
@krunkle5136
@krunkle5136 2 жыл бұрын
Anarchism is a project of privileged people that haven't confronted real world problems yet, most of the time. Without meritocratic hierarchies that reward skill and experience, complex problems requiring multiple people can't be solved.
@freddy4603
@freddy4603 2 жыл бұрын
@@krunkle5136 believe it or not my homeland is home to one of the very few legitimate attempts at an anarchist system. Iirc During the chaos after the Russian Empire collapsed some dudes tried to establish their anarchist utopia. Of course, in practice it was a hierarchical government, but at least the de facto leader made sure to kill and surpress anyone pushing for anticemitism.
@krunkle5136
@krunkle5136 2 жыл бұрын
@@freddy4603 I found an article on it, I'm assuming it's the Махновщина. Pretty interesting, I'll read up on it.
@dansmoothback9644
@dansmoothback9644 2 жыл бұрын
Great vid as always! Hard to grasp some of these concepts on their own, but growing up in various social hierarchies - most of the time being somewhere near the bottom - makes it really difficult to imagine oneself free of hierarchies in general. A lot of your vids do a good job of bridging that gap in a non-authoritative way. Peace friend!
@millykendrill5301
@millykendrill5301 2 жыл бұрын
The issue has always been Christianity and whlte .people. You have some invisibly sky-daddy throwing lightning bolts and sitting on clouds as 'God', then you have cishef white men as the 'head of the family', then you have the white women, then below them, you have children, POCs, LGBTQ people, Muslims, etc. You get rid of the Christian God and cishet white .men = true equality.
@TheMojoGang
@TheMojoGang 2 жыл бұрын
Im new to anarchism but is anyone able to help me understand why all hierarchies are "bad"? I understand that the abuse of power is bad but am a bit confused about how the concept of hierarchy is inherently flawed and must be changed. While I think the relationship between employee and employer should be changed, I come to that conclusion due to the materialist analysis of antagonism between the classes, and not at least from my understanding of anarchism now to be an absolutist belief based on arguments of morality. Also slightly unrelated but I am curious of what an anarchist "society" would look like free from hierarchy. Currently and historically (maybe aside from hunter and gathers) some levels of hierarchy have been used in society. If it be the hierarchy for a group of people or an institution to create laws to the hierarchy to collect taxes. How does an anarchist "society" address these issues? Specifically what gives a commune or other structure of organization the authority to make a law, enforce a law, make/enforce regulations, tax, etc... No one will voluntarily go to jail, making the act of enforcing laws nonconsensual. How is this remedied? (are hierarchies ok in this scenario or is there something else?) Again just some things I have been curious about. :)
@Lincoln_Bio
@Lincoln_Bio 2 жыл бұрын
Power is inherently abusive. Society would basically look the same, we'd just organize it based on cooperation rather than serving the needs of a powerful few. The authority to make and enforce laws comes from the people, it's true democracy. It's still a society, there's still consequences for your actions, it's just that we're not forced into submission by people who think they're better than us in order to live a normal life.
@KingPiccolOwned
@KingPiccolOwned Жыл бұрын
@@Lincoln_Bio Why is power inherently abusive? Also what you've described is Socialism not Anarchism. You also haven't explained how you are going to get people who currently hold power to relinquish it without exercising authority over them.
@mariahterry8812
@mariahterry8812 2 жыл бұрын
Oooh~ I've been waiting on a new video! Thanks Andrew!
@CaedmonOS
@CaedmonOS Жыл бұрын
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - for ever.
@nathanaeltrimm2720
@nathanaeltrimm2720 Жыл бұрын
Hierarchies of competence are completely justified
@briankovacevich9268
@briankovacevich9268 2 жыл бұрын
Good shit. Thank you.
@wen6519
@wen6519 2 жыл бұрын
Anarchist parents might be a ray of hope in these dark dark times
@LiquidDemocracyNH
@LiquidDemocracyNH 2 жыл бұрын
I'm very glad you mentioned this, Noam Chomsky constantly says parents are justly in charge of their children which is a bummer since he's written reviews for so many Alfie Kohn books
@BosmangBeratna
@BosmangBeratna Жыл бұрын
I love this. ❤
@mtchd0rv9313
@mtchd0rv9313 2 жыл бұрын
how do you learn about this stuff I would like to know so I can dive into this a bit more
@Andrewism
@Andrewism 2 жыл бұрын
theanarchistlibrary and anarchist FAQ have a lot of great resources on these sorts of topics! outside of anarchist lit, I just read what I can about the subjects that intrigue me
@mrrafsk
@mrrafsk 2 жыл бұрын
The choice of artwork really helps the essay for me. Wish I could recognise all of them
@ictogon
@ictogon 2 жыл бұрын
lmao i saw this on recommended on my phone, and then searched 'heirachy' on my laptop to find it again. The first video I see is 'Why heirarchies are necessary' by Jordan Peterson
@MarkTAllenby
@MarkTAllenby 2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for the work you put in to these videos.
@mobilemollusc615
@mobilemollusc615 2 жыл бұрын
Great video, I am relatively new to your channel and I have know other knowledge of anarchy. I don't yet say I agree with your point but I am. Begining to understand them What did you mean by "effective" at 5:23? Is that what you belive or from the perspective of the person you where disputing moments before?
@otherperson
@otherperson 2 жыл бұрын
That is what he believes contextually. Idk if Engels talked about work to rule practices. But work to rule practices areee indeed effective forms of protest
@gabrielhermel6932
@gabrielhermel6932 2 жыл бұрын
Best intro to anarchy video I've yet seen.
@arnabchakraborty1729
@arnabchakraborty1729 Жыл бұрын
How would conflict resolution happen in such a society?
@xryxix
@xryxix 2 жыл бұрын
Yeah enabling one enables many. No one's above anyone. I hope things get easier and nicer. 🍀🍀🍀
@kai6377
@kai6377 2 жыл бұрын
Short, to the point, and still so very well explained!
@kisislenain
@kisislenain Жыл бұрын
Great video
@xarvh
@xarvh 2 жыл бұрын
As a parent, the question of my authority over my child is one I struggle to answer. I have coercive power over him, and "I know what is best for him better than he does". For example, if their underpants are full of poop and explaining and negotiation fails, I might have to forcibly clean him despite his protests. I do try to keep his will into consideration, I listen to his wants and desires, I do my best to talk things with him and see if there is any compromise, but sometimes none of these options work, and I am left only with coercion. I tell myself that mine is a "self-subverting hierarchy", ie if I coerce him is only so that he can become independent from my power over him, and this idea helps but it doesn't satisfy me entirely.
@krunkle5136
@krunkle5136 2 жыл бұрын
Children can't be fully autonomous. You're instilling your worldview and values for them to be a good member of whatever society they choose when they become an adult and are no longer your responsibility.
@ruhankatre
@ruhankatre 2 жыл бұрын
I agree with this video just wished you could have explained some of chomskys bad positions to illustrate your point about his lack of knowledge on the subject I personally don't know much of his problems specifically and it would have been cool to see.
@dontnoable
@dontnoable 2 жыл бұрын
Same actually!
@nicholasduncan1594
@nicholasduncan1594 2 жыл бұрын
Thank you! You've articulated something I've struggled with before. Much appreciated!
@PattyOflan88
@PattyOflan88 Жыл бұрын
Funny people that oppose hierarchy, are always people that could never strive to be at the top of one, even a local one.
@memoryalphamale
@memoryalphamale Жыл бұрын
Great essay. Keep on comrades:)
@violetchristophe
@violetchristophe Жыл бұрын
Funny enough, I was just having this kind of conversation with a coworker, about how automation might mean less jobs for people. This would then require economic systems to change, as less and less people do jobs for wages. The question then became, what will folks do with all their jobless free time. We agreed people need purpose, in the form of some activities that give them fulfillment. We discussed how covid lockdowns demonstrated that, and he suggested that it's just human nature to not want to do anything, even if humans need to doing something to feel fulfilled. He gave the example of how Rome fell, and how the folks there had all their needs taken care of, so they could indulge in every debauchery they wished and became incompetent to care for their society. I suggested that maybe education would help. Not rote learning, mathematics, and test prep like we have today in primary schooling. Instead, encouraging the methods of critical thinking, introspection, and research that seems to be more of what I hear college graduates come away with. The networking and community building to work with others, and figure out what one's drive in life might be, so we avoid complacency and laziness that comes from not knowing what we really want to do and find fulfillment in.
@saturationstation1446
@saturationstation1446 2 жыл бұрын
i believe in one hierarchy. and that is - workers are always above the management / ruling class
@hals6118
@hals6118 2 жыл бұрын
so the dictatorship of the proletariat. i have this cool thing to tell you about called marxism
@zacdelos
@zacdelos 2 жыл бұрын
​@@hals6118 marxism > anarchism everytime
@flippydaflip5310
@flippydaflip5310 2 жыл бұрын
@@zacdelos Lol! Anarchists have never willingly handed their projects over to capitalists... the same cannot be said of tankies.
@zacdelos
@zacdelos 2 жыл бұрын
@@flippydaflip5310 opportunism, revisionism, and ultimately, capitalist restoration did occur in the USSR, the PRC, and Albania. I wont argue that the bourgeois won out in the end. What the anarchists cannot claim is that their revolutionary preservation has historically been successful, in that they survived internal and external contradictions long enough to construct a plan of action in a civil war (ex. Makhonovshchina), a defense against imperialism and invasion (ex. KPAM), and the construction of socialism via affinity groups (ex. CNT-FAI in anarchist catalonia).
@flippydaflip5310
@flippydaflip5310 2 жыл бұрын
@@zacdelos It's easy to claim "success" when the bar has been set so low it's essentially scraping the bottom... after all, neither the PRC, the USSR, or any other dictatorship purporting to be "socialist" ever bothered to make even a passing attempt at actual socialism, did they? The anarchists may have failed at many things... but at least they did not fail because they compromised their revolution to satisfy the egocentrism of a party elite.
@tahninikitins6577
@tahninikitins6577 2 жыл бұрын
I so wish I'd seen your videos a year ago 😅 the way you so concisely and pointedly get this info across would certainly have helped me formulate my own augments back then but I'm glad to be getting this learning in now
@HeyJuuude-05
@HeyJuuude-05 2 жыл бұрын
A Competence hierarchy is the purest form of hierarchy.
@thelawfus
@thelawfus 2 жыл бұрын
The whole point of anarchy is that each individual gets to make their own determination about which hierarchy to which they will submit (and that could be none). (Comment on the remark at 2:50)
@otherperson
@otherperson 2 жыл бұрын
Hierarchical power structures presuppose the ability to maintain that structure through force. If it is optional, it is not a hierarchy. It's just a kink lol
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