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Bigger problem with this game balance is taunt button restoring special meter. Basically all 4-6 players games degrade into constant supers with rotation , you can't see shit on the screen , but it works

I love Shredder's Revenge probably more than it deserves but I agree with you on the throws.

It’s annoying when it grabs and I don’t want it to grab, or when it grabs and I just fkn stand there and the buttons seem to not work. There should’ve been a dedicated grab button man.

Idk if it's a good solution or not but i think you should be able to throw any enemies and throws should have s but the fling toss should cost the super bar to use, like half of a bar or something so you can't just spam it

You're really tumbling town this Shredder's Revenge rabbit hole, and it's great to see.

I played a lot of TMNT - Turtles in Time and Hyperstone Heist and i can say the throws were indeed overpowerd. Fling toss to insta-kill and get 3 points and fling slam to do crowd control, insta-kill and get 2 points. I can understand why they nerfed them, but was shocked to see how bad they had become. The slide in those games was also overpowerd but a lot harder to pull off.

Fling toss can be solved with some rng - letting high tier enemies jump out of it safely sometimes. Capcom's arcade Punisher has enemies that soft land when thrown sometimes and it works fairly well.

It's not a difficult issue to understand. In every beat-em up, going as far back as Double Dragon, throws were invincible and treated as the default defensive option. When Final Fight included the Super attack, throws were still the go-to option because they didn't drain your HP. When Streets of Rage 3 included an ability to Super attack at no HP cost (the meter), throws were still the go-to option because they were consistently available. Every game since then has respected that rule because in a genre where you're constantly outnumbered, having a means of "safely" moving enemies around without the risk of immediate damage is important. Yet Tribute decided to ignore all of that in favor of a tool that effectively ruins the original purpose. Throwing will make you take damage anyway, sometimes even more than just getting hit outright because you lose access to rolling away. No matter what reason the devs give, it is obvious they purposely neutered throws in order to give their Dodge Roll mechanic all the spotlight. But it's also clear that they didn't properly test or consider how both options could interact; they just killed one off in favor of the other. And it's not just throw invincibility, you can tell the devs actively killed the option because throws also deal very little damage. Even the iconic triple slam from Turtles in Time cannot kill basic 4 HP mooks (because it does literally 3 HP of damage), and the crowd control throw is a joke. Not to mention that you can't even grab enemies with more than 4 HP, so the risk of throwing armored enemies instead of dealing with their gimmick isn't even an issue. They need to change this immediately, it actively harms their own game play balance. Especially when you consider fights like Chrome Dome, where Fling Toss is the worst possible option given all the damage flying around.

You are completely right. The very first time I noticed foot soldiers were hitting me WHILE I did my good ol' slam throw when surrounded, my heart broke a little bit. The game is still very cool and lots of fun! But indeed it doesn't feel as nuanced as SNES tmnt4, Final Fight or Steets of Rage. Oh and your voice sounds like a radio voice, that's pretty awesome lol.

No i-frames on throws feels jank. I can't name a single beat em up where it doesn't have i-frames. It's an obvious problem the moment you get to Chromdome or playing on Hard.

I had really high expectations since SoR 4 is so good. I think that not having the depth was a let down. I enjoyed the nostalgia and appreciate the effort put into taking me there. I did 2 playthroughs and liked my time with it. The nostalgia glasses are off and unless some more depth gets added I will unlikely play it anytime soon. I'm glad people are enjoying it multiple hours in. My biggest problem is having a pointless combo counter (outside of finishing a co-op missions as the player with the highest combo getting a mention)when points are just kills. If it charges your super faster then taunts wouldn't give you an immediate bar. Throws not having I frames sucks, especially when grabs happen unintentionally more than anything. I didn't try higher difficulties just cause there wasn't an objective. Score feels irrelevant so arcade mode seems empty. I hope the devs do change things or add stuff. Either way I don't regret my purchase, I got my money's worth. Getting hyped and thinking it could be like sor4 was something I shouldn't have done.

Between Streets of Rage 4, Sifu and this, I’m just happy we get a little Beat ‘em Up reinassance. Love all three of them.

The fact that raphael hands out German Suplexs is a win in my book.

The dodge glitch on stage 3 exists on Xbox too. I almost always lose a life against the car because of it

Interesting topic. The karate guys in the white suits can break your grabs in SOR4 also(at least for Cherry). All these ideas are great but, it might be something so core to their design choice the devs might not budge on this. Fingers crossed tho, great video.

Found this out awhile ago, but to do to throws ya gotta press the attack button + the direction you want to actually do it

For me the easiest fix would be having i-frames throughout the entire animation, and if you wanna insta-kill throw, I'd have a window of the animation with a button mashing quick-time event where no i-frames exist, the higher-tier the enemy is the bigger the mashing.

Sharing this with Dotemu and Tribute Games on Twitter ASAP! Great video I don't own TMNT'S SHREDDERS REVENGE Yet but own Belt Action collection and Fighting Collection! Getting TMNT'S Cowabunga Collection and then Shredder's Revenge.

I mean, it's literally how grabs worked in the other TMNT beat em ups

Yeah the throws don’t feel as natural as it could be, but I remember it from Turtles in Time so it’s not that bad. You’ll feel it on the throw boss.

Very well done and said. The back-and-forth throw (not sure of its official name) should be the ultimate defence tool and do high damage (say, 1 per slam), but it's really not worth it.

As much as I love this game, you make a very great point. Honestly, I think a lot of the enemies are too easy to kill. I say make some enemies stronger as far as HP, and give the throws I-frames like you said. Give us a reason to use them. And maybe special meters can control the type and severity of the throws. Or even have certain characters do certain throws. There's many ways to play with this.

Exactly. I try to avoid throwing most of the time due to all of the reasons presented in this video. Would like to see some of these suggestions genuinely implemented.

After stewing on your video for a bit, and watching it like 3 times, I feel like there can be a more dynamic option for Fling than just not being able to use it on higher tier Foot. Each Low-Tier Foot has 4 health points. Make Fling do 4 points of damage upon execution. If the 4 points of damage is not enough to eliminate the Foot, they will screen bounce and land somewhere back into the arena. Otherwise it plays out the same. Great videos man! I will definitely see more of you in the future.

To be fair to the current state of throws, they can help in getting crowds off you because in some cases, a forward throw is faster than a jab when you're about to get attacked. Throwing the enemy into hazards and barrels will trigger them, and you can grab foot soldiers during their wakeup frames so you don't have to wait for them to stand.

I love this game hope they keep updating it

Any opinions on God Hand? If you like highly-technical combat with a high skill ceiling, you're missing out if you haven't tried it.

I'd just have the fling toss when done on an elite enemy or high health enemy just make them fly into the screen it'll leave a tiny crack animation and they bounce off and back into the fight close to where they were having taken significant damage

good analysis. I was doing good woth throws. now i see why

Wow you made a 12 minute video about throws. Amazing.

take a shot whenever Mayo says "Throw"

Perfect reasons why I don't use throws in this game. And great solutions for using throws if implemented in the future. Good job.

Have you played midnight fight Express? it's a new beat him up on game pass.

fling toss could've been a random 25% chance on a down throw, but have a unique weak down grab with setup so team can help combo after..

even river city ransom for the NES had throws too. 😁

it could use the position change SoR to add 3 more grab options and a way to double team enemies. maybe make double team the only way to do a grab on a regular heavy extra heavyweight enemies.

Hey, I just wanna mention that Delta has made the Master Campaign for TAG2. I wonder if you have played it and have something to say about it.

The best solution to this would be a block button that can be a parry system.... Blocking attacks takes reduced damage but does not kill your combo. Timing that block with an enemy attack creates a parry animation that allows counterattacks, give every character their own unique counterattack with different properties... Leo - dash slash that stuns and creates cross up Raph - 1inch punch that knocks back for wall bounce Don - Bow staff launch throw for juggle startup Mikey - Nunchuck combo starter with hit stun to open combo start All parry attacks have different range and properties....etc. Just baffled throws have this lack of use but I think a parry system would open up the combat even more...without the throw problem...this could also allow for more aggressive enemy AI... and a better game. Just my opinion.

Agree on this

Fantastic video

The stage 3/8 dodge-glitch is 100% present in the Switch version, too. I've tested it... and always have to remember to do neutral dodges on those stages, which is annoying. I hope the developers know about it and patch it out.

Damn! I thought it was just me who has issues with grab/throws in Shredder's Revenge. Whenever I accidentally grab someone (you can easily grab someone by getting close to them and tab a d-pad bottom I think) it will just mess up you flow of combos and drain your health especially on Gnarly difficulty.

Has anyone else gotten stuck in the air during attacks?

I'm glad someone has taken note to this. I was hyped for this game and was left somewhat disappointed, i tend play most beat em ups and i always like to delve deep into its fighting system and combos. I'm sorry to say this but this game is kind of busted, make no mistake it's completely OK if you want some casual fun, but if you're thinking on delving deep into its mechanics you're in for a rough time, and to mayo its not only the throws that are an issue its a lot of things the awkward cooldown after each dodge or flips, the uneven move set and strange and weak aerial play.

Invincibility frames should be back for all throws. Fling Toss should be the only one restricted by the tougher Foot Ninjas, the other throws shouldn’t be.

I literally stopped playing because of this throwing issue, hope it gets fixed soon.

I love shredders revenge, I haven’t been into side scrolling beat ‘em ups in a good minute makes me realize how great streets of rage 2 is with its mechanics…especially for the time. I did beat Bare knuckle 3, I have yet to beat part 4 even though I bought the physical on switch close to 2 years ago.

in SOR4 grabs dont save you from bombs tho

They should have high hp enemies bounce off the screen and land in the middle of the map instead of just not being aloud to. Also add I-frames

The developers updated grabs and gave them Invincibility frames so now they are a more viable option in combat 👍. I think Raphael's suplex is the best.

You just want every game be like SOR4! 😎

I could see these changes in maybe a special mode of the game but it feels like the developers wanted it to keep the old school feel. Not sure but I think you could take damage in Turtles in Time the same way. But I agree on how Shredder's Revenge feels now after I started playing Final Vendetta.

ill be honest.. if it wasn't for the kickass music and nostalgia, id have a WAY lesser experience.. As for crowd control, I always jab them and follow it up with a charge attack.. doesn't need to to be fully charged, but this way you can slam them into a group of enemies, dive kick into them during wakeup, or do another charge attack. bigger enemies can be dealt with in a similar way, but instead of a follow up, you can just backdash and fill your super meter, easy peasy ;)

turtles in time throws were the best imo and they need to add that to this game.

I don't like that team up attacks get in the way of your combo as well

Someone please tell me if and when these fixes are implemented. Then I'll play this game again lol.

Its too hard when grabbing an enemy and some enemies are fast enough to hit you

oh my goodness.shocker....viable realistic strategies are key to winning not relying on invisiblityly moments

Everything you said is true. I don’t get why grabbing is an option. My wife and I were very excited for this game to come out but we’re over it.

Don't worry about complicating casual play. Throws suck there too!

maybe they did this to balance out the fact that you can recharge your super bar easily with a taunt?

Yeah, I agree with all of this. Went through gnarly solo today and pretty much every Turtles in Time move is useless and leaves you open for major damage more than anything and your better off spamming your 4 hit standard combo and then roll back to avoid damage to kill enemies. If you’re going to feature all these new abilities that the old games didn’t have then it makes no sense to make only standard jab and roll and supers the only thing worth doing.

Fling toss should cost your power gage

My biggest issue with the throws is that you don't have invincibility frames when you perform them

I am at my wits end trying to get through Technodrome redux on gnarly without using supers. Not only does that level put you into restricted spaces with some of the spammiest enemies in the game, the boss forces you to do fling toss with large groups of enemies surrounding you, the boss attacking you AND missiles to be avoided at the beginning. Waiting for the barrel can be a proper pain. This video completely embodies the one problem I have with this game

The only time I purposely used throws was to unlock the achievement, that and I love Raphaels suplex.🤙 I don’t agree about the I-frames, I like the challenge of executing the throw without getting hit and the benefit is you knockdown multiple enemies at a time. I don’t like the automatic grab and would prefer a button dedicated to grappling, it give you more control over it and I could see myself trying to beat a whole level by just tossing people. I also hate the screen toss, I prefer Judo and wrestling throws and hate when I accidentally do the screen toss.

I like this game but it lack the replayability, sor4 set the bar super high for me

They were op on tmnt 4

While I agree with your analysis, I'm surprised you didn't show what I thought would be the easiest showcase of how throws can be so punishing to use: the Chrome Dome boss battle on Gnarly, since he can take you out in about 4 hits with his punches from the foreground. If you throw at a bad time, you could lose over half your life or even more during your fling toss. It's pretty absurd lol.

"X is fine and you just don't understand the game" describes way too much of the discourse I see with TMNT:SR mechanics discussions. Thanks for continuing to promote the technical side of the discussion. This is a pretty good game, but we know it could be a better game with a bit of balancing and polish on the core fundamentals. Hopefully those points don't get drowned out by the mountains of unconditional praise.

Turtle in Time agarrões também eram ruins, talvez isso seja uma referência aos jogos antigos

I agree but it's not a deal breaker I love this game and streets of rage 4

And why the actual fook did they allow us to grab non-throwable enemies? Like you said, you often grab them by accident and it leads to you taking unnecessary damage 😩 they need to fix that asap it’s such bs

iFrames would be nice. But one thing you forgot is adding iFrames trivializes Chrome Dome boss fight. Best solution is give us higher damage and make it an actual button so you do it in accident. On controller for example there’s 4 buttons that aren’t even being used. So why is the throw just automatic when I get to close. I end up grabbing people when I wanna punch and I have to be close because I play as characters like Raph and Mikey with low range. Just make it an actual command and give higher damage. iFrames would be nice but the fling toss interaction with Chrome Dome would break that fight and the fight is already easy especially for it’s higher level, doesn’t need to be made easier.

again agreed 100% throws are a issue. so is the meter system the taunt spam is killing me.

Picked Rafael day 1 just for his german suplex throw, dropped him same day, I'm sure I woke up my neighbors as i collapsed into systematic shock and sperged throughout my apartment at 2am NO I frames coming out of throws none whatsoever you are sick devs sick in the head!

Did they ever patch the broken taunt? The fact you can just sit in a corner and taunt into super spam the entire game?

they gonna change nothing

I’m also not a fan of a like of different attacked I think it be better if they stole from castle crashers Light. Heavy, “special “

I think the Fling toss should just do a lot of damage instead of instakill and if the enemy has enough health to survive the toss they just "splat" on the screen and return to trying to fight you. Having enemies just break your throw attempts while other ones are immune to throws, utterly kills that mechanic on higher levels of play, and it feels bizarre that they would do this *AFTER* making Streets of Rage 4. Like they had different people design the combat system in each or something.

Nah!!Cant wait for cowabunga collection,nothin compare to the throw in 1989 arcade,its random and throw them on the wall.I've finished the game and some stages are lame.

As someone I feel like understands Fighting game fundamentals a tiny bit Decent it’s really interesting to hear about Beat em up mechanics “I know nothing about them lol” I kinda felt like you was just gonna say “Well I a invisible throw because it’s OD lol” which is fine. But you explain your Views Very well and the more I hear you the more I agree with you. Great Video

Minor correction. Most throws in SOR4 that have invincibility are invincible for the entire animation. Although it seems like you understood that because you mentioned you can special afterwards. Guess the wording was just a bit weird.

Meditation in arcade mode?

I wish the controls on this game was like streets of rage 4 🤦🏾‍♂️

Yeah, throws without I frames sucks

Dude, You have spawn of bots in comments:) lol you're big KZfaqr now

Mayo, could you do a video on Hollow Knight? The multiple implications of the combat are not usually known. Have a great day, I love your videos!

Definitely should have s and give meter

I just use throws because i think it looks cool

Am i the only one that let my friends do all the work well i try my best to avoid the enemy's(fitting that i use Splinter) Personally i think that the stages are a bit samey not much creative scenario's

This is what I was afraid of when I found out tribute games was going to be developing it and dotemu would only assist, Had dotemu Been in charge this wouldn’t have been a problem.

the meditation for me is far most broken,

I don't like the grabs being automatic. Standing there and doing nothing in order to do a grab just feels strange and unnatural. I'd rather be active and push a button or even a combination in order to grab someone. My controller has four shoulder buttons that go unused, surely they could have put a grab onto one of those? The way it's set up now it's like I gotta stop whatever flow I've build up throughout the level just to do a throw. Because of this the only time I ever intentionally went for grabs and throws was when a level had a challenge involving them. If they ever do add in a grab button or combination of buttons leave the option in for the current system, because I'm sure other people like it, and more options are good. Also I played on PC, so I have no idea if this is unique for that version or not, but sometimes when I do a throw it just does the Fling Toss even though I did the input for one of the other kinds of throws. I'm trying to throw limited enemies into pits here, I hate having to restart a level because the game decided I was Fling Tossing everyone. Made even worse by there being no restart option, gotta back out into the menu, then navigate back into the level I wanna complete challenges on. Each thing may not be all that annoying, but they certainly compound into a bigger problem. Also also I don't expect this to be changed since it would take making new sprites, but I find it weird that I can't grab an enemy, and then keep on hitting them while they're grabbed. Maybe that could be an option in a sequel if that ever happens. Edit: Thinking about it now, having throws be mapped to doing nothing feels like a decision that would make more sense in the age of the arcade. Like the devs were told "We can only afford four buttons per player on the machine" but this ain't the arcade days any more.

You should show this vídeo to the developers.

Why. Did throws…. HAVE TO BE GOING UP TO THEM!!! INSTEAD OF A BUTTON PRESS

throws are way too weak in this, especially since you're vulnerable while doing them. The only throw really worth using on higher difficulties is the "fling toss" and that only applies to the enemies that can actually be thrown...

Don't let this distract you by the extreme lack of the most important turtle in this gameplay

I think you are comparing TMNT to SoR a little too much. These are two games with completely different design philosophies. SoR always had a deeper throw mechanic which defined it in the beat'em up genre. The s were given to the dodge instead of the throw so that players weren't demigods with invincibility everywhere. Also, TMNT does not have a dedicated grappler. So throws are in the game as just a way to change up a player's approach. It doesn't sound like you play a lot of fighting games either because throw counters are very prevalent in those (which I find to be refreshing). The changes you seem to be asking for will essentially turn TMNT into SoR. Each game is going to have a different focus and I think they nailed the mechanics so that there is still at least a little bit of challenge.