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It really can't be understated how insidious the false promise of a messiah is to someone who has experienced great suffering. There is nothing more human than the desire for the hardship you have endured to have meaning

To be fair, psychic humans who can see the future, past genetic memories AND survive a known poison only Reverend Mother can survive isn't something widely known and studied until later in the Dune series.

The Fremen forgot the warning given to anyone before drinking the water of life: "If you drink you WILL DIE. If you drink you may see." Paul or Muad'dib died after drinking the water of life. The man they knew prior was dead.

Stilgar is my favorite. He started as faithful but just trying to fight for his people, seeing Paul as a good fighter, Jessica as a reverend mother replacement and using religion to get the others to accept them. Even after Paul rode the largest grandfather worm, he still viewed Paul as a banner his people could unify under, acknowledging that Paul himself didn't believe. Only when Paul survived the water of life and read the minds of the other leaders did he become a zealot, knowing Paul already knew he desired a paradise for his people but choosing to believe Paul could see it regardless. The way Javier Bardem plays him was soo good.

For me, Stilgar always been looking for the real Messiah, and he is the subtle but actual reason why Paul became Lisan al Gaib.

In God Emperor the Museum Fremen are all that are left of the once proud and tough people. Stilgar's tragedy is a small part of the tragedy of his entire people. However, quite early in reading Dune you get a sense of deep time and all peoples being erased and leaving nothing but echoes of the past. It's one of the reasons Dune resonated for me when I read it. Nothing is permanent, everything is lost to entropy.

When Paul showed up reciting everyone's internet browser history to them, it completely overwhelmed them because he had no knowledge that no mortal could or should ever have. That scene is so powerful. If someone in real life could do the same thing and just "know" things, it would make absolutely anyone start to believe.

It is really sad to witness his "downfall" from a wise leader and friend at the beginning, to a fanatic man full with blind faith in the end.

Javiers performance in the film is so magnetic. During the duel between Paul and Feyd, you can see it waver when Paul is stabbed. When Paul is triumphant, the way he utters "lisain al-gaib", it's a man clutching back at his wavered faith.

I DONT CARE WHAT YOU BELIEVE, I BELIEVE!!!

one thing to learn from stilgar is that just because you believe in something even if you're willing to die for it doesn't make it necessarily true

I see quite a bit of Stilgar in Morpheus.

I am so sorry for people think Stilgar is a comedic relief character. They clearly cannot see his tragedy. Thank you for making this video. Truly amazing!

The genius of Bardem's portrayal of Stilgar is the same religious fanaticism that's played for laughs in the first half of the film becomes terrifying in the second half. Stilgar's faith doesn't really change. He never wavers in it and is always looking for a reason to believe because, as he says, "I don't care what you believe! I believe!" For me, that's probably the scariest line of the film. A man who maintains his faith throughout the entire story and, in the end, has it completely rewarded. In another story, Stilgar's might have been seen by the audience as a happy ending yet in Dune we see it with nothing but dread and sadness. All Stilgar was as a Freman got devoured by the religion of the Lisan Al-Gaib. And perhaps the most frightening thing of all with Stilgar is that, especially now, you can find him everywhere. People who have given into blind faith and devotion to a cause or creed or religion or ideology. People who stopped being people the moment the ideology took over them and possessed them like a demon. The scary thing with Stilgar is that people like him aren't just confined to the walls of a church anymore but can be found everywhere. At every political rally, at every protest, on every news program, and in every comments section. And the worst part is that, like Stilgar, they often don't even realize what's happened to them and what they've lost.

One thing the TV miniseries (especially Children of Dune) caught best, even compared to Villeneuve, was the theme of tragedy. The Fremen who lose their ways, the Atreides who got their revenge only to dissolve within a new order, Paul and Leto II who are so mighty yet powerless, the members of countless factions whose game for power becomes irrelevant in the new order, even the mighty worms who go from beings of veneration to studied specimen on the path to almost extinction.

Stilgar is a representation of the people who live through hardships. When you have so much hard time, you need to believe something, or you simply cant go further. I see a lot of real life people cannot cope their hard lifes, so their religions or beliefs become their last lifline. Dune series show me that even 1000 years later, religions will not dissappear. It's simply a cope mechanism but it is sometimes beneficial, sometimes not.

I think the quote from the books (I could be wrong)..... Paul thinking to himself "It was then that I lost a friend, and gained a follower". The scene was done in sadness, as Paul didn't want Stilgar to "convert", but to remain a teacher and inspiration, and mostly: a friend. One of the saddest parts of this fantastic book series.

yeah i was really surprised how quickly stilgar went from what felt like the leader to pauls number one fanboy. he basically stepped down and let paul have the reigns. morpheus was happy to find neo but it still felt like he was the boss of the group and equal to neo.

'You want to make God laugh, tell him your plans'

The museum fremen mocked by Leto 2 were the nail in the coffin for Stilgar imho.

While Paul may not have been a 'true' messiah; did he do wrong by the Fremen? I mean, he DID lead them to freeing their own planet, and then conquering the universe. Most peoples throughout history would be quite happy with a leader that led them to take revenge on their enemies and then become great conquerors.

The tragedy of the fremen going to the holy war at the End of Dune two is the something I have been thinking every time I watched the movie and felt sting my heart. Very well narrated analysis.

I've been waiting on your next video and you did not disappoint. Thank You for another excellent edit

The earnest portrayal from Javier is what elevates the performance from comedic to profound.

Every video, you are getting better. Keep up with your great work!!

My god this is such a great video. I come back to this video for inspiration. Thx ❤❤❤

I love your analysis and in-depth explanation of Stilgar's tragedy in Faith. Thank you for this.

This was a really good video. Thanks for making it.

When he said SPOILER ALERT he absolutely meant it.

Excellent video, the most thoughtful I've seen on a movie I really, really enjoyed. Thank you

3:00 Force is what sticks out in my mind. There are many instances where we see the prophecy 'forced upon' by the actors in this story. Stilgar and Jessica. Jessica and Chani. Even Paul and Gurney. It's really interesting.

This was very well made. I have found it difficult to separate the book from these two incredible movies, particularly how character decisions taken by actors can have surprising knock-on effects to Herbert’s themes. Stilgar being a source of comedic effect was one of them, so I appreciated the “grounding” or reminder of what Herbert thought the character should be as the story progressed. Again, great video.

Excellently articulated ideas 👍🏻

Great Video! Looking forward to more!

I love how stilgar went from friend to follower, all of the qualities of stilgar and Paul has is great. You need someone to help combine people, the reason the fundamentalist didn’t like the rest was bc they weren’t interested in the policy, is crazy how Paul killed the best fighter with ease, I’m going to watch this movie again. I love it, I’ve watched this movie 3x, we need more movies like this tbh

"This is a story they use to enslave us!" Chani She is not diminished. Chani remains Chani.

My favorite scene in dune 2 is Pauls proclamation. Not because of Paul, but because of Javier Bardems Performance! It is the first and most powerful portrayal of true religious fulfilment in cinema! Not of a religious awakening, Stilgar was already a believer before, but true fulfilment and satisfaction of one man's believes! Javier played it perfectly. It made me as an agnostic see the power of faith... Why ordinary people can be pushed to the absolute Limit for their faith. Why it can be both, terrifying and beautyful at the same time.

great video btw, as written!! 🎉

This was a great video!

Hope is an extremely powerful weapon. The greatest mind-control anyone can wield.

Paul struggles with this dilemma for the entirety of the book. He foresees that NO MATTER what he does, the seeds of prophecy will flourish and the jihad will happen. There is a point in the book where he sees that the only way to prevent the jihad would be the immediate death of the entire party right after they meet the fremen for the first time, leaving no survivors to tell tales and let the legend grow.

I found it strange when reading the book that the Fremen both worship the worm and work to its extinction.

Amazing video ! ❤

Great Video The music is great too

Right now fans are making meme about him but in 3rd movie he's really a tragic character

this is the video I wanted to see!!!

Great video again

Started the vid to pass the time and couldn't put it down. Excellent

I very much enjoyed Mr. Bardem channeling Anthony Quinn in this part.

Excellent video essay on Stilgar’s religion fanaticism and how tragic his story is!

This phrase is overused, so forgive me, but I’ve never subbed to a channel so fast. This video was PHENOMENAL. Thank you, and looking forward to more, regardless of the topic.

Thank you for this video....the state of the world right now is scarily close to the beginning of the dune saga....

I think a lot of fans forget he basically threatened Jessica to make his beliefs become true

I noticed how he began to loose his hardened crust and stops leading his own people with his own abundant wisdom, and how he began to blindly worship and grasp at every sign of the proficy

I've seen an interesting mention that the more Stilgar falls into faith, the more blood and dirt he has on his appearance.

Great video very informative..

I am in pain. for I am burdened with the thoughts of many... only to consecrate what I have known for the last decade since I've met her. I am in pain to know that her coping mechanisms are unhealthy and unsound... but I know that her issues are those of the many and she is part of it all. Your video carries more meaning than most work I've tumbled upon in years. I sincerely wish you could see what I do for you've gained a lot of perspective through a book I should have read as a kid. I never enjoyed getting lost in other people's thoughts so I've done my best to succeed without doing what was asked of me. I've gained skills I should never have learned and used them to decipher her curse. Our society calls it "npd" and has no positive prognosis. Years and years of "talk therapy"... is not on the table for how fast we are destroying what should have been. I'm not a theist nor do I know why these prophecies seem to allow for me to take a place I never wished to take, but I think we are doomed if I don't. All I wanted was one true love and I have found it when I was a teen... then healed from life taking it away from me. Then I met Her... the most broken person I've ever met... bound to fail at the thing she seemed to have such ease to acquire. Too many people are shallow because there are no directions, karma or prophecies. Just too much information that was never rendered clear and accessible. I was never interested in anything except the culmination of all the things I have learned (which I thought was "love") and, in way, this is what I will teach... It pains me that I want nothing for myself. Thank you for sharing this video with us.

Extremely well written

I'm so happy I'm not the only one from caught on to this. It's okay to put a little faith into something. But like anything else, too much of even the best things in life can be bad for you.

This is how strong civilizations facing hardship, like the Germans after WWI, can be so easily galvanized by an authoritarian figure that is seen as a savior. Hope can be even more dangerous than hate and fear, because it's a far more powerful motivator. People will readily abandon all caution when they're blinded by the idea of a better future.

I'm on board with this take 100%. But the full tragedy of the Fremen has only just BEGUN to be told in Dune Part II...!

Great video

What I’ve learned about Dune is that everyone is a pawn to the legend of the all powerful emperor to be who will save humanity. Paul’s a pawn, Leto II is a pawn, everyone.

It's not a story Atreides would tell you. It's a Fremen legend.

Javier Bardem was amazing. I am really excited for the 3rd movie and wonder how they will end it.

...Well done !.... very , very good ....

Well done 👍🏻 Great Job! … And curse-be-thy-name the enigmatic YTalgrthm

I like that Leto 2 in 6:35 looks totally unhappy.

Javier Bardem (Stilgar) continues to provide a stellar performance, skillfully balancing epic, grounded characteristics with subtle yet brilliant comedic relief. ‘’I am not the Madhi.’’ ‘’Only the Madhi will be as humble to deny he is Madhi.’’ ‘’As is written!!’’ XD (Touche Villeneuve..Touche)

There's no tragedy here. In the end, the atreides line delivered the green paradise all fremen dreamed of having. Stilgar placed his trust well

I think this video makes a good and powerful narrative. But I’m also not sure it’s the narrative necessarily meant to be drawn out. Or at least not completely. Dune by no means makes Paul a false messiah. It makes it vague. It is very possible Paul was foreseen in some details. And some of the things that happened to Paul were by complete “chance”. Like loving Chani without knowing her name, or happening to call the biggest worm they have ever seen. Those things were likely properly foreseen. So in a way, he doesn’t need to be a forced prophecy, but perhaps a truly foreseen one. I think an argument for self fulfilled prophecy is possible, but only to an extent. The worm wasn’t in on it. I think Dune warns of the dangers of mankind making their own prophecies of a messiah for sure though. And that’s seen in how it hurts the bene gesserit too. They wanted it one way and it didn’t happen. But I think there are some things about dune that are inherently spiritual seeming, yet explained by science. This doesn’t mean they couldn’t still be spiritual. Prescience itself is pretty incredible. I think it’s meant to be vague and make several points. To me it’s more of a “both and” thing. I don’t believe Frank Herbert meant to criticize belief, nor messianic belief. But pointed out the dangers and downfalls, but also the strengths of beliefs. And how belief can be manipulated by man. This doesn’t mean belief is evil, it means mankind will take power from anything they can.

That ending bit from Jamis sounds a bit like Taoism to me

You can see that theres a bit of stilgar in all of use.

I think one thing that people maybe miss, at least to me, is that the Fremen culture and way of life is all to keep the hope alive and to prepare for the paradise to come. In this way the paradise fulfils the teachings and preparations making them, not irrelevant, but removing them as focuses of life. I think it’s ok to sacrifice the things that were intended to bring you to paradise when the paradise comes about. The path Stilgar takes, whether the prophecies are true or not, lead to the fulfilment of the hope on which the Fremen base their lives. He is surely right, therefore, to throw everything down in pursuit of the hope of a saviour and the promise of paradise especially when he is faced with undeniable signs and wonders beyond the physical realm?

Javier Bardem, what an incredible actor. Perfect choice for Stilgar.

it wasnt any sand worm it was the grandfather of sandworms the biggest one

Good analysis. Stilgar was saved by Pardot Kynes after his neck was slashed by a Harkonnen when he was a child.

stilgar has a confirmation bias. Read the book - art of thinking clearly

This is exactly what I’ve written in my review!

Well, Frank Herbert took the concept of Mahdi from Islam including the prophecy that the Mahdi wouldn't proclaim himself to be one. In Islamic eschatology, the Mahdi is a central figure. One of the prophecies is that the Mahdi himself doesn't believe that he is the Mahdi, but it is the people who recognize him as such (to the point that people accuse of being the Mahdi while he denies it). So from this perspective, Stilgar didn't "twist words" just to confirm his beliefs. He is still just following the prophecy to the text.

It's always weir for me seeing a lot of people laugh and see stilgar as comic relief. The first time I see stilgar in dune part 2 it's feels unnerving or creepy, probably because I know a lot of people with similar compassion like stilgar.

I also see a lot of people online using Life of Brian jokes regarding Stilgar and they don't even seem to realize just how on the mark that is. Both Life of Brian and Dune are all about religious fanatacism, and how the people engaging in it are not necessarily crazy or delusional but just regular people who desperately want something worthwhile to believe in and live for, and both extensively explore the topic in their own ways. It's just that one does it through comedy and the other through a space opera.

Can I get a LISAN AL GAIB

Yes its so good story

4:00 Stilgar's experience has less to with a self-fulfilling prophecy, and more to do with what the work of hundreds of years of belief can do, on the course of shaping reality. What are the odds that a boy with the power to become the Kwisatz Haderach would end up on Arrakis? That his mother, a Bene Gesserit, would defy her sacred order to bring forth a son and his father's leadership and status among the Great Houses would threaten the emperor? What are the odds that, that boy -Paul would end up on a planet like Dune where the people have been oppressed and religiously manipulated for centuries and because of annihilation of his House, would set on a path against the Imperium that he was once a part of? I find it funny how the alchemy of the Bene Gesserit's own lies was what usurped their seats of power and their shadow-reign when the very purpose of those lies to begin with was meant to put them at the very heart of it. There's something poetic about that 😂🤣They were arrogant enough to believe that people like the Fremen were beneath them, primitive subjects to be manipulated and controlled. Whether they ever acknowledge it, they dehumanized the Fremen, believing that because they lacked power and they had it, it made them superior. It backfired. Paul was vulnerable after everything he lost, his identity subsumed by Fremen culture and engulfed by it on all sides. There was the pressure of their belief pushing him, his mother leading him down the path to become the Kwisatz Haderach and of course his own unconscious desire for revenge for the vicious annihilation of his Father and his House. Even through the power of his prescience, there seemed to be pressure pushing Paul-from his own ancestors (at least in the movie version) to become the Kwisatz Haderach. This is very dramatic display of the intersubjective nature of reality and how we are sometimes held in place by the things other people believe about us. (Intersubjectivity and self-perception-especially powerful with the people who are the closest to us and matter to us the most) Paul (perhaps with the exception of Chani from the movies) was surrounded by people who did not care much for his own personal choices, his autonomy, even his individuality. Stilgar said it himself, "It does not matter what you believe, I believe!" If Stilgar's belief was a thread that held Paul in place, imagine then, that Paul was covered in threads by all the people who believed. Paul may have used the Fremen to get his revenge but arguably, they also used him to fulfill the role of their Messiah. They did not care about Paul so much as they cared about the Lisan Al Gaib, so in essence, the propaganda of the Bene Gesserits prophecies became more than propaganda. It became a pathway that Paul started and his son Leto, finished. There was nothing "Golden" about it. It was just the most natural, the most probable course of reality based on the powers at play, the perception, thought and belief of the vast majority. For as Frank Herbert wrote: "The mystery of life isn't a problem to solve, but a reality to experience. A process that cannot be understood by stopping it. We must move with the flow of the process. We must join it. We must flow with it." The Bene Gesserit, it seems, didn't understand this. They tried to bio-engineer a solution for what they perceived as the problem of life and for Paul, unfortunately, it meant the Shadow aspect if his psyche was fed and validated by millions of Fremen, instead of confronted, questioned and brought out of the darkness of unconsciousness and individuated. I would like to add that if the course of *revolution* has taught me anything its that, it *never happens peacefully.* Perhaps the Fremen too had an unconscious desire to make their oppressors pay for centuries of the harsh existence of survivalism. "“Three hundred years of humiliation, abuse and deprivation cannot be expected to find voice in a whisper.” - Martin Luther King Jr. And perhaps ironically: "The oppressed are allowed once every few years to decide which particular representatives of the oppressing class are to represent and repress them." - Karl Marx The problem with the Fremen also was that they seemed to whole-heartedly believe in the prophecy, in the transformation of their desert world into a "Green Paradise". Did they not stop _once_ to question what a green paradise would mean for them as a people in terms of the culture and livelihood? If I were Fremen, I wouldn't care about a promised Savior and a green paradise so much as I would care to liberate my planet from the Imperium's control and then hopefully, forming our own governing body to control spice production and distribution. Since Arrakis is the only planet with the resource that facilitates interstellar travel, Arrakis would've become if not the most powerful, then certainly the wealthiest planet in the whole Imperium. I would then try to terraform only parts of the world, the parts that were not worm territory that contained the rich spice beds but human territory. In that world, Humans and the Shai-Halud might've coexisted. 5:22 I don't think Paul traps them in the shadow of Muad'dib myth. I would argue they were already trapped and by being trapped, *_they_* trapped _him._ Whether or not they meant to, they put the power of governance in his hands. They never stopped to consider tole or the price they would have to pay for this "Green Paradise", the fact terraforming a dessert planet would take years and years to do and even if they fought for that future, they themselves may never live to see it. All of their desire was instead left vague, grounded in myth and wrapped in the shroud of religious fervor. And of course, one can argue that it is not their fault, that it is the Bene Gesserit's fault but I think to do that also reduces their entire population from thinking human beings to mere receptacles of blind faith. I take issue with this. What would have happened if they had taken a realistic approach? If they took on the responsibility for their freedom from Imperium by themselves instead of waiting for a promised Messiah to do it for them? (As Chani in the movie wanted) If they did, they wouldn't have waited for a some promised Voice from the Outer World and Bene Gesserit's machinations would have fallen apart or at least been dismantled to some degree. 6:34 Of course told from Stilgar's perspective, the story is indeed a tragedy. He realizes, in the end, that he actively participated n the near-extinction of his people. I would argue that all is not lost and life moves inexorably forward. Also, if Stilgar was fair to himself, he can rest in the knowledge of all the things he did not know or fully understand and, perhaps, forgive himself for it. In time, the people of Arrakis would find massive skeletal remains of the Sandworms, the way we have find dinosaurs and archeologists will study Fremen culture the same way we study the cultures of the Ancient Greeks, the Romans and the Egyptians. To the observant mind, history is never fully lost. Instead, it carries the weight of many lessons that we might learn if we are patient enough and disciplined enough to hear its Voice across time.

How could Stilgar not have known that should the prophecy came true, Shai-Hulud and the Fremen would be gone? Shai-Hulud dies with water, whereas Fremen is all about the desert. Bringing green to Arrakis would mean the end of both, but what is there to mourn and grieve for when they have the paradise as promise?

A great rundown, and a great allegory from Frank Herbert

This reminds me of Smedley Butler weirdly

But what Jamis says, at the end of this video, is true of our world ;-)

Its actually worse during the 4th book. The Fremen sort of exist as Museum Fremen, but merely as shadows, mocked by the public, and desperately trying to find purpose, but to no avail.

I like to think the bg propaganda wasn't actually some bs but was an actual vision of the future from a bg in the long ago past. So Paul wasn't just another charismatic leader but truly was the lisan al gaib and was meant to be. So Stilgar was not a tragic person but someone who did come face to face with the reality of the mahdi.

To be fair, his belief paid off.

Seeing as we're getting a 3rd movie, a lot of this will be answered for non book readers. To be fair it's been quite awhile myself since I read the books.

This reminds me of Morpheus from The Matrix

But, the prophecy was not made up it was real. Something about the Dune universe I don't understand, least how everyone talks about it, is why everyone states the Prophecy is fake but it was created by people who legit have the ability, albeit limited, to be prophetic. Then on top of that they aid in fulfilling it, using more short-sighted prophetic visions making it even more likely the long term plays out as written. The prophecy clearly is not just made-up propaganda. It was a prophetic vision, from prophetic people, who spread that knowledge expecting it to work out differently because they could not fully understand their muddled visions. Only Paul can see how it plays out and Leto REALLY knows what must be done.

I mean people also seem to miss that in the end, Paul basically IS a god. The prophecy is false, sure, but what does that matter in the end? It exists, and Paul is whatever the Fremen were waiting for.

Very much enjoyed your analysis.

A false messiah can be made manifest through will and belief. Stil is exhausted as is his people and they want their deliverance at all costs.

The thing that complexes me is that this hope is realized in the Fremen's liberation in the books, does that not make his fanaticism well founded? Would love to hear peoples thoughts