Great video. Agree with the entire thing. I’m curious to see how things pan out for them. It’s still very early, and I hope they succeed, but they certainly missed the mark out of the gate. The model Orange used worked extremely well in reviving that brand, but requires a combination of mid to high end US built options alongside more affordable import series options.

And another nod to the doctors, lawyers, and CEOs of the world.

Something that telling to me on the mindset of the company was the little history blip. It read about how Sunn amps were "discovered" by all these blues players including Jimi Hendrix. I guess they don't know their brand is more linked to the doom stoner community know a days. They're marketing and pricing to the blues community which definitely has those doctor/dentist/lawyer hobbiest guitar players.

Fender must be smoking that dank van kushinator thinking they can charge $3,200 for a brand new amp

Totally agree. I was hoping I'd be able to get a modelT for $2k or less.. Pffft. No ONE is gonna buy em for 5000.. Or even 4000.. Just crazy. What a miss...

Good commentary. If I’m going to spend $3,200 on an amp I’m going to buy a custom amp from a boutique builder, not a garage sale amp. They clearly do not understand their market.

I agree with everything you said 100 percent. I had hopes the 100s would be affordable and that I'd be able to actually afford a Model T. Also did you see the teaser pics they've been posting? PCB mount tube sockets and plastic connectors on a 3200 dollar amp? I think that amp should be more like 1200... I'm worried that it'll drive the original 100s prices up too. As soon as I saw the price on their website I about shit myself and lost all hope. The Model T should be the main amp they had stocked and ready to ship the moment of the launch and for a reasonable price. Why am I gonna pay 5000+ for their reissue when I can pay the same for an original? Unfortunately I doubt any amps will ever ship in any significant numbers if at all. I bet they're using the t shirts to fund whatever ass backwards nonsense they're up to. Also did you see the section about how they want to get into modelling technology?? They need to get their shit together and make affordable and powerful amps like people want

out of touch sums it up perfectly.

I’d love to play a model T someday! But I definitely would not (and def could not) pay those new prices. 🤞they turn this launch into something cool

Kind of baffling that they would change the circuits for the Beta series. Here is that classic amp you loved so much except it actually isn't that amp because we fucked with it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

DOA. The company will be gone before they make a model t

I am actually a pretty big fan of the early Sunn amps 100s, 200s et al....but 3K 😵. Might actually cost them a lot to produce, especially with those brand name licensing fees they may be paying....but you are right, get a vintage and and have a tech go through it. This has Ponzi Scheme written all over it...hope I am wrong. I would rather have that Science you demoed the other day than any Sunn anyway...

I am totally with you about not having any demos or anything to show. I am still excited but i felt the whole launch was not enough, more photos or videos would have been amazing

From what i see it is just a money grab- they don't care about the community at all. I would prefer to support small and passionate amp builders like IIIVIIVIII amps(from Sweden) that make awesome Model T clones and put a lot of work to figure everything out from scratch. People like them are the community. And new Sunn? This will probably end up like Sound City, Hiwatt and other legendary brands that got relaunched some time ago but cannot really make anything exciting nowadays...

Over 3 grand for a 65 watt!!! BULLSHIT!! like you said there gonna try and make the model T a worm on the hook for all of us!

Basically Sunn have made the amps priced for retiring boomers (ie well off). They should have just made a model T and build it in Mexico (like Fender does for like the Hot Rod Deluxe). Priced at around £/$1500. Honestly no idea what people are smoking atm. Orange just released a new amp and the price of that is frankly ridiculous. Pre covid £1k got you a really good amp - now its like "oh that pays for a practice amp at home". So all that's going to happen is push more towards digital

The thing about the Model T build being "very very expensive" just sounds fake. Great transformers, builds, etc cost money but it's easy to tell how much: Science Amps makes a 200W amp with *more* headroom that will basically do both Model T (thanks for hyping me on the Exegol Zack!) and Hiwatt sounds in custom colors for 2750, Jessup, Hex Electrics and others do 150+W T clones for the same price as their 100S reissue. If your only market is crazy fanboys where that Sunn badge on the front is worth an extra $2000 it makes whole project feel like the Creem revival, just cheesy--and *nothing* like the original company, which was pretty focused on real music-making.

There's Sunn)) which we all know and love, and then there's $unn)) which apparently everyone already hates lol.

And now they're deleting any comments on Instagram talking about pricing 😂

The Investor tab definitely caught my attention too. It seemed a little sketchy IMHO

I totally agree man. All this is a cash grab in the worst way. People are not stupid. Plus betas, are way too low in wattage for bass players, even for guitar players. 100 in 4 ohms, considering most bass cabinets now are 8 ohms, it's 60 watts in 8 ohms, and since it's solid state we're talking about output power a 25 watts tube amp would produce. Unusable like you said in live situations, even rehearsal I would say if your band plays loud. Anyway, what a sham..

Dang the Model T will be up to $6000 no doubt 😢

Probably the reason why they didn't do the model t is because high-wattage tube amps are kind of out of fashion, and they wanted to start out with a lower wattage one. The beta series amps seem to me like they want to appeal to current trends (lower wattage, preamps). Would've probably been smarter do do a lower-wattage variant of a model t though.

yeah, that's pretty sad. Sunn did go the wrong way. The whole "investor-jacked up price" is really fishy, but it's just the new consumerist way: "Promise first, (under)deliver later". The fact is that in one hand, the market has changed due to a new generation of consumers with new buying habits (pre-orders, fanboys, miss out anxiety etc) and on the other hand, companies have also changed as they tend to be investment risk averse, which brings a scary lot of half baked projects that stay unpolished most of the time. I guess the whole re-release/relaunch has been decided not motivated by popular demand but by a zeitgeist on the new market value process: the one where many are ready to spend 400-500+ dollars for a 30 bucks digitech bad monkey. So yeah, if a second hand mass produced pedal can do it, why can't a big name like sunn? My guess is sunn is looking for that kind of client , not musicians.

Mind boggling. $3,200? I'm going Matamp or Orange CS for that money. A really well done Model T at that price? Maybe Also, the Beta should be class A/B... even the Orange Crush and Boss Katana are A/B. Nothing to see here.

Just putting it out there that the JPTR Ohmacht's can be found for about 2.5k, and their titans are about 3.5k. both are hand soldered and seem to be better value for money that "limited run model T's" ever will be, which is sad.

I agree with you on this. I'm not that well versed in Sunn amps so the only ones I really know of are the model t and beta lead, I think that's probably the case for a lot of people. With that in mind they should have made sure that both of those were there for a relaunch, seems both out of touch with what fans want and with what people are aware of about their brand. Still curious about the beta lead as the pricing does seem fair, but that price on faith with no demo videos is nuts.

It's four months later and their site still says coming soon, what a joke haha.

You made a lot of good points I hadn’t even considered. I usually give folks some leeway until proven otherwise, but now I’m leaning towards “what the fuck is going on”

I understand this frustration, but the beta relaunch is the news here. The Orange Crush series proved solid state sounds great and folks want them. It’s time for more options in a type of gear that’s useful to more people.Historically Sunn designed more legendary solid state gear than tube. I do agree with the general “for boomers only” criticism on the tube amp pricing. However 100W plus tube amps are like sports cars. Awesome in very specific circumstances, practically useless, in most (without an attenuator). Just a thought.

Agreed. The Beta bass and Beta lead they should have made the power amps identical to the original amps. I'm not sold on class d power amps. !!!

I think the Beta Lead looks pretty sweet. Don't worry about D class, I have a Bluguitar Amp1 and it has a 100W D class power amp and it is loud as hell! Would love to own a Beta Lead as well. But Hilbish Design is the same price right now. The Sunn tube amps look way too overpriced. But here in the EU there are no Sunn amps on the used marked. Maybe they want to go for the EU market. I don't understand why they didn't release the Model T for a reasonable price (around 1.5k). PS.: If you'd do the relaunch right, Sunn could print money with their amps. But right now it looks kind of weird.

Did they google their name? At this point I'm just praying the Betas are decent, I've wanted one for forever. Edit: No clue why they want to market the Model T like a JCM 800

Classic marketing people being marketing people. Sunn would barely exist in guitar memory if the doom and stoner subgenre hype didn't keep them alive. They show back up massively overpriced and marketed at... blues players? These people are out of their mind

i heard from a interview with the people who are re launching these sunn amps that the reason they arent releasing model ts right now is because they want to make sure that they get the amp enginered right

So after all this hype the Model T is still unavailable? …and if/when it becomes available it’ll be unaffordable? They’re already either unavailable, or unaffordable so what’s the point?

I think I'll just stick with my Concert Lead until I can upgrade for a vintage Model T.

A low gain "pedal platform" is clearly not what people were expecting, especially not at that price.

The 799 Class-D Beta Lead does sound like a cool premise, on the surface. I *might* be tempted. However, the 699 preamp that weighs 26 POUNDS... what is up with that? It's basically the amp, sans the power amp board... that's just a bit insane. The whole preamp circuit easily fits into a pedal that weighs half a pound. Why would anyone buy this huge monstrosity? A 350 dollar official beta lead pedal would be an INSTANT buy from me and a lot of people, and seems like a much better fit. I guess I should be happy since I've been developing that myself; I guess I'll follow through with the idea and market it :)

Agree with you on all of this! And I think the best beta lead price it's 500$. 700$ it's to much for 100watts.

I totally agree with everything you said bro. Good research and I think these guys have other jobs and this is their moonlighting job or something. If a company can't see these simple points you can be sure the "Investor" page will become the home page. Sunn)) has been historically poor at running their company so none of this surprises me at all. My only question would be...."When can I pay $100 for the Sunn)) Hoodie and can you leave out the stupid )) on mine?

I had a Beta bass 2X15 combo in 8th grade! 1982! Heavy metal then thrash and hard-core it was the best amp I ever owned, but it broke twice. And I blew the speakers. I loved the sound. Heavy if I wanted or clean and fat. But didn't have the footswitch. I think mine was only 100w, but it was loud enough for me.

Myself owned the 100s &200s and the Spector. Now those were the real original Sunn amps. And I am here to testify, those amps sounded amazing. Used to run them through 8-12" 2 cabs with ev12L speakers. When I would play bass I used the 200s into an early Peavey 2-15 ported cab loaded with JBL speakers. And a Rickenbacker 4001 bass and Let me testify Majic happened. Quite possibly the best sounding bass amp I ever played through. 63yrs young and have owned and played enough gear to fill a house. Just like any other amp that claims to be a throwback, most use the cheapest components and do not compare to the original. I would take a 1969 plexi and compare to a so called reissue and guarantee you would want the original. Back in the day we were Customers, Today were Consumer's. Think about that

And here we are 6 months later and still the website has not been updated. I tried to pre-order a Beta Lead but was told in the checkout that there was no international shipping. What the fuck Sunn? Clearly the people behind Sunn now have only licensed the use of the Sunn name and don't have enough money behind them to go to production. It's a real shame, I had massive high hopes to grab a Beta Lead or Beta Bass because the originals are just impossible to find in my part of the world. I bet that part of the licensing agreement is that they have to pay a certain level of royalty depending on the amp and the Model T is out of reach for them at the moment. Why they haven't marketed to the Stoner Doom community is beyond me. Why they don't have any contact details other than e-mail address. It looks more like a scam site than an amp manufacturer.

I know it would be against type, but I would love a smaller Sunn amp in the vein of an Orange Micro Dark.

I agree 100% and I am very disappointed how this thing happened the way that it did. Wasted opportunity.

Oh exactly man, they have missed a great opportunity there and missed it by a mile! I was hoping for an affordable model T and maybe even like a mini version too. You were right on the money with the betas. Could easily have made them 500w with class d amps. Then at 799 they would probably fly out. 🤦‍♂ I will not be investing! 😂

I’ve got a Sunn Studio Lead (solid state) combo, paid $325. Sunn 200s head only $425. Into Willis 2X15 cab Sunn Scepter head only $325. Into Egnater Tourmaster 4X12 cab. Total investment around $2,000 with tax. $3,000 + for a reissue amp? I’ll stick with the vintage Sunn.

I sure hope they see everybody's comments out there on interwebs and make a course correction soon.

I bought a couple of Custom Sound Amps of fleebay last month. British company who made mainly PAs. The amps were peanuts and I had a plan in mind but I was absolutely astonished by the dirt channel on the two. They’re a Cub 60 lead and a Cub 60 Bass combo. Very Sunnish. They have an in built chorus but I’ve not been able to get it working on either. Might save my money and get some of their bigger amps instead of the Sunn.

"limited" Model T is going to be $7000 😂 Totally agreed their comments about the 100s being the "affordable" path is outrageous too. Even their frfr options are ridiculously expensive. 1800 for a 1x12??? This whole thing is just a joke. Im also surprised that there arent any video reviews coinciding with release... So odd

Agree 100% with all of your points here.

"100 watts may not be loud enough for the live musician." Bro what?

With how they are going about it I'm glad I went on to get myself on the list for a JPTR FX titan. If I'm at that price point I want all the bells and whistles.

I get the feeling they are like a dad who promises something then yells at you when it doesn’t happen

I totally agree with you. $3200 for an amp? They are on crack.

How is it possible they missed the mark on this? Way to ignore the market that gave SUNN it's cult status

So much negativity on here… I get it Sunn amps have always been undervalued and we have our stories of getting them cheap. I remember buying my first Sunn for 100 bucks. Remember passing on a first gen T and 2x15 cab for 900 because it seemed too expensive and didn’t have the cash. I eventually bought a super clean one for 1200 but let it go because I was playing bass and my SVT was better suited. I’m now back to a 2000S which isn’t going anywhere. If that’s the dream amp then save up and make it happen, hold onto it and focus on your playing. You’re not going to regret it.

An Orange Ad200b, svt classic, super bassman, and mesa 400 are all cheaper then the sunn 200s. No way in hell I'd get a $3200 65w 200s over those.😮

AMEN. Such a let down. And now, it's nearly impossible to find a reasonably priced clone.

I think as with most things that get relaunched (video games etc..) the prices of the originals go down a bit too. so maybe they'll come backdown to reality lol

Knew it was gonna be overpriced the moment fender was involved. Fender are kings at expensive priced amps with shitty internals and build

If 100W of a tube amp is not good enough for you, mercy on your soul. Any tube driven 100W head has more than enough volume to tear down a house, really. Also, Class D amps can have a ton more Watts on tap but in a more efficient circuit. That they chose to use only 100W Class D is surprising, because they could've relatively easily went for 500W and be just fine. (BTW wasn't the original Model T a 100W 6L6 power amp tubes amp?)

Some of us still like all tube amps because of the sound and they should have reissued the other amps you mentioned

100w solid state is not much for a bass head, but definitely reasonable for eletric guitar. The tube amps are expensive. I really do hope, that they will introduce some reasonably priced model T type amps. It would have been so stupid of them to not do that. JFET model T at maybe 300w and IR's would be a literal dream.

I would have even rather seen the Concert Lead reissued over 100 &200S. makes no sense. and those prices!.....they are out of their minds!

I expect if they reissue the model t its goinf to be $6400... which is a slap in the fucking face to anyone who has always wanted one but cant afford a original or cant find a reissue.

Zach good morning. Why does your Dark Terror have a different enclosure than mine? Did you buy it like that or had the original modded? I'm sorry but we bedroom players only need a Dark Terror in my 212 Mesa cab 😆

The builder who is making me a Model T, Stoneham Amplification, says the T is quite easy and simple to build & I'm paying less that 2K (UK) for it, and it's a custom made to order T. The corporate side of Fender are talking for Sunn (Mission Engineering) here. I'm staying with Stoneham.

I have to agree with the here. I have no idea what they are thinking. I have a guy who said he’d clone me a Model T for……….. £500! He’s a top marshal guy and is mint so it would be good. £500. I think the new Sunn/Engineering crew are a bunch of engineers and they have no business sense. Il probably buy a Beta though.

I should mention from what I remember, two brothers from Oregon started Sunn amps. They built them by hand in a garage and were loosely bassed on Dynaco stereo tube amplifiers of the day. Hence the originals have Dynaco transformers. So once word got around Musicians they were wanting them faster than the Brothers could make them. That was the start of Sunn. Yes Jimi Hendrix used Sunn, Sly and the Family Stone, the Who ect. They were built with Love back then, not mass produced by shirts ties and skirts. So if you find an original for a decent price GET IT!! You won't regret it. Especially before the prices go stratospheric since once people discover them they won't let go of them like my stupid a## did 😂

It was a bad idea for the start up MODEL T should have been built on the old specs nothing else let just see how long the SUNN brand stays in business

Great video! I was a kid when Sunn came out and I'm a big fan. For a while back in the late 70's I ran a few repair shops in West LA and Hollywood and heads up, the Beta series are what killed Sunn (along with the clueless general manager) The Mosfet was a great idea but those early versions were very unstable and used to self destruct all the time. Model T yes and Beta no (imho). The workhorse back then was the Colliseum Lead and Bass those were hardworking pro level amps and the Beta's were junk by comparison. There was another tube amp that Sunn sold back in the mid 60's as a PA., it had 4 KT88's (instead of 2 KT88's in the 100/200s) and according to Buck Munger (Sunn Artist relations) These amps were packaged as 100s/200s they were the ones that were available to bands (not the 60 watt, 2 KT88 amps) before they released the 2000/1000s. They were really punchy and very hard to find. I agree the Model T (with 6550's not 6L6's) should have been the priority.. I hope they don't blow it.

I’m a big Sunn fan, but by the time I was old enough with a stable job to afford one they sky rocketed in price, I was so hoping that when the brought SUNN back they would have like a Chinese or Indonesian made version of the model T or even smaller Watt versions of it for like 1/3 of the cost of what the 100S are going for. Such a waste of an amazing IP and really shows how out of touch they are with the people that adore SUNN amps.

I know that this might get disliked to hell but wattage is not as good of an indicator of volume as speaker sensitivity. You can easily play a 100 watt head with a bass if you’re playing through a few high dB speakers. THAT BEING SAID, re: they didn’t remake the Model T yet, the JPTR FX Ohm Macht is $2800 brand new with a warranty on it. Sunn done goofed by not being aware of the market ahead of time.

I think they are banking on collectors buying these because that price point is ridiculous! I mean, for that price, I could get a diezel vh4 for just a bit more! Which is a much more versatile amp. The sunn Brand isn't very well known, especially among younger generations. I bought a sunn 4 12 cabinet in 1991 for $200! Which I love! You are definitely right! Seems like a money grab also. Take a bunch from money investors, run it in the ground , and sell off inventory on the used market. Idk seems sketchy at best.

Absolutely.....what are they thinking? I hate to see the price of the Model T...I am guessing even up to 6K lmao. Its going to be a disaster is what its going to be. What a shame.

And those are USD prices. So imagine the conversion to AUD

Great video.

Not seeing much at all of any reissue Sunn demos and the recent video of someone's Beta Lead reissue video here on KZfaq apparently doesn't have much for good level for volume, disappointing if you ask me. I was really trying to push for the new reissue Sunn amps.

I think the models you picked were the ones they shouldve gone with. I think with the ammount of clones/inspired by Model T's out on the market, Honestly it would be best to go the Clone route and slash your personal cost in half compared to Original, Fender Reissue or New Reissue. Obviously whoever is behind SUNN right now did not pay attention to who is playing what and how much some people want some of these amps? the 100 and 200is maybe something to put out after you get some ground under your feet as a relaunched company. I will promise that the high prices will keep me far away. I have no interest in paying exorbitant prices for Vintage or new. I hope it works out and all but I dont intend on blowing a down payment on a house for an amplifier! I guess time will tell and maybe they know something everyone else doesnt?

Part of their appeal is that they are rare, now when you see one, it's just gonna be another amp.

I wonder if anything will happen with Sunn O))) the band now that the name is trademarked again

in what scenario is 100 watts not loud enough to play with a full band? 100 is insanely loud.

Inflation is a bitch!

Yeah, i feel like people will vote with their wallets on this one.

Was hoping for the real deal...sad to see the hype and junk. I'll stick to the used market. thanks for the heads up 👍

Dude I’ve seen those 200s for $700 😂

Honestly, it's insulting, but apart from that it's "doomed" to fail due mostly to pure amateurish marketing. Apparently they have never googled sunn

1000% agree with everything that you said. other than the beta's, the launch lineup and the price says everything about the group of goofy dad rockers running the relaunch, especially considering the amount of clones around. the market research is already done for them and its so unbelievably easy to figure out who is buying Sunn and what they are buying. Definitely going to pick up a beta lead just for shits, but if it sucks, my Hilbish will continue to do me just fine.

Yeah, this doesn't look good at all lol. I even looked into the 2x15 cab because I'm in the market for some sunn 2x15s and while the price isn't announced yet, 100w on a 2x15 cab strikes me as very low. No price is enough for blown speakers. You can also get a Model T clone for cheaper than the 100S/200S amps. Also, wasn't beta lead always 100w?

I agree, seems like they missed the ball big time. How hard would it be to make a mass produced model T, with lower wattage and a direct out for recording or other options that many modern amps have? I would have bought one for sure, but 100s for 3200? No thank you.

That's a no for me, dawg. Class D on the SS is a mistake.

$800 for a class D is still way to high. You can get an orange super crush 100w a/b for $500 and doom away without breaking the bank for the average person.

Agreed. But what about the elephant in the room? The Model T and it’s rise in popularity and demand because of the band SUNN O))). They are responsible for any interest in this brand in the last 20 years. I noticed on the relaunch website under ‘history’ that they are not even mentioned! Yet Kurt Cobain and the Melvins are. Seriously. Am I sensing a ‘Gibson’ style cease and desist?!

Oh nooo I've always loved sunn o wtf happened?

Maybe I should just get an used Dynaco Mk3 and pair it with one of these preamp pedals you demo’d lol.

Sounds like prestige worldwide, investors? Possibly you? 😅

Yep. This is a major fail. They're trying to cash in, hence the cash grab on amps no one really wants anyway. The investor section makes me question the veracity of the entire enterprise. These amps msy never see the light of day. Count me out.

Yes, a 100% correct!!!