The role of forgiveness in a time of war, with Justin Welby | Ukraine: the latest

The role of forgiveness in a time of war, with Justin Welby | Ukraine: the latest | Podcast

Рет қаралды 10,806

Күн бұрын

The Archbishop of Canterbury, Justin Welby, is the spiritual leader of the Anglican church. Recently he visited Kyiv, spending several days in Ukraine meeting chaplains, religious leaders and civilians impacted by the war.
In this bonus episode of Ukraine: the latest, host David Knowles speaks to him about his visit, the concept of forgiveness in the midst of a brutal war, and finding God amid the horrors and cruelty of missile strikes, occupation and death.
'Putin can still be crushed': Russia's brutal invasion two years on - Ukraine: The Latest Video Special from the US Embassy:
• 'Putin can still be cr...
Thank you to everyone who attended or watched online.
Subscribe to The Telegraph: telegraph.co.uk/ukrainethelatest
Email: ukrainepod@telegraph.co.uk

Пікірлер: 119

@jaymacpherson8167 5 ай бұрын

Forgiveness is for the forgiver…lest we carry the hate and anger to our continuing detriment. Forgiving is difficult. Forgiving allows us to let go of a burden.

@radarspotter4032 5 ай бұрын

Thanks for providing a diversity of viewpoints. This is good journalism even it wasn’t the usual political or military analysis. Understanding what other people think is valuable.

@monsieurgrigny 4 ай бұрын

This was really first-class. Congratulations to David Knowles on a superb and sensitive interview. Combined with the recent Spectator interview with Welby on his travails in the Synod, I'm beginning to warm to the man. Listening from Italy.

@user-vz8md1yk3x 5 ай бұрын

Excelent description of how to work through the difficult process of true forgiveness. Forgiveness first of all sets the forgiver free.

@laurie9557 5 ай бұрын

Forgiveness encourages aggressors to increase their aggression.

@samael7867 5 ай бұрын

like it was with germany, look at that aggresive nation. so many wars since ww2, oh sry that was the USA

@mattwardman 5 ай бұрын

Welby is speaking about potential for reconciliation, and forgiveness comes after repentance. It's interesting that the theologian he refers to - Jurgen Moltmann now 97 - was a drafted anti-air gunner in Germany who was on the receiving end of the Hamburg Firestorm bombing in WW2. Quite a good and considered interview, imo, especially following the rabbit holes.

@dimas3829 5 ай бұрын

@@mattwardman repentance is foreign word for the western world, though. It's all about acceptance now in the rotten corpse of both Catholic and Protestant churches there.

@CatalystD9 5 ай бұрын

Forgive but Never Forget 🙏💙💛🔥

@stupidburp 5 ай бұрын

Never forgive Russia for the crimes they committed. It will only encourage them to commit more war crimes in the future. This pattern has been repeated for centuries already.

@marblackCanada 5 ай бұрын

How does he explain the Russian Orthodox church being the driving force behind Putin?

@dimas3829 5 ай бұрын

wut? If anything Orthodox Church is subservient to the regime and there were a few of clergy that stood up against official motive and spoke out for peace to be then silenced. It's not driving force, its' drived non-force.

@tawektawek3838 5 ай бұрын

@@dimas3829 That's right. One of the reason the Kremlin are contemptuous of world-wide religions is because they assume that religions are secretly controlled by the state. Where they are, they are not genuine religions. Where religions are at their best, they speak truth to power.

@Hoppenoffer 5 ай бұрын

I note that an episode on forgiveness is half the length of an episode on blood and guts.✌️❤️

@blechtic 4 ай бұрын

The other half is repentance but I don't think we'll be seeing that any time soon.

@goldenoriolesilverbirch8220 5 ай бұрын

God always seems to take the side of the army with the most & best weapons.

@huwzebediahthomas9193 5 ай бұрын

And then they write their version of events into the history books, and it then becomes the official truth. Man is mad and will never change.

@stupidburp 5 ай бұрын

The pope expressed support for Russian imperialism and aggression.

@sergarlantyrell7847 5 ай бұрын

Maybe he's not overly concerned with if a particular city flies the Ukrainian or Russian flags... Maybe the concerns a universe-spanning deity aren't the same as a resident of said city.

@goldenoriolesilverbirch8220 5 ай бұрын

Thanks for the podcast. It reminds me of why I find religious leaders & their waffle utter nonsense.

@janetbarkwith 5 ай бұрын

exactly. And Welby is one of the worst.

@ears9506 5 ай бұрын

t does sound like nonsense because our words have limits and appeals to the left brain (logic). The word that turned me off was "forgive" which I took to mean "free pass" which turned me into "stupid" and opened me up for a repeat event. So, for me, I could change the offensive word "forgive" to" an emotional phrase "let-it-go". (I figured the goal was to keep the snake (emotions) from flying the plane (making my decisions). That frees me up to use left-brain logic, stay in control, and do what I need to do. I also use (from the King James Bible Matthew 5 : 22...) paraphrased: '...being angary and spread lies about your brother - fear judgement (God); spread contempt/hate about your brother : fear the Council (council of men) The rest I leave for those who are looking for the path or walking the path to find their God.

@janetbarkwith 5 ай бұрын

Um - see the original post ... @@ears9506

@tawektawek3838 5 ай бұрын

@@ears9506 I like the phrase "let go" because it is the opposite of irrational emotionalism. Rather it is the setting aside of that emotion which is harming us. One of the reasons why much of Europe is in a better place than it was before 1945 is because many Europeans have let go of their anger. It wasn't easy, as I know from my parents. One of the reasons other places are in a bad place is because too many hold their resentments close. Of course this is much harder if those responsible show no regret for the harm they have done.

@huwzebediahthomas9193 5 ай бұрын

Thought for a second Julian Clarey was introducing this...

@PopkornStar 5 ай бұрын

I'd love to hear Stephen Fry after this.

@williammorris584 5 ай бұрын

Hitchens is profoundly missed.

@PopkornStar 5 ай бұрын

💯

@TheFeldhamster 5 ай бұрын

This. While I can totally understand the people of Ukraine turning to religion in their desperation (according to polls, religiosity has gone up a lot), what they really need is a lot of really good psychologists. The one factor justifying more priests is that people in former Soviet countries have a lot of distrust in anything with the word "psych" in it, as psychology and psychiatry were used as a method of oppression.

@PopkornStar 5 ай бұрын

@@TheFeldhamster as a Ukrainian (and an atheist) I can say that there are a lot of different religions in Ukraine but religious people are pretty chilled with it, the most common answer about it would be 'I believe in my own way', so that's already an agnostic mood. "Former soviet countries" sounds like it's a one single country, but they are very different countries, we're just trauma bonded. Ukrainians are very progressive and are not sceptical about the word ''psych'', quite the opposite, there are tons of info about anxiety, depression, ptsd, coping, etc available for civilians because it's needed like never before. There are trainings, hot lines, even tv ads about gp providing mental support. What Ukrainians need is safety, it's ally's quick and effective support, and the rest they can sort themselves. I just really don't get why Telegraph made this episode, religious western listeners will nod but then what? Agnostics and atheists will raise an eyebrow, and Ukrainians will be wtf-ing about forgiveness message.

@sergarlantyrell7847 5 ай бұрын

@@TheFeldhamster When the comfort and security is torn away and people face their own mortality, people tend to look for something more secure than 4 walls and a roof.

@rihacat 5 ай бұрын

Padraic D McGaugh writes: Sunt lacrimae rerum. AMDG

@CatalystD9 5 ай бұрын

- Only the monstrous anger of the guns .. 🙏💙💛

@brittadueandersen2519 5 ай бұрын

No forgiveness for Putin - from Denmark.

@burritosls 5 ай бұрын

Putin doesn't need your forgiveness))

@allrpg10 5 ай бұрын

That's right, it's time for Denmark to stop occupying Greenland. No forgiveness for the Danish genocide of the Inuit.

@samael7867 5 ай бұрын

as a german i am glad so many people forgave us our atrocities.

@brittadueandersen2519 5 ай бұрын

If the Greenlanders want full independence from Denmark, the majority of them must vote for other politicians. The Greenlanders' problem is money, they know they need support from another country.@@allrpg10

@dimas3829 5 ай бұрын

@@samael7867 not all. All that "clear Wermacht" myth was a big rock on a path of forgiving. Yet, Germany acknowledged it's mistakes so it's cool as long as no new group of unesireables are formed (like those standing against eco-fascists or those that don't welcome agressive foreigners in their homeland)... Japan, on the other hand..

@SHAD0WZOMBIE 5 ай бұрын

Slava Ukrani!!

@midimusicforever 5 ай бұрын

It's not easy to forgive Putler.

@huwzebediahthomas9193 5 ай бұрын

He's sick in the head.

@stupidburp 5 ай бұрын

Don’t

@dimas3829 5 ай бұрын

for what exactly? For standing up for victims of evil Kiev's regime?

@sergarlantyrell7847 5 ай бұрын

It's not easy to forgive anyone.

@tawektawek3838 5 ай бұрын

Indeed. I like to think I could forgive someone who harmed my loved ones if they repented of their evil, though maybe I wouldn't. I wish I had the character of Gordon Wilson, who forgave the IRA killers of his daughter. I fear I don't.

@LlamaDuck2211 5 ай бұрын

I think it is weird how hard this guy tries to not offend the russiаns. Great podcast, though.

@paulharrison7761 5 ай бұрын

Justin Welby. The man who speaks no sense.

@stupidburp 5 ай бұрын

Respectfully, to hell with forgiveness for Russian war crimes. No. Just No.

@RRRR0707 5 ай бұрын

Let's remember how many millions of civilians have been killed by Americans and Britons around the world over the past 70 years. Syria, Yugoslavia, Vietnam, Iraq, Libya and others. Will we forgive all these war crimes or is it something else?

@dimas3829 5 ай бұрын

how about Ukrainian warcrimes? Your lot was pretty forgiving for them so far.

@tawektawek3838 5 ай бұрын

@@RRRR0707 Indeed. As a Brit, I am grateful that many have forgiven my country's past crimes during the time of the British Empire. I deeply respect those who, following WW2, forgave Germans. I hope the day comes that Russians are freed from their present imperialist leadership, and they can be forgiven in turn.

@michellejutras3940 5 ай бұрын

Justice

@dimas3829 5 ай бұрын

for Donbass

@alanaustin7011 5 ай бұрын

He didn't now how to answer where is god he should keep to his job lookling after his flock

@richardmarsden5610 5 ай бұрын

Some will of course have to beg for forgiveness.... German economy not looking good.

@rightsidehimane 5 ай бұрын

Common sense to all and mercy to people in Ukraine. Open border people of Ukraine and giving people choice. People in Ukraine don't want be slaves of war without end genocide.

@christelfleischer243 5 ай бұрын

😢 Spreche leider nur deutsch ❤

@huwzebediahthomas9193 5 ай бұрын

Gutten tag. 😎👍🙃

@ears9506 5 ай бұрын

t does sound like nonsense because our words have limits and appeals to the left brain (logic) while religion is spoken to the right brain (emotion). Instead, I use the King James Bible Matthew 5 : 22.. paraphrased: '...being angry when there has been no injustice (jealous) by your brother - fear judgement (God). Spread contempt or hate about your brother : fear the Council (council of men) The rest I leave for those who are looking for the path or walking the path to find their God.

@Jazzisa311 5 ай бұрын

First time ever I stopped listening to the podcast and downvoted. This is super inapproprate in my opinion. There can be no talk of forgiveness WHILE the horrible actions are still happening. Forgiveness comes AFTER. Religious babble isn't interesting or beneficial imo. We need concrete action to help Ukraine!

@RyanBrown-nx8dw 5 ай бұрын

Awwwwwwww the govnas dont want to talk abot advivka anymore?😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

@waynebrown8601 5 ай бұрын

No talk of Palestinians… No parallels in both conflicts… A very pointless human being…the very reason the UK is turning away from faith… For crying out loud man call out all atrocities performed by ALL governments…the lack of courage and strength in modern clergy I truly despicable

@sarahwood9436 5 ай бұрын

If Justin Welby really wants to do God’s work he should be reaching out to Putin for an interview to find out how this war can be resolved without further bloodshed. Putin is a Christian who reopened the Churches in Russia so Welby as a Minister of the Church could be influential in bringing the two sides to negotiation. That is what a true Christian would be advocating

@tawektawek3838 5 ай бұрын

Considering Putin's belief in Russia exceptionalism, the right to break solemn treaty obligations, and the murder of his opponents, how many of the fruits of Christianity does he display? As Matthew 7:22-29 indicates, many who call themselves Christian are not. That said, it is not for us to judge.

@blechtic 4 ай бұрын

Why exactly do we need Putin to tell him that Ukraine should just give up?

@tawektawek3838 4 ай бұрын

I don't think Putin is a Christian. I think he is a ruthless gangster who has infiltrated the leadership of the Russian Orthodox Church, and uses it as part of his control of the country. I'm doubtful a true Christian would murder or imprison all his political opponents, break innumerable formal treaties, preside over a military that routinely engages in war crimes, and not just lie but take pride in lying, .

@huwzebediahthomas9193 5 ай бұрын

He just went to Ukraine for ego and something to chat about on Saturday night North London dinner parties. Turns my stomach them English types.

@user-qp7lo8vy5r 5 ай бұрын

Horrible job...no religious doctrine please.

@mtam7575 5 ай бұрын

God never be on evils side, it is the Satan.

@richardmarsden5610 5 ай бұрын

Russia Reveals The Upgraded & Combat-ready T-80BVM Model 2023 Tank kzfaq.info/get/bejne/l7Scn7qA2bTFeI0.html

@davidbrancaleone3039 5 ай бұрын

Pretend person SHAME ON RUSSIANS. UNFIT HUMANS. CRUEL. BRUTAL. ON YOUR KNEES.

@billsmith-hl8rk 5 ай бұрын

|What a load of old tripe.

@Mark4star1 5 ай бұрын

Why introduce this into otherwise very sound reporting. How many battles has thoughts and prayers won? Both sides praying to the same 'all loving God' for protection and victory?

@johnhare595 5 ай бұрын

This is not serious,

@steve9007 5 ай бұрын

no thanks

@stephenglover8828 5 ай бұрын

The role of forgiveness lol. Ok so tell me how can Ukraine ever forgive NATO whom have clearly war gamed this out and got Ukraine to fight anyway. Meanwhile soldiers have been abandoned in avdeyvka. Ukraine morale is at an all time low at it only has it's "allies" to blame.

@huwzebediahthomas9193 5 ай бұрын

It's always the fallback by the English Anglican religion - break glass for the forgiveness yabber. They don't know they're born! Forgiveness mee harris.

@antlerman7644 5 ай бұрын

what a load of nonse, keep it to the facts, not religous babble please

@user-gu1ti9me6i 5 ай бұрын

How is Ukraine winning if they can't even gain any territory?

@huwzebediahthomas9193 5 ай бұрын

It's a type of Northern Ireland past situation, but obviously yes, on a bigger scale. What good were English Anglicans there then? None, nish.

@user-gu1ti9me6i 5 ай бұрын

@@huwzebediahthomas9193So continually losing territory is winning?

@huwzebediahthomas9193 5 ай бұрын

@@user-gu1ti9me6i Who wins?

@whysoserious8666 5 ай бұрын

Sometimes winning is just not losing.

@eioclementi1355 5 ай бұрын

@@whysoserious8666 second place in a war isn't winning

@alanaustin7011 5 ай бұрын

Sorry can't listen to this

@joshuapaul2022 5 ай бұрын

The third assault brigade (Azov) refused to fulfill suicidal Syrsky orders (Bakhmut Zelenskyy/Syrsky lunacy all over again) and started running away from Avdiivka. Other units followed suit. They ran under Russian artillery fire and through mine fields with disastrous consequences. Around 500 wounded were left behind in Avdiivka. In any other army generals are court marshaled for such command. Syrsky wanted to turn Avdiivka in Bakhmut 2.0. Zelenskyy and his minions are simply incapable of learning from past blunders. Even NYT noticed in desperation: "Some American officials say the fight in Bakhmut has become something of an obsession for Mr. Zelensky and his military leaders." Bakhmut was a slaughter which was entirely Zelenskyy folly as Stalingrad was entirely Hitler's folly. Zelenskyy just for media hype wasted on average 500 troops daily (total tally was at least 51 000 KIA) in Bakhmut meat grinder even when all escape routes came under Russian fire control and this debacle turned into a sheer slaughter of Ukrainian troops. But obsessed with Bakhmut Zelenskyy didn't stop even at that. Since May 20 when Russians took Bakhmut General Syrsky (Zelenskyy minion) launched wave after wave of suicidal counterattacks failing to retake a single village near Bakhmut (parts of villages Andriivka and Kleshiivka are still controlled by Russians and it's driving Zelenskyy nuts) while wasting thousands upon thousands of hapless Ukrainian conscripts. This ongoing obsessive lunacy that makes zero military sense is simply astounding . Avdiivka is another Zelenskyy obsession. Russians established fire control over all escape routes from Avdiivka. Russians even mined escape routes. At this point it turned into a slaughter of Ukrainian troops which are sent to Avdiivka in huge numbers (yeah, Zelenskyy and his minions are that dumb even after Bakhmut debacle) . Dnipro crossings are another example of Zelenskyy lunatic behavior . Just for media hype Ukrainian command got Ukrainian troops into a small fire sack on Russian bank. It keeps sending troops into this meat grinder without even bothering with the evacuation of the wounded. It's nuts. Zelenskyy is the gift that keeps on giving for Russians.

@wildchameleon7 5 ай бұрын

Talk about a gift. How many years to take Adiivka?

@dimas3829 5 ай бұрын

@@wildchameleon7 2 years under Zalushniy, a couple of weeks under Syrsky, duh.

@wildchameleon7 5 ай бұрын

@@dimas3829 wrong. Assault by the Russians started in 2014. It's been ten years to take what's now rubble. What are the russians going to do with it apart from ethnic cleansing?