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The Spoils of Annwfn with Dr Gwilym Morus-Baird

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Celtic Source

Celtic Source

Күн бұрын

Continuing with this short series on Welsh Arthurian poems, this talk takes a look at Preideu Annwfyn (The Spoils of Annwfn), one of the better known poems from the medieval Book of Taliesin. Like many other Taliesin poems from this period, it is a strange, ambiguous and multilayered text, and although many commentators have attempted to pin its ultimate meaning down, it remains a largely mysterious poem. In this talk we touch on at least some of the more definite things that can be said about it, and dwell in the mystery of all the things that can't!
Correction: the Historia Brittonum was written down in the 8 hundreds not the eighth century! 828 is the general consensus.
Courses on Celtic myth and folklore: celticsource.o...

Пікірлер: 33
@wolfevanbrussel2848
@wolfevanbrussel2848 2 жыл бұрын
Really enjoyed this, brings so many strands together. Thankyou!
@KrisHughes
@KrisHughes 8 ай бұрын
This has got to be one of my favourite Celtic Source videos, Gwil! I'm always recommending it to people.
@CelticSource
@CelticSource 7 ай бұрын
awesome, thanks!
@KitoTodd
@KitoTodd 2 жыл бұрын
Very glad to see you back!👍I learn a lot from watching these videos💚
@sarahhashish1784
@sarahhashish1784 6 ай бұрын
I read Legendborn and Bloodmarked which you helped prepare and translate Welsh for! You’re doing amazing work, diolch!
@CelticSource
@CelticSource 5 ай бұрын
You're very welcome, yes those are great YA novels, a 3rd on the way!
@hyperdimensionallight4931
@hyperdimensionallight4931 2 жыл бұрын
Thank you professor! I enjoy your show :)
@CelticSource
@CelticSource 2 жыл бұрын
You're welcome, but not so much of the professor! I'm a humble doctor :)
@spindoggytheexplorer2915
@spindoggytheexplorer2915 Жыл бұрын
Awesome video! Thanks for all that!
@CelticSource
@CelticSource Жыл бұрын
My pleasure
@tiegemccian2409
@tiegemccian2409 2 жыл бұрын
Hello Dr! Great to see you posting wonderful videos again! Around the 11:30 mark you discuss the ambiguity about what exactly is revolving; the music or the fort. I agree that the image of a revolving fort is intriguing, and I think a strong case can be made for it. The German Arthurian tale Diu Crône (early 13th c) includes an otherworldly revolving castle, surrounded by decapitated heads on stakes. Evidently, a 15th c French Arthurian romance also has a revolving castle similarly removed from the rest of the world by various obstacles and challenges. One would have to suspect that these stories descend from more original Welsh ones. Also, you say later Taliesin poetry invokes the otherworld as a kind of spiral? Bizarre, what’s that all about?
@CelticSource
@CelticSource 2 жыл бұрын
Hi Tiege, "The German Arthurian tale Diu Crône (early 13th c) includes an otherworldly revolving castle, surrounded by decapitated heads on stakes." Charming! Yes, there are other versions also, such as in the Irish tale Fled Bricrend, so not sure we can say it's specifically of Welsh origin.
@tiegemccian2409
@tiegemccian2409 2 жыл бұрын
@@CelticSource thank you for the reply! I just hope the far flung connections between Arthur and revolving castles point to a Welsh (or Celtic) source.
@user-if4nx2jn8r
@user-if4nx2jn8r 2 жыл бұрын
I love this poem, I think it demonstrates how the more organized religions didn't have the market cornered on interesting motifs and metaphysical thought. Gwair is a particularly interesting figure to me, the fact that he's described as the first prisoner of the otherworld makes me wonder what exactly he did to find himself in that state, particularly because it suggests he might play a significant role in the bardic lineage. It's also somewhat surprising that bards could insult the clergy in poems performed before the court, I would think that would be taken as blasphemy, but perhaps it suggests an acknowledgement of the fallibility of priesthoods.
@CelticSource
@CelticSource 2 жыл бұрын
I think there's a distinction between the clergy themselves and the common belief in Christianity. The bards and clergy were probably were competing priest classes, both attempting to preserve access to and influence over the nobility, although beyond the Book of Taliesin, there isn't much else to back that claim up.
@user-if4nx2jn8r
@user-if4nx2jn8r 2 жыл бұрын
@@CelticSource Thanks for replying. I suppose I find it surprising because there's often a tendency to view messengers as unimpeachable if you believe in the message.
@darcy8567
@darcy8567 7 ай бұрын
Dr. Morus-Baird, thank you for drawing so heady a brew from the cask of Welsh mythology. I thirst no more! Sir, I have been wanting to find information on a particular goddess, Aeronwen, and have been disappointed to discover how little She is portrayed. Amazingly, Aeronwen doesn't seem the type of deity one simply overlooks! Correct me if I am wrong, but is She not the Welsh equivalent of the Irish Morrigan? Dr. Morus-Baird, can you point me in any direction, or to any publications concerning Aeronwen? I thank you for your consideration.
@CelticSource
@CelticSource 7 ай бұрын
I think this is a modern invention unfortunately. There's no reference to an Aeronwen in any of our early sources. Aerfen, yes, perhaps, Aeronwen, highly unlikely.
@debe3838
@debe3838 2 жыл бұрын
I have understood much of it a little differently, but then Im not Welsh and it is ambiguous as you said. I suppose I have understood this to be like climbing the "dark tower" that all noble knights dare not mention, because as well as rescuing the sacred maiden at the top of the tower, they first needed to pass through the level which housed their deepest or darkest or worst fear also known as "the hearts rest" which I assume relates to the heart chakra of eastern based spiritual ways. So I was wondering if perhaps the Fort of Petrification, is descriptive of being petrified with fear at facing their deep or darkest fear? Just a thought, I am by no means an expert, I just have had Arthurian type dreams on and off since childhood, thus my personal fascination, which is possibly similar to others inspired to try to understand it. I assume my mum must have told me a childhood version of Arthur and the Knights of the round table when very little, and this opened the way for my imagination and idealism of that era to be archetypally represented in my dreams. I also had one nightmare in the same vain, which I still vividly remember to this day, which was actually quite ridiculous and didnt really make sense and although it does make a little more sense now Im in my 60s, still not quite fully enough to say I truly understand it yet. I am very much enjoying your channel, the food for thought and open mindedness it encourages. ETA, as I read what I have written here, I had an ahah moment, that relates that nightmare with what is happening now. Isnt it strange how things seem to suddenly make sense and fall into place, just in the nick of time? hahahah!
@evanialee4888
@evanialee4888 2 жыл бұрын
What are the source readings for the Brindled Ox...what did you say before you mentioned Triads, Brindled Ox one of the three prime Ox'en of the island of Britan?..want to make sure I have the spelling write for looking into it futher. Thank you Evania Morris from New Zealand. Also just want to know more about this topic in general what is this legendary creatture used by the Triads as one of the three principal Oxen of the Island of Britain. Find it interesting that it is reported that Willlam Tyndale , in the course of a dispute with a promminent clergyman who disparaged this proposal, he said, "If God spare my life, ere many years I will cause a boy that driveth the plow to know more of the Scriptures than thou dost.
@mikesummers-smith4091
@mikesummers-smith4091 Жыл бұрын
Could Caer Rigor allude to a petrifying well? They're obviously magical. As other possible allusions, calcite is glassy, and a calcified body might poetically be said to be chained.
@jamescarruthers1967
@jamescarruthers1967 2 жыл бұрын
I know some of the forts have various possible translations and I'd love to see a comparison with respective confidences for each. Caer Rigor as the "petrification" fort is the one that has always particularly grated in my head. I don't like that it uses a Latin derivation; I know some real world British toponyms do have Latin origins, but surely a Welsh otherworldly place in a Welsh language poem should have a Welsh name. And the end result just seems like an unlikely name for a fort as well. I have seen suggestions that it might be related to an old Celtic word something like Rig (king), and a kingly fort just sounds altogether more likely...? I also wonder if there's any link to Camlan as another Arthurian pyrrhic victory, where similar language is used about the number of men that returned / survived...?
@jamescarruthers1967
@jamescarruthers1967 2 жыл бұрын
Also, glad to see you making new videos :)
@CelticSource
@CelticSource 2 жыл бұрын
the other possible meaning Haycock gives is 'frigor' meaning cold. Latin is a component in the evolution of medieval Welsh, and Taliesin does quote Latin phrases and words elsewhere in The Book, so it's not that out of place to have a name like this in his corpus. It may not have been a common name either, but a descrptive name in this poem, seeing as there's no other attestation to its use.
@Qu0thTheRaven
@Qu0thTheRaven 2 жыл бұрын
i see alot of references to the otherworld and to the celestial realm of starry heaven and all those old beliefs that connect the two.
@nothingnothing3557
@nothingnothing3557 2 жыл бұрын
Maybe the Glass Fort is synonymous with the Fomorians' last stronghold where they were driven to by the Tuatha De Danann? I don't know, there is a slight Irish flavor to this poem. Thanks for all you do. 😃
@CelticSource
@CelticSource 2 жыл бұрын
Indeed there is, and there may well be some subtle strands of cross-cultural influence. The magic cauldron is certainly closely associated with Ireland in the second branch.
@hiccacarryer3624
@hiccacarryer3624 2 жыл бұрын
...and/or Ynys wydryn as Glastonbury in Somerset?
@jacobparry177
@jacobparry177 2 жыл бұрын
Yn nhermau gweithiau fel Preiddiau Annwfn, un o'm hoff bethau am y Gogynfeirdd yw'i allu i ddefnyddio iaith amwys i lunio hanesion a chwedlau sy'n diddorol ac yn cadw'i gynulleidfa'n meddwl am y cudd-ystyron sy'n sibrwd i'r Cymry (a phwy arall bynnag sy'n diddori ) am eu gorffennol... heb ddiflasu nhw, fel mae'r cerddi crefyddol yn wneud (i mi, n'de)👀 Ta waeth, mae'n hwyl ceisio dyfalu ystyr rhannau amwysach y cerddi 'ma. Ymholiad braidd ar hap, ond ydach chi'n ymwybodol o bobol heddiw sy'n perfformio neu'n adrodd hen gerddi, fel Preiddiau Annwfn, mewn ynganiad a modd perfformio'r 12g? Fel mae David Crystal a'i fab yn wneud hefo Shakespeare, e.e.
@CelticSource
@CelticSource 2 жыл бұрын
Helo Jacob, bu rai ohonom yn ceisio ailgreu datgeiniaeth draddodiadol gyda'r ymchwilydd Peter Greenhill tua degawd yn ôl. Doedde ni ddim yn dilyn ynganiad Cymraeg Canol o raid ond dyna'r unig gynllun rwy'n ymwybodol ohono.
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