The Story of SHOGUN Seasons 2 and 3

Рет қаралды 11,771

Күн бұрын

What comes next for Shogun? With seasons 2 and 3 on the way, let's dive in and discuss where the series could possibly go!
Playlist with all my episode reviews for Shogun (2024): • Shogun (2024)
Interview with the Historical Advisor for Shogun: • Shogun (2024) Historic...
Review of the 1980 Adaptation: • Shogun (1980) | Samura...
My thoughts on the book: • I Finally Read Shogun ...
Timestamps:
Intro 0:00
Season 2 3:31
Season 3 9:23
Conclusion 13:31
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Music:
"Eastern Thought" by Kevin MacLeod is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 license. creativecommons.org/licenses/...
Source: incompetech.com/music/royalty-...
Artist: incompetech.com/
Artwork and Images:
Images taken from the show.
Classical art, which in most cases can be considered public domain.
Art from Osprey Publications.
Other modern artist renditions and photos, if you see your work in this video please contact me so that I can give you proper credit!
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Social Media:
Facebook: / theshogunateyoutube
Twitter: / shogunatethe
Support the channel on Patreon! www.patreon.com/theshogunatey...
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@nont18411 3 күн бұрын

While I think that this outline is a great idea, I still think season 2 should have been “Tai Pan” and season 3 “Gai Jin” because both of them already have finished source materials. Plus, I would love to see Sanada Hiroyuki reprised his role as Yoshii Toranaga but this time, this Toranaga represents Tokugawa Yoshinobu which would be a nice parallel that he plays both Toranaga the founding shogun and Toranaga the last shogun. And his calm demeanor suits a pacifist Yoshinobu more than a warmongering Ieyasu.

@dagdamor1 3 күн бұрын

John Blackthorne directing the fateful volleys with pinpoint accuracy to galvanize the pivotal defection with minimal collateral damage would be poetic.

@bkyguy 3 күн бұрын

You came up with some great ideas for seasons 2 and 3. I have seen a version of the Osaka Castle campaigns in the Aoi Tokugawa drama but It would be so interesting if they would actually cover the Shimabara campaign as i havent seen a good movie or series about this. Keep up the great work!

@grandmufftwerkin9037 3 күн бұрын

It's really a shame that they didn't start the series with three seasons in mind, so that the novel could receive the full adaptation it deserves. I am uncertain that without the novel as backing material that the writers will be able to pull off writing two more seasons on their own.

@sweepauto 3 күн бұрын

Ya that would be cool . Who knows what the conversations where when they first starting the show but I would not be surprised if the show runners where told they where only getting one and one session only. Then it got so huge the mangers want to keep money/bonus machine keep running.

@JimTempleman 3 күн бұрын

I'm not sure that showing the Japanese Shogunate crushing Christianity in the third season is such a good idea. It's going to be really hard to portray the flavor of Christianity in Japan at that time, as well as Buddhism, Confucianism, and Shintoism. I'm afraid that many people will be unhappy with the portrayals. The movie "Silence" was able to pull it off, but that reached a rather limited audience. Personally, I'd love to see it done well, but it could be a real powder-keg if the different interest groups started to take offense. I've heard that it is impolite to bring up religion at casual meetings in Japan with a mixed attendance, and there is probably a good reason for doing so.

@bkyguy 2 күн бұрын

it may be impolite, but that is what actually occurred in Japanese history so why not cover it.

@JimTempleman Күн бұрын

@@bkyguy I just don't think Hollywood, in its current manifestation, is up to the task of doing it justice. And if they cannot do it well, I'd prefer for them to wait until someone came along (like Scorsese with his "Silence") to do it properly. I'd like to see it as close to the true history as we can get, but that wasn't what we got in either of the two made for television series of Shogun. The moment they start dumbing it down, due to the ignorance of the film makers, or their desire to please their own modern sensibilities, it will create something truly misleading. And I'm sick & tired of film makers who prefer to rewrite history to suit themselves.

@Rhapsodyas 3 күн бұрын

I really like your suggestion. Second season shluld start with the battle of Sekigahara, maybe Ishido could survive by a loyal attendant disguiaing as him somehow or even saved by a Toranaga retainer

@nont18411 3 күн бұрын

The scene when one of the heir’s retainers said “The Toranaga send their regards.” then stabbed Hideyori in the heart before slashing the throat of the crying Ochiba, I cried a lot. But seriously, I started to see the red flags for the future seasons when the show decided to turn Nagakado and Hiromatsu into Oberyn Martell and Ned Stark, respectively. And I believe that in the future seasons, they will add more of this “Game of Thrones-y” element to the story and if we should learn something from GoT is that the show went downhill right away once they ran out of source material.

@MarcM47 3 күн бұрын

knowing about the success that Shogun had before finishing the 1st season makes me wonder if they would have still killed Yabushige. He was such a great character. Love the idea of doing the siege of osaka before 1614-1615 and changing a few things. There is a lot that they can do here and i'm excited to see where it goes!

@BuddhaBrook 3 күн бұрын

I agree with your idea of what the seasons can hold I think: Season 2 would be everything leading up to the battle of Sekigahara. So like the planning, some few small.skrimishes that irl Tokugawa had to face such as grabbing the kanto region and putting down the hojo before the battle . Then season 3 would be the finale, same as you said, the battle , loss of allies. Usurping the heir, and finally ending with ishidos death , maybe a little of Osaka siege . And maybe some stuff. But I hope it goes smoothly..as someone who loves the warring states period, I hope it isn't fumbled

@katerbiller04 3 күн бұрын

My only addition would be to add a minor character into the mix, Musashi

@JimTempleman 3 күн бұрын

@@katerbiller04 Only if you want him to steel the show.

@katerbiller04 3 күн бұрын

@JimTempleman I'm reading the Eji Yoshikawa book as a contrast to what is going on in Shōgun. It is really compelling, and I really don't think that in seasons 2 and 3, we can't have him appear in Edo at an audience of Tokugawa.

@JimTempleman 3 күн бұрын

@@katerbiller04 That would be fine, but everybody wants to see him duel. Why don't they just go off & make a version of Eji Yoshikawa's "Taiko: An Epic Novel of War and Glory in Feudal Japan" in its full glory!

@katerbiller04 3 күн бұрын

@@JimTempleman Thanks for the recommendation for my next read.

@TanukiDigital 3 күн бұрын

More seasons is a bad idea. I agree with you completely.

@TalesofDawnandDusk 3 күн бұрын

Having spent the past couple of weeks (and will at least spend one more in tbe future) translating the story of Taira no Masakado's rebellion from the Konjaku Monogatari Shu, I'm over here hoping that the success of the franchise leads into dramatic retellings of that and other tales from the Heian Period. Hopefully these 2nd and 3rd seasons are good enough to justify something along those lines.

@jacobdarling1524 3 күн бұрын

I think this is an amazing opportunity for the showrunners. The book’s plot may have ended but Japanese history does not. There are tons of big historical events like the siege of Osaka, Christian revolts and the banishment of foreigners. Plus both in book and show it feels like the story is unfinished. We never get to see the battle at Sekigahara nor see the ultimate fates of Toranaga or Blackthorn. And both led long and interesting lives. The fact that the book’s plot line has already been covered opens up room for the creators to Shogun to craft an original narrative and take more liberties without worrying about strict adherence to source material. I’m stoked for this.

@KarlKarsnark 3 күн бұрын

Then they need to write an original story with an original title, rather than ripping off an already well-known and beloved book.

@theGreenKnightXXVI 3 күн бұрын

I think the 2nd season should be the Sekigahara campaign. Toranaga's description of the climatic battle to Yabushige was ultimately aspirational; Toranaga still needs to carry out the plan. This would give plenty of opportunities for the narrative to jump between Edo and Osaka, where we could watch Ishido and his subordinates (maybe introduce Shima Sakon?). We could get a subplot of a Tokugawa Hidetada character getting held up at Ueda castle too. I think Season 3 could be a time jump and culminate in a siege at Osaka. I like the idea of introducing Sanada Yukimura in Season 2, so this would be his opportunity to get a more prominent role .

@clibinarium 3 күн бұрын

I concur; this is pretty much what I thought when I heard that there'd be two more seasons.

@mkele2339 3 күн бұрын

season 2. prequel season 3. sequel

@EVAATfield 3 күн бұрын

I’d rather they just make a multi season Nobunaga inspired prequel series.

@rdf4315 3 күн бұрын

I can definitely see them not doing that ever especially after the whole black samurai fiasco the last few months, I think what would be far more interesting is them doing a season or more on hideyoshi especially since he is the only foot soldier to rise up through the ranks and become a Shogun, he totally unite the land unlike nobunaga and lead a invasion into Korea where one of his generals with March all the way to the borders of China, that sounds far more interesting to me.

@NachtKaiser666 3 күн бұрын

I think introducing a romanced version of the Sanada clan as rivals to Toranaga's power (culminating with the charge and almost murder of Toranaga at Osaka Castle) could definitely bring some intrigue and fill the hole left by Ishido (if they decide to kill him) Of course i find some humor in Hiroyuki Sanada playing a fictional version of Tokugawa Ieyasu facing the Sanada clan 😂

@nobuyumi8029 2 күн бұрын

"Simply because, HOW?!" ^This. Exactly this. I know we've discussed it in private already but really. How? 😂

@Vanic00 3 күн бұрын

What they could do, and what I would like to see done, is Season 2 basically the church betrays Mariko's deal, and basically all the stuff with the church that was in the book, and the 1980 mini series, could be used for a season 2, along with the Siege of Osaka. Say like, Lady Ochiba ploted with the church, and now faces the consequences. Season 3, could take a slightly more historical approach with the church, going into hiding and becoming and underground organization, and creating and launching the Shimabara Rebellion, with and possibly elderly Blackthorn using his ship, and cannons, along with the Shogun forcing the merchants to aid Blackthorn, in destroying the rebels in their castle. The series could then wrap up with Blackthorn passing away, unable now in death, to stop the new Shogun, Toranaga's grandson, from closing Japan off from the rest of the world, and Blackthorn's children, literally blending in and disappearing into the crowd on the streets of Edo, symbolizing how history losses track of his kids after the closing off of Japan. Lol, I'm glad to see we had a similar idea of how the story should go from here, love your work, thanks for the enjoyment.

@historyprofiles 3 күн бұрын

I personally think they will cover Ieyasu's (toronaga's) ascent to become Shogun I think it will also lady Ochiba (Yodo-Dono) V Ieyasu, so the Toyotomi and Tokugawa clans against each other. Season 3 could be the seige of Osaka - blackthorne reallistically should be turned into a sideline character for this, but for the sake of the show I think they will keep in him. Seige of Osaka will need an insanely high budget though should be ineteresting if thats the path they want to go down!

@katerbiller04 3 күн бұрын

I read the novel after watching this interpretation. I found the novel really is more deeply layered than the series . The writers chose to sculpt it into something that is a bit of a paradox to me; a very well written, directed visual spectacle. Yet, at the same time, an adaptation that was far too compact due to the initial limit to only one season. The series did an excellent job highlighting how Touronaga was using the elements of the Art of War as a master strategist. If they do a "flashback/ prequel" season, there is much more material in the novel that could be introduced into it.

@Varangoi 3 күн бұрын

Two of the biggest letdowns in season one was that they didn't use the cannons and they didn't attack the fort in Macau. I love that you gave us plausible reasons for this to happen afterall in the next seasons.

@edankriss141 3 күн бұрын

I especially agree they probably left Ishida’s fate vague because of a hope to keep the actor. Good move, I also loved his character. The one person I REALLY can’t wait to see again is a developed Buntaro. I actually found his arc uniquely compelling, in a raw, multi-faceted way.

@-RONNIE 3 күн бұрын

Thank you for the review when I binged the show it was semi decent I just wish there was more action I would say

@soulphisto79 2 күн бұрын

This was an interesting premise. I agree that the series should end as a one off, but am also excited by the opportunity we have to see more Japanese history inspired stories on major television. That said, I would posit that a prequel season setting up the first Shogunate, and thus Toranaga's ancestral lineage and legitimization of his ascent. This would be an opportunity to explore the Gempei War era, and all the intrigue around it. But that may just be a whole other series for the future.

@bathhatingcat8626 3 күн бұрын

Do another in the Asian saga- like tai pan

@kongthemayor5481 3 күн бұрын

This whole comment section is a giant echo chamber

@williamsuper213 3 күн бұрын

Sadly, like the show runners on Game of Thrones who continued beyond George RR Martin’s writings, I will be surprised by the story they come up with; and the story with the lousy plot changes that they wrote from the original, the casting decisions, and even shooting in dark Vancouver instead of Japan. They should hire you since you at least great appreciation for the book and the original series.

@AlfonsoTheTraitor 3 күн бұрын

I’ll be honest they mentioned the battle of Sekigahara in the last episode is season 1 . I would love to see a What took place leading up to the battle and a historical blow by blow account of the battle it self for season two. Season 3 would be the aftermath and the siege of Osaka. That’s what I would like to see.

@LyynGoogle 3 күн бұрын

I don’t even think ishido has to be dead or ahistorically left alive at the begining of season 2. I think the second season can pick up where the book story ends. Sekigahara is a battle, yes, but it is also an entire campaign. The attack on fushimi... the siege of ueda... the date attacking the uesugi... kato kiyomasa hating mitsunari enough to be won over to the tokugawa... the mori getting pissed off enough to basically sit out the main battle... Tokugaws orcestrating all that... how is that not enough for making at least one entire sekigahara season?

@FelixstoweFoamForge 3 күн бұрын

I liked it, Thought it caught the spirit of the book pretty well.. Especially Blackthorn/Adams. Hope they don't feck the next seasons up.

@Reynevan100 3 күн бұрын

Prequel season - maybe focused on Hideyoshi, maybe even touching on Nobunaga... And a sequel season - Sekigahara shown with detail, and siege(s) of Osaka?

@nejiefelipe 3 күн бұрын

i got anoyed by the minor details of the show especially at the end but overral im excited for the new seasons, the cinematography during the entire season was on point and they even conculst expecialists and try to do the best theu can as antony showed us... im happy for them on the popularity the show got and hope to see more samurai culture briought to us.

@dannygreenland4853 3 күн бұрын

Sounds like an interesting plot who knows what happens. My choice is to start season 2 with the battle of Sekigahara and maybe have it over 2 episodes, I am not sure whether either end season 2 with the Winter battle of Osaka or lead up to it with season 3 ending with the Summer battle at the end of season 3 I really don't know.

@rztrzt 2 күн бұрын

I've read the book many times, I probably watch the 80's serie 2-3 times a year. This new series was ok-ísh, I tried watching it a second time but did not get past episode 2.

@willmendoza8498 3 күн бұрын

Loved the show, including most of the changes, though I do agree some parts were rushed. All this sounds like a plausible and potentially satisfying continuation

@kaidorade1317 3 күн бұрын

I’m loving the audiobook so I’m not going to complain about this show getting two more seasons

@antoniopereira9963 2 күн бұрын

Somehow Ishido return..needs to be a meme

@JerryShugars 3 күн бұрын

Maybe we actually get to finally see Sekigahara.

@MCorpReview 2 күн бұрын

Blackthorn raises a navy against toronaga 😂and proclaims the heir shogun 😂!

@user-pr8gx3vb9h 3 күн бұрын

Season 2 and three will cover the rest of the book and what happened after.

@omegalover2145 3 күн бұрын

I bet this guy is a fucking riot at parties.

@TheShogunate 3 күн бұрын

Depends on the party

@thomasschmidt1836 3 күн бұрын

Seeing how they rushed the story, or condensed it in an overly simplified way, I would be happy if they let sleeping dogs lie. Obviously they grossly underestimated the potential of their production (as is evident by their scripting the rush through the story) but also the reaction of the viewing audience. Had they gambled early on, I could easilynsee a 3 season offering that stuck closer to or integrated more closely with historical facts etc. But as it is and even with your well contemplated options, I see the next 2 seasons as filled with flashback sequences to insert the things they could have and should have done the first time. All the, speculated flashback, filler sequences will only muddy up the story and even further alter the story. All the great costumes and production attention to detail will be the only thing they can rely upon to determine the future success of this itteration of the story. They really should just leave it alone if they aren't going to start from scratch and do it better. Sadly, I have little hope this will be aworthy project😢

@matsubozu0909 Күн бұрын

なんでロックリー先生の動画消したの？

@shirayasha 2 күн бұрын

Season 1 being solid but ultimately disappointing is the best way to put it. idk how I feel about a season 2 and 3. It all just feels botched at this point. Either leave it alone at season 1, or should have planned or left it open for more seasons in the first place.

@nomad8723 3 күн бұрын

While I enjoyed the series, I think the abridgement omitted too much to do a sequel. I think it would have been wiser to end the story at a logical midpoint and hope it did well (which it did) so you could lobby for second season. While I understand thats a much harder pitch for producers, I personally would rather have a complete half of a story, well told, than what basically ammounts to (an admittedly very compelling) summary. Ultimately, it does detract from the conclusive moments. For example, the book has many instances of levity, amusing interludes and develped side characters that really aided the narrative in the end. In something like LoTR, where the prose is often very longwinded, the story may be condensed and the worldbuilding and context done visually. The issue (regards abrigement) with Shogun is that most of the worldbuilding and context is done through characters and dialogue, with very little in the way of descriptive, 3rd person passages, very similar to Dune.

@alexc8209 3 күн бұрын

Ive just realised the next season will be about the mother of the emperor and how she rises to rule Japan and also it will talk about the Geishas and how they are actually all Ninjas and they will rise to power and rule Japan and about the clan of Black African Samurai and how they rise to power and rule Japan but step aside gallantly for the women because they are also Gay black men and choose love over power. The main enemies will be the christian missionaires and Blackthorns twin brother 'whitethorn' and his firends who will be evil. There will be no battles except when a female kicks ass and there will be alot of talking and nearly kissing. Perfect American TV.

@therealunclevanya 3 күн бұрын

I was about to write this very comment, lol

@JimTempleman 3 күн бұрын

Yes, but you've left out Godzilla Minus One, who will come to renew balance to the farce.

@wepunchdragons3733 3 күн бұрын

They already said there will be no more episodes....

@TheShogunate 3 күн бұрын

Yeah they did. Then they decided to reverse that decision oddly enough.

@wepunchdragons3733 3 күн бұрын

@@TheShogunate Did they now? Thank you for this tidbit. *goes to research.

@michaelbird9148 3 күн бұрын

I like your ideas for the story. It ultimately redeems the issue of an underdeveloped relationship between Blackthorne and Torranaga.

@useyowords9745 3 күн бұрын

First time we see his army bested by………not rocks

@midtwnscott 3 күн бұрын

I thought I was one of the few who was a little disappointed by season one. They didn't stay as true to the book as I would have liked and it was written more for a Japanese audience rather than a Western one and that really changed the dynamic. In the book, Blacthorne was a MAJOR character in the book but this version placed him in more of a supporting role to Toranaga. It was well done but disappointing. Hope season 2 and 3 are better and they get rid of that damn cool filter they used.

@Metalgear195 18 сағат бұрын

Sir, I wish to appeal to your Yasuke video you took down. Imagine someone recorded Albert Einstein and Oppenheimer having an in depth chat about nuclear physics and then uploaded it to the the internet years later. How precious would that video be to historians and how major of a loss would that be if it were to become lost to time? Now I may be exaggerating my point a bit here, I know this subject matter is more niche, but you understand what I'm saying here right? There is value here that only you can control if it is forever lost or not. All I'm saying is that if this video ever becomes available again, I'm writing down notes; I am NOT taking it for granted. And just so you know, I already write down notes off of your videos and others', I love this subject matter with a passion, just like you!

@TheShogunate 15 сағат бұрын

I am considering uploading it to patreon perhaps.

@Unknown31212 3 күн бұрын

Now they are doing it just for the money, rarely does that work out.

@KarlKarsnark 3 күн бұрын

Just look how drab, monochrome and lifeless all the shots are in this adaptation. It's not only historically inaccurate, but it's painfully boring to look at. Also, why is there HAZE and/or SMOG in EVERY single frame? It's ugly and just plain bizarre. The "Dark Ages" were never dark in Europe, much less in Japan. Not to mention the fact that the real Tokugawa was a very powerful and charismatic leader, while this "Toranaga" (li. "Tiger chief") is more meek than a sick kitten.

@shiroamakusa8075 3 күн бұрын

If it's good it's good. If it's terrible I can point and laugh at its terribleness. If it's meh I can watch something else. So I will be the winner no matter what.

@ThisPineappleLife 3 күн бұрын

Now that is a good attitude! Lol

@HeathGleason 3 күн бұрын

I couldnt get past episode 4. I gave up. Tney just wanted to make game of thrones. I just didnt want that.

@JimTempleman 3 күн бұрын

Yes, but let's face it, the actual history was a true "Game of Thrones." Not that there weren't others at different places & times.

@HeathGleason 3 күн бұрын

@@JimTempleman yeah, war of roses. Obviously there's room for extrapolation here. But chasing modern tone and trend and forsaking kind of the identity of the series, and kind of missing the mark with the choreography and weaponry aspects of the samurai, it just ringed hollow. It didn't feel like there was much narrative tension. You didn't really get a chance to breathe with concepts. That's actually something house of the dragon does well, and Shogun on Hulu just glosses over so many key moments for characterization that I genuinely think reduces the series at its core beyond the political intrigue, to just another standard gritty reboot. Idk. I never finished it, so I can't say anything absolutely. But I don't have much interest to anymore either. Especially seeing that they're now going beyond the novel which will, in conjunction with the historical inaccuracies currently present, will probably lead to some unhinged stuff.

@JimTempleman 3 күн бұрын

@@HeathGleason I see your point. James Clavell was my favorite (non-SF) author back then, and the modern Shogun didn't do him justice. When left to their own devices, we'll end up with something even further away from the edge he put on things. Spending time as a POW in a Japanese prison camp in WWII gave him a rather unique perspective on their culture. (Which the modern Japanese don't get, any more.)

@nont18411 3 күн бұрын

How could the future season justify the existence of Sanada Yukimura if they ever want to make the setting around the Siege of Osaka? In real life, Yukimura didn’t show up at Sekigahara because he was too busy stalling Tokugawa Hidetada and Honda Masanobu (Yabu) at Ueda castle. In Shogun, there’s no splitting of Eastern army into two contingents via Tokaido and Nakasendo. It’s just one huge army and the Western army chose to unanimously betray Ishido which caused Ishido to be outnumbered and lost the war. If they decided to add Yukimura as a main character in season 2, that means Yukimura, who’s very loyal to Hideyori and also wasn’t busy fighting anyone during Sekigahara, decided not to help Ishido fight against Toranaga, who tried to usurp the throne and then he decided to fight Toranaga 15 years later when it barely matter anymore. And if they ignore Yukimura altogether while still keep the Osaka plotline, how could it be the Siege of Osaka without him? He’s a main character of this conflict.

@shiroamakusa8075 3 күн бұрын

Buddy, this is historical fiction, so why would any of that matter? If they want "Sakana Tsukigura" present at Sekigahara, he will be there. If you want to complain about historical accuracy, remember that this series does not feature Ieyasu Tokugawa but Yoshii Toranaga.

@nont18411 3 күн бұрын

@@shiroamakusa8075 Sakana Tsukigura is such a funny name😂

@Ether1312 3 күн бұрын

As long as yasuke doesn't show up.

@4pace 3 күн бұрын

That wouldn’t be historically accurate. Yasuke was prevalent during Oda Nobunaga's time as a Daimyo. Though I’m sure you’re mentioning that because you care about historical accuracy right?

@DionysianLovecraftian 3 күн бұрын

I hope it doesn't get more seasons but when they air I'll give them a watch anyway just for complition's sake

@hydra8845 3 күн бұрын

They already confirmed a season 2

@DionysianLovecraftian 3 күн бұрын

@@hydra8845 Yeah but I don't like that very much. I find the decisions they made for series rather questionable

@ThisPineappleLife 3 күн бұрын

Hope it’s awesome for whoever is excited about this. I personally don’t like when they do things like this so I’m good. Shogun has been told. Do something else. Maybe Tai Pan idk

@TrumanBurbankFE 3 күн бұрын

Please, don't butcher this classic by James Clavell more with more shitty writing and embarrassing John Blackthorn actor. Without Mariko, you don't have a show.

@RaikoH6644 3 күн бұрын

Repeat of Westworld, no thx

@deathdoor 3 күн бұрын

How about "nothing happens"? Didn't liked this enough to want another season.

@KarlKarsnark 3 күн бұрын

There is no "Shogun 2: Electric Boogaloo", much less a part 3, any more than there is a "sequel" to "Romeo & Juliet". This is just more "Modern Hollywood" buying a well-known name and story, then changing everything about it in the hopes of maximal economic exploitation. The first season was dumb, dull, boring, visually monotonous and utterly forgettable, unlike the original TV mini-series and book itself. This is just a cash-grab for gullible idiots who don't read.