linktr.ee/focustripp

Kind of like my 12.5" 6.5 grendel. A bit more power, but a bit more weight.

It seems like 6.5 CM is similar to 5.56 for barrel length. Somehow the government set a regulation that was reasonable for these specific calibers, hey even a broken clock is right twice a day.

A good small frame AR-10 with a 14.5” stainless barrel. A good 0 to 1000 yard gun. 5.56 with 77gr is already a great 0 to 500 gun. I love this concept and I’m hoping to see if more and more

For anyone who cares to know, the hornady superformance line of ammo is a great way to compensate shorter barrels and their loss of velocity. The 150 grain sst out of my 16” 308 bolt gun was averaging somewhere in the 2730fps range

I said screw velocity and started running a 14.5 308 years ago. Works very well for what I use it for and since I’ll likely never need to go out past 400 yards still brings the heat. There are obviously better chamberings but I had 308 aplenty at the time and it stacks Barnes 168gr TTSX

VIGIL GANG. Love my criterion 16 inch rifle gas hybrid. Just under 10 pounds with a fully loaded 25 round lancer. The dissipator you sent me is awesome and every bit as accurate, like a little brotato to the 6.5. Creedmoor is the same price as 308 here and there's more of it. Testing a 10.53308 kak "pistol" today, can't wait for the hilarity.

Mass Effect music. Awesome

There it is! Thanks for putting this out already, I've been considering a 16" or 14.5" Creed, and while I'm still not completely sure on which one, I've certainly been assured that it isn't a completely ridiculously hair-brained idea.

I have been going over the merits of a 6.5/6.8 14.5" rifle for months. 6.8SPC kept coming up as part of a URGI-6.8. This video was awesome, thank you.

Sure, LMT “has it out”, and if you can find a leprechaun, you can easily pick one up at your local gun store

Thanks for putting this out there, answered a few questions I’ve been kicking around for a lil bit now

As long as 6.5 Sneedmore is nearly 2x as expensive as .308 near me, it will never make sense to me.

Great info. Love hearing the theory and seeing some of the validation points behind it. It is hard to beat an accurate, lighter gun that does what .30 cal guns do with less recoil.

MRGG-S program produced the Geissele with a 20" barreled 6.5 creedmoor. MRGG-A kinda fell off with 6.5 creedmoor and a 14.5" barrel. What is less known is Noveske and Geissele have been doing some military testing and producing 6ARC rifles... and 6ARC is recognized by the DoD... Suspicious....... Small framed AR with a 1000 yard effective range. 18" for best for powder burn, 16" for legal reasons with muzzle devices, but also a 14.5 with a HUXWRK Flow 6k. All barrels are about a 1/7 twist.

The concept of making shorty versions of calibers that were otherwise originally meant for 20-24 inch barrels is one of my favorite ideas. I always try to go as short as I reasonably can on all of my AR-10 intermediate caliber rifles (.308, 6CM, 6.5CM) because I run all of them suppressed and depending on the cans I'm running, they'll add anywhere from 6in to 11in in additional length beyond the barrel. I also found that the reduction in muzzle velocities for these calibers in shorter barrels weren't drastically different. The .308 is another perfect example of what you're talking about (16in vs. 18in vs. 20in). Even the 12.5 SBR version of the .308 still has respectable(ish) numbers that shooters could easily work with out to 300yrds. Great video, bro. Good timing as well with this larger caliber shorty concept seemingly growing in popularity right now.

I like this. Glad you explored this. Nice work.

How does this guy not have at least 500,000 subs? Wtf

I present the argument... If you're shooting a cartridge from a barrel and you're blowing a fireball out the end of the barrel, then the cartridge you're using is probably not the best suited for the goal in mind... at the very least, the powder in the case isn't correct, but if you're too extreme, even that won't fix it. When you blow half your powder out of the end of the barrel, you're leaving performance on the table... They have cartridges with what you're trying to do in mind the 6.5 grendel, 6mm arc, 22 arc, .224 valk... When you castrate the 6 5 creed down, you're now getting into the realm of what those other MSR cartridges were built for... so why built a rifle that weighs 2 or 3 pounds more on average, with a non standard reciever, with a more violent cartridge.... When considering in a SHTF way of thinking, .308 and 556 will still be the most prevalent ammunition type and hold the most value long term

Lol I saw the title and thought it was mine hahaha. Badass little build man.

I Stan the 6.5 Creedmoor. Its BC and overall ballistic profile is awesome!

I like that your breaking the norm! Very cool idea and I imagine we will see more of this in the market.

Just to add to the discourse, I have a 14.5" CM Craddock barrel converted for my LMT. Handloading I'm at 2600 fps with a 130gr ELD M using Varget. Best 5 shot load was 0.35". Ballistics wise this stays supersonic to a mile at my range's elevation. Can get 2700 fps with 130 gr using RL 26, but it's never in stock. Burn % is 100% for Varget, 94% for RL 26.

I have been contemplating this build. Glad to see I’m not the only one. Got a fair share of side eye looks when I mentioned it. 😂

M80 ball is a psyop to trick you into thinking 308 is a good cartridge.

Love the idea, makes more and more sense to me instead of a 308 ar10

My biggest issue with large frames is how much recoil there is within the system. Not like pain, but like the 1lb bolt and buffer going all over the place. It makes them a lot tougher to shoot accurately for long strings. I have a 16” 6.5 creed bolt gun I love, people don’t give shorty creeds credit but it’s a great combo.

Love that paint job. Planning on something similar if I can work up the courage to rattle can a rifle.

A lot of people have a small brain where this is concerned. “Long barrel long range”. They need to actually look at some velocity charts. Going from 16” to 24” a 147 grain round only gains about 150 fps. That’s a lot of barrel for a little extra velocity. 6.5 cm is a short barrel performer, but people don’t do the math.

🇺🇸

The CM DEFINITELY shines with the longer barrels(24"-26"etc.). I cut, threaded and recrowned my 26" heavy barrel down to 18" and have been running it out past 1000 yds to great effect. Just depends on what YOU need your rifle for and what distances you NEED to reach out to.

Oh, that actually makes a lot of sense! Great video!

I just got my Ar10 lower last month to start a 14.5 6.5creed build! Good video!

Interesting. I had no idea velocity was rather negligible on 6.5 Creed between barrel lengths, rather than the more oft reference 150fps per inch. In that light, the compact nature of your build gets an extra bump for field duty.

This kinda reminds me of a question I posed years ago where I asked if I should choose the then-newish 6.5 Creedmoor for its better external ballistics or, with the understanding that my ranges would be short, pick a .308 for better terminal ballistics. But it's a false assumption that .308 is any better terminally. With modern projectiles, choosing the .308 just leaves you with inferior ballistics at every range and no positive delta terminally. The only possible advantage is cheap M80 ammo. Literally every other metric goes in 6.5's favor at any range and with any barrel length.

I personally find this concept incredibly interesting and I'm curious to see what your eventual build comes out to be later on.

I was just thinking about this again. Ive gotta email Adams arms to see if they'll finally sell a 6.5 upper, now that PSA is almost done getting the G2 ready to ship.

Well great now you've got me listing my 20" 308 and ammo on armslist so I can look into a 6.5 creed build. Will probably go 16 just so I don't have to worry about P&W or brace vs stock. I didn't realize 6.5 creed was that reasonably priced for the non match grade stuff. Great video as always man

I don't own either 308 or 6.5, but watching trajectory of ballistics on each, 6.5 Creedmor is SUBSTANTIALLY better in trajectory 6.5 slaps steel so much harder at same distances The flatness of trajectory on 6.5 is perhaps the best out AR10 mag rifles, before you step up to bolt guns like 338 Lapua and such, but I have no experience with those calibers 6.5 Grendel is worse than 308 though. 6.5 Creedmoor is special It is also for people with money. 6.5 Creedmoor is more expensive, and your barrel life is only 2500-3000 rounds (before substantial accuracy degradation). 308 wins here, and 308 trajectory is surprisingly flat, not as flat as 6.5 Creedmoor Creedmoor is one of these recent trends that is actually grounded in reality. It is actually an amazing caliber It is also testament to how great 308 is, because it's like 1.5 tiers below 6.5 Creedmoor, and Creedmoor is recent

Thank you for making me regret getting my 308... lol

What about terminal ballistics? I was under the impression that 6.5 was better for hitting targets at extreme ranges, but that the .308 had better terminal ballistics out to 600ish yards. Mind you this is from my research prior to this year, when I got an AR10 finally. Great choice of music by the way, love Mass Effect.

Wow, really interesting insight there. The only other trade off I could think off, in addition to barrel life, is potential terminal performance? Whenever I’ve seen the difference between 6.5 vs .308 hunting bullets opening up, for example, the 308 bullet is massive comparatively. But if you can’t hit what you’re aiming at, I guess that doesn’t matter as much 😂

Good concept. Wish you’d suppressed that 14.5”. !!! The things is, I already have a stockpile of 308, getting into another caliber project sucks right now. BTW, AAC AMMO has 150gr .308 for $14.50 per box. I’ve been getting IGMAN 308 for $14 a box when it’s available at target 🎯 sports USA. You’re not looking hard enough for affordable 308. Both calibers can get quite expensive.

Yo, Daniel Defense has chrome lined Cold Hammer Forged barrel that is SUPERBLY accurate. My DD5 in 6.5 Creedmoor is .5MOA. So reduced barrel life isn’t a problem with the chrome lining and the toughness of a CHF barrel.

Good stuff, bro. 👍

Intro for this one is siiiiiccclkkkk! 😊

ARGG "All Range Gas Gun" - Jon circa 2024 Makes me want to talk like a pirate too, ARGG matey. lol I don't hear you speak too often if ever about triggers? What are you using in that setup? Thanks man.

This is interesting, never bothered looking at 6.5 Creedmoor, always thought you needed like 20"+ barrel. I just got done fine tuning my 10.3" 300 blackout and was thinking about a 16" 308 next. You gave me something to think about 🤔

It's kind of funny but my first 6.5 Creedmoor was a 24". Since then I've gotten a 26", a 22", a 20" (barrel that i haven't built up) and an 18". The 26" is a bolt gun, the 24" is my version of a match style AR, the 22" is lighter and more battle rifle-ish and the 18" is a detachable buffer tube backpack gun. I don't see the point in hamstringing a cartridge with a short barrel just because it still kind of compares favorably against something else. You also based your comparison upon shooting ballistics but ignored terminal ballistics. Looking at your first comparison, you had a 120 grain 6.5 going around 2,600 fps. That sounds an awful lot like 6.5 Grendle. I don't know the exact number but I think a LR308 platform is about 1.5" longer than an AR15 with the same barrel length so your gun is the same size as a 16" AR15 except it's heavier, the ammo is heavier, the magazines are physically a lot larger but they hold less rounds. Now I'm not a fan of 6.5 Grendle and i don't think it's a .308 substitute like it was marketed so i think your 6.5 Creedmoor isn't a .308 substitute either. It's when you go to longer barrels and heavier bullets where 6.5 Creedmoor shines but even then you have to look at what you are shooting at. If you are hunting game animals, the terminal performance reduces the effective range well below the accurate range. If you are aiming at a steel helmet you still need enough velocity to punch through and I'm not sure if my 22" 6.5 Creedmoor has enough velocity at 1,000 yards to get through. If it's paper you are shooting at, my 26" can probably get out to 1,500+ yards but the flight time and velocity make it only suitable for soft and stationary targets. I like to hit what I aim at and shoot 1,000 yards so I like 6.5 Creedmoor a lot but it's only a marginal improvement over .308 if you exclude target shooting from the comparison. When you shorten the barrel to the point that the target shooting advantage almost disappears, all of the other advantages are gone too.

This would be a lot of fun coupled with some of that new Hornady V-Match 100gn ammo!

One big issue with it being 6.5 CM is that it's an AR10 platform so right off the bat its heavier. 6mm ARC, 6.5 Grendel, 6.8 SPC, and 6.8/277 Fury are all AR15 platforms with extremely good ballistics. You'll also have more ammo which beats any benefit from 6.5 CM. If you need to reach out to 800+ meters or even just 600, go with a dedicated DMR. 16" would be the minimum on those and that's pushing it depending on the round. That extra 1.5" simply isn't enough to fuss over. We still had 20" barrels on my first deployment and managed just fine. The difference from 20 down to 14.5 was a lot. 16 down to 14.5 just isn't noteworthy othsr than looks. Ballistically theres a difference though and 16" barrels are a perfect middle ground. Also while the 6.5 CM can hit a target at 950 meters.. whats the energy it's hitting with, especially from a 14.5" barrel? Why not argue for 270 Winchester? Its ballistics and energy on target are better than both at range. So is the 277 Fury which again, is the lighter AR15 platform and allows your to carry far more ammo. Ammo count is king. Hitting a target at 1000 meters isn't. Most engagements take place sub 100 meters. Most sniper and DMR shots are 300 meters or less. If we're looking at more of a SHTF scenario, youre not engaging anyone at 600+ meters. Hell, not anything past 200-250 in all but the most extreme situations. You should be simply returning suppressive fire while getting the fuck out of there. So outside of "hey neat, look what I can do" which i can appreciate, there's no useful purpose for this setup.

First time I’ve ever heard anyone say 6.5CM could get 5k rounds on a barrel, I usually hear 2500-3k rounds before groups start to open up. I hope you’re right and I’m wrong, I’d love to see my barrels last longer.

I’d still go 308 every time. Cheaper ball ammo, you might luck into some AP specialty rounds, and the 168/175 SMK’s are dinosaur bullets. The 185 berger load, the 169 smk Winchester load, or any other loading using a modern bullet narrows the already narrow performance gap.

While i understand what you're saying, I would like to remind you that theres a reason hunters call it 6.5 woundmoor. When it comes to wound channels and actually putting an animal down it simply does not compete with other full caliber rifles.

I have watched zero seconds of this video so far so lol idk if I'm off base here. BUT I was talking about this exact concept to a friend ~2-3 years ago. I said that there was a niche here (I called it the "Super-SPR") and he told me I was dumb, why not .308 instead. My argument was that 6.5 does everything .308 does, but with better range and less recoil. Now it's almost cheaper.

Awesome video man. One day I’ll get into the long range game

Makes a WHOLE lot of sense with 120gr rounds. Get that velo back with less gr due to shorter barrel. Not to mention SAWC for same amount of ammo vs 168gr 308 has to equate to ALOT of weight difference. Makes even more sense if you reload since the 120gr will be cheaper than 140gr simply because its a smaller bullet and less material. I imagine assuming brass already on hand could load for .40-60 per round Fascinating use case here!!

Might explain why SOCOM has been looking at 6.5 Creed guns to tinker with instead of .308 counterparts. They can deal with reduced barrel life in exchange for the wealth of benefits.

If I were to go down this road, I would do it with a 16 inch barrel. That way I don't have to pin and weld the muzzle device to avoid the tax stamp.

I haven't been able to find any info on modern barrel life for a 6.5 creedmoor. Everything I see is still like 3k rounds. Who makes such durable barrels?

Short barrel 6.5 creed (SOCOM for this program use 130gr ammo) it is the same concept behinde US Army NGSW program. BUT, hot new ammo 6.8 x 51 give better performance from 13" barrel.

Great concept. I like it! Will you be building these and have available on your site? If so, when?

excellent points!

I had Deadshot build me a 7.62x 39 h-profile w/straight fluting. 3000 rounds and still under moa with bulk brass.

Personally would not use this rifle because I don't want to go broke buying 6.5 creedmoor D:

I have 2 bolt guns; both 16" in 308 & 6.5, and then 2 gas guns; both 16" in 308 & 6.5...

I can't see a normal Joe Blow being able to make use of the better long range capabilities of 6.5C over .308 My *opinion* is 18" 308 if you want a battle rifle, 14.5-16 5.56 if you want less recoil and lighter weight.

To me, it makes no sense to have a 6.5 in a shorter barrel. Under 500yrds, the 308 trumps 6.5 creedmore ballistics. Makes sense for 308 shorter barrel as a battle rifle, but if you want to use the full potential of the 6.5 creedmore, you will be using it out to farther distances with a longer barrel lenth which gives its imressive velocity and accuracy. Otherwise, why even waste time? You are handicapping the round, and 308 is so much more plentiful. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should, 8in 556 barrel, all marketing.😂 Do your homework ppl.

Along the same line of reasoning…compare 18-20” 5.56 to 14.5” 6ARC. These newer cartridges have the ballistic advantages over their predecessors…we just can’t afford to feed them.

Man, mass effect 1 main menu ost? Good taste

Dude that paint job is incredible. Can you post a tutorial vid?

Aye you finally put your muzzle device right side up lol

I wonder how this would do against a 14.5" 6mm Max???? The 6mm Max is even lighter since it is an AR15 platform. I would love to see a sis by side comparison!

Nice looking and well thought out over all build..... Was going to get a .308 bolt action, but why when I can get a much shorter, handier, bolt action 6.5, and have it as a special hunting/long distance rifle. But now that 6.5 gas gun is looking better with barrel changes also easier

So. because you lose so much velocity, you ought to consider the 120-129g projectiles, my favorite being the 123g SST. Basically now you are doing what a longer 6.5 Grendel is doing. Other thing to consider is the absolute necessity of an adjustable gas block and tuned buffer system. I did this in the past with the 260 Remington. That being said, I am now shooting a 18" noveske 6mm arc where I dont lose sight picture from recoil impulse.

First of all, _how dare you!_ Second, go on...

I'll say this: I'm less skeptical of the concept than when I first clicked on the video.

Im hand loading match grade 308 for about $8 a box and getting very good performance from my 16” 308 gas gun. I plan on getting a 6.5 bolt gun at some point and start loading for it,when i do I’ll probably build another upper in 6.5.

some people have a hard time doing things with products outside of what marketing departments told them they are supposed to do with products

Would the peak of this thinking be something like the DT Wolverine in 6.5creed with a 20”? Assuming willingness to switch to bullpup and of course, money

I'm just waiting for Jon to roast my upper . 😂😂😂😂 I want to see how competent of a builder I am. Plus I'm a sucker for critique.

Duude what were you specs on the dead shot barrel

Cool concept. I have stuck with 308 thus far cause I have a few spare boxes sitting around (just a few) but I've considered building a 6.5 creed. My biggest problem is i dont get to the range enough to justify building an upper right now. 😢

Can you believe the UTG 1-8x28 is $200 now on Amazon ? 😆👍

I want one of the Dissipator uppers so bad 😭. Unfortunately I chose this past week to switch pistol platforms. I put off moving away from the PDP for so long (PDP won't get ditched immediately, need to give the replacement a chance to prove itself).

I was surprised to hear your barrel life estimates. Reddit group posters would say 1/2 your estimate at best. Worst case for competitive shooter would be more like 1000 rounds before they would replace but I thing the highest estimate was 5,000 for 6.5 Creedmoor and maybe 10,000 for 308. Everyone has their own opinion. Others also point out as you did much higher cost of ammo to reach end of life of a barrel. The S&B 140 gr FMJ is the long 6.5 Creedmoor the only worthwhile round that is below $1 a round. Other S&B rounds and other brands all cost over $1. I considered 308 for bolt action but went with 6.5 Creedmoor for lower recoil. I agree 308 does not have the cost advantage it once had.

Interesting concept. I wonder how light you could get a package with that much power.

SOCOM must’ve watched this

You put all off these numbers together and didn't even think about mentioning foot pounds of energy? I bet it changes the story. A lot.

Thanks again man! I’m going to skip the 6 arc build after seeing this.

Damn you REALLY like Mass Effect.

Holy crap is that Vigil from ME1 as the bgm?

As long as I have 6 ARC and 6.5 Grendel, I really don't see the need for an AR10 platform rifle at all.

I would go the no nfa no tax stamp 16 inch route.

None for me thanks lol. I am not going below 20 inches with a 6.5 CM. There is just not enough energy left at that point for long range engagement. With a 20-22 inch barrel at 1000 yards a 143 grai ELD X is still going to carry about 600-700 ish ftlbs.

Any thoughts on the 6MAX from SOLGW?

Please let me know when 6.8 fury dies. I’ve never wanted big army to be so wrong(although to be fair the XM250 seems a lot more promising than the XM7)

Interesting analysis. I just don't want another caliber outlier. I guess it depends on what you want to do but I'm just not interested.

Great idea, until you can't find ammo

U blink everytime the gun fires