Fantastic narrative!

My two go pros run 24/7 the minute my Cherokee starts up till the minute I cut mixture. I don’t make KZfaq videos nor do I share the videos with anyone. Sole purpose of those cameras one facing me and one facing behind me to the instruments is to show what happens if in the event I crash. Those cameras will be recovered and it’s just another incident that could maybe save another pilots life. I do nothing but read NTSB report’s from fatal accidents to see what caused the accident. Because statistically 88% of all fatal civilian non commercial aviation crashes are the pilots fault somehow. Learn what every pilot out there ever did to kill themselves and avoid doing that exact thing and you’ll be just fine.

@@greenmonkey7305 Thanks for the visit! Very interesting and insightful. For sure, there was more than 1 pilot mistake in this scenario. Discussions like this really highlight awareness and hopefully make us better in the sky! Cheers!

From an ATC perspective, whenever I heard unawareness / inattention, unpreparedness, and especially excuse-making combine together in a pilot's mode of operation, and especially if a degree of unusual risk-taking was involved as well, I knew that we were dealing with someone who was a potential nightmare for himself / herself and others. The cause may be anything from medications to exhaustion to hypoxia to complacency, or simply poor training and skills, but part of asking someone why they failed to respond or violated airspace, etc., is because you're hoping that it acts as a wake-up call and they realize that they aren't doing so well and need to step up their game or let us know what is wrong. Sometimes it doesn't work. In the best scenarios, it gets referred to FSDO or at least air traffic management afterward. In the worst scenarios, it ends up like this.

@@ReflectedMiles Thanks for the visit and thanks for taking the time to leave well constructed comments. Makes the effort into making this type of video well worth the time. The failure to respond to ATC is a really bewildering aspect as it is just second nature to press the button and reply. I'm not sure we will ever get the final reason/answer on this one as there were so many contributing bad indicators. We can hope for the best from the final report and at a minimum make us better in the sky. Thanks again!

Great point! Really makes you wonder if there was no medical emergency, taking a few minutes to file IFR pre-flight and we wouldn't be here talking about this accident. Cheers!

If FAA is a federal agency; How come aviation leadership is not making flight plan filing mandatory? What are the challenges in implementing such a mandate?

@@philipbond4088 That is a great point! I wonder if it is on the FAA radar?

Do you fly? If so, what location? Here in mountains out west, it’s very common to be VMC both at origin and destination only to have afternoon thunderstorms arrive leading to amending to IFR. I always file VFR in busy regions whenever possible, even if I know I’ll be in IMC en route and/or at destination. I’m commonly flying out of PWT, my home BDU or after visiting my son flying out of TME, all regions with very dense air traffic. It makes runway and flight level clearance much more efficient filing VFR than IFR. Once I’m near target flight level I’ll either update to IFR on my iPad or verbal w/ATC.

​@@philipbond4088 personally i prefer not filing a flight plan. For the same reason I don't plan my drives. I like not being dead set on where I'll end up. To me, that adds a bit of extra fun to the whole ordeal. "It's about the journey, not the destination" and all that.

Thank you for watching and commenting. It is enjoyable to use Flight Simulator to recreate these flights in hopes of making us more aware through learning and knowledge. Blue skies!

Yes, definitely a very cold ending to this flight. Really hope we gain more insight into the actual cause(s) with the final report from the NTSB. Blue skies!

Great points and stated well!

How do u know it’s quality experience?

@@PInk77W1 Your idiotic question doesn't deserve an answer.

Hi. You are very welcome and glad to provide more info about the flight especially given your knowledge of the students. Take care!

Absolutely. I’ve seen the videos of the test pilots performing stalls and the roll is nasty. Hence the stall shaker and pusher system to warn and override the stall. A pre-flight checks for the integrity of this system. I wonder if the test was performed before the flight?

Do y'all have any idea where I can find those test videos?

@@TheFlightLevel ?

@@stephencaudle1766 Here you go. Res is not great but certainly shows the stalls with and without the pusher engaged. Landing gear down I guess during the flight tests. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/jLSCfpWSutO7h30.html

@@TheFlightLevel Thank you so much! 👍

Thanks for the visit! Time will tell if we find out what really went wrong.

@@zlmdragon. The final NTSB reports can take a long time to complete (years). Pasting together the available info from different sources helps us appreciate the possible reasons. As aviators we are always learning and discussion is good to raise awareness and not make the same mistakes.

Right. Maybe in 2 years. They are political guys. Bidens pick didn't know what anything was. Airport? Whatever is that. True

Thanks for visiting and commenting. Yes, there was an indication at one point that all was not well with the radio. So this may have played into the stressful events. Thanks again!

Hey, thanks for the visit and the insight. Yes, realize the different panel, but gotta work with what is available in the sim. So sad, if the pilot didn’t prepare properly on the ground and know the avionics properly. Cheers and blue skies!

Hi John. Part of me also thinks the student co-pilot was at the controls. The pilot was 69 years old and reported to have 3000 hours. That is a fast plane and things happen quickly especially when trying to talk the student through the flight (hence the entry into restricted airspace).

Thanks for watching and commenting! So many possibilities on this one and your careful words could certainly explain the outcome! Blue skies to you!

This is the part that is so difficult to understand. We may never know the real answer to this question.

Cardiac arrest.

@@gcvincent3989 that was my thought

It depends how fast the onset is and how severe the effects are.

Thanks very much for watching and commenting! Glad to hear you enjoyed the accompanying music. Always good to open up other lines of thought regarding the cause. We can hope that the final NTSB report will reveal more conclusive information. Cheers!

possibly but unlikely with a turboprop

Thanks for watching and it really hits home with those on board living so close. Definitely a tragic story!

Thank you for watching and commenting! Worked hard on the animations and glad you enjoyed them. I will definitely consider the future videos with more narration! Blue skies!

ATC audio in this one! kzfaq.info/get/bejne/ieCYZZh6s9C0XWg.html Cheers!

@@TheFlightLevel no way!! This is awesome! Thank you so much, I definitely like the flight ✈️ path and everything surrounding it. Well done friend! You got a life long sub! 🙏🏼💯

BrownE🙂

The pilot was 67 years old with 3000 hours. His most recent second-class medical certificate was issued June 28, 2021. If medical was the reason, it is crazy there were no radio calls suggesting a problem. Maybe more than 1 factor involved here.

@@TheFlightLevel Agreed, most medical issues involve communication with ATC. What were this guys certifications? Seat time in PC12? What was his role in flight? Was he a CFI? If so, was he in right seat? Was the student in left seat? How many hours had student had in PC12 of any high performance airframe? Had he/she had any ifr training? Very obvious this was another case of spatial disorientation but what led to this? Lots of questions need answering. NTSB can usually conclude these investigations with remarkable insight and conclusions. Best of luck to them

Thanks for the visit to the channel! Not sure if we will get a definitive answer on this one, but every bit of reconstruction and insight with the facts we have may be the best we can do to resolve this one. Blue skies!

Thanks for commenting! A very real possibility as you describe. We may never know how a full passenger load of distractions added to the initial problem(s)!

This is a different one. This one happened on February 13, 2022. Thanks for visiting!

In that crash the airplane came apart before hitting the ground whats that tell you !

Thanks for the visit! Only the flight simmers will understand your comment! Blue skies!

Definitely! Previous trips in the aircraft between the two airports showed a direct flightpath well clear of the restricted airspace. Something was definitely amiss from the outset. I also wonder if the student co-pilot was given a go at the controls?

Hi Mark. Thanks for watching and commenting. Someone mentioned that carbon monoxide poisoning is unlikely in a turboprop, but certainly still possible. Will be interesting to see the final report. Cheers!

Bleed air for cabin pressure is taken from the first part of the turbine where no combustion takes place leaving no chance of CO poisoning.

Good points Scott! More questions that compound this mystery flight. Blue skies!

Agree so much with your comments on this one. It is just so hard to understand how this flight could go the way it did in the final minute with an incredible climb! Blue skies to you John. Please do consider a subscription to the channel. Thank you in advance!

So very, very, true! Just as you state, it is hard to understand how things could go so terribly wrong in that final minute. Hopefully the final NTSB report will shed some light on this one. Blue skies!

Not 100% sure, but I believe the radar data is taken at intervals (30, 60 seconds?). The last data point may have been recorded just before the plane began to dive. The next data point may not have been recorded because the plane was below water?

Thanks for watching Bob! Button pushing certainly doesn't help when you are behind the airplane in this case for sure. Indeed, a very sad story to comprehend. Blue skies!

Yes, powerful planes if not dealt with properly! Thanks for watching and commenting!

Quite true! Never fly above your confidence level!

Highly unlikely that was a direct contributor. I didn’t see what version PC12 this was, unless it’s the 1st gen /45, it has an automated deice system that includes pitot and prop heaters as well as boot activation. We would have seen lots of elevation deviation with icing as he struggles to maintain lift. The fact he climbed for 2 9 minutes at 1500fpm further supports no icing. There’s never been a single conclusive incident involving a PC12 damaged to point of compromised air worthiness due to turbulence. More often the turbulent air increases pilot workload which eventually leads to spatial disorientation. I suspect that is case here based on that radar data. It was most certainly the case in the Reno PC12/45 crash that killed 5 this weekend.

@@MichaelM-to4sg I agree, have heard the auto pilot kicks off more easily on early PC-12's in turbulence. It can be difficult in severe turbulence, I have heard of pilot's having trouble reading the instruments due bouncing around in really bad turbulence. Winds blowing over the ridge's can be very nasty and if you are solid IFR very challenging. ( this comment pertains to the Reno accident )

@@dwaynemcallister7231 I’ve flown in severe turbulence here in Rockies where the Sperry APU in my Solitaire has disengaged. I’m however always trying to fly ahead of aircraft and am aware of turbulent air prior to flying into it. I’ve navigated an exit route and communicated w/ATC well in advance. If you listen to ATC transmission from Reno flight, pilot is warned of severe turbulence at all flight levels while taxiing. He acknowledges the news but does not inquire w/ATC about possible routes or strategies to work around it. He also gets lost missing a taxiway while on ground. You just knew this flight was in trouble and pilot was out of his element before wheels up.

@@dwaynemcallister7231 I can confirm autopilot disconnection was a significant problem in early PC-12s, and there were a few unconfirmed reports that the annunciation of such events was unreliable. The situation improved greatly with the introduction of the 12NG.

Yes, certainly a possibility and it would certainly make sense for the final events of the flight. Hope we get some solid answers from the final NTSB report. Please consider subscribing. Thanks in advance! Cheers!

Quite true! Might have been a different outcome had the restricted area been busier and not given way to the RNAV approach. So many questionable aspects to this flight. Blue skies and thanks for commenting!

The pilatus has plenty of horse power i believe near 1 thousand on the latest models

In theory the instruments, glass or steam, should prevent spatial disorientation. The information is there in front of pilot but I’ve done it on a sim and it’s just crazy how the mind causes us to ignore our training. One of the scariest things we as pilots can experience. In the case of part 135 operations, I personally think 2-pilots should be mandatory in IMC. I’d also like FDR’s mandated on all part 135 aircraft however that more difficult to apply, especially on older aircraft w/steam gauges. On these single pilot GA part 91 operations, no easy answer. I think a lot comes down to continued recurrent training.

@@MichaelM-to4sg Excellent point regarding 2 pilots for IMC!

even with synthetic vision and all the tech advancements in the cockpit, the human element is unchanged and people will still die in VMC to IMC when not prepared.

I know right, your attitude indicator, hsi or heading indicators are all right there in front of you but the disorientation messes some people up bad.

@@MichaelM-to4sg One factor often ignored is the time it takes to switch from VFR mindset to IFR mindset; with most pilots, it's easily enough time to lose the aircraft in the worst possible way.

Thanks for watching. Someone mentioned that CO poisoning is highly unlikely in a turboprop, but still possible. Not sure we will ever get the definitive answer on this one. Please do consider a subscription to the channel. Thanks in advance and cheers!

Thanks for visiting and keeping the discussion going! If the son was in the left seat and the Dad coaching him along, that would help to explain many of the problems as things happen so quickly at the airspeed recorded with ADS-B data. Interesting possibility about the opposite mapping of the AP switch re that final climb to 4700’. Blue skies!

Can we just wait for an official NTSB report before screaming wildly disrespectful speculation? 🤦‍♂️ FFS dude, 8 people died, leaving behind likely dozens of friends and family. Have some respect

Wild speculation. Have you no sense or decency ?

Says someone who doesn't know what happened, nor why.

Hopefully the final NTSB report will give us the most significant reasons behind this accident. Thanks for watching!

But two minutes of it?? My instructor always reminded me of the- get out of jail free button… autopilot wings level.

ya sounds like could have been medical issue .. then student pilot wasnt prepared to handle it

That could explain why the pilot wasn't responding to ATC when they first entered restricted airspace.

@@simonbagel Quite true. This is something that puzzled me right away. It is so instinctive to respond immediately!

Or not.

8 people died. Have some dignity and respect for those persons. Maybe keep your morbid sense of humour to yourself at your Trump rallies🤦‍♂️

You’re an idiot

@@arcadia5607 you can have all my boosters, more for you

I INSIST YOU HAVE MINE. EXTRA BOOSTERS FOR YOU....

​@@robertd7073 feeling fine after mine. Maybe you're just a lil beotch.

Cheaper than a king air, but also less forgiving if flown incorrectly. Lots of people getting into them because of the lower price, good speed, large cabin and cargo door. Kinda like how 172s, PA-28s and R22s have a higher accident rate because of pilots learning in them

One of the safest, most reliable and sturdy built aircraft in GA. Much more capable than a KA. The Reno crash was an early PC12/45. Still a very capable and solid airframe but many of the automated safety systems of the newest NGX are not include in /45 version. Have not heard which version PC12 this was. The NGX is full fadec, single lever operation

@@MichaelM-to4sg It was a '47E according to NTSB

They most certainly does not suck. One of the best aircraft out there with flight deck as advanced as they come. Any crash of a PC12 is almost always due to the pilot.

PC-12's do not "suck," they are well-designed, superbly constructed and practical, efficient aircraft. However airplanes of this type and price point are frequently acquired by high net worth individuals who believe that because they have been successful in getting rich, that high ability transfers into high ability to do everything else, like flying airplanes. These people do not like to be told what to do and believe that they are in a word invincible to the mishaps of the world. Study the JFK Jr. death crash to see what I am talking about. Second factor, these airplanes are often used in very practical commercial operations such as charter (passenger transport from A to B), cargo flying, patrol, and the like. These are jobs which do not pay much and often time have to operate very close to the regulations, i.e., without much extra capacity which costs money and therefore reduces profit. These commercial operations hire pilots who are just starting out and are in a lot of debt usually and therefore dependent on getting a job and keeping it not only to pay off loans, but also to get the required experience (flight hours) to move up the ladder to the coveted airline job and its six-figure salary. As a result they put their inexperience into situations which more experienced people would refuse to fly in and things like this result. Pilot hiring is not based on merit and responsibility but is cronyistic and often nepotistic and the many experienced pilots who would like to do jobs like this and could do them safely and responsibly are shunted aside by the irresponsible hiring practices of these companies. The experienced pilots are either flat out "ghosted" in the application process or they are contacted and told they are "overqualified." Age discrimination is illegal but it is routinely practiced because it is almost impossible to prove and applicants know it, so they have to take it. Companies in America have all the power and applicants have none, and even the Government has very little real power to do anything about the hiring processes for pilots that put inexperienced people, careless people, clueless people and outright clowns into the pilots seat. The question is not why so many crashes occur, given the average abysmal skill and judgment of the pilot population doing these jobs, it's a miracle that there aren't 10 times more crashes. Everyone on the inside really knows the situation but because of many factors--pride, money, etc.--these things are faced squarely. No one can or will do anything about the situation so these kinds of crashes will go on and on. These are things I have seen and opinions I have formed from decades of experience in U.S. aviation of all types and you can flame me but you will not change my mind.