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The War Room VIII: Tactical Trends in 1917

  Рет қаралды 9,847

Usually Hapless

Usually Hapless

Күн бұрын

Пікірлер: 48
@yanzavhorodniy1231
@yanzavhorodniy1231 Жыл бұрын
There's a whole hell of a lot more to combat in The Great War than I thought and I already realized there's a ton to it.
@RayLovesToMakeMusic
@RayLovesToMakeMusic Жыл бұрын
As the less-studied of the two World Wars, WWI land warfare is often reduced in the popular narrative to stupid generalship that ordered masses of human targets “over the top” into the teeth of artillery and machine guns. In a manner that even a non-military history student could understand, this video shows how WWI tactics adapted meaningfully to hard lessons learned earlier in the war.
@RayLovesToMakeMusic
@RayLovesToMakeMusic Жыл бұрын
P.S. - I have forwarded your video to my daughter, a university history professor who specializes in WWI and the inter-war years. She replied “This video is useful.”
@usuallyhapless9481
@usuallyhapless9481 Жыл бұрын
Thanks very much man! Have to say I would have eaten up a video like this when I was at university.
@stormcommando1640
@stormcommando1640 Жыл бұрын
Is this planned to extend to WW2? Obviously if it does, fair bit away from then, but this series is quite interesting.
@ShadowDragon1848
@ShadowDragon1848 Жыл бұрын
I agree! Would be nice! I hope also that we will see something like this for the eastern front of World War 1
@usuallyhapless9481
@usuallyhapless9481 Жыл бұрын
So, I'm probably going to draw a line under WW1 (1914-18 being the big inflection point where warfare changed, everything since is polish) and then go out wide and cover some other interesting stuff. Like the Archidamian War, the Seige of Sarragossa, anything else that takes my fancy. Going to be fun!
@andreass2301
@andreass2301 Жыл бұрын
@@usuallyhapless9481 This has been a great series, it would be nice to see a late 20th/early 21st century follow up to show how WW1 tactic have defined the modern battlefield before you go of on to other adventures.
@SilentJaycob89
@SilentJaycob89 Жыл бұрын
This stuff is pure gold.
@DNH17
@DNH17 Жыл бұрын
I agree!!
@breandank3026
@breandank3026 Жыл бұрын
Perfect timing, I just finished rewatching the war room playlist lol
@jacobdale2314
@jacobdale2314 Жыл бұрын
This more a strategic than tactical question. My understanding of one of the reasons why the Western Front stalemate persisted is a combination of tactical mobility being limited to the speed of a man on foot and his horse or foot based logistical support, while the defender could reinforce any breach very quickly by rail. I believe that this is one of the reasons that the German Spring 1918 offensives failed despite initial tactical success. Is this an accurate characterization of the problem, and did the Allies solve this problem of keeping an attack moving fast enough in 1918, or were they able to use normal movement and resupply methods successfully against an enemy who had been exhausted to the point that they didn't have the reserves to move around quickly?
@usuallyhapless9481
@usuallyhapless9481 Жыл бұрын
Yep. It's another WW1 attacker's problem: the defender can exploit strategic mobility to reinforce faster than the attacker can exploit. The Germans went for broke with the Spring Offensives, but very quickly ran out of steam, while the attacks in the Hundred Days were more like constant, unrelenting short bursts than massive breakthroughs. But we'll get to all that :)
@maxwellfairfield888
@maxwellfairfield888 Жыл бұрын
Another amazing war room episode. My knowledge of ww1 was absolute zero before this series and I love how the lessons in these videos show a progression for the next century. Thanks so much for the wealth of knowledge being shared.
@TheKenigham
@TheKenigham Жыл бұрын
I love the war room series!
@gareththompson2708
@gareththompson2708 Жыл бұрын
I hope the War Room doesn't end after you do 1918. While WW1 has the most tactical developments (and many of the most interesting developments) there are still plenty of interesting tactical developments before the Boer War and after WW1. In particular I would be interested in learning when extended order tactics started to gain traction. I got the impression from you Boer War videos that the British were mostly using extended order tactics against rifle armed opponents even before they had a chance to learn any tactical leasons from that conflict (even if the order wasn't as extended as it should have been and the soldiers weren't trained to find independent cover), with some debate over whether close order or extended order tactics were better and the odd battallion commander marching his troops forward in close order. I got a similar impression from your Rifles at Mons video and from listening to Spencer Jones' The Great Retreat of 1914 reguarding the German army, with a similar mix of extended order and close order tactics being used (I also got the impression that everyone who tried close order tactics once immediately switched to extended order tactics for subsequent engagements (you mentioned that even the Japanese extended their order during the attack at Yalu)). Obviously the debate over close order vs extended order tactics wasn't settled until 1914, but extended order tactics had clearly begun to gain traction and enter widespread use long before 1914. So I would love to know when that was. I used to go around telling people that moment was the Franco-Prussian War (now I'm pretty sure that there wasn't a single "moment"). That before the Franco-Prussian War pretty much everyone used close order tactics, and afterwards most armies started switching to extended order tactics. That could still be true as far as I know, but my evidentiary standards have risen a bit over the last decade and I'm no longer comfortable repeating that without more information. I am fairly certain that just a decade later, during the 1st Boer War, the British were using extended order tactics against the Boers (close order tactics against the Zulu, but extended order against rifle-armed opponants), granting that my evidence for this is a few battle scenes from a movie (they are very bad extended order tactics, with an interval of probably less than a meter between soldiers, but they at least usually go to ground when they stop marching (they are marching forward, not rushing forward)). Of course maybe it's possible that extended order tactics were already being used in the Franco-Prussian War (I don't know enough about the small level tactics of that war to say that they weren't (everyone who talks about that war always talks about the big troop movements and never talks about the low level tactics)), although that just changes the question from "when in the 1870s did extended order tactics start gaining traction" to "when in the 1860s did extended order tactics start gaining traction". I have heard some people say (not really compelling evidence, but something that I wouldn't mind being either validated or debunked) that the armies went to war in 1870 with a close order doctrine, but that extended order tactics ended up being used to a greater extent for a myriad of reasons from broken close order formations defaulting to informal extended order formations and continuing to fight more effectively to skirmish lines just turning out to be more effective than expected (if they attacked in Napoleonic fashion then they would have had a line of skirmishers out front to screen the main army, and if the skirmishers ended up being able to bear the brunt of the attack better than expected then you might just keep reinforcing the skirmish line with troops from the main body, rather than sending forward the main close order body).
@usuallyhapless9481
@usuallyhapless9481 Жыл бұрын
My intent with the War Room is finish off "The Birth of Modern Warfare" and then go on a military-historical sightseeing tour. Sphacteria, Saragossa, Ferrybridge, Oporto, places like that. Re: Extended vs Close order. Trying to pin exact dates on things is tough- there are so many variables- much easier to determine general trends across bigger time periods. Units tended to use what worked and in some circumstances (even as far back as the French and Indian Wars) extended open order is just more practical/effective than close order.
@nbr1rckr
@nbr1rckr Жыл бұрын
What an absolute treasure trove of insight.
@matthiuskoenig3378
@matthiuskoenig3378 Жыл бұрын
I was wondering, where would I find ww1 doctine, tactics and tactical oob. Such as how the platoon is structured and fights in this video. What are some good books, etc.
@usuallyhapless9481
@usuallyhapless9481 Жыл бұрын
Well, a couple of starting points ;) "Stormtroop Tactics, Innovation in the German Army 1914-1918" by Bruce Gudmundsson "Battle Tactics of the Western Front: The British Army's Art of Attack, 1916-18" by Paddy Griffith www.ir63.org/Downloads/Leavenworth-Papers-Tactical-Doctrine.pdf is a good look into German doctrinal changes www.314th.org/numbered-documents/0613-instructions-for-the-training-of-platoons-for-offensive-action.pdf is the British platoon manual that came in after the Somme I could go on, but pilfering the bibliographies in these is also a good way to go
@matthiuskoenig3378
@matthiuskoenig3378 Жыл бұрын
@@usuallyhapless9481 Thankyou, I'll look into these
@bmhh123
@bmhh123 Жыл бұрын
I enjoy this series a great deal.
@colbysimpson5936
@colbysimpson5936 Жыл бұрын
Amazing series Hapless. Can't wait for the next episode!
@RACwarFootage
@RACwarFootage Жыл бұрын
These videos are incredible, like Perun presentation levels of incredible. Wish they got more views, very informative and well narrated, this deserves way more attention. Bravo 👏
@shamasmacshamas7135
@shamasmacshamas7135 Жыл бұрын
Great series! Really has improved my understanding of the tactics of the late 19th and early 20th centuries.
@aanders1990
@aanders1990 Жыл бұрын
Excellent as always
@Euan_Miller43
@Euan_Miller43 Жыл бұрын
Yet another epic video
@nerdymidgetkid
@nerdymidgetkid Жыл бұрын
Great content as always, probably the best explanation of tactics I've seen in any format. After you've presumably gone through 1945, it would be great to see some stuff on the tactics which were expected to be deployed in the European Theatre during the Cold War at various times - perhaps 10 year intervals - and compare how these differed from the actual tactics employed in real conflicts. Simply going through the Korea and Arab - Israeli wars, for example, would miss the tactical / operational impact of nuclear weapons - very topical today - and it's often noted that various different types of equipment in the Cold War proxy wars (e.g. Soviet tanks) were not used in the ways they were intended, and I'd like to hear more about that.
@DNH17
@DNH17 Жыл бұрын
Yes but one thing is imaginary never happened wars, another is actual happened wars. Anyway with the information era and then digital and AI\imaginary warfare, today the war has neo-citizen soldiers, enlisting any type of people and things have changed a lot. War is made with a little story and people start to post stuff to overthrow a system, culture or regime... it's happening everywhere, from parliaments to dictatorships. As long as who has the powers doesn't like something stuff is overthrown... I can tell you many examples. There are so many things in the making and so much studies need still to be made and verified and commonly known that today war is still not explained much. But you can see today Iran being attacked by US\Israel Tools, the Kurds, then Russia and China Respond by banning NGO and Caritas from Algeria. The pipelines in Baltic are taken out, China is object of NBC attack but cannot actually act in consequence of it as it would show weakness... It's all stuff that is not explained and is happening every day... Italy went to get gas from Algeria and Libia but in Libia 4 months ago right before the visit Culture and Energy ministers were kidnapped... Guess what... Russia and China and USA are working also together (not at all only against each other) to actually butcher Europe into a new iron curtain\spy world chaotic battlefield, and now there are also big firms, mega corps, just like in Cyberpunk realms is told, that do play a factor.
@DNH17
@DNH17 Жыл бұрын
As stupid as it can sound, but playing Battlefield 1 (besides some fantasy in it... I did not know there were actually people using a sort of "medieval" armor... which in the videogame is exaggerated to the level of ruining immersion, in the Monte Grappa front) can give an understanding of the butchering happening through these times and conflict. The tactics explained here are extremely interesting. I always will be a supporter of acquiring information from multiple media and sources to have a more balanced, imagine and understand the complex picture of past times. Very interesting is also the photography you brought here. Very big work. Thank you.
@armandomarchan7888
@armandomarchan7888 Жыл бұрын
Hey do you happen to have a discord for your channel? Or a discord for the Combat mission games? I've been considering purchasing one of the games recently due to your video's, but even if I'll get curb stomped for a while, it would be nice to know that I actually have a group to play with
@usuallyhapless9481
@usuallyhapless9481 Жыл бұрын
;) discord.gg/uqPmvqHQuH
@larsdejong7396
@larsdejong7396 11 ай бұрын
Well, can't say my trust wasn't well-placed... this basically makes most of my books about ww1 warfare obsolete. 😂 I mean, some documentaries talk about the infantry-artillery coordination... and then stop. And fail to explain why it didn't work later on, and what it's limits where. And thats apart from the scaling down of firepower, the massive effect of the wireless radio, the birth and necessity of aerial warfare... this is fascinating. And later on of course, the birth of the tank, and especially the tank doctrine of infantry and cavalry tanks that both the French and British used in ww2 (in broad terms), as well as the need for general motorization and mechanization.
@robertkalinic335
@robertkalinic335 Жыл бұрын
You made a comment about tanks being unreliable while showing only british tanks, did you mean the french tanks like FT too cause i think their modern layout and the fact that they were still used even in ww2 counters that. Edit: Ft were first used in 1918, but french had to have some other tanks before. Those british tanks look like pretty much anything is more reliable than them.
@usuallyhapless9481
@usuallyhapless9481 Жыл бұрын
As far as I know, the FTs suffered from similar mechnical reliability problems (and I doubt the ones used in WW2 were using the same engines etc). Things get better for tanks as the war goes on, but they don't really come into their own until WW2.
@ThePizzaGoblin
@ThePizzaGoblin Жыл бұрын
So reverse slope positions. You set up on the counterslope looking towards the enemy coming over the ridge in front of you, or do you set up on the counterslope looking "backwards" toward your lines and shooting guys in the back?
@usuallyhapless9481
@usuallyhapless9481 Жыл бұрын
So, a reverse slope and a counterslope are slightly different. A ridge on it's own has a forward slope (facing the enemy) and a reverse slope on the other side. The counterslope is the forward slope of the next ridgeline... if that makes sense. This image might help a bit more than the one I put in the video: www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/3-90/fig8-15.gif
@ThePizzaGoblin
@ThePizzaGoblin Жыл бұрын
@@usuallyhapless9481 so reverse slope is facing rearward, and counter slope is facing forward?
@usuallyhapless9481
@usuallyhapless9481 Жыл бұрын
Yes. That's just the slopes though- a defensive position on either of them always faces towards the enemy. It's about controlling engagement distances.
@ThePizzaGoblin
@ThePizzaGoblin Жыл бұрын
@@usuallyhapless9481 ah, so you would put the position on the counter slope to engage targets on the reverse slope
@Strakh1992
@Strakh1992 Жыл бұрын
Very informative, as always in the War room ;). To those who are interested in german elastic defense tactics I highly recommend an article "The dynamics of doctrine: the changes in German tactical doctrine during the First World War" by Timothy Lupfer which is open access.
@PitterPatter20
@PitterPatter20 Жыл бұрын
Another UH video, another great day!
@FunkGodPutin
@FunkGodPutin Жыл бұрын
Combat Misson: Great War
@wartsnall7332
@wartsnall7332 Жыл бұрын
@0:55 Dog attack!
@usuallyhapless9481
@usuallyhapless9481 Жыл бұрын
I was wondering if anyone would spot that ;)
@wartsnall7332
@wartsnall7332 Жыл бұрын
@@usuallyhapless9481 I suppose it could be "Dog Retreat", but I've loved the phrase "Dog Attack" ever since Red Dwarf.
@alexanderlarsen6412
@alexanderlarsen6412 Жыл бұрын
This is incredibly my shit. Thank you.
@jerrysmooth24
@jerrysmooth24 Жыл бұрын
the wire on the Hindenburg line was so thick you couldnt fit a broom handle in between it and even that couldnt stop us from cooking those emaciated Germans in their defense in depth in less than a hundred days. s/o to Sergeant York
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