Was that one of the times the TNG Enterprise encountered Tomalok?

​@@mary-kittybonkers2374 Yep

@@mary-kittybonkers2374 Yeah he threatened to bring back the enterprise’s broken hull to Romulus and display it in front of the senate….. Good ol Tomaloc 😂😂

@@mary-kittybonkers2374 RIP Andreas Katsulas, one of the best sci-fi actors there ever was!

@@Draelyn Yes, I really enjoyed his portrayal of G’Kar in Babylon 5. He played him with great depth, gravitas and humour. I think that his G’Kar, and Mira Furlan’s ‘Delenn’ were the strongest characters in the entire B5 universe.

"Illegal Torpedo spam intensifies"

[Galaxy-class Venture Refit has entered the chat] I love chicken....

Defiant and sovereign class laugh at torpedo spam

@@Googleisstupid-sk3hm if I remember lower decks, sovereigns dont exactly like torpedo spam. Also what do you have against the akira

I knew it I spotted a word chi'c'kens.

Wait explain did he help design the sovereign????

@@AloneInWonder2683 Yes, Captain Montgomery Scott was involved in the creation of the Sovereign-Class Starship

@@dexoearth9167 Omg!!!!!!!

Hate to break it ya but its been proven (its cannon) just one romulan warbird is more than a match for galaxy class, the only reason the ship isn't smoldering cinders was really good negoation or outmanvering on Picard's part. However I tottally agree that all changed with the Sovereign class.

Ship of the Line book, aye.

Exactly. Probably the best looking ship in the whole stat trek universe.

Indeed

I find the design striking. Ever sence I first seen it appear in that episode of TNG. Was like now that, that's a battleship! To this day it one of my top sci fi warships. Also think that the ship was done dirty in ds9 lol.

Very inspired and original design. Props to the concept artist or modeler responsible for it.

Only Truly against the Jem'Hadar fleet, even the Federation was packing body bags faster than they could replicate and had time to adjust to the new reality of things. The Romulans entered the war with a fraction the Federation Dominion battle tactics.

It showed the weakness of big, slow and sluggish ships in general. The Dominion fleet had mostly small ships that were truly countered effectively by the Defiant, Sabre, Akira classes and the Bird if Prey. The bigger Dominion ships had enough protection to easily overpower starfleet ships and most KDF and Romulan ships. The main weakness was the fact that the Warbird was a slow ship, turned like the Schwerer Gustav railway gun would and had most if the firepower concentrated up front. Against KDF and Starfleet this tactic was useful as they would have the first strike almost everytime and those ships were not much of a problem to keep up with (bird of prey being an exception). Then the Dominion arrived with their small ships flying in swarms, flanking around the Warbird and tearing it apart

It was built with a cold war mentality. Big, imposing, and serve many roles other than combat for most of its service life.

Even before the Romulans entered the war, a lot of their warbirds got their asses kicked in the failed Obsidian Order/Tal Shiar strike on the Founders' homeworld. They simply were not prepared for the phased polaron beams of the Jem'Hadar, or the sheer number of ships the Jem'hadar could field.

Ugh no it did not. When the Romulans entered the war they immediately pushed the Dominion back and took out several key bases along the border. Even before the war during the battle of the omarion nebula the warbirds took a beating by the Jem'Hadar before going down. The Cardassian ships folded like a cheap suit after just a few shots.

So yeah, the Klingon Birds of Prey was actually shown as a counter. There's an episode of TNG where two D'deridex ships "ambushed" the Enterprise -D but as soon as the BoP decloaked, they retreated. The agility and cloaking ability of them would easily allow hit and run strikes against a ship that size

@@blackdog6969 The episode was The Defector. I think it was just sheer bad odds that turned the tide. 2 D'deridex vs. 3 Klingon BoP + a Galaxy class wasn't survivable. Picard even asked the Romulan commander if he wanted to die together in the battle.

You forget that the Dominion bugships used phased polaron beams that rendered deflector shields useless. If not for that advantage the warbirds would have probably won.

That means nothing. Swarm tactics would work on any opponent under normal circumstances but that's not what gave the Dominion the edge. It was there phased polaron weapons that give them the edge in battle combined with swarm tactics. The Klingons tried the same strategy in a offscreen battle with the Romulans. There initial ambush succeeded in surprising a couple warbirds but after the surviving warbirds returned fire the battle didn't last long. Later in the war the Romulans, Klingons, and Federation adapted there tech and nullified this advantage.

@@DrOneOneOne I had always wondered if there was a fourth BoP that was just out of frame so that there would be two behind the Warbirds and two in front by the Enterprise.

Plasma torpedos would take care of the defiant

@@JemHadar422 plasma torpedos are less effective the photon torpedos.

@@JemHadar422 Sure, a plasma may knock out a Defiant, but, that's only effective if you manage to score a hit. They are nimble little blighters.

Warbirds supposedly have a 360° arc of fire so even if just hitting the backside a Defiant Class ship would still be over powered.

@@caseytice823 Their weapons are not equally powerful in the 360 arc. The forward facing weapons are the most powerful. Same with the galaxy class.

With Defiant class escorts.

Yeah, I love the Akira class, but those two defiants definitely helped.

What episode was that

It was a voyager episode it’s called message in a bottle

well said!

Anti-proton scans sure removed the warbird's advantage

not if she's cloaked because they wouldn't know where she was to do that but yeah if she could find the ship she could do some serious Romulan ass owning of that ship in combat and rip the ship apart from the inside out✊

My thoughts exactly.

​@@Dragon_Werks I wish they did show a war bird blowing up and collapsing in on itself in one show that would have been a hell of a scene to see because if the quantum singularity in the core cannot be shut down it would pull the ship in wards as she goes critical

Neeeerd

One of the DUMBEST moves ever by Picard and starfleet. The treat of Algeron is ridiculous. The UFP had way more ships more than capable of disposing of the Romulans.

​@@KnowTrentTimoy "more ships" which includes Miranda class, oberth class, ambassador class, excelsiors, and dozens of outdated ships still under service. And yeah starfleet has the ships, but does starfleet have the manpower to do all of this? Remember starfleet is a voluntary service, if you suddenly create conscription the planets would instantly riot.

@@Eradicator-jv9xr The UFP is made up of 100's of planets and the Romulans is just one species. I'm almost certain that if there was an all-out war between the two powers and the feds were up to it, their boundless resources and manpower would overwhelm the Romulans in the end.

@@KnowTrentTimoy the romulans use slavery.

Only one and it was a repurposed mining vessel

@@levyan4718 that is only the movie look at even games like STO that expanded upon them and gave variants, science engineering and tactical. While not practical it was perhaps more feared than even dderidex.

​@@levyan4718 uh no not the nerada, the scimitar, the one that whooped the enterprise E and 2 Warbirds.

​@@Eradicator-jv9xr Pffft hold my breast milk. Introducing the Enterprise J.

Star Trek the Next Generation. All good things. Part 2 Admiral Riker - " Allow me to introduce you to the USS Enterprise galaxy-class refit complete with assault Cannon."

What episode was that?

@@darylshort2729 I stand corrected. It was Voyager not DS9

​@BathrobeKeck The Promeatheous was assisting it in the end but the fact that Akira's had the ability to stand up to bigger and conceptually meaner vessels made it a mainstay of the UFP fleet for fighting needs

Did they actually eaven care about the new ship, there is an episode whit that, but I cant remember the federations reaction

He didn't just say a few, he said a few dozen. Big difference

As a side note. Nah they only had around 2 dozen galaxies. And they didn't built any more in the Dominion war. You would just build ships with the same firepower and non-of the exploration part. A Nebula as an examples literally has the same combat ability as a Galaxy other then less mass to take hits. The Federation had around 12k starships at the start of the War, but only about 24 Galaxies.

@@captainseyepatch3879 They had a lot more than that, depending on the source or combination of sources. Given what we know from on-screen evidence, behind-the-scenes, and discounting any "fleet building" games, I'd actually estimate the number at the start of the Dominion War as at _least_ 30 ships, and at least 40 Nebulas, with another dozen or so under construction, of both classes. Given that they used similar components, it wouldn't be terribly hard to finish the work on them with whatever parts were available and whatever new construction could be done, with a great deal of secondary equipment simply left out. Without all that extra science stuff, and all that extra power routed to weapons, both _Galaxy_ and _Nebula_ class ships are incredibly formidable. An often-overlooked detail is that the Dominion used Phased Polaron Beams instead of standard Phasers or Distruptors, which made shields useless. _ANY_ Alpha Quadrant ship would take an easy beating and be blown to bits fast if it had its shields down. The Dominion ships did have shields, but pure Jem'Hadar crews rarely used them. Doctrine during the war was to reroute Shield power to Weapons or Structural Integrity Fields. Now, also, think this: A _Galaxy_ or _Nebula_ stripped of most of its science equipment, diplomatic facilities, and without civilian passengers, could probably operate with a crew of about 400 or so, and have LOTS of sacrificial space not being used by anything/sitting empty. Another thought to keep in mind: D'Deridex class vessels were about the _only ships_ that the Romulans produced in numbers. At the same time, every square inch had a purpose. Nothing could easily be sacrificed (except perhaps not including dedicated landing/boarding troops). So, they had purpose-made vessels with a set order and somewhat limited flexibility. Galaxies and Nebulas had a lot of potential flexibility. Of note, Babylon 5 had one of their races do the same thing: The _White Star_ class ships were the only vessels the Minbari made after a certain point, so, this isn't without Sci-Fi precedence.

​@captainseyepatch3879 they had a lot more than 24 lol. You see several in every major engagement of the Dominion war. And where are you getting this 12k number from?

Ehhhh... some of the hate is warranted, though, since they were designed for diplomacy first and fighting as a last resort. As such, while it has a good weapons suite, that weapons suite could have been better, more powerful, and expanded (a second set of strips further up the saucer towards the center, for example, or additional dorsal arrays). Really, for their size, they could have been incredible warships.. but this is post-Kirk Starfleet: Peace at Any Cost. Fighting was reserved for when all options failed, and given that Starfleet tends to operate solo vessels instead of formations or task forces, it having 14 Phaser Arrays and 2-3 multi-shot torpedo tubes is a rather light armament for its size. Though, yes, a lot of people pooh-pooh that multi-shot launcher to bits, and I hate it. What those things are, is more or less a revolver cylinder of 5-6 Torpedoes that can be launched like a machine gun or shotgun - 5-6 miliseconds apart, or all at once in a spread, then it can swing the next cylinder into place and do it again, keeping up a blistering rate of torpedo fire, as each cylinder rotates out and is reloaded all at once. The previous _Ambassador-class_ ships had similar launchers, but smaller "cylinders" with a smaller spread and longer reload time. Non-refit _Excelsior-class_ ships just had rapid magazines - which, if my understanding of the technology is correct, is about a quarter of the rate-of-fire of one multi-shot launcher. They had two of those tubes in the forward firing arc, giving them half the ROF of an _Ambassador-class_ vessel, or about a third of a _Galaxy_ or _Nebula._ Given that at least half of the _Excelsiors_ still had this tech.. it's easy to see how much firepower a _Galaxy_ could present. Now, another thing: Keep in mind that the _Nebula_ Tactical Module gave it _two more_ forward multi-shot launchers, and one more aft launcher.

The pre Dominion War Galaxy not only matched the Warbird, it decisively outgunned them

@@BattlestarZenobia Ahh.. no, no it did not. The _Galaxy-class_ was barely a match in raw firepower, and itself was out-classed when the Romulan cloaking device is thrown into the mix. The two ships kinda balance each other out, as the _Galaxy-class_ generally had better crews initially chosen for them, whereas the _D'Deridex-class_ Warbird was mass produced. Pre-DW, if they had fought, the victor would really come down to the skill of the crew, and their captain. I went into detail about this on a clip covering Picard vs. two D'Deridex with two Klingon _K'Vort-class_ backing him up. In total, the _D'Deridex_ was to have 10-12 disruptors, and either 1 or 2 torpedo launchers. _Galaxy_ has 12 or 14 phaser emitters and 2 launchers. Both sides had multi-shot rapid-fire torpedo launchers. In terms of simple numbers, that's either an exact match, or a very slight advantage to the _Galaxy._ Just, right here, that's not "decisive" at all. Now, keep this part in mind: The energy output of both weapon types, and how they function, how they interact with adversary deflectors/shields. On-screen evidence generally pushes that Romulan Disruptors have a higher output/deal more damage than Federation Phasers. In addition, Romulan disruptors can be fired in bursts, whereas Federation Phasers can really only be fired in beams (from the _Galaxy-class_ at least), meaning the Romulan Disruptor is more versatile. When it comes to placement, they're roughly an even match, with both ship classes being able to fire at least one weapon system anywhere within a 360 degree sphere. Both favored frontal arcs, however, with the main phaser strips of the _Galaxy_ and the main Disruptor arrays of the _D'Deridex_ both facing forward, along with a torpedo launcher. The _D'Deridex_ has an on-paper edge in the 2360's with the cloaking device, though various methods to detect them were known more or less fleet-wide in Starfleet, after 2370. This is where crew skill and captain experience come in - tactics, and adaptation to the tactical situation. If the _D'Deridex_ captain is skilled, they could press this advantage with a sudden ambush, and even if the _Galaxy_ was on alert with shields raised, the Romulan would be able to get off at least a few unanswered volleys before the _Galaxy_ could return fire, and if they're smart, immediately recloak and run. If the _Galaxy_ crew is alert and experienced, they might be conducting sensor sweeps of the area far outside the _D'Deridex's_ weapons range and detect their ambush before it's sprung. And it only goes on from here. The two ship classes are an on-paper near equal as of 2368, with a slight edge to the Romulans. After 2370, they're pretty much an even match. After the Dominion War, the Federation has better warships, period. The _Galaxy-class_ does NOT "decisively" out-match a _D'Deridex._

That's well said explanation. Defenitely everything i want to say as well. Couldn't agree more. Still, this's my most fav ship for the romulan.

That's not a fair comparison. The same defense platforms decimated Klingon and Federation ships equally as well. Also by this time the Cardassians and Dominion were in arms race with Klingon-Federation Alliance. They were doing very well at the start of the conflict when they entered.

Ok those defense platforms were somewhat else they fucked up a lot of ships man.

the Treaty of Algeron was an in-universe explanation why Star Fleetdidn't have cloaking devices and to maintain the Romulans and Klingons as threatening powers. Because otherwise why *wouldn't* they have cloaking devices. If Star Fleet had a free hand they would have devices that were superior to anything used by the Rs or Ks. Because all Star Fleet stuff is mahoosively over-engineered compared to other major powers "I've found it wise to never underestimate the Federation's technical skill" - Weyoun

times changed and the warbird was aging at that point. plus the akira had a major manoeuvrability advantage. 90% of the warbird weapons were forward facing and designed for ambush/head-on attacks.

Depending on what multiple choice answers you accept as canon, I can bet that Starfleet simply saw anti-proton sweeps as superfluous to a certain point, when they had other methods available, and wanted to develop their own in-house solution - even if it ended up being based on Dominion tech. Starfleet hasn't really had a history of stealing or scavenging technology from captured vessels or enemy ships, or they'd've had ships made of Neutronium by the TNG era (the Doomsday Machine from TOS would have been captured ~100 years before the Galaxy-class ships were made). They prefer to innovate on their own.

Except that most of the size difference is wasted space in the center. It'd be more dangerous if it was filled out.

​​@@SujadThey are built to be menacing in first place. Comparable to a Galaxy, but appears a lot bigger.

​@@andreabindolini7452appears, but in actuality is not

@@Demiurge13 That's what I said

"The -sea- stars favours those who are under its protection, not -on the surface- detectable with sensors."

It's more or less confirmed at this point that the Romulan were always a paper tiger. Able to do a lot of damage in the opening of a war with the federation but never having an actual chance to beat them in a war. Think Japan vs USA in WW2.

I think the idea behind the Scimitar was that you only needed one, plus the thalaron radiation weapon. You wipe out entire planets at a time.

The Scimitar was built using stolen romulan tech and he only succeeded in his coup because he had the support of part of the romulan fleet.

The Treaty of Algeron between the Federation and the Romulan Empire prohibited the former from developing cloaking technology.

They signed a treaty that directly prohibited it. The Defiant of course was an exception and actually a joint project between the two signatories.

Just hit them with a targeting lock jammer and call it a day.

@@Not-Ap or Cryptic can hit me with a console that actually enables me to fire like NPCs do, like in Call of Duty, which has always been more level.

Yeah but lets be honest the borg are the biggest threat starfleet and the federation have ever faced so if u counter the borg u also counter the deridex. Especially if you consider that the Sovereign class went against the scimitar and won

"Never turn your back on a Breen". - old romulan saying

The dominion had more advanced phaser tech.

They had a seven-to-one advantage in numbers, too.

Someone else said it, but the D'deridex apparently wasn't built to fight entire squadrons of highly maneuverable and heavily armed smaller ships. They were more sledgehammers than nutcrackers.

Not really fair to state the Dominion "had no difficulty" in defeating the attacking fleet in that episode, as there wasn't a tabulation of the losses the Dominion took in that battle. The Dominion won, but at what cost? The Dominion could shrug off vast losses to gain victory.

I call your borg upgrade ships and raise you with the valdore and scimitar class.

Presumably the cloak hides those as well

Actually in ds9 they manage to find a singularity orbiting the station and turns out it was a d'deridex. But only because it was triggering some time jump in O'Brian after he had been exposed to some kind of radiation, I don't remember

The Romulans had a work around for that they alluded too when the Romulan Cloak officer on the defiant explained how to avoid the Jem'Hadar.