I know everybody hates on Toby for this one, however, it is so incredibly well written and filmed. It represents the true dilemma of how we need tremendously competent and intelligent people in charge of these important positions, however, because the average American can't see themselves within these people, they are no longer voted for or hold them. Being incredibly smart and intelligent is often a burden, and incredibly isolating.
@MichaelDarlingCo Жыл бұрын
No one paying attention hates on Toby for this or anything else.
@mightywind5888 Жыл бұрын
This scene is about the competing forces of being smart but also not feeling good enough. Plenty of smart people feel no need to be powerful and recognize the dangers of power. Other smart people weren't given what they needed as children and feel compelled to show everyone how great they can be. It's tragic because it will never be enough. They will never be enough until they recognize and address the real issue.
@MichaelDarlingCo Жыл бұрын
@@mightywind5888 I always thought Toby is Sorkin, sort of a narrator for the rest of WW cast.
@keithduvall8123 ай бұрын
Even though he is one of my favorite characters in the show and Richard is a great actor his leaking of the shuttle was his downfall. @@MichaelDarlingCo
@Vesperitis Жыл бұрын
Toby may have been out of line, but sometimes you _need_ people, friends, confidants to cross that line and hit you where you're the weakest, force you confront your greatest fears, and tell you to stop holding back so you can achieve your full potential. Bartlet's family love him too much to do that. The other staffers revere him. His enemies would have exploited him. Toby was one of maybe two people in the world (the other being Dr. Keyworth the psychiatrist) to push Bartlet like this, and Toby knew it. It takes guts to be the bad guy. This scene and many others is why Toby is one of my favorite characters ever.
@rafezetter80032 ай бұрын
1000% agreed. Everybody needs a "stop fking around and get on with it" friend, you'll be better for it.
@pbdye1607 Жыл бұрын
Toby did overstep here, but I also think the genius of this scene is that he risked his job to lay the foundation in Jed's mind that Ritchie was the same type of man his father was - an ignorant bully in a position of power that cows all those around and under him into dismissing his ignorance so long as he keeps winning. You see it in the debate episodes, and you also see it in the scene where Ritchie shits on him before a shared campaign event for being a smart liberal elite who thinks he's better than everyone else. Toby's pre-gaming here, he's not trying to piss Jed off for the sake of being edgy - he's trying to do what *someone* should have had the balls to tell Hillary in 2015: never underestimate your opponent.
@steveblixt9437 Жыл бұрын
Well said. For the last seven plus years, when I watch the coarseness and total loss of civility in politics and society in general, I often wonder what these lost years would have been like if Clinton had really gone after Trump, especially in the blue collar areas of the three swing states she lost by a total of 80,000 votes, and therefore the Electoral College. I like to imagine it would have been a totally different world if she had won, but who knows. 😔
@waynecampeau4566 Жыл бұрын
Agreed. The fact that Toby held this until the very late hours and almost whispered this to him shows just how well he knows the president. His loyalty is100%, but someone had to tell him the truth, and the President knows that Toby is one of the smartest men in the world and watches everything. He also knows that Toby would never cross that personal line unless there was a VERY good reason for it. The only other person that could tell him would be Leo.
@jdb316 Жыл бұрын
@@steveblixt9437 Hillary Clinton's problem was that she too was toxic. She could have gone after Trump until the cows came home, but she still would've been a very unpopular candidate in her own right who, in many voters' minds, "didn't get it." In the end we had two very unpopular major party candidates, and a lot of Americans voted for the unpopular candidate who at least represented something they saw as at least different and refreshing, or they voted for third-party candidates like Jill Stein and Gary Johnson out of protest.
@matthewrecord3405 Жыл бұрын
It's never an overstep to speak a meaningful and needed truth. To many people regard themselves as "truth tellers" when really they're emotionally reckless people without tact. Tobey isn't saying any of this for his own catharsis. It is a difficult but necessary truth Bartlett needs to confront because he can't win trying to out play Richie at his own game-or, at the very least, it wouldn't be good for the county if he did.
@yt_energy2 ай бұрын
remind you of anyone in politics now? an ignorant bully in a position of power that cows all those around and under him into dismissing his ignorance so long as he keeps winning.
@michaelhorton76 Жыл бұрын
If the show was just Bartlett and Toby in a room talking, I would have watched 10 seasons of it.
@terrypetersen2970 Жыл бұрын
People will say Toby crossed the line. Toby crossed that line for the love he had for Bartlet. This scene showed what Toby would do and even sacrifice for that love.
@Ladco77 Жыл бұрын
"Thank you Mr. President. And I'm taking the bourbon with me."
@lasalleman6792 Жыл бұрын
Toby's the best actor in the whole series. Has the best lines in the series too. Other actors were good, but the Toby character beats 'em all. Hands down.
@LeicaR103 ай бұрын
Toby is my boy. In an ensemble cast full of shimmering gold, Toby Ziegler
@electricfootballhero1349 Жыл бұрын
Weird resentment from a lot of the commenters here towards Toby. The man saw a threat to his boss' job, understood why his boss wasn't pushing back, confronted his boss and lit a fire that kept the show on the air for several more seasons, even after he himself had been kicked to the curb. And for all that, Toby "crossed the line" when he signed the contract to work for the Commander-in-Chief of the most powerful network drama and television history.
@cyberperson53 Жыл бұрын
In fairness, I dunno if it's so much "weird resentment" as it is "whoa, kinda harsh and outta line there Toby." Like, there's making a case that your boss needs to actively use his keen intelligence and intellect to defeat an inferior rival for his job, and then there's bringing up the fact that his physically abusive father hated him and throwing it in his face to motivate him. Sure, maybe it works eventually, but... could we perhaps find a strategy to achieve the same goal that *doesn't* involve traumatising the guy seems like a reasonable question to put out there.
@untexan Жыл бұрын
@@cyberperson53 The show demonstrated repeatedly that getting Bartlet riled up brought the best out of him. Even if he knew the right strategy, he might not completely commit to it unless he was driven to do it for some personal reason. Or if someone just plain made him mad. Which is why Abby cuts his necktie 30 seconds before the debate with Ritchie, and then Bartlet goes out there and obliterates him.
@cyberperson53 Жыл бұрын
@@untexan Sure, but again -- there's getting the man riled up and personally invested, and then there's outright traumatising him. Abbey cut his necktie, she didn't invoke the spectre of his abusive father's hatred for him and leave him unable to sleep for like a week or whatever it was. Was it necessary to go quite that far still seems like a reasonable question.
@RedGloworm Жыл бұрын
What I always find fascinating about this scene is that obviously the President could order one of his staff to immediately leave the Oval Office the moment he even came close to going there. But in this scene Toby had so gotten under his skin that he didn't. And with the comment about a 'Brooklyn Shrink's office' showed that he was very aware of what just happened.
@B2Roland3 ай бұрын
It's also a show..
@iandhr1 Жыл бұрын
This is why Toby has the leak never made any sense. This Toby Ziegler would never betray Jed Bartlet like that
@chattiermike140 Жыл бұрын
The writers post Sorkin didn’t get his character at all
@macdonaldukah1680 Жыл бұрын
Toby chewed Jed up and spat him out. Such invasive and incisive psychoanalysis. When Jed asks, "Why are we talking about this?", his head is bowed, as though he was beseeching Toby to stop oppressing him. Powerful scene!
@hanscombe722 ай бұрын
Imagine being described like that. “The Nobel laureate. Still searching for salvation. Lonely. Frustrated. Lethal.” It’s testimony to Bartlett’s intellect that someone even as accomplished and intelligent as Toby would refer to him as a mind that was dangerous. Then you watch Bartlett humiliate Richie in his debate.
@cyberperson53 Жыл бұрын
It's fascinating, because on one hand there's a valid point here, but on the other hand it's a perfect example of how Toby often gets so caught up in his cause that he ends up making it in possibly the worst way, because he just doesn't fully get how people work outside of his own moral positions. It's interesting to compare this with his debate about affirmative action with CJ in the same episode where he similarly just gets so caught up in his own righteousness, his own need to be win the debate and have his viewpoint affirmed as the unambiguously correct one, that he just doesn't acknowledge the personal angle and just keeps prodding and prodding until he realises too late that he's just completely trampled over the other person and their feelings.
@Liero1234 Жыл бұрын
Toby could've said the point better by just being more direct about it. "I think you have a blind spot with this guy. I don't think others will say it and so I am, I think you want to reconcile your differences with him and he's the type to drive all opposition into the ground. You're smarter, don't compromise or be passive with this guy. I think you have an instinct to." Don't put out the Brooklyn shrink thing.
@Dmon3k Жыл бұрын
But that wouldn’t have made for nearly as great television
@Liero1234 Жыл бұрын
@@Dmon3k Our political drama has too much drama and not enough politics!
@yt_energy2 ай бұрын
every President needs someone in their inner circle who will challenge them and not just be yes people
@lucasiracusa4362 Жыл бұрын
I don't know who are you or why you are uploading all these The West Wing clips on KZfaq, but bless your heart: you are a joy to see on my homepage
@PostHocErgoPropterHoc Жыл бұрын
Thanks!
@lucasiracusa4362 Жыл бұрын
@@PostHocErgoPropterHoc for real, it was a blessing to finally have someone upload so many scenes on their profile. You have any social media? I'd love to get in contact with such a big TWW fan
@PostHocErgoPropterHoc Жыл бұрын
@@lucasiracusa4362 you can find me on Instagram: mashindnevnik
@sreejitmenon09 Жыл бұрын
That excuse me was threatening lol
@TairnKA Жыл бұрын
So Toby keeps the glass. ;-)
@pedr5061 Жыл бұрын
Thank you
@carlrosa1130 Жыл бұрын
Even though I adore The West Wing, the writers would tend to push the boundary of imaginable and walk into the ridiculous. This would have never happened. Zeigler would have been transferred to a PR post in Yemen. But...because we love drama...it becomes memorable for the viewers. I totally get it.
@milesroy95642 ай бұрын
Martin Sheen never won an Emmy for this role!!!! The world sucks
@andrewroberts81392 ай бұрын
Sure but people will still be watching this in 50 years. In a way that means more
@kifacorea3 ай бұрын
This helps the case that toby leaking later DOES make sense.
@DeepikaGinger2 ай бұрын
What does his family signing the Declaration of Independence got to do with him potentially having an ethnicity problem?
@imcallingjapan21782 ай бұрын
He meant that his family going all the way back to those days and being part of American history meant he has NO ethnicity problem with the majority of voters, not the way that a black, Hispanic or Jewish politician would encounter.
@brontewcat Жыл бұрын
I think Toby was way out of line with all of this.
@matthewthomas6123 Жыл бұрын
I do as well. However he wasn't wrong. The scene in two cathedrals where the president is in the oval office and is imagining taking to Mrs. Landingham comes to mind here. Where she said something to the effect of your father was a prick who could never get over how he wasn't as smart as his brother. I think the same thing applies here the presidents father never liked him and Jed thinks that if he can just win one more time or do one more thing, that finally his father will pe proud of him rather than dispising him, which I think is what the president wants most of all.
@woohooboy Жыл бұрын
@@matthewthomas6123 - However valid Toby's point is, it was NOT his place to offer it. He was crossing a line (both professionally and personally) that he never should have crossed in the first place. Only Leo could have gotten away with this (being the CoS and best friend of Bartlett) but nobody else on the staff could or should have done this. Toby was way overstepping his boundaries in this scene....
@matthewthomas6123 Жыл бұрын
@@woohooboy Totally agree, just saying the the point he was making was valid. But still definitely not Toby's place to make it or say it. I don't even think Leo would have had a right to say what Toby said.
@matthewthomas6123 Жыл бұрын
Like I know I would never say what toby said to my best friend.
@vectorm4 Жыл бұрын
Totally agree with every comment. Toby was correct in his assessment; Toby was wrong to bring up the topic. I'm not quite sure why - in the context of the show - why Toby confronted Bartlett.
@RandallHallKaizenReiki Жыл бұрын
Toby had very, very few good moments. This definitely wasn't one of them. I did not miss him in the final season at all.
@imcallingjapan21782 ай бұрын
He did this for the right reasons: the country needed Bartlet, and therefore Bartlet needed to fight to be President. There was no personal gain for Toby, and Toby was risking everything by saying this but Bartlet needed something to spur him on.