What would you do to bring up these armies in need?

Honestly crazy how these two factions are arguably pretty elite in lore but are currently considered some of the worst factions/armies (at this time).

Those bent ass lightning claws caused me pain

Meanwhile, Imperial Fist and Raven Guard players decomposed into skeleton at the bottom of the lake.

Deathwatch: ~Primaris get special issue ammunition. ~Rework their secondaries

To fix them? I'd straighten out his lightning claws might help him land hits 😅

*Cries in Deathwatch fan*

The fact that very few units can now take deathwatch speciel ammo which is one of their main things realy limits them

I’d stop releasing new rulebooks each week and stay with one system

Give all Bolter weapons access to Special issue ammunition

Ad Mech can not be balanced. Even in their worst state Siegler was still winning games consistently with Ad Mech.

I'm more irritated that Deathwatch still doesn't have a bespoke killteam for KT2.0.

Gained the most potential points saving but in practice actually probably went up in cost. Your basic vet with a bolter ans power sword was only 25 points, now its something like 29. Deathwatch also didn't benefit from the changes to combat doctrines. Deathwatch have always struggled against marines so no surprise on that front. Another thing is that Votann basically remove the Deathwatch's entire gimmick, which is rerolling wounds against stuff which I think is the only example where an entire set of army rules is literally useless against an enemy

It would be great for deathwatch to get their army of renown back.

special issue ammunition, Deathwatch primaris

Deathwatch I can’t comment on but as as an Admech player, I think the only way to bring them up further is to give them either 1) further points cuts so you can run more bodies (doubt this will happen) or 2) all the army to have the round bonuses without their depreciations so it a flat bonus (i.e + 1 to BS without - 1 to WS or + 3inches to M without -1 to Sv) this way it would be a necron style buff where by the army receives a bonus that can only be used once per turn

God damn it, I own both an Admech army and a deathwatch army

Giving SIA back to all bolter weapons as standard instead of just Veterans would be a start.

Those 2 armies are as effective as that mangled lightning claw

Deathwatch also have the problem of being complex to field and a chapter tactic that’s only affective against xenos

That bent lightning claw! It hurts!

I think people also gotta realize that in terms of the free wargear buffed factions like Deathwatch it may take a bit for it to make an impact at tournament winrate as people gotta actually make the modles holding the correct loadoutss in the first place.

DeathWatch would need a rules rework to make them work, because most of their buffs and special rules only work vs Xenos faction, which you encounter quite rarely these days. Make their buffs work vs all factions, reduce a little points here and there (DW Kill Teams are more expensive compared to before unless you fully kit them out, because theri basic model went up like 7 ppm). The flexibility they have is cool but as for now, they simply cant keep up and punch hard enough to not get slapped in return.

Cant speak for deathwatch but as an admech player, i think they’re in a pretty good spot. They’re a difficult army to play and while most units don’t have a lot of synergies, the ones that do are very strong (rangers/skitarii+manipulus+marshal) The only 2 changes I think they need atm is: have a way to generate CP as the only way I found to do it is a vindicare using the priority target stratagem. And more synergies for Cult mechanicus

They might "gain the most potential points savings" but when you compare Deathwatch Veterans to, say, Sternguard Veterans, they're still overcosted. They also can't stay in Devastator Doctrine all game, which they would really benefit from.

Deathwatch (like adjacent many space marine factions) didn’t receive enough to compensate for the loss of Armor of Contempt.

I miss early 9th edition Admech with there painfully good codex

Astra Militarium 5% win rating Games Workshop back in 1995: yeah that’s fine

Pet the death watch claim one commands or special actions from each of three different space marine legions. As part of their integrated numbers and identity. As well as some relics. All depending on the total point ceiling for the combat. Give ad mech a special binary ability where if they have units of exactly two touching bases within range of other pairs, it adds invul saves or passive rad bonus/bane to their troops/enemies based on command points currently held. It'll be an interesting way to integrate more positioning tactics and account for their lesser melee abilities

From what I can see, for Deathwatch part of it is while we did get points cut for many of our units we didn't get it for the Proteus which is by far the strongest of them. Another problem DW has in metawatch is our small playerbase while we are struggling rn the data can be quite swingy

Are you suggesting that we allow the Adeptus Mechanicus to fall into disarray? *Yes Magos, this man right here!*

I waited years for A World Eaters codex and when I got it, it was an utter disappointment. They took removed more than 60% of the units that were available when they were under the CSM codex. AND they removed all berserkers' inherit ability to always fight twice per combat phase. The codex has no teeth (besides maybe Angron) and I almost wish now that they hadn't made it. I suspect to see them on this list soon unless they make some serious changes to the codex and soon.

Death Watches biggest strength and greatest weakness are the ability to create Kill Teams and the reliance on them respectively. In theory, the benefit of Kill Teams is being able to mix and match different Astartes units for their unique abilities. In practice, most players take 5 of the base troop and five of one type of extra unit and then split the kill team into two units. At that point you might as well just take two separate units. 8th edition had good reasons for wanting to create mixed Kill Teams and not break them up. Having one Biker let a whole kill team fall back and shoot, for example.

You could give them force target rerolls that can be activated when the player using them wishes. Even if it's very limited number, the ability to reroll your own or force your opponent to reroll is an excellent way to tilt the odds. Depending on how much you need to swing it, you can make the reroll only target success/failed die rolls by users choice. This takes it up another notch. Add in thematic conditions for activation and you can make it seem themed intentional instead of desperate balance making. The benefit of this trick is that it can be cancelled out under specific conditions that are found to be obnoxiously good. They only get the special force rerolls for trying out different strategies.

Bro the crooked lightning claws on that Deathwatch Marine

DW getting back their AoR would be a major help. They were very strong with it but we only got it for like 8 months and it was gone :(

Those poor Lightning Claws… 〰️

Anyone else notice the bent lightning claw?? 😂 all I can imagine is a space mating going mining for nose gold and forgetting he had his helmet still on. That said nice paint job!!💜

Pick any doctrine at the start of each turn and picking any battlefield role for army wide wound reroll at the start as well.

With the announcement that Admech are getting a 10th ed codex in Q4 2023, I'm excited to see them be a mid to bottom tier army for the last 2 years of the edition again.

make it so all bolt guns can use special issue ammo no matter what if it has bolt in the name it gets the ability

As a deathwatch main I can confirm, I am also slowly losing my insanity

For Deathwatch, make it so that Primaris units can actually use Special Issue Ammunition, make Veterans cheaper, and replace the first bullet point of their chapter tactic with something that works against everyone and not just Xenos factions. Yes, from a lore perspective, they're Xenos-hunting specialists, but they're also all supposed to be veterans who have seen many campaigns which presumably weren't all against the main Xenos factions. Besides which, Xenos factions have less players than Imperium or Chaos players meaning that bullet point of their chapter tactic, which already is pretty meh, doesn't work against a huge portion of the playerbase. It's telling that even in the year that the meta was dominated by Xenos that the Deathwatch wasn't doing particularly well despite having all of the targets they could hope for. Doesn't help that even their stratagems that specifically target Xenos aren't anything more than gimmicky/situational.

Admech right now are in a decent space now that we can see all of the codexes and balance them all. The problem is that Admech is probably the most complex army and is thus very hard to play. Admech also must be played right to win games. We don’t have pure power in our datasheets and have to use multiple stacking buffs to compete. Also proper use of stratagems is necessary. Basically admech is a glass hammer. Our main stratagems buff shooting vanguard/ranger bricks to dangerous and competitive levels. CP intensive. Then to have durability, we have to pay a lot of CP for stacking warlord traits and relics. It’s best to compare them to a top tier army, Custodes. Army with strong datasheets and stratagems that buff durability. They are very easy to play in comparison. My point is that admech doesn’t really need buffs (except kataphrons still suck). It would be nice to have a less complex codex to work with though. We even got some decent secondaries now. On paper Admech is fine, just in the hands of players it loses because it is hard to play well. Compared to a faction like Harlequins which should also be a hard to play technical faction which even got an undeserved hard nerf, still has good win rates. I’m guessing due to movement being king and tricky melee stratagems and abilities. Death watch need major rules changes, their rules are just broken and don’t work.

Good that i just started with 40k and decided to get Deathwatch cause I like the fact they gather Marines from different Chapters

Me who knows how op a deatwatch space marine is:

My eyes hurt from the paint job 😅😂 the deathwatch marine with claws, (specifically)

Unfortunatly i don't and can't play the boardgame, the figures are really expensive for me due to Argentina ecnomy and the fact that i'm jobless :c But i admit i would LOVE to have one of the painted figures just to exhibit on my desk, meaby something cool like the Guilliman figure with his helmet on, the figure of Ghazkull, or a figure of an imperial knight or one of those mutated chaos space marines.

Epic, at the exact point I painted my first army, my admechs, they're considered the worst :D

If you use the AdMech well they are ridiculous. They’re skitarri have a stratagem where they turn their rifles to rapid fire 2. Combined with the doctrina imperative that gives them a 2+ ballistic skill, and cawls reroll hit rolls of one,it’s hard to miss

I'd thin my paints before Duncan Rhodes thins my ranks.

THATS THE INVICTOR I SENT IN’S SHOULDER 😁

That thumbnail could only make me think… NYA HA HEH HA

You guys remember the dwarf droids from the Star Wars prequels? Give mechanicus something like that. A fast, hard hitting robot that goes in and hopefully gets out to strike again. Just an idea

I would THIN MY PAINTS

As a Dark Angel, I've got my own problems.

Idk about those two but, for the greater good I would like to see or an additional war philosophy and or named characters for another Sept or one that can go to any Sept except tau or farsight

Death watch I would balance out the point cost for their upgrades, and ad mech just need to something to replace the Kataphrons

Die hard deathwatch player here I think a little of the win rate is people just not understanding how to play deathwatch. But i do think a army wide specialized ammo for bolter weapons, Our base veterans should get either an extra wound or extra attack were suppose to be the Elites of marines. If they don't do that reduce the base cost of veterans to 22pts per model. Corvus should have a faq to allow it turn 1, and better secondary mission cull order sucks sucks sucks, and maybe allow dev doctrine twice for us not just the 1 time. I don't think they need a huge rework but definitely something to antiquate them to all the new rules and rule loss they have had.

Never regretting buying admech and turning them into a skaven section of my Guard army 😁👍

kinda funny the swing ad mech have had in 9th. Might just trickle back in 1 or two things that were nerfed.

Also me who have a Deathwatch at secondary army

Deathwatch struggles hard with major problems. 1.Xeno armies focus is hard coded into the army. If you're playing against chaos or Imperium, you don't get to use all of your unique options. If you do run into a Xenos army, congratulations, you get 1 maybe 2 special ways to affect them. 2.Free wargear and better doctrine rules means there's really no reason as any major SM army can take their veterans with wargear at better pts cost. 3.Their one interesting feature with boltgun ammunition is only usable on deathwatch veterans. If they were given army wide to every bolt weapon available that would make it amazing.

Fox deathwatch? Being back my universal SIA

Deathwatch just need their old special issue ammunition rule back

The Deathwatch are the only chapter that doesn’t benefit from the new combat doctrines rule. So fixing that would be a start! And then giving all bolter weapons access to special issue ammo, as others have said, would be a nice boost to damage output and flexibility too. I also think it’s weird how deathwatch vets and terminators have to pay over the odds on points compared with other factions. Free missile launchers for DW termites please!

Admech needs their datasheets to be rewritten, basically throw their codex to the bin and start anew cause this is simpler then fixing them by giving them mini "fixes" making them cheaper and cheaper untill they feel more hordy than guard and 'nids

Deathwatch Changes Needed: - SIA to all bolter-based weapons (first born and primaris) - Give back the discounts on specialisms - Retain AoR - Fix flyer transports to be exempt from the reserves rule... or at LEAST make the Corvus exempt since its strategem is useless

Honestly, for admech, bring back the 5 up invuln, change the rifle back to assault 1, make Transuranic Arquebi more powerful, and make the Icarus array more viable against ground troops. Allow them to fix any imperium unit. Finally strengthen the rust stalkers, those units are dope but weak after.

ad mechs core problems is they are very complicated to play you must connect many skills when you want play effective while other faction strong singel effects or skills have

The main issue is secondaries and synergy. Yes the MFM gave particular marine armies loads of extra points but the doctrine changes and the secondaries for this season heavily favour those that can benefit from all this synergy at once. Ie Devastator doctrine armies that can benefit from the points drops to take units to auto score codex warfare etc. Just fix the deathwatch chapter doctrine so it’s not a literal nerf to the core codex and give them a new secondary. Also, just reprint their army of reknown. For a small bonus maybe edit the primaris kill team so they can include the new desolation marines and DW will be *fine* if not crazy good.

im sorry but what is the color used for the admech? thats a very nice blue and i might wanna use it

As a DW player, we need the special ammo in all bolt weapons. As well as an increase in its values since they are MVP marines in the end... For Adeptus...more variety and less obligatory CP usage

Raven guard needs buffs and their Corvus

Sad, im new to the hobby and deathwatch would be my sm faction of choice, luckily i went with completely opposite route with orkz

I see texture in paint job do you utilize a lot of dry brushing ? pretty neat

Damn that's actually really surprising because one of my best friends plays admech and I'm not kidding here, he's never once lost a game with them. Every single time I've seen him run his admech, he has won

The one in deadwatch looks like Ainz....

The Omnissiah disapproves

One argument I saw as to why the Admech are still suffering is that they rely so heavily on stacking warlord traits and relics and the limited CP in the current season keeps them from accessing their full power despite having their nerfs reverted.

Please god just make them simpler, it’s horrible for both sides to have to whip out a flowchart to even attempt to co-ordinate wtf is happening

*cries in ravenguard*

Admech really need to rework kastelan robots. I think the toughness rework in 10th could either help them tremendously or make them unplayable. They are one of admechs most iconic units… i would like to see them with a lot more overall bulk. Either that or the datasmith (who only has 3 wounds and can be easily picked off)

How the winner of the Las Vegas open was Ad Mech or he is the 45 percent win rate.

Back in 3rd Deathwatch was so ridiculously overpowered, it was insulting. How times have changed.

Give admech back 3+ hit rolls

*cries in techpriest*

As an ork, space marine and tyranid player im fine but im still waiting for an actually good ranged unit for orks and more imperial fist themed marines AND maybe a new terminator armoured character unit cuz my army of marines is literally space hulk but without claws a flamethrower and a librarian (claws are shit anyways)

How to currently balance the game complete codex resets. Actually playtest and put actual game designers from outside genres make the rules. Sometimes it's better to bring someone from the outside in with a fresh perspective. Also hire on the top world player and top world list builder to playtest or release simple rules with key style in my mind for units such as tank, dps, healer, and aoe.

Give special issue ammo to all bolters with rapid fire for deathwatch. Let them take centurions as well. Watch the win rate for them change when people take units of 6 centurions with hurricane bolters that can all have more range and AP, damage, or better wound rolls.

I just want new Imperial Knights or Armiger variants.... but I await patiently

Better secondaries and stratagems. And please boost some points on the mechanicas omg

I'd tell deathwatch to finally embrace nurgle and go deathguard

Shit, I just realised the weakness of "the weakness of my flesh"

Deathwatch: improve their war gear rules Mechanicus: Bring back all of their crazy

That’s wild that you could spend like 4K on an army just to literally not have a chance to win lmao

Death guard sadness*

As a deathwatch player myself. Primaris should get special issue ammunition, add more killteam types Buff watch captains and the watchmaster as currently they arent that good, before they were a very good choice to take. Increase their ballistic and weapon skill as they are ment to be elite so it only makes sense.

I just think from a fundamental stand point the death guard is flawed. It would be cool to have a space marine army that you can cross over different units from different chapters and have something crazy death wing terminators fighting along side commander Dante. If playing death wing specifically you’d need to tweak certain units within the codex for it to work. But it would allow more freedom and an interesting army to boot

Changes are out a few days: "These changes are useless"