Statistically there will be people in these guys class who are gay and terrified to come out for fear of this ridiculous judgment.

I would like to have Josh & Jax call back in this year. See how they changed in the last 6 years.

it never fails to make me laugh out loud when chrsitians say ' it not our place to judge ' when they do nothing but judge other people

The fact there even is a thing like an apologist class is disgusting. They should take an apology class instead.

Even if a god exists i wouldn't care less about its views on what consenting adults do in private

I find it weird that a school would have a class dedicated to teaching arguments built on fallacies and unsupported premises.

Josh and Jax's first mistake was taking an apologetics class at school. There are no good arguments that ever come from that.

Props to the caller for TRYIN'...he still young...maybe he can see the 'light' and come out from the 'dark side'.

God giving different rules to different people just because he can get away with it. Sounds a lot like a human invention to me

It freaks me out that decent sounding humans like these callers are willing to strip away peoples human rights, just because some book told them to. It’s bonkers. These kids should think long and hard about that, and I really hope they do.

Onward Christian stoners! I like to think that somewhere in Colorado there is a deep cover atheist teaching apologetics and incentivizing kids to call in and have the flaws in their belief structure pointed out.

compliments Josh & Jax for their civil discourse and polite approach to "apologetics". I suspect their teachers would not have been so respectful since they are the ones who decided it was important to teach "apologetics" to youngsters in the first place.

How to prove the existence of a deity. Ask them to show up and demonstrate they are a deity. I'll wait!😐😑

The kids after this call: "Are we the baddies?"

When I hear "apologetics student", I can't stop seeing Dawkins talking to Alex O'Connor about his theology degree and asking him what it was like to spend four years studying make believe.

He sounds like the kinda guy that would be going on about how "the human brain evolved to smoke weed, man"

an easy example to give when people say "well the the different books of the bible fit so well together, they must come from a true source" is how we depict unicorns, dragons and elves in fantasy stories. they all are very similar, have very similar indicators and often, if not always, share the same background stories. does that mean theres real dragons , unicorns and elves we took them from?

God bless atheism 🙏

I agree with this school. We should encourage people indoctrinated by religion to talk to people like the hosts of these kinds of shows.

If god is against 2 guys making out, why did he put it into the world ?

It's interesting that while Leviticus condemns male homosexuality, it's completely silent about lesbians. Apparently god is cool with girl on girl sex.

Ain't no apologist course in science school.

The concepts of "faith" and "objectivity" are diametrically opposed. If you have one, you cannot have the other.

I had conversations like this when I was younger where it sounded like logic wasn’t landing but I just wasnt ready to let my guard down yet. I thought about all the rational points I heard for months and years after hearing them and ended up de-converting in my early twenties. These dudes seem chill. They’ll probably be fine

Nothing religious baser can ever be called objective for the very reason there have been thousands of different gods

I appreciate that you guys treated them with such kindness and patience. It can be tempting to perform a debate coup de grace when you have someone against the ropes like that, but easing off and letting them try another tack over and over will likely be better for their growth as people in the long run.

So far every time that I ask for clarification from a theist on what their process is for determining when something exists/is true they are never able to tell me. Any guesses as to why that is?

Oh dear, christianity’s best and brightest 🤪

Apologists are experts in making excuses.

So bizarre how they always cling to the not murdering commandment as the pinnacle of morality. Yet their entire belief system is based upon a loophole created by jesus. Which absolves people from their wrongdoing so long as they repent and accept jesus before dying. According to their own beliefs no one needs to follow any these commands in order to be save forever. It’s the exact opposite of a moral belief system.

I LOVE these throwback shorts. It’s great to rehash some of these segments from some of the old shows. Keeps the mental juices flowing. Please keep them coming!

Looks like someone is going to fail their apologetics class.

This was over in less than 3 minutes.

It sure was rough deconverting mostly on my own. I wonder if this would have made it easier. This show almost always makes me cringe. Well, the callers do anyway.

Great job, one of the best. cheers Atheist experience.♥

been a long time since I've tuned. Glad to see this is still happening

Theists never give the true answer for why the believe something. Because someone told them to. That's it. My parents and paster/preacher/whatever said so so that's the word of God. God didn't tell you anything, you're just listening to what other people say God says, and spoiler alert, none of them heard it from God either.

6:10 Orientation is a-moral, as in, it isn't a question of morality. Anything wrong that people of the "incorrect orientation" could do is just as wrong as if anyone else did it, but it has nothing to do with the orientation itself, it's an individual behavior problem. Benthem figured this out like 200 years ago and still humans are going back and forth on it. We live in The New Dark Ages

If the bible is god's words, he should at least tell us which version to consider... Weird...

If over forty people having written the Bible is proof of God then the same is proof of Spider-Man.

"thats my job" hahahaa awesomeness

Why would you take a class in flailing and failing? That's not sarcasm. You don't go to med school to write horoscopes. Why take a class to present fallacies? If all of their methods are worthless there is literally no benefit to be had unless you want to con people.

Christian apologetics is so stupefyingly weak and uncompelling.

Talk about owned! lol 😂

This video is excellent evidence for Josh and Jax to receive a refund from their university

The caller sounds like a hippy from a Saturday morning cartoon show

Weird how Jesus did all these miracles but didn’t cure cancer, germs, FLU, greed, etc. just forgave sins that people are still praying to be forgiven. WTH

I hope their next call was to Recovering From Religion.

The difference between a guy in a room who makes the rules and God is the guy is real and will beat the shit out of you if you don't agree with him. God on the other hand is an invisible being that people believe to exist and imbue this being with power to make all the rules for the room when God has not actually demonstrated to have the hard knuckles that he will beat you with. I think to have your impressionable high school students calling this atheist show so they can "debate" with the heavy weights is a mistake on the teachers. If these callers were not trolls, then there is a good chance that the class assignment had backfired on the school. The worst thing you can do that goes against your self interest as a tyrant is to allow your subjects be exposed to contrarian ideas. This is why kings don't want his people to learn to read and travel outside his kingdom.

And currently the catholic church is almost ok with gay marriage. So much for gods objective unchanging laws

Parents don't teach their kids not to murder? Seriously?!

D+ for effort.

Surely the Bible DOES cover abortion, in Numbers 5:11-31.

And I'll bet my life that their teacher just said "thanks for putting up with their nonsense. Sorry you had to deal with all of those bad arguments. here's your A."

I’ve never understood why anybody would go to a religion school.

Caller states Paul's reference to women inferiority is an exception because it only relates to women in a church role. So I ask him, If you're not living you're religious beliefs in secular society, why do you practice religion at all? Second question; would you vote to restrict women's right to vote? I'm asking for a serious answer only.

Theists are good people because they are following orders and have a fear of enteral damnation. Atheists are good people because we choose to be. No orders needed, no fear. Who’s goodness and morality is purer.

Apologetics taught at a school? America is a strange place.

How do we know that the Bible writers didn't include their OWN BELIEFS , and then claim its God's words?😮

Would be nice to know how they are doing now.

i don't know what they teach in ' christian school ' ( not much if these two are anything to go by ) one big circular arguement

1 do no harm 2 enjoy yourself, higher power redundant.

27:07 Hosts should've asked Josh and Jax what the point of a State is if God is the one who's supposed to judge others?

Do you guys have any clips from hosts that didn’t leave on bad terms?

These guys are GREAT!!! They are at the point where they are persuaded that they can intellectually argue for their religion - and here are smashed in withe their faces into that being a total lie. I do not take any offense in them trying to argue their way out, anybody tries to do that, and SHOULD do that. It is tiring to be in an almost endless loop, but that it does not work any other way. Is being gay wrong? - Yes - Why? - Because God says so, and what God says is right - So you go against gays - No - Why not - Because we think it is their thing, and it is not for us to judge - But you just said it is for God to judge, and God says gay is wrong. So is God's judgment gay is wrong correct? - Yes - So what is your judgement against gays? - It is not for us to judge - And on repeat... They are trained to have an automated short circuit in their brain, that interrupts the argumentation and resets it to a safe condition. Their own programming is not perceiving this interrupt subroutine at work. I think in the moment you get them to realize this, the dam is busted. Then it goes quicker and quicker to see this short circuit in action. It takes a lot of work, but it is worth it. It took me decades of catamaran sailing to undertand you have to analyze your actions on the boat and what it means. And then I understood that the central part is that you MUST be able to sheet out the mainsheet at ANY time to take out the pressure from the sail. And for that the angle of the cleat must be correct, you must sit in a certain way at a certain point so that your arm and your hand is at the right position that, whenever you pull at the sheet, it comes out AND STAYS out of the cleat, and you can release the sheet just as much as is needed. Since I understood that system, I hardly ever capsized. Before, again and again something was not quite right that you needed additional time to get to that sheet out point, maybe half a second, but that can be too much. Beginning with for laziness having the sheet not in the hand, so you first have to grab it. Splash. The cleat is too low, nice to have it belayed and no pull on it, but you cannot pull down to uncleat, you have to let loose first, then flick it out of the cleat, then stay low, low, low to not cleat it in again. You're in long before that. You do that mostly because of laziness, until you find out having the sheet always out and have the pull constantly on your arm is in the long run way less exhaustive than uptrighting the boat and climbing on top of it. And in my scenario of daysailing, when my arm gets tired, I can simply go back. I know, sailing is not believing - but the determination to look into the problem until you have understood it and see the interactions is.

They massacred my boy lol.

Objective morality is the Laws of the land 😅

I hate knowing that these guys will go back to class only to have their teacher review this video and make up deceptive explanations for everything they tripped up on.

J & J seem to have thought about god and morality and are making a real effort to understand the topic. As always they are unable to provide any evidence that can be scientifically challenged or verified.

I don’t have faith in faith I don’t believe in belief You can call me faithless But I still cling to hope And I believe in love And that’s faith enough for me Neil Peart, RUSH ;-)

Why is it bad for adult dudes to entertain themselves but ok for a Christian adult dude to entertain an underage dude.

40? how do you know that? nobody knows beyond a wild guess

No way the video lasts for more than 30+ minutes

Oh this is classic 😎😎😎

All throwbacks?

Paul said slaves are to obey their masters, not Jesus.

Given the improbable proposition that a zygote, embryo, or fœtus is an actual person, what right does that person have to be inside a woman where she doesn't want him, or her?

Both of the dudes on this call are probably together, and they're just coping for their own insecurity with Christianity

Just work it out guys ok we can work it out, we can work it ooooouuuut. Comon people now, smile on each other everybody get together, try to love one another right now

something I just thought of when you were talking about people writing the bible. If god gives free will, then how would we know that the authors wrote what he told them to write? They would have a choice to lie and write whatever they wanted. And of course, others could have just said that god told them what to write, but we already know that argument. But free will destroys the validity of the bible. I never thought of that before.

19:56 Ok so two people read the Bible and one person thinks it’s ok to eat shellfish and another doesn’t. So that’s supposed to prove that the Bible is not a reliable source of morality? Just because one of them is wrong doesn’t mean that the source was wrong. Two people can read a speed limit sign and one can say that’s just a suggested speed and the other can say no that’s the maximum speed. Would that mean that the speed limit sign is not a reliable source of conveying the speed limit? Your logic is flawed here because it’s not the interpretation of the law that matters it’s what the law actually says that matters so just because someone failed to acknowledge what the Bible law actually says doesn’t mean that the law itself is inadequate.

josh and jax or better known as dumb and dumber

Every theist response to anything: God is God so your secular view is irrelevant. Forget your secular view in order to be right.

Why did this call become all about gay male sex?

Remember, most human beings today and in history are/were Asians and thus Buddhist and Hindu. The Judeo Christian book is very.....parochial.

What Christian belief and what Bible do they use also determines the amount of bias towards people they believe in the wrong. Read numbers chapter 11.

It's not fair yous guys! You don't even give a liberal Christian a break! Lol

I say kudos to these kids for calling in. That’s not easy. I’m sure many of us here can relate to their ways of thinking when we were indoctrinated at that age too. Hopefully, they will think about these conversations down the road.

it’s what you have faith in!! also 2 people can have faith and be wrong! both of these atheist are taking tangents and twisting words to fit their narrative! You can continue to speak against God all you want, but someday when you face him, you will pay for Mercy, and it will be too late.

Back in biblical times women were not permitted to own property so when the bible says to love your neighbour it is specifically talking about a man not people not men and women it means a man

Oh poor guy. Yeah He'd get an F in rational thoughts on that one. Sorry buddy. You first consider faith an acceptable method to determine what god wants, then you agree that you can have faith in things that are wrong and then you turn right back to using faith as a method.

God is a male. Why can the supreme being not be a female?

They are gonna be atheists by the end of the year! Hope they'll call back then

how about no apologetics and nobody cares your beliefs get a job

Josh and Jax making claims they can't back up with any proof.

Let's try a little thought experiment. Let us presume, for this thought experiment, that there is no God and the Bible is just an ancient culture's mythology book. Something like Homer's Ilyad or Aesop's fables. Mythical stories that this ancient culture tells itself, to encode its values, laws, morals and its history (not necessarily 100% accurate but rather what these ancient people tell themselves are their historical origins in mythological form). Then, if we look at this deity's code for sexual conduct, can we make sense of it, not as a real deity's wishes, but as an ancient culture's collective self-imposed code? "Go forth and multiply". Okay, so they want to increase their population size. The story of Onan. His brother dies, but as is this culture's customs and traditions, Onan must take on his dead brother's reproductive duties and responsibilities to that society - including taking his dead brother's wife to his bed to fulfil the cultural need to produce more babies. Note that this one isn't even in the subtext. This ancient culture is known - it's right there in the text - to have this tradition. You take your dead brother's wife and make her pregnant, "on behalf of" your dead relative. So they take increasing the population size very seriously, to the point that, if they lose someone, they culturally require that man's brothers to perform "double duty" to make up the difference. And God's angry with Onan because he pulls out and "spills his seed" on the ground. He's enjoying the sex, but avoiding the reproductive "duty" upon him to get his dead brother's wife pregnant to keep up the baby production. Treating women as inferior, the "property" of their husbands? Well, to overcome the high infant mortality rates that have existed in history - only in the modern era has humanity tackled this historical problem that around 1 in 3 of all babies born never made it to the age of 5 - and to get those population figures rising, the women pretty much have to be "baby factories" for this ancient culture. Allowing them a choice would risk them saying "no" to this cultural mission to raise the population - they might be more interested in having a career instead - so you culturally remove that choice. Women are the "property" of their husbands, to keep cranking out as many babies as possible. So we can see that this god's prohibition of homosexuality? Well, the real problem is that the gays ain't naturally creating any babies (not amongst themselves anyway). That's the true "sin" by this culture's values. They are an "abomination" for not joining in with the baby-making mission, to inflate the size of that culture's armies, so the culture can dominate and conquer its neighbours. Basically, stack these "sexual laws" up and the underlying thrust of all this is "we need more babies". The aim is to increase the population size. To make the culture bigger. To produce more soldiers for its armies to dominate and conquer its neighbours. To avoid - in an ancient time where cultures were measured in thousands, not millions or tens of millions - their culture's power and influence waning, from declining population, and potentially going extinct. To counteract the losses that came from their neighbours warring and invading them - the culture needs more soldiers, not simply to have the biggest army, but to replace the soldiers who will inevitably be killed in those constant frequent wars between ancient cultures. They need to keep making babies to "replace" the fallen soldiers, to maintain having the biggest army. All of this God's sexual rules can be seen to line up with a cultural policy to increase population size to ensure the survival of that culture, by becoming the most dominant and conquering culture - to win their wars and not go extinct. "Survival of the fittest" - biggest culture wins. And consider that if, today, our leaders told us "we want you to crank out more babies, as we require more 'cannon fodder' for our armies" then, yeah, we'd rightly tell them "no". Who are these leaders to tell us how big our families should be - particularly when they're only saying "bigger! bigger! bigger!" because they want more soldiers to win more wars - so they want you to make more babies, as they're going to send them to war and get a lot of them killed. And these are your sons and daughters we're talking about. But if those leaders instead say that there's a creator god and this creator god wants them to be producing more babies, and this creator god gets angry and burns them in Hell forever, if they disobey... then you can trick this population into making more babies, with a simple "Noble Lie". "No, no, it's not that the leaders want bigger armies. It's that the creator god wants you to obey his sexual rules... which just so happen, by pure coincidence, to concentrate on increasing the population, which'll give our culture the biggest army. It's not that I want a bigger army, it's that God wants you to do things that just happen to create a bigger army for me to control." Let's try out that thought experiment and then go through these ancient texts... and realise that, suddenly, all of this god's rules and laws and plans just so happen to align with an ancient culture's wants and needs to increase its population, to win wars, to become the dominant and conquering culture of their local area. What a coincidence!

its not only what the bible thinks.....its unnatural....

THOSE APOLOGETICS GUYS DID SOME NICE TAPDANCING AROUND ADMITING THEY HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO REASON TO BELIEVE ANYTHING THE BIBLE SAYS IS TRUE , INCLUDING WHETHER JESUS AS GOD EXISTS . BET THEY WERE REAL SORRY THEY EVER CALLED

Young man, your argument is falacitious and incoherent.

Jesus never mentions slavery. The obey your masters statement comes in Ephesians.