So, I'm a big fan of 'hybrid' navigation. I was trained in the 'old school' map and compass navigation, and I enjoy doing it. However, I think it would be foolish to ignore the fact that in many cases we are each carrying multiple independent GPS devices on our bodies, which can be used to assist us in navigating. The end result is getting from point A to B safely, and how you achieved that doesn't necessarily matter as much as the fact that you've gotten it done. I always feel 'naked' without a map and compass in the hills, and generally speaking I don't do it - and even if I don't have a 'normal' OS map for an area, the likes of Anquet etc make it very simple to print out a couple of copies of the area I'm going to be in, in a couple of different scales - and I've found those to be absolutely fine for navigating from. But I'm also always carrying a mobile phone with a good outdoors GPS app using OS maps, a power bank, and a Garmin GPS watch which can provide me with a grid reference. My personal 'workflow' for navigation is to try and get some kind of average of everything together, and use that to plot a physical map position, and use old fashioned map (and compass if needed) nav with GPS as a backup and sanity check. If the weather is nice and I can crosscheck my position visually with reference to the map, I usually crosscheck with my GPS devices to see if we're all in the same boat, or how big our circular error probable is. For a quick check, it can be really useful to pull out the phone and quickly go 'right, I've got another 150m height gain to go'.

I am part of search and rescue and a trainee ML. I did my training 11 years ago and things have so vastly changed! In SAR using outdoor active is becoming a critical tool to show how accurately we have searched an area. The GPS on mobile can prove we did what we say we did, and much more accurately share a location that paper ways, I’m definitely a convert!

Nice. A good video, thank you. I've been teaching nav for nearly 20 years, and as you'll know, understanding the map, orientation and relocation are key. Much simpler to learn all these on physical products. Apps do take the stress out of working out where you are, as long as the user can interpret what they see correctly, in which case, apps are very fast and efficient to nav by. Also, apps can be used in conjunction with paper maps to verify your location ( like having 2 people navigate). The downside of apps is that often casual users don't have the skills to interpret what they see, similar to trying to use a Kindle without knowing how to read.

Totally agree. A proper OS app from OS or memory map are excellent so long as they are downloaded and require no cell service. They are also excellent at confirming how your physical map and compass skills are as they directly correlated. My recommendation is to test these skills for a proportion of your hike either micro navigation during clear weather or safe passage when the weather is challenging, if your could encourage people to almost treat it like a competition you may get unskilled person skilled in an enjoyable way. With these apps you can print maps which are less cumbersome.

Good video mate and some valid points. It's definitely something that should be included in courses. After all you have to prove you can drive with a Satnav in a driving test so we do need to move with the times. I've been using a phone as my primary navigation tool for years now. The problem is you still need map reading skills to navigate safely with a phone otherwise the user is just going to follow a little blue line on the screen with no real knowledge of the lie of the land or any skills to execute a plan B and take a different route.

Nice rational analysis Craig. For me the elephant in the room is people's over confidence in their own abilities in general. It was only last month that I witnessed a group of walkers turn up in the Lakes specifically when the elements turned bad to get out in inclement weather. I'm not in the position to judge individuals skills and experience but it did make me consider this as a potential factor in relation to things going awry. Atb Andy

To a large degree, I do agree with you about the compass/map use, but much less than previous years. Here in the USA, apps like Gaia, Onxoffroad, and my personal favorite Maprika (the only unpaid app), have really changed the game. With Maprika, I can download actual physical maps (before my trip or on trail if I have a signal) that have been scanned into electronic format and overlay my GPS location as well as topographic data and/or satellite view onto the maps for near precision location. And with all of the starlink satellites, GPS here has gotten much more accurate as well. I do still carry a compass and map with me, as well as a electronic GPS, both for backup, but being able to open my phone and take the guess work out of it is my main choice.

Hi guys I watched all Craig’s tutorials on map skills and I highly recommend you all do to. You won’t find a more complete easy to follow and absorb map reading video.

Completely agree I also was trained as an ml to use map and compass exclusively and my trainer was upholding the old school mantra However technology has advanced and a lot of the reasons for not using apps are no longer valid A good back up battery overcomes the negative that batteries run out of charge also satellite reception is rarely unavailable The inclusive approach is to be commended Understand maps and ability to navigate is a basic necessity That combined with the apps really equips one hugely It would be a huge step forward for the training bodies to actually include the use of mobile phone apps in their syllabus

Hey, I think MT syllabi are more embracing of technology, as the arguments against them become weaker as tech, waterproofing, battery life improve. They are certainly part of the tool kit. Everyone has one any they are super helpful bits of kit so no stigma from me. But always backed up by a physical map. One issue is though to use an app most effectively you still you understand mapping/ symbols. And if there is a problem they’re no back up plan with our a map. I don’t think I’m ready to say “take a map but if you can’t this I’d the best app”. I also think the people who won’t take time to learn a map are less likely to learn an app course online. Particularly the last minute holiday makers you describe. The problem is people think “it won’t happen to me”. Agree we need to keep having this conversation

Was at a Canadian National Park (2969 square kilometers) and no topographic maps were available for purchase. So even though the Parks service had the standard you should have a map and compass, hikers could only get line maps drivers use for the main roads.

Making recommendations could be a real liability issue for those who blame others. Knowing how to use a map and compass is a great skill, I quite like checking the map then using OS locate to tick off that I am where I am. I think you certainly need to have a dedicated outdoors app. I came across a woman who was distraught because she didn't know where she was on google maps! Luckily the way back to the road was in sight. I do love a mix of both and use Backcountry Navigator which gives you all the OS maps for £10 and logs my hikes. It certainly helped out earlier this year, planned a hike that would end at nighttime on Kinder Scout however as dusk came a heavy fog rolled in, few miles on the hard path down Jacobs Ladder was fun. It was slow enough going with GPS. I think the other side to this as well is what to carry on you, the mountain rescue sites have lists like a torch and whistle for a reason. I know if push came to shove I had the gear on me to stay put for the night.

I agree with all your comments. Yes it is time to incorporate phone apps. Modern phones are mini computers digital mapping, GPS and all sorts of other features. Is the question; How can they best be used by people new to getting outdoors to, safely, go there and back again. The phone mapping is good, much better than 1:50k OS maps that I am comfortable to navigate by. Help them use it and carry a back up charger.

Here in Canada on Vancouver Island, I use GaiaGPS. I have downloaded the map and layers of the areas that I explore. I can use topo, satellite, and various other styles of maps. The GPS pinpoints me in any weather. In the wintertime it can be foggy and miserable so trying to see anything beyond 20 feet can be very challenging at times and trying to find landmarks can be impossible. I would not go out exploring without GPS. We have the technology and should embrace it. I also have a Zoleo Satellite Communicator for emergency situations. I do not go out without having that on me. I used to navigate with physical maps in the past and will re-educate myself on using map and compass, but in the deep forest on a foggy day, I believe that GPS is the better option to get you out. Make sure to carry a power bank and a secondary device if possible (which for most people is their cellphone). One other thing to bring along is flagging tape to mark your trail. This is very useful when exploring new areas. Just my thoughts 💭

Nice one Craig, cheers Mike

Interesting topic indeed, of course I'm old school as you would expect from a viewer of this channel, however, apps do have there place if they are accurate and give you enough information. I only use OS digital subscription that reason. Unfortunately a lot of people use apps lacking any real detail and information and when it fails... How to educate people? Not sure you can, if it doesn't occur to them that the mountains and hills can be a dangerous place you've got no chance.

It’s an interesting debate - and I agree with you I am an experienced hiker and know how to use the map and compass I always carry - but my No1 method is the downloaded OS Map on my phone (with a spare battery) why? Because I carry it anyway so why not use it. To help casual walkers it would help if the cost of the OS quality type map was reduced - because I am sure that is a major factor in people not using them Thanks for the debate

I use both map and compass and also outdoor active app ( was viewranger) mainly for buddy beacon as easier for the wife or whoever to follow me

Why do you think people will do online learning and more than other learning? That's an attitudinal issue which I can't see changing just because it's easy. I suspect the people that will do online learning are the people most likely to do map and compass training. We cover electronic aids in NNAS courses but your point about highlighting which app is better in UK mountains is a good one.

I spend a vast amount of my time in the rockies and have done for decades , I come across people with digital maps etc and they work great as long as you have power. also where i live there is just about no cell coverage in the mountains so unless you have a sat phone you are out of luck. many sites such as altrails are referred to around here as all fails and routes are based on track data laid down by people that have no clue where they are going and consequently every person that follows that route will also get it wrong. , a map and compass is a must, so is full survival gear and the knowledge on how to use it are essential . I come across so many lost people in the mountains its not funny . no gear no map, all out on a sunny day hike that can turn into a full on blizzard in less that a few hours around here. I have had people argue with me on routes through the mountains because altrails says this or that, the difference is I have traveled those routes I know what river crossings are still possible i know what trails still exist . so bottom line is map compass survival gear for at least 3 days and know how to use all that gear correctly. I view electronic maps as an addition source of information but not a total source of information. as. former search and rescue bod I can tell you a very simple thing to assist searches in case you dont return, first tell someone where and when you are going and when you should be back. also if you drive to a trail head put a small square of paper on your dash with a large black arrow pointing in the direction you set off in. that takes out a lot of the guess work in a valley as to which way you went. When I take people out to the mountains one of the things I like to do totally un prepared is say, right I just vanished set up camp , build a shelter get a fire going . and on the way out they have to navigate with no help from me at all . you would be surprised at just how many people get that oh crap look on their face, but it works they learn they take it all in, im all for courses on how to do all this stuff. be safe out there people learn the skills and have the gear.

I used to use Viewranger alongside my map and compass (not literally) until the developer sold the subscribers out, I have never used Outdooractive outdoors. I find the OS app isnt intuitive.

I like CalTopo For trails All trails and my favorite Ramblr

But, people do not take into account that phone batteries go flat, don't work well in the cold and are drained very quickly if people are using a torch. I still take an OS 25,000 map and a compass, but also take a GPS device (not phone) and a torch and spare batteries for that. Round our area just after lockdown, we had at least 20 people stop and ask us "Do you know where we are" (we we're at the side of a road doing remedial work on a lime kiln) as their phone did not have any signal what's so ever and their mapping app (what ever it was) did not work. We also had "Do you know where my car is, I left it on a small road"!!!!! These people will never learn to take the correct equipment what ever it is, as they are so reliant on their phones for everything.