Shinola: Why I Wouldn't Buy Their Watches
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6 жыл бұрынPodcast now live on iTunes: apple.co/2KPBd0B
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In this Video I discuss Shinola Watches and why I personally would not buy one. These are just my own opinions and views on the brand. If you are thinking of buying a Shinola please do your own research and come to a decision yourself. I have included all the references and quotes I used below.
Shinola Video Research Links:
The Real History of America's Most Authentic Fake Brand: bit.ly/3NX0vY9
The Real Story Behind Shinola Detroit: bit.ly/3Nk0FZw
Forbes: The Story Behind 'Built-In Detroit' Shinola Watches: bit.ly/3xcSfwu
Hodinkee: FTC Takes Action Against Shinola: bit.ly/3xqsokP
Federal Trade Commission ruling: bit.ly/3Nk1otF
Shinola Video Quotes Used
“Perhaps most audacious, though, was using Detroit's economic peril as an opportunity to amplify Shinola's message.” - inc.com
“Shinola partnered with Ronda AG, a Swiss maker of watch movements, and Taiwan-based dial manufacturer BAT Ltd. Both foreign companies provided components and trained Shinola's workers.” - inc.com
“People were willing to pay the Detroit-made premium” - inc.com
"Shinola is, and always has been, a job-creation vehicle, and our intention is to create jobs in this city we now call home," Shinola President Jacques Panis - Business Insider
“Kartsotis and the other early members of Shinola had no previous ties to Detroit before starting the company there” - Business Insider
"compared to some of the other products out there, they're definitely charging a premium," Ariel Adams, founder of the blog aBlogtoWatch, - Detroit Free Press.”
“Swiss Made” and “Made in Germany” do not require 100% of the watch to be made in country. “Made in USA” requires every component in the watch, including the movement, to be actually manufactured in the USA. - Hodinkee
“In this case, the Company sources significant inputs to many of its products overseas. For example, 100% of the cost of materials used to make certain watches is attributable to imported materials.” - Federal Trade Commission
"certain materials presented to us during the pendency of our investigation raise concerns that Bedrock may make deceptive U.S.- origin claims in the future. Therefore, we will continue to monitor the Company's advertising closely." - Federal Trade Commission
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@splootan 5 жыл бұрын
Narrow minded people only focusing on the today and now. Well I’m not a big Shinola fan, but like the concept. You say the cost of a Shinola is maybe £100! ? If so they are still only charging £500. Rolex on the other hand charge £5000 and the cost to make these watches.... Case closed.
@TheMadNader 3 жыл бұрын
As this reviewer stated to start the video, if you're into the brand and want to buy a Shinola watch you should not let his opinion sway you, but it is always good to be an informed shopper. I personally appreciate that the watches are assembled by operators in Detroit, and Shinola brought in a team of watchmakers to train the local employees.
@CasualWatchReviews 3 жыл бұрын
May be worth some more research but I heard a rumor they don’t assemble the watches there any more. I have an interview and a few reviews of another detroit watch company called Detroit Mint. Good value watches and assembled by hand in Detroit.
@TheMadNader 2 жыл бұрын
@@CasualWatchReviews Pretty certain Shinola still "assembles" their watches in Detroit. The question arose about the Swiss Ronda movements, and whether something could still be called "made in America" if it had foreign made components. Ultimately the FTC said Shinola must disclose the foreign made parts. Nevertheless, workers in Detroit still do assemble the watches by hand.
@britt5126 Жыл бұрын
I purchased several Shinola's since they're providing jobs for American workers. Most brands are over-priced; think about it.
@timemachineeddie1146 5 жыл бұрын
Great Video. Just wondering if the Shelola r150 automATIC IS THE rONDA R150 THAT CAME OUT A YEAR AGO?
@CasualWatchReviews 5 жыл бұрын
Yes I don't know that any one has fully worked it out but its looks so ugly even on their webite. They could easily used an ETA 2824 at that price point. Although your spoilt for choice at that price range. I mean you could splash out around $600 and get an awesome Hamilton with an upgraded ETA. It looks like they made a movement with 'swiss' and 'other' parts... I dont even know what that is supposed to mean.
@jpdavis6042 6 жыл бұрын
Yes, know some saps who went in their LA store and plopped down $800 bucks. Thought they were cool trendy, lol. It's a $200 boutique watch at best. You mentioned Hamilton Khaki, another great entry level Swiss auto is the Tissot Visodate at under $400. Is the Echo Park/Silverlake store still open?
@CasualWatchReviews 6 жыл бұрын
Yes I totally agree, they are not like cameras where they have a retail but you buy them much cheaper. They actually sell them for those silly prices. I'm not sure about the Echo park store I went in to the one at 'The Grove'. Thanks for watching and commenting!
@dali_hemingway2197 4 жыл бұрын
I just got my Shinola The Runwell 41mm and it's a beautiful thing. I love the feel of it, the look of it, the nice box it came in... I think this dude's full of beans. It is a nice watch, and it's a quality timepiece. Don't pay full price, you can get them on ebay for not a lot of money. It's an American brand, and I like the fact that despite the claims about where and how it was made. it is a nice watch and I'm thoroughly enjoying wearing it. And, I have every watch known to man, from Rolexes to Omegas and Hamiltons and Seikos, and this watch is the only one that puts a smile on my face.
@CasualWatchReviews 4 жыл бұрын
Hey, thanks for commenting. Yep, you did the right thing, these drop like a stone in terms of value on ebay. Also you can pick them up in the bargain cabinets at Nordstrom Rack along side the Michael Kors watches. I think they are worth $150-$250, just not the price they RRP for at their stores and online. Thats why I made this upload, I want people to know they are an absolute rip off at RRP in my view. Plenty of fantastic US brands (that are honest about their origins and where they are made) that I go out of my way to promote, like Vear as one example. You will see Vaer feature in multiple uploads and I recently interviewed them on our Podcast.
@Randomusername404 5 жыл бұрын
I’d like to point out that Shinola movements are actually hand assembled in Detroit. They’re not Ronda Movements. Ronda trained Shinola employees on how to assemble and Shinola imports the components for the movements from Ronda.
@CasualWatchReviews 5 жыл бұрын
Hi Lauryn, I did a bit of investigation and looks like your right. No wonder they change a premium for a movement that can (and should be) mass produced more cost effectively in a Ronda owned factory. The movements are not being improved upon by Shinola in anyway to justify the massive premium they are changing. You have the advantage of it employing people to do the work, that is a bonus for Detroit but duplicating a process seems inefficient and the customers are paying for that inefficiency in the production it would seem. Also at the 50-60% savings you can buy them at in Nordstrom rack they must be over producing.
@jasonclark6194 2 жыл бұрын
Is it safe to say he doesn't know Ronda from shinola? Lol sorry couldn't resist 😅 I just think of the saying I always heard from my grandpa "boy you don't know $h!+ from shinola do you" still makes me laugh.
@drk9148 2 жыл бұрын
I gave away Shinola watch to my little cousin. Shinola seems more suitable for high schoolers to college kids. Spend your money on quality not this Detroit junk! Bands are made in China. What a joke. Watch dials are run down version of Fossil 😂
@davidcrandall4958 Жыл бұрын
LL potato potato,!
@PETERJOHN101 4 жыл бұрын
There is virtually no quartz watch on the market (outside models made with precious metals) that costs more than $50 to make. That is why you can buy a Tissot for $175 and the mftr still makes a decent profit. My rule of thumb is up to $300 for a Swiss quartz, up to $200 for a Japanese quartz, up to $350 or so for a nice Japanese automatic, and Swiss automatics I will only buy on clearance. If you pay more than this for a watch you are paying for brand and image. P.S. Divers are a separate category and command a premium for obvious reasons.
@CasualWatchReviews 4 жыл бұрын
Thats not a bad rule of thumb. I have one really expensive quartz and thats a Breitling B-1. I understand why that is worth what its worth. I would never buy one new however they make that model any more.
@michaelwright1602 5 жыл бұрын
I recently purchased the Shinola Canfield Sport 45mm in Gunmetal with the natural leather strap. I live here in the Detroit area, so there is a bit of "that" going on. And yes, I have read everything that was mentioned here about the Shinola brand, and I have no dispute with the facts. But, Shinola finally got me! An email they sent me that had this particular watch that just caught my eye. Yes, I pulled the trigger and spent $900 for a watch assembled in Detroit of foreign parts. Bottom line, I really really like this watch. And at the end of the day, that is all that matters. Very happy with my new Shinola watch. And yes, I still chuckle over the old saying, sh-t and Shinola, LOL! ;-)
@CasualWatchReviews 5 жыл бұрын
Hi Michael. Yes if your happy to spend the money then there is no argument there. I just don't like Sinola taking advantage of peoples feelings about Detroit. As I mentioned there is an actual Detroit Watch Company that makes high quality mechanical watches and I would argue make a much better talking point than Shinola does.
@michaelwright1602 5 жыл бұрын
@@CasualWatchReviews I agree, I know what they are up to with the assembly of watches here, known it since they began. But, I really like the watch, and do not mind supporting a local company. They are actually spending quite a bit of money in the Detroit area as the city is in a major renovation stage. Really looking good in Detroit, and Shinola has taken an active roll. As far as the Detroit Watch Co, not really my style. A little too much bling for my taste.
@CasualWatchReviews 5 жыл бұрын
I'm glad they are putting money back in to the community but that feels a bit like robbing Peter to pay Paul. I think its just unjustifiable what they charge for the watches new. This is illustrated by the large numbers you can see at any Nordstrom Rack at 60-70% off. Rolex is an actual charitable foundation, Shinola is marketing company that happens to make watches in my opinion. But each to their own. You will see from my channel I don't ever make videos like this, I just felt that strongly that Shinola were exploiting peoples feelings for Detroit and ripping them off that I had to make this one. I appreciate you watching and taking the time to comment.
@thermionic1234567 5 жыл бұрын
Michael Wright Are you actually supporting a local watch company? Do those exorbitant mark-ups go to people in Detroit? Or do they go to investors in other states and countries as well as marketing companies?
@parkwood25311 5 жыл бұрын
@@CasualWatchReviews The thing about the Detroit Watch company as a pure "Detroit" play is they are based in Birmingham. Nice watches but if you are after a piece of Detroit, it's not just a few miles on the map but a HUGE difference in the local culture here. Detroit versus Birmingham is literally the same as two "LA" watch companies, one being based on Rodeo Drive and the other in Compton. I have a Shinola I got as a gift and love it but concede they are way overpriced. But as a piece of Detroit, its got more going for it then the "Detroit" watch company.
@scottparis6355 4 жыл бұрын
Just FYI: "Shinola" is a very old American shoe polish brand, and it's pronounced "shine-ola," despite what the word looks like.
@CasualWatchReviews 4 жыл бұрын
Hey Scott, I have made another video on this brand where I go into the history of the brand a bit more. This is my oldest one on Shinola and for some reason it’s really getting a surge in views this last two weeks?
@SunsetSheen 6 жыл бұрын
It’s hard to believe that people pay $500-1000 for a shitty quartz watch. You could buy a Hamilton, Tissot, or Oris for that same amount and it’s 100x the watch.
@CasualWatchReviews 6 жыл бұрын
I agree, I think Hamilton represents a much better value and they even make quartz if people are so inclined.
@blackclavish 5 жыл бұрын
Tissots are overrated and very ordinary looking.
@rustyshackleford17 5 жыл бұрын
Their target demographic are people who know absolutely nothing about watches but want to spend a pretty penny for one. Anyone who knows anything about watches will generally avoid quartz watches priced in or above Shinola's range. People who know nothing about watches will see a brand that makes good looking watches that "appear" to be quality.
@ianmedium 5 жыл бұрын
What about the same price for an excellent quality quartz over the bog standard machine made mundane mechanical movements in that price range?
@caomhan84 5 жыл бұрын
There's nothing "shitty" about quartz. I agree that they shouldn't be in the $500-$1000 range, but a quartz watch keeps better time than any mechanical watch EVER will. My grandfather was a watch and clock repairman. I have all sorts of watches. I've worn watches that cost thousands and some that are 100 years old. I appreciate mechanical movements and I prefer hand-wound. But day to day? I'd pick a quartz any time.
@opuofbengal5935 6 жыл бұрын
I'm planning to invest in a Seiko 5 for my first serious watch, do you know of any American made watches in the market today?
@CasualWatchReviews 6 жыл бұрын
Hi, there are a few micro-brands that are starting up in the US. I will shortly be doing a review of a Vaer watch that is actually assembles on LA. They currently do a quartz multi purpose watch. Very smart looking . They are very reasonably priced!
@ShaunKVideos 6 жыл бұрын
Opu Ofbengal, here’s a newsflash ... Seiko is not a “serious” watch. Seiko is garbage and a joke. If you want a serious watch for yourself then buy a Hamilton. They have a good starting price point and they’re built with a very high quality.
@Propelled Ай бұрын
Shaun, haven’t seen a GS?
@shipmate3577 6 жыл бұрын
Shinola is extremely overpriced.
@CasualWatchReviews 6 жыл бұрын
I totally agree thats why I was compelled to make this video. Thanks for continuing to watch!
@bigmacdaddy1234 6 жыл бұрын
All watches over a thousand dollars are overpriced.
@bijou989 6 жыл бұрын
&Ö& Paneristi got any proof of that?
@thefrench8847 6 жыл бұрын
*SHITOLA*
@johnadams3107 6 жыл бұрын
RGM,a real american watch company that offers inhouse watches that also employ watchsmiths to offer repair and refurb on automatics.Shinola more of a marketing company that puts together watch parts made overseas,markup in the 500% to 600% range.
@DrStorm-pm6oj 6 жыл бұрын
100% agree with you, Shinola may be a good deal if price not more than 200 USD for their most expensive watch
@CasualWatchReviews 6 жыл бұрын
I couldn't agree more, thanks for commenting and watching!
@kellymoore901 3 жыл бұрын
Very informative. We are wanting to buy our son a watch for his college graduation. I was laser focused on Shinola, until I watched this video. I would love to see a video by you that recommends watches in the $500-1,000 range. Do you have a video that covers this? Thank you!
@phoenix5054 2 жыл бұрын
Apple Watch Series 7 or Samsung Galaxy Watch 4, depending on which phone he uses.
@epicunderstament867 6 жыл бұрын
Hi, would you consider buying a Sternglas Zeitmesser? What are your thoughts about this new micro brand and their watches?
@CasualWatchReviews 6 жыл бұрын
Hi, so this is the first I have heard of the that microbrand thanks for telling me about it. I would say they look like a Nomos watch but obviously on the more affordable side. It would be very interesting to see one up close.
@epicunderstament867 6 жыл бұрын
The Casual Watch Reviewer Here are the details about this watch: Make: Sternglas Zeitmesser Available dial colours: White and black Country of Origin: German Design: Bauhaus design inspired watch Occassion: Dress/Smart Casual - Very versatile! Retail Price - £168.00 / €189 / $235 Movement Type: Battery Powered Quartz / Also available in Automatic Movement Caliber: For the Quartz, Ronda Caliber 714 / For the Automatic: Miyota 8215 Seconds Hands: For Quartz None - I actually like that this watch does not have the seconds hand. I personally perfer it if the watch is quartz, you don't have that annoying ticking visually and audibly. As for the Automatic, it has a seconds hand the smoothly sweep on the dial. Date Display: Yes Case material: Stainless Steel. Case back display: Yes for the Automatic. Case Diameter (mm): 38mm - In my honest opinion, this would be the best size for a man's watch especially for small wrists (I have 6.25 inch wrists) Case Thickness (mm): 8mm - It's great that this watch is really thin, as it would have less "watch bulge" when worn under a shirt cuff, and in winter a sweater/jumper over the shirt cuff sleeve. Case Length Lug to Lug (mm): 46mm Band/Bracelet Width (mm): 20mm - Default Watch Band/Bracelet - Brown calf skin Leather Strap with quick release spring bars Crystal: Sapphire Water Resistance - 50 meters I have already seen the quartz version worn by someone here in London and it looked damn gorgeous! It is a simple, understated, elegant watch. I was thinking of buying a Junghans Max Bill 041/4464.00 and swap out the strap to a brown leather one. But that watch which is also a quartz costs £440 / €497 / $617 and comparing the specs of the Sternglas vs the Junghans Max Bill, you are actually getting a lot of watch for the price. As for the automatic version of Sternglas www.sternglas.de/collections/sternglas-automatik/products/sternglas-automatik-38-mm-braun , comparing it to Nomos or Junghans or Stowa, the Sternglas is still a steal at the asking price of £308 / €349 / $433. The automatic version was recently announced/released in January 2018 is currently on an introductory price of £273 / €309 / $383 and had it’s first run of 500 pieces sold out in a matter of days! Now comparing this to Shinola’s watches.. I would like to think that this Sternglas would a far superior choice over the Shinola in terms of the price and how much you are getting for the price.
@CasualWatchReviews 6 жыл бұрын
Hey, do you know any one linked to the company? maybe a contact?
@epicunderstament867 6 жыл бұрын
Hi, I sent you a private message. Thanks!
@epicunderstament867 6 жыл бұрын
Link to the automatik kzfaq.info/get/bejne/mbaZgq2G2Lq0Y2Q.html
@spg5658 5 жыл бұрын
What's your opinion on Detroit Watch Company? For someone who wants to support USA and Detroit is that a good choice?
@CasualWatchReviews 5 жыл бұрын
Hi, I have never seen one in person but they look cool. They use ETA movements and have a nice vintage styling. They are not actually made in Detroit they are just outside on Birmingham I believe. Looks to be a quality watch, reasonably priced.
@Harvard.Unofficial 5 жыл бұрын
I agree the numbers/what your buying from Shinola are not worth the msrp but I want to tear one down see what is inside test the leather by use, etc.
@CasualWatchReviews 5 жыл бұрын
That would make for a great video actually. Take a Shinola apart and really work out what the parts cost.
@chuckd3468 2 жыл бұрын
I have several Shinola watches. Just ordered a Shinola Bronze monster. I can’t wait! It’s the automatic!.
@CasualWatchReviews 2 жыл бұрын
Hi Chuck, thanks for watching. I would encourage you to look at some other US brands that offer better value than Shinola in my view, Tsao Baltimore, Vaer watches, Detroit Mint, Collins Watches. Also check out the British brand Christopher ward, great value Swiss made watches. All I would say offer substantially better value for money based on all the witches I have reviewed on the channel.
@jhelwig19781 6 жыл бұрын
Great video and agreed.honestky I feel like my Tag Formula 1 quartz is a rip-off for 1k. The clasp is stamped instead of machines...
@CasualWatchReviews 6 жыл бұрын
That is interesting to know, I don’t think I have ever seen a Tag formula one in person. But I do see a quarts tag the same design over and over again in my working life.
@shaojie12 6 жыл бұрын
perhaps you can look at Tag Monaco too
@Reviews4fun1 5 жыл бұрын
I like the Shinola style. Value is usually just subjective. I have Rolex, Shinola, Skagen, Vostoks and they all have their own special place in my heart.
@CasualWatchReviews 5 жыл бұрын
I think your partly right that value is subjective. My point was bot just about Value, is was about the deceptive marketing practices and the exploration of peoples feelings about Detroit. Putting a $30 ronda quarts in a watch and charging $1,500 for it cant represent value for any one surely. Thanks for sharing your opinion and taking the time to watch and comment
@scottparis6355 4 жыл бұрын
Generally agree, but bear in mind that Seiko Nh35 and Miyota 9000 series movements cost about $50 retail, buying one at a time. On that basis it's hard to justify mechanical watches using those movements costing even $500.
@CasualWatchReviews 4 жыл бұрын
I would agree with that, I cover a lot of microbrands on he channel and there are some great value ones using the NH35a. I just made an upload on putting an NH36a into a seiko turtle. Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment!
@richieb74 6 жыл бұрын
i bought a shinola runwell chrono for like $500, and for a sapphire crystal and hand assembled watch i felt that it was an ok deal, overpriced but i like it and i feel like it will last and be durable. if you think about it any luxury watch is over priced its just about what you like and whats acceptable to you.
@CasualWatchReviews 6 жыл бұрын
Hi Richie, so you managed to get your Runwell at a significant discount from list then. I guess if you bought it new and the store you purchased it from wouldn't be in the business of loosing money on it, then I guess that goes towards my argument on the cost of parts. Your right though, if you like it then it doesn't matter what any one thinks, including me. I focused this review on the company as well, I think people need to know the background before purchasing. There is a company out of LA that assembles very simple and nicely designed quartz watches for a fraction of what Shinola charge. They also use sapphire crystal, hand assembled (by two really cool guys, not a conglomerate ran from Texas) and are very good build quality. No chronograph yet but I'm sure its a matter of time www.vaerwatches.com Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment.
@richieb74 6 жыл бұрын
The Casual Watch Reviewer I agree if I had paid full price I wouldn’t be as happy with it. I bought straight from shinola It’s still a nice quality strap all stainless construction with a screw down crown. It has the things I look for in a watch. I don’t understand how if tag and tissot does the same exact thing why does shinola get all the hate.
@CasualWatchReviews 6 жыл бұрын
Wow so even Shinola them self sold you a watch that was a 3rd of the price they retail them for? I think I covered all the reasons Shinola gets 'hate' in the upload, like the deceptive marketing practices and the praying on peoples affection for Detroit whilst making a product so expensive most people in Detroit couldn't justify paying for. Also using movements you would find in watches considerably cheaper. Your buying the name from a fashion brand not a watch from a company passionate about horology. I'm guessing your new to watch collecting, so I would ask on a watch forum... 'opinions on 'Tag' and see what responses you get. And tissot watches are a very reasonably priced and a quality watch. Part of the fun of watch collecting for me is the history of a brand and I think these fashion brands like Shinola, Armani, Michael kors and so on are over priced and distorting what people think is a quality watch. You bought a 'brand' not a watch with any thought or horological significance to it. Because if you just liked the way it looked you could have saved yourself $400 and bought a timex weekender. I feel like this conversation could be a video in itself, let me know if you fancy doing a collaboration on it over skype or something?
@richieb74 6 жыл бұрын
The Casual Watch Reviewer I’m not really defending them. It’s not my first watch and I work for a company that has shinola as a sponsor so I got a partners program discount. It retailed for $750 and I got it for $500. And I do agree that it’s shitty that you can take the watch apart and it says China all over it. But I also don’t agree that this is comparable to a timex weekender. I feel like this is my everyday watch that I don’t care if it gets scratched or worn at all and it great for that. My best watch in my collection is a victorinox airboss Mach 6 with an ETA 7753 movement. I hope that’s not considered a designer watch I wouldn’t say shinola is a designer brand either. Those watches are of horrible quality and don’t have any of the same features that even shinola has
@richieb74 6 жыл бұрын
The Casual Watch Reviewer I mean sure that sounds cool I’m not an expert or anything
@kellymoore901 3 жыл бұрын
Actually, what watches would you recommend in the $500-$1,500 range?
@CasualWatchReviews 3 жыл бұрын
Hey Kelly, I would avoid shinola like I mentioned in this video. The $500-$1,500 is a really good range, the majority of the watches I review on the channel are in that range. It depends on his style honestly and if he would like a Quartz watch (battery powered) or a mechanical watch. Mechanical watches are more synonymous with being long term gifts but they take more servicing over the years than a quartz... but they are cool! You honestly can't go wrong with brands like Longines, hamilton, Rado in that range. If you want to go a little more then Tudor and Breitling are great. Tudor watches are actually a good investment for the future if you liked that idea. The brand is owned by Rolex so you get that quality for a third of the price, expect to pay 3-4K. One thing I would highly recommend, see of there are microbrands or watch brands that have a history in the place you live. There are microbrands all over the US; Vaer in LA, Lorier in New York, Tsao in Baltimore to name a few. That may mean a lot more to your son, have a watch based where you live. Micro brands offer unique design and you can talk to the owners. A great allround microbrand that I really love (based in the UK) is Christopher Ward, they just released a new sealander range, the quality vs cost is exceptional. I just interviewed the CEO on the channel Mike France , check my feed its one of the last 3.
@CasualWatchReviews 3 жыл бұрын
Also please feel free to join the Casual Watch Talk Facebook group if you would like more advice from different collectors
@MrPleers 6 жыл бұрын
If you like that converted pocketwatch design, take a look at the Tissot Heritage 1936 or the Oris Big Crown 1917 . (These are actually re-issui of their classic models from that time. )
@CasualWatchReviews 6 жыл бұрын
Hi, I'm not a massive fan of the design personally but this is great information for people that are. The Urban Gentry channel just did a very in depth review on the Oris, an impressive looking watch. Thanks for commenting and watching.
@real_fjcalabrese 2 жыл бұрын
Shinola is a marketing/lifestyle brand. The problem is they, in my eyes, they are horrendously overpriced.
@CasualWatchReviews 2 жыл бұрын
Couldn’t agree more!
@opuofbengal5935 6 жыл бұрын
Great information! I was intrigued by this company as a Detroit resident, but after reading and watching a few opinions by actual watch enthusiasts this company does seem to be blatantly cashing in on people's sympathy towards Detroit. Leaves a bitter taste in my mouth quite honestly.
@CasualWatchReviews 6 жыл бұрын
Hi, yes it left a bitter taste on my mouth that is why I felt the need to do a video on it. So far this is the only really negative video I have done on a watch brand. Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment.
@salembeeman370 3 жыл бұрын
Came here after hearing your podcast. Well you sound the same in both mediums. I totally agree with you. As a new watch collector I really need to be careful and buy for value (or get divorced!)
@CasualWatchReviews 3 жыл бұрын
Hey Fred, welcome to the channel!
@remb9614 3 жыл бұрын
There are people out there that would just rather have quartz. Those people that want a more premium watch are looking at brands like shinola.
@CasualWatchReviews 3 жыл бұрын
I have a few quartz now in the collection. One is a breitling, the others are a ‘detroit mint’ watch and a citizen. You could get a preowned breitling quartz for not much more than a shinola at full price and be getting a significantly better watch. Hamilton make good quartz watches and Zodiac to name but a few. All considerably better value for money in my opinion than shinola.
@remb9614 3 жыл бұрын
The Casual Watch Reviewer I think you are right. It seems like the non-watch people just think price equates to value and these brands are duping these people into spending their money on junk
@krzysztofhadala9126 5 жыл бұрын
Very valuable opinion. Thank you. I like Shinola’ a retro design very much. But with a movement made in China 🇨🇳 they won’t live very long. Few years ago l bought Swatch Rebel. It died after 2 years. Problems with plastic strap then a second hand unglued blocking other two hands. But my Mum has Swatch for 25 years. Anyway, l decided to subscribe your channel👍.
@carlphil450 2 жыл бұрын
Own a blackened Runwell chrono sport for the last three years, great watch, look fantastic, well balanced on the wrist, prefer to wear with nato band. Owned many brands, Shinola is very good so far and better than bigger brands name. Of course I would like to own an automatic Panerai but it’s not in my price range. Shinola is now making automatic watch by the way.
@CasualWatchReviews 2 жыл бұрын
Hi Carl, glad you like it. I still have not changed my opinion from making this one, maybe I should do an update!
@jmhallett1045 4 жыл бұрын
I love my Shinola Rambler chrono, puts a smile on my face every time I wear it, the quality seems fine to me (I have 50 other watches including a Tag quartz for comparison), really legible, great lume, just don't pay full price - why would you? Any review of watches focusing on price or value is meaningless to a watch lover. If you want it, you want it. Only ever bought one watch because it was Value For Money (Citizen eco-drive field watch) - gave it away. Leonardo Da Vinci painted the Mona Lisa with $3 worth of paint and $1.75 of canvas, even the frame cost $10.00.
@CasualWatchReviews 4 жыл бұрын
Hi JM, thanks for watching. I would say I’m also a watch lover and I still think Shinola is a total rip off for what they are. I love watches that much I dedicate a large portion of my time to making content for this channel. A lot of people do pay full price for Shinola through their stores, this was as much a public service announcement to those people who don’t know what represents value in the watch world. Da Vinci May have painted the Mona Lisa for $3 or whatever but it’s perceived value and it being a ‘limited edition’ to use a watch world term plays a part 😂. The perceived value of Shinola by the second hand market is... they are not worth anywhere near there money, just look on eBay for listing after listing.
@jmhallett1045 4 жыл бұрын
@@CasualWatchReviews good points, but re-sale value is a tricky one - on that basis, Rolex watches are the best VFM ever, but, erm, what if you are buying a watch because you want a nice watch, rather than to sell it? There are some Oris divers I like very much, more attractive and certainly better 'value' than a Sub, but unlikely to appreciate. So 'value' is complex, but I DO appreciate the service you are providing for the occasional buyer, and keep up the good work. :)
@gregwalker4236 5 жыл бұрын
as a child of world war 2 and the son of a ww2 army air corps pilot who spared me not his salty language, i have to laugh a little at at the choice of "shinola" for branding. this, i believe, a term for shoe polish back then... and when you strongly disagreed with someone you said "you don't know the difference between shit and shinola!"
@CasualWatchReviews 5 жыл бұрын
Hi Greg, your right about the shoe polish, they bought the rights to the name and thats what they built the business on. Its ironic that that term was used to describe the show polish... not much has changed with watches!
@johnadams3107 6 жыл бұрын
No,Thank You sam,keep up the great reviews.I like how you stay as unbiased as possible,but state the facts in a unique and intelligent measured delivery.a substantial channel with super content and its obvious you love you doing it,thanks again. Cheers John
@CasualWatchReviews 6 жыл бұрын
Thanks again John, much appreciated. I try as be an unbiased as I can be. I know if I own the watch its usually because I really like them so that harder to be objective but I’m trying to work on that. Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment.
@juliovalenzuela4216 5 жыл бұрын
Couldn’t agree with you more on every point. Currently own a runwell that was a gift from my wife. Only reason I’ve kept it is the sentimental value. It is a very nice watch but not an abysmal value. Should I want another some time in the future I will buy it a Nordstrom Rack for at least 60% of the cost at the Shinola store.
@CasualWatchReviews 5 жыл бұрын
Hi Julio, thats nice that you got one as a gift and the sentimental value outweighs the actual value. I keep taking pictures in Nordstrum rack for maybe a follow up video to this. Shinola right next to Michael Kors at 60% off
@booshkindoggin 2 жыл бұрын
But note Shinola's lifetime warranty plus it's easy to self-replace battery with simple flat head screwdriver and sleeve of 5 batteries from amazon for $5.49.
@CasualWatchReviews 2 жыл бұрын
That goes for any Quartz watch in terms of batteries. Im not aware of the warranty but if it is a life time warranty imagine its because it costs less than $20 to replace the entire movement in most of their quartz watches.
@spankyharland9845 10 ай бұрын
you can put together a quartz watch for less then 10 dollars if you know where to buy the parts- put the shinola name on it and add 990 dollars to it and make some fabulous money !
@markwolfson9811 3 жыл бұрын
What about Grand Seiko, 2300.00 U.S. for their quartz watches. And Adrian of Bark and Jack bought one, a d sold it. So Shinola for 1499.00 has a Sellita, not bad.
@CasualWatchReviews 3 жыл бұрын
Hey Mark. Adrian sold that watch because he didn’t warm to the design. Even he said the 9f quartz in the seiko was the most advanced quartz movement ever made and he is 100% right in that. Shinola use a $25 quartz movement in their $800 watches I would say thats the difference. Christopher ward make some of the best value watches available. They just made a compressor watch where the case is the first super compressor case to be made in 50 years, they spent years designing it. The case is made by one of the beat case manufacturers in the world who makes cases for many of the big brands. That watch on bracelets is $1,145.00 and uses a sellita. So yep that shinola, a watch they designed with zero thought for $1,499 is bad in my view.
@oldiesfreek 6 жыл бұрын
Very frank review! Subscribed! :)
@CasualWatchReviews 6 жыл бұрын
Thanks Peter, welcome to the channel!
@jimg518 Жыл бұрын
You are so right. They are way overpriced. I’m a watch collector too, and I tried to tell my in-laws about this brand and I could tell they didn’t believe me. I was born and raised just south of Detroit and lived there 55 years. And I don’t back this brand at all. I would prefer American made products like anyone else, but they have to be a fair value to the consumer, and these clearly are not.
@CasualWatchReviews Жыл бұрын
Hey Jim, I need to update this video, been a while. Totally agree with you of course. I have been reviewing Dave over at Detroit Mints watches on the channel. Affordable and assembled by him in Detroit.
@jimg518 Жыл бұрын
@@CasualWatchReviews ok, look forward to it.
@paulbrady8107 6 жыл бұрын
Spot on my friend the whole set up is misleading to say the least it's way past being economic with the truth $1500 for a quartz fashion watch I'd sooner use a sundial.i have an omega seamaster 300 quartz I love and like you said fit and finish as near perfect as you would expect from omega.
@CasualWatchReviews 6 жыл бұрын
Yes exactly, quartz movements definitely suite most watch wearers. But the prices shinola charge are confusing the market. Making people think they are getting a luxury swiss watch. Thanks for continuing to watch and comment Paul!
@paulbrady8107 6 жыл бұрын
B J B I have nothing against quartz movement's but the makers must be honest.To say made in any country then I believe it should be 100% made in that country,made in China or made in USA WHICH WOULD YOU CHOOSE ?99.99% would choose the USA. But then the Swiss are doing some naughty things re the made in Switzerland on the dial adds a few zeros to the price. Good luck.👍
@johnadams3107 6 жыл бұрын
I believe sam of the casual watch review channel is one of the best watch reviewers out there.a perfect gentleman who is genuine in his opinions and respects others.obviously a caring individual and all around good guy.keep it up and love your content. Cheers John adams
@CasualWatchReviews 6 жыл бұрын
Wow thanks John! I'm glad you enjoy my content, thats what its all about.
@rockymtnstyle Жыл бұрын
All watches are over-priced for their function. We all have phones/computers to tell the time. Watches transcend function, though. They are jewelry and status symbols. A Shinola is worth what someone wants to pay for it, just like any other watch. If your goal is to tell time even a $40 Timex is a waste since you have a smartphone in your pocket. It's about status and how it makes you feel. There is no utility in a watch. Everyone needs to stop acting like there is... and this coming from a guy who owns many overpriced watches because they make me happy! ;) Fun to find old videos and a vibrant comment section. Hope all is well in your world, Casual Watch Reviews!
@CasualWatchReviews Жыл бұрын
Yep all well here! Yep this one still gets a ton of views! My video, scripting and vocals have got a lot better since then… but my stance on Shinola never changed!
@ThePigboy23 3 жыл бұрын
I own two shinola watches and to be honest I'm very satisfied. Most of the grief is that they're too pricey. Well, if you ain't paying for it then don't tell me how to spend my money.
@CasualWatchReviews 3 жыл бұрын
I’m glad your happy. Honestly I made this for people that are uneducated about he brand. A lot of people go on youtube to do research so my upload is just one data point for them. They dont represent value for money at their RRP, I have reviewed hundreds of watches on my channel and none represent such poor value for money than shinola in my experience. Like you say if you clearly went into it knowing that and your happy, thats all that matters. Spend your money how you like.
@dezbriel9981 4 жыл бұрын
Not all Ronda movements are made in Asia. Ronda also manufactures their movements in Switzerland. A Swiss made Ronda will be labeled as Swiss made/movement. A Ronda movement made in Asia will be labeled with a different brand and marked as Swiss parts not swiss movement.
@joeh2679 2 жыл бұрын
I own a Filson/Shinola Smokey the bear limited edition watch that I am absolutely in Love with. This watch sold for $1000 and they only made 1000 of them and I can definitely see the quality in the watch itself, but my particular watch is special because it was worn in 2 seasons of a television show and it just brings a smile to my face every time I look at it. I definitely say Shinola makes a great watch and I would definitely buy one from them directly. I think all watches are overpriced. It’s just everyone likes what they like.
@CasualWatchReviews 2 жыл бұрын
Thats great that you love yours Joe, that is all that matters!
@chrisnorcross3322 2 жыл бұрын
I purchased to shine all the watches and absolutely love them.
@drain_001 2 жыл бұрын
I agree the price is too high for what these watches are, but I'm about to get one for "free" with credit card points. Thanks for the honest video.
@dude28405 4 жыл бұрын
I agree I looked at them and I thought they were way too expensive for what you get I seen one of their automatic for 1000 I thought the same thing not worth what you get for your money
@CasualWatchReviews 4 жыл бұрын
Hey Peter, my views on this company have still not changed. They could be a great American watch brand if they were prices correctly. But it sounds like they are reducing the staff in Detroit.
@brandoneggleston1698 6 жыл бұрын
What about Citizen Eco Drive?
@CasualWatchReviews 6 жыл бұрын
Brandon Eggleston yes your right, the hybrid movement. I didn’t specifically mention it because I was doing a more general video. But Citizen are another great brand that even there most sophisticated watches or professional diver ranger are cheaper and better value than Shinola
@WildmanWoodie 4 жыл бұрын
A Seiko Tuna is a $900 quartz watch and is far better than a $1000-$1500 Shinola quartz watch. There's no comparison at all. Shinola is a shoddy product.
@CasualWatchReviews 4 жыл бұрын
Hey Vinnie, thanks for commenting. I have the very same opinion of shinola!
@MrDanbeer 6 жыл бұрын
Well done video thank you
@CasualWatchReviews 6 жыл бұрын
Thank you and thank you for watching and taking the time to comment.
@catsandrubber Жыл бұрын
Hi. Looks like I was kind of mislead with the marketing. Good few years ago I was thinking of getting another watch and had this company in mind and thought it was a more home grown watch company. Trying to bring back a trade to Detroit. Good video cheers, I take it they are still kind of the same company still?
@CasualWatchReviews Жыл бұрын
I maybe should do a follow up video to this one. My understanding is they moved more of the watch making overseas. I may actually do a part two.
@catsandrubber Жыл бұрын
@@CasualWatchReviews that’s a shame. I thought/hoped they might try to go down the really made in America route and us it as marketing but it seems it’s easier and more profitable just to use that label and fool people.
@kaimac 4 жыл бұрын
some people care more about style than value, hard to find a better looking watch for the price
@CasualWatchReviews 4 жыл бұрын
Appreciate you watching, think we will agree to disagree on that then.
@kaimac 4 жыл бұрын
@@CasualWatchReviews maybe not your taste, but their aesthetic is extremely refined
@CasualWatchReviews 4 жыл бұрын
Kaimac95 its an aesthetic thats not an original design. If you like the look the timex weekender is a very similar look, same quartz movement for around $55 USD.
@kaimac 4 жыл бұрын
@@CasualWatchReviews it's not about who did it first, it's about who did it best. the runwell is like an elevated weekender, people with a strong fashion sense will pay 10x more for something if it looks even 1.5x better than the cheaper alternative
@CasualWatchReviews 4 жыл бұрын
Kaimac95 yes that is certainly how Shinola get away with price gouging on a simple quartz watch.
@redefv 5 жыл бұрын
Is your accent Detroit?
@CasualWatchReviews 5 жыл бұрын
I'm not sure if this is an actual question but I will have a go at answering it. Yes both myself and the founders of shinola (its current fashion brand not the shoe polish people) are not from Detroit. If you genuinely can't tell a British accent from a US one then maybe watch a film based in Detroit like RoboCop or listen to some Eminem who is from Detroit.
@ghotstruck7154 6 жыл бұрын
I agree with the quartz movement being overpriced. Definitely would purchase if I can find one for a good price. However, the semantics of "made in USA" doesn't bother me. If they employ US citizens to manufacture the watch... I believe a purchase supports those individuals. Althought some may be more pure in their intent... I still applaud and endorse the effort.
@CasualWatchReviews 6 жыл бұрын
Hi yes, so they are assembled in the US and any jobs they create are worth great. But their whole marketing spiel about made in Detroit when in fact the company is operated out of Texas is a bit disingenuous. And 'Made in USA' does have a definition and thats what they got done for by the FTC.
@ghotstruck7154 6 жыл бұрын
The Casual Watch Reviewer I was always under the impression that they are a leather goods company. They seem to step into other worlds with great designs. The watch world is a rather low regulated space... hence true proven brands are so expensive. There are known American brands who bring in leather from elsewhere, tan it somewhere else and people just love supporting them. Shinola hires Americans (Detroiters) for those roles which is the heart of their business so they can be valuable across all their endeavors. It makes business sense to me. A quartz watch movement is rather cheap and probably isn't worth the hired skill for one endeavor.
@CasualWatchReviews 6 жыл бұрын
I agree that providing jobs is a good thing, no question there. They started with watches and later got in to bikes and leather goods. The guy who set them up used to work for fossil, so just copied their business model. I would argue that Fossil is considerably better value than Shinola. regardless of where the jobs are I think they could improve their image by charging a fair price for their watches and being transparent about how they are made. For example Kia employ thousands of people in Atlanta but they don't market themselves as 'Atlanta made' or Made in the USA to pull on people's heart strings. Because the majority of parts are imported not 'Made in USA' like Shinola say from Swiss and Chinese parts. Also those great US brands that died because of the quartz crisis should be resurrected and value put back in to American watch making like with Weiss in LA.
@miporsche 5 жыл бұрын
Counter argument: At least Shinola has an American vibe and are assembled in Detroit. Timex, a formerly American brand, is fully foreign. Their Chinese movements are installed where? Hamilton, with its American heritage that it uses to full advantage in marketing, is now completely non-American (or should I say, un-American). Ball, of American railroad fame, was American but is now Swiss. Bulova became a Japanese company, as did Pulsar. Walthum used to be American but is now Swiss. Elgin? Whatever. I give Shinola credit for their American assembly line. They're probably paying inflated union wages on top of that. They have to market themselves somehow. Shinola might as well say they're American. It's better than the bragging about the American war effort from the fans of that Swiss watchmaker, Hamilton.
@CasualWatchReviews 5 жыл бұрын
Hi, thanks for taking the time to comment. Yes your right that Shinola are assembled in the US, but so are a lot of much better watches. Like the actual Detroit Watch company. My argument here is their outrageous pricing and the fact that they are using Detroit to pull at the heart strings of the US public. They could make reasonably priced watches like fossil for example and I wouldn't have as much an issue with them. Timex still design their watches in the US. Shinola make a $150 watch and sell it for $1,500. A lot of companies use Union workers and they are in a highly competitive markets like trucking for example.
@miporsche 5 жыл бұрын
Good points. I agree Shinola are over priced. For that reason alone, I won't buy one either. Just for my information, what other better watches are also assembled in the U.S.? I'd be interested in buying an American-assembled watch, if it's a good value.
@CasualWatchReviews 5 жыл бұрын
check these guys out detroitwatchco.com and dufranewatches.com
@CasualWatchReviews 5 жыл бұрын
I reviewed these guys on the channel, assembled in LA www.vaerwatches.com/
@CobraKaiNoMercy 5 жыл бұрын
What happened to the American watch trade as a whole was sad to say the least, however one could argue their failure to overcome and adapt was their own fault. Heres my counter argument to your counter argument 😉. Shinola watches are by any measure horribly overpriced, I believe you inasmuch mentioned this, Hamilton watches, Pulsar, and any watch you mentioned are regarded by watch enthusiasts as being very well made and a great value. Hamilton for example has an excellent line of automatic watches for reasonable prices, Shinola has some select models of automatic watches that will make crap your pants when you see how much they are charging for it. I'd sooner buy a watch that one can perceive betrayed its American origins but is a great value over a watch that abuses its American origin to sell a watch that isn't worth it. My 2 cents 👀
@blurayauthority 3 жыл бұрын
It’s not that difficult. If you think these watches are overpriced - don’t buy them. If you like them and will wear them, then it’s money well spent.
@CasualWatchReviews 3 жыл бұрын
Yep I think thats the point I was trying to make, its not really money well spent. Not at all really. These are a rip off unfortunately in my view. Much better watches, even other detroit watch brands.
@wooddawg4868 5 жыл бұрын
Buying a Shinola is like tossing money in a river. They are good reliable watches but not at their price point.
@CasualWatchReviews 5 жыл бұрын
Hi Frank, yes I agree actually. Thanks for commenting and Watching,
@zaxsp1118 4 жыл бұрын
I think the price is challenging on this watch for sure. However this is the long battle between american made and china or japan. You could get yourself a nice acura for less then a nice Cadillac. It really comes down to wages the employees earn. I did just acquire a shinola today for $200 usd preowned and feel comfortable with that price. Looking at this watch on my wrist I'd feel pretty sad bad I paid $600.
@CasualWatchReviews 4 жыл бұрын
Hey Zack, yep good point. The watches are only assembled in the US, not made. The parts are not made in the US, the movement are Swiss for example, sapphire is likely from Hong Kong as they are the biggest producers. With the exception of the leather bands that can be made in the US. Your eventually paying a massive premium for watch to be assembled by a US worker. Not investing in an industry building watches from scratch, or recreating an industry here in the US where a watch could be us made, not that would be a great legacy. I assembled a lego train at Christmas in my home in California. I don’t class it as US made or would expect to then sell it assembled on eBay for a premium because I made it in the us. I think $200 you spent is about what they are worth so you did get a good deal there Zack! Appreciate you watching!
@zaxsp1118 4 жыл бұрын
@@CasualWatchReviews Oh for sure. If I misspoke I apologize I fully understand the difference of a inhouse movement and a out sourced movement. Having over 97 watches in my collection and restoring them by hand. It's just the same I dont consider a watch I've fully restored to be made by myself haha. So for another car comparison. One of my cars is a jeep "made in usa" all the mopar parts are from canada. So it's another gray area of made vs assembled in x country.
@CasualWatchReviews 4 жыл бұрын
Oh thats cool, do you have a brand that you enjoy restoring! I know the seiko restorers are inundated!
@zaxsp1118 4 жыл бұрын
@@CasualWatchReviews I've done a hand full of older seiko automatics and they are rewarding. Movado are fantastic to restore as well. You can pick up quartz movado for really cheap and they shine up fantastically. Right now I'm working on a seiko kenetic, and a bulova accutron 14k solid gold. Have you tried a hand at restoring at all? Be it movements or even just buffing up the case and band?
@CasualWatchReviews 4 жыл бұрын
not massivly, we modified a seiko turtle but mostly that was done by Kris who I run the podcast with, I changed the dial and hands on an invicta and thats about it.I do have an old douglas watch i may try and take apart and put back togteher again.
@jamesbarros950 4 жыл бұрын
Thank you. I am interested in a Shinola. I like their look and I like the American/Swiss crossover. I started trying to look them up and after finding a number of people complaining about them up one side and down another, everyone complained about them being neither American nor Swiss, but no one actually talked about the watch at all. I swear at the price point I thought they were mechanical. I've got a timex weekender, and it's an absolutely great quartz watch at a $25 pricepoint. I'm getting ready to get into mechanical watches and I would have been... "incredibly upset" had I ended up buying one of these.
@CasualWatchReviews 4 жыл бұрын
Hey James, welcome to the channel. Yes shinola are not good value for money at all in my opinion. If you want a great mechanical you can't go wrong with something like Hamilton Khaki or even Oreint watches are great value for money. If you like the idea of it being assembled in the US there are lots of US microbrands like Vaer here in SoCal. If you need any suggestions drop me an email.
@jamesbarros950 4 жыл бұрын
@@CasualWatchReviews Nice I'll checkout Vaer, as I like supporting LA adjacent brands. I'm currently on a bit of a budget, and was considering a vostok precision as my first vintage watch. Thoughts or suggestions on these old Russian-ish deals?
@CasualWatchReviews 4 жыл бұрын
Vostok make a good watch, usually collectors get them because they are quirky. I wouldn’t personally relight on one as my only watch. Honestly if your on a budget I would get an Invicta prodiver. I don’t often recommend Invicta but the pro diver can be had for $80 and represents a great value for money as a mechanical
@JohnDoe-xu2vx 3 жыл бұрын
I have to send my Shinola to factory to have the battery replaced....doesnt even last two years. Other thing is all their watch bands are short in length so me being a big guy they barely fit. It is interesting how all the watch companies are copying Shinola style.
@tuber6382 Жыл бұрын
You like mechanical watches the same way I like candles... Argh the throwback to the old days before electricity was discovered. back then when the earth was flat.... brings me back for sure.
@CasualWatchReviews Жыл бұрын
I feel like that was an attempt at a joke?
@NashCreekIndustries 8 ай бұрын
I don’t know why so many people pronounce the name of this company with a short “i” sound. It’s “SHINE-ola.”
@CasualWatchReviews 8 ай бұрын
Maybe it would be better if it was hyphenated like your example, then there would be no confusion.
@NashCreekIndustries 7 ай бұрын
@@CasualWatchReviews - I don't run the brand. Just sharing info ;)
@GKram13 2 жыл бұрын
Buy to support American workers. It costs more because Americans build them. American labor is always at a premium. People like to say buy American until they see the price tag
@CasualWatchReviews 2 жыл бұрын
A lot to choose from for US assembled watches honestly. Vaer is a prime example. Watches assembled in the US and priced very reasonably, unlike the utter rip off these watches are Shinola sell.
@CasualWatchReviews 2 жыл бұрын
Also check out Detroit Mint watches is you want a unique watch and supporting someone who lives in Detroit unlike the owners of Shinola
@shaojie12 6 жыл бұрын
it takes some guts to point out the value of these brands, good job!
@CasualWatchReviews 6 жыл бұрын
I don’t normally do videos like this but felt compelled, these fashion brands are dominating the market at the cost of true watch making. One of my favorite brands Fortis went in to bankruptcy this month. Value needs to be put back in to what watch making is. These watches have there place but the cost is making people think they are of the same quality or better than proper watch brands with a long history that are going to fade away.
@shaojie12 6 жыл бұрын
yeah i agree, Fortis' situation is a shame too. while i believe that there will still be pockets of people who prefer fashion watches (quartz or mechanical), i hope that your video educates those who want to be serious watch collectors to look closely at the value they are purchasing for that piece. i hope that more watch related KZfaqrs like yourself can engage and educate the viewers constructively on those worthy brands, their history, technologies and the intrinsic values they have brought to the horology world.
@yobbos1 6 жыл бұрын
I wonder if there is going to be a "smartwatch crisis" a la "quartz crisis" at some point.
@shaojie12 6 жыл бұрын
hm that is a good question but i doubt it will be easy to answer. worldwide sales of mechanical watches have just rebounded but i don't see strong factors supporting the revival of the industry yet. i certainly hope that the introductions of the new movements (e.g. Zenith Defy Lab) can help usher the industry into greater heights (& interest from new watch hobbyists) as the costs of such engines get lowered.
@CasualWatchReviews 6 жыл бұрын
Yea I agree with that. I see Tag are trying their hand at smartwatches so they are covering all the bases. It would be interesting to see how many smartwatches they sell vs the new Autavia. That would be a good gauge of the market maybe.
@navajasrs2402 3 жыл бұрын
For a mislabeled $50 watch at Costco for a 40m Brakeman on a fantastic green leather strap, I'm happy with my Shinola. I'm not paying anywhere near four figures for a quartz watch unless it says Grand Seiko on its face.
@CasualWatchReviews 3 жыл бұрын
Wow sounds like your one one of the few people not to get ripped off by Shinola. Like I said in the upload this would be a good watch for the $150-$200 price range. I have a breitling B1 I paid over for figures for but yep the grand seiko 9F would be another. Not a Shinola with a $25 ronda inside
@navajasrs2402 3 жыл бұрын
@@CasualWatchReviews Yeah, $50 for that strap was good deal in my eyes. Came with a free quartz watch.
@psiturbo 9 ай бұрын
good video! ty
@barreltech8949 6 жыл бұрын
I guess you guys would rather have Shinola use Miyota automatic movements instead....
@CasualWatchReviews 6 жыл бұрын
At the prices they charge an ETA could easily go in there. The Seagull Hand Wind Mechanical movement would be great in their chronographs and be in keeping with the vintage theme they are desperately trying to achieve. A Miyota would be a step up from what they are using, good suggestion.
@pacovl46 6 жыл бұрын
That’s the reason I’m not buying a Kobold watch. I love the way the Kobold Langley looks, but, BUT!!! almost 2200 dollars for a Quartz watch is just unbelievably overpriced, no matter where they are made!
@CasualWatchReviews 6 жыл бұрын
Yes I totally agree, some of the best advances in quartz were made by Seiko, Citizen and Casio like the Kenetic, Atomic, eco drive and so on. Not brands like these charging a fortune. Also those Kobold watches have a very similar look to watches from decent brands. I saw one and immediately thought 'Glycine Airman'
@yobbos1 6 жыл бұрын
Agree 100% I will never buy one retail full price.
@CasualWatchReviews 6 жыл бұрын
Thanks for commenting, Yep if the chronograph ones were in the $200-$300 region then maybe. I could have filled the whole video with just quotes!
@mmal253625 6 жыл бұрын
I bought my Shinola Runwell at their outlet store for $220. I love it. I have had many compliments. They have nice Horween Leather bands and great NATO bands as well as a sapphire crystal. For the $200-$300 range, i think a great buy.
@CasualWatchReviews 6 жыл бұрын
Thanks for commenting and giving your perspective.
@jd-py5nm 6 жыл бұрын
i have seen them priced reasonably at nordstroms rack
@zachhanson6575 5 жыл бұрын
Orient bambino is a better watch far more cheap than these overpriced quartz watches.
@CasualWatchReviews 5 жыл бұрын
Yes I think the Bambino is a great pick over the Shinola. If people take the time they can find a very well made watch significantly better and cheaper than Shinola.
@abhishekgoyal4590 4 жыл бұрын
Shinola is a good brand in future can challenge citizen seiko too, coz they soon will manufacture all quartz automatic movement themselves, big plus Its watch i have with me is running for 6 years straight ... Runwell automatic you should look on to
@CasualWatchReviews 4 жыл бұрын
My opinion on this is there is absolutely no chance they will rival Citizen and Seiko. Both of those companies offer value across price ranges. Shinola gouge there customers. Both seiko and citizen grow year on year, Shinola is actually decreasing its workforce
@abhishekgoyal4590 4 жыл бұрын
@@CasualWatchReviews the same said when i phone came,no matter they cannot rival ubiquitous nokia... You will see next ten years us has its own locally manufacturer brand of watch and luxury goods..
@CasualWatchReviews 4 жыл бұрын
I can name at least 20 other US brands in my opinion that are doing a significantly better job than Shinola, two in Detroit. They wont be around in 10 years. The difference is that Apple created something new, that had not been seen before. Shinola used a common design of a trench watch, put a $30 quartz movement inside, then charged $800 for it. Apple didn't take an existing nokia design, put their name on it, make no improvements or advances inside then charge $800 for it. Shinola wont be around in 10 years. MVMT watches started up and sold for millions more than Shinolas market value in 3 years and there watches were awful. There are countless watches in that price range that offer excellent value for money, any Hamilton watch is better value than anything Shinola has ever produced in my view. Hamilton (although now owned by swatch) has a significant american history, swatch saved them. That history was not in making shoe polish it was in American watch making. I regularly interact with US watch brands that are run by passionate watch companies, Shinola is run by a venture capitalist firm in Texas. The money doesn't even stay in Detroit. Look up companies like: Detroit Mint, the Detroit Watch Company, Vaer Watches, Collins Watches, Tsao Baltimore if you want an excellent value, American assembled Watch. These are companies run by passionate watch fans not a money hungry venture capitalist firm pumping out $150 watches and selling them for $800, or if your lucky selling them in TK Max and Nordstrum rack for pennies on the dollar. I'm glad you like yours and this is only my opinion, but two things can be true... You love yours and they are also a total rip off.
@abhishekgoyal4590 4 жыл бұрын
@@CasualWatchReviews any 100% made in usa with automatic? Shinola sapphire crystal,finish case,steel quality don't think you have put these in your mind ? But please tell me affordable watches under 200 all made in usa.. Invicta i know in jomashop will cost me 45 max.. Authetic american brand i want man
@CasualWatchReviews 4 жыл бұрын
Yep absolutely, check out Vaer. Two guys in LA assembling some incredible watches. Their watches start at well under $200, they are about to release a mechanical diver soon also assembled in Ohio. www.vaerwatches.com .There are no 100% made in the US automatic watches because there are currently no movement makers that make them at scale. There used to be. Even Shinola are using swiss movements. They also use a lot of parts made in asia, for example the majority of sapphire crystals are produced in Asia. Also as far as I know shinola also import their cases, they are not machined in Detroit. The only (nearly 100%) made US brand is a guy in LA called Cameron Weiss. He hand makes the components there but again not all. Check him out, fascinating brand and company weisswatchcompany.com/ When you really educate yourself on US watch making you will see what a real sham Shinola actually is in my view.
@mikedru2912 6 жыл бұрын
At eBay prices they are fine just like 90% of other brands
@CasualWatchReviews 6 жыл бұрын
Thanks for commenting, just shows how much they depreciate over time.
@anthonybarnes7393 4 жыл бұрын
Man, I'm really glad I watched this video. Being naive about Shinola and watches more importantly, I was probably a day away from buying one. Thanks!
@CasualWatchReviews 4 жыл бұрын
Hey Anthony, yep that ware not at all good value for money. I have made a few more uploads about them. If you are looking for any ideas for watches join us over on the 'casual watch talk' facebook group and we may be able to give you some ideas.
@carlphil450 2 жыл бұрын
If you read every review of every watch and brands you will end up asking time to strangers on the street.
@bravobear1844 5 жыл бұрын
Buy* an Oris! They are stunning!
@CasualWatchReviews 5 жыл бұрын
I agree for the money an Orise is a much better idea!
@heisenbergguy7772 Жыл бұрын
I have a few Shinola watches. It’s quality is impeccable!
@CasualWatchReviews Жыл бұрын
If you like them thats all that matters!
@mattmedia4684 9 ай бұрын
Price wise it compares to Movado .... a quartz movement does 1 thing keep time. But there quartz are made in the USA with swiss parts. There aren't many products made in the USA no need to find a reason to keep USA priducts inferior
@CasualWatchReviews 9 ай бұрын
My good friends over at Vaer Watches are trying to make as much of a watch in the US as possible. But its proving hard. All the proper watch making equipment was sold off to china a long time ago.
@theredspoon1763 6 жыл бұрын
Lool, I just took a look at their bikes. If there's one thing that is definitely overpriced, it's their bikes. Sorry but as a bike mechanic and sportsman I can tell U: don't ever dare to buy a Shinola bike! If you want something retro, go for Pashley!
@CasualWatchReviews 6 жыл бұрын
Hi Leo, thanks for commenting and watching. That is some really good information coming from a bike mechanic, thanks for the input.
@pimeye 5 жыл бұрын
John Lewis a discount store - lol! You mean tk-maxx. They are selling Shinola Runwell Chrono for £299.99.
@CasualWatchReviews 5 жыл бұрын
Oh wow did I say that? John Lewis is no discount store. Going in at christmas is a recipe for spending all your wages!
@pimeye 5 жыл бұрын
@@CasualWatchReviews www.tkmaxx.com/men/workwear/tan-leather-chronograph-watch/p/76018972
@True-os6tg 6 жыл бұрын
You can buy a piece of history in a Bulova moon watch for half the price .
@CasualWatchReviews 6 жыл бұрын
Absolutely or a decent mechanical watch!
@brianfuller5868 6 жыл бұрын
Good video again.
@CasualWatchReviews 6 жыл бұрын
Thanks Brian, I don't normally do 'rant' type videos but this brand is really misleading people who want to do good for the people of Detroit.
@AkiraTano 6 жыл бұрын
I really believe shinola to be rather disingenuous. And as stated by other comments, I don't seem to be the only one. Even their new automatic diver that's just been released is way over priced for what it is. I can find a lot of watches that are much better in any of shinola's price points. Great video, Sam. Thanks for this. Cheers.
@CasualWatchReviews 6 жыл бұрын
Thanks Robert! Yep I thought I was going to get some mixed feelings on this but most viewers seem to feel the same way. Really surprised when I found that timex that looked almost the same for $58
@maverickwatchreviews 6 жыл бұрын
Well said sir! Shinolas have hyper-inflated prices meant to to prey on the average consumer that knows next to nothing about watches. Shinola reminds me of Invicta and I can't stand Invicta for many of the same reasons. Great video :)
@CasualWatchReviews 6 жыл бұрын
Yes I couldn’t agree more. Like I said in the video people will think they are getting decent watch for that price, its confusing between proper brands that make quality watches at the same price point!
@thermionic1234567 5 жыл бұрын
Maverick Watch Reviews Invicta makes a few great watches at very-reasonable prices. No one actually pays their MSRP.
@thermionic1234567 5 жыл бұрын
The Casual Watch Reviewer Well said!
@jasonm950 5 жыл бұрын
So,Archie Luxury is damn right Shinola is shitter?!
@CasualWatchReviews 5 жыл бұрын
I don't think they offer good value for money honestly, there is a lot of better choice out there!
@littlesoundboxes121 3 жыл бұрын
I love Shinola watches. Just my opinion.
@CasualWatchReviews 3 жыл бұрын
Yep and thats totally cool! Would be a boring world if we all agreed all the time 😂
@christopherjefferson3561 6 жыл бұрын
Lol. Love that u showed a tin of vintage Shinola. In the American south we got a saying if one is dumb or ignorant: ‘you don’t know shit from Shinola’. No thx!
@CasualWatchReviews 6 жыл бұрын
Hi Christopher. Thanks for commenting. Yep I wish I could actually find one of those tins, seems to have a lot more 'history' than the brand and probably put a lot more Americans to work at the time it was produced than the watch company does.
@armandojuan64 6 жыл бұрын
I own the same computer monitor .
@CasualWatchReviews 6 жыл бұрын
Do you? Do you notice it ever going like pink when it wakes up from sleep? Its really annoying me at the moment!
@armandojuan64 6 жыл бұрын
Mine is the 25es , HP sellss the 23es and the 27es . Yours looks like the 27es . Mine works like a charm , no problems whatsoever but if your settings are off a little bit , it can do that sometimes . That is a high resolution monitor so make sure you are using the HDMI cable instead of the regular one . That may fix the problem . Double check the settings . Love your channel .
@tbwpiper189 2 жыл бұрын
Egard...great watch...great ethos.
@searam1 6 жыл бұрын
Crap is crap! I almost feel like your hesitant to call them out for what they are. I also think Shinola are admirable for creating jobs, but they are grossly overpriced! Your videos, on the other hand, are great and I always appreciate an honest review! Ta!
@CasualWatchReviews 6 жыл бұрын
Hi Sean, as you can imagine I totally agree with you!
@patrickcannady2066 5 жыл бұрын
I wouldn't buy their quartz watches. I would certainly consider a Bedrock or a Runwell with an automatic movement, especially a Bedrock chronograph. Very attractive watch, but the quartz movement is a turnoff.
@CasualWatchReviews 5 жыл бұрын
An interesting concept. They have tried a mechanical before and now with Fossil owning STP Movement manufacturer? You can guarantee if they do do them they will be very overpriced.
@theredspoon1763 6 жыл бұрын
Your opinion about quartz movements is not 100% true. The Grand Seiko Quartz movements are one of the best watch movements in the world. The are handmade and even their circuit boards are supposed to be hand-etched. The quartz crystal takes 3 months to break-in and age properly, before it is used for the movement. The movement by the way has temperature indicators to work properly in every environment. I would dare to say that those movements are built more complex than some of their automatic pendants.
@CasualWatchReviews 6 жыл бұрын
I’m not arguing on quartz. No one could probably argue they are inferior to mechanical movements for time telling accuracy, I actually said this specifically in the video. My opinion was that the movements in shinola are run of the mill quartz. I made no mention of grand seiko, I’m not familiar enough with their movements so thanks for adding that detail I think my subscribers would find that interesting are you an expert in quartz movements? Happy to do a collaboration video with you if you are.
@theredspoon1763 6 жыл бұрын
Sure, the shinola movements are crap. I am very much into GS watches and have been of the opinion that quartz is cheap for quite a long time. I am no expert for sure and love mechanical watches more tan anything else, but those quartz movements are built second to none. Just take a look at their website and watch their factory tour videos. And they are compared to other high-end watches quite affordable. You get one of them for about 1.7k. Just look up the Grand Seiko Quartz SBGX063 ;)
@thermionic1234567 5 жыл бұрын
The Casual Watch Reviewer I am absolutely amazed by many of the responses to what you said about low-end quartz movements and Shinola’s use of them. People are putting words in your mouth and I find it ominous that their thought processes and listening abilities are so distorted! Do they actually believe what they are saying? Or are they constructing straw men?
@davidcrandall4958 Жыл бұрын
They are. Ronda movements installed in Detroit!
@CasualWatchReviews Жыл бұрын
Yep, assembled in Detroit. Just not ‘Made’ in Detroit.
@markw7303 6 жыл бұрын
no its not its actually a worse proposition then shinola even (omega or tag quartz)
@CasualWatchReviews 6 жыл бұрын
Hi Mark, thanks for commenting. What do you mean? That Tag and Omega quartz represent worse value than Shinola? I would differ in opinion on Omega as the quartz models they use are a very high quality. Also they retain their value much more percentage wise than Shinola.
@DynMFree7269 4 жыл бұрын
There certainly is a lot of hate against Shinola and I’m not sure exactly why. If you feel they’re too expensive for what you’re getting, you don’t have to buy one. And I wouldn’t say you’re incorrect about the bare bones value being considerably lower that what they’re selling for either. However, you have to factor in other things when considering value. Is it a good watch as far as reliability, style and longevity? I was born and raised in Detroit, and (whether or not it’s 100% made in Detroit - nothing really is anywhere that’s manufactured, so that’s a dumb point) being a Detroit company with the hotel adds value to me. But I get why someone outside of Detroit wouldn’t consider that as monetary value. But honestly, the watches you pictured in price comparison, don’t look like watches I’d even purchase at the price point you say Shinola watches should be at. The Shinola watches have much more style and as long as they are quality pieces and have consistent reliability, their price is worth what they’re asking.
@CasualWatchReviews 4 жыл бұрын
Hi, thanks for watching and adding a really comprehensive comment. I presume you are watching this upload in isolation and not among the rest of my uploads? I have made a few on Shinola and I pride myself on reviewing large and Small watch brands, in particular US brands when I can get hold of them. In the hundreds of watches I have reviewed, I can assure you Shinola is the worst value for money you can get in a watch. What they charge for a simple quartz watch is nothing short of outrageous in my opinion. Thats why you see so many of them at significant discounts in Nordstrom rack and countless on eBay that people can’t shift. Shinola are actually reducing their staff if you read recent news stories about their business model. I review a lot of microbrands and there are some great value US brands out there you can feel good about supporting. Two guys in LA who used their own money to build a watch, they released a mechanical recently that is great value for money. If it wasn’t I would have called them out on it like I did here with Shinola. I’m also currently reviewing another watch that was designed in Detroit. That is a guy actually from Detroit, not a company that moved there to pull on everyone’s heartstrings so they could sell a vastly over priced watch. There are watch companies in Denver, Baltimore, LA and San Diago that are doing some excellent watches at really good value. The US used to be one of the worlds biggest watch makers before the quartz crisis in the 1970, finally its getting its reputation back but unfortunately brands like Shinola do more harm to that reputation than good. Putting a $20 ronda movement on a $50 case paying someone $20 an hour to do it, does not add up to $500-700. I can send links to all the brands I mentioned if you like just let me know or email me. And if you still feel I did Shinola a raw deal here your welcome on the channel or podcast to give the opposing argument.
@Mr.Martini549 Жыл бұрын
Just purchased a Runwell Chrono 41mm Midnight Blue. It was love at first sight. Too handsome of a watch to pass up. Plus they were having a 25% off 10 year anniversary sale so that took a bit of the sting out of the $795 price tag. I look forward to wearing it for years to come but don’t plan on making it a habit of buying their brand. Yes, overall their watches are grossly overpriced. I’m a proud metro Detroit native and I always like to help out Detroit brands whenever possible.
@CasualWatchReviews Жыл бұрын
Hey, my friends Dave who is from Detroit, assembles watches at his home in Detroit. Look up ‘Detroit Mint’ there is also a ‘Detroit Watch Company’ again based in Detroit. You probably have not heard of them because they don’t try and exploit people feelings for Detroit to sell over priced watches under the guise of somehow helping Detroit, even though most of the money is shipped over to their Texas owners.
@gooodies4u1 8 ай бұрын
I like shinola merely for the fact america has sent so much of our business overseas its destroying our economy and we import much more of our daily uses than we export. Instead of us leading some of the historically poor countries we are in huge debt to them. So all parts not made here because weve given too much away it provides many jobs and pride back to a community stripped of its livelihood and community. Americans spend too much on so called foreign and luxury brands that do nothi g for our economy on immediate circumstances
@CasualWatchReviews 8 ай бұрын
Yep, Shinola is not the brand in my eyes for this. It’s more smoke and mirrors with them. If you looking for companies that are working hard to ‘make’ or ‘assemble’ as much of a watch as possible in the US, you should check out Jack Mason, Vaer, Wiss watches, TSAO Baltimore and if you love the idea of a detroit watch you should look up Detroit Mint and the Detroit Watch Company,
@StephenRoseDuo 6 жыл бұрын
So crazy how absolutely everyone, myself included, has the same opinion on Shinola and it's ridiculous prices
@CasualWatchReviews 6 жыл бұрын
Absolutely, I must have seen about 30 in a Nordstrum Rack (This is an outlet in the US if any one is not familiar). For a 3rd of the price. They where sharing a shelf with Michael Kors and Invicta. The Invicta Pro diver for less than 100 is better value than any Shinola I will add.
@mojoaguilera8211 4 жыл бұрын
Yeah the review lacks substance but is filled with personal thought
@CasualWatchReviews 4 жыл бұрын
I added all my research in the description. Just do a basic google search and you will be able to back up a lot of what I said here in this upload.
@wh1p88 6 жыл бұрын
Not true. I've seen their watches pretty cheap on the grey market and in line or more competitive than offerings from other major brands. As the saying goes, don't pay retail.
@CasualWatchReviews 6 жыл бұрын
Hi R K, what is not true? I would argue that with the number of their own retail stores that don't offer a discount, my mentioning of the retail price is justified. The fact that you can find them much cheaper online is very telling of the quality and the 'hype'. I would say even these 'discounted' online prices are still over the odds for the watch you are getting. Timex for example don't inflate their price massively then fall back on 'well you can find them cheaper online'.
@wh1p88 6 жыл бұрын
By your logic then, you should make a video for all fashion designer watches, as their prices are too unjustified. As with anything, if you buy directly from the company you're paying a big premium. Yes, online you will find cheaper prices, as with any other brand. It's nothing to do with quality or hype, it's just a decrease from a high retail price point. The Shinola Mackinaw Field watch is around 200 dollars on the grey market and features a coin edge bezel, sapphire glass and 200 meter water resistance. Sounds more than fair doesn't it?
@CasualWatchReviews 6 жыл бұрын
Yes this is my argument over all, if you watch my upload on the potential bankruptcy of Fortis I argue that fashion watches like Shinola are actually making people think they are getting quality watches similar to mechanical watches. When you are pricing a at watch with a $30 quarts movement at Shinola prices and you can get a mechanical watch for the same price, then people who know nothing about watches are going to assume they are a similar quality. I believe this is impacting the watch industry more than smart watches etc. And when you can get a Seiko SKX009 for $200 I dont think that shinola is a good deal really.
@wh1p88 6 жыл бұрын
What you fail to understand is that most people who buy watches are not enthusiasts such as you or I. If people fail to do their research, that is their problem, as is with any decision or purchase made in life. You can't knock a company doing better over another if anything they deserve praise. The SKX is not good value for that price point, I could find a sellita sw200 or ETA 2824 for around 200 or just a bit over. There a much better automatics for that price point. The movement in the 009 is housing a 7s26 movement which is cheap and non hackable, can't handwind, hairspring issues, not very accurate or smooth. The bracelet is cheap. The watch has alignment issues. No sapphire glass or ceramic insert for the bezel. Hope that makes sense? Good night.
@CasualWatchReviews 6 жыл бұрын
Yes your right about people failing to do their research, thats what compelled me to do this video. If you can find a ETA 2824 for $200 then that is great even more reason not to buy a Shinola. My main argument in the video was actually for the Hamilton Khaki. I just mention the SKX009 as new, its in the $200 price mark for any one else reading this. Good discussion anyway, let me know what you think of some of the other videos I uploaded.
@zacharyryan1719 2 жыл бұрын
The hate for Shinola is so bizarre. In my experience their watches are reliable, very well made, and look fantastic. These whiners about marketing and price are driving me nuts!
@CasualWatchReviews 2 жыл бұрын
Why did you watch this then, its clearly in the title what the video is about? FYI, this has exponentially more likes than dislikes, install the chrome extension and see.
@zacharyryan1719 2 жыл бұрын
@@CasualWatchReviews The title wasn't specific on why. I thought maybe you had a bad experience. It fell apart, the movement stopped working, etc. Not just you whining about that it's over priced or that the marketing was confusing. I'm happy for you that people like your videos, I am just looking for real reasons.
@CasualWatchReviews 2 жыл бұрын
Marketing was confusing? They are the only watch company in history to be hauled in front of the FTC. The FTC called their marketing tactics ‘deceptive’ not confusing. I’m just letting people know they are over priced… but you actually paid that price so if your looking for validation you made a good purchasing decision this video was not for you, in my opinion if you paid anywhere near full price you got ripped off. Just look at ebay to see how badly they resale for. The title of the upload was ‘why I wouldn’t buy their watches’ not ‘I bought one’ I think I even said in the first 5 mins the construction was solid and well made? Just not $700 for a $25 Ronda quartz movement good. All hype and no real watch making substance.
@zacharyryan1719 2 жыл бұрын
@@CasualWatchReviews Yes, I looked for validation by watching a video titled, "Shinola: Why I wouldn't buy their watches." I was looking to see if maybe I had made a mistake, but your video actually gave me validation by not giving me a real reason not to buy one.
@CasualWatchReviews 2 жыл бұрын
Then I would highly encourage you to buy one preowned then. I may have said that in this upload, I have certainly talked about it on the podcast a few times. I would also look into other detroit based or US watch companies. Check out ‘detroit mint’ I would also check out Tsao in Baltimore and one of my favorites Vaer. Vaer is based in LA, watches assembled near Chicago. Better value in almost every way and you would be supporting independent watch making in the US… not just Fossil watches version 2.
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