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There's a reason People cheered when Thanos punches the shit out of Captain Marvel

The Villains are still around. They just write, produce and direct now.

In the first Matrix, we see Trinity being a badass, but eventually being outdone by the agents, and only just escaping. It gave me respect for her as a character, and also a higher sense of tension and fear of the agents. This isn’t rocket science y’all.

We live in a world in which a fan made movie with no budget is way more satisfying than billion dollar Hollywood movies

The saddest thing is that Kylo - even though he's an inadequate villain - actually is a more interesting character than all the protagonists...

I think Davy Jones is also a great example of a visually intimidating villain.

Kylo is a better antihero than a villain I suspect. Still, I will note: a villain being dangerously unstable rather than cool and collected can definitely work as well (see Homelander), but it has to ensure that the instability is genuinely dangerous to others.

There's no such thing as bad guys anymore, they are just misunderstood, and we get movies centered on them to help us sympathize with them and make them appear as good people.

"If your antagonist starts out weaker than the hero, then what the fuck is there left to strive against?" - Possibly the most succinctly perfect and true statement about the problem I've ever heard. There are so many aspects to strength, and these days villains seem to have incredible weaknesses written into them.

Never allowing a woman to lose implies that she is NOT equal. Thanks for the likes, folks.

1980s villain; (Vader kills someone's and then says) Apology accepted 2020's villain; if you dont do what I say Imma tell my mommy

"A hero is only as strong as the villain they defeat." Well said.

Considering how ridiculously powerful Rey is, the Disney trilogy should've made *her* the villain. It could've been a Negative Change Arc, as we'd see her fall to the Dark Side and Kylo Ren would evolve into the hero the story needed. *That* would've been *way* more interesting that what we actually got.

I'll never forget seeing endgame, and laughing my ass off when the audience cheered at Thanos punching Captain Marvel. That really said it all for me.

This is one reason I LOVED Puss N Boots. Jack Horner has all the elements of a villain that ends up being more sympathetic. Instead, as the film's Jiminy Cricket described it, "You're an irredeemable MONSTER!" Death has all the elements of a scary villain, but he's more like a ruthless force of nature.

The last really good villian I can recall was Anton Chigurh, in "No Country For Old Men". He never raised his voice or got angry the whole movie, and was absolutely terrifying!!!!

The funny part is, had Kylo Ren *won,* that could have actually made things work more. Imagine a villain that starts inept but becomes a major force towards the end. Ya know, if the hero is static, make the villain dynamic.

Ripley is a great example of a woman who isn't a goddess, she's just a normal person who overcomes impossible odds because of her will and wit

With villains like Darth Vader, Hannibal Lector and the T1000, we were spoiled for amazing villains in our younger years. I'd almost forgotten how powerful a good strong competent villain could be. But they should be as truly iconic as the hero that has to face off against them. The T1000 was one of my all time top villains, because if you arent all in on the fight, you will absolutely lose and fast.

“Easily brushed aside when the script decides it’s time for them to lose” is the best articulated point about how disingenuous modern film villains have become. Villains are formidable, there is a reason why Darth Vader walks slow and it’s because he moves for no one.

As I woman, I hate getting pandered to. As if I'm not as smart as male movie watchers, like I need to have stories fed to me like I was a child.

I was on an elevator at a sci-fi convention. We're all on our way down to the late night parties, when the elevator stops, the doors glide open, and frickin Darth Vader steps on, turns to face the doors, and never speaks a word. The whole elevator went silent. It was one of the most surreal experiences of my life. Everybody *knew* that it was just a nerd in a costume, but it didn't matter. His presence was simply that *imposing*.

You missed something important about Darth Vader. When you mentioned his first appearance, we get set up for a guy that’s not f-ing around. I saw it in the theater when I was in elementary school. Darth Vader was the ultimate. It was so effective I didn’t realize until 2022 that he only had eight minutes of screen time in New Hope. Yep, eight minutes. And just a handful of lines, that’s it. In a film class last year we had to study New Hope and analyze every scene. Studying each scene I realized I wasn’t really seeing Darth much at all. It’s crazy that Lucas did all that character development with eight minutes.

Lest we forget behind the mask buried in there is Anakin Skywalker which intensifies the intrigue for Vader tenfold

You either die a villain or you live long enough to see your character get woke and get broke.

“The better the villain, the better the movie” -Hitchcock

The fact that so many of these terrible villains are portrayed by actors who have done excellent work playing roles in other projects proves the writing is definitely what matters most!

I'm using your videos as writing advice. Your way of explaining things has really helped me understand what traps to avoid, and how to provide a certain suspense that would validate the motivations of my heroes and villains. You might be a reviewer, but your complaints have a depth than modern journalism can't match. In short, thank you.

"What Happened To Our Villains?" They went into politics and journalism.

It's odd that we are judged for disliking these characters because of their gender when it's the writers that clearly have an issue with gender.

Gul Dukat is one of the best and most complete villains to ever exist and was portrayed so well by Marc Alaimo. Gul Dukat, while evil and conflicted, thought he was the hero and saw himself as heroic. He was the perfect foil for Sisko.

So basically, Hollywood's attempts to avoid offending certain people end up offending certain other people.

It's like they think the Joker is so iconic because he's funny. So they make funny villains hoping it will have the same effect. Completely missing the point...that the Joker is the one clown you wouldn't dare laugh at.

The thing is that kylo being an immature, ineffective child was a really good starting point for the character. They just chose to never address it and grow from there. They decided to straight up just ignore it.

"The problem with good guys, is that they have to follow the rules. Bad guys make their own rules"

What happened to our villains? They're our 'heroes' now. The CW's Batwoman comes to mind as a specific example. So many of the new-generation "heroes" don't just have flawed personalities, they have the personality of an anti-villain ... or worse.

I'd rather see a weak woman overcome her shortcomings to defeat a stronger male character(Like cartoon Mulan) not a god woman beating a weakling "man" (Like in the Mulan remake)

The worst thing is that Kylo Ren still is by far the most interesting character in the sequel...

Kylo becoming the hero would have been great. But still we would have expected more character development from Rey, cause she felt dragged by the plot more than anything else. Yet, yes, imagining a shakepearian tale of a doomed hero that killed jedis + his father (which is also an historic fan favorite) whom redeems himself to "save the galaxy" almost give me goosebumps. Plus what a material for future possible sequels : having a hero that's actually done too many bad stuff to be forgiven, and has to live haunted by what he's done.

I just found this channel a few days ago and weirdly, you've been spot on about everything so far. I teach introductory film at a college and I just WISH I could show your vids to my college students.. but then someone would whine to my boss and my union would have to hire a lawyer... I guess what I'm saying is that although people *say* that college professors have autonomy and academic freedom, we don't. So there's that...

Darth Vader : "Sister, so you have a twin sister. Your feelings have now betrayed her too. Obi-wan was wise to hide her from me. Now his failure is complete. If you will not turn to the Dark side then perhaps she will." Luke : *let's his rage take over* - This is why Vader is the most legendary bad@ss villain in cinematic history, even in defeat he wins.

John Wick killed everyone, no discrimination. Just remember that.

If not for the trinity of Georges writing, David Prowses physical portrayal, and finally James Earl Jones voice bringing out Vaders eloquent menace. I don't think Vader would have become one of the greatest Villains in cinema.

this is why I end up rooting more for villains nowadays, a lot of them became the underdog. The roles are reversed and so is the effects of the characters.

The coolest thing about Vader in the first film was he was even an outcast by the Imperials who either looked down upon his supernatural beliefs or were just plain too scared of him to associate, leaving him truly isolated and working directly for the antagonistic cause with no other motivations. A true black knight character more than the typical evil general archetype.

A great villain not only opposes the main character but also exposes and eventually burns away the main character's flaws.

One of the main problems from movies is that there are too many jokes in them you cant take anything seriously in it because every minute there is this stupid joke that is never funny you can have jokes in a movie but there is always so many jokes that like I said you can’t take anything seriously in a movie

i miss the villains like agent smith that can command the aura of a whole room and making you shivers when he said “Human beings define their reality through misery and suffering”

No, Vader didn’t stop a blaster bolt midair. He just deflected them off an outstretched hand like a true badass.

"What would Captain Marvel be without Brie Larson?" My fucking sides, man lmao

Maximilian the robot in the film the black hole was an intimidating menacing villain, there was nothing weak or conflicted about him. He was very vader like. soon as kylo took the helmet off his character was ruined, people had hope for snoke and they killed him off too, the message was more important to them than a great villain in the 3 films

We need a movie where the Writers, Directors, Producers and other members who support them to be portrayed as Villains and the guy wins against them and makes them feel like they were the Baddies all along...

He is exactly correct. This is beyond a trope by now.

This is why Alita was a better female hero. She got FUCKED up, and even needed help from her male counterparts (gasp!), which made it more satisfying seeing her overcome her enemies later.

Anton Chigrr from No Country for Old Men is the greatest antagonist in recent cinema history, in my opinion. He is capable, cold blooded as hell, but he also is a man who lives by some higher code than merely his own whims. The coin toss scene in the filling station, and the one at the end of the movie were epic.

If there's something I've learned as I continue to age and grow in this time period, it's that everyone who once strived for equality decided that it either wasn't given to them quickly enough, or that it simply wasn't enough. Almost no one wants true neutrality and true equality, these days. Everyone wants to be special and everyone wants to be treated differently. But rather than earn it, they feel _entitled_ to it because of their ancestry or the way things went in a relatively distant past. And unfortunately, big companies like to bend over backward to these kinds of people because they are - or were - the "unspoken minority". Give people an inch and they'll take a mile. 🤷‍♀

True. Modern Villians are more like anti or tragic heroes.

Captain Marvel's only weakness was that she didn't believe in her power. Hilarious.

As soon as I heard the, "Who talks first?"' Line I felt like I was watching one of those Judd Apatow flicks with awkward dialogue. Then when Starkiller was revealed it hit me that I was watching a fucking remake...

This is my favorite video of yours. Every word is absolute inescapable truth. And unfortunately, the more pampered society becomes, the more it becomes offended with, and the less flexible our stories become. We are headed toward a very boring inoffensive future.

Rey can swim in the Last Jedi. She grew up in the desert. But she can swim. She can pilot a boat in the Rise of Skywalker, in a storm that was supposed to be dangerous. Nope. Rey can do it with ease. Han flew the Falcon for decades. Rey fixes the compressor and saves them. Fixed the Falcon in a way that Han is impressed by, almost like Han couldn’t do it himself.

It’s crazy how count dooku and Darth maul who barely have any screen time are better villains than any of the sequel villains

This reminds me of John McEnroe's "controversy" when he said it as it was, that women and men compete differently, and when asked where he would place one of the Williams sisters, he said about 700th in the mens division.

Some of those negative traits, like insecurity or lack of self-control, can still work for a villain, so long as they're handled in a way that still threatens the hero. The problem is that these traits are used more as a way to make it easier for the hero to win. Or, a villain might have one or more of these traits, but keep them well-hidden, and the hero can't win unless they manage to uncover that weakness. Some tropes and traits aren't good or bad in themselves; it sometimes just depends on how they're used. More often than not in modern movies, they're used poorly and only serve an agenda.

Eowyn from "The Lord of the Rings" is a female character who scores the greatest single-combat victory by any human in the entire saga. Not one of the male heroes scores a one-on-one win on par with defeating Sauron's right hand man, the immortal Witch King (admittedly, she had help from Merry, but while his heroism made victory possible, Eowyn still had to actually go out and win- she had to kill a freaking dragon before she could even take a shot at the SOB). And she does this all while protecting the body of King Theoden. Protecting the body of a your fallen king from capture and mutilation was the most noble thing an Anglo-Saxon warrior could do, so she is excelling in a variety of traditionally male roles all without magically making the men incompetent, sacrificing her femininity, or coming across as a "Strong Female Character". And she was written by a deeply conservative Catholic man with zero interest in any feminist agenda. Oh, the delicious irony.

In 20 years the villains are going to act and look like the main actor from Robinhood: Men in Tights.

I actually think the childish outburst thing could have been scary had it been done right. It could have made him dangerously unpredictable, but they would have had to make the outbursts overwhelming to everyone around him, especially the hero.

So true! I remember how I felt reading the red wedding and the absolute dismay I felt as my favourite characters were eviscerated.... almost threw my kindle at the wall! what it really did was make me fear for the rest of the characters as they were now genuinely vulnerable in a way I'd never felt reading fantasy before, and every obstacle overcome from then on felt like a genuine achievement (and relief)

Interestingly enough, the first Thor movie strikes a perfect balance by having Thor be emotionally immature but stronger than Loki, who is more composed and knows how to manipulate things in his favor. It's more a subtle relationship between the protagonist and antagonist.

_”...You’ll never get your audience to care about their struggle, because they don’t have one.”_ ...The Drinker nails it.

One of the best movie villain I know was The Operative from Serenity (2005) played by Chiwetel Ejioford. Very (very) well written and interpreted adversary with a clear motive, calm, smart, methodical, unshakable resolution and supreme competence. Very scary guy.

When I watched that movie at the theater, at first I loved Kylo Ren and that was it until he removed the mask. I actually shouted PUT IT BACK PLEASE, PUT IT BACK! which provoked a huge laughter at the theater. Kylo changed from a psycho with Force powers to a whinny crybaby in that move, absolutely killing everything of value this movie had for me.

Short answer: Weak people got the copyrights to them.

Kylo Ren's whole "conflicted angry dramatic teenager trying to be something he's not" thing isn't even bad. That's actually a pretty fleshed out flaw to have, especially knowing what his past is. But considering it was used to lift Rey up instead of turning Ben into a compelling character, it just makes him look pathetic.

3.1 million views, hopefully one of those people was a film director

"Blessed is the man who has powerful enemies, for they shall make him a hero" - Might is Right, 1896

I think "Lazy Town" was the last mainstream TV show with believable villains.

I've always felt that it's because "heroes" are now the self-insert of the writer. One who often has an agenda. The villain then becomes the embodiment of what the writer hates. So, instead of Darth Vader we get whiny, screamy, tantrum-throwing pseudo nazis. Instead of Zuul, we get a sort of hateful and socially awkward incel. We get white men mansplaining their evil plans to the heroic women who have been given only x0.77 of the respect he has been given all their lives. All of which makes for really boring villains.

In Ragnarok, I think the whole point is that Hela was basically too strong even for Thor, and that part of his character development was knowing when it would be worth to admit defeat, run away, and live to see another day. I also liked him realising that he would not be able to defeat her with strength or raw power.

Rey being able to even keep up with Kylo was just so fucking stupid. He’s been training for his entire life, and she’s known she’s force sensitive for all of 5 minutes, but is somehow able to pull off massive force feats and beat a 15 year force user, by just existing. 🤮

"Dumb, illogical command decisions and punishes people for asking logical questions" so kylo ren is rian Johnson

"Exploding with childish displays of emotion whenever things don't go his way" ironically describes the people who cause this problem.

The first time I saw the "misunderstood villain" i thought it was a unique take and pretty awesome. Its quickly worn its welcome.

Drinker, you might be the best analyst on KZfaq. Keep up the good work.

This is what happens when you have a generation of "writers" that were never taught how writing actually works.

“What would captain marvel be without Brie Larson?” I’d be fuckin better

Man, I really hope you're proud of this intro 'cause it was one of the best I've seen

I think it can be super interesting for a villain to start off weaker then the hero in the beginning. It can make their rise more terrifying, and can lead to cool moments where the heroes realize they drastically underestimated their potential. Cell from dragon ball is a great example. They could have done something like that with Kylo, but no

"Movies now days can't have a man beating up a woman" John wick 2: I'm about to do what's called a pro gamer move

We live in a world where people are rewarded for barely trying, these movies are the wet dreams of those people who don’t want to hit any bumps on the road or an obstacle but gain everything.

I learned more from your videos than my postgrad creative writing classes.

The funny thing is, you can write "weak" villains good too. Look at Prince Zuko from Avatar the Last Airbender, Zuko basically gets his ass kicked by Aang the entire first season however he's shown as young and arrogant but honorable and admittedly has much to learn. So as time goes on he trains and gets better, every fight gets harder and harder for the heroes to the point where if he didn't wind up switching sides, he probably would've been the most dangerous fire bender alive. Good enough writing can bend the rules if it wants to

Honestly, Kylo Ren had sooooo much potential to be a striking villain. He definitely had the look, and his character at the start kinda felt like Zuko's (immature, trying to be something, etc.), but nothing became of it. He was written to be poured down the drain and kiss the feet of the Ma-Rey Sue protagonist.

Remember the outrage when Apocalypse choked mistique and everybody lost their minds? Oh no ,the villain does an evil thing!

I know this is about film, but maybe this is also one of the reasons I love Brandon Sanderson's stories. His villains have armies, or god-like powers, or *literally* are that world's god, or are even wildly more socially adept than the main protagonist. It makes their defeat seem impossible until it happens, and it's the most amazing triumph.

Thank you for this video, it is very educational for aspiring writers, who unlike them care about writing good character especially the antagonist. You added good examples and it was right comparation with bad examples. I hope you will upload new videos with similar topics.

You know, it didn't occur to me until watching this, but the sequel trilogy could have been a lot better if, in the end, Rey did turn to the dark side and Kylo turned out to be the hero that stopped her. Through the entire trilogy, Rey is written to be this unstoppable force; she accomplishes all of her goals with virtually no struggle and defeats Kylo multiple times over. Though skilled due to his prior training, Kylo starts out youthful and inexperienced, exemplified by his fits of rage and poor tactics. If he was shown to have taken each defeat handed to him and learn from them, tempering him with wisdom and experience, while Rey just continued to breeze through everything because that's just who she is, this would make Kylo's story the hero's journey while Rey is the opponent he struggles to overcome. Then at the end, because Rey hasn't actually learned anything because she's never been challenged, ends up unable to force back the Emperor and gets taken over, Kylo steps forward in an act of defiance to embrace the light and redeem himself, and finally is able to defeat her. If you still wanted Rey to be the ultimate victor, you could have Kylo defeating her involve sacrificing himself in some way so that it expels the Emperor and prevents him from taking her over again, maybe using that Force diad thing they made up, and then carry on as is, with Rey victorious but realizing 'Hey, I might need to actually work at this Jedi stuff' as she wanders off and setting up for future story lines for her. This would make Luke's involvement make more sense, because of course he didn't actually teach Rey anything, she was never his student; Kylo was. It would subvert expectations, actually flipping the roles on who's the hero and who's the villain, and reinforce the theme they were hinting at that bloodlines don't matter, the path you choose for yourself does. It wouldn't fix everything of course, but it would help somewhat.

One more thing about Vader that I find really scary is that he never runs, so if you run away from him you always fear that he is gonna be waiting for you ahead of you

That's why Thanos is so good. They built him up as a powerful violation through several films over nearly a decade, until he stepped in and absolutely destroyed the heroes, including killing several ruthlessly. He would murdere and torture anyone for what he saw as the Greater Good, including his daughters Nebula (who he was taking apart piece by piece in absolute agony) and Gamora (who was thrown off a cliff to her death.) Even though their pain obviously hurt him, he did what he had to for his goal. He was large and menacing, spoke in a deep voice, tortured and killed anyone he chose, and demolished the heroes without effort. Thanos is one of the only good villains from recent years.