I just get this really weird feeling that Flemeth is Andraste after hearing her story of crying out and an ancient being coming to her. Plus the paintings and statues of Andraste have the same crown helm as Flemeth, and the picture of the elf Shartan who was Andraste's closest friend was bald and carrying an key which could stand for his orb in his picture. Also kinds of makes me think it was Solas because the developer notes said Solas has been awake for ages not years. Plus the tevinors say Andraste was just a powerful mage which would make sense as Flemeth is a women carrying the soul of an elven god. Its just to much when added up. Bioware is either purposly making a very elborate ruse or it was all put there for the big releave of some sort at a later date.

Inside the temple of Mythal there is a mural that is easy to miss on the walls towards the end, it shows the ancient elves riding Halla while Dragons flying over head. Mythal was a dragon, just like the old gods of Tervinter were Dragons, the dragons were highly intelligent and taught the world about magic for there own ends-- though reasons still unknown. The will of dragons as well as the will of spirits and demons seems to be a big theme, not to mention how Corypheus introduces himself as "The Will of Corypheus" as if to say that the original no longer exists, just his will that can enter blighted bodies through his blood magic. So, in Andrastian they mention that when you die your "Soul" returns to The Fade, but I think this was a mistake and instead of soul it was your "Will" Your Will enters The Fade, and circulate there-- sometimes producing spirits. A little bit of extra stuff, The old gods that became Archdemons because of the blight were likely spirits in the form of dragons or possessing Dragons in order to have a bigger effect on the world. The obvious reason that I think this is because a spirit that has its "Purpose" twisted becomes a demon, so it is likely that the blight has the effect of twisting purpose(or will)-- only living things seem to result in a much greater side effect. One last theory, Lyrium is the will of the ancients crystallized and the blight causes the will to become twisted. In addition, Blood used in blood magic can be used much in the same way Lyrium is used, because blood of living things contain the will of the subject if drawn out, because Lyrium is hard to come by but blood is in every thing. The will that comes from dreams IS magic.

I also found this part about the codex on Andraste's daughters (more specifically, her daughter Vival who went into exile) very interesting; "What became of Vivial and her descendants is largely unknown for one primary reason: she had only daughters. Each of those daughters only had daughters. They married into other families and took other names, and in the chaos of the Second Blight, all traces of survivors were lost." You know who also only had daughters? Andraste. Flemeth. I've been wondering if there is a bit of truth to the grimoire Morrigan found -- that maybe Mythal has possessed her daughters in the past. However, they would have had to have been willing. It was more complex (ANDRASTE was more complex) than we know at this time. It's also interesting how that Andraste had "the Maker" talk to her in dreams. Especially when we know things like how Solas/Fen'Harel can talk to people in dreams (also, there's the story of the mabari, where Fen'Harel tried to talk to a Dalish and ends up being chased by mabari in the fade), Kieran is plagued by "dreams" by having an Old God soul. People who take lyrium or become a grey warden have nightmares, and those things are connected to old gods and the blight. If Morrigan had Kieran, we meet Flemeth in the Fade. Morrigan expresses shock that Kieran could do something like that since it would take immense power, but there we see Flemeth/Mythal there in the Fade with ease. I wouldn't be surprised if what people think was "The Maker" was actually Mythal's spirit talking to Andraste through dreams, before joining forces.

HOW DID I NOT NOTICE THIS MURAL???!!!

I believe that Andraste contained the spirit of Mythal just like Flemeth did. I realized this when my friend pointed out the fact that Andraste and Flemeth both were very sympathetic towards the Elves. They go beyond mere sympathy towards their plight as Andraste a Human with no reason to trust Elves gives them The Dales with no special conditions(like making them worship the Maker the religion she founded). Also Flemeth a Noble Alamarii woman again with absolutely no reason to trust elves becomes a lauded figure in Elven lore Asha'Bellanar (The Woman of Many Years) is known throughout the Dalish clans which means she has a substantial relationship with Elves. And as we know from Inquisition Flemeth was Mythal. So I believe that Mythal throughout the Ages has been targeting woman who have given up on life who are willing to believe anything (Andraste was a Slave in Tevinter and Flemeth had lost her true love) and promised them power or revenge if they accepted becoming her host I think the Chant of Light was something Mythal made up as Andraste to rally the people against Tevinter giving Andraste her revenge but she was betrayed before she could finish out her plan so she "jumped ship" to Havard and built The Temple of Sacred Ashes and also a secret Temple of Mythal where she could recover until she found someone else to host her. In the end I think that unlike Solas, Mythal still views the Elves as her people and is doing everything in her power to return them to glory even if that means freeing The Elven gods from their imprisonment.

Also the ashes of Andraste are supposed to heal everything ( and it seems to works since we used it on arl Eamon) and in DA2 you have this potion called Mythal's favor wich will bring you back from the dead. Weird coincidence no ?

Ashe, this may help: If Solas is Shartan, this would explain why Flemeth addressed him as "old friend". Mythal may carry the memories of her previous hosts with her, which would explain how Flemeth knew he was the Dread Wolf, as she remembered him from her time as Andraste. This still doesn't explain who the woman in the Well of Sorrows was, nor does it explain who/what that glowing spirit was. Was it the Divine? Was it Andraste? If it was just a spirit, then why do our memories show the Divine reaching to us, but in our actual playthrough (Right after CC) we see the Spirit, not the Divine? It doesn't quite add up. And I'm hesitant to trust "memories" from the fade.

What I found exeedingly interesting was how the *underside* of the temple has the *same* architecture as another city and place we've seen flying. Yes, take a close look at the underside of the temple as it's lifted and you'll notice it's the exact same as *The Black City.* My guess? This was Arlathan, mostly ripped away from Thedas when Solas locked the Old Gods away in the Fade. what remained was the core of the Veil, it's oldest point, and weakest point. And a temple to Mythal... long before that.

I love how much one can discuss and theorize about the Dragon Age universe. Such a well crafted setting. :3

There is a statue of Mythal in the temple in Origins. I saw it in one of the first rooms you enter in the temple during a recent playthrough of Origins. It was the first time I really noticed it because I didn't know it was Mythal until after Inquisition. I found it very odd that her statue would be there.

I'm glad you looked into this Ashe, whenever I'd read of Havard and Andraste there seemed to be such focus on the former in contrast to say, any of her other close followers. I also never would've noticed the mural of Mythal there probably, excellent find. :D

I was always a fan of the theory that Flemeth was, in fact, Andraste. In this way, I suppose she was, but I always assumed Flemeth has existed far longer than even her supposed origin in Highever during the Towers Age. It's weird to think that Flemeth, the great and powerful, was simply absorbed by Solas. I can only imagine the power that will unlock as he truly awakens.

Ashe just wanted to say thank you very much for taking the time in making these videos.

i am glad some people are so good at finding these kind of stuff because I am not nearly perceptive enough to notice this :) I can't wait to see what theories you've come up with yourself on Solas. i've even started a second playthrough to romance him, even though I usually only play male characters. i have a feeling like we'll see more of him in the future, though, and want an Inquisitor that is closer to him.

8D... Belief in maker.. almost shattered. Ouch imagine the andrastians. Poor peeps

Am I the only who was blown away when they said that Lyrium is alive ? Every one is so shock at the whole Flemeth is Mythal thing they all seemed to kinda gloss over that Lyrium that shit my mage drinks like it's juice is ALIVE!

I think that you're right about that. There is obviously a connection between Mythal and Andraste (along with Flemeth). Geek mentioned resemblance of this picture of Andraste with Flemeth, comparing whathever it is on their heads (i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--5KUf7BlP--/fdncvvhuomfbtijcjjem.png). She also brings up a picture of some bald guy with an orb that looks like Solas (picture called on da wikia 'Andraste's ascension and the weakened Imperium'). It's all messing with my head... so many questions, so little answers.. I'd like to know what are your thoughts in this subject, Lady Ashe? And about connection between Solas-Shartan? Aaaand a personal one - do you believe that our Lavellan would have an opportunity to reunite with Solas? Is there a hope for this 2 to be back together? He was my Lav sweetheart and seeing him so crushed about breaking up with her just broke and melted my heart :

Much smaller theory: "Mouse" from the Mage Origin story is actually the Spirit of Faith that revives Wynne during the events of the Broken Circle. Spirits can appear as demons to those who expect to see them as demons (according to Solas) and this would help explain why a supposed Pride Demon would just let the Warden escape the Fade unchallenged and unpossessed even if the Warden fails to realize that Mouse is not who he claims to be.

I believe strongly in this theory. I also believe strongly in the theory that either the old gods = the elven gods(that are sealed, perhaps not Mythal/Fen'Harel) OR the old gods = the forgotten ones. Also, Andraste could have been like Kieran. The proof that people have shown for this is that she was born the same year the first blight ended with Dumat. The Maker that Andraste could have been hearing could have been Dumat, and Dumat could have been Mythal, depending on what Elven gods you consider to truly be elven gods. There's a big reddit post on the theories I wrote out that go into more detail, but it is surely something to consider. Especially with how much Solas hates Grey Wardens.

The elven gods failed in their assignment in the world. As Flemeth says they 'betrayed the world' by seeking power and worshippers, causing wars, infighting, killing each other and general capriciousness. Again as Flemeth notes this betrayal led to things "that were not supposed to happen" happening. She herself was murdered and has spent ages seeking a reckoning. It is not clear if such a reckoning will involve drawing the ultimate Maker to pay attention to the mess his guardians have made? Did the elven gods have any contact with the Ultimate Maker? What reckoning can as Flemeth puts it "shake the heavens"?

If this is true it might explain why there are only stories of Flemeth and her "daughters". A codex entry in DA:I about Andraste's descendants mentioned a belief that the line of one of her daughters, only gave birth to daughters. Morrigan mentioned in DA:O about Flemeths supposed body jumping ritual, that some bodys would be better suited than others. Perhaps Mythal was also waiting for a descendant of Andraste. If Flemeth is descended from that bloodline, it would explain why she only ever had dughters. However, then we have Morrigan and Kieran. If Morrigan is descended from this bloodline, then how was it that her child was born a son? We could explain this with the only factor that could be different in the scenario where Kieran is born. The Blight.

I was just thinking what if those who use the ashes are bound to Mythal like those who use the well?

I think it was built on top of Mythal's temple and there isn't much to it more than that. It is a common practice in the real world too, many old mosques in Istanbul were former churches from the days of Constsntinople

The depictions of Mythal and Andraste share quite a bit of similarities; I wouldn't be surprised if there was more to connect them than just the appearance of their statues.

I believe in the Dread Wolf (or as I said the Coyote Spirit in some Native American cultures). And another (Geek Remix is her tag on youtube) pointed out that Solas has been as involved in key moments as Mythal.

There is a gift book in Orzemar that states that Andraste was a mage, though since it was a gift it didn't give much detail.

This set of theories is dedicated to draconology, dragon culture, and the history of dragons. (Feel free to take anything I say and use it in a video as your own. I'll be happy just to meaningfully contribute to these neato theories.) [Theory One: The Veil was meant to combat dragons.] Here's a new theory, and a continuation of my last one. I previously posited that the creation of the Veil was an attack upon supremely magical beings, as a way of neutralizing their power. At first I assumed it was the ancient elves, as it might have cut them off from immortality and much of their magic. But since the Veil is mostly penetrated via dreams, and the ancient elves have many accounts of dreaming being important in society, I had another idea. What if the Veil was not an attack upon elves by other elves, but an attack upon dragons (possibly by elves)? We know that dragons hold much power, especially within their blood. We know that they existed before the Veil, and were more powerful then, And we know that dragons spend a long, long, LONG time sleeping. One great dragon is even trapped in sleep until Maric or Alister provides blood to it. And dragons managed to sleep for ages before maturing and returning in the Dragon Age. I mean, for bodies so large it makes sense to sleep awhile, but dragons seem to be intrinsically linked to sleep. Trapped to it. What if dragons once ruled the sky and terrorized the land, to the point that those on the land rebelled? Dragons are powerful, sure, but with their huge bodies they are vulnerable to all sorts of things without that power. They probably couldn't achieve flight without magic, since their wings and chests aren't large enough. And breathing fire might be chemically possible, but I just got ambushed by a dragon that spewed lightning. Without access to magic, dragons are practically crippled, so cutting them off from it might be a perfect way to drag the dragons out of the sky. If magic were sealed behind the Veil, especially large or powerful dragons would be forced into slumber in order to reach that magic and stay alive. This keeps the more powerful dragons completely out of the game, while crippling the slightly less powerful. With the sudden absence of the world's largest predators, those beneath them in the food chain would be able to flourish greatly. Perfect for the rise of an immortal race known to have many dealing with the Fade and capable of grand and miraculous feats of magic. Also, did you know that wyvern blood creates similar but weaker effects to dragon blood, as both can awaken Reaver powers to different degrees? This (and their reptilian anatomy) points to a relation between wyverns and dragons, yet wyverns don't need to sleep so long. This is another point for my theory that power and size are large reasons for dragons to need to sleep so long. (Not that plain old exhaustion can't explain that, but still. They sleep to much for just that. Lazy lizards.) [Theory Two: SHAPESHIFTING DRAGONS and also elven deities.] Ever notice that Mythal has a lot of connections to them? Flemeth wants an Old God soul, and can turn into a high dragon. One of her daughters, Yavana, cares for dragons and tried to bring the great dragon back. The other, Morrigan, is the one who attempted to (and succeeded in, depending on the story line), preserving the Old God's soul, and can also turn into a high dragon. For an elven goddess, there's a lot of dragons, dragons, and more dragons in her family, and a lot less elven lore. (Morrigan's education on ancient elves was barely done at all, it seems, based upon how much Solas corrected her on. You'd thing Mythal would have accounts that did more than mirror the Dalish stories, so it clearly wasn't a priority.) This leads to a second interesting idea - what if the Elven Pantheon wasn't comprised of powerful elven mages, but of... wait for it... DRAGONS! Dragons are rather probably capable of magic, and shapeshifting can be taught to any mage, right. One becomes the form they take in almost every way, meaning that shapesifting would be a way to escape the effects that the Veil has upon dragons. It's also a nice correlation between elven gods and dragons, since they both seem to looooooooooove being worshipped. (One elven god killed countless people in order to be more widely adored, and dragon cults pop up just about everywhere. They seem to really like it for some reason.) Perhaps the dragons-as-elven gods were infiltrating elven society in order to exact revenge upon them, or reverse their creation of the Veil. Perhaps the dragons-as-elven gods used the elves in order to create the Veil in the first place, as a way to take out their competitors. (Maybe not all dragons were treated equally. If great dragons preyed upon high dragons, high dragons might want revenge upon them, or protection from them.) Shapeshifting dragons might explain the creation of the kossith, who looked very different from their descendents, the modern Qunari. Qunari were known to regard dragons as somewhat holy, and I think I recall Iron Bull saying that Qunari and dragons were kind of similar. It was only in passing, but it speaks of Qunari culture and how it regards dragons. Shapeshifting dragons-as-elven gods might explain some of Solas' disdane for elves as a whole, especially the Dalish. He loved the ancient elven society, but if the pantheon helped shape it then it would make sense for the kingdom to fit a dragon's taste. No reason to like elves or their descendents just for being elves, especially if you don't see yourself as one. Shapeshifting dragons-as-elven gods might explain why Mythal was murdered. If the dragons-as-elven gods were discovered to be dragons, the elves might be somewhat pissed at their manipulation. Shapeshifting dragons is also really, really, cool sounding. And it fits with Dragon Age's nice theme of needs-more-dragons. Archdemon? It's a dragon. Old God? Dragon. Forgotton Ones? Dragons. Mythal? Dragon. Elven Gods? Dragons. Great Dragons? Bet you're ass their dragons. We'll have dragons as final bosses and hidden bosses until the end of the Dragon Age. What age is it? DRAGON AGE. [Theory 3: Old Gods and gender identity. Intersex dragons, maybe?] Speaking of dragons, I noticed that the Old Gods are referred to as male, while high dragons and great dragons are all female, to my knowledge. This seems a bit odd, doesn't it? Especially since they had wings and were giant, much like high and great dragons. Now, they might be demons that took the form of dead dragons or something, but the last time a spirit took the form of a dead person (ala Divine Justinia V) that spirit gave no hints of changing gender identity. Not that dragons necessarily have gender identities. Which comes to the next possibility, that these dragons were transgendered, and identified as male while having female bodies. But again, we don't know ow gender identity would play out with dragons. They contain such a great amount of sexual dimorphism that identifying one's own gender at all would make little sense, as it holds no social value for a dragon. Human males and females are similar enough that gender identity might develop as a way to say, "Hey! Guess what I am!" With dragons, the difference between male and female is 50 feet and an extra set of limbs, so it changes the social dynamic a bit. The third possibility is that the Old Gods might have been female dragons that the Tevinter merely projected a male identity onto. The Tevinter were decidely patriarchal, and possibly still are, as all of the ancient magisters I've read about and seen have been male, and modern Tevinter has always placed a man into the position of Imperial Divine despite worshiping a female prophetess in Andraste. And while that certainly makes sense, I get the feeling that the Tevinter might have known most large dragons were female. They had no problem accepting Andraste as female, so pretending the Old Gods were male probably wasn't too necessary. (Though it'd be interesting to have a Groom of the Maker. Chant of Light becomes Chant of Rainbows. Hallelujah~!) Still, the Tevinter started off as mere scavengers of a greater falling culture, so if they started off with misconceptions about the sex and gender of dragons, I wouldn't put it past them to keep such facets going out of mere momentum. Inertia keeps hold over society fairly often, in both games and reality. But just in case, there is a last possibility. Say that the dragons were somehow physically male. Maybe they could fertilize the eggs of females, or maybe there was just something about their anatomy. Wings and great size are still biologically female secondary traits for dragons, meaning that the Old Gods would be intersex by most medical definitions. Intersex humans are not uncommon, as at least 1% of people (roughly the population of Australia) are intersex by the strictest definitions, and the number goes up the broader the definition of intersex gets. Non-mammals also occasionally experience something called gynandromorphy, where part of the body is made up of male cells while the other is made up of female cells. So an intersex dragon is possible. We don't know what these dragons would be like to other dragons, or why they would connect with the Tevinter Imperium of all places, but it's a grand possibility, and it'd be kinda neat to see something like it. Draconology is cool.

I've got to say, the notion that Andraste was a vessel for Mythal is quite brilliant. Methinks the Chantry is in for another big shakeup. lol

I just wish they keep using this two old legends to keep story interesting Both of them are leaders to there people

I'm still hard in the "Andraste is actually a mage and the Maker is a demon" camp. I remember in the gauntlet someone mentioned they fought with flood, and while crop burning is something I can see as just being lighting them on fire with flint floods seems like magic. Maferath, in my opinion, betrayed her because he saw that she was treading closer and closer to an abomination and thus could no longer follow her.

I don't think Andraste was Mythal. It wouldn't make sense for her to spread worship of the maker. I think they just built over Mythal's place of worship.

Or it could be that Andraste was host to one of the Old God souls, like Kieran, and the ashes were kinda like the Well of Sorrows. Had to be kept safe or that soul/key would be lost.

Certain stories in the Chant makes me think the Maker is Solas. I wonder how much he hates the maker getting credit for his deeds, like the veil.

Andraste was an OGB just like Keiran

What if that mural isn't supposed to be Mythal? What if it's supposed to be Shartan? Although it looks like Mythal, but what if? I mean some probably honored him.

Harvard 100% did not know, this doesn't mean mutual didn't lead him there, only that, like with the dread Wolf, he was never made aware of why the location was chosen.

I like this! Flemythal only had daughters, Andrastre only had daughters. This is an interesting parallel, especially considering that the line of Andraste/Vivial grew and scattered. Was Morrigan born from Flemeth, and the relationship is one of true maternity, or was she a foundling or stolen? Was she both, of the line of Andraste but stolen?I think if we learn who her parents/father was we'll get a good piece of the puzzle. I think it is astoundingly perceptive to make the Temple of Sacred Ashes out to be one of Mythals old temples. I mean really, one guy on the run with nothing to his name built all that in his lifetime? Psssha. And how to make all those traps, and bind those ash spirits without strip-mining the lyrium out of the mountain, or fountains of blood magic? If that was the case the veil'd be as porous as swiss cheese. And all of that is assuming Havard was a mage at all. A problem arises though, in that Mythal has shown many times that she preferred (will only?) to possess female hosts. In the codex it says "Andaste's song" led him to the holy site. Now, lots has been made of the song of lyrium by many different people. The mountain is full of it. You can hear lyrium sing, ala Justice and the ring, if you are possessed by a spirit. One last aside, what about the cult of Andraste the dragon from Origins? Flemythal turned into a dragon. It seems that dragons were the 'holy shape' reserved only for the elven gods. (see the murals on how someone was taught the holy shape and appealed to Mythal for mercy). Did they have anything that'd tie them to the elves? They had an older form of Andrastanism that put men into spiritual roles. Was this a holdover from an old Tevinter presence? They have similar male dominated chantrys. The only way I see that helping this argument is if that practice was appropriated from the elves somehow, but I don't see how the worship of Mythal the Mother would be malecentric. Maybe the architectural styles is a better avenue to pursue. We have the temple of Dirthamen, some shrines to various elven gods, the half Vint/Elf ruin from the Dalish origin, the temple of Mythal, and the Cradle of Sulevin. Why the last one? Cause bound spirits. Protecting an important artifact. That was smuggled away from a war. Eh? Ok, honestly, last aside. If you corrupt the urn, brother Genitivi kills himself after his claims are dismissed?! He is the only good thing the chantry has every produced!

The ashes would make sense since in DA2, Flemeth revives/materializes through the ashes Hawke takes with them.

I had a thought that Andratste was an old god baby, because she was born nearly a year after the end of the First Blight. Seemed legit >_>

one thing iv noticed about flemeth is she dosent fight at all she has others do it for her sounds more likely she knew andraste maybe givin her some advice like she does with all heros

Hey Ashe, I was just playing the game again, and I noticed something now that I had not before and you did not seem to have mentioned it or anyone else so I think I might mention it. When I was in Crestwood, and in the Wyvern Lair in the cave, we all have noticed the elvhen statues and the like in it. but now I took a good look on one of the cave paintings, there is three of them in there. One depicts elvhen riding Halla´s, but then there is one with a Black figure in a some sort of helmet that looks kinda like a Grey Wardens winged helmet, and it is surrounded elvhen who hold their hands against their heads in agony, and then the next one after that show elvhen in chains that walk in a line. I know a few other then me have the theory that the creator´s are actually great Dragons, but this one figure does not seem to relate to any of the depictions of the creators, we also know from Abelas that some kind of Elvhen civil war started after Mythal was murdered. Some others then me have also the theory that the the Old gods is the other 7 Creator´s too. So here is my Theory, what if this shadowy figure was the Forgotten one(I think it might have been only one, the Ones might have been from a translation mistake) I do not know who it is, but this creature might have gone through some changes that had made it stronger. I think it changed itself because it created the blight, and the Black City was actually it´s prison and not it´s seat of power. This creature then planned for Mythal´s murder for many years and got the power of the taint spread to elvhen, and because of it they where it´s servants(Abelas and his fellow servants of Mythal did not know of this because they where pretty isolated before the Civil war started), it then had Mythal murdered and then send the infected elvhen servants of it to attack, the taint spread and the rest of the creator´s(except for Fen`Harel) tried to protect and keep order among their people, but it gave the Forgotten one a chance to strike them down and seal them away one by one(And since Fen`Harel was not present during their time of need, they thought he was responsible for it all). And as the elvhen fought against each other, the forgotten one started the next stage of it´s plan and turned it´s attention to the Humans. The creator´s had actually made contact with the humans and tried to make them become their followers too, so that neither humans nor elvhen did need to fight, but the forgotten one pretended to be Dumat(or Elgar`Nan) then told them about the magic that can easily corrupt minds, and the humans who had not been used to magic, got power mad from this unstable magic form, and the Forgotten one gave them the order to attack the Elvhen. The Civil war between elvhen had just ended, and the tainted elvhen had been slain, but the taint had weakened the elvhens eternal life and even after using much healing magic, their eternal life span was still lost because of it. And then humans attack came, and after having just fought a civil war, the elvhen had not chance to make magic wards or gather their army in time to counter it. After that, the Forgotten one might have been searching for Fen´Harel or Mythal´s spirit for a millenia and only spoke to it´s Tevinter servants a few times, but after failing to find either the dread wolf or Mythal´s spirit, it went back to another plan of it´s. The Forgotten told his Tevinter servants to go into the fade and to the black city where it knew this magisters would be infected by the full power of the taint and not like the weaker curable form the elvhen had gotten from it a millenia ago. And as it had planned, they spread the taint and threw the world into chaos, but then they unexpected happened when the Grey Wardens came and killed the corrupted Creator Dumat/Elgar`Nan(I bet that Fen`Harel or Mythal had a finger in telling them how to do the joining ritual). But the Forgotten one did not give up, he made the remaining Darkspawn hear a song, which was actually from him, since he was telling them where to dig to find the old gods/creators and the corrupt them to become and Archdemon and then the song would come from the Archdemon. The Forgotten one made that work for itself for a bit and then went to manipulate more people to do actions that would weaken the world and try to find Mythal and Fen`Harel. It has been a big cat and mouse game for these three ever since, it would also explain that if the old gods and creators are the same, why Mythal would want a piece of their soul preserved and why Solas sounded like he did not think the darkspawn would die out when they kill all old gods, and why he was so angry over the fact that the wardens was trying to dig up a kill the old gods that had not been corrupted by the taint yet. And I also bet that even though Corypheus says he is doing what he does for himself, he might be under the influence of the Forgotten one without knowing it. Though this is all an theory, but I still bet that that black Figure in the cave painting has something to do with the downfall of the elvhen empire

I thought it was stated in the first game that Flemeth's origin story happened before the chantry. If that is true then Flemeth was already fused with Mythal, before Andrasta was touched by the Maker.

I think Andraste is Mythal sister (or some family relation) and the whole Dragon age game series is Mythal attempt to bring Andraste back from the dead

My comment was featured! Thank you. :)

I'm absolutely loving your theories. Not sure whether you've already talked about it but do you have a theory on Red Lyrium? We know it's alive (which was the creepiest relevation) but i'm sure there's more to it. Would love to hear your (or other fans', you guys are awesome) thoughts on it

your voice is so calming!

Maybe she spread the believe of the maker so that he would cover Mythals acts of revenge up so nobody would suspect her return. Using the the believers and all of the church's facilities as decoys or pawns to finally exact revenge.

I am convinced that Mythal and Andraste are one in the same. I also think that the old gods or tivinter are also the elven gods given new form and name. We know Mythal can transform into a dragon (which the old gods where) so why not the other ones?

The cult occupying the temple in DA:O, worshipped a dragon they thought was Andraste. Perhaps they were on to something.

What I think: The Maker never existed, but the elven gods did but were not literally gods, like the old gods from DAO. I think Andraste could be what Flemeth is. Mythal is a powerful spirit, that became one with Flemeth. Solas, well could be the same but with the soul of the dread wolf, or was always just the dread wolf. But what I think is Andraste was also host to a powerful spirit, but not Mythal.

So Mythal and the Temple of Andraste are bound together. There already is a theory inside the game that Andraste could be a mage. Also she was married with the maker, who is in Fact Solas. Looking at the interaction of Solas and Flemeth at the end of the story, could there even be a deeper connection between Mythal and Andraste? The same kind as with Flemeth now? Then it would explain why Flemeth likes to stay "in the shadows" and just uses riddles to help you. Mythal doesn't want to lead a faction again and get her body killed in the end.

There is many similarities, i do wonder if Mythal could be part of the reason behind Andraste's bloodline only having daughters. We have never heard of a male Witch of the wilds, only Flemeth and her daughters so there could be a connection there. Of course there Kieran messing that up but he is a oddity in general.

Your video got me thinking about DAO and the temple that the dalish warden visits in the very beginning of the game. Not sure if it was already mentioned it, but Tamlen points out a statue that looks similar to the winged woman-ish statue I found in Mythal's temple at a staircase in Inquisition. It makes me more inclined to believe this theory about Mythal and Andraste, although I'm wondering how closely Flemeth is tied to the blight. The temple in DAO had the tainted eluvian after all. Perhaps the ones who murdered Mythal were the magisters who first entered the fade? Or maybe something else tainted the eluvian later after the temple fell into ruin.

I believe that Andraste was a woman who lived a long time ago and then died. Is it possible that she was possessed by a Spirit of Faith or perhaps by some sort of Trickster spirit? Sure. People do get possessed sometimes. I think that the Temple of Andraste was special because of the lyrium, and that this may explain why her ashes were imbued with power. Perhaps that would have also been explained if someone burned a Faith Abomination to death.

This theory makes a lot sense

Mind blown lol ash you have a great eye for detail I didn't even notice that sigil in the last fight.

ever sense about DA2 i suspected flemeth and andraste where the same with the revelation that flemeth is housing mythal and elvan "god" just makes me believe it even more

I believe Oghren mentions noticing lyrium in the temple if you take him inside with you in DA:0, but I don't think it was red lyrium yet. The red stuff seems to spread and grow a lot faster than the blue kind so if it was there it wouldn't be hidden. As for the Andraste is Mythal idea, I suppose it's possible. Though didn't Flemeth say she was around before Andraste? I guess she could have meant the part of her that is Mythal, kind of like the Avatar cycle thing in The last Air Bender and Legend of Korra. Though, I then have to wonder why Andraste would go out of her way to fight against the Tevinter Imperium. Also, I wonder why she would start up the worship of the Maker while doing so. Seems like she could have just had them worship her if she wanted to use faith as a weapon/motivator. Honestly, it all just doesn't sound like Flemeth to go out of her way to do all that. Even when she has helped heros before it's been mostly by pointing them in the right direction. I quess you could say maybe when she was Andraste she did believe in the Maker, but lost faith when her husband betrayed her and she died, but that seems a bit far fetched. What seems more likely is that Spirits of Faith were helping out Andraste and her disciples. I mean we also saw Andraste's Mom in her temple so if she had some visions about her kid too, so maybe some Spirits saw the potential of what Andraste could be like with Wynne and her Faith spirit. Mythal dose seem to kind of act like a spirit and as we saw in Awakening (and recently in DA:I with the Divine) mortals can end up as spirits/demons. But that doesn't seem to tell us much yet. I wouldn't be surprised if Flemeth/Mythal had something to do with Andraste's rise to power (like with the Hero, Hawke, and the Inquisitor to an extent), but I'm not sold on the idea that she actually was her. Could be, but unlikely.

I have heard theories that Andraste is the host for the soul of the old god Dumat, something about her being born the year the first blight ended. But this leads me to thinking of the relation between the old gods and the elven pantheon and why Solas seemed so angry/distraught at the grey wardens plan to kill the remaining old gods in their sleep. Which leads me to wonder do we actually know the names and stories of the wardens who died slaying the previous 4 archdemons and the likely hood of the dark ritual being used in the past. Also a little more food for thought would the red lyrium idol in the primeval thaig predate the magisters of old physically entering the fade?

Yeah, I had the same thought when I found out who Flemeth was, it would explain a lot about Andraste. But I am more curious about who Mythal want revenge against, it is some unknown person or a very secretive person, it can not be the other creators, since they have fallen and I believe the theory that they might be the Old Gods. So who is Mythals revenge against then? We can not deny the fact that there is also an unknown person that(Spoilers for "The Masked Empire") killed Felaassan, which I found mysterious, we know it is not Leliana, that it was not Venetori, or that it was not Ben-Hassrath. Cuz Leliana would not need to question Michel about the Eluvians, if it was the Venetori. they would have tried to capture Brialla and get access to the Eluvians, and the Ben-Hassrath do not want anything to do with magic. In any case, the person who Mythal´s revenge is against, is some one very powerful and old like her, and to elude the notice of anyone for so long, it might be someone more dangerous then Corypheus. And also a fun fact, the so called "Maker" that Andraste was speaking of, was probably either Elga`Nan or Mythal herself, so that means the Chantry has been praying to an elvhen god

Great theory. A few questions 1. If Mythal = Andraste why lead armies against an Imperium weakened by Blight? 2. Since Andraste was killed before Minrauthus could be conquered, why did Flemeth never take any future steps against Tevis ter 3. The Dalish elves are trying to maintain the memory of the Dales. If Solas = Shartan then why does he not like them?

Could the Hero of Ferelden have been the protagonist in DA:I? After completing the game I can't help but feel that the warden would have been a more suitable than "What's going on here?". I know this has nothing to do with the topic of the video, but with no close friends playing DA:I, I needed to get another opinion on the subject.

I'm still wondering what flemeth put into the eluvian as solas arrived. My opinion i don't think that we've seen the last of her

I'm overthinking that elven gods all were keeping dragons at their side just as Cory did, thus made them immortal and impenetrable. Some elven gods indeed had ambitions and might have intentions to rule over other races, but these races, especially humans could not accept worshipping them. So they send their dragons as their representative and had these highly intelligent creatures teach them magic for their own ends. These dragons became Old Gods. Legends said that ancient elves were immortal, but according to Abelas, Mythal's servants passed their knowledge to the Well of Sorrows when their end of year came. So at least these ancient elves were not actually immortal. My suspicion is this: elven godhood can be passed on to another ancient elve, a WILLING VESSEL (which give you the idea that who drinks from the Well of Sorrow is a kind of Mythal's vessel, or an Archdemon needs to pass its soul to a darkspawn, also a willing vessel, so it can not be killed.) Some ancient elves willingly beared their gods' valaslin in order to competing for godhood and power. After elven gods disappeared (or maybe locked away on the other side of an eluvian), they wared among themselves for godhood with no success, destroyed Arlathan in the process. In fact, I'm overthinking that Orb Cory carries was not actually Fen'Harel's, it was Mythal's. Fen'Harel was just safekeeping it. It makes more sense that Cory cried for Dumat's help because he believes it contains Dumat's power. And Dumat has connections with Mythal, I mean, maybe Dumat is Mythal's pet dragon or something :P

I came to this conclusion after Dragon Age 2. I didn't know how or why, but something felt off about flemeth. After all she could turn into a Fucking Dragon seriously Morgan You Are Holding out on us. But what I found odd was how the High Dragon was "Guarding the Tomb of Sacred Ashes". It just sits up there, like it's waiting when it could so easily strike at you. I mean you and 4 people should be easy prey for a High Dragon(also it is one of the hardest Vanilla fights in the game). Now odds of a high dragon nesting there aside this could be a likely tie in that Mythal Controls High Dragons quite easily as seen in DAI she has one bound to her service. So what this High Dragon could have been was another servant of Mythal Guarding the Tomb of her previous host. Which would also explain why so many of Haven where convinced she was andraste. The structure of the Temple seems very Elven in origin, between the various spirits that host and provide trials to the mysterious magic. I know this is as a result of the fade but as we all know elven magic is directly linked to the fade. From solus, to the spirit of the forest, to the Tomb for that matter it seems elves and denizens of the fade go two in two with their magic. Even Arcane Warrior is a direct link to the fade, so is it that far fetched that all this fade magic could have been as a result of Mythal. Andraste was also an elf, and that is no small thing to understand as Mythal was an Elven god(sort of). But she is like a protective mother where Fenharel is a fierce liberator. So it might have been that the Register invasion if the black city was where the elvenahn were sealed, upon breaching it set off one of Solas protections(pure speculation) and released in the process. Where she would have found the elves in such a state as they are now and seek to liberate them. This aslo ties in to how Andraste was the makers chosen, if Mythal was with Andraste the amount of magic she could be capable of would certainly god like. So based off all my speculation it really seems to fit both the charcter of Mythal as well as the lore as we know it. I mean Ashes have no magical properties to them, but if you kill a possessed mage they tend to drop some magical item. So it's possible that the reason Andrastes ashes are so powerful is due to the left over magic of Mythal, which also explain why it is so heavily guarded. Elven magic is powerful enough to breach the veil, and strong enough to destroy entire civilizations, what do those ashes got in the wrong hands...the dark down magistrate hands.

built on top. maybe lyrium is part of an elven god?

I missed the chance to comment on the last one so, sorry about that. I'll write my thoughts here. Sorry if that's super tacky. Anyway, my headcanon is that the Black City is Arlathan. Given that the elves of Elvhenan were able to make sophisticated, permanent structures in the form of the Eluvian network; I think it's fair to say that, if sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable for magic, sufficiently advanced magic should be able to account for the attributes of the Black City. It's permanence stems from the fact that it is from the physical world. Tevinter accounts of the fall of Arlathan relate a massive army which left nothing but a smoldering crater. I submit that this is revisionism. Arlathan's citizens saw the encroaching army and escaped by the only route available, into the Fade. Not wanting to admit to finding nothing where Arlathan was, the magisters reported that they had destroyed the city. As human culture on Thedas was in its infancy, alternate accounts as well as records of the Black City's apperance can be explained away. Fast forward a few centuries to the mages trying to enter the city. By this time, prolonged exposure to the Fade has changed the elves in incomprehensible ways and when their city is violated, apparently by the same beings who first forced them from the mortal world, they unleash their weapon of last resort, corrupting the blood and placing them under a gaes in the manner you mentioned in your video. Well, that's my headcanon until BioWare proves me wrong. Fen'Harel Enansal!

OH MY GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD!!

im supposed to be filling out a job application but im watching this instead :')

Interesting considering flemeth is verry cunning and everything is possible because she has came back from the dead using Mythals temple on sunder mount so yeah I think the maker does not exist and it is just her plan what ever it is

what about the maker? :p i remeber he fought tevinter with a flaming sword together with andraste... my guess is still on sandal lol praise sandal

I put my trust in the stone and everyone can go SODDING OFF

I played through dragon age origins and reached the temple you speak of in the vid. Lelianna does something odd that I haven't noticed before she seems to glance over her shoulder toward a mirror held by an Andraste statue. The camera sweeps quickly to and stops for moment and kind of zooms in on it. This happens quickly. I asked my daughter to come in as I replayed it. This was odd. Afterwards you walk up a bit and encounter the sentinel that talks to you about the trials you have to go through. I even returned to check out this statue but nothing. It's odd that I never noticed it before. I played this on Xbox 360. I've never played it on computer I am wondering if this scene plays differently on computer and if playing on the console I've missed out on something important.

Not too sure about Andraste being Flemeth. If that were true I'm pretty sure she would play that card a lot considering its the main religion. Plus if she was Mythal why spread the word of the Maker? Still the part where the Old Gods might be the Elven creators isn't so far fetched. In DA2 Merrill knew a little about Flemeth and considering she could turn into a dragon that theory would make a lot of sense. As for the Temple maybe that follower was led by a spirit, maybe it was Solas. But I believe that Andraste's temple was built over Mythal's. Even the Guardian's sole purpose was to protect Andraste and honor the Maker.

What did happen to the Urn of Sacred Ashes? They just disappeared...

I think Mythal also being Andraste is putting too much on one character and her motivation for surviving seems to be revenge why would she join with Andraste? Until there's more to support the theory I'll stick with the idea that Andraste was the first OGB carrying the soul of Dumat and Flemeth is Andraste's descendant. The Temple of Sacred Ashes like Skyhold is probably built on top of elven ruins.

2:46 non english speaker here trying to do a simultaneous interpretation for homewoek and I don't know what she's saying here, the meaning that is. Help me plz

How the FUCK did I miss that THAT?! How in the hell did I not notice the mural?!

I think it is more likely that the Andrastians merely repurposed an ancient temple of Mythal, just like early Christians repurposed the temples of the Greeks and Romans. Another exampleis the history of Skyhold revealed by Morrigan.

I agree more with geek remix's theory that andraste had a dragon soul in a slimier why to moragan's son the time of ther birth and dumats death are the same and she had all the same issues as moragan's son such has being plagued with bad dreams and seeming to become a different person from time to time

It already being built makes more sense.

It might be that they just built the temple over ruins of an ancient temple of Mythal

I'm with you on the temple bit but really every person in andraste legend is and was a vessel for some elven God is disappointing I like the idea of two religions in opposition. I believe that the temple was a secret place known to few elves

Could we see the return of Griffons Ashe (taken from the dragon age wiki btw) "Isseya realizes that there is no way to save the living Griffons but realizes there may be a way to protect a future generation of them. Isseya travels to Starkhaven and convinces Amadis Vael to give her the clutch of eggs her Griffon has bore so she may purify them of the taint. Amadis eventually relents but not before informing Isseya that it was the blight which was the cause of the tragedy which befell the griffons. After peacefully ending the life of Amadis' griffon, Isseya purifies her clutch of Eggs by taking the taint into herself through prodigious use of blood magic. Convinced that the current generation of Wardens have failed the griffons and to ensure there is no chance the hatch-lings are exposed to the taint, Isseya conceals the eggs in a form of arcane suspended animation in a Drake cave in the Anderfels. She then leaves a series of clues hidden in various records at Weisshaupt which only an elven mage would be able to decipher, to ensure that anyone who would awaken the Griffons would understand the precious cost of freedom. Her duties complete, Isseya departs on her griffon for one last flight before her Calling."

The maker seems real to me because corypheus was a living breathing ancient magister that went to the golden city. I don't believe that the maker was a demon, what demon would he be. An extremist demon. He would at Lear be a spirit.

That would acount for her kinship with the elves. But y would she seaport a false god whin she was a God herself herself.

Do you have any Theory on the next dragon age

You are over thinking it due to timeline suggestions from Flemeth herself that she is older than the Andrastian faith, I believe the Tervintar Imperium has the truth of it, Andraste was a very powerful mage.

Wrong. The codex says Havard was led to a holy site where he built the Temple of Sacred Ashes. If anything it shows that Andraste led Havard to an old temple of Mythal's so that he could build over the top of it. Thus conquering the false elven goddess' holy site. Also, the ashes cured him, not Mythal. The ashes did the same for Eamon, again, not Mythal. The red lyrium did not exist there until Corypheus. In any case, your theory doesn't explain how Mythal's soul got from Havard to Flemeth in Highever. And there was no place in the temple where Mythal's spirit could be preserved as it was in the Temple of Mythal in DA:I.

Hi Lady Ahse i don't understand the whole dreadwolf solas thing?

It's a conspiracy of Havard!!!

i like this one. i just don't like the idea of flemeth being Andraste, it to much of a covenant to me. rather i think she was a follower of Mythal like the herald or morrigan who drank from the well and that Mythal told Havard told him to take ashes their cause she had done enough

No no there is higher power than all of these arrogant elves! There should be!

I would like to disagree; I still think that Andraste wasn't Mythal; and that the Maker is real. Mythal being Andraste is unlikely given the fact that she (Mythal) prefers not to be so "directly" involved in mortal affairs. Its more like Mythal; (in her pre-Flemuth form); to simply "nudge" Andraste just like she has "encouraged" other heroes (Warden; Hawke; and other heroes thorough the years) into starting her rebellion. Mythal could have told Andraste about the Temple's location; just as Solas told the Inquisitor about Skyhold. Andraste's visions of the Maker could have been the reason Mythal was drawn to her in the first place. I believe the Maker she saw was real; the elven pantheon even refers to the Maker indirectly in their creation mythos:- "Long ago, when time itself was young, the only things in existence were the sun and the land. The sun, curious about the land, bowed his head close to her body, and Elgar'nan was born in the place where they touched. As a gift to Elgar'nan, the land brought forth great birds and beasts of sky and forest, and all manner of wonderful green things." - codex entry for Elgar'nan: God of Vengeance The "Sun" mentioned here is most likely the Maker (or something that serves the Maker); note that the Chantry's symbol for the Maker or their faith is the "Sun". Furthermore; the Sun can be seen in the Fade during "Here Lies the Abyss" quest line.

Andraste approves

Personally, I think Andraste was a host of Dumat.

I destroyed the ashes with the "Andraste" dragon blood. Does not Matter what it was :P

Just a hint: If the spoiler is right in the first sentence and thus even visible in the video overview, the spoiler-warning is nearly useless. One, maybe two blank lines would probably do the trick. Thanks you.

Shit, these videos are amazing

I just wish I knew what was real and what's fake in the lore