Really cool transition at 12:24. From talking about Sprewell to Marbury but showing him defending the other. I just want to tell the person who edits this videos that we appreciate small stuff like that.

Wouldn’t be 2015 Warriors be the last pure title? Green, Curry and Thompson were all drafted by GSW.

“The last pure title is the spurs” “Only steph curry doesn’t jump teams” so are the gsw a pure title or not (they won without durant)

"I'm pretty sure that choking your coach it's an effective way to demand a trade" 🤔

He forgot his hero...Larry Bird refused to join the Celtics unless he got his bag. You know why the Bird Rule came to be

Yall remember when Bill Simmons demanded a trade from ESPN

When will the media take responsibility for what the sports especially the nba has turned into? With the 24/7 sports shows,radio, and podcast all focused on rings and free agency. Their need for content is a huge problem looking for the smallest things to talk about on there shows; all first take and undisputed talks about is why Lebron is not Jordan because Jordan has 6 rings and other players look at this and say hey I don’t want to be like Malone or Barkley and every time my name is brought up its always I don’t have a ring and not I was a great player who held down a franchise even players today like dame and melo it’s always they never won anything; so they can’t have it both ways where they judge players only by how many rings they have but also wants players to stay with the franchise that drafted them but if the team that drafted them has a bad front office the story would be how they underachieved and not how bad the front office was; imagine if lebron stayed in Cleveland his whole career and only won one or two titles I promise u they would say he underachieved and I’m not for all this player movement but I understand if I’m not going lose I’m going to lose my way and not relying on the front office

"The fear for me is that we're gonna turn into this league where everybody wants to go to the same 7 teams and the competitive balance is shot and we don't get to actually root for the arc of a team." As someone who has followed fútbol my whole life, well, now you know why it's common for people outside the U.S. to note the irony of how U.S. sports are (save for the "franchise" of it all) organized in this equality-minded, almost anti-capitalist way. Present-day football is exactly what you described, everybody wants to play for that handful of billionaire teams because a largely corrupt organization (FIFA) has allowed them to exist unchecked in that way for so long. Harden's situation is very, very analogous to Philippe Coutinho's recent move from Liverpool to Barcelona, where he faked a back injury to accelerate a transfer. Not coincidentally the more meatheaded football fans are "Messi fans" and "Cristiano Ronaldo fans", the endpoint Bill suggests in the video... and already a thing in the NBA. What we're seeing now in basketball is just a generation of athletes smart enough to realize they can leverage their talent in a poorly regulated market. The result is that rich teams and strong brands remain rich teams and strong brands. Murderer's Row Yankees type of stuff. Loyalty, community, etc have never had anything to do with it. "It's 2k"? Nah, just neoliberalism applied to sports. I wonder which sleeper NBA market will be acquired by Qatar Investment Authority first.

i’d never seen that clip of steve francis tearing up when he got drafted. that’s hilarious

That pic of Harden in the club with the gaudy green shirt is meme food.

Last “pure” title, if we’re going from the basis that this means a team built around players drafted to the franchise, is the 15’ Warriors.

Bill Bradley, Larry Bird type. Translation: he’s white. Lol.

I like how Bill adds Lebron to this list even though he was smart enough to not sign long term contracts to give himself leverage and he never asked to be traded.

Jimmy wasn't unhappy in Chicago; he wanted to stay with us but we chose to trade him to rebuild.

Spurs fans still boo Kawhi mercilessly.

“Clippers jumped in last second” weird way of saying the league literally vetoed the trade for “basketball reasons” Bill.

When Pat Riley hit a rough patch with the Knicks he left for Miami. When Bill Simmons hit a rough patch with Grantland he left to start The Ringer. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander.

Well put, Bill. It’s aggravating also that the “hot take” idiots on TV provoke it, by criticizing every player like if they haven’t won big by 24 they should look to be traded.

john elway was a thing before danny ferry and eli manning

It’s Heart Breaking how bad I hate the NBA these days

Wilt did the same thing on warriors. He made the finals lost to Boston then the next season they only get 17 wins. Then he forces a trade to sixers and his old coach of warriors follows. Then he beats warriors, his old team in 67 finals

Thank you mentioning how special 2011 was. Dirk became a ligitimized legend when they won it, immediately flying up the all time lists...and that's just one of dozens of aspects that made this my favorite title ever won

I don't think the players have any obligation to fans, Bill. We don't give a shit about them once they can't perform at the highest level so why should they be expected to put us as their professional priority. Don't mean to say this is ideal but stop it with the "But, what about the children?!" narrative.

It's all of massive pressure by the media to win titles.

The irony is that everything truly shifted when Lebron went to Miami. That team took all the hate of the fanbase for players deciding where to play, and then KD afterwards, and players choosing their destinations and getting support was inevitable because it gets rewarded with titles when done right. And you can blame Lebron, but imagine if Dan Gilbert had been a good owner. Just because Jordan won titles with a bad owner doesn't mean things were balanced. This is the time of the entrepreneur. This is the time where Bill Simmons talks about the top 100 greatest players of all time and number of titles is a big factor. It isn't surprising that NBA players feel that pressure. No one wants to be Charles Barkley and get made fun of by players with championships. A player isn't "all time" till they get a ring. Imagine if KG hadn't gotten injured in '09. The Celtics would probably have won at least 1 of the next 2 titles and Kobe may still be stuck at 3 rings and Shaq could have kept asking how his a** tastes. KG and Pierce could have had 3 each and been remembered for it. There's nothing to be afraid of for where this is heading. This is actually the most balanced that the league could be. Until the next CBA anyway

Bill: "Harden's going to force a trade, either to Brooklyn or Philly" Harden: "Por que no los dos?"

This definition of "pure title" don't make any sense.

Imagine that: players looking at teams the same way teams look at players.

New York Knicks: Getting in their own way since 1975

is there a correlation to unhappy nba superstars and bad ownders? Harden -> Fertita, durant -> okc owner (didn't want to spend), james -> (dan gilbert), ... Maybe the players just want to play in a nice city, with good ownership who want to spend money.

Being a Pacer fan, I can confirm Paul George gets booed relentlessly every time he enters bankers life fieldhouse

Nuggets have a chance to have the next organic championship

21:39 The owners did this to themselves multiple ways. They demanded shorter contracts and got it. But they also demanded a hard cap and player max ceilings. What you have is a situation where big stars like Lebron can't possibly make their real value. If you're a star, and you can only make the same amount of money in about 12 places, stars feel like they might as well get the spot where they can get a title. Giannis will be denigrated if he doesn't at least reach the finals, and the Bucks can't pay him substantially more than other teams, so why stay? Michael Jordan never wanted to leave the Bulls because they could pay him $36 million to stay (at a time when the whole team cap was only about $35M), whereas no team could have paid him half that as a free agent if he'd left. Teams can't do that with their resident stars anymore because of the rules they themselves demanded.

Totally blew it by not including Rick Barry. The most disgruntled superstar. Left him off because he was so disgruntled so many times in so many directions it would take a whole show?

The warriors first championship was a pure title. All of those players were drafted.

I actually think you can make a case that the Lakers won the Shaq trade more than Miami. The Lakers got Odom, who was the 3rd or 4th best player on two championships with the Lakers. They also got Caron Butler, who they traded to the Wizards for Kwame Brown, which sounds terrible but they traded Kwame Brown for Pau Gasol, who was the 2nd best player on those 2 championships and was the reason the Lakers won a game 7.

I like how Bill glazed over the Jason Kidd trade. He won a title after that.

Vince Carter never hated Toronto, you and Ryan have mentioned this quite a few times now and it's completely false. VC was just fed up with the entire Raptors organization from their front office to incompetent medical staff. I don't blame him for wanting out of here at that time. The best player Glen Grunwald could pair him with was Antonio freakin' Davis. And our medical staff back them nearly ruined him by rushing him back a few times.

I actually blame the Celtics on this one. Pierce should have been a Celtics lifer, but they traded him in possibly the most one-sided deal of all time. It doesn't get any hate because it was a good trade, but players are realizing their team might not have their back when they get older. Fast forward to 2017 IT plays his heart out for the Cs, drops 29 ppg, gets his team to the first seed, has more points than anyone in the 4th, but gets injured. The Celtics drop him at a moments notice. Players around the league are scared. They see the trade and think, "If I'm loyal, the second I get injured, it's over, I'm gone. My team's not going to look out for me, so I have to." That's is a large part of the reason Davis is on the Lakers. It sucks for the fans caught in the middle (I know, I'm a Rockets Fan, and Westbrook was my favorite player on the team.), but loyalty is a two-way street. When teams aren't loyal, how fair is it to expect players to be? And that's not a rhetorical question, I am genuinely asking.

Back in the day the players needed the NBA and their respective organizations. Now the NBA needs the players

Amazing content from Bill. I wish he could create a catalog for work like this that has a obviously amount of research’s and care.

It is hilarious that Bill threw the Celtics into the list of desirable teams. It is pretty obvious that the Top 6 are Lakers, Clippers, Heat, Warriors, Mavs, and whichever NYC team is competitive. Guys grow up in Chicago and Atlanta, so those places can recruit those guys. Boston has to be near the bottom of the list.

Harden and Kyrie the spoiled children of the NBA and Adam Silver is the lenient parent who never knows when to say 'no'

This is why Damian Lillard has become my favorite athlete in all of sports, bar none (aside from every single individual on our beloved New England Patriots, of course). Dame DOLLA now feels like the contrarian of this era. Invincibly loyal to his teammates at the Portland Trail Blazers, invincibly loyal to the city of Portland, invincibly loyal to the city he grew up in back in Oakland. Dame is enduring the ups and downs of the challenges in competing for a title. Personally, I just am so motivated by his approach.

Great piece, as a sixers fan I’m on an island where I don’t want harden especially with 2yrs left and I’m a huge Simmons fan and when chuck left for the suns, a ton of fans seem to forget how he screwed the team because he couldn’t take criticism in the media, and now he’s in the media criticizing 👀

The issue is championships define everything. Legacy defines every star player. We rank everything, we debate everything, there are people out there that literally believe that Draymond is better than Barkley simply because he has more rings. Most of these players do not want the ridicule of being without a championship...why can’t we enjoy these player’s greatness

I agree with almost everything you say. I would also say the modern era of "player empowerment" you're speaking of is also partially the result of teams aggressively leaning into tanking. It's always occurred to a degree, but when the Sixers went with "The Process" and it emerged from the shadows, it became an organizational strategy, sometimes at the expense of a star's prime. Now you're going to win in the next two to three years, or blow it up.

"I would like to say that choking your coach is a pretty effective way to get traded" LMAO

great video...very informative!

How do you not count the first GSW championship as a "pure title"? I understand not counting the two with Durant, but that first one has to be thought as one.

That's why I like Tim Duncan and Dirk Nowitzki more and more. Players today don't even try their best to win games, they try to get on the best team.

Man, bill is perfect analysing nba that i dont even care hes a boston fan, what a great content, only a guy who loves the game could pull that off

Kobe almost being a Piston is insane too. As a Pistons fan would have definitely loved it. The 07-08 Pistons won 59 games and went to the Eastern Conference Finals and took the Celtics to 6 as they were. But Kobe with Chauncey, Rasheed, Tayshaun and McDyess. Gotta think they win that title or have a really good shot. But of course Dr. Buss being a great owner, its no surprise they kept him.

how were the 2015 warriors not pure?

Loved this. Fascinating. This deserves a book of its own!

The problem is that Owners can trade players whenever they want. They do what’s in their best interest always, so can’t be mad at players for choosing to do the same. It’s just players like Durant and now Harden have taken this “freedom” to an extreme.

people can follow players careers much easier now because of the internet and nba streaming... back in the day you only had national games, and local ... many things have changed

Francis and Mobley for McGrady was actually a super fair trade. Steve Francis was a badass but that year was the year he fell off. I believe his first season in Orlando was actually pretty good.

Great vid. The balance has shifted the other way. I also thing it's the teams that caused the cynicism to develop. When Derozan learns he's being traded by his 9-year-long team via the news, it's the team that signals "loyalty is dead". Now the players are giving it back to them.

If the Celtics landed AD in a trade instead of the Lakers I wonder if Bill would still be doing this segment.

This is why Bill is the GOAT to me. He has the experience and the chops from his journalism days, and loves to bring up historical context, especially in relevant stories.

I'd say a big part of why fans don't care as much anymore is your own team and Danny Ange. You fucked over Isaiah Thomas badly. He played his heart out for you in the playoffs even while injured to try to get you a title and you toss him aside like a dog. That singular decision contributed greatly to fan apathy with regard to "loyalty" among players and teams. Teams clearly aren't loyal to players, so why should players be loyal to teams? It's easily to relate to a single player who more than likely came from poverty than it is to relate to a corporate machine like a franchise.

Kareem also benefited from the lakers stockpiling 4s macadoo mo lucas rambis worthy green landsberger etc. (taking advantage of free agency picks as trade bait) who could protect his slight frame.

The sourness Bill displays when referring to my Lakers makes my day lmao

What's also changed are the owners and the fans. Billionaire owners think differently and pricey season tickets are going to lose you relationships folks had with teams

So was oscar Robertson rick barry gus Williams etc juwan howard. Some of them improved the league . Increased the wage, got free agency, while the league has sometimes eroded fan loyalty by making players rotisserie dizzy trading them on whims that dont provide the stability upon which bonds and championships are built in team cohesion. In defense of wilt he wanted to stay in philly his hometown and was falsely promised a management stake which was reneged on . So theres plenty of blame to go around . It's easy to focus on the superstars who have some leverage but the league has to share the blame because they like trade buzz and encourage this small market instability that among the great franchises only the spurs have bucked.

Great content!!

Bill is absolutely right about the animosity from the fans being less than it was 20 years ago. I'll never forget this past season in DC I got shocked looks from fellow wizards fans in wizards jerseys for booing Giannis during player intros. Like I should be able to boo a guy who has no relation to me or my native city and is about to brutally destroy my favorite team.

I loved that 93 suns team!

One of the lowkey interesting parts about pro sports is resource management. Did this team draft well? Does it maneuver around the salary cap correctly? Did it win this trade? Etc. This player empowerment movement, first of all, should be called "superstar empowerment," since it's basically the 30 franchises succumbing to the whims of the league's top 10 or so stars, and then that 30 number gets whittled down to about five or six because the superstars largely don't care about the non-glamour franchises. But just as importantly, superstar empowerment means that one player can absolutely wreck years and years of planning and turn the NBA into one big HS clique. I know Kansas City no longer has an NBA franchise, but say for now they still were the home of the Kings. Can you imagine what kind of extreme events would be required for the would-be KC Kings to win the NBA Finals? Despite its terrible economics system, the MLB saw KC win it all five years ago, and in fact, were only stopped by Madison Bumgarner from winning it twice. And, of course, the Chiefs look like they'll be good for the next few years after winning the last Super Bowl. But the would-be Kings would be screwed until they hit the lotto jackpot, and then would be screwed once superstar empowerment pulled their guy away to LA, NY, etc.

what an unbelievable educational video. I am so impressed with all this info

great breakdown/history!

Love this content. Love love love. Wish you and Jalen could still create. WE MISS GRANTLAND!

25:35 i believe what you are talking about is award winning commentary on the NBA and also slightly on our society. 💯 Great job Bill.

I think the reason we are where we are today is because of the way players are remembered. It’s all about hardware. Nobody thinks of a player and remembers how loyal he was to a franchise or a city. As soon as players realised this, things changed. It make sense to seek acclimation from the whole world over multiple generations than to receive it from one city in one generation.

I'm 2 mins in and already I can smell the anti Rockets anti Harden bias. This isn't his fault it's Fertittas fault. He didn't pay Ariza and let CP3 go. Morey should've been the one calling ALL of the shots and his power diminished with the new owner. Morey didn't want Russ.

I really love listening to this on the podcast and it really made me think about the future of the nba

This new presentation with graphics is great please do more!

"The last pure title" wow...true

This might be one of the most important conversations that the NBA needs to be having. And I think Bill does have a great point that consistency and riding through the natural ups and downs of professional sports is becoming undervalued towards long-term success. But anyone else find his whole speech dripping with a little irony because he jumped from SI to ESPN, had an amazing thing going with Grantland, and then that relationship blew up which caused him to start The Ringer

The media created this and you know it Bill. The media has way too access and power. Lebron was doing it the "right" way, carrying that sorry franchise to the finals. Instead of giving him his respect, the media as a majority treated him like he was over rated. Add the fact that they kept the Delonte West thing from him and yea, he'd be a fool not to leave. Look how they cover Giannis now, it's like, he's great but.... so of course he's going to leave. Dame is the only one being respected so he won't leave

Fantastic video. Thank you!

Fans don't expect "loyalty" out of players anymore because the curtain has been pulled back and we now recognize that teams aren't remotely loyal to their players, either. When IT can do what he did for the Celtics and still get traded, or DeRozan can do what he did for the Raptors and still get traded, or Kemba can do what he did for the Hornets and get low-balled, etc. why should *any* player feel anything remotely resembling loyalty to any team? To a player who knows they'd get traded in a heartbeat if the GM thought the deal was right, what incentive is there to be loyal to a team? The team is going to do whatever they think is best for themselves, so players are going to do whatever they think is best for themselves too.

The King of keeping it in perspective. Well done.

Is there a website for the full videos of the podcasts?

1996 Jason Kidd trade. He didn't ask for a trade to the Sun's. The owner was preparing to sell the team and was shedding contracts. It was a stupid trade. Don Nelson, the later Mavs coach hated the trade . And Jason Kidd voiced the same opinion as a Suns player. Kidd wants to stay in Dallas.

How do you think the other 9 teams felt in the 60s Bill? This is the era for the lakers to surpass once and for all

Thanks for the history lesson

Young fans don't have favorite teams. Players will only go where there are more TV cameras. I see contraction in the NBA future

Still haven't watched a full NBA game since Game 6 of the 98 Finals. The content in this video is exactly why. Please, GM's... take back the league.

I'm glad bill made the distinction between real titles and circumstances

This is gonna backfire so hard they took advantage.

2017 Paul George trade to the Thunder a very weird trade in hindsight. The Pacers got 2 all stars and a nice foundation for their team of the future. The Thunder weren’t able to do anything with George, even though he was an mvp candidate. However, they were able to trade him and Westbrook, for a treasure trove.

What about when a player signs with a team, commits to them for four to five years, and gets traded? Why is that okay? What did loyalty to the Celtics do for I.T.? He played hurt for them in the playoffs, they rode him to the Conference Finals and then traded him. The lack of loyalty goes both ways.

Well said! I loved the historical journey too.

Why even make these moves to get a star to sign a big deal? If they still essentially opt-out by demanding a trade it’s not like signing a long-term deal has any real value or offers any security for the franchise. I think we’ll see teams hesitate to trade future firsts to surround their stars with other players moving forward.

So glad that Bill likened this situation to dating, because I was thinking the same thing. In this culture nowadays, people want the next best thing sooner and sooner. And they get bored very quickly and want to move on. It's all how society has changed in general now bleeding into sports decisions like this.

Bill Simmons is full of it! He was one of the people in the media that pushed player empowerment so hard and now it’s come to a head and he and every other person that supported it are saying it’s come too far? What a joke

Bill saying Danny Ferry wrote the playbook for Eli when it was actually Elway 5 years earlier lol

Can't tell me that Bill Simmons wouldn't have forced a trade out of ESPN when it started going pear shaped, if that was an option. Instead he started his own franchise... maybe that's what Harden should do?