This is just a joke btw, the answer is of course both.

I suppose you'll just have to watch the video again now that you have seen it once

After engaging the content once, I can say with certainty that some fascinating conclusions can be made that interact with my mental-breakdown-focused sensibilities. Once I've had time to reflect, I hope to engage this content again soon so I can see if any more observations can be made, perhaps in the realm of thought-provoking essay work.

Sometimes, the greatest essays begin as mental breakdowns.

Yes

And hyenas are incredibly intelligent, couragous, and strong creatures. Honestly they did both animals hella dirty

Ngl im cool with my cute lil Timon on the Roof flick than a realistic depiction

They even did Lions dirty In nature, Lions aren't this top down hierarchy with the lion at the top and the lionesses and cubs serving him It's more like he's the bodyguard and "elected sex mayor" of the lionesses who fight off other lions to keep the lioness' cubs alive The lionesses will help the lion fight off his rival if they like him, but they'll let him get his ass handed to him on his own if they don't It's a more even relationship between the lionesses and lion(s, sometimes a pride has a couple of lion brothers as the "sex mayors" "elected" by the lionesses) Basically, Lionesses are the regular population that get food and raise kids, while the lion is the guy they call when another lion wants some poon Change is difficult and the lionesses don't want their cubs to die, so the lion goes out If they like him, they'll help, if not, he either wins or loses

​@@cloudypine3683 They occupy a similar niche to lions, so lions and hyenas are constantly competing for the same prey and often lay waste to each other's young

Lets just say Disney doesnt always do their ENTIRE research

Timon is not Jewish the actor who plays him is, as is the actress who played his Mother that's why he has perceived Jewish behaviors. It's the same BS that got George Lucas and the guy who played Jar Jar Binks in trouble. The Actor is Black so the character had black mannerisms, tone of voice, the way he walks. Since you saw an Alien dimwit instead of a Black Jamaican Man with these attributes your neurotic grown up brain with all its hang ups and such couldn't compute this and just saw racism. Rather than the reality of an Actor playing the Comedy relief who just happened to be Black. This is why little Children love Jar Jar but adults hate him, they don't have our hang ups. This is basically what this Woman failed to realize when she made this garbage and we are all dumber for having watched it.

If you listen more than 2 seconds, (and know jews) then you'd see she'S 100% right. but you wanna jump to conclusions and get all offended before actually listening...ok.

@@craigcj5953 Please take your meds

@@craigcj5953Timon's voice actor Nathan Lane is from a Catholic family in New Jersey and then moved to NYC early in his acting career, so I can understand him getting influenced by Jews growing up and that shaping his comedic delivery

I saw the movie translated into my first language, so all the subtext is lost so this is the first time I've heard this interpretation.(⁠ ⁠╹⁠▽⁠╹⁠ ⁠)

They're lions. They arent people at all. The point is anyone can impose themselves on them.

If an argument can be used to mean the exact opposite point then it's an horrible argument

They're animals.

​@@Polychi1998 they are a furry hamlet interpretation

@@Polychi1998 humans are animals.

Existing on KZfaq during Gamergate has taught me that you often can't even talk about the shit neo nazis do these days to sane people who are not aware of their influence cause you end up sounding like a crazy person. It's like talking about declassified CIA docs. It's like the absurdity is part of their tactics to get away with things at times.

​@@KookiesNolly exactly this and i feel like i'm losing my mind. someone had to sit down with the mission to write a parody of we are one with the intention to spread alt right ideals. someone wrote those lyrics, someone sang and recorded said lyrics with the end goal of getting furries on their side. this is a reality we live in when this was done with complete and utter seriousness. if it wasn't properly documented i would be fully convinced it was just pulled from a fake tumblr post but no, it's very real.

@@KookiesNolly What do the real neo nazis do? All I see are glowie larpers who openly operate when it serves to strengthen government control over social issues. Never forget that the leaders of such groups have always been feddies and funded by them.

@@KookiesNolly Have you seen the LGBT community?

@@TeikonGom Have you seen the insides of a shower?

'Its bad when movies have loose analogy to racial heirarchy but its ok when the Jews actually practise racial hierarchy':(Israel). Thats what she was trying to say. "Judaism, promised lands, racial pride, ethnic supremacy, paranoia" and she deliberately ignored the big elephant in her own room.

​@@aintnoslice3422 or, maybe she spent 50 minutes saying exactly what she wanted to? Isreal isn't even fully supported by Jewish people internationally. America for instance supports it primarily because our Evanganical Fundementalists(which is the largest voting block of our extreme conservative party) require its existence so that it can be destroyed at the end of the world, and as their concern isnt on the wellbeing of people, and rather directly wishing for their destruction, the atrocities Israel are responsible for are ignored. ButI'm not willing to extend the responsibility for wrongdoings to people that are tangentially related.

The racial hierarchy thing is new to me

@@aintnoslice3422 Israel does not practice racial hierarchy, what are you smoking?

​@aintnoslice3422 and I think what you're saying is we need to start a massive harrasment campaign against this person until she declares the lion king is about jesus or something and she's sowwy

Yeah lol. Way too many people forget that the majority of kids are, in fact, human beings you can have an equal conversation with.

You have to keep in mind a lot of parents put movies on to keep their kid distracted or as a way to ease the burden of raising them themselves and thus won't be having these sit down and talk moments with their kids. They put faith in the idea that Disney is a family friendly company and could only have the consumer's best interest in mind. I cannot recall a single instance of my overworked, immigrant parents ever starting a nuanced discussion of anything that they let me watch. And anything that they didn't let me watch was swept away as soon as something "too heavy" happened, often in a way so abrupt that I was compelled to search for these heavy topics completely on my own, at times piecing together answers from other media, which of course meant it was a long confusing journey to finally getting a full picture of the world at large. It is still important to criticize what is being put out by these media companies and not just berating parents (either willfully or ignorantly neglecting their child's intellectual development) if we want to actually help those children who would most be disadvantaged from the problematic elements of these movies.

i think many biologists and animal lovers would agree here!

I mean competing with cheetahs is not that impressive

@@DanJuega Compete? They straight up BULLY cheetahs

Lions are also known to mainly scavenge off of Hyenas kill.

@@DanJuega Cheetahs are really successful hunters, but when it comes to a fight… yeah they get bodied pretty easily.

I agree.

Why do you need to debunk the idea that a lion pride is a bloody nation? Are you teaching kids, or adults who think like kids?

It's about what it represents.

@@SM-cv8svyou’d be surprised by how stupid people are when it comes to their knowledge of animals

I like your ideas and I think the idea with Nala is a good idea as soon as Simba was shirking his duty she should have just been like fine I’ll do it myself

L...Lindsay? Lindsay Ellis? My hero Lindsay Ellis saW MY VIDEO? UM UH OH GOD UH HI HELLO WHAT DO I SAY UH...OH GOSH UM THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR WATCHING! Hope you're doing well!

...Also, now I'm super curious about those mixed feelings lol! If something about the video left a bad taste in your mouth (and you have the time to share), I'd love to hear your notes. Cheers!

@@The_Sin_Squad well to be honest it was the part about paranoid reading, it put words to a phenom that I have first hand experienced, and at the same time kind of reinforced why I couldn't do this anymore --I think it is true that there is validity to understanding how marginalization creates paranoid reading, but I just don't have it in me to be sympathetic anymore. Paranoid reading quite literally ruined my life, and the reality is now i can't approach these topics with the kind of empathy and impartiality that you did. Anyway, great video, you're a super talented editor!

​@@LindsayEllisVids Oh my gosh, thank you so much for the reply! To be honest, a lot of this video became like...an attempt to process my own turmoil over the time I was dogpiled over a paranoid reading (I wrote sfw omegaverse with characters of color and was accused of racism, transphobia and homophobia re: "ascribing animalistic characteristics to POC.") That NBC article where you talked about the trauma of your cancelation put me on the path towards recognizing and accepting my own trauma-so thank you so much for that vital commentary. It really messes with your ability to trust people, to watch friends turn on you over the most bad faith, paranoid takes. And these days a large group of consumers seem...way too happy to leverage their marginalization as a cudgel to try and control, shame, and otherwise harm creators. I'd hoped to untangle my thoughts with this video, but I still find myself torn. It's hard to justify one's existence as an over-analyzer by trade, when over-analyzing has itself become a weapon against marginalized creators, y'know? It means so much that you took the time (and the risk) to reply so honestly, and I want to send you all my well-wishes. It makes perfect sense to like, not want to extend a sympathetic hand to people who may very well take your words and twist them up to make you look like a supervillain. I'm so sorry for what people put you through. The blame lies squarely on the people who misappropriated progressive language to make their paranoid takes sound like activism. They preached accountability, yet they ruined your life and got off scot-free-some were even rewarded for their abuse. I know this trauma doesn't "go away" with time-does closure even exist for this kind of thing?-but I hope the past few years have brought you some amount of peace. Last but definitely not least, OH MY GOSH LINDSAY ELLIS CALLED ME A SUPER TALENTED EDITOR AAAAAAAFDJSAKLF THANK YOU SO MUCH! AAAAAAAAA! Have a great one!

Oh wow, the chick who gargles ContraPoints balls takes a media analysis video about Judaism and makes it about her getting bullied on Twitter. Lindsay, go take care of your kid and recommit to going away.

Indeed

No, it's a perfect example of you can be to Educated. If all you see is Demons you'll find Demons in everything.

​@@loslobos786 naw you're just an ignoramus, lmfao she perfectly spells out all the metaphors from the movies in this video and they seem more than just intentional, it may take someone "crazy" or maybe just "educated"(same thing to people like you right?) to see what most don't but that doesn't mean the very idea is crazy. Something tells me your an ignorance is bliss kind of person, so I'm gonna stop before you try and find my communist a$$

If you really think she's unhinged for noticing glaring and seemingly intentional metaphors then I'm guessing you think anyone with any type of nuanced understanding of anything is also "unhinged" by their obsessions right?

@@QueezTheDefiantScientist lol this isn't nuanced, it's insanity there are no metaphors here just the ravings of a self admitted women who suffers from depression anxiety and probably a host or other problems!! What's more likely that Timon and his mother have Jewish mannerism because the actors playing them are Jewish or because Lion King 1/2 is a secret allegory for the book of Exodus??? It always astounds me that people pay no attention to the Bum on the street corners ravings but one loca girl with a psychology degree online makes a video and she suddenly has a point. No wonder this country is FD we let you people vote.

But there's something to be said about Scar being very effeminate, SIGNIFICANTLY darker than his brother than the other lions, and queer coded being the corruptor of the natural order.

That's how I read it too, at the end of the day The Lion King is a modern day Parable, like you'd read in Aesop's Fables. It's not intended as an endorsement of any real world power structure, it's a "just-so" story featuring Animals. It's not propaganda for white supremacists, and anyone who reads it that way - is probably a racist.

While it makes sense narratively, I also like the interpretation that it was just bad timing that the drought happened and the point of it in the story was to show the kind of leader Scar is under a bad circumstance. Because it's easy to be a leader when things are going well, but when things are bad and you have to make tough decisions is what separates the good and bad leaders. And Scar was repeatedly shown to not be putting in the effort, blaming others, wanting respect for doing nothing, and when the time came for a hard decision (leaving Pride Rock to follow the herds for food) he outright said he'd rather they all die then leave Pride Rock aka admitting how bad things are and fixing it aka literally and metaphorically putting HIS pride over THE pride.

Yeah, I remember also being puzzled about the fate of the Pride Lands after Scar's coup when I stopped to think about it, and then I read MacBeth for the first time and something clicked. The fact that the plot of The Lion King kind of resembles Egyptian mythology kind of reminded me of how I'd heard that pharaohs were apparently seen as being the ones responsible for the Nile's inundating, which would presumably mean that the nation not having a legitimate pharaoh would lead to a drought. I also kind of like the wackjob interpretation that it was Zeus that caused the drought, being personally angered by Scar's assassination, and then later told his son to kill him, hence his being shown dead in Hercules.

@@tomasmccauley569 It's possible, but I highly doubt that's the narrative the movie was going for. I'm pretty sure Scar was only voiced by Jeremy Irons because he's a very good actor, and because it's tradition for villains in American cinema to have British, European or Russian accents. Because they sound exotic and cultured, decidely un-American. The Lion King is basically Hamlet with Lions at its core, with a skin of African culture stretched over it.

I can at least tell you you're not alone. So, so, sooooo many marginalized creators feel that same fear. If I may get up on my soapbox: I feel like more and more people have learned to dig for the most bad faith reading first, and then-rather than double back and consider, like, the author's humanity, or other opposing-but-still-valid reads-use that paranoid analysis as a cudgel to shame and punish the creator. It's been bizarre to watch unfold online: I've seen fans admit to feeling PRESSURED by their peers to perform this type of analysis-turned-hound-hunting just to keep the target off their own backs. Others use callouts to accrue social brownie points, or even to bond with fellow fans. The good faith criticism gets lost in the noise. And like you pointed out, this culture of paranoid analysis begets paranoid creators. For a lot of creators, the question has shifted from "What if I get dogpiled over my work?" to "WHEN will I get dogpiled over my work?" I’ve been dogpiled myself over fanfic already (I was accused of racism for "assigning animalistic characteristics to characters of color" because I wrote a SFW omegaverse fic with main characters of color). I wish I had an easy solution for you. I believe in reflection and sensitivity readers. And I also believe, like I stated in the video, that minorities are not a monolith. Maybe this won’t do anything for you, but personally-it got a lot easier for me to write once I’d accepted my work would always harm SOMEONE. I really don’t think there’s such a thing as a completely non-offensive piece of fiction. We talk about perpetuating harmful tropes through our work, but from one autistic queer woman to another…I’m pretty sure all of my favorite ace, autistic, and female characters could, given the right framing, be labeled as regressive or offensive. My favorite ace character (Jonathan Sims) exceeds some notable, stereotypical ace criteria right off the bat; he’s presented as awkward and cold and (later) less-than-human. But his ace-ness means so much to me as an ace person. Some ace people feel differently about Jon, and I suppose that’s the point. The harm some people take from a piece of media doesn’t necessarily negate the joy taken by others. If you try to remove all the harm from your work-any aspect which could be construed as offensive or regressive-you’ll get styrofoam every single time. This type of paranoia, from both the reader and writer side of the aisle, is really, really good at producing white, cishetero, neurotypical, god-honoring moral fables. And I want to stress that even the most bland saltine of a story can still get you dogpiled, for no other reason than someone got bored. I don’t know you or your situation, but I hope you can let some of that self-scrutiny go. You will, almost certainly, unintentionally offend or deeply upset someone with your work. I wish I could tell you how to balance creative freedom with like, some amount of care and awareness, but I don’t think there’s any one recipe re: “How to recognize/honor good faith criticism and also not paralyze your creative process.” It’s okay to not know all the answers. I’m sorry the creative atmosphere is so tense right now, and I wish you so much joy and freedom in your pursuits.

​@@The_Sin_Squad The only thing in that fanfic situation you *actually* deserved to get bullied for was the omegaverse shit lmao

⁠@@herpderp3916I am cringe and I am free lol

What y'all are talking about is so close to home. I two, also worry about paranoid reading of my own writing. Tho I'm still figuring out my own self, I can say I do desire to possibility write A gay or trans character. But I fear someone interpreting my story as offensive mainly cause the use of Anthropomorphic animals. Which is not my intention whatsoever but I worry someone my interpret my characters as bad representation. Anywho have A good one fellow writers.

OH MY GOD (why had I not considered that other people named Tom could watch this video? Sorry to reach through the screen and yell at you specifically lmao!)

@@The_Sin_Squad It's all good! I was just... VERY caught off guard. Didn't help that I grew up in a place full of Boston accents and mostly Jewish classmates - this video got real meta *real quick* right then.

Hello fellow Tom

Symbolic Tom

Strangely enough, I actually recall hearing that Scar wasn't a lion in earlier drafts. Guess somewhere in production the filmmakers decided they wanted to make him an Evil Uncle character, which meant he had to be another lion.

I think that this line of thinking extrapolates in opposition of the fascist and biological racism critiques (which are still very much valid mind you). The lions are at the top of the circle of life, and they are at the top because they're lions. They're at the top because, in the real world, lions are apex predators. They're also at the top because they're kings and Disney fairy tales are often about royalty and medieval-renaissance era depictions of heroes or monarchy. Lions themselves are also traditional depictions of or symbols for royalty in the western world. Lots of other decisions are like this too. The lions have dominion over the rest of the animals, which can be interpreted as biologically justified racism, but it can also be interpreted as mere retrofitting, where the story is about savanna animals, anthropomorphized, and the resonance between the two doesn't map 1:1 and the most objectionable elements of the humanizing are merely by products of the incongruities of humans and animals. Human races aren't literally different species, but it intuitively makes sense to depict the different species as different races (they're visually separable, they would necessarily have their own distinct communities and cultures, biological families would be mono-species etc) The hyenas are similar. All of the criticism directed at them for being a racist caricature of american black people is correct. But there's also the more superficial aspect to their existence. Hyenas exist, they're (literal) opportunistic scavengers, when we anthropomorphize these qualities we moralize them negatively, so they make sense resonantly as the villains, or at least malignant henchmen. I think the two biggest questions are "how much does The Lion King read as a tacit endorsement of fascism versus an incidental depiction of fascism caused by allegorical imperfection?" and "regardless of the answer to the former, does it have real tangible power to stoke fascist sentiment in its viewers?".

@@tinfoilslacks3750 A third question would be, "Could you design anthropomorphic characters that don't, intentionally or unintentionally, fall into racial catagories?" And with that in mind, "Should we do it intentionally to stay on top of the narrative, or simply use the character's personality traits to dictate the animal they're portrayed as?"

​@@allnonethevoid1487if you look at Timon and see a Jew or any other ethnicity or race in an animated character for that matter that says more about you than the character...he's just a funny African rat that's all....seek therapy.

Jesus Christ how did you people survive adolescence?!? Timon and Pumba are a classic comedy trope of a straight man and a dimwit comic relief. It's a technic in Comedy that stretches back to Vaudeville all the way to our current day. Like Laurel and Hardy, Abbot and Costello, David Spade and Chris Farley, The Rock and Chris Hart!! Timon is the Straight guy and Pumba is the Dimwit. All that crap you just spat out is BS. Stop overanalyzing stuff that's how people have Strokes. It's just Comedy retards laugh laugh LAUGH!!!!!

And like What if there were humans in the Lion King? What social group are they supposed to metaphorically represent? We are not gods separate from the forces of nature, but animals as well.

Yeah, and it always becomes a problem because of our inherent bias towards certain species, like whichever racial group (or other societal group) becomes analogous for rats (or any other gross animals) are always going to be rightfully upset

Exactly, it's the same thing that bugs me about using superheroes as a shorthand for minorities or a story about witch hunts in a world where witches are real, because it takes away from any anti-bias message when "the other", instead of being a human like ourselves, is either literally a different species and/or has a bunch of unnatural powers.

Instead, use humans to represent animals instead! (this is a joke)

So are we just tossing out the concept of a fable here? Because fables are stories about animals aiming to teach a moral, which would mean adressing some sort of social issue. Just because some people don’t know how to write allegory doesn’t mean we completely abandon allegory as a narrative device.

That bonus feature lives deeply inside me, I was also terrified of the hyena eyes on sticks. This shit impacted my sense of humor like nothing else

Yes! And a "Who Wants to be a Millionaire" game called "Who Wants to be King of the Jungle"! I loved playing that game.

@@LoraCoggins OH MY GOD what a memory

Omg I adored that dark ride!! I must have replayed it dozens of times, haha That's so cool!! Congrats OP ❤

Didn't the special edition of the first movie also have a dark ride game on it?

I don’t know about that. It seemed to me that Scar’s rise to power was a derailment of the circle of life, which Simba restored by taking his rightful place. You can say that the focus of the movie is the injustice and conflict between Scar and Simba, not on preaching natural hierarchy, but it still does preach natural hierarchy, and you can’t just dismiss that. Plus, if the creators intended to show that everyone is important in the circle of life, then they did a pretty poor job including the hyenas, poor low-life outcasts who can only endanger the system and must be controlled. What Lion King is good at is telling a narrative of natural hierarchy by comparing social groups to animals.

Plus it isn’t about what the creators intentions were, it’s about what we got.

@@ernestwinston8851 There's a time and a place for "Death of the Author" analysis but flagrantly discounting their intentions has never been what that literary analysis technique has been meant for. I find it more useful as a way of indicating how well a piece of media does in actually conveying a message the author claims it does. Case in point is literally everything J.K. Rowling has said about Harry Potter in the past decade. She CLAIMS the series carries an inherently anti-racist, anti-fascist message, but there are such a huge number of elements that contradict those themes that it makes what the author's intent was irrelevant. On the flip side, you can't apply the same logic to, for example, the works of H.P. Lovecraft. You can't claim that Lovecraft's intent behind his stories was "irrelevant" to the context of his stories, because many of them are overtly racist and MUST be analyzed in that context.

Yeah, but... you deal with that family and community survival stuff by hanging the space Nazis, because ideally space Hitler did the job for you and heroically broke into the space bunker to kill space Hitler and his space wife. You heal with your loved ones by enacting unfeeling iron justice on the top of a pyramid. You only destroy vacuous Jorbson Lobsterson hierarchies by guillotining the tops of the pyramids and making the cowardly middle aware of being spared. Bismuth was always right. The Breaking Point was Madame Guillotine, and always should have been a mass-produced peasant weapon that could slay false gods.

this is an overcomplicated way of saying "its not that deep"

⁠@@jaredjams4267I think it means some people can ignore the bad things happening in the world while others can’t. “See through the blood” as in “look past the issues”. Some people can turn a blind eye to the bigoted kind of stuff happening, but usually those who are either affected or empathetic find it impossible to ignore. “Your red is different from my red” might mean “your idea of bigotry and bad things aren’t like mine”. Most people expect bigotry and tragedies to be obviously bad, but it’s not; there’s microaggressions and horrible things that don’t seem like a big deal at first.

BTW I’ve barely watched the video, but based on the fact it’s about white pride and Judaism (in the form of a Disney movie), and the possible nuances to the quote op said, I’m just kinda eyeballing it.

A quote that also applies to the hypocrisy of calling the actions of one group and ignoring the similarities in others. Specifically a lack of mentions on the concept of goyim and how that fits into this whole comparison.

It was nice to read this take as a left-leaning liberal also, I thought I was going delusional or that I was wrong for disagreeing with the main arguments to a degree. I know that the unfortunate parallels to fascism and white supremacy exist and it's in very bad taste and I wish it were different. Disney should be held accountable for it also. But I would love to hear more about Lebo M and other POC creators who worked on the 2 movies and what their thoughts are. When I was younger I remember watching the extras on the DVD and learned about how much of a cultural impact Lion King had in Western black culture, and it always makes me wonder why this talking point is erased when white folks criticize Lion King for being about white supremacy.

Yeah, I didn't want to say it cause I'd probably seem racist, but The Lion King is my favorite movie of all time. It has so much personality and I love it for that. But yeah the video makes some good points too.

I saw The Lion King for the first time about a week after I had turned eighteen. I was aware of some of the problematic elements in the film (thanks in no small part to a lesson from a sociology teacher, who also claimed that Belle and the Beast's romance was Stockholm syndrome (which, I might add, is a syndrome that largely has diagnoses made by the police and sensationalist news, rather than professional psychologists), so....), but I noticed that the villain...is British. A story set in East/South Africa, where the villain is a British man seeking total domination over an area by killing its wise leader (voiced by a Black man) at the expense of its environmental wellbeing. It's not particularly subtle when you see it like that. When you look for the divine monarchist and white supremacy narratives, you will find it, but if you look for the anti-colonial and anti-imperialist narratives, you will also find it. One of the byproducts of "universalist" stories, I guess, a la the interpretation of The Matrix as a trans metaphor v. the right-wing appropriation of "taking the red pill". In any case, I'm glad that I watched it. It was the final Disney Renaissance film I watched, and I appreciate not being the only leftie out there who has a favorable view of it as a great piece of art.

The point of a good story is that you can draw many ideas from it, some not even intended by the reader. You can connect anything to anything with the right word's and tricks, doesn't mean it's not nonsense.

@@thirdcoinedge just want to say that Stockholm syndrome in abusive relationships is absolutely a real thing, I've seen it happen. At one point she was basically held hostage, not allowed to see family, and was struck, but still she refused to cooperate with police or say anything bad about her abuser. Also it was a psychiatrist that came up with the term.

especially good at projecting racial supremacist views onto other groups while conveniently ignoring your on glaring example: Israel.

I'm a white South African. Thank you for speaking up for me and all minorities 👍

@@jjjjajalololololol no one’s talking to you

@@nirvanaheights I know, I was replying to them lolololololololololololololol

❤❤❤❤

it was my favorite movie in the series as a kid, and this movie finally explains why

I'm curious to know more about your Uncle Max, he seems like he has some interesting traits

is your uncle single

As a kid i never caught this but I weirdly identified with it in a way a couldn’t explain until now. Kind of crazy having me think back to this movie in a completely different light than I had as a kid

mood

You should try something of more substance, so you can develop and rationalize your own ideas

​@@evenlord7825right? why would hennaoctopus admit this

@@superhetoric maybe because not everyone is interested in reading dry ass philosophy books for fun

jokes aside we gotta grow up at some point n actually study these things with rigor. videos like these are fun but are absolutely not a substitute for study.

The hyenas give of the same vibes of autism speaks "I am autism." Ad. Or also just the shit autism speaks says in general. How the fuck is that ableist eugenicist crap still promoted as "a charity to help autistic people."

Sorry I'm getting off topic lmfao

Damn…I felt that, especially as a fellow autistic person.

Are you okay? /pos (concerned)

I view the neurotypicals as inferior. They are the ones fucking everything up with their ditzy valley-girl/boy whore mentality. Injecting social skills requirements into places where they ought not be. They will cause another Challenger disaster to happen. They even banned me from Twitter for accusing them of cheating their way through college.

I don't think the status quo can ever be truly undermined in the allegory vs animals as people. As humans, while we are mammals, our existence relies on a position to observe the natural ways of life around us and nurture in exchange for survival and thriving as a species ourselves. since the lions are still animals, in comparison to the other animals in the pride land, it will always be a mucky metaphor. I think as a kid my favourite part of the lion king was that there were no humans and i was able, from a cultural perspective, be okay with the parts that didnt quite equate, because nature and the wild are full of cruel and horrific acts and things that felt unjust- because the cast of the lion king are in fact animals lol

That seems pretty on brand for Disney, they seem to enjoy stories where villains want to change the status quo while heroes carve their own place in it while keeping everything the same. Pop Culture Detective had a pretty good video on this with Marvel.

@@rebeccagibbs4128 Eh, I'd say that the Lion Guard did a pretty decent job of undermining the status quo. The Lion Guard is made up of a group of animals who watch over the Pridelands, and protect all of the animals therein from natural disasters and unnecessary loss of life. Prior to the start of the story, the Lion Guard is generally made up entirely of Lions, and has been since its introduction. The previous Lion Guard was led by Scar, only for them to be disbanded when he "turned evil" and abused the powers he was given as its leader. It's an entire generation before a new Lion Guard is formed, with the son of Simba, Kion, at its head. Kion is tasked with creating a new Lion Guard, and because he lacks the biases of previous generations, he chooses non-Lions for the rest of his team. The team works together extremely well, but circumstances basically force him on a journey away from the Pridelands (so Lion King 2 can happen while he's away). When he returns, he finds that the Pridelands have a new Lion Guard, and it's basically all lions once again. Kion accepts this, transfers power peacefully, and returns to the magical land he found on his journey with the rest of his friends. So despite the amazing shake up in the Lion Guard status quo, eventually, the status quo reasserts itself. Kion's love life is much the same. He makes friends with a female hyena, and the two share a lot of romantic tension/chemistry. However, he ultimately ends up with another female lion he meets at the magical land of his journey's end. And so despite playing around with it, the status quo ultimately reasserts itself right at the tail end of his story. Despite that, it's still a pretty good watch throughout, IMHO.

@@NukkuiskoHyvinVaiPois TBH, I don’t care for that reading. The villains aren’t trying to “change” the status quo. They’re trying to destroy it…along with everything and everyone else for the sake of their personal gain. That’s what makes them the bad guys.

The Lion Guard always made me insanely mad for whatever reason. I left feeling bad for Kion during multiple points because similar to Sofia the First, Kion gets a LOT of responsibilities for a child to handle when he never even asked for it, constantly putting his life on the line and even having to face Scar at one point, except he can literally burn Kion alive. Isn't defending the Pride Lands and solving conflicts between the subjects of the Pride Lands supposed to be the KING of the Pride Lands' job? What is Simba doing as king if not that? "The Lion Guard has always been made up of lions!" Well with you being the only male of the pride and Kiara, Zuri and Tifu being BEYOND incapable, who else do you expect your child to pick besides his best friends? Not to mention him arguing with Bunga, a child, and causing a cave-in. "Well, you caused cave-in too!" Grow up. I remember the episode where Kion nearly kills his mother after losing control of The Roar. Of course Kion is stressed out after this ensues and tells Nala that he doesn't want to use the roar anymore in fear of hurting those he loves. Nala basically tells him "The roar is part of who you are, you can't stop using it" which I found a bit fucked up. Another thing that bugged me was how EVERY pre-existing character from the movies besides Timon and Pumba (The childish-humored comic reliefs) and Nuka and Kovu (who get like two minutes of screen time throughout the entire series) are written DRASTICALLY different than how they appear in the movies. Like how can you get Kiara wrong? You people do realize making Kiara snobby and bossy and overall the opposite of who she is invalidates the reason Kovu fell for her and decided NOT to kill her father, right? I like how previous kings and Lion Guard leaders show up to lend Kion advice (again, similar to Sofia the First) but Mufasa's advice kinda seems like the same thing just repackaged. "Believe in yourself, don't lose control of the roar" ok, but how do I defeat your brother? Kion x Rani is the worst. She only shows Kion decency when she realizes how powerful The Roar is. "Now I know why the previous queen was so excited to have The Roar back at the Tree of Life, perhaps it should stay around?" Sorry for the essay but I had to get this off my back lol. The Lion Guard is an enjoyable series but it dropped the ball on a lot of things I feel. It would've been better if it took place after The Lion King ll, but I assume the reason it didn't is because that movie is "not popular" which is bull and could've easily been worked around. I love over analyzing kids shows lol.

Yeah. I get it for educational purposes, but the (American) education system really neglects any art for its own sake.

Oh captain my captain

Remind me of a time a teacher was trying to get the "right" answer out of me about an (animal) character in a book who's teeth were described as not worn out at all, despite his old age. And I was like "He doesn't get to use them very often?" because that seemed the most logical conclusion. And she was like "wrong, he's still dangerous". And me: Ikd, if his teeth are in perfect condition on death door, he clearly never used them to kill, much less to fight.

It adds to the feeling if you're watching this while showering 💀

The funny thing is, Orcs ARE based on a real life culture in their earlier depictions: It's the Mongols. Orcs are a usually nomadic people (usually from the east, even) who raid the settled folk and work on the basis of rule of the strongest. They're a 'rampaging horde', which is the view a lot of people have of the steppe empires. Everything from early days Warhammer to Elder Scrolls portrays them as wearing mongol-adjacent clothing and armour. Elder Scrolls still keeps that a bit with Orcs having a lot of Steppe-inspired haircuts, although that's basically the only Mongol-esque thing left about them - few things portray orcs as mongols these days. I guess more recently the people of Ukraine have started referring to Russians as 'orcs' which is harkening back to that vision a little. But for some reason, nobody looks at Orcs and sees Mongols, or steppe peoples in general. Racists see black people and everyone else sees British football hooligans if they're even still doing the 'savage rampaging horde' thing, which a lot of orcs today don't; and as we all know, British football hooligans are in fact an always evil race. Nobody tell the wider community that since the 00's at least, racists have been seeing insectoid races as being analogous to the Chinese, or east asians in general. I'd hate to lose them because of The Discourse™. MYFAROG is right there guys, has been for a decade; racists have and will always see them this way no matter what you do.

@pretentiouselizabeth8027 the whole Mongol/Orc and Insect/Chinese thing goes further back. Tolkien and Heinlein said as much. But the Mongol thing has been increasingly replaced a lot by "Dark Continent" style signifiers. Shrunken heads, totem masks, and that sort of stuff. But it's also in how races get stuffed into a monoculture with no variation that causes the problem. Even the Football Hooligan variety. And as much as racists will find ways to see their worldview in stuff, it is good to not make it easy on 'em.

@@legateelizabeth If you look at the original source for the orcs, the lord of the rings, while there are some similarities to the mongols, there's also differences mainly that orcs are evil and corrupted by Morgoth and Sauron, and fill the role as cannon fodder for the dark lord in the story. The origins and what happens to the orcs were actually more or less unresolved by Tolkien, and he changed his mind about where they came from multiple times. It's also worth noting that in WW1 a lot of British and later American propaganda described the Germans as Hun's from the East, and Tolkien did fight in WW1 so that could have impacted some of the similiarites, although there is no link between the German empire and the Mongols. As far as I've seen "russian orcs" has only been used in relation to the russian's invading Ukraine or who support the invasion, not Russian people more broadly, and apart from both being East of some of the countries they invaded there aren't direct links between the mongol empire and the current Russian empire

@@user-cx9nc4pj8w The link between the Germans and the Mongols is that germanic tribes were recruited by the Huns against Rome, and the Huns were a Turkic majority steppe horse-raid people like the Mongols. The Mongol Empire also quite famously invaded and occupied what is now today's Russia, and Ivan III breaking away from it laying the foundations of Russia.

I hate the idea that "if you see Black people when you see orks, YOU'RE the racist" when historical media analysis of media made by white people shows a clear pattern of Black men specifically being shown as "brutish thugs that live in gangs/tribes". Like, if that description doesn't scream "ork" to you, idk what to tell you, but racist propaganda has a long history that is easy to find, and pointing these things out isn't f-ing racism jfc

I don't think there is a single unproblematic Disney movie. That's a natural result of the period and people who made them (white middle aged dudes) and a reductive stories trying to delineate clear good vs evil Christian outlook, juxtaposed on the real society that will always produce "some people are inherently bad" narrative.

100% agree

Leftists are prone to this?

I’m a Jewish person who can digest milk, but half my family is lactose intolerant.

Why though?

​@@thegnarledpirate9198 Gonna just come out and say genetics. Feels bad, but sometimes it just is.

@@thegnarledpirate9198 ironically yeah its genetics. has to due with how people in regions dependent on milk would end up either dying or slowly losing lactose intolerant genes across generations, and on the other side people in regions without as much a need of milk wont be as dependent and so by chance after generations the genes for it spread.

@@harrietamidala1691 same lol

Yep, very nice of her to have made a 53 minute long video demonstrating it too.

NGL, _Meerkat Manor_ had better writing than the daytime soap operas of today 😂

@@KariIzumi1 for real 😂

Thanks for sharing your perspective! It’s so cool to see multiple analyses from different perspectives and cultures

The lion king was always my favorite Disney movie but I found it hard to let myself enjoy it once I got older. Since I'm white in America it feels shameful to enjoy the white supremacist narrative I in real life benefit from. I'm so overjoyed to learn that the heart of the film is enriched and even changed when viewed through the lens of your perspective. Not because it allows me personally to enjoy a guilty pleasure, since I'll never watch the lion king quite like you can, but because such a visually gorgeous and emotionally potent movie CAN be watched without white supremacy sullying it.

I did not know there was a dub of the Lion King in Te Reo Maori, but I think I have to go find it now!! Also I love your analysis of the Lion King!

Hi fellow kiwi!!

@@TwigCommenter kia ora, cuz!

Shouldn't let someone's hot take and interpretation ruin something for you. If they see the animals as representations of others races and cultures that's on them.

I've yet to see a film analysis that looks at _The Lion King_ from black/African perspective and it's sorely needed. Not necessarily to redeem it from any of the other valid critiques that exist (this one included) but as you said, it's a story based in Africa and basically was *THE* black/African story (at least in popular Western culture) at least until _Black Panther._

@@poppyraima5342 from a non-American perspective it was SO weird to see Lion King the musical as a black culture celebration because none of it read as black to me my whole life (except maybe Rafiki), the voices and the narrative structure about a royal family felt entirely Eurocentric and specifically British, if anything.

Hello there! I'm black and african as well, and although I wasn't particularly into the lion king as a kid, I understand how you feel. I have plenty of shows and movies that I am a big fan of that have pretty disturbing messages or even downright offensive imagery, but they also have some good in them. Look, what you got from the movie is totally ok. that's the thing about art, you're allowed to interpret it how you feel and if it particularly speaks to you that's fine. You're allowed to resonate with the story while ackonwledging that some other aspects may not be as savoury when put it into certain context. You can't grew up in a pigstail and not be covered in mud ever, all american media is colored by their cultural context that include the good and the bad. So the white supremacy that still influences American society to this day, will inevitable impact their media in one way or another. That doesn't mean you can't feel seen in any of the narratives they produce. Plus you can honestly dig up a unsavory interpretation of pretty much everything. All that matters is to keep an open mind.

But we can still enjoy the lion king franchise while acknowledging all that was wrong with it. At least within reason, we can take whatever we’re looking for from a comforting piece of media, as long as we can recognise the issues with it on a higher scale. Especially cause these are family movies. Sometimes it’s good and important to make an analysis like this, and sometimes it’s good and important to sit down and enjoy something you loved when you were younger

Maybe you were taught wrong on everything and Nazis are not at all what you were told by the establishment. Do your own research.

@@dansmith1661 "Do your own research" and claiming there is an "establishment" are the most obvious tactics. You probably don't even understand the way your language immediately gives your game away.

​@@dansmith1661 Nazis are degenerates who need to be treated.

​@@dansmith1661 Nazis are a literal cancer on our species.

Right???

Interesting to think it’s automatically “antisemitic” based on the thumbnail & title alone.

Yeah, plus there seems to be too much reading into the anthropomorphism aspect… just because animals are behaving as humans in media, does not mean we should be interpreting it as a subtle code for real human society. Stories (be they myths, allegories, plays, parables, etc.) are not meant to perfectly capture real life. Calling the Lion King white supremacist would ignore all of the narrative contextual reasons for the framing. It’s bad faith argument, frankly. I always understood the Lion King as an attempted (loose) syncretism of Hamlet and African traditions. I mean, the “good king” Mufasa has one of the most distinctive voices in all voice acting I have heard, and everyone in the 90s knew he was an American of African-descent. Who could possibly read “white supremacy is the natural order” from this? As in, for an actual white supremacy advocate, how would this be useful for that for anyone with even a slight bit of reasoning capacity? Then again, social darwinism makes no sense on its face… people can just be really dumb, it’s true.

Hamlet…. Isn’t about the Tudors though??

@@tomasmccauley569 this was my og take also, or something like it, especially with the n*zi hyenas, and that said n*zi ruin everything and don't deserve a thing. As I got older I thought of them also as being people who want to ruin the environment for their own greed while making sl*ves of the working class. I never thought of them as a minority or disadvantaged.

​@rebitv6158 I don't know the exact timeline of the Tudors but I do know Shakespeare would criticize British royalty and politics often and set his plays criticizing them far away from Britain to avoid getting arrested so Hamlet could be criticizing the rulers of Britain at the time

@@kenzgitz9884 the Tudors were in power when hamlet was written, though I don’t think it’s a direct satire or critique of them per se. I just wouldn’t call it monarchal propaganda either. It’s somewhere in the middle, critical in someways while biased in others, since like you said it would actually be illegal to directly call out any royals in plays at that time.

Unless the meerkats do it then its fine. Its fine they get there own ethno-state and they're entitled to their own promised land (regardless of whoever may already be there) - hmmm....

sure is convenient that Israel - you know, the actual example of racial supremacy, hierarchy, promised lands, ethnic pride, and paranoia - is left out of the conversation. Sin Squad can point fingers at others but conveniently absolves her own of fault.

This comment really resonated with me, because I often struggle with that balance as a writer, where like…obviously you want to make an effort to be conscious of problematic tropes, but if you try to avoid every possible negative interpretation, all your characters become cardboard cutouts and your plot becomes a sort of meadow desktop background. I wish there was a perfect answer, or a guideline sheet I could follow to make sure my art won’t harm anyone-but I’ve really come to believe that’s not possible. I agree that sometimes you really do just have to turn that side of your brain off and write the dang story.

​@@The_Sin_Squad I fully agree, approaching this from the perspective of being queer, even the stereotypes can be fun and worthwhile characters, because people *do* fit many of these stereotypes. Scar is unbelievably camp, he's gay coded to a degree that few characters are, but you can also find real people who really are that camp. Trying to avoid any and all stereotypical depictions leads to a flattening and deadening of the cultures and people being represented, and erasure and tacit admonishing of the people who really do look and act in those ways. At the same time, maybe don't only ever make the villain the super camp one, or have the camp heroic character (let's be honest, the comedy relief sidekick) be ineffectual. edit: (then I watched the end of the video and realized that the video touches on this very line of thought, oops!)

Don't you have real subjects in school instead of about a single group that vastly over-represents the upper class?

But that’s not what they did. At least, that’s not what they did with the original lion king. In lion king 3, they basically just made the meerkats jewish as a tongue in cheek joke. Compare that to something like zootopia, where the whole thing is a racial allegory with a very clear, applicable message.