"Men's angry reactions when you don't treat them the way they think they should be treated" is just what "trans women" are displaying when women (especially) don't treat them as women.

Nothing says what a misogynistic movement it is more than the threats of violence against women but not men.

One doesn't have to be a feminist to go against pornography.

The refusal to discuss the trans issue is a strategy. Like the way they kicked Bob out of the bookstore. They brag about that. The misogyny behind the trans movement is off the chart.

It’s all about feelings and not facts. You can’t have a rational discussion with an irrational person.

What intellectual lightweights the students of today seem to be. I remember really great debates with people with opposing views throughout Uni. It expanded my world view, helped me understand my own position and often changed or broadened that position. In our generations, we did not know where we stood on an issue until we could successfully debate it and either win or make substantive points that well refuted an opposing view. Now days, students have opinions based on what someone told them, do not research it, claim it is backed by science (which they never show), then shout down anyone who they even suspect would disagree. It's not about the truth or the best way forward for everyone, but what serves oneself best and often at the expense of others.

Julie Bindel is the OG of gender critical feminism. She took to much backlash from the queer activism faction, and here she is 20 years later being proved right.

I'm old enough to remember when protesting porn was a normal part of feminism.

This is utterly bananas. And if you ever talk about this to the left they’ll gaslight you and say no one ever gets cancelled?

Civilized people discussing current topics is a rare treat. Excellent video.

The problem is that there are biological differences between men and women and to pretend they can be educated away completely is dangerous.

A man can become a woman but a white person can't be a black person. I'm 50 and want to identify as a senior citizen...I feel like one. Can I be a senior citizen and get my old age pension?

Excellent. I've been looking for a podcast like this for a while without really knowing what to search for - thrilled to find it and delve in. Thanks a million, Julie Bindel et al!

What comes across quite strongly in the stories of being deplatformed without explanation or discussion is where are the grown-ups? It is all so intellectually lightweight and childish.

I think this applies to all activists, none of them have the best interests of the majority at heart. As the great Thomas Sowell asserts: Activism is a way for useless people to feel important, even if the consequences of their activism are counterproductive for those they claim to be helping and damaging to the fabric of society as a whole.

The problem with identity politics or the oppression Olympics is that in a race to the bottom a lot of people's feelings get hurt.

Please make your knowledge more available by participating on other platforms as well. Thank you for the information.

9:42 well said: "We're trans and we're normal! Now hand over the puberty blockers..."

It's wonderful hearing from such thoughtful, really well-spoken gender critics whom I'd never heard of before like Bob Jensen. Very heartening knowing he's fighting the good fight in Austin; he might actually inspire some to think harder and do some learning. Many thanks to him for soldiering on in the face of such mistreatment. Who knew tenure would become so necessary to defend basic ethics and common sense.

Wonderful conversation, thank you both!

There is a major mating crisis and a growing demographic shadow. Its time to support cooperation and long term strategies because without well brought up children there is no future.

It starts in the family. Parents need to educate themselves so that when raising sons and daughters, humanity, kindness, understanding and etc are the values being imparted.

I think you can get more men on board by showing how it is not a tug of war. At the moment, each side sees it as a zero sum game, where if one side wins, the other one looses. If you can present it as a win-win, it will be easier to get everyone to align.

we are listening to your talks! Keep going!

Great talk I love the points you raise and thank you for sharing with us the responces you've recieved. I feel less alone now as I have shared similiar questions and been bullied by people of the trans movement myself. As a non bianary person I feel that these questions are fair and honest and need to be answered and discussed logically without throwing hate around... I have never experienced such hate as I experienced going to an LGBTQ meeting and being told something was wrong with me because I was ok with my body and that I should want to be trans. Why must everything be sexualized?

Thought- provoking interview, thanx. You ask the important question of how to interest men in the aims of feminism? For what its worth, and speaking as a man: 1) The term itself, 'feminism' , is problematic for many men. Unfortunately, and to the detriment of men and women, the term is widely understood as being hostile and anti man, 2) Is it not time for a radical rebranding? Is it not time to present its principles and values as 'redeeming' and enlightening and beneficial not only to men but the whole of society? 3) Finally, the shift came for me when I grasped that every woman is at some level my 'sister' and I, their 'brother'...We can disagree and become frustrated with each other, but to routinely disrespect or exploit each other, , is not normal - it is a sign of 'family' unwelness and 'maladjustment'.

Post op 32 years, never an activist. Stayed in my lane.

Bindel as brilliant as ever!

I actually disagree with this endearing assertion, 'You can be a real man or you can be a human being'! I think the men who inherently think as Bob Jenson espouses here, and live in the way that honours it, are absolutely, 1000% REAL MEN! A 'real' is secure and doesn't need to prove anything about themself. Thank you for this beautiful, encouraging, educational and edifying interview, Julie Bindel and Bob Jenson.

Loved this! Thanks Julie and thanks Bob ❤

Ms Bindel is the charming seductive face of feminism, and because of her charm and intelligence, a great interviewer. I love this series, and applaud The Spectator for affording her this platform 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

Thank you for this discussion.

Thank you for creating and posting this conversation.

Great interview!

Great conversation!!

I don’t see why Rachel Dolezal can’t call herself black when she grew up with black kids, and this is how she feels about herself. After all, it’s a culture, not a race, really. She has more of a claim to her identity than people who claim to “feel” female. What does it mean to feel female? I’ve been female my entire life, and I don’t know what it means. Am I feeling female when I got picked last for softball in high school? Am I feeling female when I had my period? Am I feeling female when I wanted to wear a cute dress and when I was attracted to a cute boy? I suspect it’s these last two things that make people who aren’t female believe they “feel female.”

Spot on.

Unfortunately, the people who kept participating in the lie and believed themselves to be kind are the ones who paved the way for the onslaught on the rights, boundaries, and 'identities' of others. A reminder that participating in lies only ever feeds lies.

Julie is a heroine of mine. Thank you Julie for your Northern strong woman, thoughtful but no nonsense approach to life and for all the important work you do.

Love your lack of ego Bob Jensen. Great clarity.

Thank you, my feminism is reinforced and as strong as ever after listening to this conversation.

Great interview

Lovely interview! Thank you😊❤

Thanks both of you

brill ,quality discussion ..i will watch this again .thanks

Lovely chap!

You could "talk to him forever". I could listen to him for long periods of time.

Bob touched on the real issue, by advocating nurturing, or being a good role model for boys. The real issue is parenting of all children and especially of infants. It is a mess. We see the results all the time, everywhere-good and bad. Anything else is shutting the barn doors after the horses have bolted. Or herding cats, to be less defeatist.

Great conversation, could listen to you both all day!

Excellent discussion

I listened to your talk! I have not heard of some of the topics you speak about, but I think you have made me realize that I am a feminist, by the way that I respect my wife and treat her as my equal. Thank you to you both, for deep and important information about women and men ( and transgender ideology ).

Very thought provoking discussion.

SMART & INTERESTING (THE BOTH OF YOU )

#TerfsWereRight

I love this series, I really wish there were more places I could listen to Julie and Bob

I appreciate hearing from both of you. The trans movement has caused many to realize that many who would not normally think of themselves as allies, absolutely are in this area. Liberals and conservatives. Julie, I’ve seen you with Douglas Murray. The trans movement threatens women, no matter our politics. I’ve noticed the working together is happening more. A couple years ago, it was so depressing mit seemed like we were losing so much. In the last couple of years, there has been a lot more working together and we’ve accomplished a lot more. I know we have many differences, but we’re on the same page on the trans thing. Thank you for your message.

I'm a 70yo man who thinks porn is utterly pointless. It's like looking at an ad for a plate of spaghetti: it looks attractive but I can never eat it.

This stuff ive been trying to explain to people for years!

😊Love your channel. No bias. Reasoning that makes sense. Take care

The cancel culture we have today sprang out of the political correctness of the 80's or 90's. It started with not being allowed to use words like "postman" or "busboy" and now we aren't allowed to point out facts. Thank you so much, Bob, for the excellent critique of the trans ideology.

Great conversation thank you

I would have always considered myself to be "left" wing but am being pushed to the right. I think that the definitions of right and left have changed to the point where they are not recognisable to older people, ie over 40.

It's a joy listening to you both. You're so calm and level-headed. Paul Man New Zealand

As a recently graduated MD who is also extremely left-wing, I have been criticising the trans movement for years and have argues with many (I live in Europe) on gender-affirming surgery. I am blown away by this interview! Please: Which three BOOKS on feminism would you two recommend I read on feminism and the key topics connected to it (feminist critique of pornography, surrogacy and prostitution)?

Excellent series, more of the same! JB is a legend, and Bob joins the long list of brave people, who have done absolutely NOTHING WRONG!

Nope. I'm fully human and a real man. Not a "real man". A real man. Pretty much agree with everything else.

I find the trans movement's arguments and actions to be exasperatingly illogical. There is a glaring distortion of language e.g. a dismissal (maybe it is because of ignorance) of the use of metaphor and simile. The metaphor saying "transwomen" are women - plainly false - is not even acknowledged as a metaphor, let alone an invalid one. The simile "transwomen are (superficially) like women" is plainly true (and yes more nuanced that those few words indicate) and utterly ignored. Transwoman is not a synonym for woman. Transman is not a synonym for man. I think those two examples are illustrative of the intellectual incoherence of trans ideology. A further incoherence, this time in law, is the concept of 'doli incapax' or the principle that children (and yes the legislated ages vary) are incapable of criminal responsibility because their reasoning, and understanding of the consequences of their wants and actions, are not yet fully developed. Notwithstanding that, under the rubric of 'gender affirmation' such momentous processes as taking puberty blockers and undergoing transsexual surgery are taken to be fully informed. One of the most idiotic trans assertions is that someone has been 'born in the wrong body'. We have restrictions for chidren regarding: tobacco, drugs alcohol etc but (mostly) not for transitioning. In 'transworld' contradictions abound.

Thanks for covering this

Julie you interrupted where Bob was going with his point a few times. It's very annoying, i wanted to hear him finish.

Getting there but still pretty insufferable.

In my language sex and gender are same word, and language is gendered, it makes it so much easier to not to let this bulshit in) just because there can't be linguistic and mental gymnastics made to differentiate woman and female

I agree with most of the things said, also with the views voiced by Julie Bindel, Helen Joxce and Kathleen Stock etc on other occasions. In addition I want to share a few thoughts. I hope I can express them halfway ok, as english isn't my motherlanguage. I think the comparison to blackfacing / whites trying to impersonate black or indigenous is partly a good comparison and partly not. It works with men claiming to be women, but less with women claiming to be men. As men like whites are in general structurally priviledged, but women (who claim to be men) are not. On the other hand ftm trans people aren't those who are so much offended and fighting gender critical people so hard. Also they aren't part of the discussion in most cases. Again biological women or ftms aren't often even recognized/mentioned in these discussions in th general public although especially young women are the bigger group wanting to transition (often (not always) due to body disphoria due to mysoginist environments/experiences) . Imo this whole development is a sign of the patriarchy in it's late (maybe? hopefully?) endstate. I see all these gender affirming operations and medical interventions (at least in it's masses of cases) in comparision to how we as humans treat the earth. Our minds think we can do everything with the earth / our bodies (-> a weaker form is the beauty industry with it's beauty ops) instead of accepting, loving and honoring reality/the material world. And with saying this I don't want to blame individuals who really feel a lot body dyphoria. It's just more the societal level of our minds I want to adress. Regarding gender ideology which comes up with a new identy each month, mostly among young people but also older ones joining in - I'm wondering whether this is some sort of mental overkill too (thinking that you can do every with the body/earth is mental overkill for me). People are searching and searching in deep despair to define themselves and trying to find the most individual identities possible. Individualism is especially a western trait of the ego being entagled in your feelings and hurts... All this instead of just realizing you are a soul in a male or female body. The stressing of ideologies and mind over body are also very patriarchal ways of being/thinking. As many have already stated there are other signs of patriarchy involved - the medical industry -> capitalism and also the backlash of gender roles -> you must be trans when you express thoughts, habits and behavior fitting to gender clichees of the opposite sex. oh, and Bob's criticism of the left being a liberal movement stressing the individual approach instead of structural criticism and the incoherence between saying you aren't ill, but demanding medical treatment was eyeopening. Thanks for that!

Thank you for mentioning the violins in this movement. YT bans my comments if I use true words. I myself was a*s*s*a*u*l*t*e*d by a TPA in Nanaimo

‘REEEEEEEEEE!’ 😂

❤Julie Bindle ❤

I didn't agree with many points of this video, but that final statement of "you can be a man or a human but not both" is absolute garbage.

Why don't you all just keep it in your own bedroom?

I tell men what’s good for the goose is good for the gander ; if women aren’t happy , men won’t be happy . Treating women well is in men’s self-Interest ; must appeal to self-interest.

Aged 6 I went to a battered wives hostel with my mum and we were rejected because some of the women opposed me and my 4 yr old brother staying there. It was such a shock being told they saw us as a danger.

So MLK's vision shouldn't be upheld? This extra focus on race is why we're further divided than before Obama (on race).

This video had 666 comments and I felt uncomfortable, so here I am. P.S., Julie, I want to write my dissertation based on your work, so hopefully I will be able to get in contact with you. Law student here.

Oh, I am enjoying this video *so* much! It's wonderful to find like minds with people who are fighting, in the trenches if you will, against ignorance and how some feminists and left-leaning individuals just don't get how illogical the majority of trans movement. This has been true always. I used to "visit" Trans newsgroups over 20 years ago and they bickered constantly on what trans was and, of course, each individual believed their own experience was the only experience. Also, they *almost never* talk about why they are trans. There was a study of 12 brains of f-t-m trans, about 15 or more years old by now, show that there is an abnormality in the hypothalamus in the brain of transsexuals. They seem to just want to believe in trans magic. to explain why they exist.

Intellectually incoherent, at least. Low T with the men; high narcissism with the women.

Julie- the Labour Leader seems to have allowed his daughter to identify as his son. In a recent interview he says he has two ‘boys’ - 13 yrs and 16 yrs old. How can we trust a leader who clearly is lying and captured by gender ideology?

this was excellent, thank you

I just scrolled down the comments and the first comment was spam promoting porn!!

Julie Bindel is my heroine.

some of us don’t want anything to do with men but it’s not about seeking protection from other men. it’s just living life with as little interaction with men as possible. men should be helping each other to be better. women shouldn’t have to deal with that emotional labor

I found this enjoyable on two fronts. First, I’m thrilled to see people recognizing and discussing (as these two have for a long time) that this ridiculous trans ideology is truly intellectually incoherent and also truly damaging to the rights of women that have been hard fought and won, but are now slipping away. Secondly, I found it truly amusing to hear this obviously intelligent gentleman make multiple comments about capitalism as if it were some type terrible idea instead of system of voluntarily association and economic interaction that has consistently raised more people out of starvation and deep poverty than any other idea that a human mind developed. And then throw in a few ‘comrades’, etc. and we see that, even though get clearly gets the serious threats posed to women’s rights by trans ideology, he clearly doesn’t have a damn clue about basic economics and the inherent problems with socialism/communism and its refusal to acknowledge basic human nature.. 😂👏👏👏

Its an ideology, and ideologies don't have to make any sense.

Why am I radical again???

Most of these people I have seen in the media come across as self indulgent narcissists.

I appreciate the identification of how trans "thinking" can not reconcile with itself, but I'm not sure I'm buying into assertions about what is proper behavior in various cases. And the repeated assertions regarding how the patriarchy is just woven into things comes off a bit as off-handed excuse making. Regarding our biological sex driving us toward this and that, it can be a little complicated. But we can't deny the studies that have shown that the more egalitarian society becomes in the West, the more the sexes freely choose to gravitate toward more "traditional" capacities and interests, in general. It was good to hear people were able to see past the guest's bravado and masculinity, though. I would put forth that women are not blameless regarding how many men react negatively when treated a certain way. There's a reason they view themselves through the eyes of others. You'd think a group that mistakenly blames the patriarchy for them feeling as though they have to cater to modern beauty standards would be more open minded to that.

Why do people say, "dirty pictures?" when they mean, "pornography." I have a theory, which I discovered thirty years ago when I attended the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas. With one exception, the janitorial staff kept the show immaculately clean. I found the exception at the auditorium dedicated to pornography. It smelled like stale tobacco and whisky, which came from the cigarette butts in the over flowing ashtrays and the used beverage containers that also littered the table. So I figure "dirty smell" equals "dirty pictures."

Remember Mylo...

Real men protect women.

"Theres nothing wrong with us" I'd love to see the statistics on how many trans people are on SSI or another form of paid disability.

Julie is simply the greatest. My heroine and inspiration. Even with her prejudice against panettone

I don't know what I believe as far as the trans ideology... For me, so long as you're mentally well and an adult (over 25) then it's fine if you're trans. I like to listen to both sides, but I'm really tired of the animosity, lack of debates and "cancellation,". I wish we could just talk, do research and come to an understanding, but each day I feel more and more hopeless in humankind and it's ability to solve problems without tearing each other apart.

And it has taken stuff from. It's taking our right to be men away.