I mean isn’t this completely different because we are on the turn rather than the river? In the river spot he was capped but he can’t realize anymore equity, on the turn he’s capped but we still get called by worse when we over bet? Maybe I’m not understanding.

If he wanted to go play 5/T live I'd probably buy half

I kid ofc, thank you so much Pete and Sebastien, was a very insightful session

I know this is boring but the truth is I am very clearly a potato

I'm the Lord's Kale/the Devil's Lettuce

We have entered the age where thumbnails are created by AI.

Sebastien here. Bluffs that make sense as shove mostly A5s A4s. If you wanted to bluff sometimes with ATs as well I would not hate it. Very weird spot. Should rarely come up for anyone. Both OB shove and block are fine in solver. AJ AT and QQ only have equity for small block. AK+ has equity to shove. Sometimes folds out better and gets called by worse. Very weird very rare node. AK maybe thin in practice, but not in theory. Very hard for me to know what ranges look like in practice here, because I have never been here.

This guy would.

I guess if you have a HUD or observation based read then sure. @@jeffshackleford3152

He is a mid to high stakes player if I'm correct. At that level taking things like that into account do actually matter, NL100 or maybe 200 and below, don't bother about it.

doesnt matter

⁠@@slowfuseIt’s not about what matters or not to you - your opinion is irrelevant.

​@@redraw0160eh no. It ACTUALLY doesnt matter.

@@talullahtheegyptianbaladyd4388 Are you actually a bit stupid? He checkraised the turn - arrives at river and completely skips the river action. I’m not talking about what the showdown was - but there is a decision point on that river node and it’s been edited out.

This idea is actually incorrect and if you look in a solver you will see these "types of hands" 4b oop all the time. Stuff like KTs KJs KQs and AQs. Stuff that would normally flat when IP. The reason why is something I explain in coaching.

@@ColliePoker-re4sx you right in solver land , but in practice vs a nit who have a strong 3betting range 4bet bluffing seems suicidal

Why are we assuming it's a nit? And if it IS a nit, are they not potentially overfolding a 4b? The value of call depreciates as well if they're tighter. Too many assumptions, I think.

Sebastien here. Is the call standard? Absolutely. But when we're playing weaker players (anyone @25nl for sure), we can afford to make great plays that are not standard, and generate a higher winrate by being capable of deviating from standard. Step 1. Does our hand beat value? Not unless they're making a polarization mistake. I think the account playing 20h a day with 1000bb on the felt is probably not making a mistake like betting AQ or JJ. So, we do not beat value. Step 2. Is our hand a good bluff catcher? Yes. Absolutely. I can't imagine a better bluff catcher. In fact, in solver-land the hand is probably worth 4bb as a call. But... WHAT ARE THE BLUFFS? Well, in this case, it's pairs 99 and below. Does a hand like 77 ever mix 3b pre in practice? Maybe not. Do they call a 4b? Maybe not. Do they call the flop? Probably not. Do half of all these sub 25% eq hands 99 through 44 and A5s (which I don't even think they have) fire the turn as a bluff facing x? Probably not, and they are supposed to fire 50% frequency. So it's tough for them to even get to this spot with hands that can bluff, let alone fire them. If they don't have bluffs, we're way behind. If someone gave you J2o off here, would you call? Probably not. And hopefully it's clear now why our hand is not very different.

I actually don’t mind the fold too much, but I do mind this somewhat faulty and contradictory reasoning you’re giving out to justify it. 1) You said this is 25nl where players are weak and have tons of leaks. So why can’t they be making polarization mistakes? Especially someone who is mass multi tabling and is more likely to be clicking buttons and not be thinking about this spot clearly. These weak Villains can easily be betting AK, KJ, even AQ bc of plenty of bad reasons since they are 25nl players after all. 2)Did you hear what Spuds said in the video? He said he had 10k hands on this guy and was 3betting 20%! Meaning he has all sorts of nonsense in his range, including shitload of pairs if not all, and ofc he’s going to call a tiny 4b 300bb+ deep IP and then a tiny cb as well, most likely if they’re aggressive, which they seem like they are since they’re way over 3betting by ~2x times compared to solvers. That alone tells u he arrives OTF with way too many hands, and if he’s not a total idiot, he will be over floating tons of flops esp vs small sizes IP to avoid giving up so much equity by folding a ton which he’ll have to with that massive over 3betting range. So, yeah. It’s not hard to see how it’s easy for this particular opponent to not only have tons of hands that are calling a tiny 4b, but also how he can easily over bluff them, or over stab them when checked to for a relatively small sizing as well. This player profile doesn’t seem like the type to be giving up. However I still don’t hate the fold, but I do like a turn call better unless we had specific info about how this player plays vs 4bs pre, and how he plays them post.

100%. Poker is a joke game. I laugh when people think they know how to beat it with their crazy thought processes

I don’t agree with the statement that it’s a joke game

Sebastien here. I struggled to coach in that spot because I think I have encountered 4b xx xx on broadway exactly 0 times in my life. I ran it and in theory land, AK has enough equity to shove. Solver's preferred size with most of range is shove or block. But it's a weird spot to theorize about because it just never comes up. It is also one of those weird spots where sometimes you fold out chops and AA and other times you get called by T9s T8s QQ and ATs. I didn't feel like I did a very good job articulating my intuition on the fly, but I'm not too upset given that the play is happening in Equilibrium (altho the node is so goddamn rare).

@@ColliePoker-re4sxno worries. Just even the analysis where you break down how many combos you beat vs how many AQ he has that would give you 83% equity (3 combos of AQs and 15 combos of 77,99, KQs). 83% EQ wouldn’t be enough to jam anyways even without villain overfolding. Cool vid regardless and I’m sure your stuff is good i liked the other hand analyses

@@brandonbrown3159 yeah I left out QQ T9 and T8s. Intuition was there but analysis was not haha. Was just such a weird spot, live for first time, underslept. I appreciate the critique