I love the sound!! I don’t care about the stealth factor of silent motors! For me the sound is Awsome! I’m working on getting a kranked motor, which is really loud and sounds like a supercharger! To each their own, for me the sound adds to the fun

I love my 2 diy ebikes, but my surron is just so much more versatile, and I still have the ebikes (2000w, 72V) for when I want them (I.e. trails and paths where I might get questioned on the surron, and the ebike is more ‘stealth’). Different tools for different applications; the surron is amazing over fields and ruts and bumpy trails and has loads of torque, yet the ebike is sometimes more exhilarating on the road. As you have a solid e-mtb, I’d seriously consider a surron to hit those trails you mentioned. It’s a very different experience, and totally worth having both. Cheers!

I run the BBS 02 with the BAC 855 on 52v and 60v set to 2600w over 1000 miles now almost silent operation ridden with common sense no overheating issues.

This is the spot I am in. Have BBS02 on fixed tail and ready to step up. thinking about the CYC Pro. Lots of things to consider. I am not a big fan of the triangle batteries. Thanks for thinking through some of my thoughts as well.

Hey I have the bafang with a asi bac855 and what I will tell you is that the bafang can handle a ton of power I've had my asi bac855 outputting 4300watts constant threw it and the nylon gear was actually looking ok when I replaced it with a steel one just to be safe the problem was that after a long time of riding like that I burnt out the stator, and while that is a relatively easy fix the waiting for the part is the killer for me. I too have been looking into higher powered mid drive options and there are a few options you missed in this video, one good one is a lightening rods big block which is literally one of the best most powerful mid drives you can find but mounting it is a bit more of a pain because it's not very suited for ebikes and rather is made more for set ups like surrons and stealth bombers which actually might be the best option for you to look at doing. I would highly recommend getting a stealth bomber frame so you can have many more options then if you bought a SurRon. I too owned a SurRon for a bit and I loved it and didn't have any chain issues but I took really good care of my chain but the problem with the surrons is the battery options suck because of the tight compartment space you have to work with. If you can get super creative you can come up with diy options but the bomber clones are much easier to work with in respect to making your own diy batteries plus they are easier to do mods like the lightening rods big block motors too. I'm sad I got rid of my surron for a Honda Grom (needed something with a lot more range then the surron and building my own battery was turning out to be a huge headache but I regret giving up on it and getting the Grom cause the surron was so much more fun and capable aside from the range aspect). If you need any help and advice hmu I have 3 ASI controllers I've done tuning with and while I will only recommend getting unlocked ones I do hear the cyc app gives you some options for tuning. Your other options as far as controllers go are the vesc controllers and there are many other budget controllers honestly while the asi controllers are bad ass I don't like that many retailers lock the settings on them making it difficult to tune in your own if you can even manage to get the computer version of the backdoor software which doesn't require you to login (but if you controller is write locked like a lot are you still can't use the computer software which is why I say look for a unlocked one!!!) Yea so I know that's a lot of info to go over so if you need help just reach out to me I go by Aaron Ross on Facebook and I can help you out a ton on there with all this stuff and recommending groups where you can find all the answers you need. My recommendation is if you can afford it and want the best build possible go the stealth bomber clone frame route and build it up from the ground up with the parts you want. This will likely cost around the same as a SurRon but you will have more power and better mods to choose from plus easier upgradability for the same price. There are also some really cheap good options for a already built bomber threw a company called risun motors whom makes a decent version of the bomber in 72v 8000watts peak but it's a hub motor although very capable qs hub motor so you likely would love it.

It’s not available right now but pairing a bbshd with the phaserunner will allow a peak of 4000 watts. The bac855 is stupid expensive and hard to get. My phaserunner was $350 I think and it came with cables to plug right into the bbshd! I think they said it will be available in the fall if you can wait. Running the bbshd at 72 volts with field weakening is night and day compared to stock 🤙

I take my bike to northern MI for trail riding, I love it! I'm in the Detroit area so I use hub motors for riding on shitty MI roads. BUT I bought a gear hub, the best I could find for ebikes, and been trying to decide which mid drive I was going to go with. I already know I want a belt drive that's my #1 want right now, and also the reason why I don't have a mid drive yet. I'm selling two of my three ebikes to make one mid drive monster. I still haven't even found the frame yet. All the premade frames that are capable for belt drive are very high priced. Then there's the cut the frame and weld a fitting on path.. IDK still researching this subject 6 months later. I make my own batteries, so whatever power it is I can build the battery in a few weeks (Testing batteries takes weeks since I only have so many chargers/cap checkers) I'm glad you showed how loud that motor is, that changed my mind instantly. I like ebikes because they're not loud. I almost bought that motor a few months ago to the point of almost hitting "Place Order"

I find that it’s so much more fun and safer riding at night. Usually around 8 or 9 o’clock. I take my ebike for a spin. Sometimes 1 in the morning.

Just bought my 1st e-bike, a pioneer by ActBest. After all the research I did, I did not discover a high powered mid-drive. Thanks to viewing your video, I'm considering an upgrade already. I haven't even received it yet. And then I began to daydream about a 'from scratch' project reverse trike at motorcycle grade. Mid-drive 5K or above + hub transmission. Now, how to rate battery packs that can handle appropriate charge/discharge rates without thermal runaway. The last piece of the puzzle is a pedal generator for a completely drive-by-wire experience but still legally a pedaled cycle. I know this is possible because some German dude already did it to a motorcycle. The thing doesn't use batteries but does use capacitors I think. Anyway, it'll do 60 mph as long as you can keep pedaling. I prefer to use batteries because you can keep charging even while you wait for signal lights or traffic or any other temporary delay. Oh aand why don't I just buy the German dude's bike? Because he thinks it is precious and dear as an exotic Veyron. My house doesn't cost that much.

If you want the option of pedaling the way to go is with a hub drive and use a Pinion crankset. The Rohloff geared hub is great as long as you're not pumping tons of torque into it, it's not engineered to take 3000 watts worth of torque. If it were me I'd get a Pinion with 18 speeds, put a long leg on it with a belt drive and put a quiet rear hub drive in the back. Hey, I'm high tech. I just might look into putting on a front hub too and synchronizing it with the rear so they both pull the same amount depending on my input from the Pinion.

Your other option is the bafang bbshd with BAC855 aftermarket kit, can do up to 4000w. The bbshd is a solid motor

My introduction to E bikes was a 250w hub motor (legal max here). Hub motors are great but there are issues, mostly that you can't use your gears to add speed without pedalling more yourself

a mid drive motor would be awesome!

The CYC is a beast bullet proof motor.Thats what l would get if l wanted a mid-drive motor.I still may build a mid-drive one day.I know l will just don't when.

Yes, trail riding sounds fun! I got a 4500 all-aluminum trek very light 19" frame with 26 " rims. I am a newbie who needs some guidance on how you find out the dropout size? Definitely want the 5000w mid drive motor CYC C1 pro!

Super information thanks!

A true beast Biktrix XD!

Cool info thanks

I have the x1 stealth on a 29" bmx and It's not loud at all. My set up ripps in race mode. Only had it for like 2 weeks but I've been pushing it and it's really quiet. Maybe that will change once I get some real mileage on it. But for now I have to yell out to people on the trail , I'm not usually noticed until I'm about to pass.

I have a hub motor and two bbs02bs, a 2500w brushless motor on a scooter, and a bbshd. The bbshd is impressive I put a 36 tooth chainring on it and it can really move fast with a 48v battery. Waiting for the phaserunners to come back so I can use a 72v battery with it.

For anyone who is having chain drop issues on a mid drive, just get a chain guide. I got one off of aliexpress for like $15 and haven't had any issues since.

Another interesting mid drive motor is the Lightning Rod, if you google for it, it's a beast as well and can run the BAC controllers as well.

I have a motorized bike, I wanted a mid drive e-bike but it was $200 VS $1,000 I like the idea of something like a mid drive 1500w with a rear internal 3 or 4 speed hub, if it's reliable instead of a chain slap derailleur. It might be possible to attach a different (stronger) front and rear sprocket so you could use a larger/stronger chain. With 1500w and some gears I'd think you could cruise along at 35 mph easy once you got up to speed.

Been running a cyclone on my mountain bike for 4 years. I love it, but you're better off getting a bbshd and bac controller for ease of installation. I had to get custom brackets welded for the cyclone. The ones that come stock are crap

if you go with the cyc with BAC 2000 you will need to mount it somewhere else because the spot near the motor is designed for the BAC 855 and also to get the full 5400w at 72v you need a battery that can discharge at 75 amps, most of the batteries I've seen are around 50/60 amps.

you can combine a BAC 855 with a BBSHD. use the PEEK gear and replace the nylon. you can run your 72v pack with it

That mid-drive sounded like a RC car with an overkill battery :')

Bafang with bac 855 is the way to go. Peek gear and auto temp rollbag if gets 2 hot

I'm stuck with 650W and only 15.5 mph. How long can you ride on full speed?

Hey I'm looking at mid-drives too! I wanted to go the belt-drive with IGH route at first but apparently the cheaper IGH's aren't reliable when you start taking them off-road. And the Rohloff IGH is just too expensive. I'm leaning towards the CYC Stealth for a few reasons (chainline, torque sensor, packaging, controller) but I'm not sure if I can put up with the noise either. I also think a Bafang M620 would be interesting, but I don't want to buy a frame with the specific mounting bracket it needs. Lot of mid-drive options but none of them seem like a complete solution unfortunately.

So you still ride the cyc x pro ? I just want to know if it has still survived this long and if you have had any issues with it. I want to buy one istead of driving to work. Tired of gas and insurance prices .

Front and rear 2kw hub motors added as well would take some stress off the chain 😉 Just maybe bit more stress for rider LOL , be 2 wheel drive though

build your own. im building my first ebike. using cyclone

Don't forget i used almost all of the 14k rpm and probably more with field weakening and 72v :). they are not that noisy when going slower. ( talking about the vid of my bike you've added ).

I am waiting for my x1 stealth to be shipped. I'll be building a bike for commuting and the occasional weekend fun in the field. I was also honestly concerned about the noise from the CYC engines, but after thinking about it, do I really need a "noiseless" vehicle? I personally do not, and even better if you can hear me a little while driving around the city, I will not have to use bells to "chase" other road participants away 😂

how big of a chain ring can you put on the CYC Gen 3?, I would hate to buy it and to be ghost pedaling.. you thoughts?

Silent operation is a big part of enjoying e bikes for me. I also hate mechanical problems so even for off-road I prefer a hub motor. They key to get good torque is to choose a smaller wheel size. Bicycle wheels are to big and have bad leverage. A QS 205 in a 17 inch motorcycle rim can peak around 15-20kW and instantly lift your front wheel. For off-road you need to get good tunable rear shocks to make the suspension work with the heavier rear wheel.

Can you get pre-made bikes with mid-drives this good ANYWHERE? I live in De Soto National Forest, so as much as I like the speed, no-shifting use, and chain-friendly aspects of hubs, I realize a mid will be essential.

WHICH model mongoose bike do you have? Thanx!

Wear did u buy the battery ?

We're do I buy the mid engine mid drive moter from please as I am in the UK

whats the best 72 volt battery for the 5000 watt cyc?

Do you know if the internal geared rear hub ,($1000. Rolof or $300 Simano) can handle that much torque?

any link where to buy cyc x1 pro gen 2 5,000 watt 72 volt mid drive ebike motor?

*Здравствуйте! Имею переднее колесо Бафанг 500 ватт 48 вольт.Питаю аккумулятором 48 вольт. У меня не работает дисплей. При покупке стоял c 965 он работал. При аварии я его разбил и купил c 850. Он не видит батарею и скорость. Щас купил c 961 он пишет ошибку 7b. Код ошибки неправильный вольтаж..Контроллер 22 ампера. Подскажите пожалуйста в чем тут может быть проблема? Как мне ее решить? Спасибо!*

Go with asi bac 855 on 72v 4.300watt power on BBSHD is faster then cyc 4.5kw 5kw beacause of higher torque and bigger rpm 16k rpm BBSHD cyc 13k,Bbshd 42t front 42t rear 40mph

Are you planning on selling that cyc motor anytime soon?

Sounds like an RC car

What price was that one

Hi there I bought an ecotric electric bike but I want more power I bought a battery blender but it doesn't work because of different capacity of the battery the original battery is 36vlt 13 amp the other battery is 48 volt 20 amp. Also my bike is fat tire rear brushless hub motor. I am thinking on switch from brushless hub motor to midrive motor I am between cyclone and the New photone midrive motor. The biggest battery I have is 48vlt 20 amp. I would really appreciate your opinion. Thanks again. I really love the content of your videos.

You video pops up and I'm like "holy shit! Watchung Reservation"

I love the noise high power motors make! Metal gears make noise. Mid drive motors don't chew up chains, you're riding wrong and don't know how to shift, properly. If you have issues shifting try Roloff hubs they come with 9 speeds and you can shift gears when you are not pedaling!

Cyc photon are bad ass

I need a motor for my 1997 Dyno stretch roadster. I can't get up hills at all. It's a big bike and I'm 6'5" 300lbs so I need a beast.

I'm currently building a bike with the LR Big Block 10kw mid drive motor

Check out HI Powered Cycles novelty electric bike called the Typhoon Pro. 26x4 rear tire 27.5 in front. It uses a Hub drive but placed in the bottom bracket as it is a mid drive bike. I think it is the very best you can buy.

Luna stopped carrying the cyclones... Fortunately, cyclone still sells their own. They also have them with well over 5kw.

I have the Cyclone 3000 and the CYC X1 Pro Gen2/BAC2000. For the price the cyclone 3000 just can't be beat and is pretty much plug and play. The controller has more connections as well as such as a gear cut off switch that the X1 Pro does not have. The issue I have with the Cyclone is with the motor mount. It's just not strong enough. My chain chewed into it and I had to be creative in reinforcing it. Also it just flat out right ugly and at least 1/3 larger on my bike and yes it matters. Can't sneak up on grandma in the park with a ugly bike. (: About the Bac 2000, the controller it's self is about 125mm x 126mm, however when you insert the cable you have to have at least 130mm as not to bend it too much. I built a 110mm box in my triangle and had to bend the cable to fit it but it shorted out. There's a guy that will 3D print a mount for $160.00 that can be mounted under the frame. I 3D printed my own. I see the 5000 Watts thrown around. Well a 72V/20Amp battery with at least 70 continuous amp 72 x 70 = 5040watts takes a lot of space in a frame and with the controller it's like mounting a 125mm x 125mm box if mounted in the triangle. The Bac 855 / 72V X 50amp continuous battery will give you 3600 watts and is plug and play, looks great and will smoke a bafang. As far as the drive train, I considered a rohlof but from my understanding it has a 130nm peak torque rating. I have a fat bike and had a wheel built with a sturmey archer 3 speed which eliminated drive train issues and I haven't had any issues with it. A 3 Speed with a PAS of nine is more than enough for me. Don't get me wrong though. For a regular bike the X1 Pro Gen2/BAC 2000 is king in my opinion. Just a though...

internal gear hubs are designed AT MOST for 350 -500 watts, if you use one with a belt drive and 100+ watt motor, you are gonna strip the gears out in the IGH.

I don't think you will find an internally geared hub that could take the torque of a mid drive motor over 1000W. If it does exist, then that would be great. I would recommend that you contact the makers of internally geared hub and ask them what maximum torque/motor power it can take before you buy one as there are quite expensive... I am currently running my BBSHD with an ASI BAC 855 controller at 4000w with no issues, but I did upgrade the nylon gear with a PEEK gear. The torque on my bike is impressive, would probably smoke a stock Surron for sure. Have fun with your build. Cheers

You don't need the surron or the Segway X260 For trail riding. Look into The Luna X2 or Luna Z1. They are mint trail bikes, great bang for buck. Comparable with much more expensive bikes. But for true off road capability on a fat tire bike, use the Bafang Ultra 620, Combined with the ROHLOFF 500/14Speed IGH & carbon belt drive. It's Incredible another Kit you can buy that comes with Bafang, is the FREY.BIKE. They sell frame with Bafang kit & rear suspension the rest you do yourself. Also The Bosch has less power but gets u up whatever you need, especially if you plan to ride trails. RADON Render is a good bike.

it also smokes the rear wheel freehub... just broke my dt 54t ratchet with 160Nm

My set up is a BBSHD mid-drive, ASI BAC 855 controller (Frankenrunner) and a custom 72V battery. Come at me bro LOL....

I have a Bafeng BBSHD it is a 1,000 Watt Continuous and 1,500 Watts Peak with a 48 Volt @ 17.5 AH Battery 13S7P and I have a from Drive Gear of 64 Tooth and the Rear is 13- 32 Tooth 7 Speed and Top Speed of 48 MPH in 7th Gear and Very Fast of the Line in 1st Gear with a Top Speed of 19 MPH in 1st Gear. if you can hang on it with go up any hill at 24MPH in 3rg Gear with Me a 210Lb Man and my 50lb Bag I tie to the Rear Rack comes up in Wheelies without Trying and I can Ride on Trails without Burning up my Motor or over Working the Motor and it can go 30 Miles at 35MPH on a Single Charge or you can do 18MPH and Go over 50 Miles on a Single Charge. The Gears make the World of Difference. and Chains That's Easy Carry a Chain with you Hub Motors are always Loosing up Spokes. do you carry Spokes with you? I Bet Not. I Always have My Extra Chain with me and ALL the Tools one would need to do anything to my Bike in the Woods That's why my Bag is 50Lb it's Full of Real Snap-on Tools and I never had to Really use them on my bike but there is Always that Guy who Does need them and they Very Grateful to See me and My Tool Bag when there Broken down Side the Trail Someone has to Save you Hub Motor Fools from Yourself.

Go with the BBSHD and then get a Ludicrous Controller from Luna. The Ludi can go up to 100A and 72v.

i run the cyclone 1800w-3000w motor at 48v never had chains fall off ever, i run sick bike parts upgraded parts UHD freewheel, wide crank axle, 130bcd chain ring spiders that lets me run the gearing i want which is 14t free wheel on the motor to 53t chain ring using EK heavy duty gold 415 motor bike chain that drives a 52t an 36t on uhd free wheel to a shimano nexus inter 3 geared hub 22t cog and i use a locked out rear derailleur i've done 15,000 km (9320miles) with this setup, the bike has 2x 48v 25ah batteries mounted side by side on there side on the top bar of the triangle on a beach cruiser style frame, it's heavy but it's a mountain goat/mule it'll claim just about anything an haul what ever i want.......... don't run plastic jockey wheels on the derailleur or the motors chain tensioner use alloy ones with sealed bearings, standard plastic ones fail......

Agree , The noise the CYC motor makes is annoying.

maybe the reason its so loud is it might use straight cut gears which are more efficient.

Quanto é

Another option is lightning rods who make 18kw mid drives

The Bafang is the quietest of them all. I do not like to hear constant wining of the gears.

Yes! Mid drive motor, belt drive to geared hub! Seems obvious.

Go with the bigger asi bac 2000 Controller when choosing the cyc it is much better then the 855

Hi my friend has a 1500W mid drive bafang bike and it goes 60km/h and the bike can almost get up any slope. I really dont think you would need any more power

Get Talaria Sting. It is better than a Sur ron.

I know this video is rather old. But honestly, I think you'd be more than good with just about any mid-drive motor. Top tier cyclists can only put out about 400 watts of power. Most mid-drives can do almost double, or more, before you include your own efforts. A mid-drive benefits from using the same gearing that was designed to allow a weak human to power the bike, verses a hub motor which has absolutely no mechanical advantage to work with, so a comparatively (to a hub-drive) weak mid-drive will decimate an over-powered hub-drive. If you're on trails that are humanly possible to over come on a regular bicycle, then you should have utterly no problem with just about any mid-drive, which is going to give you super human power (usually a multiple of what the strongest humans on earth are capable of). With that said, you can consider the BBSHD, BBS02, CYC Photon, all of these will be quiet mid-drives with plenty of power.

Bbshd 72v battery with an bac asi controller the best anything else is rubbish had them all

If you're going to run over 180 Newton metres of torque. Why would you waste your time to having pedals? I have a Greaser (rear hub drive) and a E MTB. The Greaser can do with a lot more torque, but its road legal. Being lazy, I have snapped a chain and that's with only 85 NMT.

Watchung?

Just remember everyone wattage is not everything I’m more concerned about a motor that can put out good high torque numbers and also remember wattage is nothing more than voltage Tom’s amperage. You’re going to need a high voltage battery and one that can sustain high amperage output so don’t think you’re going to throw a $300 eBay battery at one of these and expect anything out of them.

As much fun as the SurRon looks to be, around here, the only legal place to ride it is on off-road vehicle areas or private property. We've got great mountain bike trails, but nobody wants to see an electric 'dirt bike' on them. Too much work goes into building and maintaining the trails to begin with.

?

Internally geared hub cannot even take the power of the BBS02

You need pedals though.. Let's be real. The bikes with no pedals are going to be a problem in most all states and constantly looked upon as an off road only bike. That means.. Once cops are hip to legalities you will need to put your Sur Ron on a rack and go find off road trails for dirt bikes

Kyc chin internal gear box expensive and unnecessary just get your rear cassette alignment right and with big torque 5000kms before it even starts to stretch and break

CYC + (BAC) 855 = 3000w CYC + (BAC) 2000= 5000w I’ve got a couple and they are awesome

1000w weak..*sulks with his 250w bike*

Hey guy i run ebikes for a while. Cyc and bafang are the best companies. I dont understand this video. Of course a 4000-5000w motor will run more powerful than a 1000-1500w. I understand you are telling people Cyc is bigger but if you look at the the power rating you can clearly see why the Cyc runs faster. Its triple the power.

Bbshd really weak? ...don't think so! ..especially in the UK where the 15, 5mph top speed and 250w max motor is law? ..but off road anything goes, so its weak comparable to 3 or 4000 watt motors, like my bbshd 52v system as with the 36v 250w sticker on you could just about get away with it lawfully at low speeds? ,even my other 500w bafang front hub drive would be classed as a moped over this side of the pond! ...seems a grey area of the law when a fit young pro cyclist can wizz past me on a normal bike in excess of 30mph! compared to me a 65 year old doing 20mph on a converted ebike and I'm breaking the law?

not impressed , mine does 65 kmh

Smh guys of course a 5000w motor can outrun a 1500w motor. Smh

why are you riding in gutter

dont buy a surron.

I can't take you seriously. You are only talking about power and not about torque.

Cyclone is not practical

can't stand the noise of the mid drive motors sorry but for me only hub motors ......

cyc is crap. my bbshd with bac855 destroys the cyc...

Nexus hub has belt drive options but you need to have the right guide washers to suit your frame. Different colours give it a different angle. You will see if you search it 🇦🇺🐨👍🏼 I have one 3 gears inside but has a cassette on it. Think it's a Shimano alfine.

Cyclone makes a 6kw version and it's cheaper than the CYC. QSMOTOR 90 1kw can take 10kw continously, it's the best of the best but you have create your own motor bracket for your bike