Three Phase: How to Calculate Neutral Current in an Imbalanced Load

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Joe Robinson Training

Joe Robinson Training

4 жыл бұрын

In this video we will carry out an experiment to measure neutral currents in an imbalanced three phase load. Then we will demonstrate one method of calculating the neutral current. Other methods will follow in future videos.
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Пікірлер: 156
@PunmasterSTP
@PunmasterSTP 2 жыл бұрын
Imbalanced load? More like "These videos are solid gold!" Thanks so much for taking the time to record, edit and post them.
@twhis9843
@twhis9843 Жыл бұрын
Thanks Joe. You just explained 3 phase calculations to my son in a way I couldn’t do. You represent what the internet can be.
@realbartie
@realbartie 4 жыл бұрын
Really useful and clear Joe. I've always struggled with 3 phase for over 25 years and found imbalanced loads confusing - until now :) Many many thanks!
@JoeRobinsonTraining
@JoeRobinsonTraining 4 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the feedback Mark, comments like this make my day. The next video I'm doing on three phase gives a more visual understanding of what's going on, look out for it this week! 👍
@deeznuts-pf2lv
@deeznuts-pf2lv 2 жыл бұрын
Sir can you please explain how the neutral conductor stabilizes the phase voltage in an unbalanced load?
@MissLeahTai
@MissLeahTai Жыл бұрын
You are the best trainer I have ever come across. Thank you Joe.
@vievlogs589
@vievlogs589 4 жыл бұрын
Unbelievable what an amazing video Joe.... star struck 🤩
@SME_Ste
@SME_Ste 4 жыл бұрын
My god, spent days trying to learn this whilst in my training day and never really grasped it. Just watched this video whilst having my dinner and its clear as day now, top work Joe👍🏻
@JoeRobinsonTraining
@JoeRobinsonTraining 4 жыл бұрын
Thanks Steven, glad it's helped to clarify things a bit. There'll be other simpler methods to come but this is my favourite for visualisation and accuracy.
@aceey2
@aceey2 2 жыл бұрын
As somebody who works in the trades and only has a surface level understanding of engineering and the math heavy theory of AC systems - thank you so much! I wish I found this video six years ago!
@slonbeskonechen8310
@slonbeskonechen8310 2 жыл бұрын
Мужик с Ютуба объясняет гораздо лучше чем многие преподаватели с учёными степенями...
@sams1107
@sams1107 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks Joe, done this all years ago didn't make much sense then. But with these steps and the practical process at starts makes it easy to follow. Keep up the good work👍
@JoeRobinsonTraining
@JoeRobinsonTraining 3 жыл бұрын
Cheers Sam, will do. 😊
@lsnogaming2893
@lsnogaming2893 4 жыл бұрын
Wow what a video Joe 👍
@taylorkindy
@taylorkindy 3 жыл бұрын
Great tutorial for a purely resistive unbalanced load, its gets a bit more tricky with extra inductive or capacitive elements
@charlotteemms5661
@charlotteemms5661 2 жыл бұрын
I would have zero chance of understanding all these equations without your videos. Thank you 👍 Fascinating that so much comes back to trigonometry. Mind blowing actually!
@JoeRobinsonTraining
@JoeRobinsonTraining 2 жыл бұрын
It's awesome how so much is explained by triangles isn't it? So glad it's helping you out Charlotte. 😊
@brightspark263
@brightspark263 4 жыл бұрын
Wow, what a great video Joe. The method you show in this video is a great method for visualising what happens with the neutral current and it maybe a long winded method, but you can follow the steps through specially seeing how it could be very easy to make a negative number become positive. I also write the formula out when transposing and someone showed that using a different coloured pen when going through the transposition can help you spot any mistakes.
@JoeRobinsonTraining
@JoeRobinsonTraining 4 жыл бұрын
Thanks Chris, I really appreciate the feedback, funnily enough I use different coloured pens when I'm teaching transposition on the board so I may have to bring that in to my vids. Other neutral calculation methods on the way!
@tariqrasheed3792
@tariqrasheed3792 3 жыл бұрын
Excellent demonstration.
@GSHElectrical
@GSHElectrical 4 жыл бұрын
An amazing explanation Joe 👍
@JoeRobinsonTraining
@JoeRobinsonTraining 4 жыл бұрын
Cheers Gaz!
@microdesigns2000
@microdesigns2000 Жыл бұрын
I used a spreadsheet for this at my last company. So it has been a long time, like 20 years, since I had to calculate. Thanks so much for posting this so I could create a spreadsheet for this company, and forget the formulas again, lol. The triangles were helpful to remind me of the math. :)
@antonizurakowski611
@antonizurakowski611 5 ай бұрын
Excellent video. Thank you so much!
@kaimcloughlin8981
@kaimcloughlin8981 3 жыл бұрын
Very helpful, found this method easier than the one i've been shown
@randyfriend7474
@randyfriend7474 Жыл бұрын
superbly done! thank you.
@andrewroberts4908
@andrewroberts4908 3 жыл бұрын
We did this in college, came out completely baffled, the way you explain, it's a work of art. Thankyou.
@JoeRobinsonTraining
@JoeRobinsonTraining 3 жыл бұрын
Aw, thanks Andrew, that's really kind of you, hope the videos help. 👍
@dimitrisblane6368
@dimitrisblane6368 2 ай бұрын
Thank you mate. And beautiful hand writing!
@jakubb1826
@jakubb1826 2 жыл бұрын
Pięknie wytłumaczone ❤️ bardzo dziękuje
@IM-br1eb
@IM-br1eb 2 жыл бұрын
Very well explained, thanks for sharing this.
@Rashad-yw4cw
@Rashad-yw4cw Жыл бұрын
Amazing Bru . Well done . I never enjoyed paying attention to so much geometry and trigonometry ever. I'm like almost in my 50s
@robbrown2007
@robbrown2007 4 жыл бұрын
What a great method of explaining unbalanced load calculations for students who may not have encountered complex number addition.
@JoeRobinsonTraining
@JoeRobinsonTraining 4 жыл бұрын
Thanks Rob, it's the way I like doing it as it combines accuracy and a visual representation. Stay tuned for more! 👍
@pretty_lucky
@pretty_lucky 2 жыл бұрын
That was a really great explanation. Well done! 👏🏻
@fernandoorige7310
@fernandoorige7310 2 жыл бұрын
VERY GOOD!, a perfect explanation!
@shitouserat
@shitouserat 2 жыл бұрын
A nifty explanation of a mathematical way of doing this, this only works for loads with the same power factor/phase shift that are 120Deg apart. for loads with dissimilar phase shifts it can only be done with the parallelogram method ( phasor diagrams) or by calculating polar co-ordinates. Thanks for the Video.
@rossmurdoch1886
@rossmurdoch1886 2 жыл бұрын
Brilliant Joe very clever and easy to follow 👌
@sparkyinwa
@sparkyinwa 2 жыл бұрын
very good explanation, thank you
@MrAshwindersingh
@MrAshwindersingh 2 жыл бұрын
you made my sunday morning osm thank you for sharing your knnowledge
@Mikeecanales1925
@Mikeecanales1925 3 жыл бұрын
Brilliant method,easy to understand the procedure.
@JoeRobinsonTraining
@JoeRobinsonTraining 3 жыл бұрын
Good to know! 😊
@alexhewitt699
@alexhewitt699 Жыл бұрын
Great video! Thanks so much!
@tommyn2759
@tommyn2759 2 жыл бұрын
Great video & well put across 👍🏻
@ionraileanu6510
@ionraileanu6510 3 жыл бұрын
Very good and easy to understand! Brilliant!
@JoeRobinsonTraining
@JoeRobinsonTraining 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks very much, I hope it helped. 😊
@earlyyearslearningisfun
@earlyyearslearningisfun 4 жыл бұрын
WOW how many numbers Joe. Fantastic explanation 👍
@MissionFitnessCTC
@MissionFitnessCTC Жыл бұрын
Slam dunk of a video. Thank you!
@yusrasuleman2163
@yusrasuleman2163 3 жыл бұрын
Oh what a fantastic way to explain first time I understand this thanks a lot
@richardhayden4499
@richardhayden4499 3 жыл бұрын
Brilliant mate, thanks for this, keep up the good work.
@JoeRobinsonTraining
@JoeRobinsonTraining 3 жыл бұрын
Will do!
@angrykawata1992
@angrykawata1992 Жыл бұрын
NICE one. thanks for the sharing.. without complex number.
@helalolsunsanabaskan.darwi864
@helalolsunsanabaskan.darwi864 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you very much for this lesson.Again thank you.
@JoeRobinsonTraining
@JoeRobinsonTraining 3 жыл бұрын
You are more than welcome.
@juanmanuelmenazzi8546
@juanmanuelmenazzi8546 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks! Great explanation!
@mustangmyanmarelectric3510
@mustangmyanmarelectric3510 3 жыл бұрын
nicely done! Thank you.
@JoeRobinsonTraining
@JoeRobinsonTraining 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks and you're welcome. 😊
@bluelineengineeringservice2904
@bluelineengineeringservice2904 10 ай бұрын
Joe you are a good teacher. thank you
@slonbeskonechen8310
@slonbeskonechen8310 2 жыл бұрын
Perfect! Thank you!
@udaykulkarni8989
@udaykulkarni8989 2 ай бұрын
Thanks for the nice training
@mwsc
@mwsc Жыл бұрын
Brilliant explanation.. Thanks
@michaelgorewoda6271
@michaelgorewoda6271 4 жыл бұрын
Excellent video mate, do you have any suggested reading on 3ph theory, vectors etc.. looking at cpd. Thanks again. Keep up the good work.👍
@g.sureshbabu96
@g.sureshbabu96 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you, your explanation easily understandable thank you very much.
@JoeRobinsonTraining
@JoeRobinsonTraining 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you!
@vipinchoudhary2787
@vipinchoudhary2787 4 жыл бұрын
Sir, Thank you very much for this video, you are the best teacher and I think engineering college teachers should learn from you that how to teach the students .
@JoeRobinsonTraining
@JoeRobinsonTraining 4 жыл бұрын
Ah, that's really kind, thanks very much.
@deeps.deepbluesea
@deeps.deepbluesea 3 жыл бұрын
Superb explanation....
@mushqazi9852
@mushqazi9852 5 ай бұрын
Wonderful. I liked it very mUch.
@hhemasi9849
@hhemasi9849 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you sir for your trigonometry course!
@erwinarief4567
@erwinarief4567 Жыл бұрын
excellent video....
@idreesalishah2995
@idreesalishah2995 2 жыл бұрын
Nice video You explain very well sir
@youssefellouki8874
@youssefellouki8874 3 жыл бұрын
Perfect explanation ❤️👌💪 thank you very much
@JoeRobinsonTraining
@JoeRobinsonTraining 3 жыл бұрын
My pleasure! 😊
@philbasset7259
@philbasset7259 4 жыл бұрын
Great video Joe, you do explain it really good but cant wait for the easier way to calculate 🤯.... 🤣👍🏻
@JoeRobinsonTraining
@JoeRobinsonTraining 4 жыл бұрын
Coming Wednesday, all being well!
@canliao2725
@canliao2725 2 жыл бұрын
This video really helps
@JoeRobinsonTraining
@JoeRobinsonTraining 2 жыл бұрын
Good to know. Thanks for watching and commenting! 😊
@earlyyearslearningisfun
@earlyyearslearningisfun 4 жыл бұрын
Hi Joe I have one question for you....? Do you work with GSH Electrical? I watch a lot of his videos and I think I am falling in love with Gaz from GSH... I look forward to your answer. Keep up the amazing work on electrical science and principles you’re making a difference to the industry Joe 👍
@wapjerry3517
@wapjerry3517 2 жыл бұрын
Joe am grateful for u
@leonardmilazi8288
@leonardmilazi8288 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks Joe
@MuhammadAli-ug1ti
@MuhammadAli-ug1ti 22 күн бұрын
Amazing Joe
@josephmbui9358
@josephmbui9358 2 жыл бұрын
Much helpful Sir
@hhemasi9849
@hhemasi9849 3 жыл бұрын
I was thinking about 3phases Ac generators with delta connections, you are teaching the first subject of high school trigonometry course. Thank you anyway.
@nafisamaaz8598
@nafisamaaz8598 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you!
@JoeRobinsonTraining
@JoeRobinsonTraining 3 жыл бұрын
You're welcome! 😊
@joedalelio4071
@joedalelio4071 2 жыл бұрын
Brilliant.
@wassimxec1921
@wassimxec1921 4 жыл бұрын
Thank you very much sir
@constantinosmavris
@constantinosmavris 3 жыл бұрын
excellent video!!!
@JoeRobinsonTraining
@JoeRobinsonTraining 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks!
@tomcardale5596
@tomcardale5596 3 жыл бұрын
I think there's an easier way of doing the trig. It has a built in method of reminding you whether to use sin or cos, uses the entire phase angles and doesn't require adding, subtracting or potentially forgetting about 90 or wondering whether the resulting phasors are positive or negative. It's also easier to type in to your calculator! Start with L1. Angle is 0 (we're working in degrees). 4.1*sin(0)=0 and 4.1*cos(0)=4.1. From this it clearly reminds you that sin of the total phase angle is the x component and cos is the y component. We can then do L2: 16.1*sin(120)=13.94 and 16.1*cos120=-8.05 L3: 8.1*sin(240)=-7.01 and 8.1*cos(120)=-4.05 sqrt((L1sin0+L2sin120+L3sin240)^2+(L1cos0+L2cos120+L3sin240)^2) = 10.58
@JoeRobinsonTraining
@JoeRobinsonTraining 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the suggestion. 😊
@Xxxcappie23
@Xxxcappie23 2 жыл бұрын
Looking forward to seeing the easier method. Great video though 👌. So was there a relationship between the phases with different loads and the neutral or not?
@rodulfomolina5584
@rodulfomolina5584 2 жыл бұрын
Hi Joe, nice video and very straight forward calculation, I've been watching your videos. just wanna ask ,if there was no neutral conductor for this setup, will it be the same approach of calculations and where does the unbalance current path back to the source.
@mohamedabdelmonem6468
@mohamedabdelmonem6468 7 ай бұрын
Fantastic
@mqm324
@mqm324 4 жыл бұрын
Superb excellent
@JoeRobinsonTraining
@JoeRobinsonTraining 4 жыл бұрын
Thanks very much, stay tuned for more!
@no_short_circuit
@no_short_circuit 4 жыл бұрын
Brilliant Joe. Perfectly explained in small understandable steps. Never quite got my head round vectors so this explanation is a true light bulb moment! I assume you could calculate the angle of the Neutral by establishing what angle has a tangent of 8 divided by 6.93? - 1.15 - 49 degrees? - looks about right.
@JoeRobinsonTraining
@JoeRobinsonTraining 4 жыл бұрын
That's so nice to hear, thanks so much for the feedback and you're spot on regarding the angle of the neutral current. Love it when people get a lightbulb moment!
@coloradowilderness3139
@coloradowilderness3139 4 жыл бұрын
Without complex number ! Really nice.
@JoeRobinsonTraining
@JoeRobinsonTraining 4 жыл бұрын
Thanks!
@jbl2270
@jbl2270 2 жыл бұрын
You really have a gift to teach. Thanks for the quality video mate. Let's say that we have a bug house with ground floor plus 2 levels and each level are connected to separate phases of a 3 phase connection. I reckon that the ammeter would measure an 'imbalance' on the N if ground floor and 1st floor loads were switched on but 2nd floor was all off isn't? As such would that cause any issues such as high electricity bill please?
@coatechnics2676
@coatechnics2676 3 жыл бұрын
Big respect
@ANTHONYSKEETE
@ANTHONYSKEETE Жыл бұрын
Great info Joe. I have a related question. Will a voltage stabilizer help the system which has unbalanced loads
@mohamedragab2260
@mohamedragab2260 2 жыл бұрын
Amazing👍👍👍
@dantecufino8445
@dantecufino8445 Жыл бұрын
Thanks for the neat explanation. Could you add the final piece of the equation from a design point of view: How would you select the db size required? Do you just select the highest one of the three or does the current get distributed between the phases so you can select a smaller DB. I have run across a heat treatment application where we couldn’t figure out if we needed a 128A supply or a 64A because one of the phases was above the imbalanced load. We only had a 64A supply in the factory so the decision was costly to bump it up but it was because one of the phases was higher than the others. It was a 50/50 split on which way to go. And since we didn’t have a physical way to test it prior to delivering the machine it was a bit stressful because someone had to sign off on the decision (I do controls design and circuits as in PLCs and stuff but am not a full electrical engineer).
@simonabel6869
@simonabel6869 4 жыл бұрын
I like that your using non harmonised colours for training.
@JoeRobinsonTraining
@JoeRobinsonTraining 4 жыл бұрын
It's all I have access to at the moment. 🤷‍♂️
@busman2000
@busman2000 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you for teaching Trig in a way I can relate to, We were only taught how to measure a single triangle at school, it makes more sense, seeing it in relation to a full circle. That might seem weird to you, but some how I have inherited my late father nautical brain.lol
@JoeRobinsonTraining
@JoeRobinsonTraining 3 жыл бұрын
No it makes perfect sense Andrew, actually trig is just as much about circles as it is triangles. Glad the video helped. 😊👍
@duxanthony2536
@duxanthony2536 2 жыл бұрын
never thought u could solve the neutral current with trigo. Pretty cool. The 0.3 Amp difference is coming from the higher Resistance of the paper and pencil🤘That's why in the field, we never ever use paper or pencil as conductors...lol
@spruce_goose5169
@spruce_goose5169 3 жыл бұрын
Very good explanation. My ADHD required me to speed it up a bit, but the visualization is great.
@JoeRobinsonTraining
@JoeRobinsonTraining 3 жыл бұрын
😂 Yeah it does take a while to get through, glad it helped. 👍
@tilidie5272
@tilidie5272 11 ай бұрын
this was so satisfying i loved it, were so lucky to live in a time where we can learn this visually at the comfort of our homes! the teachers not bad either haha
@markmoralez4558
@markmoralez4558 3 жыл бұрын
You can also use the first condition of equilibrium 👍
@rain0aldwaib
@rain0aldwaib Жыл бұрын
hello joe i know its an old video but i hope you can answer my question now if you want to calculate the overall power of the three phase load should i just multiply the voltage (220) in the current for each phase ((for ex:220*4.1+220*16.1+220*8.1)) ?? or i should take into consideration the neutral current ??? if so then how can i calculate the overall power of the whole system???
@yametekudasaisensei539
@yametekudasaisensei539 2 жыл бұрын
Can you calculate what happen to voltage phases on floating neutral on unbalanced load?, thanks!!
@Omonoia08
@Omonoia08 Жыл бұрын
Hi Joe, I am doing a similar visual for my college students but using mob's instead of a rig with pins. However the rig is much more safe and easier, Can you tell me where to find a similar rig? Great job !!
@nikhilmenon9094
@nikhilmenon9094 9 ай бұрын
Why does an increase in load lead to increase in current? The videos have been extremely helpful and during the viewings we've come to understand that loads act similar to resistance. Therfore what causes and increase in current flow through the supposed greater resistance (hgher load)?
@emirjais7471
@emirjais7471 Жыл бұрын
i need the measurement of the angle :). Very clear..
@KannanKannan-po1rj
@KannanKannan-po1rj 3 жыл бұрын
Should we add neutral current to calculate power.please answer sir.
@sadiarehman9175
@sadiarehman9175 4 жыл бұрын
Which is the BEST DEVICE ( Hand-held ) as you normally use to measure values with PRECISION ???
@JoeRobinsonTraining
@JoeRobinsonTraining 3 жыл бұрын
It depends on the application really.
@clausmichaelsen1730
@clausmichaelsen1730 4 жыл бұрын
Hej Joe Can i use Neutral Current in a Imbalanced Load to creat an Balanced Load, How do i do that?
@tedlahm5740
@tedlahm5740 11 ай бұрын
My power company has a 3 wire 3 phase distribution system, NO NEUTRAL. How do they balance THEIR load? Are they using a Delta distribution system? Thank you
@ranjan1436
@ranjan1436 3 жыл бұрын
I am eager to know, what exactly happens to the Neutral return current after it reaches the transformer from the building. Whether it is further in use?
@JoeRobinsonTraining
@JoeRobinsonTraining 3 жыл бұрын
Remember current it just a measure of the flow of electricity, it doesn't get used up it just goes back around the circuit again.
@deeznuts-pf2lv
@deeznuts-pf2lv 2 жыл бұрын
Neutral is grounded at the transformer so all that extra current goes into the earth
@mariusnicoara2229
@mariusnicoara2229 3 жыл бұрын
What I understood at school it s , the current difference between phases it s wasted in to neutral. But I forgot to ask if the meter calculate that waste as used and it s in our bills.
@JoeRobinsonTraining
@JoeRobinsonTraining 3 жыл бұрын
Hi Marius, wasted isn't really the right word, it combines in the neutral and any unbalanced current flows in the neutral. The electricity bill is based on the Energy used so it's mainly concerned with the current flowing into the circuit. 👍
@StevesUniverse
@StevesUniverse 4 жыл бұрын
Am a young engineer and this video really helped me. Thanks. Umm whats the intro song tho?
@JoeRobinsonTraining
@JoeRobinsonTraining 3 жыл бұрын
Glad it helped! It's just a piece of music on my editing software, I think it's called Black House.
@paulallum9503
@paulallum9503 Жыл бұрын
Sir Oliver’s horse came ambling home to Oliver’s aunt
@jonjon3687
@jonjon3687 3 жыл бұрын
You can also use this formula to get the approximate neutral current: In = (phA^2 + phB^2 + phC^2 - phA*phB-phB*phC-phC*phA)^0.5
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