Agree, the character still had a great story. Finding his body was a tear jerking moment for me.

why was his player disliked?

@@scratthesquirrel5242 Inappropriate Jokes. Even though CR's profanity can be a bit much at times, Tiberius's player dialed it up too much, to the point it even made the rest of the cast cringe. He also tried to usurp other player moments as his own and tried to interweave himself into other character's story arcs as if he was the story's focus. He also at times forced a decision for the party as a whole, damned be the consequences. He also didn't like people drawing/using Tiberius unless he was gifted a royalty for doing so. All in all, in a private game, he would legitimately have a bit more leeway before being stopped. However, this was a livestream broadcast and very much public. His behavior could not be tolerated, so he very much had to go.

@@Battleguild i see, thanks

Is that why the story starts later on in the Critical Role campaign?

Ofc. The character was great, and it only makes it more sad that it was spoiled so.

Take Matt’s Credit away, he did what he did to Gern Blanston.

Because he knew Tiberius had so many fans it would have been hurtful to the show

Imagine if Matt pulled a South Park and ended Tiberius like how they ended Chef? That’s something I would’ve done when kicking out problematic players.

I mean, he did some spiteful shit during the campaign from what I'm listening to.

Rest in peace, sweet artisan prince

I understood that reference

@@cookiedough6733me too.

That's because it wasn't a carefully crafted character with expectations of growth. It was a direct reflection of being "that guy" at the table for all to see. Tib's flaws were Orion's flaws, and the character wasn't gonna grow if the player was gonna regress.

@@PuffyCloud_aka_puffeclaude good point, I think the Mighty nein was an example of such a thing done right. All those characters were wrapped up in their own bullshit and were rough to each other, but slowly opened up and became better people.

@@PuffyCloud_aka_puffeclaude You are kind of not wrong, Orion in or out of character sometimes did seem the same, the amount of "Oh yeah sorry" as he bumbles around game play and rolls is just like the bumbling he played as Tiberius...which was supposed to be a foil in making people think Tiberius was stupid and to cover up mistakes or being caught doing wrong. Which....Orion himself also did with people checking his "homework" and dice rolls very often to get a similar reaction as if it was Tiberius.

True. I always really enjoyed Tiberius as a character. I find it interesting that in nearly ten years, no player, GM or anyone else has ever even attempted to play a similar character. Yes we've seen the players play wizards and the like. But none of them ever actually get into the idea of studying magic and Arconic lore. As a result, Tiberius will never be forgotten. Because he's the only character who ever went full on magic scholar. I don't know if they are actively shying away from such types. But Tiberius was really cool. It was the player ho did toxic stuff. The character was really cool in my mind.

I'd recommend you SuperGeekMike's videos on the subject. It's as concise as he could have made it and the second makes small corrections and clarifications on that first one later in the video. Overall it's a very informatove and unbiased look on Orion's behaviour and tips for both GM's and players.

Nah, it's the infinite sorcery points

The animated series does skip over the entire underdark side

speak for yourself fool

I’m just waiting for the part where they go to Draconia to kill Vorugal, and see the bodies of various draconblood, as much as I really hope and wish they put a cameo of Tiberius there, I also don’t think they will

​@@TheAnonyomusGuy shame, it was a fun arc

@@theultrasceptile yeah, I think he burnt the bridge good with them.

The player did little wrong except suffer through cancer and drug addiction along with false allegations, it's despicable people vilify him over hearsay and him going through rough times.

@@borderlands10 People aren't vilifying him over hearsay, they don't like him because of the actions he took on stream in front of thousands of people. He visibly upset everyone at the table, including Matt, who is typically very agreeable. What are you, his PR manager?

​@@borderlands10 hey man, there's no excuse to creep on women and try to upstage everyone at every chance

@@borderlands10 he was being weird and made the other players uncomfortable, its terrible he was diagnosed with cancer and was battling addiction but thats no excuse to be a creep

​@@tyronebigboned6078yeah sam made some really crude jokes

He’s gonna demand you be banned from critical role until you pay him his due!!!

He's actually seemingly grown a lot since those days (it was like 7 years ago tbf) Try not to mob mentality, even if he was a major dick.

@@Melina_Evarblume_Seelie It was meant as a joke. I am sure seeing what critical has become and that he could have been apart of it has humbled him greatly. However, I don't care. It was a joke.

@@ArshikaTowers Nah, it's completely fair enough man, I get it. I'm just dropping this so future comments don't spiral like they tend to do, yk how it is.

@@Melina_Evarblume_Seelie alright you can get some respect for that

I think you've misspelled Grog. Easy mistake to make because of all the shiny bits and colors.

@@isaacnikolic5895 I will never forget the conversation between Grog and a certain sword, all of which occurred in a port-a-potty.

@@strigibae You might want to step further back.

@@isaacnikolic5895Grog had his moments but Scanlan was easily the MVP at the table. He got nerfed big time in the show so far though which is disappointing.

"My name is Tiberius Stormwind from Draconia! ... moreover from Vox Machina."

Just watching campaign one now. He's a delight.

Matt (and some of the other cast) chewed his ass out and went to Geek & Sundry to get him removed. If I remember right, his other show on G&S was cancelled at the same time.

I think the sad part is that even IF, have to stress the if, he is a better person now, being one dealing with cancer and drug addiction during his time on CR, people seem to only remember him for his toxic past and condemn him now like he's like that. Often times it feels like they want to drive the man to suicide without saying the words.😢

​@Alister Kane actions have consequences. It's not like he's released an apology. He even doubled down and tried to sue Mercer over creative rights over "Draconia" which is why Mercer destroyed it.

@@Mr.Inktail wouldn't go as far as that but Orian is a toxic piece of excrement really shouldn't be anywhere near anything outside voice acting

@@dcsj30 He did apologize and people went to the video and harassed him harder then before because he admitted fault.

Yeah, I'm honestly loving the character experiencing it for the first time. I can spot the bad habits, and sadly I can also pick up on the negativity directed his way. People really like to paint the guy as a villain and the rest of the cast as saints. I already knew the latter wasn't true.

Everyone that does know prefers not to mention it for the sake of privacy. He already knows what he did, so there’s no reason to put a limelight on him for what he did in the past. He doesn’t need any extra attention, especially regarding Tiberius.

key word - WAS

@@BEEFSERPENTwe go with was because clearly we have not kept up with them as a person. Might still be a toxic person but I’d rather not pay any attention to him.

@@BEEFSERPENT defending a man u don’t even know, bitch behavior

​@@dubbingsyncthen why make bad remarks about him? It seems like you just have a petty axe to grind for no real reason other than you're sad and need a purpose in life.

Maybe it's from me coming into the show as an oldhead DM. But I couldn't help but despise him as I saw worse and worse table play. It made it difficult to separate him the one playing him, and I imagine why Draconia was ultimately wiped off the map, and basically removed from the show.

@@piranhaplantX The early crit role was painfull to follow because of tiberius. show got so much better after he left.

@@Srafe100Just what I was about to say. I preferred Percy but grew to love Scanlan as Campaign 1 played out.

Nope, just the victim to a toxic creepy player

The best way to bring back Tiberius Stormwind is to retcon him as an NPC with a tweaked back and no involvement with Vox Machina. Orion Acaba seems to be much healthier without Tiberius.

@@rickyrackey7930Tiberius is also trademarked by Orion so CR would have to pay to use a character they don’t truly need anymore. The show has had plenty changed from the campaign, this would just be one more thing.

That is the thing, we have Sam as Scanlan saying the most horrendous stuff (Roleplay having a shit, then using it to try and spy on naked Pike) which there was a certain amount of "oh god that is too gross" yet he had a charisma, friendship and timing to overcome it and make people laugh about it. Yet Orion just did not have the timing or closeness, his effort seemed out of character for Tiberius, undocumented for Orion in this time (aside from trying to ride Sam's jokes which rode them into the ground) and just making thing's uncomfortable in a way only he could. He just did not "click" and maybe it is as you say he was a "friend" but not a "close friend" at the time.

@@jimwatson1013 Like we've all had those "friends" or friends of friends who come into a dynamic and it just doesn't work. Like saying something offensive/rude/creepy is entirely subjective based on the relationship you have with someone.. But from what I've seen from 1-26 in C1, he's just clearly not one of their friends haha

​@@jimwatson1013 also what I think works sometimes, is as scanlan alot of the joke is on scanlan. When he does gross or overly sexual shit, which could make someone uncomfortable. It ends up with Scanlan failing and getting embarassed, or the sexual jokes are about him.

Ive watched s2 and s3 and just started s1 and i have to say i 100% agree. The way i see it, orion wasnt even too terrible a player, the rest of the cast regurarly fails to bouce RP off him when he initiates it. Frankly im under the impression its because hes a worse VA (by alot), but his RP was never THAT bad. He constsntly expresses emotions and flaws in his character and everyone around him just acts uncomfrotable (at the table) rather than trying to help him adress it in game. For example ive seen him RP outbursts of anger where he wants people to shut up, and rather than characters trying to adress it the players just get super uncomfortable. Id actually go as far as to say he RPd tiberius well. His flaws actually affected the gameplay rather than just being things the players talk about sometimes (which some of the players do and it takes away from the layers of storytelling). Legit, if he didnt choose such a dumb voice for tiberius i think way more people would be sympathetic to him. No one ever got mad at liam if kaleb didnt use a fire attack even if it would have helped them. And lets not forget the guest player who legit killed Molly for no reason other than RP and the WHOLE cast was chill with it. They didnt kick him caus he was a "problem at the table", they kicked him cause they didnt like him. You can even hear it when matt talks to him. Ive never seen matt get mad at players for small things but ive heard him do it a couple times now which is just so offputting. Then again im only just starting S1 so maybe theres stuff i didnt see or know.

@@FootEnjoyerOrion cheated dude. Regularly. He also played the game by hiding dice rolls from Matt, conveniently forgetting to keep track of his spell slots so he could keep using them past when they should’ve been spent and by metaing to force himself into storylines of other characters and take over. Which was super annoying, he had a nasty case of “main character syndrome”. He’s got his problems but he also not the poor victim here.

The real reason is because the player was kicked out by episode 27 for worsening toxic behavior. Both towards the group, towards fan, and for the show. Basically he exhibited a lot of toxic player behavior, such as * Main character syndrome. * metaing encounters. * Metaing to force himself into RP situations. * Showboating during every combat by going nova and calling for a long rest regardless of the situation. * "forgetting" to track things like sorcery points or spell slots, and using notably more than he could have had. * Fudging dice rolls, and I actually noticed him do it in view of the camera once. Lol And that's just what I care to name, which is just what I saw on screen. There is reason to believe he was worse to the crew off camera, and he has flat out clashed with fans over things.

Don't agree with half of these crazy comments.... but this joke was gold.. & should be noted! LOL

The best way I can think of to bring back Tiberius Stormwind is to retcon him as an NPC with no involvement with Vox Machina. If he makes an animated appearance, I think Johnny Yong Bosch or Bryce Papenbrook would a great voice for Tiberius.

Same, I'm on like ep 30 of campaign 1. And he's was kinda funny, but the guy was iffy as a player. And I gave up on him when he stole the beholder horn with telekinesis so keyleth wouldn't take it.

@@kevincandelario2573 I stopped getting behind Orion as he fought with Matt over Role playing shopping for potions as Matt goes "Yes you buy the things, we need to move on" as Matt wants to include the rest of the table and they are a live show with an audience, it has a timer can not RP everything. The amount of unsure looks Matt gives Orion as he makes strange request's with not back up info to help Matt decide if he should allow it....but also the amount the strange requests.

From what I understand about his worsening behavior is he was diagnosed with cancer and slipped into drug use to cope with it. Both tend to cause personality & behavior issues, a two or three years later he started to get better but the Critter community was behaving like well the internet harassing hum a lot. Not sure if he still does youtube anymore since he started a channel.

Honestly, as I go through the episodes for the first time... the group treats him different. It's very noticeable after watching the rest of the table for two campaigns without him. Everyone knows "that guy" at the table, but few are self aware to notice just how they're treating the same guy. The way they have been dismissive and condescending to others over the years, and allowed certain things to go on behind the scenes... I can put two and two together. CR isn't the happy inclusive environment they pretend. It's a celebrity club.

Might have to wait a little while. Actors are still on strike and all. Hopefully the big companies'll pay them their dues like they did for the writers

Sadly no. He was actually still with the group when they first encountered the Briarwoods. Having watched campaign two and three, and only now getting to campaign one I will say this: They treated him differently. Not in a good way. He was a problematic player and the group was hostile about it. His character has been purposely omitted out of spite.

@@ephemispriest8069More like Tiberius is trademarked. Why would they pay to use a character that the show doesn’t actually need anymore. Plus Orion seems better off without him even if he is making noise these days about wanting to make a solo show for Tiberius.

Not for you, but for their fellow player and friend, yes. Last goodbye, after they cut contact.

@@mune_mune I can see what you’re saying. My point is that people are trying to say you should separate the player from the character, and I did that and all that’s left when you remove Orion’s behavior is a rich Draconian noble who looked down on the Ravenites and was nice to his friends I guess. My gripe has nothing to do with the people involved and purely with the way they decided to say goodbye to that character narratively. They could have paid their respects to Tiberius without yelling at the Ravenites to build a statue of him IDK. This point feels pretty mute since he isn’t even in the show on Amazon.

"I would like to buy 1500 mirrors!"

Why would they? He wasn't around that long and he was a problem player.

@@SpookGod Well, for one reason, Keyleth wouldn't have survived. For another, his character was great. For another, he was there for the Briarwoods. To purposefully run that arc and omit one of the cast is just spiteful.

@ephemispriest8069 I don't think you understand how much of a problem Orion was as a player, and how much that influenced his character. I didn't realize it much at first either until I started looking into it. Then I realized how much of an insufferable ass he was. Long story short, he thought he was the main character and everyone else was just tagging along for his adventure. He metagamed like mad. He upstaged the fuck out of everyone and tried to claim their cool moments as his own. He got pissy when he didn't get his way. This video breaks it down far better than I could. It honestly makes sense why they didn't include him. I sure as hell wouldn't have. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/nr-SeM-TmM-2daM.htmlsi=ouxt0BLf-DzAy3Ee

@@SpookGod I don't really pay much mind to people when they question my understanding and treat a group problem as a one-sided thing with one person being entirely to blame.

@ephemispriest8069 So I try to explain why he was a problem player and you, for fuck knows what reason, choose to take that as a personal attack. I mean, okay. If you want to grossly misinterpret what I said and get offended about it, you do you. I didn't say that there weren't group problems, but the rest of the cast didn't behave anything like Orion. There's a huge difference between issues to overcome as a group and a problem player.

Orion took the character of Tiberius Stormwind and went off to create a Kickstarter involving the character that rejects the character's fate on Critical Role and has him going off to do various other things apart from Vox Machina. So, no. It would be a minefield to try to use that character. Part of the reason Orion was cut was because he would attack fans who made shirts or something with "his" character on them. He would 100% go after the creators of the show for royalties or etc.. The character wasn't pivotal in any way and can be cut without changing the story at all.

Matt gave Orion several chances but his blatant continued cheating and his main character syndrome just didn’t respond. So he was booted.

All the magic users took over to fill the void. Scanlan (and Keyleth) specifically because Scanlan is a Bard and can be played as a Jack-of-all-Trades in a manner of speaking.

Naw

​@@redwillow311 Why?

Nah, having “issues” isn’t an excuse to be a shitty person. It’s his own fault he got kicked out. And defending him isn’t a good look for you.

@@Eldrisaur Nah Dudes right. But going by your standards your issues don't make it ok for you to be a shitty person but here you are. Dude was actually going through alot like literally dieing from cancer and drug addiction. That will make anyone go through crazy amounts of emotions. You being a self righteous asshole isn't a good look for you either so...

No. Actions have consequences.

He was kicked out of critical role

I don't think they have the rights of taberius, I think they belong to the player.

Players shouldn't feel constrained by their attributes in that way. People should always just play the character they want rather than try to play the attributes. Otherwise you get situations where not-very-intelligent players act a bit foolish doing their best impression of someone who is intelligent or the like. Not to name any names among the CR crew.

I mean your stats don't really have to reflect how you roleplay that character. Someone may prefer sorcerer to wizard but have that intelligent wizard fantasy, I wouldn't deny then that

@@xRedivivus yeah so that's called bad role-playing. Do it in your basement with your friends, sure, but do it on a huge live stream, and you're gonna get called out

@@TalosBjorn you must be a fun DM to play with

@Michał Dziadczykowski That's what they tell me. Good DMs guide their players in directions that make sense, like how Matt Mercer punished Pyke in game for acting very out of character by severing her connection with her God. That's called good DMing, and good DMing encourages good role-playing

It's in the video....

@@dungeonlootarmory the joke is you mentioned it over and over. Honestly, the video was really good

7 in the parties, 8 in the cast. Oh no, I'm that guy now, aren't I? 😢

Main character syndrome. And a nasty case of it too.

Should be given the basic mercy of not bashing him years after he's gone from the group because we are supposed to be decent people.

His character is copyrighted. They’ll have to pay him to have his character show up

@@Exodus12341And they won’t. Tiberius is no longer needed in the storyline of the show since lots got changed around already anyway.

I mean. Literally the entire table is making sexual jokes all the time though. It's almost an integral part of the show. They literally did a campaign with vox machina vs mighty nein that almost turned into one big orgy. The whole campaign is heavily sexualized and everyone is super touchy feely I don't really know what he was expected to do. Just not join in and be ostracized the whole time. He was between a rock and hard place. They constantly "other guyed" him and it was so cringe to watch. It's probably why he was so desperate to metagame and include himself cause he knew he wouldn't be included otherwise. The constant slander against him after the fact is dumb as well

Amusingly people accuse the player of trying to steal Percy's gadget thunder, but to my knowledge he actually predates Percy. He made a number of devices for the group before the new gadgeteer came around.

Not many take this mature attitude sadly and work only off of the videos online. At this point I feel more bad for Orion.

Why bother when you can let your rabid fanbase harass him for years while you profit off the brand he helped raise? It's not like he's been featured in the animated series. Despite literally saving some of the character's lives in the same part of the campaign. They have cut away from the story to spite him.

Short answer: Probably not, they made it abundantly clear when this was being kick started that he wasnt gonna be in Long Reason. Since the whole reason his character and his homeland got destroyed by the Frigid Doom was because when Orion left he didnt give matt permission to use the character or the kingdom he made in the first campaign.

Watch the videos made by SuperGeekMike and the clarifications made in the latter half of his more recent second video. It's as unbiased and objective as you can find. Not to mention Orion (Tib's Player and Creator) commented on the video with his perspective. The TL;DW: Orion struggled with addiction and diseases at the time. This could have been reason for his problematic behaviour being exaggerated. Outside of the show he clashed with fans about merch while in the early stages of the stream. We can only assume that after multiple warnings from cast and crew that Orion had te be cut from the cast.