Time for Games Workshop to PAY..? or Will Customers Pay INSANE New Prices? Warhammer

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War Hammer Man Studios

War Hammer Man Studios

24 күн бұрын

This Week's Pre-Orders are live from Games Workshop , and its our first look at the new prices... They look INSANE! With Dramatic Conclusion to Dawnbringer Crusade in Book VI ending in pure chaos! This is the biggest month in Chaos History, with endless chaos 40k and Age of Sigmar Releases! #newAoS #new40k
This video is sponsored by CmoGames.com
CmoGames.com Affiliate Link SAVE 15%
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Dawnbringers: Book VI - Hounds of Chaos $52
Dawnbringers: Book VI - Hounds of Chaos Limited Edition
Abraxia’s Varanspear $150
Brand’s Oathbound $79
Darkoath: A Gunnar Brand Novel $30
Darkoath Chieftain on Warsteed $52
Darkoath Wilderfiend $60
Darkoath Marauders $58
Darkoath Fellriders $62.50
Nexus Chaotica $60
Sekhar, Fang of Nulahmia $44
Krethusa the Croneseer $60
Made to Order: Warhammer 40,000 Terrain
Jordell Freshbreeze $38
The Lord of the Rings Quest to Mount Doom - a Middle-earth Adventure Game $80
Realmslayer: Legend of the Doomseeker
Horus Heresy Omnibus XIV
Tomy Plushes
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Пікірлер: 108
@MitWalker123
@MitWalker123 22 күн бұрын
god these prices are insane. The worst thing is that someone had to do the math at gw and come to the conclusion that its gonna earn them money, so obviously there are ppl who are ok with these prices.
@Eidolonian
@Eidolonian 22 күн бұрын
There will always be people ok with the market. But many more who are unhappy. 😢 tbh you could buy a 3d printer if you brought the new faction stuff. Like these prices are literally insane!! 70.00 for a small character pack? What!!!
@MalefaxTheBlack
@MalefaxTheBlack 20 күн бұрын
They’re called whales…and they’re idiots.
@brandonphillips5329
@brandonphillips5329 22 күн бұрын
I’ve been in the hobby since 3rd edition. A good chunk of my life collecting, building and painting. Working on a budget now to not overspend, 100$ a month. That doesn’t go very far! I couldn’t imagine being young again and trying to get into the hobby. It was expensive back then but now it’s getting ridiculous.
@DrogzFPM
@DrogzFPM 22 күн бұрын
Honestly a new player just getting into the hobby. If your looking to use games workshop products, i would budget a minimum of 250 a month. Any less than that and you won't be able to keep up, especially if you need paints hobby tools etc as well.
@MalefaxTheBlack
@MalefaxTheBlack 20 күн бұрын
If you’re young, you’re not getting into 40K unless mommy and daddy are loaded.
@Blubb_Blubber
@Blubb_Blubber 22 күн бұрын
Holy crap, the prices for terrain are not justifiable at all. Luckily I went all in when everything was new and fresh, in fact all my stuff made a return and that's crazy.
@RedSampler
@RedSampler 22 күн бұрын
yeah this pricing is craycray the charadon terrain boxset from end of 2021 had most of the industrial terrain we see here packed together in it for way way less. and they where available for a long time. and now i see what they doing with the conservators container kit, im sure they going to remove the munitorum containers kit as well and have that going to be made to order in the near future as well. and me being a sukker for army logistics , munitions and industrial complex that goes along with that this makes me sad.
@MalefaxTheBlack
@MalefaxTheBlack 20 күн бұрын
Literally just build or 3D print your own terrain. It’s not even hard.
@myrar8708
@myrar8708 19 күн бұрын
the good times are officially over, only 3D printing here now. Not wasting my money on this
@dmilnes7007
@dmilnes7007 22 күн бұрын
Give GW the benefit of the doubt ???? I don't think so. Their greedy corporates thieves who only care about squeezing every last penny out of their customer.. This is the first month I haven't bought a GW model in forever and you know what I don't miss them. My 3D printer hasn't stopped running' and I now have more awesome model than I could paint in 6 months. All of it for less than the price of Knight...
@MonoZeus
@MonoZeus 22 күн бұрын
3D printer go BRRRRR, BABY!!!!!!
@MrGibsn1960
@MrGibsn1960 22 күн бұрын
The only thing I've bought from GW in the past 4 years is a white dwarf subscription because I promised my boy Lyle I would if he got the managing editor job, the new white dwarf model, and a Magnus for my son because he really worked for it. He and I are working together to save money for a 3d printer at this point so we can affordably pay games. GW has lost their minds.
@jchan8539
@jchan8539 22 күн бұрын
They priced me out, the last price hike.
@Shadowknightneo
@Shadowknightneo 22 күн бұрын
3d printer go brrrrrr only thing I won't have access to is tournament play but considering I have never been to a tournament, it's not a huge loss for me.
@wakkru
@wakkru 22 күн бұрын
Exactly!! How many times have I heard that "Then you can't play on Tournaments" Me: "And what about? How many Tournaments have you been to?" Then they look embarrassed at the Floor 😆😆
@shanepatrick4534
@shanepatrick4534 20 күн бұрын
@@wakkru Oh no, I won't be able to play with some joyless whale try-hards
@adampratt6078
@adampratt6078 18 күн бұрын
Even I, who has been an advid collector for over 33 years, have had enough at this point.
@WarHammerMan
@WarHammerMan 18 күн бұрын
ya lots of people lately throwing in the towel, and i dont even blame them! youre always welcome here though!
@KinaQuinquina
@KinaQuinquina 22 күн бұрын
I switched to Kings of War, Deadzone and Firefight. I am only buying some more Leagues of Votann, because I like the models and can use them in other games. aswell as supporting my LGS. I get more models to start a new army with Kings of War, I even might buy the TOW corebook just to play TOW with others using my KOW models. Games Workshop has lost its core values completely. First mock and insult customers and then raise the price. Any bussiness with common sense knows this is a bad idea.
@4Xscalper
@4Xscalper 20 күн бұрын
There's an old adage "a fool and his money shall soon part". GW has built an empire on that. I'm working really hard on not giving 'em any more.
@WarHammerMan
@WarHammerMan 18 күн бұрын
ya i think they are burning a lot of bridges, chasing a non sustainable business plan. hope they come back to their roots, and grow the game, rather than just going all in on FOMO and price increases.
@Bottna
@Bottna 22 күн бұрын
I have not bought anything this year and after latest price hike I do not know if I will. I have a backlog also so I might go 3d printing after Im done.
@nicofolkersma2535
@nicofolkersma2535 22 күн бұрын
When they announced the 4th ed AoS box I was almost ready to get back in. And then the pricehikes were announced, and they removed a couple of armies, so I took my 210 euros and bought a bunch of Fireforge models and can now place an entire Lion Rampant army on the table, plus some fantasy elements for Dragon Rampant. True, GW does make some of the best and most beautiful models, but also some of the most intricate and breakable models. And they're used in a game. Fireforge looks good and can withstand a fall or a nudge in the wrong place. The other main advantage is you're models stay relevant, you won't wake up and suddenly find knights on horseback no longer available for a Knight Templar army. I'm still pissed at GW they took my Griffon away from my Imperial Guard army. Plus it's definately planned that the webstore is closed for the time being. So in short, I'm out permanenly. GW has become more expensive than a high class h......., well, rant over.
@MC-kk8xu
@MC-kk8xu 20 күн бұрын
Is there any way to look at Games Workshop's retail/online sales? I'm curious if despite prices increasing do they still have the volume of sales they did a few years back (say during the lockdowns)? Or are they selling less but making up for this with huge price increases?
@Johndoe-co3pw
@Johndoe-co3pw 21 күн бұрын
The prices they are charging now like 45$ for a standard size orc character is unreal ludicrous and greedy as hell. They will outcast there fan base with this pricing model.
@WarHammerMan
@WarHammerMan 21 күн бұрын
ya its crazy, they have gotten out of control, and as the fomo dies, and demand falls, they will have no choice but lose revenue/net profits, or cut prices. GW is delusional if they think this is sustainable. mass exodus is taking place, and they will feel it before long. skaventide probably prolongs it, but after that, its going to be rubber meets road, real quick!
@JanBaucke
@JanBaucke 22 күн бұрын
You are remembering wrong numbers for the mto prices: In your video from May 12th 2022 about the last chance to buy stuff the Void Shield already costed 140 US - i stumbled upon it last monday, when I searched on information about that kit. The Pyrolation Incinerator also stayed the same with 80 USD. Everthing else: +5 USD
@jonathanfrederick9645
@jonathanfrederick9645 21 күн бұрын
I vastly prefer plastic models and if the prices were reasonable I wouldn't fuss with it at all BUT... with these new prices I am just going 3D printed fully. Just upgraded my printer. GW isn't getting my money anymore.
@WarHammerMan
@WarHammerMan 21 күн бұрын
i completely understand the sentiment, lots of people going this route. as long as you're enjoying the hobby on your own terms cheers
@CurlyJ49523
@CurlyJ49523 19 күн бұрын
They shut down every year at the end of May because their fiscal year is ending and they're doing end of year book keeping/inventory things.
@WarHammerMan
@WarHammerMan 19 күн бұрын
ya the half ends in may, and the price increases go into effect in june. so i'm sure its not a coincidence, to stop shipping out existing product thats in stock, right before they can just make a free 3-5%. its a business, nothing is a coincidence, its free profits.
@fredgilbert2032
@fredgilbert2032 22 күн бұрын
Honestly so many are so deep in the GW ecosystems and suffer from FOMO/meta chasing they will still sell. There are more and more leaving but I think it isn't enough yet to make them rethink their sales model just yet. In the corporate world it takes quarters or even halfs for lagging sales to hit investors.
@Archon762
@Archon762 22 күн бұрын
I got Abraxia and the Nexus because those together are going to be probably 40 bucks cheaper than Abraxia, Nexus and Varanguard separate, I was also thinking they might canabalize the remaining Darkoath army boxes into their individual kits so I picked one of those up seeing the discount. If the LGS a ouple hours away gets Brand's Oathbound I'll get it from them. That's my general plan to support who and when I want.
@helenmcclure
@helenmcclure 22 күн бұрын
My guess, having worked in a production factory setting, is it’s a bi-annual shut down for machine maintenance. They will also use the down time for additional tasks like auditing stock. They may use it to install machinery increasing their output abilities which have been lacking of late. The fact that they profit off this is just an additional bonus.
@mayofrench5170
@mayofrench5170 22 күн бұрын
The Sub Cloister and Storage Fain set make pretty good substitutes for the Ork buildings for Kill Team boards. Glad I picked some up with the gameboard expansion set from 9th edition. The pricing for the Mechanicus terrain is crazy compared to getting the Shadow War box when it released.
@dungeonbrit6766
@dungeonbrit6766 22 күн бұрын
GW has said that black library are not going up but that's a lie as books used to be £8:99 for soft cover and £18:99 for hardcover but its now £9:99 and £20 respectively find it odd no one mentioned this. Also i really can't justify the price for GW, i am a fanboy but even I have to say enough is enough
@AndrewofCaliban
@AndrewofCaliban 22 күн бұрын
They're having an audit, partially because it's the new fiscal year and that was aimed to line up with the AOS release it's easier on the books, the reason they close is they use an outside company to audit and the have to close for safety reason. The team can't count stock while the warehouse is in operation basically
@brien656
@brien656 22 күн бұрын
That's a hollow excuse. When, you really think about it. It's 2024 not 1924. If you've worked in Warehousing you would know this.
@duncanmcdane388
@duncanmcdane388 22 күн бұрын
So you have to close shop for how long because you're getting audited? Who's paying for the damage? The IRS? 😁
@wolfinstedd
@wolfinstedd 22 күн бұрын
Seeing that THE LORD OF THE RING QUEST T O MOUNT DOOM is a re-release it nice to game back out again as it was 5 years when last showed up.
@MrZwergamwerk
@MrZwergamwerk 21 күн бұрын
I Always thought that every Terrain element was way too pricey. I only thought of Thema as a good deal when they we're in a big Box or part of kill Team etc. The new prices war way too high. The only Terrain I would buy ist the sector imperialis Terrain.
@WarHammerMan
@WarHammerMan 21 күн бұрын
ya i was really hopeful they bring back the sector imperialis stuff, as its almost impossible to find. also love to see the fortress of redemption or the old world building/tower sets come back. lets hope they are just making their way to them next!
@georgee9250
@georgee9250 22 күн бұрын
Aug 1st boycott of GW get the word out zero purchases until they back down!
@kellinbray5347
@kellinbray5347 21 күн бұрын
It’s done 3D printer literally go burrrr
@WarHammerMan
@WarHammerMan 21 күн бұрын
i dont blame people for seeking alternative methods, models, or companies/games. GW has done this to itself, and deserves every bit of the repercussions
@Narcian150
@Narcian150 21 күн бұрын
I always wondered what my limit for GW's hubris would be... turns out it's that Brand's oathbound kit. Fuck that pricing!
@ed8869
@ed8869 21 күн бұрын
war hammer man has the best insight into GW pricing - whys and why nots..
@brokenCardBoard
@brokenCardBoard 22 күн бұрын
Have not walked into GW for over a year. About the same time I bought a 3d printer
@thenapalmbrothershq5585
@thenapalmbrothershq5585 22 күн бұрын
Price increases and DEI shenanigans makes GW stocks go PfffLllttt.
@MonoZeus
@MonoZeus 22 күн бұрын
100%. Get woke, go broke. End.
@grantcross6709
@grantcross6709 22 күн бұрын
Went to the hobby store, picked up some song of ice and fire minis. Quality is comparable and I’m mostly a painter anyway. Rip GW imo
@RSBurgener
@RSBurgener 22 күн бұрын
These prices make me worry about the company. If they need THIS much money, for these little pieces of plastic, they're in big friggin trouble. I don't know if the investors have a gun to their head or what, but this is stretching the hobby to the very edge of the breaking point. They're playing with fire. This is not healthy, sustainable behavior.
@striderfox71
@striderfox71 22 күн бұрын
Its not justifiable with how expensive everything they put out is for thr quality and quantity you get. GW is led by CEOs who want to extract as much profit as possible before they get replaced, thats why we see this trend run on.
@georgeaitken2719
@georgeaitken2719 22 күн бұрын
I live in the uk the price for dark oath was 120 pounds I thought it was great then they released the separate box sets and was shocked at the prices
@paulausten5786
@paulausten5786 22 күн бұрын
GW are the most anti customer company I have known. I’m pretty sure they control what’s in & out of stock deliberately for fomo & profit. The amount of stuff that is always unavailable is crazy. I very barely buy anything from them anymore & most of my stuff comes from presents from family. I had 2k of sisters until 10E & haven’t reached it since. Half of my Skaven just got wiped if I want to do tournaments. So I wonder if it’s worth continuing with them & then the constant price rises just keep putting me off. I get more for my buck from Conquest, Bolt Action & Flames of War.
@bernhardk.2437
@bernhardk.2437 22 күн бұрын
For Fantasy rank and File you can Always search for The 9th Age. It is a free ruleset with a very balanced approach based ob the old Warhammer Fantasy Rules. For Future DARK grim Game...I only know mantics firefoght by Name. Never ready the Rules.
@telleryoutube4458
@telleryoutube4458 21 күн бұрын
The only thing GW produces that I cant find a better equivalent for on myminifactory is chaos space marines
@retrogamer1
@retrogamer1 21 күн бұрын
My answer: ANYCUBIC Photon Mono M5s Pro 14K Resin 3D Printer. I have enough.
@MNMasterProductions
@MNMasterProductions 22 күн бұрын
they priced the average gamer out, we are forced into 3d printing if we want what we want now. It is crazy how many increases there been since i joined
@frenfinder3622
@frenfinder3622 22 күн бұрын
GW got me into 3d printing a year ago and haven't looked back. It's a shame as I grew up with GW, but I'll keep with printing and OPR.
@thomasshaw61
@thomasshaw61 22 күн бұрын
IIhadjust orderedtheregulardawnbringersbook andAbraxia,s Varanspearset,AWESOME!Iamdefinitlythinkingabout gettingtheDARKOATHSET?
@bignorthmxo3350
@bignorthmxo3350 22 күн бұрын
I would have happily paid the original price for the void gen($100 usd if I recall right) but $140 is even higher than it should be after the price increases over the years.. mad to order or not the price just feels wrong and I am skipping getting something i really did want.
@JPGotrokkits
@JPGotrokkits 22 күн бұрын
150% price increases are unconciable. Sure it isnt food, housing, or clothing, but $1.87 worth of plastic for $79 is a zero sale from me and many others. They havent learned about selling in volume. Low price, I'll buy two or three, high price, I buy zero.
@danielgeorges3048
@danielgeorges3048 22 күн бұрын
Hard pass on Void Shield. $100 was my max on it. They can keep it.
@cavemanben
@cavemanben 21 күн бұрын
I plan to limit my hobby spending to second hand only for gray models. Won’t have much choice with official rules but if I can get by with pirated rules then I will. GW has f’d around they need to find out.
@pedrodontyoumind3820
@pedrodontyoumind3820 22 күн бұрын
It just doesn't make sense, its plastic dude. Plastic. We all know where GW is sending their money and personally lowering what I buy to buying a small set maybe every other month and I love the models, I really do. But are they worth the price of eating for 4 days just to afford a plastic model?
@generalwoe359
@generalwoe359 22 күн бұрын
4 days! Man, foods expensive where you live. I could eat out 3 meals a day for 4 days with the price of a box of infantry
@pedrodontyoumind3820
@pedrodontyoumind3820 22 күн бұрын
@@generalwoe359 I mean as an example a good burger place easily take half of that, only pre-ready stuff from the grocery store does cost that much. But fresh food might as well cost that too
@astroviking3414
@astroviking3414 21 күн бұрын
MONEY FOR THE MONEY GODS!
@MalefaxTheBlack
@MalefaxTheBlack 20 күн бұрын
3D printer goes BRRRRT!
@rodolfomaravillasduran8793
@rodolfomaravillasduran8793 22 күн бұрын
Man, I know the dark gods have a high demand. It looks like GW wants to follow suit.
@MrJopanti
@MrJopanti 22 күн бұрын
Sadly people will continue supporting their predatory business. They will defend GW even when they cannot afford food due to the new item sold
@hutchy1k94
@hutchy1k94 22 күн бұрын
£31.50 FOR ONE DUDE ON A HORSE. I'd love to know the whys of such an arbitrary overprice.
@MalefaxTheBlack
@MalefaxTheBlack 20 күн бұрын
The why is that there are idiots who will pay it.
@esteban_8224
@esteban_8224 22 күн бұрын
I got into the hobby back in '16, when tacticals were still 35, and seeing it all now? Real glad I've never bought anything directly from GW. They're gonna die if something doesn't change.😕😕
@madrobot711
@madrobot711 22 күн бұрын
Are they collecting money to pay Henry Cavills salary? 😂
@helenmcclure
@helenmcclure 22 күн бұрын
I think some may be saving what little cash they have for future launches. I know I am. The prices are now too high for Warhammer purchases to be impulse buys. Even the most ardent fan is looking around at their pile of shame and saying enough. Too much, too quickly at too high a price.
@tobek284
@tobek284 22 күн бұрын
A part from GW's current shift to political priorities over good story/setting writing, the new prices did it for me. Looking at an Eldar Wraithknight at over $160 US and saw that was almost the price of a good 3d printer. Then after watching a video on how easy 3d printing is was the last straw. Everything just kind of came together. They really need to trim down the bloat in their company and cut prices to stay relevant in this high inflation market, not jack up prices beyond affordable when people can't buy food. Plastic toy soldiers are a luxury item and plastic should be the cheapest sourced material out there.
@thomasshaw61
@thomasshaw61 22 күн бұрын
The problemwithCMO GAMES,everythingthat,snew,isalmostalwayssoldout!
@bopaintsminis
@bopaintsminis 22 күн бұрын
Honestly, at this point I would not care or lose any sleep at all if GW shuttered their doors and turned off the lights. They can all go do anatomically unlikely and morally questionable things to themselves. I am playing more RPGs lately, and fewer miniatures stuff.
@jdelta1014
@jdelta1014 22 күн бұрын
I guess GW is literally pricing themselves out of the market that they helped create. Also, if I do not remember if it was your video, but when they released their financial's for the year, one of the statements was, "We are selling less, but still making money."
@crackedhammer4612
@crackedhammer4612 22 күн бұрын
I shall not give gw another dollar directly until the prices are affordable
@josephmarkese8563
@josephmarkese8563 20 күн бұрын
3d printed models are to fragile for war games.
@affliction6665
@affliction6665 22 күн бұрын
Havnt bought anything since the custodies shit
@user-uj9tt7dl3h
@user-uj9tt7dl3h 22 күн бұрын
No, that's it.
@kenupton4084
@kenupton4084 22 күн бұрын
Luckily i already own all of that terrain. No interest in Darkoath. Easy pass for me.
@40K-zf9db
@40K-zf9db 22 күн бұрын
I'm content with my life and quite a happy person, but F*** GW. Dare say I won't be missed anyway.
@keithbarker1934
@keithbarker1934 22 күн бұрын
The new AOS box looks cool, but I’m tired of the preorder madness. I can’t be bothered to care about stuff that sells out before it’s even available for you to purchase anymore
@KAGEMUSHA-sb3mt
@KAGEMUSHA-sb3mt 22 күн бұрын
My 3D printer is sitting in my cart waiting for my next paycheck. If they were pocketing their massive profits with an eye towards a west coast US plant then I could understand but this is straight. So to one page rules and a 3D printer I go. Besides all that, I want Yarrick and GW went and unalived him offscreen
@MalefaxTheBlack
@MalefaxTheBlack 20 күн бұрын
Give it a year, and you’ll have Yarrick’s daughter/granddaughter to replace him like they did with Creed.
@kensheets9714
@kensheets9714 22 күн бұрын
people are wondering how to pay rent buy food and gw is like let them eat cake...
@sliven21
@sliven21 22 күн бұрын
unfortunately, people will still pay these prices. =/ ill be deep diving ebay and other places for lower prices like always =(
@sgthunt118
@sgthunt118 22 күн бұрын
#eatspit GW
@wakkru
@wakkru 22 күн бұрын
Maybe they'll raise the Prices until only the Whales can afford it...that would also solve the "Out of Stock" Problem.🤔
@MrZacharyMc
@MrZacharyMc 22 күн бұрын
I’m not really defending them but they will keep raising their prices until they stop selling out of the most popular kits. That’s economics 101, if GW is selling out of a luxury product then their prices are too low. I don’t like it, but that’s exactly what they should be doing.
@Lighthawk1986
@Lighthawk1986 22 күн бұрын
A bunch of the terrain has been in the Hachette magazines. At this point it’s the only way a lot of people can afford to play. But it will continue to go up, because in the end, people like you will pay the increased prices while still complaining.
@torn.blue.sky101
@torn.blue.sky101 22 күн бұрын
Hilariously, I cancelled a bunch of stuff that was sitting waiting to be fulfilled. Get rekt GW. 30 years of loving loyalty...Until they became transparently morally corrupt in every conceivable way. Preach your cancel culture all you like, man, they forget the OGs of GW are of the "fuck around and find out" generation. Sure looks like they're finding out now! 🤣 Oh very dear!
@Eidolonian
@Eidolonian 22 күн бұрын
Tbh it’s pricing many out of the hobby. The scenery is insane!! Don’t buy it. For 4 of them you can buy a 3d printer, resin and some kids toys and make even better stuff yourself!
@teammunkeyhead
@teammunkeyhead 21 күн бұрын
Shame on GW. Never forget
@brien656
@brien656 22 күн бұрын
Of course they do it for the prices. Gw is very greedy and they use every thing they can to make Thier things more expensive. You said anounced price increase. that doesn' include the price increases starting from a new edition. Codicies get more expensive and then the new models for those are more expensive than the previous. They've done it like this for the past 30 years It only seems "NEW" because most haven't been in the hobby that long. That war band for $160 blows my mind! Jebus! it's plastic not GOLD! Who will buy it? The rich wantabees so that, they have something to brag about. Simply rediculous it all is. Gw needs really to learn a lesson and sit on thier plastic crack but, too many people are weak minded for that.
@paul80085
@paul80085 22 күн бұрын
Lol @ all the "I 3D print" comments. Nobody cares. Either buy GW or don't. If it's too expensive for your taste, then just move on with your life.
@kothanmalvein8455
@kothanmalvein8455 22 күн бұрын
And who exactly will you play with when most other players are priced out of the hobby and LFGS stop stocking up on GW's products due to no sales or GW's screwing them over on inventory like these past few months?
@Dr.Instabil
@Dr.Instabil 22 күн бұрын
With an attitude like his i guess hes already playing with himself anyways
@Lighthawk1986
@Lighthawk1986 22 күн бұрын
I mean is he actually wrong? GW only care about making more profits every year. Not if people are 3d printing. For example, all the people I know who 3d print stuff locally already weren’t likely to be big spending customers.
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