At this point these comparisons are like getting pizza from the best 10 restaurants in new York and spending hundreds of hours debating who has the best pepperoni

Guitarists use all kinds of weird psychology to justify what digital box they own, what digital box they used to own, what's more accurate, etc etc. In the end all the guitarists I know and go watch gig who've gone through all the digital Modellers from Kemper to Fractal to Helix Quad Cortex, they end up tweaking whatever they're using to sound like "their" tone, the same tone they've had for the last ten years.

I've had an HX Stomp for 3.5 years, and getting an authentic sound depends a lot on setting the High Cut in the Cab Block to match the real Speaker Frequency Response. If you do that, you'll get much better results.

You can also midi the big tonex so you can use a different amp for each snapshot or 4 different captures of the same amp

We’re splitting hairs… they both sound great.

It's not that hard to dial in tone on a Helix. Just use high quality IRs. Tone is mostly in the cabs/speakers/mics, it's really not surprising that it can often sound near identical to a ToneX.

If the ToneX One had MIDI over USB (even just Program Change), I would *definitely* run a ToneX in the loop of my HX Stomp, maybe even two. It's a DSP saver if not a block saver. And you get this universe of interesting amp tones to run, and/or a world of pedal captures, including my own pedals. As it is, it's not too attractive of an option. It'd basically have to be a permanent clean+edge of breakup 2 channels that don't change with my other presets. And that's might be kinda ok because I find the most fun with different drive sounds, but it's really not what I want. I currently run a Source Audio Collider to remove the DSP and block load of a delay and reverb so I *can* run dual amps inside my Stomp, and they are typically paired up from the same real amps, ie Placater Clean and Placater Dirty, Cali MKIV Rhythm1 and Lead.

For me it's all about feel and response. What ever amp or Sim I am using has to clean up when I roll back the volume, and it has to feel right. Plus, the only time I'm at full volume on my guitar is for a solo. The notion of leaving my guitar volumes full and switching preset doesn't work for me. Much of my tone and style comes from pick attack and working my volume control on my guitar and both are always changing as I play. That being said I have both the Helix vst and Tonex vst and the Tonex is the winner. It plays like my real Marshalls ❤ with little to no fiddling around. I also have a Kemper rack but the ToneX is the winner there as well ❤

Is there a way that you could demonstrate what the effect of the helix architecture has on the Tonex? Like does the helix introduce and EQ difference without any effects on?

I have tried this and using this setup currently. To me the difference becomes more apparent when you push the amp with drives and effects. Tonex takes them like a champ. I compared WT morgan ac20 tone match gen 2 and tonex morgan ac20 capture. Tone matched IR sounds fantastic but pushed the tonex felt and sounded a bit better

A blind test would be interesting.

What settings on the loop did you use? There is a “dry through” setting on the send and a “mix” on the return in the Hekix.

The Tonex, to me sounds exactly like an amp. Thanks guys for putting these together. Helix sounds a bit artificial to me. Having said that, Helix is plenty good enough to gig with and has very usable sounds.

Just like watching Sooze play Jared's Black Falcon/with silver appointments, they also do it with Gold Appointments/pickup rings trim/pickguard. Worship Tutorials have the Gold one. Jared was on one of the Guitar Friends, he is the fellow who is moving to another area. Will miss him he was quite comical.

On using drive pedals in front of digital amps (profiled or modelled) - I have always thought that there is a fundamental difference between doing this analogue>digital and doing it analogue>analogue - in the analogue world the drive is actually pushing a hotter signal into the front of the preamp. The preamp will react differently because the input is hotter. In the digital version, you have to correct the input signal - otherwise it will clip and you digital amp will not sound right. So although the analogue interaction can (could?) be modelled once you are inside the digital ecosystem - I just cannot see how it can work the same way when you just crank up an analogue drive and then feed the front of a digital amp? Surely it just cannot work the same way?

imo you can use helix amp also and make it a differnt snapshot and you have you slight differnce in amps.

Definitely very split on the sounds. I think you could easily EQ either one to suit your tastes. I'd be curious if the Tonex "feels" any different? That's super subjective though.

I think it's pointless for the Helix LT and the big boy Helix. But for the Stomp, or the Stomp XL, it's an upgrade in that it frees up DSP and block space for wet effects. I'm running a volume pedal, Bloom, Wampler Euphoria, Tonex 1, HX Stomp. It just works.

‘Vintage Accuracy’ is why builders like Germino and Metropoulos have such a devoted following. But I do think you’re right otherwise about a brand like Morgan or modern Marshalls.

Like I said in the previous vid, there were differences in tone one particularly noticeable, the others not so much, but, at the end of the day after other instrumentation is added, those differences would disappear. The differences weren't might and day. However, at higher gain, I think those differences would become clearly apparent as the ToneX capture is better than Kemper and Line6 modelling. It was a pity that you didn't play some those higher gain amps. And with the Helix if the amp isn't on board that's it, game over, with the ToneX just get a profile. The choice is clear buy the ToneX - even in Australia the price is worth it.

With regard to the comment of drive pedals pushing amp models, I would tend to agree. Now that I have been using the Stomp for almost 5 years I've tried many many times to pair some of my drive pedals everything from a tube screamer, a Tumnus, and even an external compression pedal. I have never been satisfied with the overall signal chain result. Trying all kinds of EQ changes and signal input levels. But for the most part gave up because I was not liking my tone. So I am back to just using the OD's in the Stomp which are adequate but do sound so much better than external OD's. At least thats been my experience.

Tonex amp capture quality is miles ahead of Line6 modelling. Clarity of the Tonex is far better.

I came to say the Helix is better but realized the toneX was the second one not the first one. The ToneX was much clearer than the toneX. Both are very useable. I still prefer my 63 bassman lol

I tried tonex for a few days, but I was not impressed at all. The helix still holds up after almost 9 years, so I’m okay sticking with what works for me. The tonex does have some good tones, but in the end it’s not life changing. I remember years ago Lincoln Brewster used a POD X3 live and sounded amazing in concert. Just my thoughts.

I have never enjoyed putting a modeling pedal in the loop of a larger unit, maybe I'm messing something up but the feel is all awful. What it does is save you a ton of dsp, which is very useful for a stomp in particular. Its obvious the tonex is capable of better tone, but the Helix can still hang and no one including anyone on this podcast could probably tell listening from the pews.

i like them both that is why i have both

I’m still gonna get the ToneX Pedal and run it in a rack drawer with my Helix Rack. Once you learn how to send midi pc on snapshot changes, you don’t really lose much in snapshot tweak ability.

This just tells me the Tonex isn't as important as people think. I just sold my Helix after using for over 7 years and moved to Fractal, which has them all beat.

Not sure I agree with it's not night and day and I usually don't think that with any of the current crop of modelers. The ToneX sounds so much more like an amp where the Helix sounds slightly artificial. However, in the context of a live experience who is going to notice? Nobody. However if we are talking value for a guitarist... ToneX is better. It's newer and better tech and cheaper. The Helix is like 10+ years old at this point and still like $1,600. So if you are in the market skip the Helix. For that matter if you are going to drop a lot of dough just get a Kemper or even Kemper Profile Player. Especially if you are just going to buy profiles. Even the Walrus ACS1 is good enough for gigs. The options people have are pretty awesome. Most importantly just get what keeps you playing because you like it.

Yall all need to blind test your opinions

Didn’t care for either personally - some were decent, but that bandmaster model was painful to hear. Glad folks enjoy their modelers, but I’m sticking with tube amps.

Sooze was that some Superdrag in there?

Seuss playing was tighter when playing the Helix. Or the tonex had more of a jangle open sound to his playing. Hey I’m trying to make sense here 🚀😂🤣🥹

To me it's: "Does it sound good?" And I can pretty much afford whatever. My choice won't be your's nor your's mine. At end of the day I have no problem paying for ToneJunkie products. It's work I don't have to spend hours doing to getting a usable authentic tone.

Owners of tonex get ready to hate how Helix sounds in, 3, 2, 1 GO!

I think that if you can't get a decent tone out of any of those top modelers, the problem isn't the equipament...

Not sure if it's just my ears, but I felt like the pickups made a big difference. I slightly liked the tonex with the filtertrons, and the tele sounded clearer with the tonex, but the P90s were much better with the Helix.

No MIDI on TONEX One is a deal killer for me.

Putting the Tonex in the Helix loop means AD > DA > AD > DA > AD > DA. Can you not feel the latency?

I have one tube amp, 2 channels, two cabs, few stomboxes. I have more than usually need. No IRs needed, no plugins or modelers. Why would someone need tens of different amps? Just to swich between them? ;) You can really spend a lot of money on modelers, presets, plugins, IRs. But do we really need all of it? Better to learn to play many different things than play the same things over and over through different amp models, IRs etc.

I'm so ashamed to ask, but what is a mars astro?

Can you please do a blind test of the two?

You're going to EQ all that "grumbly" low-end out in a mix anyway, so you don't actually want it.

Personally I think the capture technology has a little extra something compared to modelling. It’s not about the Helix, even in the Quad Cortex I usually find amp and pedal captures (by the way I use some of tone junkies)..slightly more pleasant in sound and feel than its modelling blocks.

Sorry, but isn't the Helix actually the star here ? These things are old by today's standards and they STILL sound as good as anything on the market in my opinion. I have the tonex one, and I love it. It's a fantastic peice of gear. But it doesn't sound SO good I feel the need to incorporate it into my Helix. To me, it's amazing how good the Helix still sounds even compared to a brand new peice of gear that's doing captures. Call me crazy !

Tonex knocked out

both are great. prefered tone x but it's maybe 5% better. please put out some more IR packs, they're the best

Hx effects

I feel like im literally insane. Does no one else hear how sterile and weak the helix is? I can actually tell it apart in a mix. It has this like compression and fowardness to it that makes it sound bad. The tonex is miles better. I sold my hx stomp because of the sound quality. The second the tonex came out i bought myself an hx effects and combined the two. Couldnt be happier. Its a dream rig for under 1000.

I felt like ToneX sounded better in all those. L6 better get capture tech in the new helix or in a software soon.

Pretty much the same

What tubes are you guys buying these days? Be a good video comparing old vs new, different brands etc To me helix is more musical but the tonex seems closer. Go figure 🤷‍♂️

the feel with tonex is more amp like in my opinion but both can sound great😊

Both sound great, but Tonex sounds better in my opinion. I own both but use the Helix as a backup to my dual Tonex board, which I prefer. Would never use both together. Helix is the best all-in-one for sure, but Tonex lets me use all my pedals when I want to keep it more “old school”.

I didn't like the gained up Helix sounds this is where ToneX did much better. But yes some of the models and captures were quite similiar.

Tonex sounds more like a real amp to me..

To Line 6 employee who is responsible for the Tweed Blues Bias default value: listen to what you've done and repent!

Big difference… Tonex all day

The amps were never the weak point of the Helix. It's always been the cabinets and now those are pretty darned good. I just want more DSP power.