BRAID OF FIRE

Braid of Fire has to be the best one. Because it USED to be super bad due to mana burn. But once Mana burn was gone? It's 100% pure upside. If you have something with a mana sink ability or enough red instants in your hand, you can cast them for free.

I was expecting to see Braid of Fire, that thing is awesome. Also, now that Mana Burn doesn't exist anymore, it doesn't have any downsides (beyond having to use that Mana during the Upkeep or lose it)

Mystic Remora is a lot like Maxx-C in Yugioh, where it basically lets you draw a card every time your opponent does something that is currently the meta staple, which is why Maxx-C is banned in the TCG (English/international format), but strangely enough not in the OCG (Japanese format) or Master Duel (Konami sanctioned digital version), where it is basically a must have for literally every deck It's interesting how effectively the same effect is much more valuable in YGO though. As you said, in MTG it often better to just stop the opponent's spells in the first place, but in YGO, since there is no mana system, the ungodly handsize you get puts you in a card advantage that is probably unheard of in even the snowballiest of Vintage games.

I love Braid of Fire in Xantcha, since I can just use the mana I get from it right into card draw.

tainted remedy + wall of shards is one of my favorite jank combos. Also, no braid of fire? It see a fair bit of play in EDH.

One of the important parts of Glacial Chasm is that you don't really need to pay the life either. One thing Lands decks are very good at is bringing lands back from the graveyard. So you can just pay the life until you have a recursion engine set up, and then stop paying the life and instead replay it again. Then your only issue is needing to sacrifice an additional land every turn. That, however, can be an upside, as Lands decks can also easily start playing multiple lands per turn, and the problem then becomes finding enough lands to take advantage of that. If you can recur lands from the graveyard however, that makes it real easy to keep replaying those lands and hitting multiple lands per turn. Though that's a bit more of commander value, as legacy Lands can just kill before reaching that point, and doesn't really rely on landfall triggers that happen when you play a land, or cards like Titania that do something when a land goes to the graveyard.

I got the notification on my phone for this but as phones are want to do the title was cut short to Top 10 Best Cards With The "Cum. And I just needed to share that cause it gave me a sensible chuckle.

One of your vids was listed as suggested, and boy it was a good find! Very well presented, and good info! Looking forward to binge watching and new uploads!😅

Props to the high quality production value here. The numbered and named chapters, etc.

Great list but I was hoping to also see Psychic vortex!!! Thank you! Amazing video as usual!

Neat analysis video! Thanks for uploading!

They made Eon Hub, a 5 cost artifact from Fifth Dawn, to overcome these downsides as the card itself makes you skip your upkeep step. Doing this negates the cumulative upkeep costs that you would have to pay in order to keep the card around.

Tombstone Stairwell is my favourite Cumulative upkeep card. Perfect in my Zombie Tribal decks in Commander

I see a few people saying Braid of Fire, but I feels it’s more an honourable mention as the card doesn’t really see play anywhere since you need to be able to use that mana in your upkeep

Wall of shards is also a super strong card especially when paired with cards like tainted remedy

I tend to use Jotun Grunt in any commander deck where I expect that I’ll be cycling, milled, forced to discard, or just plain going through a lot of cards throughout the course of the game. For my decks, the cumulative upkeep cost is what makes me play Jotun Grunt in the first place, not a downside I have to contend with to use a cheap 4/4. Against discard and milling decks especially, I get great value from it since it gives me access to any vital cards that I wouldn’t have access to otherwise after being forced to mill/discard them.

You missed something pretty big here. Jötun Grunt's selling point wasn't ever its stats. It was used as graveyard hate back when hate was a lot more spread out and less efficient. Psychatog decks in Legacy and Extended, as well as Dredge decks in those formats as well as standard, hated seeing this card because it was "free" hate on an efficient clock.

I feel like this list is missing Herald of Leshrac. Sure, it's very pricey mana-wise but has a very powerful and unique effect.

I personally like herald of leshrac, the upkeep cost is taking lands, but it's more a commander thing than anything else. Few upkeep costs are net gains like braid of fire lol

I remember a kid in my school years ago who played an Illusions of Grandeur deck. It was so frustrating because the Illusions also gained you 20 life in the process, so if you couldn't take them out before they got out Illusions, they basically had a starting life of 40 rather than 20. Then with Capsize having a Buyback cost, they could pull off the combo a second time with just a second Donate.

I always hoped WotC would bring back Cumulative Upkeep, but as an effect you can place on an opponent's permanents! Kind of like Ward replacing Hexproof, allowing spells or abilities to apply a Cumulative Upkeep effect allows an opponent time & gives options/counterplay, rather than just destroying or exiling the permanent.

Varchild's War-Raiders is my favorite cumulative upkeep card as it starts fuelling by girlfriends Baeloth commander deck. 1 mana 3/4 with trample rampage and a positive upkeep cost? Count me in.

I was recently gifted a box of 7th edition and Ice Age cards and there were 2 Mystic Remoras inside. Great addition to my commanders.

Unless I'm mistaken, if you have the ability to flicker enchantments that would remove the age counters letting a lot of these stay at manageable costs?

Back in 2007/2008, Jotun Grunt was used in "Blue White Fish" in Vintage (also known later as Null Rod agro). It is a 5 turn clock on its own, and it was never alone. Because other players often paid life for fetch lands and FoW and Dark Confidant and so forth, that means that Grunt often only had to swing twice to help win the game, or your oppoent might have won already.

Aww… I was hoping to see Karplusan Minotaur on this list. I use it all the time in my coin flip commander deck. It gives SO many coin flips.

Regarding Dystopia: I have not played Vintage competitively since around 2010, but I was all over it in the 2000's. It was a perfect sideboard card because it was one of the silver bullet cards against decks which were Teir 1 and below, with S tier being the best. Blue White Fish, Gush-a-Tog, Oath of Druids, Bomberman and more. I used to ply mono black Null Rod agro and placed top4 or better (even winning some) 30+ man vintage events in Califorina. Dystopia was a staple in my sideboard and blew people away the first few times they saw it. It was backbreaking for opponents to see turn one ritual Dystopia and I just paid life to attack into an empty board.

Infernal Darkness is amazing in EDH Mono Black combo decks!

Tombstone Stairwell-- My favorite cumulative upkeep card. It's goofy but it is fun to play with.

Wall of Shards with Tainted Remedy was one of the wincons in my WB enchantments deck.

I plan on putting Thought Lash in my Chisei. Heart of Oceans deck, where I'm running Jace and Lab Maniac to win the game

Psychic Vortex is incredible for Gravyard decks in a more casual format. Since it’s down sides are entirely mitigated by being able to play stuff from your graveyard.

I once used Illusions of Grandeur and Alhammaret's Archive with Archimandrite to gain 40 power on all my creatures. Essentially a blue Craterhoof

I've also seen Glacial Chasm + Pestilence wreck many tables in "grand melee", probably the least known/played formats in MTG.

All the Enchantments are going to be so good in my Go-Shintai of Life's Origin Commander Deck

Some of the things that you missed in this video: Dystopia is legal in Commander which in a format like Competitive EDH feels almost like a god send as it just removes some of the most annoying stax pieces which are predominantly green (Collector Ouphe) and white (most relevant being Dranith Magistrate but there are a lot) as well as a consistent way to remove certain enchantment stax that are very hard to remove for a black deck otherwise (read Rule of Law) Thoughtlash is good only in commander when you are playing a deck that does not have access to black and win via the Doomsday line you mentioned, but i do feel obligated to also mention that the faster way to win with Thassa's Oracle would be to play it and the cast with the ability on the stack either Demonic Consultation or Tainted Pact and win instantly that way. but i do have to mention that this way is only possible in Commander as tainted pact can be pretty iffy in other formats and Demonic is banned in Legacy and restricted in Vintage also some other great but under rated cumulative upkeep card would be: Corrosion, Herald of Leshrac (a bit expensive mana wise but still pretty good), Naked Singularity (is a fun and wacky card that will screw some players), Tombstone Stairwell (for your very own zombie army)

I think the only cumulative upkeep card I have ever actually used is Wall of Shards. It is a 1/8 Flying for 1W with a cumulative upkeep that gives your opponent 1 life. I played it in a deck with Pulse of the Fields so in addition to being a great blocker, it also gave me a bunch of life.

You realize for Jötun Grunt, not all cards need to be from same graveyard. Each age counter can take 2 cards from different graveyards. You have 4 age counters on Grunt and there are 4 players in game. You can choose to have each player do 2 cards from their own graveyard, not all 8 from just one graveyard. I use 4x Ritual of Subdual in my green/black elf deck, and can usually get it out by turn 3, sometimes even by turn 2. Add in an Eon Hub and *POOF!* no more cumulative upkeep!

Opening claim: always a downside Herald of leshrac: exists.

I use to run chronotog and glacial deck back in mir/vi/wl block. Wasnt my tourney deck, but i use to piss my friends off. Stasis and kismet and all sorts of annoying shit, sittin on force of wills just in case. It was brutal.

I just realized Mystic Remora is basically Maxx C

Herald of Leshrac is nasty 6 and a black 2/4 Cumulative upkeep-Gain control of a land you don't control. Herald of Leshrac gets +1/+1 for each land you control but don't own. When Herald of Leshrac leaves the battlefield, each player gains control of each land they own that you control. Especially if you have a way to sac or exile the lands you steal

Dang Mind Harness would be great in Izzet or Dimir decks since a lot of those have cards that let you sac creatures for effects! Or even something like Witch's oven could cook your opponent's big beatsticks

Braid of Fire, was a bad card bcuz of mana burn, but you can use it to keep in play strong cummulative upkeep (1) or (R) cards like Mystic Remora or Brand of Ill Omen

I was struggling to think of more than a couple cards with Cumulative Upkeep that were good. Seems like I'm not the only one. RIP.

Herald of leshrac is pretty cool it’s almost like armageddon but onesided i have it in a commander deck

Jötun Grunt was ery popular for some time in Legacy bc it was bigger than a Bolt and also very likely bigger than a Tarmogoyf. When graveyard usage was primarily Loam that was a good tangential disruption but obviously too slow for Dredge and other shit. Infernal Darkness doesnt shut off stuff like Tron or Ancient Tomb, it just turns the colour black though, which makes it considerably less powerful than Blood Moon. Mind Harness had exactly 1 purpose: card that breaks Tarmogoyf stalls in RUG mirrors. and that also explains why it vanished.

I found jotun grunt very helpful in cold snap draft.

6:17 Same thing ya said about a motorcycle card game

Honey wake up, the new mana logs video is up

Also, Contamination just outperforms Infernal Darkness for the same type of effect, and it effects amount as well

Braid of Fire. It's so hilariously broken nowadays that it can near single handedly pay for cumulative cost cards so long as it's red or colorless mana. INCREASING Burn damage every turn is a VERY viable combo with it.

Illussions of Grandeur was devastating in the NecroDonate deck. Illusions+Necro meant they had 20 more lives to spend on necro to locate the donate they needed. Hated having to play against that deck.

Jotun Grunt is my favorite anti-mill tech

Karplusan Minotaur ftw!

Glacial Chasm just won me a game today. Was up against a "group slug" deck and I would have died twice over before I reached Maze's end were it not for Chasm.

demonic consultation is probably the best card to exile your entire library. but it's too good so it's banned in legacy D: still legal in commander (for cedh), and you can put it in a cube too :)

Glacial chasm feels like mystic mine but balanced. Not sure how exactly it ends up working in MTG, but if you had an increasing maintenance cost every turn for mystic mine, I feel like that would entirely resolve the issues people have with it unless there was some way to infinitely loop whatever resource that cost was

notably, if you play solemnity along with cumulative upkeep cards, it can bypass the downsides of the cards, leaving you with just upsides. A lot of zur the enchanter decks for commander take advantage of this as solemnity is one of the most broken build arounds in the game

Dystopia was created for the meta-game of its time--the fact that it isn't relevant in the current vintage and legacy meta games doesn't seem that relevant to me. Back in old school necro deck sideboards, it was a beast.

Glacial Chasm was also part of one of (if not THE) first infinite mana combos in Magic, as a way to stop Fastbond from damaging yourself. Comulative upkeep can also be bypassed by cards like Power Conduit, which allow you to remove a counter from a permanent you control (without specifying the kind of counter) to activate its effects. You still have to pay the amount for the first age counter, but without letting them accumulate on the permanent.

What about a video on which effects in Yugioh and Mtg are most alike?

i have to ask how the costs that could end the game work if platinum angel is out. you cant lose while its out, but that doesnt mean the cost doesnt need paid. so if youre at 0 you have no life/cards to pay. so would that cause it to die?

To my knowledge, it doesn’t have to be a downside, it just only has been in the past, if wizards wanted, they could make cumulative upkeep: Gain 1 life or gain a colorless mana. They likely won’t. But nothing is stopping that from happening.

Herald of Leshrac. What a card

You just showed me a way to make magic even less fun to play.... Jotun giant in a mill deck that constantly replenishes the opponents deck every turn then mills it every turn leaving them in a perpetual state of never being able to win or lose or play the game.

Don't forget Herald of Leshrac. His cumulative upkeep is gaining control of a land you don't control. Which is hilarious.

I'm surprised Stasis wasn't one of the 10 you listed. First card that always comes to mind when I think of cumulative upkeep. Due to the combo with Chronatog. But also, if you haven't done it yet. A video about top 10 phasing cards would be interesting.

Wall of Shards is evil on a Tainted Remedy deck too.

there is some cards that can stop or remove counters for cards to make the down side a lot easier to pay.

Can Jotun Grunt work as a weird form of graveyard hate? That's pretty cool. It's also somewhat strong against mill decks.

The only reason why Braid of Fire isn't on the list, as I can see, is that you can't use that mana elsewhere. To wit, you can only use it during your upkeep, which means you can only use instants and cards with flash. And trust me, sorceries, creatures, and planeswalkers are more of backbones than you think they are. That and the card isn't making mana fast enough until an opponent screws that up with something like Disenchant. The other candidate, Psychic Vortex, has a brutal penalty. You'll end up losing more cards than you get to play them unless you got cards like Azusa, Lost but Seeking alongside Crucible of Worlds.

wat about varchild's warriders, that one has an interesting cumalative upkeep

i was today years old when i learned trix combo is named for the rabbit in the art lol

mind harness is also a great counter to mind goblin

Two ideas for new video ideas. "Top Legendary Creatures (not in Commander)." Or Top Combat Tricks.

Top 10 vehicles? Said only me lol Vehicles aren't the greatest thing in magic but I find them interesting and may have a bias towards them since I started playing in kaledesh

Does a card like Solemnity work to stop Age Counters from being put onto a card with Cumulative Upkeep?

I would like to point out that while its basically always a downside there is an exception to this rule. Herald of Leshrac is expensive to cast at 6 and a black but has an upkeep of "gain control of a land you dont control" which is literally just land theft as the "upkeep cost." its so stupid

thought lash is incredibly broken in an elsha of the infinite deck as long as she's on the field. land on top? thought lash. trying to find your combo? thought lash. plus anything you cast from the top is instant speed.

Most of these pair well with Solemnity, in case you're running any of them... Just thought I should mention :D

Power Conduit is the perfect counter to cumulative upkeeps, free +1/+1 counter every turn and get the benefits of the cumulative upkeep card for nothing.

Psychotic Vortex is good with Obeka.

Naked Singularity. Nothing like spinning the mana pie.

What about Herald of Leshrac? Being able to take opponents lands can be VERY powerful, especially if you cards like Dakkon Blackblade and/or Blackblade Reforged. It takes away opponents ability to interfere with you while you get powerhouses to slam them.

It's been awhile but IIRC, part of the problem with cumulative upkeep is that it's bugged in MTGO, so cards that might see play in legacy and vintage aren't used. Those two formats rely on MTGO for building a metagame moreso than other formats.

Chasm mixed with a turn skipper like chronatog made you quasi invinceable

I'm surprised psychic Vortex wasn't mentioned.

Mix psychic vortex and Eruth tormented prophet for some stupid value

The point of Thought Lash is to give it to my “friend” with Zedruu

Snowfall BETTER be number one on the list of WORST cumulative upkeep cards.

No Tombstone Stairwell? It is *godly* with Eldrazi Monument.

loved your WoW content and I like your MTG content, but the lack of acknowledge of the biggest format, commander, is a bit sad :(

I've died to trix combo in legacy lol

Ritual of Subdual is a back breaker

Jotun Grunt says"a single graveyard" not an opponents graveyard. What the card intends vs what it says is a different story. Technically, your graveyard is "A Single Graveyard" so I put teo cards from my graveyard onto the bottom of my library every turn.

No herald of leshrac?

Kinda disappointed that you missed the interaction of Life from the Loam and Glacial Chasm since you dived into the Legacy Lands deck

Why is Braid of Fire not on the list? That one seems very strong?