Enjoyed this video? You'll probably like this one then: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/qpmondGC1bSanpc.html

Can you do another tier list of all the armies? It’s been a while and it would be great to hear everyone’s thoughts.

I was curious why the avatar was placed where it was and then the next set of modes showed up and I ended up agreeing on it

I ran taighas my first time the other day and I was amazed how one just casually took out a Vostok sputnik.

Great video! I think Infinity has (or had?) a problem with too much positivity, rather than sometimes admitting that things can be a problem. It's not your list its you etc. My only disagreement here is the idea that points cost is the be-all-end-all for balance in many cases instead of just one (important) part of the units design. Like, instead of arguing the bearpode is too cheap, we should look at how it is essentially just a better cameronian and find ways to make it a *different* cameronian instead (and also change its cost). Similarly, Uberfall shouldn't just be more expensive, but instead look at how the unit has three very interesting and strong capabilities; "four bodies in one, eclipse, god-tier melee". Take one of those away and shift that capability to another bad unit, while also addressing the cost, instead of having one unit that does all the things and is a bit pricier and another that does nothing and sees no play

I think your top 10 list is really solid and pretty well reflects my own experiances with the game. Not too sure about the internal ranking of top 10 but all of them are definitly up there.

Nice list and breakdown. The internal rating within top 10 could be discussed, but they are all up there. I do miss Andromeda though.

"Its not really fair that X Army gets this but others do not" As an Ariadna player I say CRY ME A RIVER! XD

Hey Vaul… really enjoy your vids. Keep up the good work 👍🏼!!! Maybe you can do stuff like Morats or Onyx sectorial Review in the future ?! Thx

There will always be critics, it's not worth letting anyone who doesn't contribute to the Infinity community positively, as you do with your content, hold you back. Thank you for the content and the thoughts about the fun game we all play.

I really like it when you do these types of videos. The title might be clickbait-y but the content is very good because you explain your reasoning in depth. I think the best point you made was about point values a couple of times. Like with Jazz - if she was costed right it could be situational whether her or an Alguacile hacker was better, and that would be good. Other things (like Bit & Kiss) it's more the capability itself (multi burst pitchers + cybermask) that is very strong and cost could be mitigation but isn't the core thing. Yet others I think they seem very strong but they are like the supervillain who seems invincible until their fatal weakness is discovered and effectively exploited ( eg Bearpodes have BTS 0 and short range so go down pretty easy to anything that targets BTS, even breaker combis from a bit further out, and finding a way to take out the squishy puppet master and turn the points spent on puppets into a liability). No doubt all very strong profiles you have put in the list tho.

I would note that the Taquel can only target models with wounds, but it still busted (maybe edge case playing against OSS where it might not have many targets). I personally would put it #1 just for the way it busts the game myself, the non-interactive nature of it. If I had to think of a 'fix' - I would look at something like disposable such as the Jammers became in n4. That way you could 'snipe' a model like many other things can but couldn't roll most of an army by spamming orders into it. Also agree re the Asawira, just completely overshadows any idea of taking the other S2 HI in the Haqq faction which is frustrating. I mostly think that is a points issue because it is simply too cheap for what it does, but what it does is something I think the faction needs and doesn't have in abundance elsewhere. The daylami main throttle point was the .5swc (which was the real cost) in previous edition and I'm not sure why this was removed. At .5 swc at least you are investing and having to trade other parts of the list to get the effective ARO and active co-ordinated piece. Many of the other systems I play/have played do an annual roll out of updates/changes based on feedback and in game use. Adjustment of rules and points. It would be nice for CB to look at this general idea for n4. With everything digital and the centralised list submission system for events should be achievable (though I wouldn't say it's simple).

When talking about the Avatar and the margin between an average unit and an OP unit. I remember when we were complaining to CB about TAGs and other expensive models were useless and everyone was order spamming so it's not like CB isn't getting better/closer to perfect balance

True. Unfortunately. And CB please don't get annoyed. Playing the game makes you feel that. Not one, not 2 games, but playing around a year now with N4, yeah, you certainly feel how these things impact the game negatively. You start to get boxed in, cause even when people are saying they are just doing a "casual" game, sometimes these units pop up even in those lists. And from there on it's not "what I would like to bring in my lists" but rather "What I need to bring in my lists". If anyone watches the video from CB make sure you follow the comments as well and see if people are raging or accepting the above.

An interesting video. Since I don't play much and I'm not a tournament player, many of these things sound new to me. I've got three questions then: 1) How well do the armies that put these 10 models in their lists perform at tournaments? 2) Is there any consensus among tournament players about the necessity of changing some profiles or are videos like this the product of a minority? Not judging who's right or wrong, just curious to know the consensus on this subject. 3) Since CB has wisely put the profiles online rather than on paper as it used to do, wouldn't it be simple for them to update them when required? They could even do it regularly, based on the official tournament results.

You could just compare Asawira with a Janissary, which is supposedly in the similar weight class, but does not have this laundry list of skills, yet somehow costs MORE.

I feel personally attacked by this video, 3 of my 4 main armies are on your hit list (Haqq, Nomads and CA) just leaving my precious YJ out :P Another great video, I agree with your list but would totally add Zuleyka, she has never traded down for me and is easily an auto include in all my Haqq lists, 11 peanuts for just a lot of hurt.

Hey ValSC! I really enjoyed the video. No need to defend every point, we get it. It is your opinion and we like to hear your opinion. For future content maybe you could do some stuff with CJC or TJC like sectorial review and some lists. Catch you next time.

Good list. Agreed on Daylami. Maybe discover should be folded into shoot for order efficiency.

Hey, great video. I wan't to point one thing, that is sometimes overseen acording to the Puppetica. You need to name a Spearhed and if he goes down (e.g. in ARO) the other one goes disconnected. Simply reconnecting the other one requires one full order of doing nothing else (disconnected is removed at the end of the order). And his clear weakness is the Puppet Master himself. But these things don't change the evaluation that this unit is extremely powerfull. Especially since they are a riskfree invest for alphastriking. This leads me to futher thinking how to proceed from that list. We saw a lot of Units in Nomads and Combined. Some in Haquislam and Tohaa. So my next thinking is what dies that say about List building and Power Level. Probably these units are the reason why this lists are Strong. But which armies can counter this units best and do they then have a advantage? As a Nomad player I feel that the units are easily countered by Impersonators. Tohaa can have ways to just ignore these Units, because they don't care about Hacking and can freely move by Peroware. Last Question, what is your Idea where the mentioned conversation should take place? Probably not the forums ;) Here in the comments? You wenn then reply in the next video? I'm just corious.

Man, I've been playing the wrong sectorials and factions lol. ;)

Me and 2 other mates got into infinity. One plays combined and uses all the units u mentioned, the other plays ariadna and always uses bearpod. Little old me plays o-12 and is constantly getting f'd by those units.

I agree puppet being more broken than pupnik. the chimera has to move up field with the pupnik. the puppetmaster is just sitting in the back; and unlike N3 is not a sitting duck (next to its minelayed mine) any more but can activate too. They used to have a special Haris in N3, it was removed and they got +1 B instead; for better (apply even if down to 1 or 2 models) and for worse (does not apply in ARO).

I agree with your list Vaul, you have done a great work here! Does Puppetactica is Top1 OP profile in Infinity? I'm not sure if it's THAT OP, but it's my subjective opinion ofc, also you didn't mention that if Puppet leader (Spearhead) goes null state on the Reactive Turn, the rest of the puppets goes Disconnected due to no coherency with a Spearhead within ZoC, and the only way to nominate a new Spearhead is to spend an Order on Puppetmaster :D So IMHO it is manageable to get around them with a reasonable order cost. (OFC if i got the Peripheral(Control) rules right :P ...)

I fully agree with bearpots and nomads units. Avatar, thaigas they are very good no doubt but still the profile to me that changes the game is the tsyklon for the same reason you explained in Bit and kiss but the fact is linkable, X visor and repearable…ofc all due to the missile bot which deserves a big big nerff

Any chance of some timestamping? I refer back to the OSS guide regularly and the timestamps are very useful.

I just checked the old army app, sadly the daylami didn't get more expensive :( the old one with camo, panzerfaust, and inferior infil was 8 pts and 0.5 swc It did get mildly worse, losing the -3 from camo, but also it doesn't need to roll for infiltration anymore... and it doesn't cost swc either

As a Caledonia player, the 15-unit limit _really_ hurt. Now it's not even worth running more than 4 Galwegians. Before, I would have claimed that Galwegians were on par with the Taigha Creatures: they're slower and don't have DA CC weapons, but get +3 to Berserk, have slightly better PH but slightly worse dodge, much better WIP, dogged, a little armor, Chain Rifles instead of Colts, and most importantly, smoke grenades. But that speed is a BIG deal, and so is the DA CC, so the only thing that would make Galwegians better is their total availability...if you could have 20 units. They're still good, especially since they can now form their own Fireteam Core without Wallace, and can still benefit from Inspiring Leadership even without a fireteam...but yeah, they're not Top 10. And Caledonia can't use Bearpodes to make up for the unit limit hit.

In regard of the Chimera's Dodge value (20:00): 13 is not very high. Actually quite mediocre for a Warband. So there is still a good chance to get the team stopped if the Chimera can be targeted in an ARO (and that's one point why the Überfallkommando depends on the player's experience).

Make Pheroware disposable, why they nerfed jammers and made pheoware spammable is beyond me.

Lol, is that taigha on the thumbnail?

Always interesting and amusing to hear one's thoughts of OP units. Asawira for example, would be my definite top 3. As a haris - the most op of all, by far. The macabre love child of an interventor and Kriza Borac, but cheaper and much harder to kill, with ap weapons. On the other hand, the puppet master is a bs 11, arm 1 ph 10 with one wound. That's all you need to beat the kill the entire unit (~50 + points). There's so many ways to do that. On the überfall. I think maybe it might be as cheap as it is, is because it doesn't have the support most other factions does. Nomads are rather sub par in bs, and hey, dodging on 13 is Not extremely high.. ;)

Infinity unit names don't grab me.. I know I'm in the minority but man.. My north American, one language ass struggles

Ok i understand Bit argument but if its problem what witch guys trowinyg reapeters 8" from them witch forward deploy? In reality it is the same thing but better. In some scenarios they start on half of table then trow reapeters with no roll if they will do it. I think it is even better then pitcher on bit Most of all i agre but im not fully buyed by this part. Can you elaborate? I dont say you dont have right but whanna you honnest opinion.

Ermegurd! How dare you offer well thought out, considered, and intelligent opinions. I’m so offended! 😜

May not agree with all you say but full respect for stating your informed opinion.

infinity has a small community unfortunately and anyone attacking ANY of its content creators need to just stfu. i dont have a large player base where i am and sometimes this is all i have so thanks dude

don't know about jaz and billie that is why

Not going to argue with your placement of jazz at all, just want to point out the actual reason that jazz is cheaper than maybe she should be, and thats the smg. The smg makes any profile its on cheaper than the same profile would be with a combi rifle. Same with Billie. Compared to a flash pulse bot billie loses mimetism and some movement which is why he ends up cheaper even with the mines. Jazz and Billie are amazing for their points but its purely a result of the way stats and gear determine points and them spending almost no points on anything they don't absolutely need. The solution to this is probably to bring the smg cost up to match or be close to the combi cost

Teh beerpod and avatar are most annoying ones for me.

Wat?!!! I am coming over here from 40k... so Infinity is also unbalanced and broken?!!!

Total immunity makes the chimera also safer against outrageous bad luck in CC, cuz they don't need to take multiple saves Their cost is one thing, but frankly the efficiency is also huge. I would definitely still take them at 30 points doing exactly the same thing

Does YJ have anything overpowered?

CB is ran by some really incompetent people, this was kinda obvious since I started playing the game in 2014, it just didn't show as much because community was then just starting to grow and release pace was crazy. But now you see people in charge are desperate to repeat the success of 2014-2017 ( which they can't, because that was a freebie from GW shitty politics in that period ) they are trying literally anything while leaving their main product in shambles. Only interest they have in Infinity is to release as much minis as they can for highest price possible without doing any playtesting, balance or rule changes ( the things that people who don't do modelling or casting in that company should be doing, instead of catching butterflies or whatever they do instead ). Their freaking forum is down half the time lol, they don't even bother with solving that issue let alone anything serious. I hope they somehow ( it will take a miracle unless they make serious staff changes ) turn this around, because they are not heading in the good direction, and despite everything I do want the company to succeed.

It’s pronounced She-skin .. she is wearing a human female skin Good points otherwise

Man… you talk to much trash… GO TO THE POINT!!!

Pretas and gakis are discontinued tho... so my morat army is just chilling with an oznat and a bunch of sweaty dudes