More fairness without the Russians there.

Karen Chen doesn't have the best technique among skaters. This figure skater is famous for the fact that she does not twist all jumps and lands face forward on all jumps, except for the first jump in the program. She is always very loyally judged and is not deprived of assessments of her capabilities.

@@Kholls.s Please reread my comment, I said Karen has the best technique on the Lutz jump. Some of her other jumps like her Loop need work, yes.

坂本さん甘い判定もらってんなと思いました

It was a bit more fair but You young should have been above Mariah Bell. The scoring still isn’t 100% equal and fair sadly.

At first I was skeptical of judge number 2. He gave Karen Chen a 0 GOE. But he/she was consistent and gave most skaters a 0

@@Jeremy-wp4yh To be consistent he would have to give the other skaters less than zero.

It's a shame, she really has so much talent. She just can't seem to put it all together at the right time.

Her lutz barely completed the rotation when she landed so I can see why her GOE was so dry. Judges usually like to give higher GOE to skaters with more fully rotated jumps

@@simpletruth5927 dry🤣🤣🤣🤣

yea its super ugly and it sucks that she never gets any points off because of it

Sooo true!

Recently, I've watched a video of lutz-loop combo, and almost every skater in that one seemed to have a rather imperfect Lutz technique. And one of the commenters called out Alina Zagitova's technique. I mean, it was questionable, sure, but she is hardly the worst offender in that regard.

Yeah, but the problem is that Liza has the best technique, yet she's the least acclaimed Russian skater nowadays. Also, I think the biggest problem with Russian (or should I say Eteri) girls is the pre rotation and the fact that they don't get called out by the judges

People are not criticizing the Russian girls for their wrong edges, but that judges don't call out their wrong edges while doing so for other skaters

@@lamcy1731 Sasha actually got edge calls a lot.

There's no indication that she has ever tried to fix it.

​@@antong1036 she tries to hide it.

This is why they need to get rid of judges and use AI instead. Those judges either dont see the edges, dont know what they are doing or was paid a handsome amount of money lol. Hae in lee was called out though if it was a russian/eteri girl it would have been automatic +3 goe.

@@bobababy6089 judges don’t make edge calls, that’s the tech panel

@@bobababy6089 Sasha is always called out for edge in her flip, the reason why Anna’s jumps are not, is because the choreographer puts those jumps to the blind spots for the tech panel

@@donatageorgieva6126 sasha not always. The highest GOE sasha ever got on a quad was her 4F at euros with no edge call. It was a beautiful jump, also at the Olympics, but sasha has huge edge problems there, karen for example would always be called on that

@@Plaspos euros this year were a very questionable event, the marks were just a joke, I agree, but it was for everyone. There were bunch of skaters with edge problems, not just Russian, they were not called out either

And hopefully quads !! Will she come back ?

She's on her way back

Would a growth spurt have caused that change? I think maybe their new height makes it harder for them to get their rotations in so they resorted to prerotating

Top skaters rarely get edge marks. If a top skater has a flat edge, technical panel call it clean. And if a top skater has wrong edge, it's usually only marked by !

Me too!

A lot of Russians girls actually have a good lutz technique…

@@maouimaisnon2535 They do, but the ones that have good technique are pushed aside from skaters from that certain school which IMO never really trying to correct bad technique.

@@yohanes2034 they corrected Kostornaia's edge from flat to outside and Petrosian's edge from inside to flat/outside. As she's a junior they keep working on her edge

And she is usually under-scored on it. Sad to see the young Russians getting higher GOE on questionable lutzes than Liza's textbook jump.

She does.

@@skatefan9495 « sad to see young RUSSIANS » honey, the Russians aren’t the only lutz jumpers on this planet, the rest of the skaters also have poor techniques and get overscored on it :) your obsession betrays your lack of arguments.

​@@maouimaisnon2535 but everybody knows (even if they dont admit it) that she is right.

Me too, I am just kinda sad that Young didn't make the podium.

Judges? Consistency?

@@brettshair3151 there weren't any strange scores. Like a judge giving - 1 and the same judge awarding +5. Everyone was consistent in their judging. Maybe because the Russians left and there's no incentive to accept bribes

Oh Yeah sure, consistently giving skaters positive goes for wrong techniques rather than having more difference of opinions because Russian skaters are quite special. Even when they have wrong edge entries they have gorgeous arm position, landing position, and step sequences leading to a jump. So some judges inflate their goes in consideration for these is not surprising at all.

@@luceafarul579 so according to your logic a flutz and floop is okay, as long as your arms look nice? 🙄 You're one of those who don't understand the technical side of the sport. It's not just an art form.

Gubanova’s technique is historically bad but she cleaned it up enough. Mariah and Haein’s technique is fine enough I guess but definitely they don’t get the spring on jumps that makes you want to give +3/+4/+5 GOE like Kaori, Loena, Young, Trusova, Valieva etc. To be fair to Alysa and Kamila Alysa always had both prerotation, underrotation, and height problems with her jumps while Kamila only has prerotation problem, 4/6 jumps (not lutz or flip) have great height and she only URs rarely. Who knows how much she would ur with a “clean” practice schedule though

@@Plaspos kamila 4T is huge tbh and looked like a quad. But her 3F and 3Lz are both small and giving them more than +3 sure raising eyebrows and that's not evem looking at the prerotation and edge wiggle. In the middle of this bad and mediocre jumps, just seeing someone take off at 90 to 120 deg (so clear before half) prerotation with clear toe pick is enough for me. Not everyone can be veronika zhilina or yuzuru hanyu or misha kolyada with almost 0 prerotation.

@@yohanes2034 I agre, but I think the correlation between who has supposdey "good technique" of minimum pre-rotation and toe-tap according to the fans vs. who keeps their jumps rotated while growing is very bad. for example kaori and mai have prerotation, flutz, etc. but they also know how to jump from the legs and snap into rotation. rika and veronika zhilina have the "textbook technique" but much more injuries and much less consistency than Kaori or Mai. Karen has the textbook technique but can't rotate. Kaori and Mai are lucky they're not russian or American or else their jumps would be criticized despite their great overall quality.

@@Plaspos yes of course the good technique is not just the take off part. Karen has ideal take off technique but she snaps into rotation too late so she often underrotate. I hold my judgement for Zhilina cause she's still growing and Rika was injured because she trained quads (chasing the impossible Russian tech difficulty). Many have voiced that Kaori and Mai are overscored but relative to the score inflation that the Russians benefitting or the Americans, they're more normal plus they have other great qualities balancing the not so great flip/lutz

@@yohanes2034 Rika was first injured on the lutz jump following the 18-19 season I thought? And didn’t have it in her programs which cost her 6-10 points. Later she was injured on the quad in 20-21 season

But Tukt was not included in this event. This was the time when Russian skaters are already banned because of the war happening until now.

Why are you talking about Kamila lmao the video isn’t even about her ?? If you want to talk about unfairly high scores you have 7 skaters on the video getting too high goe and indulgence on their bad technique and spoil : they are not even Russian. Not this time, friend.

You wanted to say Alysa right?

@@darthvader8810 No i didn't mean Alysa in particular, I meant the 7 other skaters altogether. I meant Kaori getting 80 points with a double axel and a flutz, same for Loena, same for Alysa, etc. Not only the competition level is weak, but they are praised for that.

@@maouimaisnon2535 my response wasn’t for you but for comment above. They criticise Kamila who didn’t even participate and keep silent about Alysa who does the same combo mistake. I agree with you this competition was bad, not only entry mistakes, but also under rotation landings. Hard to find 3-3 fully rotated

Because of her beautiful extensions, arm positions, and high air positions. Not saying the scores aren’t inflated but there are many judges who award it on the more “beauty” side. This is why I say figure skating should have separate programs for artistry and jumps at this point.

What is wrong with it?

@@runrun1935 her Lutz is Flutz text book. And also blade jump.

Hopefully Rika Kihira will be back.

so undeserving

Out of the well known Russians, only Liza the Empress has a correct lutz edge. Sasha also has the correct edge, but she prerotates a lot, which makes it kind of a loop entry. Aliona sometimes has a lutz, but is quite inconsistent and she usually shifts to a flutz. Back in the 90s, most skaters have the correct edge and technique (eg. Tonya Harding, Oksana Baiul, Nancy Kerrigan etc). Even though Michelle Kwan is deemed the greatest skater of all time, she also flutzes her lutz

Unfortunately, she had other problems. But her skating skills are top notch when she’s on, which is why she was the top non-Russian finisher in 2021.

Nor everybody else is so overscored as them 🤷🏻‍♀️

Shsha's jump technique is way better than Anna you can see it without any slow motion.

@@minjukim484 That's true, Anna has a very obvious inside edge lutz but almost never gets called out for it. She also is about 3/4 of a full revolution rotated before she even leaves the ice

Having a flutz (an inside-edge lutz) is very hard and takes a long time to correct. Hats off to her for trying to fix it!

-5 is the same as a fall. I don't think that would be appropriate for a landed, correct edge lutz. I think she was scored appropriately. Right now, there is no penalty for pre-rotation.

@@skatefan9495 thank you. A couple of thoughts. First, judges must consider multiple weaknesses/mistakes in each single element such as a jump or a jump combination and score the GOE accordingly. For instance, if a jump has a long preparation and a step out, then the judge must apply a reduction of -1 to -3 for the long preparation PLUS a reduction of -3 to -4 for stepping out; and thus in total he/she must give a total GOE between -4 to -5 (assuming that there are no positive bullets). Second, A -5 for multiple mistakes will never be as a -5 for a fall because for a fall there is an additional deduction of 1.0 point (and higher deduction starting from the third fall). Third, "poor take-off" is a specified error in the ISU guidelines for which a reduction of the GOE of -1 to -3 must be applied. It is fair to say that pre-rotation as well as incorrect toe-pick action (such as in a Lutz jump that we see in the video by many skaters) contribute to a poor take-off. Based on these considerations, I think that -4/-5 GOE for Liu's combo can be justified.

@@will74lsn The poor take-off deduction has to be judged in real time--no slo-mo. No skater that I am aware of has been hit with this deduction except for the obvious "toe axel" where the jump takes off unmistakably forward. So no deduction for pre-rotation or picking.

@@skatefan9495 thank you

Повод для грусти. Страна агрессор не может показать свои умения на международных соревнованиях

Young You is a useless competitor. An overrated flop basically. They barred the Russians and she still has not accomplished anything. 😂

So agree!

Young fell

As russas vencem porque possuem um conjunto de fatores que não são apenas saltos triplos. As russas estão em patamar acima das demais Skatista

@@thaismachado1678 se elas estão, não precisam do Bônus Eteri, nem de doping.

@@maz1319 primeiro comprove o caso de doping. Segundo, o bônus é dado para quaisquer atletas que executam saltos de alto nível de dificuldade clean e com menos erros, independente da nacionalidade do atleta. Comentário raso

@@thaismachado1678 Thais, melhor vc dar uma pesquisada, dar uma olhada como funciona o sistema de pontuação, em vez de sair brigando com perfil falso online por causa de gente q vc não conhece.

@@maz1319 não estou brigando com ninguém. Todos os atletas competem sob o mesmo regulamento e critérios de pontuação da ISU. Então porque os russos são beneficiados em relação aos demais atletas??? Explique isso

let me think about it hehe 😜

100% agree to this. Kaori other qualities shine through compared to the Russian. Both have the same flaws but at least Kaori can skate.

It’s because the Russian girls started to utilize rippons hands which increases their GOEs because it’s much more difficult to do. Rippon hands compromises your speed and height in jumps because it interrupts your inertia.

@@luceafarul579 rippon is no longer GOE bullet points since 2018. So IMO we started to see rippon more because they're trained when it added your GOE and now they're used to do it. Some even use rippon to fix axis issue.

@@yohanes2034 rippons do give you higher GOEs. It may fix your axis issue but that’s only under the precondition that you have the speed and the height to be able to rotate with rippon arms begin with, which are the major problems most people have with these jumps and why most can’t do rippons because it’s just more difficult to jump with arms over your head. A tight arm on body and tight square shoulders gives you the speed in air. This was something that for example Nathan Chen perfected and you can see that in the olympics. And it was also what Yuzuru Hanyu was practicing repeatedly for preparing to do his 4A in the Olympic, why? Because he knows he has to get into as tight of a body position as possible to be able to have enough speed in the air for 4.5 rotations. In other words, if you don’t already have that speed, rippons won’t help you whatsoever, it’ll only screw you.

@@luceafarul579 the current IJS does not mention anything about rippon or tano. Before it was covered under "varied air position" and now that is no longer in the judging criteria. The rippon arms are difficult for skaters that are used to with conventional jumping arm position. Changing the habit and muscle memory is difficult. But current generation of skaters have trained with rippons since early age. Regarding helping with axis, case on point is Kamila said so herself that it helped with axis. Sasha when she returned with ET attached rippons to her quads. Nevertheless it's no longer bullet points for GOE and a jump with rippon/ tano no longer seen as superior jump than one without (supposedly from GOE standpoint)

She always had a good lutz. The height and distance she's gotten on it in the past is amazing. Shame she struggles with UR though.

Seems like part of what makes her jumps good - the lack of prerotation - is what causes the under rotations.

フラットな人が軒並み見逃されているからエラーの人がアテンションなのが寧ろ公平なまでに感じてきます。正しいルッツのスケーターがもっと評価されてほしいですね。

Российская команда не прочь конкретизировать технические недостатки Камилы. Похоже, она уже достигла своего пика в производительности, и я надеюсь, что она не страдает от серьезных травм спины, потому что она много раз пытается удержать равновесие на оси. У Саши в этом смысле техника лучше, чем у Камилы.

Correct lutz technique (toe-pick instead of full blade) automatically makes excessive prerotation impossible. In other words, heavy prerotation means the jump is wrong at its base and should never receive base value much less high GOE. There is no need for an official rule for prerotation as this is already implied in the definition of the jump and the correct execution of it. It is YOU who needs to show as a pdf file or an official ISU video that allows for a lutz to be performed with full blade twisting on the ice and thus more than 90° prerotation. That would make it an edge jump instead of a toe-pick jump. As for your other point about the "power pull" between jumps, this should also always lead to a loss of GOE since it disrupts the flow between jumps, which I'm sure is one of the official GOE bullets.

@@user-lr5zn3gy4u What I know of the original lutz is that is was rotated in the other direction, hence the counter-rotation at the take-off for the modern lutz. But the old lutz was just a single lutz, not triple or quad.

So many of the skaters from nations not as well known for skating also have perfect jump technique, but get very low GOE.

Sorry. I really didn’t mind them not being there. I don’t care for all the quads. Just beautiful skating.

@@anitabreakone well, if you did care about beautiful skating, you would care about top skaters, they are truly brilliant 💜 But apparently you are too biased to appreciate this. Anyway, your loss, lady😂

@@elenamastiukova2787Don’t be concerned with the beautiful skating I like, yes I said skating as in not so many quad jumps. To me quad jumps are very over rated. They add nothing to the beauty of skating. I could see maybe one and possibly two in a program. And those two being done correctly. Real quad jumps. Not pre-rotated on the ice. But this jump after jump and interfering with the skaters artistry in their program needs to stop. Judges should score those quads correctly even if it takes longer. I think a lot of those who are considered by some as beautiful skaters would have a much lower score. 😂😂😂

@@anitabreakone Russian skaters actually would have the most beautiful skating out of anyone if they weren’t pressured to do quads. They actually know how to dance on ice. Everybody else (with a few exceptions of course) only know how to skate. Yawn

@@anitabreakone it's not bad you don't see ultra-cs beauty but many people watching sports because of adrenaline and jumps are the essential part of it especially when they are really IN the program (for example, in Rika's, Kamila's and Anna's programs quads have their own special place)

Вы совсем не объективны) хотя призываете ими быть. Посмотрите на гое, которые ставят им. 0 1 0 1 2 1 (кроме Каори) И в помине у наших таких нет, им всем по миллиард гое ставят сразу же, если не упадут. Камила прыгает ужасно, чего только стоят ее гигантские перетяжки на пол катка и смена ребра в каскадах (даже в тшт по-моему никто такие не делает) Ну и преронштейны 3/4 оборота.

Преротация это не норма. Как минимум это плохой отрыв и должно понижаться, но никто этого не делает

omg stop. the technique of the quads the russian girls do is much worse than, say, of alysa’s triple lutz. excessive twisting of the upper body, hammer toe/mule kick (anna’s is actually scary to watch and i’m worried about her ankle), relying on rippons to correct axis and get the jump around, therefore making skaters like kamila land on an inside edge (which is not good for her hips and her ankle), etc. the strain of these “quads” on the body is MUCH worse than a cheated triple. your line of thought shouldn’t be “if cheated triples are allowed then so should cheated quads because they’re harder”, it should be “cheated jumps shouldn’t be rewarded because they’ll eventually end a lot of skaters’ careers”. also kamila without quads would not win over skaters with better-quality tech and components if scoring was fair.

Have you compared Alysa prerotated jumps vs the Russian prerotated jumps GOEs? Don't say you haven't and tried to play that card. Regardless bad jumping technique is still bad regardless of in what form. Right now the Russian girls are the one who're benefitting the most because they often get high GOEs with the flawed technique. Even if let's say we forget about the prerotation, how many times the Russian got away with no edge calls (like Anna), UR quads, bad skating skills receiving god-tier PCS (Anna, Sasha). Don't start with whataboutism if you don't understand enough

@@luluna6371 you are wrong, Kamila ALREADY won without quads in the Junior Grand Prix Final because she is amazing and there isn't any 'cheating' until the new rules about prerotations will be established

конечно, чтобы «завысить» уровень чм без наших, смешно смотреть на большие прероты на тройных, когда они же осуждают русских ещё хуже за прероты на четверных.

Эти погрехи никак не запрещены правилами (впрочем как и техника Ками)

@@MsLeLaNayChannel и в чем логика? отмечаться же должны

I dislike some Russian skaters these days because their Russian fans like to make gods. Overrated. They have quads so they are the best in the world ? They lead the world but not as much as they boast. The same is a bunch of basic skills. Wrong edge. Pre. Full-blade …… Some players even 3-3 quality so bad （Kamila valieva, WTH her 3F prerotation ＞220…OMG. And Anna shcherbakova & Trusova …… 😶）

@Christina Scott >They don't want change basic skill issues like wrong edge Shoma avoids Lutz in his programs, Anna has never had wrond edge (it's unclear), Medvedeva avoided Lutz too. As for, prerotation, blade assistance etc they don't have to work on it since judges are't even allowed to rewatch it.

wont happen people like to bully winners if the top 3 win next year then they might get bullied

No ,cause they clean

@@ingai7014 stupid comment. Russian skaters were bullied long before Kami scandal, Anna for example

@@darthvader8810 you should read what Russians write in their comments about others ,nobody more bully then they are

@@darthvader8810 and not to mention their homophobic comments ,NAZI number 1,I know ,I read in Russian ,haters

NONO It was a clean tournament without all the junkies ;p

AI導入！どこ情報ですか？

ネットニュースで見ました。ただ、あくまでも検討です。

It’s horrible for their knees in the long run…

“A Jump Combination is performed when the 2nd jump takes off from the same edge that the previous jump landed on (in other words, there are no turns or changes of foot between jumps)”; if this definition is accurate then the slight edge change between the jumps would render it not a combination (and instead a sequence I think? not sure)

Depends on the jump.

Just because it’s legal doesn’t mean it’s good technique.

@@brynneholt1990 it’s good technique, there a difference between great technique and amazing technique, some who has triples and struggles with rotation with be very jelous of some with prerotation, they would consider that great technique, I consider trusovas technique amazing cause she gets great height and has a Deep outside edge

投稿者を擁護する気は無いですが、投稿者だってジャンプだけ見てるわけじゃないですよ。

@@LenaLight0204 感じたままを書き込んだだけのつもりでしたけれど、私の言葉の使い方が悪かったのかもしれません。 ただ、一部分の切り取り情報のみに影響され誤った先入観を持ってしまう方がいらっしゃるかもしれないと思ったものですから。

あくまでも私の考えですが、今のファンはルール通りに採点されればそれでよしという人が多いですよ。 もちろんジャンプだけではありません。 あと、このような動画が投稿されるようになったのは、間違ったジャンプの見逃し加点からのGOEの爆盛りが目立つようになったからです。 特にルッツは、女子の中で一番苦手だという人が多いです。

@@LenaLight0204 ジャンプも含めた技の見逃しや見落としは、今に始まった事ではありません。 それに必ずしも女子がルッツジャンプが苦手とは限らないと思います。 現行の採点方式のもとでは、ルッツかフリップのどちらかに苦手意識を持ってしまう選手が多いと言った方が良いでしょうね。 場合によっては女子ばかりではなく男子さえも。 今のジャッジングシステムは、「お偉い方達」の御都合主義が堂々とまかり通り矛盾点がやたらと目につき、もう目茶苦茶です。 おそらく古参のファンはISUもIOCもスポーツ業界も信頼してはいません。 自分の「推し」さえ勝てばそれだけで満足な人達も一定数はいるようですが。

いるでしょうね。細かいルールなんてどうでもいいという人も。ファンによって考え方も違いますから。あと、見逃し加点はかなり前からあったのは私も知っています。もちろん男子のことも。来季からAIの導入の検討がありますから、それで見逃し加点などが減らせればいいですけどね。会話を長々と付き合ってすみません。ありがとうございました。

Эксперт фигурного катания,Валиева коралева льда,завидуйте молча.