How do they work? What's the difference? Find out in this installment of Blue Monkey Bicycles' VS series! Like our content? Here is the link to our online tip jar: / bluemonkeybicycles bluemonkeybicycles.com
Пікірлер: 126
@cbf2thinkaname Жыл бұрын
Perfect explanation on the differences, thank you! Also a1 humor as well 🤣
@SkipperPond11 ай бұрын
Very good explanation of these systems. Thank you.
@wtrosado11204 жыл бұрын
Excellent explanation, and comparison!👍
@BlueMonkeyBicycles4 жыл бұрын
Thanks
@javanbirdbluerusselling52856 жыл бұрын
Very well explained. Thanks.😎👍👍👍
@Mishakol12902 жыл бұрын
Can I install another cadence sensor on the other side where the chain is? I want to install another hub motor but Im not sure if i can use the same sensor or not, unless its the same rated motor (350w).
@andryogustavo24242 жыл бұрын
Great video man!!
@TonyEarlsTrinityLawns4 жыл бұрын
I've got a 2009 Gazelle Innergy that has a torque sensor type input. It used to work, but I had the back wheel rebuilt because the Nexus gear hub broke, But it has not worked since then. Perhaps the Torque sensor has been knocked out of adjustment? The problem is there does not seem to be a Gazelle Dealer here in the UK with relevant older bike experience to be able to fix it.
@rbmka562 жыл бұрын
My 2012 Stromer uses a TMM4 torque sensor that still works well with a cracked sensor template, bent derailleur hanger and derailler. I replaced the sensor plate and rear derailleur; PAS was very sluggish and poor. Re-installed original damaged parts and PAS worked great. Is there an adjustment screw on the sensor? Hate to fiddle with it since the bike runs fine, even on damaged sensor plate.
@benji3766 жыл бұрын
Great video!!
@jchi5436 жыл бұрын
Love the 3rd strike motif
@BlueMonkeyBicycles6 жыл бұрын
Let's get it on now!
@Frank-mn4hx Жыл бұрын
Every bike I know has the torque sensor integrated. My bike is the Flyer T8-premium (With 584 Wh battery) The Flyer T8 premium contains 2 sensors. The torque sensor that registers how much force I put on the pedals. And it has a cadence sensor. The cadence sensor measures my pedaling speed. At 70RPM the support will decrease. And at 28km/h, the motor will stop assisting. I can easily determine my speed by driving in a certain gear. My bike is equipped with a Shimano NEXUS-8.
@frankpatricklennarz15196 жыл бұрын
Very Good video
@lewchaney2138 Жыл бұрын
I know my comment here is a little late on this video but I'm relatively new to e-biking, and dealing with wanting to pedal along with my hub motor only to realize I mostly can even pedal fast enough to add value I now have a question about an obvious short coming of all e-bike controllers and displays. I've recently ordered new front and rear gear sets for my 24 speed mountain bike to allow me to give pedaling value back to my motors energy use. As I researched the gearing ratio options, all knowledgeable bike riders recommend shifting decisions based on your pedaling cadence RPM's. There are even cadence RPM monitors marketed to bikers to assist with shifting decisions. So here's my question, why do none of the e-bike controller displays show cadence RPM? It is very important information that could be displayed, but is totally overlooked.
@JustinJJHCS14 жыл бұрын
I have a solid magnet disk and I think a 2 piece crank I am assuming I install on the Sprocket side... and not on the other side like the Split-ring dose otherwise I would have to take the pedal off and slide the Disk down the shaft.... my kit came from china with zero instructions I worked out the critical wiring by process of elimination but I still have about 3 plugs I am unsure of...
@Freight_Train4 жыл бұрын
Great info. Thanks.
@whatsnext8696 Жыл бұрын
I have the cadence system. I enjoy it a lot but I do not like the feeling of peddling air. I can get a high enough gear to out peddle the motor. And I'm not sure if it's the sensor or the motor, but when I have it turned off riding like a normal bike, the motor seem cause drag slowing me down. Great video, thanks for the information!
@calvinstewardjr45757 ай бұрын
It’s called ghost pedaling it doesn’t feel like you’re in control that’s one thing I don’t like
@jeetrana55196 жыл бұрын
From where I can find torque based sensor ?
@MarkSmith-js2pu24 күн бұрын
I love my class 3 cadence with a thumb throttle.
@jrnamida54703 жыл бұрын
I have a small motor 250 watts, on a single speed belt drive that uses a cadence system. I discovered my cadence slows down on hills and long inclines, and that sends a signal to the motor I want less power assist. I did not know I need a Torque Sensor when I purchased my e-bike. I am guessing if I had a 1,000 watt motor with a throttle it would not matter, but my motor should provide some assistance...
@michaellogue35679 ай бұрын
Hi, great explanation, I have a 2015 BH Easy Motion Jumper mountain bike and can’t work out how to clear an error 3 from my controller and I have been told that it could be the torque sensor or the battery but I having difficulty finding someone on Sydney Australia that can assist me. Do you have any thoughts on this issue based on your knowledge and experience. Thanks and would appreciate any advice you can give. Cheers
@wtrosado11204 жыл бұрын
Does the kclamber torque Sensor also double as a torque cam preventing the hub motor from spinning out of the rear drop outs. I have a 1000w gearless Front hub motor which tore my front forks apart even with torque cam installed. I am considering a rear 1000w instead. They tell me that the rear dropouts are considerably stronger than the front ones.
@BlueMonkeyBicycles4 жыл бұрын
You'll need a torque arm to prevent ripping apart the dropouts, yes. I don't believe the torque sensor acts as one.
@cwoolfork06 Жыл бұрын
My ebike has a torque sensor. It's a Bolton Blackbird. It has a 25 amp KT controller and am thinking of upgrading to a 35 amp KT controller. My question is, will my torque sensor still function? I'm assuming staying with a KT controller is necessary.
@robertmiedel41042 ай бұрын
I have the cadence sensor on mine. It feels like being in cruise control because mine seems to be based on speed. I set it at pas 3 and it essentially provides enough power to go about 11.5-12.5 mph when you are pedaling. If you pedal hard you go more towards the top of the range and if you pedal lightly you’ll go more to the bottom of the range. It’s fine for the bike trail where it’s nice to cruise along at a constant speed but I think in general the torque sensor is probably better and more natural. I don’t have any experience with it though.
@BlueMonkeyBicycles2 ай бұрын
Cruise control is a good way to describe the feeling.
@config20006 жыл бұрын
Mine is cadence and it does not kick in until a quarter turn or so turn of the pedals. This is actually good because it avoids unwanted false starts, like when you are moving really slowly and only need to nudge the pedals.
@smallhatshatethetruth79332 жыл бұрын
I use my rear brake lever like a clutch, slight touch and it cuts the motor
@SkipperPond11 ай бұрын
Good idea.
@mkygod Жыл бұрын
I test road some bikes recently and found that Cadence sensor on some bikes kick in suddenly at slow speed when i start pedaling; especially if im already in a low gear where there is more pedaling motion. I don't like that jerky motion. To counter-act this, i would have to start the bike at a high gear to slow the rotation or ghost pedal slowly, which is a bit counter-intuitive.
@yttean986 жыл бұрын
Very good explanation.. make more videos.
@BlueMonkeyBicycles6 жыл бұрын
Thanks! Please share this video with all your friends. The more popular I get the more resources I have to make more.
@mick2d24 жыл бұрын
Great explanation, thanks.
@colinwatkins29502 жыл бұрын
i have a 12 magnet cadence peddle assist and it serves my fine,had no problem with it to date.
@davehumphreys17255 жыл бұрын
Hi. One question if I may. Is it possible to replace a cadence PAS with a torque system? Would the electronic control unit have to be changed too?
@BlueMonkeyBicycles5 жыл бұрын
The controller would have to change, yes. Mounting a torque sensor is much harder than mounting a cadence disc.
@michaelpicozzi39104 жыл бұрын
Great now I know the difference
@Pavlos.Pavlou Жыл бұрын
@Blue Monkey Bicycles Which electric motor for eBikes has 10-16kg/m torque and Top Speed not more than 50km/h;
@WindFireAllThatKindOfThing5 жыл бұрын
I'm on a Torque sensing ride with a 7 speed casette, and it's fine for what it's meant to do: commute long distances at a regular pace regardless of the terrain. But, I also ride a BMX, and my town is filled with Fixie fanatics. For that kind of rider with no gears to go through, the Cadence assist makes more sense because it shares the same virtues: Simplicity, durability, and it's cheap. When I look at Lithium's little Super 73 Z, I see a BMX eBike. It's a single speed, fat tired, flickable bike with no fancy shenanigans. But they left pedal assist out to entice buyers with a low sticker price, so you either pedal or you run pure throttle. I can understand that's the cheap way to go, but a simple, cheap Cadence assist toggle would have gone a long way by getting more distance out of a very anemic battery. It would be brainless, bulletproof and cheap, which is why many people ride fixed gear bikes in the first place. That's about the only scenario when I could see a pure Cadence triggered motor making the most sense.
@pinkminjae4 жыл бұрын
I returned my aventon ebike because as soon as I push on the pedal, the bike will shoot forward super fast and I didn't feel safe. That must have been torque sensor right? If I want more of a slow subtle boost, I should get the cadence? Did I understand it right?
@BlueMonkeyBicycles4 жыл бұрын
The torque sensor was probably out of tune. It can be fixed, but it's a specialty fix, and it's not easy. Cadence sensors are more reliable, in my experience.
@bensondevera31042 жыл бұрын
I'm planning to install pedal assist on my bike but I don't have a diagram for the connection of pedal assist sensor, the battery and motor. I appreciate if you can provide me a diagram.. thank you
@Simon673162 жыл бұрын
Isn't it the case that if you have a torque system with a 4mph 'walk mode' and you keep this pressed while rotating the crank with minimal effort the motor will give you full power just like the cadence system? thats what i read on the Wisper website anyway.
@johnjuza26593 жыл бұрын
You talk about the torque sensor in the back about being set to high or low? My torque sensor has a small gap between it and the small cog. This is my second torque sensor. It has 3 bolts holding it on, I see no where that you can set them?? Thanks for the video. I have a surface 604 Shred.
@BlueMonkeyBicycles3 жыл бұрын
How old is the bike?
@garyderoy Жыл бұрын
So, I can't find even 1 video that answers this question. Does a cadence sensing system actually sense cadence? Or, does it simply sense movement? IOW, does pedaling faster or slower increase the amount of pedal assist or is it only the PAS setting that does that?
@dyslexiksteve24886 жыл бұрын
I fitted a kit to my bike and I have a question about the voltage dropping off when you get to about 25mph. Its a hub 500w motor and I have turned the limiter off. I notice the voltage starts dropping off around 23mph and by 27mph I am on my own. 23 is fast enough but I would just like to know if this is normal. I assume the motor cannot spin any faster and stops asking for power but would just like to know
@alt5726 жыл бұрын
Unless your motor has a limiter, it's actually your battery sagging under the load.
@Jonmc5114 жыл бұрын
I have that same problem and thought that.. is riding with the sag bad on the battery?
@dyslexiksteve24884 жыл бұрын
@@Jonmc511 since my bike was impounded by the police after they caught me at 25 miles an hour. This is not a problem anymore😢. I tried to argue that this was under my own power but just assisted up to 23 miles an hour but they didn't believe me. Before this I did take the battery apart and it was not as big as the label stated. I think if I had added two more cells to each of the series batteries , I would have had no problem. However I am still waiting to get it back.
@saguilar6599 Жыл бұрын
I appreciate a lot your video. Glad you asked if we need a video of any related subject. I do, 😅. Can you make a video where you help us diyérs find the right controller for adding the torque sensor function?, to my limited understanding of robotics and motion control, the torque sensor is like an analog signal which is actually converted to digital but it’s a dynamic signal, variable. On the other hand the cadence sensor is just a digital I/O signal. I see Kelly controllers have both options but it seems like you give up the display for some reason, at least the ones capable of reading torque, and the only one with display is the KLS model but their specs don’t mention torque sensor capability. KT mentions torque sensor imitation, that confuses me. My bad not contacting them and asking, it’s a bad habit I have to waste time challenging myself to find the answers, but here I’m , I guess I gave up LOL. Thanks bro.
@robertneveil48611 ай бұрын
I have a Himiway Cruiser with a cadence sensor and it rides perfect with no delays and it is very smooth with plenty of power. I love it. I also have a Himiway Bigdog with a cadence sensor and it has such a long delay and the motor stays on after you stop pedaling for a full 2 seconds if not longer which I find it to be a safety hazzard. I hate it. Does anyone know how to get rid of this delay? Thankyou.
@parastools4 жыл бұрын
Thanks Mike for explaning this booth system, i want to know fromyou that which make torque sensor is you have show in video, please replay comment soon, thanks again mike
@BlueMonkeyBicycles4 жыл бұрын
The company that makes the torque sensor is called: kclamber
@lisbonbikerentals62074 жыл бұрын
@@BlueMonkeyBicycles BTW do you know how to adjust the torque sensor? We have notice some of our bikes with different pedal sensitive. On kclamber website and we would like to know more about this Tq sensor. Many thanks and great work.
@BlueMonkeyBicycles4 жыл бұрын
You'd have to ask kclamber for more details. I have a KZfaq video about them, it might have a contact email on the description. I know how to adjust the old TMM sensors from bikes around 2014-2017
@lisbonbikerentals62074 жыл бұрын
@@BlueMonkeyBicycles alright! ✌️ 😎best love from Lisbon💕
@PhotoStrider3 жыл бұрын
How do you adjust the older TMM torque sensors? Thanks for the video 😀
@windcheetah23 жыл бұрын
Hi Mike, could you tell me the maker of that alum Torque sensor in your video? Is that a rear dropout?
@BlueMonkeyBicycles3 жыл бұрын
Tmm is what I've heard it called
@windcheetah23 жыл бұрын
Thanks, I found it on KZfaq TMM4 Gen2 torque sensor.
@brocluno015 жыл бұрын
TQ sensing. It's what I feel best with ...
@BlueMonkeyBicycles5 жыл бұрын
Me too
@mikk019758 ай бұрын
That's not even a discussion, because torque is the only way
@samantha65542 жыл бұрын
I have tried out a few ebikes in my quest to buy one, I need to excersize my ankle but so fat each bike I have tried has taken over and left me with inadequate excersize, is this because the bikes I have tested are candence?
@BlueMonkeyBicycles2 жыл бұрын
That sounds about right. Call around to some local shops and see if they have any bikes powered by the following: Bosch Shimano Yamaha Specialized Trek eBike (Bosch) Giant eBike (Yamaha) Bafang M600 Bafang M620 (often called the Bafang ultra motor)
@sambananas45136 жыл бұрын
Great video. Do you know what type of sensor the BaFang BBSHD has? Thanks.
@nettoyageadriance6 жыл бұрын
Sam Bananas Pretty sure it's a cadence sensor.
@javanbirdbluerusselling52856 жыл бұрын
Yes. It has only the cadence sensor. I heard talk they may incorporate a torque sensor for it though.
@nettoyageadriance6 жыл бұрын
Man, really? That would be amazing! Great reviews on the BBS02 and BBSHD. I'm looking to purchase the HD in the spring for my folding 20 inch fatbike. (Voltbike - Mariner)
@obsidian662 жыл бұрын
@@nettoyageadriance the enumerated nerd guy has a video, “what bike not to convert”, he mentions folding bikes as not the bike to convert evoke. Search for it
@nettoyageadriance2 жыл бұрын
@@obsidian66 Thanks but I already did the deed. I used it with the BBSHD at 1000 watts for about a year and then resold it. It held up surprisingly well 👍
@Thimo985 жыл бұрын
Don't climb using high gears! :)
@calvinstewardjr45757 ай бұрын
Does anyone know how to eliminate ghosts padaling on e-bike Is their way to change the bracket to stop it does anyone know the answer of this issue
@mrsafe37013 жыл бұрын
Hello, how to calibrate torq sensor ?
@BlueMonkeyBicycles3 жыл бұрын
Depends on the sensor
@user-xk1dh3ps6j3 жыл бұрын
I purchased Bafang kit with 350W 36v front hub motor on ebay, last Christmas smog was coming out from controller and wires got melted together on it due to i drilled holes in the bike frame to hide wires and bike frame was shorting time to time some wires. I was not able to pull out melted wires but i removed controller. I was visiting many bike repair shops to fing controller match due to the missing label on original controller. finally i left my burned controller in one bike shop so if they will get across it they would keep me posted. Bike shop now telling me since i left controller for 5 month and did not call them they disposed it. So now i have torque speed sensor which has 6pins round connector and only used 5 wires (orange, white, purple, brown ,black). Pedals needs to be installed on both sides of the sensor. Right side of the torque sensor has chrome washer with written number on it (
@BlueMonkeyBicycles3 жыл бұрын
This sounds like a problem that KZfaq comments cannot solve.
@universal75646 жыл бұрын
tq
@gruilen5 ай бұрын
Stromer, torque. You often need to recalibrate with temperature differences. It doesn't work smoothly and is a weak point in terms of reliability.
@TOBORE8THMAN6 жыл бұрын
Cadence WITH Throttle
@BlueMonkeyBicycles6 жыл бұрын
That's a pretty common setup for cheaper bikes.
@KaneLono4 жыл бұрын
I agree. I've had both types and this seems to be the best combination. Its the most intuitive and long lasting.
@patprop745 ай бұрын
I know this video is a few years old, but perhaps someone out there can answer this, Is a torque system any good in colder and slushy to snow weather areas such as in Canada where it is snow one minute and slush and rain the next
@BlueMonkeyBicycles5 ай бұрын
For pedal assist, I would do a torque sensor in that environment, only because the power output is more predictable. Throttle power is more predictable still, and with throttle you can lower the seat to improve balance and stick your legs out during real slippery patches. There are plenty of bikes that have torque sensors and throttle, so you can have one bike that you can use year round.
@patprop745 ай бұрын
@@BlueMonkeyBicycles Thank you for the swift reply and your input, very apricated. My e-bike is already equipped with a throttle, but I do find myself using peddle assist more, the only thing with my peddle assist is when snow and slush accumulate between the magnet disk and senor, it stops working altogether, at least till I can bring the bike inside and let it fully dry off then it works again. I am just worried the torque sensor will jam up in those conditions, just like the derailer does, I have to constantly oil it or it jams up... " you can lower the seat to improve balance and stick your legs" haha that is a problem, my bike has a 20" ride height which is made for people from 5'5" to 6'3" tall and I'm only 5 foot short haha.
@BlueMonkeyBicycles3 ай бұрын
A lot of new bikes have sensors that are totally enclosed, both on cadence and torque sensing varieties. I'll make a quick video about this soon. Be sure to subscribe
@user-zx9yy6lu9p5 ай бұрын
wonder if I have a torque sensor on my bafang 250w rear hub motor,I have the Candace pedal assist but not sure on the torque anyone please.
@BlueMonkeyBicycles5 ай бұрын
Is it a kit installed on the bike, or a ready made eBike?
@user-zx9yy6lu9p5 ай бұрын
@@BlueMonkeyBicycles ready made bike. knaap AMS
@BlueMonkeyBicycles5 ай бұрын
Their website doesn't specify, so it's likely a cadence sensor. Tilt the bike on the kickstand so that the rear wheel is off the ground, then pedal the bike by hand. If the assist kicks in and keeps going as you pedal, then you've got a cadence sensor. Be sure to grab the brakes before putting it down
@Bruce.B6 жыл бұрын
So, Can we trigger Cadence Pedal Assist by padalling backwards? It could make hill climbing and starts easier
@airgunny74165 жыл бұрын
no, atleast never on any of the bikes ive owned
@tomatojuice124 жыл бұрын
Can anybody comment if it's worth $700 more to get a torque based system for the Juiced Hyper Scorpion vs a regular Scorpion which just has a cadence?
@BlueMonkeyBicycles4 жыл бұрын
I think it has other upgrades, doesn't it?
@tomatojuice124 жыл бұрын
@@BlueMonkeyBicycles Yes it does, bigger battery, rear mirror, and other stuff I think. But the big one is the Torque sensor/cadence upgrade.
@SinisterAngel13 жыл бұрын
@@tomatojuice12 Silly question, do you know where to plug in that cable of that cadence / torque sensor?
@tomatojuice123 жыл бұрын
@@SinisterAngel1 Sorry, I don't know the answer to your question.
@SinisterAngel13 жыл бұрын
@@tomatojuice12 Thanks for responding. Juiced bikes sent me the wrong one. It's incompatible with the Scorpions controller.
@leonamoonslasher70704 жыл бұрын
Do you love 3rd Strike?
@BlueMonkeyBicycles4 жыл бұрын
We all should.
@Hellmiauz2 жыл бұрын
I have cadence. I hate it. I also have a throttle to help me uphill when the PAS doesn't kick in. But i wish it was automatic.
@BlueMonkeyBicycles2 жыл бұрын
Sorry to hear that
@fitapresh67862 жыл бұрын
I have no installation pedal assist on my bike
@3LECTROSHOCKED3 жыл бұрын
use regular on mine ebikes, but sometimes need to cut pedal side down a bit, so that magnets have clearance. BUT, what if there is no PAS input on controller? I figured out a way around that, check out if interested -> kzfaq.info/get/bejne/mdllddCSu7updGg.html
@longrider424 жыл бұрын
I have a Cadence based system. E-bikekits.com. A Direct Drive hub motor on my front wheel. Works great.
@BlueMonkeyBicycles4 жыл бұрын
Let's hope it stays that way. The domain is down
@johnd90312 жыл бұрын
Tried a cadence system and did not like it.
@solo6364 жыл бұрын
Why @ 3:46 he asks which is best, and responds with hopefully all bikes in the future have both, smh. IDK was he asking us for our opinion.
@BlueMonkeyBicycles4 жыл бұрын
You took the bait and made a comment. Now my channel will grow a tiny bit more. HAHAHA!
@solo6364 жыл бұрын
@@BlueMonkeyBicycles 😂😂😂
@scottrocks1993 Жыл бұрын
I didn't watch the video. But this video is about pedal assist & torque sensors. so why does the pic of the video have a torque arm & a pedal assist sensor. They have nothing to do with each other.
@BlueMonkeyBicycles Жыл бұрын
If you watched the video, you would see that the thumbnail isn't a torque arm. It's a TMM torque sensor, still used on some eBikes (even though it's kind of old by now). I custom made an animation to show how it works. Let me know what you think, after watching.
@DisdainOnHastings Жыл бұрын
Lol I need you desperately I have all of my original parts just need them to be put back on I live in Vancouver and had my E bike custom made 5 years ago I didn't know at the time it wasn't the one guy whm he made me believe was doing all the work So when I had an accident not my fault he was clueless to my repairs since then I've spent thousands and got one Bozo after another one the worst a friend who built his took a fuckin piece of my vacuum sorry for the language but that whole fiasco costed me $500 from yet another Bozo who gave me all different parts I have my original out of the box parts yet NOBODY can that I can find a person would make. Killing out here nwith that kinda knowledge I've got so much invested I just wanna fix it and restore back to original if you know anyone?lol
@voyager44096 жыл бұрын
im 1st liker to this video
@georgemccune85026 жыл бұрын
RadRover Rad Wagon, 12 magnet cadence sensor, quick to get going with 12 magnets. Throttle also which overrides pedals. Great Video
@phildimarino42205 жыл бұрын
will a PAS work with a front hub motor?
@BlueMonkeyBicycles5 жыл бұрын
Yes. There's a lot of trike kits that do exactly that.
@phildimarino42205 жыл бұрын
thank you, a couple of hints as to which ones, thanks again