Toyota responds to furious Hydrogen car customers who are 'living a nightmare'
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Ай бұрынToyota responds to furious Hydrogen car customers who are 'living a nightmare'
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@matthieucharlier4257 Ай бұрын
I saw videos of Mirai owner paying up to 160 $ to refill it at a hydrogen station..... There is no space in the car due to the 3 big hydrogen tank...it s ridiculus
@saibtsheb5590 Ай бұрын
Toyota joint venture with Shell and Chevron for this go figure. If they're getting these people for hydrogen now, imagine later when these thing needs maintenence.
@oxaile4021 Ай бұрын
@@saibtsheb5590 I imagine maintenance will be very cheap since there'll be plenty of worthless donor cars to scavenge parts from 😂
@FlipBoxStudio Ай бұрын
They were paying with Toyota’s prepaid credit card, so they weren’t complaining about the refill price. Would like to see an updated video after the card runs out funds.
@twothbeave Ай бұрын
200 to fill. I have a Mirai
@Brad_Fallon Ай бұрын
@@saibtsheb5590 China is now shipping an electric bicycle powered by SOLID HYDROGEN. It comes with an electrolyzer the size of a toaster oven that produces Hydrogen at home for refills. Cars will go the same way.
@swanvictor887 Ай бұрын
wow....the people backing Hydrogen are the same who scream "You Can't Take an EV across America!!" Try driving LA to New York in a Mirai!!
@timothykeith1367 Ай бұрын
Driving an EV across the U.S. is like hitch hiking - you can do it if you want to bad enough
@st-ex8506 Ай бұрын
@@timothykeith1367 If you look ONLY at the Tesla Supercharger network, there are charging stations every 60 miles or so outside high density areas (even in the Dakotas…) on the east-west interstates, and that is improving every month that passes! So, there is absolutely ZERO problem driving an EV across the continent! Your information is VERY obsolete, you should definitely update it!
@wambam1741 Ай бұрын
@@timothykeith1367 No, no it’s not. I’ve driven across the US twice in the past 18 months for work with no problem and no anxiety and that was on the electrify America system which has 1/10 the chargers of Tesla.
@davidkendall2272 Ай бұрын
We drove our 2012 Model S from Edmonds, WA to NYC and down to Florida and back (8009 miles) in 2014, and it worked because of Tesla's supercharging network, even at a much earlier stage but still very functional.
@davidkendall2272 Ай бұрын
@@timothykeith1367 We did it in 2014, and would disagree we had a lot of fun doing it in our 2012 Model S.
@chargehanger Ай бұрын
In the case of H2 vehicles, we don't call the buyers "Early adopters", but rather "Only adopters". Sorry for them.
@douglaswatt1582 Ай бұрын
Love it
@justinr9753 Ай бұрын
In 1900 38 percent of vehicles were EVs, 40 percent steam, and 22 percent gasoline. With the invention of the electric starter gasoline cars took favor over EVs that were expensive and had the same problems of today over 100 years later so just because the first one wasn't great doesn't mean they won't get better
@nfzeta128 Ай бұрын
@@justinr9753 this is very much true. However the reasons for EVs being dropped was monetary mostly. In case of hydrogen it's cost, reliability, ease of use etc etc. It's 'cleaner' than petrol but doesn't have anywhere near the ease of petrol and yet isn't as straightforward or have the ability to increase self reliance like renewable powered EVs.
@rogerfaint499 Ай бұрын
Foolish adopters . . .
@abimaelcaraballo3779 Ай бұрын
Or unsuspecting guinea pigs.
@seeratlasdtyria4584 Ай бұрын
"Can't drive a Hydrogen car outside of California unless you have a truck follow you around"... RFLMAO
@moabman6803 Ай бұрын
Uhh, clearly you have no idea the purpose of Toyota and the Mirai. The Mirai is a pilot program that the public can purchase as Toyota develops the technology. It's as simple as that for now.
@drttgb4955 Ай бұрын
showering in champagne is cheaper.
@joecushman6030 Ай бұрын
Or washing your socks in good booze
@cryptocoinkiwi8272 Ай бұрын
If you look up "Sunken Cost Fallacy" in a dictionary it just redirects you to Toyota.
@nfzeta128 Ай бұрын
If Toyota wanted to use hydrogen they needed to take EVs and renewables seriously and start research ages ago. Then when EVs weren't as reliable people may have been tempted to switch over. However they were happy building ICE vehicles and weren't willing to make the investment until it was too late.
@andynguyen144 Ай бұрын
Sunken cost fallacy is self driving based only on vision 😂
@zoransarin5411 Ай бұрын
@@andynguyen144how do you drive my little laugh at his own jokes friend? Vision only? Or do you require a driver cause you are a child and have no license?
@andynguyen144 Ай бұрын
@zoransarin5411 you need radar sensors in which his engineers told him. Vision based only is like Irobot vacuums. How is their company doing with all the competition? 🤣
@cryptocoinkiwi8272 Ай бұрын
@@andynguyen144 You haven't tried it have you? Not FSD. I mean, you haven't tried strapping radar to your head, closing your eyes are trying to drive? I have. Now the police say I can't drive a car ever again.
@JoeyBlogs007 Ай бұрын
Can't feel too sorry for idiots can we ?
@dogsbodyish8403 Ай бұрын
Nope, not in the slightest.
@williamcrowley5506 Ай бұрын
Not at all
@andynguyen144 Ай бұрын
No we can't. Like the people that bought the cyber truck. How is that pedal working out for them ? 😂
@WilliamPeterson-lk4kz Ай бұрын
@@andynguyen144 Tesla's already issued a recall for that problem. What's Toyota doing to help people with Fuel Cell Lemons?
@jmcarb2698 Ай бұрын
@@andynguyen144that train is never late. The video has nothing to do with Tesla but they have to be mentioned. I swear detractors make Tesla more important than ever. 😂
@amy.cooking.recipes878 Ай бұрын
What is going on with Japan? Slow on EV’s and then chasing solid state batteries and even more illusory, Hydrogen powered vehicles. Get a grip 🇯🇵
@chillfluencer Ай бұрын
As weird as Germany which cancelled all subventions for BEVs because it assumes it can avoid Chinese BEVs this way.
@MauriceOldis Ай бұрын
its the oscillations that occur during the change from the old system to the new disruptive one.
@rolexcel Ай бұрын
Japan still uses faxes. They have a problem letting go of redundant technologies.
@KP-xi4bj Ай бұрын
Leave Japan alone! They're chasing the unattainable proverbial unicorn! LOL
@Fissan_Poulsen Ай бұрын
@@rolexcel I believe Germany does too.
@dogbox2290 Ай бұрын
Elon called it. A long time ago. “Hydrogen is a fools errand”
@mylesgray3470 Ай бұрын
As an engineer, I concur. Why use electricity to produce it, then use it to produce electricity over again? That’s a less efficient storage method than electric batteries, due to energy losses in the process.
@moabman6803 Ай бұрын
It's not about efficiency. Almost nobody cares about efficiency. It's about convenience. I don't have to wait 20 hours for mla level 2 charger with hydrogen.
@voelkela Ай бұрын
He also said "Definitely electric. Hydrogen is a waste of time.", and was laughing when asked for the future of cars.
@heavenlyReza Ай бұрын
If you go get one of these without doing your research what can we say
@brucemitchell5637 Ай бұрын
Sort of just like fools that bought an EV, right little fella? 😂😂😂🤡🤡🤡🤡
@tomtom9184 Ай бұрын
Hydrogen never made any sense. They still have electric motors, small batteries and add on life limited, expensive hydrogen fuel cells and composite tanks. Dumb.
@brucetaylor2887 Ай бұрын
Trying to contain the smallest atom with a bunch of bigger atoms.
@andrewlim7751 Ай бұрын
Hydrogen is insanely expensive and rare.
@oknewell Ай бұрын
@@andrewlim7751 Rare? It is literally the most abundant element in the universe...
@nfzeta128 Ай бұрын
@@brucetaylor2887 yep, always was a difficult task.
@nfzeta128 Ай бұрын
@@oknewell That's less true than you may be thinking. That abundance has an * on it as hydrogen reacts with almost anything so it's not going to be found as just hydrogen. This means you either need to process out that hydrogen or pump it through a very closed system (hydrogen goes where it pleases) into very specialised containment units.
@richardhowell1624 Ай бұрын
Running costs is always the final factor in tech progression.
@christianvanderstap6257 Ай бұрын
To add: the fuel cell is a wear component with limited lifespan.
@brucetaylor2887 Ай бұрын
@@christianvanderstap6257 In a reported case the quote to replace it (after about 60,000kms) was more than the car was to purchase.
@nfzeta128 Ай бұрын
@@brucetaylor2887 damn, I didn't even think about that part. I kind of just figured it would be similar to a petrol engine and the fuel tank problems would be rare and fairly inexpensive to change. That's worse than the current battery tech replacement costs, and doesn't even have as long a life.
@incognitotorpedo42 Ай бұрын
@@nfzeta128 Current battery tech is getting way cheaper.
@nfzeta128 Ай бұрын
@@incognitotorpedo42 yea so hydrogen really lost it's time to be the option for people. It's more complicated and also way behind on research and development.
@glennjgroves Ай бұрын
I think this is the first time I have heard Sam emotionally express real frustration regarding stupid people. Words before yes, but there was clear emotion this time. I am not complaining about that, and I agree.
@beerstuff8019 Ай бұрын
The idea that hydrogen, which had almost no production infrastructure, and zero filling stations, would out-compete battery EVs which have bajillions of gigawatts available all over the place, was always ridiculous. All you need to do is add a cheap endpoint charger anywhere there's electricity and you can serve battery EVs. While a hydrogen station costs a million bucks. And you have to find a source for the hydrogen. It's always been a scam for fossil fuel extractors and legacy automakers to delay battery EV adoption.
@moabman6803 Ай бұрын
The Mirai is a pilot program that the public can purchase as Toyota develops the technology. It's as simple as that for now.
@0chuklz0 Ай бұрын
I have said it before, hydrogen is just another path to keeping some form of ICE vehicle, and delay the shift to electric. It still requires massive transportation of a consumable material to refilling stations to power the vehicle. At best it only offers nominal improvement from the usual ICE vehicle...it is the clean cousin of gasoline.
@rozonoemi9374 Ай бұрын
They only want to keep there Dealership making money with servicing those engine & expensive fuel cell.
@brownro214 Ай бұрын
Hydrogen fuel cell vehicles are electric. The fuel cell generates electricity to run an electric motor. There are hydrogen ICE cars. The Mirai is not one of them.
@0chuklz0 Ай бұрын
@@brownro214 That is a good point, I did forget that part. My biggest complaint is that the hydrogen technology still ties refueling to the transportation of a consumable material around the streets to the refueling stations. Add that you still need to consume something to generate the power.
@gothmog2441 Ай бұрын
@@brownro214Toyota is actually very proud of their Hydrogen burning engine (Google it) which ofc makes a realistic roaring noise, for all the ICE obsessed folks who can’t manage without the sound of their exhaust. It’s even LESS efficient than a fuel cell, but there are KZfaq videos claiming it is the end of EVs…
@leiflillandt1488 Ай бұрын
Let's say 5 % of the light weight vehicles shouldn't be BEVs. Is it a big problem if they are diesel or gasoline? I don't think so!
@francischan57c Ай бұрын
How much has Toyota lost on hydrogen car?
@EnriqueThiele Ай бұрын
It has been going on for 10 years. $15,000 on H2 fuel cost + the car cost more to manufacture than the sellimng price.
@saibtsheb5590 Ай бұрын
Toyota joint venture with Shell and Chevron for this. Them oil company gives these people the 15k voucher to fuel up the Mirai. Now that the voucher is over, they're going to collect what they can back from these people.
@nfzeta128 Ай бұрын
@@saibtsheb5590 damn, even when going into a new market they still rig things to screw their customers hard.
@runeg286 Ай бұрын
It is the Japanese government that funded much of this venture. They thought that Hydrogen would enable them to beat the Chinese that were already good at building batteries.
@moabman6803 Ай бұрын
Toyota is doing well financially. The Mirai is a pilot program that the public can purchase as Toyota develops the technology. It's as simple as that for now.
@amy.cooking.recipes878 Ай бұрын
Hydrogen fool cells 😂
@GerthebearBrady. Ай бұрын
Brilliant!
@kerravon4893 Ай бұрын
@@GerthebearBrady.I think Elon said that some time ago. 😂
@henrytang2203 Ай бұрын
If you think fuel cells are foolish, just know that hydrogen combustion cars exist. All the downsides of petrol cars with none of the upsides.
@moabman6803 Ай бұрын
Actually there are a lot of upsides to internal combustion hydrogen engines. Zero emissions is one of them.
@MarksElectricLife Ай бұрын
A fool and his money…
@EnriqueThiele Ай бұрын
Arealways parted.
@moabman6803 Ай бұрын
And what makes it foolish? I'll wait
@MarksElectricLife Ай бұрын
@@moabman6803 Buying into any new technology without first doing your own research into its viability.
@moabman6803 Ай бұрын
@@MarksElectricLife Agreed. Good comment
@pkerry12 Ай бұрын
Everyone is laughing at the die hard Toyota fans for hydrogen cars now.
@andynguyen144 Ай бұрын
Not as hard as people laughing at EVs. How are those insurance premiums that cost more than the monthly auto loan payment working out for them? 😂😂😂
@bensontek Ай бұрын
That’s wrong bro. You speak lies.
@pkerry12 Ай бұрын
@@andynguyen144yep $119 AUD a month insurance cheap as for ev's in Australia, might be in the wrong country maybe those people?
@andynguyen144 Ай бұрын
@@pkerry12 119 per month doesn't exist in California. Sticker prices double for ev
@xraylife Ай бұрын
@@pkerry12 Thats because they are pushing the real cost onto ICE owners.
@garyayres4404 Ай бұрын
Should have bought a Tesla.
@raymondcanessa7208 Ай бұрын
should have bought a corolla
@ultrastoat3298 Ай бұрын
Amen. Lotta happy Tesla drivers out there. World’s best cars.
@EnriqueThiele Ай бұрын
@@raymondcanessa7208 To expensive for fuel, and too much maintenace. Search Corolla vs Tesla Model 3 (antiquate by today prices, and the Model 3+)
@andynguyen144 Ай бұрын
@ultrastoat3298 so happy. Especially with the massive depreciation. How are those model x and s buyers that lost over 50 percent of their value in less than a year 😂😂😂
@andynguyen144 Ай бұрын
I know. Wish Hertz would have listened and just bought teslas instead. Oh wait...... the ceo resigned 😂😂
@jogana6909 Ай бұрын
Toyota's hydrogen car is a scam.
@JCSY1 Ай бұрын
😂😂😂 . Can't afford to refill after buying. 😂😂😂. It's a wrong bet and Toyota will suffer the consequences.
@saibtsheb5590 Ай бұрын
They joint venture with Shell and Chevron to try to put hydrogen and hybrid out there to try to keep fossil fuel relevant
@JCSY1 Ай бұрын
@@saibtsheb5590 Won't work.
@leiflillandt1488 Ай бұрын
It shows more how easy it's to fool people. This time no poor people were fooled though! Maybe if you have 50,000 USD to buy a car, you should look at what you are buying?!
@JCSY1 Ай бұрын
@@leiflillandt1488 Won't buy even if it is USD 5000. If one were to do a search on the net, one will find that it's a big big hassle to refill and it has many drawbacks and limitations. Almost all countries don't even have any hydrogen stations. It won't kick off. It's dead in the water since long long time ago. The only reason those traditional ICE car manufacturers wanted to promote hydrogen is because they can't catch up with EVs.
@balahmay Ай бұрын
What about the safety of those high pressure tanks and fuel lines in an accident? No thanks!
@Wongseifu548 Ай бұрын
exactly
@moabman6803 Ай бұрын
Meh it's just a bunch of automatic shutoff valves. You have to get squashed between 2 trains to rupture a tank.
@ekyu88 Ай бұрын
I think Hydrogen has potential vs EVs. In Europe, they had roof panels that instead of creating electricity (which is not very efficient), use generated electricity to split water into Oxygen and Hydrogen. So instead you get Hydrogen from the panels instead. This means you will also has to have tank buried underground to store the hydrogen. So if this catch up, Hydrogen cars may be a thing.
@BigBen621 Ай бұрын
2:04 _it's about probably 80% cheaper to drive an electric car than a hydrogen powered vehicle_ *It's actually >93% less expensive.* Real world example: the Toyota Mirai carries 5.65 KG of H2 and gets an EPA range of 357 miles. A KG of H2 in San Diego, where I live, is currently $36, having recently increased from about $13. So the per-mile cost of H2 for the Toyota Mirai is 5.65 x 36 / 357 = 57¢. Meanwhile, my Tesla Model Y has a 75-kWh battery, and has an EPA range of about 320 miles. At the San Diego Gas & Electric home EV charging rate of about 15¢/kWh, the per-mile cost of electricity for my Model Y is 75 x .15 / 320 = 3.5¢; so the Mirai costs literally *>16 times as much per mile* in direct operating cost. And actually I charge for free from my solar array, which of course the HFC vehicle can't do.
@ianollmann9393 Ай бұрын
This is not really the fault of the buyers. Toyota brought an unworkable product to market and the buyer trusted them. Toyota gets clean car credits for selling them from the government. Since the fuel itself is less green than 100% coal as it is currently produced, there was a whole lotta deception going on and I think they should have the right to sue, assuming there is legal grounds to do so.
@moabman6803 Ай бұрын
It's probably just another article that came across one or 2 disgruntled owners and deceptively makes it sounds like it's thousands of people. It's today's news.
@kalebdaark100 Ай бұрын
I just did a quick google for hydrogen filling stations in the UK. There are 15 of them apparently. 6 of which are in and around London. The nearest one to my house is apparently 66 miles away. 🤣
@swanvictor887 Ай бұрын
How much does it cost to 'fill the tank', do you know?
@robertwoodhouse-bm7kt Ай бұрын
@@swanvictor887 60% more than petrol., Of the 14 I found listed 4 were in Universities, 1 on M25 1 on M40, 2 in Aberdeen, a few more around London, Toyota wants everyone to switch to Hydrogen but does not want to install the infrastructure.
@swanvictor887 Ай бұрын
wow...that road trip in a Mirai between Aberdeen and London would be tense, wouldn't it lol!@@robertwoodhouse-bm7kt
@kalebdaark100 Ай бұрын
@@swanvictor887 I've never actually seen a hydrogen filling station or the price they stick on the board. So i did a search and an up to date number is remarkably difficult to find. The best I found was a section from an article on the autotrader site, updated in march 2022, which read: " In the UK, hydrogen costs about £12 per kg, which means a 62-mile (100km) journey in the Hyundai NEXO, for example (which does 0.95kg/100km), will cost around £11.40. An equivalent diesel car (doing 4.4-litres/100km) would cost around £5.81 for a 100km journey (diesel at £1.32 a litre), with a petrol-powered car (5.6-litres/100km) costing around £7.11 for that 100km (petrol at £1.27 a litre)." If you can do better than that let me know.
@brucetaylor2887 Ай бұрын
@@robertwoodhouse-bm7kt why would you. The cars are stupidly expensive to build, the gas is stupidly expensive to produce. So who would buy the cars? Would you pay more to purchase and run an otherwise unimpressive car?
@PMteach1 Ай бұрын
A friend bought a Mirai online after being promised a free rental car. Why doesn't Toyota insist all their dealerships to have a hydrogen fueling stations? The most important aspect of new technologies is infrastructure. That's why Tesla is a winner and other EV makers are fly by night. Tesla's charging infrastructure is second to none
@casperhansen826 Ай бұрын
All hydrogen stations in Scandinavia have been closed, a Taxi company in Denmark had to return all 110 hydrogen cars after only a year of driving
@runeg286 Ай бұрын
The good thing with electricity is that everyone already has that available. A little harder to build a network from scratch with a product (Hydrogen) that is 4 x as expensive.
@moabman6803 Ай бұрын
Why are you comparing hydrogen to other cars? Are you serious? The Mirai is a pilot program that the public can purchase as Toyota develops the technology. It's as simple as that for now. I really can't believe people don't understand such a basic concept.
@runeg286 Ай бұрын
@@moabman6803 Ok, but why are the owners then left alone? If it is a "pilot program", where is the program? If Toyota sold it to end customers they should at least have an interest in keeping the cars running, or say the "pilot program" has ended and we will buy back the cars.
@moabman6803 Ай бұрын
@runeg286 I don't think they are left alone. The get a pretty long warranty period and free fuel for a while.
@Thulebeez Ай бұрын
Toyota wasted billions on the H2 pipe dream. Instead of taking those billions and putting them in a proper EV cars and charging infrastructure, and better Manufacturing facilities for EV.
@douglaswatt1582 Ай бұрын
Toyota illustrates the old Maxim that you can't expect someone to understand something if their salary depends on their not understanding it. They were paid billions of dollars by the Japanese government to develop hydrogen as an alternative to electric vehicles because the Japanese government was paranoid about industry dependence on Chinese supply chains. That is actually the origin of all this nonsense, a dust up in the China Sea between Japanese military and Chinese commercial vessels, resulting in China at least temporarily stopping their supply of hybrid battery components to Japanese industry. This terrified the government so they opened bids for the development of an alternative technology, and the hydrogen lie was born.
@dsoede Ай бұрын
They definitely should sue Toyota. Toyota delivered a dysfunctional product. If an Apple laptop would unusable after half a year, it would be reason to sue. Toyota is an established brand, from which the public may expect a proper usable product.
@FlipBoxStudio Ай бұрын
I was a big Toyota fan. Most of the over a dozen vehicles I’ve owned were yotas. 3 of them were their hybrid models. I was also initially interested in their hydrogen fuel cell Mirai back in 2016. But after doing exhaustive research on the technology, early owner reviews/experiences, and weighing the pros and cons, I ultimately decided to stay away from it and went EV instead. Now an EV only household for nearly a decade and don’t see myself looking back. I switched to the other T brand since Toyota refuse to support the EV market.
@paulgoffin8054 Ай бұрын
"Invested"? You meant "spent".
@rozonoemi9374 Ай бұрын
You mean waste.
@allenaxp6259 21 күн бұрын
The only place that Hydrogen may work is in Planes like jets. And that maybe a long shot. Cars and Trucks forget it.
@kpop863 Ай бұрын
I’ve been saying this for the longest, hydrogen is too expensive.
@biodieseler1 Ай бұрын
If only hydrogen was a great replacement for liquid fuels ... But it's not, which has been obvious for more than a decade.
@EnriqueThiele Ай бұрын
True. People made their choice aboutg ten years ago.
@nfzeta128 Ай бұрын
Yea the first time I heard about it I literally just had to quickly look it up to realise it's not a good replacement and is just worse than renewables. The existence of the fuel cell alone and the fact you're dealing with hydrogen was enough for me. They would have to do something revolutionary to make it not a dead end. Or would have had to start this process ages ago and be far along on efficiency and cost reduction.
@larryc1616 Ай бұрын
Toyota hydrogen fuel = Porsche synthetic fuel = $CAM$
@jounisaari9471 Ай бұрын
Porches synthetic is not a scam.. they tell that it will be available only for Porsches and it costs over 6€/liter. In EU it may be considered as carbon neutral, if the car refuses to use regular gasoline. They promised to sell new gas cars still in 30's, and synthetic gas for track days. It will just be really expensive hobby for few enthusiasts. 😊
@omarsimpson6542 Ай бұрын
Electric Viking Thank you for showing this video. You know I did exactly what you said on the video , how many electric charge stations are there in Ontario Canada. Then I did my research on how much it would cost to purchase an Ev overall cost to. Then I made my decision when bought an electric car. It's very simple to do your research and if you need help there are plenty of locations to find it . Your videos for example, or for me government agencies that give me good links to find the advice for purchasing an electric vehicle which I have here nearby Toronto,But here's the fact is cheaper to run electric car than gas or even hydrogen . Thank you.
@moabman6803 Ай бұрын
Actually some hybrids are just as cheap as a EV. Also in some areas a public charger costs more than gasoline.
@peterstauber5510 Ай бұрын
Saw a hydrogen car for sale in Oklahoma for 1/10th the blue book. but you would have to tow it to California!!
@herta3286 Ай бұрын
The latest EV made by China can travel 700 miles on a single charge. An ICE can't even come close..
@justinr9753 Ай бұрын
700 miles on their rating system or 700 real miles?
@nfzeta128 Ай бұрын
@@justinr9753 that's rating system. The real world miles are around 620.
@andynguyen144 Ай бұрын
@@nfzeta128reminds me of the 500 mile range cyber truck 😂
@nfzeta128 Ай бұрын
@@andynguyen144 well no one took Elon seriously with his bluffs. The guy is known to exaggerate. Tesla pretty much made it in spite of him, rather than because of him. Though he does know to invest in industries heavily subsidised by government and focused on future industry. So with enough money it's going to pay off after a few tries.
@moabman6803 Ай бұрын
You really want a Chinese EV? I'll say something nice at your funeral. If Tesla can't build a 700 mile car you really think China can?
@mauriceharting5877 Ай бұрын
The only possible good use for hydrogen is in local public transportation buses since it burns cleaner than diesel or gas, but even with busses the fuel price is quite high.
@philiptaylor7902 Ай бұрын
A number of local authorities have abandoned hydrogen buses (Montpellier in France) due to high running costs or difficulty in building the infrastructure (Crawley in the UK) and turned to battery electric.
@mauriceharting5877 Ай бұрын
@@philiptaylor7902 I agree with you that EV public transportation busses are the future and are already being built by BYD and used in Canada and other places. Hydrogen busses do provide clean energy, but the cost of refueling and maintenance are much higher compared to EV's.
@nfzeta128 Ай бұрын
@@mauriceharting5877 they would have had to invest a lot more before the EV rise and try to at least mitigate those problems. They only tried to start this hydrogen push to avoid EVs because it's less money for them to switch to EVs from gas.
@mauriceharting5877 Ай бұрын
@@nfzeta128 Yes EV busses are more expensive to buy when compared to ICE busses, but they are quiet and don't pollute and in the cities where they are used that is a big advantage.
@moabman6803 Ай бұрын
Each EV bus costs twice as much as a diesel bus. Yes the EV is very quiet. It also takes 2 EV buses to replace 1 diesel bus because EVs don't have the range to finish the route.
@budmor2182 20 күн бұрын
Shell did close their stations in California, and there was one in the middle of San Francisco. But there is also one in the neighbouring city of South San Francisco, about 7-miles from the middle of SF; less than 9 miles from the Shell station that closed; and there are no tolls to get there. There are 3 just across the bay in Oakland. Going to Sunnyvale would be one of the farthest away in the SF Bay Area, and it doesn't involve paying a toll. (BTW I believe Shell closed its 7-stations in California.) Per another KZfaq channel, hydrogen prices seems to have dropped recently from $36/kg to $30/kg. It is still very expensive. It would need to come down to about $20/kg to be comparable to an not very efficient ICE vehicle (15mpg US). When these cars came out about 6-years ago the price was closer to about $5/kg, if I remember correctly. At that price it made a lot of sense, especially with the $15K free hydrogen card. It is my understanding that the fueling stations make their own hydrogen. They may only store enough for 50 fill up (300kgs), but no delivery is needed. Hydrogen does have a future where one needs energy dense fuels such as in ships and especially in aircraft; but maybe even big trucks and tanks. I find it funny that EV people seem to want to dump on hydrogen at every opportunity possible. There is a place for green hydrogen. I think we can generally agree that for personal vehicles, EVs have won the day so far. But in a somewhat parallel universe hydrogen could have won out. Charging at home is a huge advantage, especially if one also has solar panels. But we can have battery power and clean hydrogen at the same time. I see there is a hybrid pickup coming out, the Dodge Ramcharger which, like the Chevy Volt is propelled by electric motors, but also has an engine/generator and a large battery pack (92kWh), so it would be used mostly in EV mode. If we did have a decent hydrogen network, having a fuel cell vehicle with a plug in large battery pack would be a cleaner hybrid vehicle. Honda is developing such a vehicle although it will only have an EV range of about 29-miles (Honda CR-V e:FCEV). Supposed to be out in 2025. I saw a video of a guy who went across the US in a Tesla carrying his own solar panels. It took him about 2-months. Probably about the same time as a decent cyclist. With an ICE hybrid doing 50mpg, it wouldn't be hard to get across the States carrying one's own fuel (15-jerry cans) in under a week, or half a week with 2-drivers. Hydrogen has nearly 3-times the energy density by weight of petrol, so with the right engineering in the future it would be easy to see how one could do a such a journey. Obviously pretty pointless exercise for most of us, but probably very useful for the military.
@witteegameapps7031 Ай бұрын
It costs $200 to fill up a Mirai. The trick is toyota gives you a $15k credit card to charge, but some owners don't think about what happens when you use up that $15k credit card. For my VW ID4, it costs $15 to fill up 100% at a public charger even though you should charge to 80%.
@tony0x48 Ай бұрын
Toyota et al really failed on the infrastructure side. When Tesla started out, they saw that the lack of charging infrastructure was a barrier to EV adoption, and they said hey, our customers will need charging infrastructure, so we will build that infrastructure, and they went ahead and built the best charging network in the USA. Toyota should have done something similar with hydrogen. Sure, hydrogen stations are expensive to build, but you know, pick a hub city that you're going to target for hydrogen vehicle sales, make sure that one city is well provisioned with stations, and nearby cities have a few, then you can have significant sales in that area, and it's a practical option for some people. Build on that. But just selling the cars and not making sure one way or another that customers will have good access to filling stations is just stupid.
@paulgoffin8054 Ай бұрын
Hydrogen stations are ridiculously expensive, more to the point, the cost of creating the Hydrogen is ridiculously expensive.
@brucetaylor2887 Ай бұрын
Sure the cars, stations, fuel are ridiculously expensive, inefficient, don't last well, have safety issues but what they really needed was more stations.
@greggrant4614 Ай бұрын
@@brucetaylor2887- Makes no sense to add more costly, less efficient, less convenient hydrogen refueling infrastructure for hydrogen fuel that was always going to be many times more costly to produce than clean, renewable electricity delivered to our vehicles where they are normally parked, mostly through already existing wires.
@moabman6803 Ай бұрын
Why are you comparing hydrogen to other cars? Are you serious? The Mirai is a pilot program that the public can purchase as Toyota develops the technology. It's as simple as that for now. I really can't believe people don't understand such a basic concept
@tony0x48 Ай бұрын
@@moabman6803 take your meds, buddy.
@EdVanMeyer Ай бұрын
Hydrogen is very similar to natural gas. LPG burns so cleanly that the car engine oil does not discolour, seen that on an LPG converted Jeep Commander V8 Petrol.
@antoniocruz8083 Ай бұрын
LPG is half the price of gasoline here in Portugal. Why doesn't everyone drive one, I don't get it.
@EnriqueThiele Ай бұрын
You can burn H2 in an ICDE modified for H2 combustion. It gets less efficient than a gas ICE. You see , H2 has a very high combustion temperature, so intenal combustion engines run at a ratio 40:1 (gas engine 16:1) The extra oxigen implies extra N2 (atmostpere 78%N2 and 21% O2) estra mass is needed to lower the combustion tempersture (heating the extra mass) This is reqired or the engine will melt. VAlves, pistons have to be reinforced to have acceptable durability. Oil changes had to be more frequent. Higger temperatures produce more NOx wich cause cancer to humans. A bigger catalyst is needed. It is not truth tha exhaust is only water vapor.
@philiptaylor7902 Ай бұрын
@@antoniocruz8083Because, like hydrogen, filling stations are few and far between.
@antoniocruz8083 Ай бұрын
@@philiptaylor7902 NO, not unlike hydrogen. There isn't one single hydrogen station in all of Portugal but near where I live there are around 10 LPG stations. I own 2 LPG cars and I can travel anywhere in Europe only on LPG. I've done long trips on them and I consume half of a gasoline car.
@incognitotorpedo42 Ай бұрын
@@antoniocruz8083 That's cool. So you're half way to where we want to be, which is zero carbon. Half's better than nothing.
@rogeranderson8116 Ай бұрын
Hi Sam, As usual, spot on narrative of the situation! 8 years ago I would look over my shoulder commuting down 101 in my Leaf and see a Mirai and wondering "how is that a good idea". Brand loyalty run amok I guess.
@spacecowboy2483 Ай бұрын
I first heard about Toyota touting the hydrogen fuel cell back in 1996. It's been 10 years away ever since. Even back then seemed unreasonable!
@rjbowlin Ай бұрын
The whole idea is stupid from a customer point of view. Cleaner air? Sure. But even if it’s completely adopted you just exchange big oil for big hydrogen. Electric isn’t just cleaner than gas it can come from any source. Most charging will be done right at home.
@moabman6803 Ай бұрын
Hydrogen can also come from any source and from home buddy
@xiaowei1 Ай бұрын
Way back in 2011 there was talk of hydrogens cars from Toyota - the Mirai was unveiled a full 3 years before its introduction, so there was much talk about these cars before they were even produced. I was following the production of the GM-Volt at the time, eagerly awaiting its introduction in Australia in 2012 (I did get one, it was great). Every electric car enthusiast knew back then Hydrogen was a dead horse even before deliveries started. How on earth could an expensive fuel based car compete with cars that could simply charge at home with solar on the roof for free? With the volt, if you ran out of electricity, it had a built in generator, so i would also never be stuck if i travelled a long distance. Hydrogen based cars often came up in the forums back then, and were shot down almost instantly due to the countless flaws. Storage, lost of energy in conversions, cost of the fuel, transporting fuel, production of the fuel, leaking of fuel, explosiveness of the fuel, etc... To top it off, they were part electric cars anyway, just with a smaller battery and no ability to plug them in. I cannot believe someone who bought a Mirai was not an enthusiasts and knew of these shortcomings. Early adopters know what they are doing. With my Volt, I knew full well back in 2012 there were very few service centers and almost no infrastructure to charge EV's outside of the home. I had my granny charger and that was it - that was my risk. But I also knew it was definitely the way to go, and electric cars were clearly future. Hydrogen always sounded cool, but the coolness was less than skin deep with all the shortcomings - it was simply a replacement for petrol. To me, charging at home surely could not fail. It is not possible for someone to pick hydrogen over electric and not know the difference and the risks.
@nfzeta128 Ай бұрын
Yep, hydrogen cars as currently envisioned are just electric cars with extra steps using a power source that's harder to store, attain, and maintain.
@xiaowei1 Ай бұрын
@@nfzeta128 it was the same then as it is now... nothing has changed. their have been advances in creating hydrogen to bring the price down, but even now it cannot compete with petrol and definitely not compete with electricity which is made for free on my house roof.
@moabman6803 Ай бұрын
That's great. Glad you enjoy waiting 15 hours to recharge your battery.
@xiaowei1 Ай бұрын
@@moabman6803 charge while you sleep for $2 pay $150 to fill your car. Options, options everywhere...
@moabman6803 Ай бұрын
@xiaowei1 Hydrogen technology is still on its early stages. It's in no way meant to be competitive to EVs just yet. The Mirai is a pilot program car. It's simply made to be a car people could buy and Toyota could learn more from observing some of the public using it.
@tarun1982 Ай бұрын
At this point I'm thinking Toyota would have a brighter future if they started a con artist training academy.
@mikofi Ай бұрын
I really like the idea of a hydrogen fuelled car. Sure - now it's a new technology and I have no idea whether or not it will become popular. The technology however seems like something that makes much more sense than an electric car, because of the refill time. If there are more and more stations with hydrogen it will be much more convenient. Refuelling takes about 5 minutes, unlike charging an electric car that takes 30 - 60 minutes. For now - I stay with a non plug in hybrid, as it is the most convenient all round purpose car.
@billywakwabi4758 Ай бұрын
Hydrogen is fools hardy initiative
@LouDeVere Ай бұрын
Why would hydrogen be the propellant for a car when all you need are 4 wheels, an electric motor or two, a big battery and a computer to link it all together. IN OTHER WORDS, AN EV! If you believe in hydrogen powered cars, you're a very foolish person like the ex CEO of Toyota and his sidekick for instance.
@moabman6803 Ай бұрын
Do you know anything about cars? Seriously
@stevepailet8258 Ай бұрын
hydrogen filling stations closing.. only $35 a pound
@maurobrattich7971 Ай бұрын
H2 for cars and other light duty users never made any sense. Green hydrogen has been outclassed by battery technology.
@LoneWolf-wp9dn Ай бұрын
I wouldn't have bought electric if I wasn't really optimistic about the future of charging, of battery replacements, of making my own energy, a universe of mix and match parts to fit your every energetic need. What the hell would you have to look forward to with hydrogen? The cars are expensive as hell way more than a lot of evs, and charging is a unicorn
@brucetaylor2887 Ай бұрын
A expensive unicorn (more so than even petrol). Then so far there are cases of them crapping out at 60,000kms driven and quotes more than the car to replace the fuel cell. That they sold the few dozen seems incredible at this point.
@user-it7lf7kk8m Ай бұрын
Fascinating to see EV users using the same arguments against hydrogen as Ice users use about EV s😂
@nfzeta128 Ай бұрын
@@user-it7lf7kk8m yes because people can still observe reality. A lot of EV complaints are misguided and those rather apply to hydrogen. The battery complaint was the most valid and even that has been worked out and hydrogen is literally worse in that area while the fuel cells don't last anywhere as long as the batteries do.
@paulscottstunts Ай бұрын
Why I will never switch from my EV to one of these new gas cars. 1. Range anxiety - I am used to being on 100% every morning. With a gas car, I might not have enough gas to get to work and have to waste time going to find a fueling Station ⛽️ and spend time fueling up, whilst breathing toxic fumes. 2. Big maintenance problem - After 100k-200k miles you have to swap or rebuild the engine. That’s $10-20k on an old car. This is crazy! 3. Risk of fire - Gas cars have ~100x the likelihood of catching fire compared to EVs. You literally have a full tank of explosive liquid right underneath your back seats. No thank you! 4. Underdeveloped charging infrastructure - Every home has a power outlet. Every AirBnb has one too. No matter how remote. With a gas car, you have to go find special fueling stations ⛽️ instead of charging while you sleep. Sometimes, the nearest one could be 50 miles away! 5. Environmental impact - Did you know it takes about 10x as much mining and pumping to get the oil needed to fuel a gas car over its lifetime than the materials needed to build an electric battery? Insane! 6. Range issues - Did you know that if you turn on aircon, charge your devices in the car and blast the infotainment system, your gas car range can go down by 20% or more?! 7. Cost - The average gas car costs 20% more than a Tesla. It’s just too expensive for mass adoption. Oh yeah, sorry, I forgot. Did you know a gas car loses 35% of its value the moment you drive off the dealership lot. You have to be a real nutcase fan boy to switch to a gas car
@TheLeftRbabieskillers Ай бұрын
I don't know what this is. But whatever makes you feel good about yourself. I mean, you have to be a bona-fide propagandist to spew such nonsense.
@brucemitchell5637 Ай бұрын
BAHAHAHAHA!!!! You're absolutely hilarious little fella! Are you available for children's parties? I can see it now, a bouncy castle, pony rides and the world according to Paulie! 😂😂😂🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡
@TheLeftRbabieskillers Ай бұрын
@brucemitchell5637 you saw it too uh? It's even funnier that he got three thumbs up.
@5353Jumper Ай бұрын
Crazy how all his points are true, but still there is so much FUD about EVs paid for by petroleum companies so a large portion of the population refuses to believe it.
@brenth.8474 Ай бұрын
Drivers that switch to an EV are more likely to buy an EV again per JD Power. Kelly Blue Book (major US auto website) and consumer reports found the same in other studies. But you always have clowns who like burning thousands of dollars more per year like the two fools above who are probably living in their mothers’ basement and likely the same person with two profiles. Weak little man child…. I love safely driving my family and friends and saving enough money on gas to pay for auto insurance, tires, and the occasional windshield replacement. Kids drove across country many times to school in an EV and apartment living was no problem for them either (more convenient than a gas car anyway)
@willeisinga2089 Ай бұрын
I have Rooftop Solar and charge Electric Car from my Rooftop Solar. Solar is for Free. Solar Panels are Cheap. 50 Dollar a Panel Thats 2 packets tobacco.
@Furyswipes Ай бұрын
They didn't get suckered into it. They made a decision based on numbers. Like my daughter, she always planned to dump the car when the card ran out.
@richardalexander5758 Ай бұрын
Toyota is a crap company, working to slow EV adoption since they failed to join in development of EV's.
@rozonoemi9374 Ай бұрын
Toyota are environmental criminals with trying to change the low emission rules & standards around the world!
@brucetaylor2887 Ай бұрын
Plus they took the Japan car industry with them. Poor Japan it is a shame for the citizens to have these people destroy their economy. Even Harley freakn Davidson made an electric motorcycle, Japan? Nothing.
@saibtsheb5590 Ай бұрын
Toyota joint venture with Chevron and Shell, ev will never be their future plans. It'll hurt their partners. Whatever they do, will have to benefit Chevron and Shell.
@mikafiltenborg7572 Ай бұрын
Toyota = Kodak Toyota bankrupt before 2029
@agusedyanto3324 Ай бұрын
The latest news is that Toyota will seriously develop EVs in collaboration with Huawei!
@xjet Ай бұрын
Hydrogen is a terrible fuel. I wrote an article on Aardvark Daily titled "The Great Hydrogen Fuel Myth" way back in 2008 -- but the hype has been strong, mainly from those who don't understand the massive issues that go way beyond simply the price.
@jdi801 Ай бұрын
Interesting read. Thank you. Surprisingly little has changed over so many years.
@moabman6803 Ай бұрын
2008 was a long time ago. The technology has developed a lot since then.
@xjet Ай бұрын
@@moabman6803 Yeah, that's why we still aren't seeing hydrogen being used as a fuel -- because the basic laws of physics are imutable. It's still an incredibly low-density fuel (from a volumetric perspective), it still presents enormous problems with storage and transport, if it's made from hydrocarbons then that production still creates CO2 and if it's made from renewable sources then you waste about 30 percent of the energy in doing so. Hydrogen will always be too *expensive* to use as a fuel for all these reasons and more. As Mr Scott would say _"ye canna change the laws of physics captain"_
@larzlarz1140 Ай бұрын
There’s 18 True Zero Hydrogen stations in SoCal. They all charge $36 per kg of hydrogen. That is equivalent to $36 per gallon of gas. A Mirai has 355 miles of EPA rated range with a 5 kg fill up. A Prius has a 644 mile EPA rated range with a 10 gallon fill up. Neither of them will actually come anywhere near close to meeting those numbers, but it shows you that 1 kg of hydrogen is roughly equivalent to one gallon of gas. Who wants to pay $36 per gallon and have no infrastructure to road trip? H2 is DEAD.
@Brad_Fallon Ай бұрын
Make your own hydrogen at home. It's easy and safe!
@Zripas Ай бұрын
@@Brad_Fallon It's far far away from being safe...
@tammyryley4772 Ай бұрын
Hydrogen! What a red herring Everyone knows jellyfish energy is the future.
@tedchandran Ай бұрын
Jai Hind. Toyota may soon face an Overcapacity of Hydrogen vehicles
@JCSY1 Ай бұрын
Send to junkyard for scrap.
@WANDERER0070 Ай бұрын
Japan is controled by US and US is controled by OIL corps,,do the math 😂
@stephenclay6852 Ай бұрын
For Toyota to have a chance of making hydrogen a possibility they would of had to do what Tesla did when launching the electric car ( modal S ) instal the infrastructure to allow you to drive the car. It’s no good relying on outside companies because they would need to make a profit from the start. And that wouldn’t happen because of to few cars. I’m sure it may work in the commercial sector but as yet not in the private sector
@moabman6803 Ай бұрын
Why are you comparing hydrogen to other cars? Are you serious? The Mirai is a pilot program that the public can purchase as Toyota develops the technology. It's as simple as that for now. I really can't believe people don't understand such a basic concept
@gravitykp7701 Ай бұрын
Way to read an Inside EVs article to your audience 👍🏼 I feel for the people in SF, but in Oakland, where they’re building more hydrogen stations and most of the buses run on hydrogen, this is poopoo. People who bought Mirais over the last few years were early, which sucks and honestly Toyota should have been charging the current price ($10,000-$17,000) from the get go, but the future of Hydrogen is bright. Again, they burned a lot of people for charging luxury prices for an impractical luxury car, but hydrogen will continue to grow with TrueZero, Toyota and other companies
@ianollmann9393 Ай бұрын
Hydrogen is a synthetic fuel and so really can't be cheaper than the energy required to produce it, which is (today) triple the energy your are going to get out of it when your car "burns" it. Not to mention that today's hydrogen sources all come from hydrocarbons -- you can think of it as pre-burnt gasoline (or methane) from which the carbon is burned off ahead of time and the hydrogen is set aside to be burned later. It can be made from water, but there again the energy cost is triple what you get out and it is just way cheaper to recharge a battery than it is to make hydrogen. HOWEVER, there might be a distant economic future with surplus free electricity wherein, storing it as hydrogen is better than just dumping it or turning of the solar panels. This may happen because solar collection in summer may be triple what it is in the winter. In order to have enough power in the winter, many, including Tony Saba, think that we will overbuild solar to compensate for this (and the high cost of batteries) and we might at peak times of the year or even most of the year end up with several times more solar electricity than we need. Under those circumstances, then it matters less that making hydrogen is inefficient and there might be some future for energy storage as hydrogen for some needs like aviation, long haul shipping and maybe some cars. So, sure dead for now, but probably best not to write it off in 2070, when we see how things shape out. Needless to say, your 2024 Toyota Mirai is unlikely to be of much use to you in 2070.
@avgjoe5969 Ай бұрын
"Surplus electricity" is a silly concept. There are many ways electricity can be stored off peak. It is, by definition, a costly inefficiency which is even now bein wipe out as battery storage becomes (much) cheaper and other methods capture it. The guy who pushed this "surplus energy" was the founder of Nikola... the convicted fraud. Regards using H2 for shipping when we have LNG carriers powered by LNG today seems complex and expensive in an industry that is intolerant of high fuel costs. Regards using H2 in aircraft... recall that in addition to its other many failings, H2 is Very bulky. Not good in a commercial airliner. H2 accidents would also be a bit too much of a risk.
@NavarroOne Ай бұрын
Sam you’re normally very emphatic. Have a little sympathy for the well meaning and environmentally conscious pioneers who ventured into what they hoped and believed would be the path to a green future. I too am a clear EV evangelist but I respect our brothers and sisters who wanted hydrogen to be a viable path; it has become clear what is the most sensible path forward now and as people make the switch let’s all display empathy rather than schadenfreude and let’s get EV mobility moving in a big way and stop burning stuff!
@FriedChairs Ай бұрын
The problem is that every hydrogen proponent I have met online wants to burn down EVs so I’m with Sam in having no empathy.
@NavarroOne Ай бұрын
@@FriedChairsbelieve me I see the exact same thing but not one of the professed hydrogen proponents I’ve ever met online have ever been near a hydrogen car; they are just spreading FUD. The actual real bona fide hydrogen car owners are rare as hens teeth; I’ve never spoken with one and I do feel for them
@SR-pr2xz Ай бұрын
You have to look at markets individually. Australia hardly used diesel cars, but in Europe they are the majority of cars. Europe is full on rolling out hydrogen filling pumps at stations across Europe. You can pretty much drive anywhere with hydrogen maps to show you the nearest filling station.
@LilaKuhJunge Ай бұрын
5:15 that is due to the laws of thermodynamics, expanding a gas cools it down - and this is what happens when putting fuel into a hydrogen car.
@saibtsheb5590 Ай бұрын
Thats why Ill never touch a regular Toyota. They dont care about no one but their profit. The economics of Hydrogen will never match an EV. Same goes for a Hybrid or Plugin Hybrid.
@KP-xi4bj Ай бұрын
Betamax vs. VHS Looks like VHS is winning all over again.
@brownro214 Ай бұрын
Nope, this time the superior product is winning. Hydrogen would be more popular (like VHS) if they showed a porn movie on the video monitor while refueling.
@st-ex8506 Ай бұрын
Not exactly... Betamax was technically superior to VHS on at least a number of dimensions. HFCEV are inferior to BEV on ALL dimensions!
@KP-xi4bj Ай бұрын
@@brownro214 Depends on what you define superior is. Refuelling a FCEV takes minutes compared to charging for hours for a BEV.
@KP-xi4bj Ай бұрын
@@st-ex8506 See my follow-up response.
@KP-xi4bj Ай бұрын
@@st-ex8506 Refueling a FCEV takes minutes compared to charging for hours for a BEV.
@recurvearcher6542 Ай бұрын
Hi Sam, thank you. One undeniable fact that each day becomes clearer and more compelling in favour of EV is no longer being dependent on oil companies. Right now, in Australia, you can solar power your home, put in a battery, and refuel your car, totally independently. Home batteries $15,000 now $3,000 solar panels the same with increased efficiency, sure if you live in a unit, not as easy but it's still early days, developers will start building with these features. Toyota will, if not already, realise hydrogen is trying to reverse the stampeding herd towards EV, nothing effects sales like class actions and really angry customers. Exciting 12 months ahead. Great posts
@moabman6803 Ай бұрын
You do know that an EV takes oil right? Have you changed the oil on your EV yet?
@silasbendix4964 Ай бұрын
I'm watching from Denmark (a small country in northern Europe). There used to be 3 H2 fuelling stations in the country, but they are all closed (in 2023) due to lack of demand. There was a total of 136 commercial H2 vehicles, mostly taxis and 10 privately owned H2 vehicles in Denmark. In comparison about 7% of the 2.7M cars in DK are already EVs and more than 50% of all new cars sold last year were EVs. I still hear people claim that there is a future for H2 cars here, but this sounds to much like science fiction to me. I have a hard time finding any scenario, where a battery EV would not be an option, but a H2 car would.
@Brad_Fallon Ай бұрын
If everyone is making hydrogen at home as easily as turning on the kitchen sink, why do we need "Refueling Stations"?
@silasbendix4964 Ай бұрын
@@Brad_FallonWith the same logic: Why do we need superchargers when we can change at home? Or Mr./Ms. Everybody must have a very hard time "turning on the kitchen sink"😅
@belowme4927 Ай бұрын
how is your electricity made? uranium? fossil fuel? lpn? coal?
@WANDERER0070 Ай бұрын
Hydro,wind,solar,nukes 😂
@EnriqueThiele Ай бұрын
Source Billions KW percentage Natural gas 1,802 43.1% Coal 675 16.2% Nuclear 775 18.6% Renewables (total) 894 21.4% Coal is decresing rapidly as renewables grow. All new powerplnats projects are in the renewable category. With this combination ev are way cleaner than ICE. It take only 13,500 miles of driving for the EV to have equal grenhouse gases emisions to an ICE car. Long time ago it was 30,000 miles, the droped to 20,000 , and now only 13,500 miles. This is done due to the way battery packs are manufactured. Of course once that amount is passed the ICE car keeps polutingm more, and more, until it is retired.. An ev battery pack las more than 300,000 miles or about 2 ICE cars combined milleage, so it should never be compared one to one. LFP nbatteries last for 500,000 miles, and CATL has now batteries that last 1,000,000 million miles(slightly more than 6 ICE cars) H2 always leaks. H2 leaks when they reach the upper atmosphere produces chemical compounds 11X worse than greenhouse gases.
@BrentonSmythesfieldsaye Ай бұрын
By my rooftop solar system.
@GgDBXS Ай бұрын
I have energy from fusion reactor with converters on my rooftop
@douglaswatt1582 Ай бұрын
No it's from trolls running on Tiny mice treadmills
@belowme4927 Ай бұрын
copy and paste Tesla nonsense: Cybertruck can't even handle a CAR WASH! | MGUY Australia
@EnriqueThiele Ай бұрын
Nonsense. It has the overall dimension (or smaller) than other pickups, being ICE or a Hummer ev.Haters are not wise people. Hate blocks all thinking.
@st-ex8506 Ай бұрын
If you believe ANYTHING MGUY Australia says, then I have a bridge to sell you! The guy is the most ridiculous of all EV-haters I have come across.
@777Outrigger Ай бұрын
If Toyota was serious about hydrogen they'd be building hydrogen stations as fast as they could, building out the infrastructure, like Tesla did with the Superchargers.
@DueyMiller-rk9dr Ай бұрын
The problem with hydrogen is it doesn't compress very well. But you can put it in a tank with some material that will absorb the hydrogen. And then it will release it. The only problem is that this is the only working method of storing hydrogen that actually works. And the material to absorb the hydrogen is called an oxidizer. This particular oxidizer is very good at making things go boom! So much that it's illegal to own.
@gweejiahan9336 15 күн бұрын
The problem with pure Hydrogen has always been storage and transportation, its a uber small molecule that leaks through solid metal and in the process fuxks up the metal. its also super flammable which makes the requirements for storage and transportation really really hard. Hydrogen just dont make sense at small scales like as fuel for vehicles. Hydrogen makes sense for trading of renewable energies at large scales between nations that have an excess of renewables to nations without the right geological placement for renewables to be burnt in power plants, and even then they are looking at 50% of the pure hydrogen gas converted to something else like ammonia for tanker transport or underwater hydrogen air pipelines.
@budmor2182 20 күн бұрын
In terms of the lawsuit, if you bought a Mirai or Nexo 6-years ago when Hydrogen was $5/kg. And you were told that the number of stations would be spreading through the state and country. And the price of hydrogen would only go own. And now, 6-years later when your free hydrogen card has no balance left, stations are closing, and hydrogen is 500% more expensive, and you have to pay out of pocket. And the depreciation on the vehicle is huge. I think it is probably reasonable to think one has a suit against Toyota or Hyundai. What research could one have done in years past that would have predicted such an increase in the cost of hydrogen? And everyone, including the state and federal government were and are positive on hydrogen and see it as part of the solution to carbon. Buying one now (even with the 50% discount, and the $15K in fuel) or in the last couple of years is/was a questionable idea.
@dieterwolf9549 Ай бұрын
56, 256 charge point stations in USA according to google.
@CiaranMcHale Ай бұрын
The title indicates that the video will discuss how Toyota is responding to the furious customers, but that response is not discussed unto 8:30 in the video. As far as I know, in journalism the main point of an article/report is usually addressed at the very start, but Sam decided to "bury the lede" more than 80% of the way into the video.
@michaelpioconte Ай бұрын
Classic case of the saying, “You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time.”
@randycarter2001 Ай бұрын
I saw this several years ago. I noted there were several subsidies that were being thrown at HFC. So no one knew what the true cost of the fuel (or the cars) was. I knew it had to be at least on par with gas, if not more.
@user-it7lf7kk8m Ай бұрын
What subsidies do gas get? Most countries tax the pips out of it
@jeffmann2494 25 күн бұрын
I believe there are actually 50 hydrogen pumps between LA and San Francisco. What Tesla did right was to make an inexpensive charger for people to use at home, so even without charge stations people could use EV's.I've had an EV for 5 years and only used a charge station twice. Hydrogen cars don't have that, and I believe that it would be too dangerous to make home fuel pumps as hydrogen is extremely explosive. So no one can buy (or use) a hydrogen car without a fuel pump, and they are not going to spend millions on fuel pumps hoping someone will buy a hydrogen car. EV charge times have come down from over night to 20 to 30 minutes and sodium batteries might bring that down farther. As much as it is nice to have alternatives, I can't see hydrogen cars in the near future.
@ien2023 Ай бұрын
Toyota has been putting so money into this tech that they can't dig themselves out of it. There's no demands.
@Wongseifu548 Ай бұрын
The problem with Hydrogen is the same problem with gasoline you can't refuel at home and you essentially need to build stations to hold the fuel meaning you need hydrogen stations everywhere just like you need gas stations everywhere except is there is a fire now the explosion will be substantially bigger
@lcwin1 Ай бұрын
Hydrogen is more or less similar to NGV only without the hype. In fact H2 is processed from NG now. Hydrogen is extremely dangerous compared to NG or petrol. Heard of Hinderberg or Hydrogen Bom?
@dopeleracad1454 Ай бұрын
I know it was a joke but there are currently more than 160,000 EV chargers in the United States, not 2 billion.
@frankdelao4067 Ай бұрын
Exxon has or is building a hydrogen plant in Texas. The US Infrastructure bill provides funding for 9 more hydrogen plants. The plan is for these plants to be completed in 10 years, expect 12-15 years at best. Even after building these plants there must be a distribution system set up for drivers to fill up their cars.
@Brad_Fallon Ай бұрын
If everyone is making hydrogen at home as easily as turning on the kitchen sink, why do we need "Refueling Stations"?
@steveschilling5966 Ай бұрын
worst idea ever going from gasoline to hydrogen is a real step backwards.
@hanswitvliet8188 Ай бұрын
It was a chicken-or-egg situation. Some countries did take hydrogen seriously, and filling stations are part of the infrastructure, thus are permanently filled. It’s just a missed opportunity that never came true, like fusion…
@iany2448 Ай бұрын
In terms of adoption curve, hydrogen car can be compared to GM's initial attempt at electrical cars rather than Tesla. It was in California as well. It ended with GM bought back all electrical cars sold and scraped all. Good thing for Toyota is that there is really not that many units involved in case of a buy back.
@moabman6803 Ай бұрын
The Mirai is a pilot program that the public can purchase as Toyota develops the technology. It's as simple as that for now. I really can't believe people don't understand such a basic concept. Toyota has a totally different business model than gm ever has.
@markwiegard8384 Ай бұрын
Thanks for the reply. You’re right about fossil fuels used to generate electricity to split the water molecule. That said, green hydrogen will use solar panels and windmills. I think I covered that….i have two Hydrogen Hubs scheduled to launch next spring in the Midwest covering 6500 acres to start. The first project has 309MW storage that will supply DC power for two days without sunlight. We also have contacts to buy windmill overflow power especially at night. Reasonably priced otherwise they would have to dump the excess wind power. All the hydrogen fueling station issues are fixable. Like any new startups you’ll have challenges. Like electric charging stations need to expand so will H2H stations. More so for large trucks, farm equipment, and heavy equipment. fueling time is crucial because of weather, labor costs, and contract constraints that are date sensitive. Aircraft will use hydrogen because a fuel cell and hydrogen is lighter than batteries which is important for cargo and passenger weight restrictions. Will see how it plays out in the next 10 years. The US government just handed out several billion to build H2H hubs just last fall. EV’s, Hybrids, H2H, to include efficient ICE will be the shot gun approach…..each will have its application
@moabman6803 Ай бұрын
The Mirai is a pilot program that the public can purchase as Toyota develops the technology. It's as simple as that for now. I really can't believe people don't understand such a basic concept. Hydrogen tech is a real thing.
@markwiegard8384 Ай бұрын
I really not sure about this but I think Tesla will have a H2H car also called the Model H.
@johnd9031 Ай бұрын
Musk knew a reliable charging network was needed to sell EVs and built it. Sorry for those who bought the hydrogen fallacy.
@stevenhorne5089 Ай бұрын
"Your car will be ready to go". Unless it's January in Chicago.
@lesatkins42 Ай бұрын
The Toyota website in the UK said it planned to roll out several hundered hydrogen filling stations over a three year period - to the best of my knowledge it has not started yet and it should have finished at least a year ago. The Mirai hasn't been advertised in their offerings for at least two years even though they tell me I can still buy one.
@moabman6803 Ай бұрын
The Mirai is a pilot program that the public can purchase as Toyota develops the technology. It's as simple as that for now
@newfangledproductions1880 Ай бұрын
Love this take Sam. The information you've shared aided by our own research is why our next vehicle will be electric. We are amazed at the legacy auto makers inability to move in a logical direction here.
@alexandermelbaus2351 Ай бұрын
The case for hydrogen fuel cell technology is with commercial long haul trucking and mining operations. The refilling times, energy capacity and much lower weights compared to battery electric trucks make it a potentially far better alternative. There are difficulties but in all reality, successful fuel cell technology is what electric transport is going to need. Batteries will never be able to achieve the dominance that you all lust for EV's to command; Fuel cell technology break through with electric motors could deliver the winning combination of range, energy density, fast refueling, reduced weights and far cheaper electric cars. While the infrastructure for hydrogen is lacking, eventually increased charging of EV's, especially charging within the space of an hour is going to stretch the electrical system beyond it's capability. The entire grid will need massive upgrades everywhere.
@markwiegard8384 Ай бұрын
Wow, where are the bikes sold? In 2018 a patient was filed for dry hydrogen. The process bypasses compressing hydrogen. The hydrogen particles are placed on a metal hydride strip. Kinda of like a VCR cartridge. The hydrogen attaches to the strip’s magnetically. The hydrogen is released using a laser to change the metal hydride polarity. The hydrogen cartridges can be recycled after 100 plus recharges. The cartridges can be stored in very low and very high temperatures. The last I read about this process they are working on scaling to meet potential demand.
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