Regarding the "R. R." / "K" award for fantasy authors, another point of evidence would be Ursula K. LeGuin

Hearing Brandon R. R. Sanderson say "banger of a song" brings me so much joy ❤️

"There isn't really a sense of peril that would justify the grandmother's zeal." The way I understood it was that there was just a lot of *perceived* peril, or pressure, for each member of the family. The problem wasn't that there was a problem, the problem was that each member of the family *felt* like they had to fill a certain role or the world would end. The grandmother was the same way. because the prosperity of the village came from the family and the home, she felt personally responsible for not just her family but for everything, and that responsibility to maintain the "perfection" they brought to the village then was in turn placed upon the members of her family. "We have to be perfect simply because the village relies on us to be perfect." It doesn't answer everything, but it made some of the problems you mentioned here easy to accept for me.

Now we just need an episode of Dan & Brandon discussing Arcane and my life will be complete.

I am so glad the external violence never came back. It would have been such a 'hollywood' thing to do. Instead of focusing on the core real issue of dysfunctional family, it manufactures some external threat to force everyone to come together temporarily but doesn't offer any real healing or long lasting solution.

No talk about Onward? So underrated. Some of Pixar's best comedy in years and a good overall story with some great characters. Pixie biker gang will always be a win.

Dan: Encanto is a great movie. Me: Dan is inarguably correct. Dan: Mirabel's song is the most boring one in the movie. Me: DAN IS A MADMAN AND NO ONE SHOULD PAY HIM ANY HEED!

Abuela's reason for how much of a hardass she was, I thought, was because she didn't want to risk the possibility that anything could take her home from her again. She wanted the magic to be strong and the family to be strong because she wanted to be strong for the next disaster that befell her family, unaware that the next disaster to come would be her. She was just paranoid that something would take her family from her again

Yeah Disney made a bunch of toys for Isabela because they thought that little girls would love her because she's the perfect pretty princess (its all of her pre-character development too when shes a bad person because shes grappling with the need to be perfect and taking out her frustration on her sister so doing that also ignored her character arc and idolizes her in an unhealthy state which is also a can of worms), and they didn't think they'd want Luisa because of how buff she is.

I think the grandmother was really traumatised, doesn't matter her reality now is good. It's like saying to a soldier, hey there's no war anymore, why aren't you OK?

I disagree with the assertion that “Waiting on a Miracle” is boring, but that’s maybe because I’m a music guy. The very metric structure of the song - 3/4 instead of 4/4, since it’s a Colombian waltz - serves to differentiate Mirabel from the rest of the family. She sings in 4/4 in the beginning, but as soon as she says “I’m not fine,” it switches to 3/4. It’s just such a beautiful and subtle way to reinforce that she’s literally walking to the beat of her own drum, so to speak.

Lin Manuel Miranda, puertorrican, was in charge on write the songs. They went to Colombia to research the culture. It is curious that we as puertorrican have a lot in common with the colombian culture, folklore, and music. All singers were colombian artists.

One of the reasons I think it was kind of surprising (and important) that this story resonates with so many people is that the heroism and conflict in the story all come from the difficulty of getting family members to communicate their feelings. Really, Mirabel's adventure about the reality of how challenging and difficult it actually is to get people to open up, not to mention the perils it often brings to the person who is pushing for that, which is a story that I think is very universal but also isn't something I can remember seeing being tackled by Hollywood project this high profile before. Though I'm not super familiar with the genre, I feel like the way that the magical realism elements were used in the movie did a good job of highlighting and externalizing those challenges which are usually very internal in a language that is familiar for mainstream movies (e.g. Mirabel traveling through Bruno's room to find a deep dark family secret). Hopefully we get more high profile Disney, etc., stuff that continues to celebrate these kinds of emotional adventures!

i feel like no one would want the K award once you get 3 of them

I thought it was going to be so satisfying when Brandon signed his last manuscript, only to have a new stack plopped right in front of him!

The peril that exists is the peril that could exist because someone who is hurt will see the chance that it will happen again. Others may not see the threat of the tragedy that may come, or may not exist but being hit by my brother will still make me flinch when he is simply raising his hand to adjust his cap.

I would listen to these shows just for the book recommendations. Also, glad to hear Sanderson enjoys reading soft fantasy. Every sub genre has its place.

I'm surprised they didn't bring up Mirabel's parents who aside from not noticing Mirabel wasn't in the picture, were really great parents! It was nice to see a health parent/ child relationship I am however pretty dang salty that Bruno didn't get an apology and when he sings his part it's him apologizing. I feel that could have been worked out a bit better . I thought the story was pretty clear. ..Abuela never dealt with her trauma and had to raise 3 kids as a single parent and make sure their village stayed safe from invaders. It led to her becoming obsessed and losing sight of what was important. I thought the theme of generational trauma was clear. For Isabella, they never say why she needs to get married, but Abuela mentions a couple of times the match would "be so good for the encanto" basically pressure to have kids so they got more gifts. And for Luisa, sometimes just talking things out helps. And if you tell people how you're really feeling, maybe they didn't realize they were putting so much pressure on you and can realize they were relying too much on her. (As the entire town was relying too much on everyones gifts.) I also think the movies without the characters singing don't do as well. Can't play it on repeat if there are no songs! (Soundtrack yes, but you know what I mean.) I think Raya didn't sit as well for me because they didn't portray South East Asian culture as well as they should have. Definitely missed the mark on that one. 😬

K. for women award also pans out also with Ursula K. Le Guin

This may be the vast difference between people who had had a war come into their home territory in the memory of still-living persons, and these whose last experience (as a country) of a vast local military conflict has been over 100 years ago. From the point of view of timing, Abuela -> Triplets -> Grandchildren, once you account for differences of ages etc, have a very similar dynamic to families in Central/Eastern Europe in which grandparents were born in mid-1920s, parents were born during or soon after WWII and the youngest generation was born in 60's-70's. And guess what. By mid-1990's, these grandmas, babcie, babushki etc were still obsessively buying too much sugar, flour and groats, because the lack of certain staples was terrifying. They kept stores of fabrics, were unable to let go of a variety of supplies and were ALWAYS prepared with miles of shelves of homemade preserves. Not because it is a nice thing, to have jam or juice or jelly. Because they were fearful of the moment at which the shelves turn out to be empty. And everyone reacts differently. Alma had all the miraculous wonder of plenty around her, but she was fearful of losing the stability of the family she had, with her own hands, carried out of the carnage. She invested everything into the survival of Her Own People. Not to mention becoming a semi-official leader of the community, by total accident. The fact that she wasn't a twitching mess by the time she turned 50 is a miracle by itself. And yes, she did manage to trickle all that neurosis down to her kids and grandkids. And she should not have done that. But if her top priority, of all things, was keeping everyone alive - and the town additionally MADE HER an authority figure! - she could be excused for not really noticing the very negative side effects of her actions. Being surprised by someone unable to let go "because the war was long ago and far away" is uncomfortably close to expecting a war veteran to magically get better and smile, smile, because nobody is shooting anymore.

I so agree that having three different compelling characters to identify with is a big part of why the movie is so successful, but also THE reason they are all suffering (the family’s systematic perfectionism) is a major issue in our society nowadays. Adults and children alike suffer from the pressure of being “your best self” (whatever that means) in order to feel like you have value.

To me, the pressure stemmed from the idea that the village was only amazing to live in because they depended on the Madrigals. So they had to keep their magic because without it their paradise would crumble. The ending was so impactful because the villagers came together to show they understood the sacrifice the family had been making all those years, and with or without magic things would be fine.

"...really boring like Luca" me: What? "...but not all the way down with Ratatouille" me: WHAT?!

As a Colombian this means so much to me. Not surprisingly, Encanto quickly became one of the influences I know will for sure show up in my writing. It's just executed so well

Can't wait for the next Stormlight novel by Brandon R.R. Sanderson

I am so sorry for whatever accident resulted in your tragic scarring, Dan! Hope you recover soon.

It made me smile to hear Brandon describe a song as a "Banger"

Can't believe this Ratatouille slander 😤😂

But its not abusive Grandma try to be less abusive. It's traumatized Grandma, understand that the magic was there for the family, not the family for the magic. It's okay, you are safe. Enjoy the gifts you have given. You aren't going to lose everyone again unless you push them away. You're grandchildren don't have to be worthy of the magic. You're family just needs to stay whole.

Big fan of the "R.R." award!

In 6 months, I hope somebody makes a supercut of Dan’s Food Heist Stories.

As someone that grew up in a small town in Latin America, magic realism is part of the culture I grew up with more than just a literary genre. Growing up, I believed and expected magic elements around me. I grew up with stories of shapeshifters that came out at night, death spirits that came to torment or pay favors to the living much like a hundred years of solitude, and a grandmother with clairvoyant powers that foretold and announced the death of her brother before everyone knew that he was dead. I can tell that all families had similar stories to share growing up. These elements are not seemed as surprising, but an accepted part of life. I think A hundred years of solitude and The house of the spirits are great novels that did not intend to be "magic realism" but rather depict life in rural Latin America, so I think that is why I do not consider Marquez or Allender fantasy writers. Interestingly, when Amaranta Ursula in A hundred Years, and Aura in the House of the spirits, go to university and become more educated, the "fantastic" elements of the novels decrease/stop.

I accidentally launched this from my notifications while I was walking my dog, to think I had been listening for 25min totally unaware thst Dan decided to change his look to the Danny Devito penguin look... The absolute shock!

The reason Isabella had to marry was just to continue the line. More so for a new generation of Madrigal’s then anything else.z

Baby formulas are actually very expensive for the size of the object. It's pretty easy to grab a formula worth $20 and put in your purse or something.

I don't know if Encanto has no character archetypes or common plot points. I mean I feel like Mirabel is a twist on the whole 'Main character is an outcast because they have a power no one understands but they eventually prove that that power makes them useful' except this time its inverted because everyone else has a power but she doesn't but she still proves that she can be useful.

I like Brandon R. R. Sanderson he's my favorite author

You underestimate how much lives in your memory the fear of running away from your home (referring to Abuela)

i saw a theory that said that the madrigals got powers that would be useful in case the violence did cross the mountains (dolores could hear the attack from far away, isabella and antonio would lead a sort of fauna and flora guerilla attack, camillo would serve for espionage, etc etc) and i thought that was a really cool theory. Like you got these gifts to protect yourselves and now that you dont need to you start to wonder why you have them at all.

I love these "i have to sign thousands of coppies" streams. I love Brandon´s treatment of his fans. Im just getting back to fantasy after many years of basicaly not reading much. He treats his fans like his equals IMHO, not some people that bother him, which others, as we all know, do. I love how he explains his writing process, his thoughts etc. I love his writing lessons too. Im no way interested in writing, but when he explained the thing about promise and fulfillment in a story i was like "huh, that never occured to me" 🙂 I only read Warbreaker, but Im happy I found him and that with his speed of writing it´ll take me years to catch up (english is not my 1st language but Czech translations sucks so ... all books in english 🙂)

TWO animation related episodes in a row?! Are you specifically catering to me now? 🎨

Working theory for me is that the magic of the house is powered by the love of the family; the magic fractured when the matriarch asked He Who Shall Not Be Talked About to prophesize Mirabel's future. HWSNBTA fearing to make another prediction of misfortune set off a self fulfilling prophecy; became ostracized, and the house didn't have enough magic to grant a super-power. Luisa and Isabella feeling they were forced into unwanted roles, and Mirabel's whole plot arc made things worse. When everyone reconciled whatever spark of magic remained was re-ignited because the family's love fixed everything.

I am Colombian and my view of what magic realism is is that the magic is not super overt. So in encanto there is a lot of that, so that is why I would not put it in magic realism but I could be wrong

As a former target employee, target loss prevention is not repeling from the ceiling. More like sitting in am office watching cameras. However, they do follow cases like that often. People have to steal a certain dollar amount to be charged, so loss prevention team members will left theft happen to wait until they go over the dollar amount they need.

The vote is on! I love the chance of getting back to old episodes

One of my favorite authors wearing a shirt from one of my favorite games, talking about one of my new favorite Disney/Pixar movies 👌🏼😌

I think honestly the meme-ability of the songs and plot is why Encanto exploded so much (specifically why We Don't Talk About Bruno is so big). ... also I can't believe you guys literally didn't take about Bruno 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽

It seemed to me that the magic that had originally been the great blessing and saved the family was corrupted as the grandmother became obsessed with the magic and lost sight of the people. It seemed like the ending would have been so much more powerful if Mirabel and Abuela had a cathartic moment of realization, causing everyone's powers to go away, but restoring the love and unity and understanding that is actually so much more valuable. Having the characters lose their powers and then subvert audience expectations by rejoicing in song because of their restored family relationship would have been so powerful. Maybe the movie could end with a shot of the candle in the window, suggesting that the family's real magic is still burning bright.

This is currently my favourite podcast I listen to

Hey Brandon and Dan. Baby Formula is indeed very valuable. Some sort of chemical component of it is used in the making of Meth. Also, you guys are so funny.

Clever Dan bringing up baby formula heist on the episode he has baby face going on.

My family is half Colombian, and we mostly enjoyed the movie, but not as much the music. We all loved the song about the unspeakable Bruno, because it sounded the most correct in its musical style in reference to the cultural setting. The movie for us felt more like Colombia was the backdrop of a story that could have been set anywhere. I am happy to have learned more about the fantastical realism angle, which I had previously not considered.

I just watched this movie last Saturday, and it was just delightful, and We Don't Talk About Bruno will be stuck in my head for the rest of my natural life and I'm OK with that, I've made my peace with it.

I watched The Dark Cauldron for the first time a few months ago, all I knew about it was that it was a notorious flop so morbid curiosity was one of my motivators. I did _not_ know that it was based on a fantasy novel but I could tell while watching that it was clearly an adaption of something rather than an 'original' story, it was just so very odd in its storytelling. But knowing now that it was based on an established fantasy series it set me wondering just how Brandon (and/or his peers/friends) would pitch a Disney animated feature and how would they try to avoid the issues in TDC's adapted nature. Come on Brandon, pitch us a Disney movie with princesses and talking animals, the whole shebang.

I had to read 100 years of soletud for high school you were lucky

I came to hear a conversation about a cartoon and unexpectedly got a Coen Brothers discussion as well. I agree with Dan 100%--O Brother, Where Art Thou?, No Country for Old Men, and Fargo are the three best.

I wanted to know what Brandon thought of the magic coming back at the end because I felt that the ending would have been stronger if it hadn't. I thought the whole point of the song while they rebuilt the house was that the gifts are not the end so be all, but coming together as a family and as a community, they can thrive without the magic and I felt that message was immediately undermined when the magic returned.

Totally miss the point that the grandmother went through actual trauma, so Mirabel accepting her for her faults is actually beautiful rather than saying she was just an a hole like everyone else seems to want to do.

As a latinoamerican my self I can only agree that they are different fantasy and magic realism. Maybe not the difference as you said. Magic realism is in my opinion a simple novel with elements that are out of the ordinary that can be explained by the consumption of a mushroom or psicosomátic alucinations. Fantasy let's you fly away from reality.

Im a Brazilian, once a prolific country in magical realism, almost mandatory until the 80s, And I see in the new generations a lot of people who dont know what it is.

I read Hundred years of solitude once... and was depressed for 2 weeks after.

Will on the subject of "not being in danger" that's the thing about generational trauma, it outlasts the actual danger. Grandma didn't need to push everyone so hard anymore and they weren't in danger but she can't see that and is taring them apart on account of it

The battle on the other side of the mountain will be resolved in the second movie: encan2. Sorry, i'll see myself out

Brandon say Hi. It'll make my life.

I wonder the influence the Millennial generation is having on Encanto's explosion. Obviously the target audience does love it for the songs and the characters, but I don't expect they understand the underlying concepts. Where the Millennials absolutely see and recognize what's going on AND relate to it.

I totally missed Encanto being magical realism, because it looks like a fantasy movie in terms of aesthetic.

I think the success of Encanto comes from that most people feel like the black sheep of the family but for very different reasons. I for one identify with Bruno quite a bit because I can be a little autistic, and say the uncomfortable truths that probably shouldn’t be said exactly when they should not be said. I’ve always had the sense that I would become the estranged sibling that would lose his way from the family for one reason or another. It hasn’t happened yet, but I get this feeling that the Bruno character would probably mean a lot more to me in a dark future that feels more likely than not. It doesn’t even have to be a traumatic thing that happens. Even just drifting apart because we’d naturally grow less interested in being around each other as a family. I could tell that my sister would identify with the strong girl that thinks she needs to hold the family together. At the end of the day the family is mostly universal, and there are different architects that every family has some of. That horoscope nature of it matched with the sorts of problems relevant to most all families makes Encanto a far more immediately relatable story than a fish person’s coming out story, or a jazz musician’s midlife crisis.

About the baby formula - they sell them overseas to maybe China or something? Here in Australia there is even a limit on how many you can buy at once as there have been shortages when people buy them in bulk to send overseas.

Dos oruguitas is a gorgeous song

How do you feel about the Coco writer being the showrunner on Narnia? (the netflix adaptation)

I grew up in a small town in Canada. There was a woman who was caught in the local grocery store stealing baby formula. It was because she couldn't afford it, so the owner of the store gave her a years supply for free

Any one else think it was strange that Dolores knew Bruno was living in the walls but didn’t tell anyone? She also seemed to be the family member with the least expected of her?

Nice Zelda shirt Brandon

I've been slowly getting back into reading and my co worker reccomend Steel heart and it is one of the best books I've read in tge past few years

Responding to a couple of points: When it comes to literary types insisting that something can't be genre fiction because they like it, my pet example is The Time Traveler's Wife, which took me a couple of years to find a copy of because I kept looking for it in the Science Fiction section - where else would you shelve the story of a man who, due to a genetic mutation, spontaneously travels in time, which explores the practical implications (like having to go for tooth extractions rather than fillings) while also presenting his out-of-order courtship and relationship with his (eventual) wife? But, no, it's shelved under "General Fiction" because, apparently, it's not actually Science Fiction... Back to Encanto: Abuela does apparently have a power - and she definitely has a magic door. Her power is (or is represented by) the candle, as shown on her glowy door. And it turns out that Mirabel also has a power (and, yes, she's clearly intended as Abuela's eventual replacement) - except her power is the family, so her "room" is the entire house (which is presumably why her door fizzled when she was a child) - the entire family lives in Mirabel's "room".

Awesome episode, you guys are hilarious! Speaking of marvel movies.... when do we get a spider man no way home episode!!!! 😂

I'm sorry to say that - for people in the know - when significant amounts of baby formula are involved in a heist, this typically indicates meth production.

We have SS tier in most contexts. In fantasy, it is the RR tier.

AAH, Dan shaved!

While I agree about the origins of Magical Realism, I have found many different cultures have embraced the genre. A good example of a good Magical Realism movie is Big Fish from Daniel Wallace's novel, Big Fish: A Novel of Mythic Proportions. Which is a Tim Burton film. But a more specific example of other cultures using the genre is Moonlight on the Avenue of Faith by Gina B. Nahai. The author is Iranian.

Baby formula is super expensive. So much so that at many stores, it, along with cigarettes and non-prescription drugs that can be used to make meth, is often kept under lock and key.

I don't think Brandon should be involved in awarding R's, because he definitely deserves two of them but there's no way he'd award even one to himself. That being said, I'd like to nominate Joe Abercrombie for an R as well.

I realised how well beard suits Dan, maybe he should grow it Pat Rothuss style and see if it looks even better))

Great episode! I think the closest the movie comes to explaining the family's magical system is in the lyrics of "Dos Orguitas"--the Spanish-language song they play during the emotionally climactic flashback montage. It tells the story of two caterpillars who have to go through the pains of metamorphosis. "And so afraid of change / In a world that never stops changing / So let the walls come down / The world will never stop changing." In other words, it was necessary for the house to crumble and collapse for the miracle to be reborn and continue.

Another video out there stated that Encanto was written first and then the Colombian setting added later.

I couldn't disagree more about Luisa. She helps Luisa with her anxiety by talking to her about it and helping Luisa refocus it not on her responsibilities and burdens but on her doing the things for her sisters that they can't do for themselves or that she can do better. Her song changes from anxious to triumphant with her lines about helping her sisters. That's what I hear anyway.

Adoooonalsiiiiium

39:20 Reall? that is the only theory I have heard, SCB has a good summary of it

personally, Ive thought for a while now that to much of Pixar is focusing on death and dark topics, rather than sparking emotion through feelings of family like with the incredibly, or the joy of playing with your toys like with toy story, or the fear of your child being in danger like with finding nemo. lots of pixar movies make you sad, but there also kid friendly, and make you feel emotions though good writing, rather than relaying on death. Luca didn't meet pixars story telling quality, but was at least, a step away from less kid friendly movies like soul. Soul is good in its own way, but is definitely not a good family movie.

Ratatouille is the single greatest Disney mover ever made.

My 1 year old LOVES Luca, the Good Dinosaur, and My Neighbor Totoro. It takes a few tries for him to see another show, but I'm so tired of the above movies.😩

Oh, talking Coen Brothers are we? Miller's Crossing is the peak for me. Also anti-brandon ending is exactly what I thought of Encanto. I did not like that the inciting incident (the main girl not getting a power) did not receive a satisfactory pay off, and I even said to my sister "they should have brought Brandon Sanderson in to tighten up the script".

Baby formula on the Chinese black market goes for big money. Australia had a problem with formula being bought in bulk and being shipped off shore…now we have purchase limits.

Dan R. R. Wells actually sounds great lol

Brandon, thank you for raising the issue of the abuse that Bruno and Mirabel were subject to and thank you both for discussing it so thoughtfully. This is the sticking point for me and why I can't see Encanto as a good movie. It's very popular with my 6 and 3 year old right now, especially We Don't Talk About Bruno. At times I'm concerned they don't understand the implications of that song and will think it's OK to treat people the way Bruno and Mirabel were treated. At least it's giving me an opportunity to talk to them about this issue and help them understand it's not acceptable.

I think what he meant to say was: we don't talk about Ben, No, No, No.

3 months later there's a hardcore formula shortage, and this food heist doesn't seem so strange anymore! ... Actually it didn't seem so strange at the time. Formula is ridiculously expensive.

It's pretty common for baby formula to be added to street drugs

Awkwafina as Syl in the Stormlight adaptation confirmed?

Dos oruguitas is a great song. They should’ve nominated both imo.